You can't just slap 2D Mario's momentum and physics into a 3D game with no care how it actually functions. 2D Mario's momentum and physics work in that 2D environment where you always have a perfect view and perspective of the action; it's significantly worse in a 3D environment where you are constantly fighting the camera and there are fundamental limitations to perspective and depth perception.

The movement doesn't even really work with actual levels, because they are no longer designed with a specific moveset in mind; there is no 'flow' to the levels as a result, just a set of disjointed jumps, which is why it allows you to just skip over huge parts of the level. And the awkward dial-a-combos and jumping three times before you get a high jump is just extra abstraction bullshit that further separates you from the game.

Seeing a platformer propped up as one of the greatest games of all time purely because it was one of the first 3D platformers and had innovative movement is asinine. There are so many other important elements to a platformer, like level design, hazard design, enemy design, boss design, camera, atmosphere, artstyle, etc. all of which are mediocre to poor in Mario 64. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of time-wasting bloat in requiring you to complete each level 7 times because it keeps booting you out after every star.

Filtred casual

Never forget most speedrunned game of all time

thread hidden

Miyamoto even admitted that all the levels and designs were just hastily thrown together last minute.

The only "people" I see care about Super Mario 64 are people obsessed with speedrunning shit, they just love retarded jank and see Mario 64 as more of an autistic toolbox than an actual videogame.

>>11879694
literally one post and the speedrun fags are already here.

>>11879680 (OP)
The GOAT platformer. They got it right on their first try and still, it's unmatched.

>>11879707
Spending so much time on the movement and physics paid off more than they could've ever anticipated. There's been an active modding scene for the game for over a decade, despite zero support from the developers for such a scene.

>>11879707
>The only "people" I see care about Super Mario 64 are people obsessed with speedrunning shit, they just love retarded jank and see Mario 64 as more of an autistic toolbox than an actual videogame.
this is me. I compare it to doom in that everyone uses it as a modding base and can sink a stupid amount of hours into all the romhacks
basically you're saying doom is shit because of sandy levels

>>11879707
>Ugh. How dare they enjoy their games wrong
Give me one reason why speed running is bad without whining about trannies or isn't just whining about them playing the game 'wrong'

>shits up /v/
>now shits up /vr/
>>>/v/715835886

>>11879747
Playing and mastering a game for speed is one thing. Abusing bugs and jank and frame-perfect inputs to try to break the game and bypass entire stages is just a dick-measuring contest for who is more of an autistic shut-in; the point of the game has looooong gone over your head by that point.

Zoomers for some reason are fucking obsessed with speedrunning ecelebs, and by extension, Mario 64. A very sizable chunk of these Mario 64 "fans" you see online a) weren't even alive when it released and b) have never even beat the fucking game.

i honestly never finished this one, would always get stuck on certain levels/get bored. but one thing i will say is its a fun game to explore and has a good ambience. even back when the game came out i found a lot of levels dreamlike/ eery/ scary/ calming. idk what it is but i get why zoomers make such stupid content about this game. i even remember asking my buddy if he got a weird feeling on that one level with the water level you raise up and down. weirded me out enough i even vocalized it to my friend. i do not play a lot of mario games but i wouldnt be surprised if this is the one with the darkest atmosphere in it. intentional or not.

Another shit thread about nothing

All Nintendo games are overrated, except for F-Zero

>>11879694
>most speedrunned game of all time
This just means it has troon appeal.

>>11881087
Not everything is about trannys, faggot

>>11881054
The empty castle is unsettling. I remember it creeping me out as a kid.

>>11879707
In all seriousness they prioritized that work flow perfectly. What use is a game that feels bad to play? You don't think they were thinking of ways to take advantage of the system they designed while they were creating it? Release dates and timelines were super important back in that day. The competition was really close and the pressure was high. They have since backed out of that mindset and no longer push unfinished games through. Despite this, all projects have a finite amount of resources and prioritization of those resources is a practical reality. I don't think your argument is legitimate simply because nobody would know those levels were "hastily thrown together last minute" until like almost three decades later, especially if Miyamoto didn't say anything about it.

>>11881098
Of course not, but speedrunning definitely is.

>>11879772
>i don't like what you like, therefore it's stupid
>you have to be a certain age to be a "fan"
NTA, but I hope you know speedrunners pushing SM64 to the limit and zoomers liking it is the least of your problems.

>>11881054
>the darkest atmosphere in it. intentional or not
>>11881101
>The empty castle is unsettling
Heavy use of masonic symbolism in SM64.

