Thread 11880819

Is the Zelda money system a good thing?

The wallet system first introduced in OoT is pure cancer

I always feel like Zelda tried hard not to be an actual RPG. No Zelda really stresses buying anything. The wallet is just there to lock you out of stronger items until later. Maybe it's for the better, because it's about exploration and puzzles first, and it keeps the series' identity. Not like you buy armor and swords in Zelda anyway

only in link's awakening
>only a few rupee blocks for game progression (tiny amount for crane game, 200 for shovel, 980 for bow)
>if you explore a bit (but not excessively) you'll find enough to get shovel/bow right as they become needed to progress
>if you don't, you might need to farm a small amount instead, but not excessively
>you can always steal the bow if you're willing to taint yourself with the permanent THIEF name in order to bypass rupee farm
the only issue is there's no purpose to it after you get the bow

Seems pretty solid in the first game.

>>11880819 (OP)
It does the job. In TP I bought oil, arrows, bombs. In SS I even bought a couple of potions.

>>11880851
Want it, it's yours my friend

It is, as long as you have enough rupees

>>11880826
How? You need 30 skulltulas to get the Giant's Wallet, bro. There's 100 in the game. Finding that many is super easy.

Only Zelda 1 has a good money system

>>11880819 (OP)
It’s basically a non-issue. If anything, it was a marketing gimmick to convince parents there was education / surrogate life experience for kids to gain from playing vidya because of the money management aspect in the original. At least that’s what my parent’s thought process was when they bought my older brother an NES

>>11880819 (OP)
Not retro but the switch games were the only ones to really get the money system right since you don’t earn a lot of money directly and you have to sell stuff you collect for cash. It gives the things you buy a sense of value since there’s somewhat of an economy in the game world

>>11880983
BotW was an improvement in that they made it harder to acquire rupees, but it still didn't really have enough that was worth actually spending your rupees on to have an actual economy. During my playthrough I remember basically only ever buying arrows from wandering merchants or dumping rupees to unlock the fairy fountains, everything else you could buy was easier to just gather instead.

>>11880958
>marketing gimmick
Your parents are unironically smarter than you.

>>11880983
>you have to sell stuff you collect for cash
You need to do this in OoT if you want to actually use the economy to your advantage. I literally just got Biggoron's Sword last night and I had to sell fish to the beggar in order to make the cash to buy two blue flames to unfreeze King Zora and the Zora Shop in the Zora Domain. I also got that gold rupee (200) in the hole in Kakariko while I was there. I did this, mind you, right after pulling the Master Sword from the pedestal for the first time. You don't need to wait for the Ice Cavern to get blue flame, you can just buy it for 300 rupees a pop at the Potion Shop in Kakariko. My guess is people don't actually understand what you can do in these games with what is available. I find my finances are a yo-yo in OoT and I think it adds a level of complexity to the game because there's tons of secret ways to get the cash that is strewn about the land. Like, what is the point of all those secrets if you aren't ever going to use them? When I'm out and about doing shit I need cash, but I can only carry so much, so it's really cool to know how to refill the cash meter by actually using the *secret* overworld shortcuts and *cash* in on secret stashes.

>>11880832
Seasons just give up completely and let you sink your 200-300 rupee drops into random ring RNG.

>>11880819 (OP)
like most things in most nintendo games it's a decent idea that's ruined by the game being criminally easy. playing OOT and majora with weird shit like 4X damage or a randomizer and I suddenly found myself wanting to buy resources constantly, either because I was actually at risk of dying or because I was burning resources in order to kill things quick instead of mindless sword mashing

>>11880819 (OP)
just remove money from Zelda

>>11880819 (OP)
The money system is actively punitive in WW. Your dinky ass wallet completely deincentivizes ever treasure trawling while sailing about, up until the triforce shard fetch quest, when suddenly you need a shit ton to pay off tingle. Then you very quickly become sick of treasure trawling because it's all crammed back to back instead of spread out on your way to doing other shit like it should have been.

Rupees have been an artifact ever since they stopped being used as ammo for your bow.

>>11880819 (OP)
Usually by the end of the games you have more rupees than you know what to do with. Like you can get infinite in OoT if you do the Skulltula quest but there's nothing more to buy really.

>>11881665
You can easily get both wallets pretty early on, which gives you a 1K rupee cap and then a 5K rupee cap. You don't even need anything to get the wallet from the fairy in the north and all you need are bombs to get the wallet from the fairy in the south. The last time I played I got the wallets as soon as I could and I was quickly able to amass loads of cash.

