90% of 2D games are better than 90% of 3D games. 2D games focus on the essential nature of video games, 3D games focus on wowing you with pointless technical presentation garbage that diminishes the amount of thought that goes into the underlying game at the moment of design. 3D was the beginning of the end for video games, as proven by its reaching of its logical conclusion in the boring "hyper realistic" movie games that we see now.

But don't get me wrong, I am not saying 3D games can't ever be good under any circumstances. What I'm saying is most aren't because they don't focus on being games first and foremost, since they're mostly developed by technophiles with no real love for games, only technology and creating tech show off pieces that they decide to slap some half-assed gameplay onto to sell as games.

You can't make me mad, I prefer 2D as well.

The bigger problem with 3D games is that you spend more time walking between objectives than you do anything else.

"Technophiles create slop. Limitations create art." - OP

>>11879482 (OP)
3D is well suited to racing games, flight sims, first person shooters, and dodging simulators. It has little to no benefit for traditional rpgs or strategy games, and has no business whatsoever being in shmups, beat em ups, run and guns, fighting games, platformers, or point and click adventures. Agree that 3D ruined the big devs because it jumpstarted the trend of putting gameplay in the backseat to tedious cinematics and verbose lore dumps but all of that aside, 3D is simply aesthetically inferior to 2D and every 3D game made prior to 2005 or so looks as ugly and dated as any Atari 2600 game.

>>11879735
There are lots of great 3D platformers

>>11879482 (OP)
in terms of being generally well-crated and playable, yeah 2D might win out overall, but like you said it depends on the execution
certain genres are essentially tied to being 3D, like first or third-person shooters, third-person action and all the others the Anon above me listed
the biggest hurdle with 3D is the camera, most evident in 3D platformers which have seemingly never found an ideal solution to the problem. another is that it's much easier to run past enemies
at the same time the added bonus of having an entire extra dimension adds so much to level design, encounter design and combat
games like Portal, SotC, RE4 or Blood just couldn't work in 2D and still be as good as they are. I can't think of a 2D game with an equivalent of the water hall for example, in terms of a stellar encounter
idk this post is kind of a mess

I'm not trying to meme you guys, but I genuinely think that some people's brains aren't fit to play 3D games. I have observed a reoccurring phenomenon where some types of people cannot properly map out 3D digital (abstract) spaces in their mind as a cognitive function, and therefore respond to 3D games with "I'm confused" and "I don't know where to go" and other such things, because it's a mentally exhausting challenge for them. Not being able to perceive 3D spaces doesn't necessarily mean you're stupid, but it's an indicator on how the brain responds to visual-spatial awareness. If you frequently feel fatigue, confusion, malaise, or suffer from motion sickness while playing 3D games, you probably fit this criteria to a varying degree.

>>11879482 (OP)
Don't worry just wait for the new Virtua Fighter. It has to save 3D yet again.

>>11879482 (OP)
maybe you should actually start playing the good 3D games that still come out instead or cinematic slop and then complain about it. Nobody is forcing you to play new God of War or Hellsblade slop

>>11879482 (OP)
we get it you love bing bing wahoo where you just run from left to right and having to think too much makes your brain hurt

>>11879482 (OP)
>90% of 2D games are better than 90% of 3D games. 2D games focus on the essential nature of video games, 3D games focus on wowing you with pointless technical presentation garbage that diminishes the amount of thought that goes into the underlying game at the moment of design. 3D was the beginning of the end for video games, as proven by its reaching of its logical conclusion in the boring "hyper realistic" movie games that we see now.
>But don't get me wrong, I am not saying 3D games can't ever be good under any circumstances. What I'm saying is most aren't because they don't focus on being games first and foremost, since they're mostly developed by technophiles with no real love for games, only technology and creating tech show off pieces that they decide to slap some half-assed gameplay onto to sell as games.
t. anon who played Sonic 06 and suffers from black and white thinking

>>11879482 (OP)

There were a lot of 2D slop as well, especially in late 4th gen. 3D was a tech leap but also the new ground for developers to try different stuff.

>>11879482 (OP)
That's kind of like saying that talkies were the beginning of the end for cinema. Sure, the medium might have become less pure, but it has also achieved so much more than was possible before

>>11879897
My cognition is very non-normative, with total aphantasia being one of my several deficits. Personally, I experience none of what you're describing when playing 3D games. While it's true that I'm unable to visually map out spaces, I'm still able to create "relational" maps. I automatically memorize the way spaces and the objects in them relate to each other. This knowledge takes a form very similar to that of abstract facts (i.e., "my toothbrush is in the cup to the right of the bathroom faucet" is stored the same way in my brain as "the Heisei era ended in 2019"). I'm not certain, but I imagine this is simillar to the process blind people use in order to navigate their homes. I can't visualize what my house looks like, but I know that if I were to walk outside of my bedroom, I'd see the living room and kitchen to my right, the bathroom to my left, and my Mom's room dead ahead. This doesn't just work for general, "big picture" spaces, either. I could definitely give you a (probably somewhat clumsy) eyes closed tour of my entire home, down to relatively fine details such as where the laundry detergent is kept, or which box in my closet holds my PlayStation games.