I genuinely don't get how anyone who's at least somewhat into platformers could think that SM64 is outright bad

I really dislike SM64 as well. The art direction is inexistant, it feels like they took stock textures and randomly used them as is with no effort or cohesion . I don't think the movement is fun either, SMB3 is great because it's simple yet with its simplicity there is still a high skill ceiling. Instead 64 has too many moves which just aren't fun to pull off.

>>11879680 (OP)
>Super Mario 64 was a really bad game

>>11881127
>it feels like they took stock textures and randomly used them as is with no effort or cohesion
They literally did do that. Nintendo is pretty well known for their laziness.

>>11879680 (OP)
It's a perfectly fine and fun game.

>>11879772
>You aren't allowed to enjoy messing around with glitches!
Why do you weirdos always whine about glitches specifically? Even if we ignore that there are ALWAYS glitch-less versions, it's just so silly.

>>11879680 (OP)
I never finished it. Always just feels like a chore searching for stupid bullshit in barebones levels. It's clear they ran out of ideas quick, as they just make you do the same shitty levels over and over.

>>11881124
Platformers are one of my favorite genres, and I've probably beat over 100 of them; Mario 64 is one of my least favorite.

Not going to say it's one of the worst, because it was one of the first 3D platformers and very influential, but it is not fun to play in the slightest.

>>11881282
That's retarded, SM64 is probably the best 3D platformer to actually play, the movement is excellent. It's everything else that's kind of shitty.

>>11881286
>Muh movement!!
>MUH MOVEMENT!!!!!
Shut the fuck up already. Too bad every other aspect of the game is abject dogshit

If it made it to retail, it's not a tech demo, because you've never seen an actual tech demo from this period.

>>11881302
Movement is the most important part of a platforming game you retard, the fact is SM64 nails it despite most other parts of the game being weak.

>>11879680 (OP)
>awkward dial-a-combos
>jumping three times before you get a high jump
>extra abstraction bullshit
What the actual fuck are you talking about? All you're saying is that you can't understand how to play a game designed for children.

Saying Super Mario 64 seems like arguing in bad faith. It might not be your thing, but everybody knows that its well regarded for good reason and appeals to many people. The movement is flawless, the levels are fun to mess around in, there’s stuff to do, see and explore. Nobody had done that before.

Compare Super Mario 64 to the few other 3d platformers of the time (96). Alpha waves, Bubsy 3d, Jumping Flash 1 and 2, Geograph Seal, Crash, Soultrap and Tomb Raider. I suppose Powerslave has some platforming too if we’re counting first person games. Technically Vortex on SNES had some levels resembling 3d platforming. By 97 most 3d platformers like Jersey Devil were just copying Mario 64, or totally linear like Croc, Chameleon Twist and Ninpen Manmaru. By 98 the copycats were in full swing with Spyro, Banjo, Glover etc. When everyone copies a game you know it’s good.

To me the only real competition at the time was the fps games, Crash and Tomb Raider. All these games are completely different. Crash is corridor based, its essentialy DKC from different angles. Tomb Raider is like a 3d prince of persia based on puzzles and precise platforming. The fps games are their own thing too. All are great. But Mario 64 was about exploration of a 3d environment with a fun moveset. That was all anyone wanted at the time and Nintendo delivered.

>>11881330
No, it's not, not even close. Level design is, and hazard design, camera, pacing, aboss design, controls, artstyle, and atmosphere. Gay easter egg hunts aren't fun. Retreading a level 7 times isn't fun.

There is no flow to Mario 64 because there is 10 fucking jump types, plus momentum, plus analog. Levels aren't designed around your moveset, it just feels like a series of disjointed jumps.

>>11881456
NTA but can you give examples of good 3D platformers then?

hurr durr, great game ackshually bad!

>>11881282
>but it is not fun to play in the slightest.
I simply don't believe you're a fan of the genre if you don't enjoy the basic movement of 64. I get you're talking about Sonic or something

>>11879707
that explains why the level design is dogshit in half of the game

>>11879680 (OP)
threads like this are really easy to consume because I dont have to do anything. I dont have to defend Mario 64 because history already solidified it.