Money in Zelda stopped mattering when they made cutting grass solve all your problems

>>11881048
in ss they give you some good stuff to buy off beetle and the skyloft market iirc

>>11880958
You're literally retarded

>>11880819 (OP)
Just having a low cap is fine, but fuck wallet power-ups.

>>11880910
>defending the wallet system
NGMI, probably going to defend the stupid “bomb bags” next

>>11880958
>mechanics are gimmicks
the absolute state

>>11880819 (OP)
I like rupees and I find upgrading your wallet through the game is satisfying but most games in the series don't use rupees for anything interesting.
I'm playing oot master quest right now and was going to try and find all the skulltulas until I realized there's no real point to me getting the best wallet. What am I gonna spend it on, more arrows? The first wallet upgrade is enough to pick up the occasional thing I need like magic beans.
I guess I shouldn't really expect that sort of thing from zelda, its not the sort of game that needs some deep and complex economy. Saving up and buying the occasional special item from shops is satisfying enough. And when I was a kid money had more use since I was bad at games and might need to buy potions and stuff.

>>11881939
Don't tell me you want bombs on cooldown and not a consumable. Increasing capacity by finding those secrets strewn about the land is a perfectly reasonable progression. Do you just feel entitled to high capacity right out of the gate? Do you just not like the game? What's your deal? Why do you have a problem with bomb bags?

>>11881665
The best part of the game is the one you're misunderstanding. There's a wallet upgrade you can find in Outset and on a fairy island way before the triforce shard hunt begins. There's also a few opportunities to spend rupees as well, between needed bait to chart the sea, auction house items, a bottle and heart piece for sale. Throughout the game you're able to get rupees in many ways not just from fishing it up, and during the triforce shard hunt you're able to spend rupees obtained from anywhere else. It's the one time in the game there's true sense of non-linearity to the progression.

>>11880832
Twilight Princess however did it the best. In the original you would even put the rupees back if you were full up on wallets, just in case you wanted to return for it later should it be a massive amount; as per OP's picrel. There's money expenditures all over the game. There's a sidequest to donate a lot of them to get a heart piece, and another to donate to add a bridge shortcut to the overworld which even opens a new sidequest. There's minigames for heart pieces, there's minigames for bomb bags of which there's three and all three can be upgraded, the last one on the top of my head is magic armor which consumes rupees every second and for taking damage; if you somehow amass a lot after everything.

>>11880819 (OP)
No, you'd just put it in your hat or sock. Money is money.
>You just stumble upon 200 rupees while cutting grass for fun and you fell in a hole.
>Ohhh, but you don't have room for the money in your wallet.
You'd be stuffing the rupees up your butt and around the corner.

>>11881073
>farming money in oot
If the wallet refill for selling the bunny hood doesn't leave you set for the rest of the game, you can kill the skull kid in adult lost woods for 200 rupees a pop

>>11880910
You don't even need the giant's wallet anyway, the most expensive thing in the game is the Hylian shield, and if you're not totally stupid, you won't end up spending 120 rupees on that either. And the tunics but you get all of those for free.

>>11881939
Fuck off

>>11882125
>doesn't leave you set for the rest of the game
What do you even do in these games?
>>11882134
>You don't even need the giant's wallet anyway
>the most expensive thing in the game is the Hylian shield
Lol. Big oof here, mate. Didja even play the game? Blue flame is 300 rupees. Bombchus from the flying carpet salesman are 200 rupees for 10 (these are infinite, btw). You don't *need* much, mate, so I dunno why that's even worth bringing up. I get the Giant's Wallet so I can rush down King Zora and the Zora Shop with blue flame (that's 600 rupees, or 2*300) right off the bat and I like having the extra funds to quickly restock my supplies as I am going about my play.

>>11880819 (OP)
In ALttP your money would go up to max and if you picked up any rupees above that then it wouldn't count. So if you found a treasure chest with like 300 rupees and you were already at 999, then those 300 rupees are nullified. But it didn't really matter because there wasn't that much you could buy in the game and there was an abundance of rupees. But, I can see why they made it that rupees were "put back" in OoT, because it was a bit disappointing when you found XXX rupees but you lost them because you were already at max.

https://zeldauniverse.net/forums/index.php?thread/217319-about-ocarina-of-time-rupees
here's what one extremely autistic but well-spoken guy had to say about rupees, at least for OoT.

i trust his intuition because his posts are #1 google results for topics he covered and most of his posts are dissertation length analyses of zelda, yet he somehow got banned after 17 posts lawl.