This kind of relational awareness works just as well in virtual spaces. I could probably walk you through the entirety of Resident Evil from memory. If some people truly are cognitively incapable of playing 3D games, aphantasia alone doesn’t fully explain it.

>>11880046
>I can't visualize what my house looks like
It's amazing how different people can be

>>11879482 (OP)
>" the essential nature "
According to whom?

disregarded the rest of your post, as it supplants fact with opinion

>>11879983
Naw. He's right. Most 2D games are actually games. Way too many 3D "games" are really an experience and not really a game.

>>11879735
Yet another brainlet filtered by Mario 64

>>11879482 (OP)
3D games make me vomit on a physiological level.

>>11880316
3D games make me vomit on a spiritual level.

>>11879897
luddite 2d boomers btfo

>>11880310
It's a downgrade from SMB3 and I'm sorry to hear that your childhood was so deprived that you had nothing better to play than an N64.

I understand where OP is coming from but I don't think the dichotomy between gameplay and wow-ism is purely a question of 2D vs 3D.
If you look at the history of video games there is a gradual decrease in required skill level through the years and that started before 3D became the norm. It was always going to happen regardless of 3D. It's what happens when the medium becomes more and more mainstream.
In fact, if you look at GBA 2D action games, you'll notice that they usually aren't that different from the 3D console games of the era in terms of design mentality and are far from what (You) think about when you think of "2D gameplay."

>>11879482 (OP)
It's harder to fuck up a 2D game because there is less to account for. Literally an entire dimension you don't have to worry about.

>>11880401
Where's all them good 1D games

>>11880401
>It's harder to fuck up a 2D game
Tell that to the Europeans.

>>11880402
There's a sweet spot in dimensionality.

I never said that 2D is superior. Rather it has a higher floor and lower ceiling. 3D IMO has a lower floor & higher ceiling.

>>11880046
I genuinely don't know how people like you live day-to-day
>>11880380
Projection

Unrelatedly, how come there are no Ghibli games? 2D or otherwise

>>11879482 (OP)
Making 3D games good is harder, so fewer of them are good.

>>11880460
Jade Cocoon

>>11879735
>or point and click adventures
3d point and clicks never really got a fair shake. when the genre was still in its heyday the tech either wasn't there, devs were too incompetent to deliver the obvious(mouse look navigation + with a free cursor inspect mode) or retarded suits thought aping tombraider was the next big thing. past that adventure games got replaced by non interactive walking sims. the interaction system in amnesia/penumbra is great, absolutely could build worthwhile adventure games out of that if there were any studios still left to do it.

>>11879735
>3D is simply aesthetically inferior to 2D
you dont even believe this

>>11879482 (OP)
i would agree with you if we were talking about modern games. but retro 3D games are absolutely soul

>>11879735
>3D has no business whatsoever being in (...) beat em ups

Except one of the BEST BEAT EM UP OF ALL TIME is 3D

>>11880760
Punisher was better

>>11880670
>you dont even believe this
Sure I do. What looks better today, Soul Calibur or Garou: Mark of the Wolves? It wasn't until the 2010s that 3D graphics really started to look good but even at their best they lack the hand-crafted quality of raster graphics which is what makes 2D pop.

>>11881186
>It wasn't until the 2010s that 3D graphics really started to look good
Bullshit. Mega Man Legends and cel-shaded Dreamcast games will always look better than brown and bloom slop from 2013.

>>11880760
Compared to Streets of Rage II, The Punisher, Aliens vs. Predator, or D&D: Shadows Over Mystara it's mediocre. Everyone remembers it because it was the first or one of the first 3D beat 'em ups and while it's not a bad game per se it's pretty unremarkable otherwise.

>>11879687
This so much, just compare 2d Zelda to 3d Zelda

>>11881252
>Cell Shading
Lipstick on a pig.
>Man Legends
Looks like a dog's breakfast compared to something like Dark Souls, but the more cartoonish early 3D games do hold up better than the ones that went for realism.

Oh shit /v/ has deployed one of their strongest shitposters it seems

>>11881186
What looks better, Valkyrie Profile 2 or Ultima 1?

>>11881359
What looks better: your mom (3D) or my waifu (2D)?