>>11881456
>Level design is, and hazard design, camera, pacing, aboss design, controls,
None of this means shit if the controls aren't good
>artstyle, and atmosphere
Literally irrelevant to a good video game, just window dressing

>>11881430
>The movement is flawless
Oh, shut the fuck up already. It's 2D Mario physics in 3D, along with some of the worst slope and ice physics in a videogame. There is no fucking consideration given to how depth perception and limited camera affect 3D movement. In a 2D game, you have a perfect view of the playfield at all times and everything is clearly visible and to scale; having very heavy physics and momentum just doesn't just transfer to a 3D space when you are dealing with these limitations.

You have a dozen different frivolous actions thrown in, like doing three jumps in a row and you can arbitrarily jump higher, and barebones playground levels with platforms and enemies just randomly peppered throughout, instead of a tight and consistent moveset where each action has a specific purpose and levels are actually designed to flow around this moveset.

Mario 64 is hardly a platformer, so much as it is a tech demo and an autistic toolbox for speedruns and romhacks. Even if you did really enjoy just jumping around like a faggot in empty levels, you can't even do that because you have to do a bunch of gay easter egg hunts and retread each level 7 times.

>>11881537
>atmosphere and artstyle don't matter at all
Fucking lmao, I've seen enough

>mario 64 fan
>look inside
>crippling autism and obsessed with speedtrooning
Literally every fucking time

>>11881460
Oh, easy.. Crash PS1 trilogy, fucking masterpieces.

>>11881547
>>atmosphere and artstyle don't matter at all
>Fucking lmao, I've seen enough
They quite literally don't. These are fucking video games. Video games aren't art and they never will be, sorry. I know Sony is trying really hard to sell that they are, but it's not true.

>>11881553
You are either trolling or as fucking stupid as they come. Either way, not bothering, you made it too obvious

>>11881556
Yes yes, run along now little tard. You won't be able to run from the reality that video games are not art, however.

>>11881456
>>11881302
Oh, you're fucking stupid.

>>11881562
No, you don't understand. The movement is simply not the most important part of the genre that revolves around running and jumping. Now the atmosphere? That's what really counts.

Wait wtf we think that SM64 has bad artstyle and atmosphere now?

>>11881481
it really shits the bed when you go to the 2nd floor

>>11881551
You just don't like collectathons it seems

>>11881568
No, level design is by far the most important.

Mario 64 has shit controls, shit bosses, shit artstyle, shit camera, and constant padding tedium as well to shit level design. Movement can't carry a game, not even close

>You can't just slap 2D Mario's momentum and physics into a 3D game
Why in the fuck is this thread still going when OP literally starts with this and this has absolutely nothing to do with Mario's movement in SM64, this is just a lie

Extremely low quality thread. OP is a fag. Kill it brutally

>>11881582
>No, level design is by far the most important.
Navigating a well-designed level with clunky controls would be a waste. You get the movement right, then design the levels to accommodate.

>>11881582
Level design is based around movement, anon. Never the other way around.

>>11881551
>Crash PS1 trilogy
LOL get the fuck outta here

>>11881602
Crash is actually much closer to being a proper 3D Mario game, Mario 64 is just a 3D game featuring Mario.

Die OP

>>11879680 (OP)
>>11881543
You're actually spitting facts despite getting shit on by N64kids. One more thing to note is that Mario 64 actually failed to capture the appeal of 2D Mario and sold worse than any previously released Mario game. Aside from North America, Mario 64 failed to sell the hardware.

The harsh truth is that this game and Yoshi's Island abandoned what made Mario Mario. Mario 64 is a 3D game featuring the Mario IP, not a proper 3D transition of Mario. The entire 3D thing and voice acting also made it look childish and lame.

>>11881601
I already addressed that multiple times dumbfcuk retard

>>11881597
Excess moves, and a bunch of momentum shit =/= good moveset

The movement is in large part why the level design is so shit. You have a dozen different jumps, analog movement, analog jumps, heavy momentum, and slippery surfaces despite completely blundering the basics like camera control, perspective, and depth perception. Those worked in 2D just fine, but not in 3D where they just bruteforced the 2D Mario movement.

That's why levels, hazards, and enemies are so dull and barebones and platforming is just a series of disjointed jumps where the main challenge is the shitty camera and perspective

OP is legitimately mentally ill and has posted this shit dozens of times now. No point in engaging, not like he's looking to have an honest conversation or is willing to change his mind

Even IF Mario 64 had good level design (which it doesn't, not even fucking close), I would have lost interest the second you had to wander around like a dickhead doing gay easter egg hunts, and also the whole 'fuck you, start at the beginning and retread the level 6 more times'.