>>11882231
>2024
wow is fucking nothing

>>11882253
i hope you're not implying that some gamefaqs or deviantart blog fag writing about the game in 2003 would have a better opinion lol

>>11882231
>to say that rupees are useless, worthless, underutilized or anything of similar nature... well, I'd say that's just bogus.
i only skimmed his post and i can't stand his writing style. i'd probably want to end my life if i heard him speak.

>>11882272
>having to skim that instead of just being able to read the entire thing in 5 minutes and then call him a faggot with impunity
You're just not autistic, that's okay. As a result, you shouldn't be here.

>>11882264
the way the comment was worded made the impression we were about to read some ancient schizo kino opinion, instead is just your average norman zoomer. Even schizo zoomers have nothing at all to offer.

>>11882281
your average normie zoomer does not write shit like that, you are a retard. his minimalist run guide puts any autism for games you have to shame
https://zeldauniverse.net/forums/index.php?thread/217226-about-ocarina-of-time-minimalist-runs

Remember when Zelda II didn't have currency and nobody cared? Exactly. It's basically useless fluff. In Zelda 1, it existed solely to gate off certain items to low levels, but really this could just be accomplished as standard loot. Really ask yourself, have you ever actually bought bombs or health from a Zelda NPC from SNES onwards? The games themselves even make the conceit that you can get common items just from playing the game normally.

>www wwwaahhhh nobody cares about zelda ii, why are you mentioning it?
I care a lot. It's the best Zelda game.

>>11880819 (OP)
It has only been useful in one game we can't talk about for 15 more years

I go out of my way to visit shops in OoT to buy stuff instead of cutting grass. Lol.

>>11882285
>thinks minimalists run weren't a thing in the 90s
This shit isn't new, next your are going to say a 3day challengue in majoras blows your mind.
Just stop son, you are out of your league, you know nothing of the kind of discussion people used to have on forums back then.

>>11881734
>and I was quickly able to amass loads of cash
That was never my problem, the problem was storing it all. Even the 5k wallet fills too quickly and I have to leave chests behind. If you take all the maps to tingle, he will empty a 5k wallet and still need more. So by necessity, the fetch quest is also part fundraiser to refill your insufficient wallet. So the wallet size ultimately incentivizes you to leave all the sea treasure alone until that point in the game. You'll get enough rupees for everything else at that point without it.
>>11882095
Yes, getting the wallet upgrade so early is helpful at first, but it's still easy to fill it up as you go along, even buying those things you mention. It's never not annoying having tingle bankrupt me when I had to pass over so many chests that I now need.

>>11882309
i don't know why you're getting pissed at me, i never said it was new and i didn't write that shit. that dude even started his post with "I imagine many of you know about this already (and have perhaps even done such a run yourselves before)" but you were too much of a butthurt faggot to even read what was written and now you're mad about nothing. go ahead and link me to a more comprehensive guide for a min run.

>>11882319
>i don't know why you're getting pissed at me
i'm not upset, i'm deeply confused, you kids are surprised by the stupidiest shit.
People used to fear bricking their consoles attempting exploits, and people used to make fun of them because of it. Nintendo even made an announcement once that all the exploits from 64 could be replicated on 3ds and that it was, apparently, intentional.

>go ahead and link me to a more comprehensive guide for a min run.
lol sure i'll spoon feed you, just lurk gamefaqs i think it will be a good start for you.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/197771-the-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time?search=Minimalist%20Run

Outside of a few items, in a lot of Zelda games it just provides an alternative for item farming (and in a lot of Zelda games, most of the time you're pretty well set for items). Even in LttP, the bomb and arrow carrying upgrades weren't really necessary, and outside of a couple boosts each becomes absolute overkill, unless you just get particular joy out of using bombs or arrows to kill every basic enemy you encounter. And even if you are enough of a completionist to get all the upgrades, you probably still reach a point before finishing the game where you wind up accumulating more Rupees than you can carry. The only nice shop-exclusive optional thing to have in reserve is potions, but those aren't particularly pricey, and as far as health goes, a Faerie or two is typically more than sufficient, and safer, especially if you're running with a low amount of Heart Containers.
Basically, sure, the Rupee system is nice to have and it is always satisfying to find them or pull a sizable stash from a chest or as a prize, but you almost always seem to reach a point well before the end of the game where they become largely pointless and your wallet is typically maxed out.