>>11881570
Nta, but anon's mom (3D)

>>11879482 (OP)
I think the exact same thing but I also consider the best of the 3D games to be overhemlingly superior to the best 2D games out there.
3D is simply harder to execute well but the potential is so much greater than 2D, consequently 2D games overall go from comfortable mids to very good, whereas 3D games go from absolute turd to absolutely genius. Devs just suffer from skill issue and 2D has a lower barrier of entry.
To take an obvious example, mario 64 absolutely obliterates even the best 2D mario. But then you look at every single one of its 3D followups, Odyssey or even Mario galaxy, and you can observe that all of them are inferior to all 2D marios. Same goes for Legend Of Zelda games, Ocarina of Time is miles ahead of any of it's 2D predecessors, same for majoras mask, but all other 3D zeldas have been insanely inferior to every 2D zelda.
2D has a natural limit in possibilities it cannot possibly overcome since these limits define it's category. 3D has an innate superiority in potential, but it fails to do often times because of the increased difficulty.

>>11881667
What's your age?

>>11879482 (OP)
your opinion is shit and sounds like someone who gets motion sickness when the realize you can move on a z axis.

praise the sun

>>11881685
I'm 32.
Recent 2d games have also lowkey been disappointing me lately, especially the platformers
It's reached a point where I'm basically convinced the genre has creatively bankrupted itself.
Coming from the first DKC trilogy DKCTF was a huge disappointment, Pizza Tower is a redditor's take on Warioland, the newer Raymans were absolute dogshit, mario wonder was a fucking joke,...
We've hit a dead end, 2d platforming is a solved problem.

>>11881667
>mario 64 absolutely obliterates even the best 2D mario
>Same goes for Legend Of Zelda games, Ocarina of Time is miles ahead of any of it's 2D predecessors, same for majoras mask
This couldn't be more wrong.

>>11881979
Those are not good representatives of modern platformers. DKCTF is okay though.

>>11880310
No one was filtered by the easiest Mario until that date

>>11881979
You're a grown man playing games for kids you already played as a kid.

I love Ape Escape

>>11879854
To expand on your point, consider gallery shooters.
The best gallery shooter will be worse than the majority of modern slop first person shooters.

>>11879482 (OP)
I stopped playing games for 15 years around the 2005 mark because the whole industry fell off so bad

>>11881667
Mostly correct

What happens with a lot of art forms or new scenes is that they are started by smart and creative people who live the life
They take the world by storm
Inferior pretenders think 'I enjoy CONSUMING xyz, and the creators are rich and famous, so I will start to CREATE XYZ and then I shall be rich and famous too'
They think this without having a creative bone in their body or having any real ambition to do it or drive to push through
It's just a childlike ego fantasy, and they will talk about it with a glazed look on their face as they imagine having a private jet and being cool with sunglasses
They think 'I wish I had tons of money without having to go to work or do anything for it'
If you really try to have a real conversation about creative work or push them to collaborate they will simply shut down mentally or panic, or try to escape the situation
They have nothing
They pollute the scene

Al Pacino became a great Hollywood actor because he lived the life - He did theatre for years, he did Shakespeare, and he used to sleep on the stage of a theatre he worked at
A consumer of his work think 'I want to be a rich actor in Hollywood movies, yeah!' despite having never even been good enough for a school play. They will watch Scarface and be unable to separate the actor and the actor
It's the same for music and being in a band
Art, painting etc
Business attracts fantasist pretenders who think getting rich will be easy
The game industry is the same
Think of someone who made games in the 90s
Japanese and American computer programmers who live the life
Look at the consumer of the material, who wear T shirts with those guys creations on them
'I want to make a game!!!'

For every 1 guy who lives the life there are 100 pretenders in all creative disciplines or worthwhile endeavors

>>11883904
You're supposed to press the period key at the end of sentences, anon, not the enter key.

>>11883904
>the actor and the actor
The actor and the character

Anyway
Look at what was laying around the tables back in those times
I'm an artist, with a degree in Illustration
Let me tell you
Art skills have been fully removed from the national curriculum in the UK and it's the same in the USA, deleted
All the way from the first year to degree, it's all gone and they just pretend to offer it

Back in the day you go down the art route in the mainstream UK education system and learn different mediums, charcoal, paint, sketching etc
Life models, perspective, the works
Now you have to teach yourself and that is the only option
Guess how many nobody pretenders waddle around pretending they want to draw? But show them a real book, an old one with the hard exercises in it from 1940
They aren't interested
They are taking a degree in drawing and they can barely do anything
This has been going on for so long that the university tutors don't know the real skills, and couldn't show you the proper way even if they wanted to

And art skills are fundamental to video game development
This is one of the reasons why there is such a large portion of slop on the table
How big is the dev team? 100 guys? 200 guys?
For every 1 guy who lives the life there are 100 pretenders
How many guys are the real deal in a modern dev team?

>>11879897
You're probably not wrong. My mom used to play SNES with me all the time, but once I got an N64 she kept "getting lost" and eventually dropped vidya all together.