>>11879680 (OP)
>You can't just slap 2D Mario's momentum and physics into a 3D game with no care how it actually functions.
If you can't then how come they did? Clearly it's not the impossible task you claim it is.

>>11881250
They're an off-shoot of the "you didn't beat the game" people.

>>11881569
Looks like SM64's on the menu for contrarians now. Not too long ago it was OoT. All the retards are gonna start pulling all sorts of ridiculous shit out of their ass to try and convince everyone SM64 is ass. Time to get out the popcorn.

>Good tech demo, really bad game

Is this what counts as discourse on this board? Dimwit critiques of a game everyone knows is good? This board is so gay lol

>>11881680
>No point in engaging, not like he's looking to have an honest conversation or is willing to change his mind
Neither are the rest of the users defending the game, for that matter.

>>11881781
>dimwit's critique
Meanwhile
>argumentum ad populum
>ad hominem
Kek

>>11879707
>Miyamoto even admitted that all the levels and designs were just hastily thrown together last minute.
This explains why the levels felt so abstract and inorganic.
I sold my N64 to get a PSX as soon as I saw the gameplay of spyro.
Fuck tech demos

>>11882005
spyro is literally a tech demo

Incredibly retarded thread. /vr/ is truly dead as for yesterday

>>11882007
Let's have another Metroid thread were people call the first two games unplayable rubbish while shilling the shit GBA titles, as if that was any better.

>>11879680 (OP)
Mario was always shit and there were always better platformers.
>>11879694
>most speedrunned game of all time
No one is disputing that mario posters are cancer everyone who loves games knows that nintendo consumers are by far the biggest assholes in existence and always have been

>>11879680 (OP)
I don’t even like the n64 and I can admit this is a great game.

>>11882102
I like the N64 and can admit this is a shit game

>>11879680 (OP)
Mario 64 isn't a 3D Mario game, it's a 3D game with Mario. Its game design phylosophy is completely different from 2D Mario to the point it's basically a new franchise. But the most insulting part is how devs treat contents. What matters to them is having ideas and showing them off, not making said ideas interesting to play and serving the level design. Long story short, Mario 64 has the actual potential to grow into a long series of masterpieces, but Nintendo devs do not care about those masterpieces, all they want is for people to fellate them for having ideas, so once the game is done, they let it rot and go on to make another ego trip that only please themselves, rinse and repeat.

>>11879680 (OP)
filtered faggot is malding. he's feeling intellectual insecurity and feeling left out. kill yourself.

>>11884257
Did OP hurt your feelings, Anon.

>>11882005
People go on and on about UOOOHHH WET DRY WORLD LOOOOREEEE like I'm supposed to care about this obvious fucking devtest map covered in ugly fucking textures.

I've seen middle schoolers shit out better maps in Hammer.

>>11879680 (OP)
The controls are excellent and the atmosphere is comfy in a clean and bright kinda way. Level design is all over the place and most of the challenge can be trivialized with expert movement.

>>11879680 (OP)
Engagement Bot thread successful

>>11881106
that's right, only trannies are good at video games. i on the other hand am a total scrub retard and that's a good thing because only trannies would want to get better at video games.

It's incredibly over hyped which leads to disappointment when people without nostalgia finally play it after watching speedruns and reading all the praise about it online (like myself.) But it's still a overall good game and I really do not understand the majority of complaints about it's controls. I would describe the controls as unpolished (weird slopes, overzealous bumping off walls, easy to miss grabbing bosses from behind) and buggy (invisible walls) and unlike the prior 2D platformers, the level design does not demand much skill. You can easily get to the end credits (70 stars) in casual play only knowing the most accessible moves, the triple jump and dive. You don't need to do a single long jump or even catch the rabbit in the basement.
I struggle to understand the issues with the controls unless the criticism is really about the unique turning radius and momentum based movement, similar to how people complain tank controls.

I dont think this game is amazing but i think its good, i think it did a better job than mario sunshine and whatever wii iteration at impressing you with the worlds you went in. It had some stinker levels but had a lot of cool ones with their own ambience and atmosphere. Maybe i would say the good levels are a higher high than following games but the lows are lower lows than following games. it has a lot of really memorable areas and stage which i think is why people like it so much. does anyone else agree with me on this? I never even finished the game so im by no means a fanboy. but a lot of the levels in future mario games i played really didnt immerse me or interest me like many of the n64 levels.