>>11882343
>i'm not upset, i'm deeply confused, you kids are surprised by the stupidiest shit.
jesus dude, i linked you to some shit i've seen posted a couple times that seemed like a good resource, and now you're turning it into "you're le zoomer faggot who knows noooothing". i'm fucking 42 years old and i bought this game about 6 months after it came out. get off your high horse man.

also lmao at those gamefaqs links. the first and most comprehensive one is from 2018 and it doesn't cover all the information in the guide i showed you, and most of the posts get something wrong (unless you're telling me the magicbean guy is wrong about something which based on my knowledge he isn't). the other whopping 3 links are typical retarded early 2010s drivel with tons of 13 year old kid misinfo and guesswork, except for the one from 2009 that has two fucking posts in it and no info.

>>11882231
I've seen this guy's stuff posted before. Somebody said he got banned for saying something bad about trannies in the off topic forum. He clearly has a deep autistic obsession with the game and seems to know his shit, but his writing style is robotic and verbose. It reminds me of how John Carmack needs to explain every minute detail of any given topic because he assumes anyone listening is too stupid to understand otherwise, though to be fair that might be a good assumption on a retard pit like ZU. I wonder what he said about trannies.
>Now, a man wearing a dress who exhibits effeminate qualities might believe himself to be a woman based on cultural norms that reinforce his misplaced beliefs, but let's not forget the ultimate issue is that he was born with a penis. So, you see...

A lot of it boils down to how you spend Rupees. Some people are hardcore "if I can get the item through other gameplay, I won't buy it" and will only spend their Rupees on things which are exclusively available behind some form of a pay barrier, either outright purchasing or pay-to-play minigames. These people will probably find themselves awash with Rupees and reach a point where they feel they have nothing to spend them on. The other end of the spectrum will avoid doing any sort of item farming if they have enough Rupees to just buy the item outright. These types probably think that the amount of Rupees in the game is almost perfect, if not a bit insufficient for their preferred playstyle. Just like in real life, there are people whose first reaction to resolving a problem is pay somebody else to fix it, while others will go full DIY, even going so far as to spend a good chunk of time and effort to resolve the issue themselves, even if it winds up being a miserable use of their time.

I just wish the games didn't constantly fill your inventory with every slash of a pot or bush. I always have a full wallet because theres no reason to buy literally anything.

The OoT PC port has an option to disable item drops completely and I found it way more fun and it encouraged me to use items I normally wouldn't when I ran out of the good stuff. I had fun having to use Farores Wind to dip out of a dungeon to go to the store to get items, or seek out the hidden fairy fountains to get some fairies. Heck I even bought stuff from the Business Scrubs which I always thought were completely worthless. It genuinely feels like the game was initially designed without the constant item drops in mind, why else would the stores and all the business scrubs even exist, why would I pay and walk all the way over to them when I can just smash a pot or bush thats usually in close proximity to any given location and for free? It also made me value all the hidden grottos and chests that only had a single blue rupee in them, since the only way I could get money was from those chests.

I wish there was a patch like this for every single Zelda game, it let me have more fun, got me more immersed in the world looking for secrets, and brought some genuinely tense situations to the table whenever I was low on something I needed at that moment. It changes the entire experience and dynamic of the game for the better.

>>11882416
>It genuinely feels like the game was initially designed without the constant item drops in mind
IMO it was, and then at the last second they became worried that the inevitable sea of 7 year olds playing the game would get filtered by having to leave a dungeon for arrows or some shit, so they just threw in a bunch of retard-proofing at the last second. You can see it everywhere in the game. IIRC you could originally go to either Dodongo's or Jabu Jabu first but they added the boulders in Zora's River in the 11th hour to prevent people from getting lost, which is why if you leave Dodongo's after getting the bombs and beat Jabu first it'll give you unique text telling you to go to Dodongo even though 99% of people never would've done it that way, because that was the original intention.

The weird part is that they largely ignored this approach or stopped caring during the adult portion of the game since you can beat the adult dungeons in a ton of different orders. All they needed to do was not have grass give you fucking bombs, arrows and magic jars and the game would've been way more difficult and complex.

>>11882450
I felt insulted when I first played Wind Waker and they made a boss that somehow took too many arrows to get through its phases to the point it had to interrupt its own battle to snort free refills at you but still didn't have any challenge.