I think at this point with the switch it would be cool if they remade this, normally i am not a fan of remakes, but seeing a lot of those places in new graphics could be cool. The courtyard around peaches castle, that water level you swim around in when you spawn on that gloomy beach, the weird haunted house area surrounded by a fence, exploring the castle again which to my knowledge has never been in another game, even the first level from mario 64 is super memorable. they may not feel like "mario levels" but they were fun to explore and invited you to experiment and look around.

>>11884838
>a better job than mario sunshine and whatever wii iteration at impressing you with the worlds you went in.
Similarly, I think the strongly themed worlds of SMB3 are more impressionable than the "worlds" in SMW which are mostly subject to a unifying food theme. But with Sunshine I do think they did a better job at making distinct levels within a singular theme by using strong gameplay gimmicks and different times of day (Yoshi's Island also does this.) I can't comment on the Galaxy games because I haven't played them.

>>11884808
You really make the naysayers out to be retards, anon. Well done.

>>11879680 (OP)
Kek, good thread OP

>>11879680 (OP)
It's the best Mario game

Back when I played this game, we used a controller that had a center-joystick and controlling Mario felt like you were flying a fighter jet.
The music was great, the discoveries were endless, and we played on a television screen that the game was designed for (see: it looked good).

>>11881104
>What use is a game that feels bad to play?
What use is a game that feels good to play but there's nothing substantial to play

>>11879707
That definitely explains why most levels feel like tech demos.

>>11879707
god forbid people actually enjoy the mechanics of a damn videogame

>>11881481
I think Lethal Lava Land is the worst design, yet it is somehow my favorite.

>>11890251
Hard to enjoy mechanics when that's all there is.

This is why people loved Banjo Kazooie more.

platforming is a fundamentally immature genre indicative of a simpler, less developed game dev consciousness.

>>11890329
this. if devs never moved on from it we would have never had the first game that is considered art with the last of us.

>>11890340
sadly you're too gay to understand

which controller do you think is best for this game? im thinking of getting another madcatz 64 controller. i think they are a superior build quality but i have not tried any of the new wireless n64 controllers. frankly i think that it was the sameo n the gamecube xbox and ps2 in may cases that madcatz made a superior product.

>>11890297
Did you know the game had colors?
And MUSIC?

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know what doesn't?
Witcher

>>11890367
>Did you know the game had colors?
>And MUSIC?
Barely.

>>11879680 (OP)
peak

>>11890297
all the rare 3D platformers are slow + boring

>I don't like it so actually it's horrible and everyone who does is wrong and delusional
Autism is one hell of a mental disease, huh?

Mario 64 is bad now? What hell yuor boplem

>>11879680 (OP)
A shitpost by OP

>aspie zoomie can't into kino classic starts lashing out
like clockwork

>>11879694
fpbp

>>11884485
DAS RITE

>>11879680 (OP)
>good tech demo
>doesn't even use half the graphical features of the N64
>the codebase is an outright abomination
wew

>>11892835
Gotta give it some kind of participation medal you know

>>11879680 (OP)
its a really amazing tech demo, and was really fun at the time. still pretty fun to be honest, the flaws stand out more. everything about it has since been improved, and it shows. its amazing how well they did for such a preliminary and primitive foray into the medium though.

being pedantic about the level design is laughably worthless. its obvious that its a bunch of random shapes and assets thrown together. some places are a bit more cohesive than others, and some are complete messes of random shit (like rainbow road and wet dry world). games dont need to be precise architectural designs in order to be fun. its a sandbox to enjoy the novelty of 3d. a tech demo. its pretty good for what it is, but only a retard would try and hold it up as a masterpiece of quality in the medium. pretty much everything on the n64 falls under that, ESPECIALLY mario64, oot, and goldeneye.

>>11893179
>games dont need to be precise architectural designs in order to be fun
No, but they do need to have a solid mythos and feel like an actual world. OoT and GoldenEye don't fall into this and neither does the Peach Castle in Mario 64..

>>11893524
>solid mythos and feel like an actual world
>OoT and GoldenEye don't fall into this
>neither does the Peach Castle
Explain.

>>11893580
Most of the worlds in Mario 64 are nothing but floating and/or shredded pieces cobbled together. They look lame, nothing makes sense and there's no mythos in them that fuels the imagination. Peach Castle at least made sense as it actually felt like a place. In order to have a sense of adventure, the player needs a sense of the land they have traveled through. This is why the world maps in SMB3/World were so popular, and also why Zelda was so popular because it felt like you were traveling a landscape.