>>11882416
Imagine losing the Romani Ranch standoff because you didn't go in with full arrows and exhausted the supply crate, because the aliens weren't guaranteed to drop arrows.
Being prepared for adventure should be the "Adventuring 101" type shit that these games should teach. But alas.

>>11882454
>they wantu seriousu zerderu... spaceworldu 2000u.... but this is not nintendo way... we must be differentu...
>Uh, sir, the cel-shading thing is big right now, should we try that?
>yress... yress.... this is goodu, cartoo zerder, very famiry friendry... very uniqueu...
>arso, peopreu respondu very werr to ocarinu of timeu because hard to get rost... make game very hard to get rost, but make overwordu oceanu so it seem rike prayer have freedomu...
>And... sir, the bosses, the dungeons?
>who fuck caresu? makeu four dungeonu, it worku for gayjora masku... it worku for this gameu... gaijin rove zerder, they wirr have no problemu...

>>11882314
There's a mini dungeon in a hole on an island somewhere that's an excellent fundraiser. There's also the ghost ship, which is something that gives you tons of cash and you can keep doing over. Usually the going back and forth allows you to finish up some of the things you didn't do, so I don't have a problem with it. Probably the only game I really have a problem with (the backtracking) is Paper Mario: TTYD. The devs of that game genuinely hate the player.

>>11882231
Get a load of that fuckin' save-stater in the comments section. What a huge noob. There's a red rupee in a pot to the right of the draw bridge room door just inside the gate.

>>11882184
>Blue flame is 300 rupees.
that thing you get for free?

>>11882286
it's always been strange to me to have such a useless main collectible in these games

>>11882314
>Even the 5k wallet fills too quickly
I've beaten the game so many times and never filled the wallet, idk what you were doing but you were wrong to do it

>>11882416
>I had fun having to use Farores Wind to dip out of a dungeon to go to the store to get items
I just dont see it, because you're describing busy work you insisted on existing

>>11882461
that would just cause a lot of tedium having to repeat all those gay steps on another cycle

>>11882093
>Defending Sloparina’s dumb design decisions.

N
G
M
I

>>11880819 (OP)
OoT would be perfect if drops from grass and pots were drastically reduced and one or two more endgame items were added. The abundance makes the existence of quantities meaningless

>>11880832
You're forgetting the 300 rupees you pay Mamu to learn the Frog's Song of Soul, otherwise yeah the need for rupees isn't tremendous in Link's Awakening.

Link to the Past is similar, you need 500 rupees to get the Zora flippers, and you pay the monkey 120 rupees to enter a dungeon. There's also random amount to get the heart pieces from a treasure chests mini-game, and the digging mini game.
Otherwise, the rupees are only useful for fortune telling, mini-games, bomb and arrow capacity upgrades, and shops, which are 100% optional and avoidable if you're a skilled player that doesn't need potions. Even green potions are free if you give a great fairy an empty bottle, just in case you need a refill for bosses like Mothula, Kholdstare, or Trinexx.

>>11883084
Okay, it's just a bot.

>>11883049
It's not free. It costs time.

>>11883145
Yeah, the player upon exiting the ice cavern might only have one bottle of blue fire, and if they decide to use it on the shop, they have the option to buy the blue tunic in there, and more blue fire if they want to thaw King Zora.

Whilst buying the blue fire is poor strategy on the player's part, it's contingency for if the player makes bad decisions.
It's also why you're forced to have at least one empty bottle, so you can use it to solve puzzles like feeding lord Jabu Jabu a fish, capturing Big Poes to sell to the Poe Collector, etc.

>>11882184
>mate
You're british and allow pakistanis to rape your kids then cover it up, so nobody cares what you have to say.

>>11883153
>Yeah, the player upon exiting the ice cavern might only have one bottle of blue fire
The presumption was that you don't even need to enter the Ice Cavern to unfreeze King Zora, or the Zora Shop, thus saving you the hassle of navigating that obstacle course. This allows you to get Biggoron's Sword before even the Forest Temple by rushing Epona and the Hookshot right after you pull the sword. In fact, you can cut the Ice Cavern in half simply by bringing blue flame with you to the Ice Cavern. I'm pretty sure you need two bottles to progress through to the Iron Boots.

>>11883187
To extrapolate on this. It means you can get Biggoron's Sword and the Iron Boots very early by bringing three bottles of blue flame with you to Zora's Domain. That allows you to get the Ice Arrow just after you complete the Forest Temple, provided you're good enough to do the Gerudo's Training Ground with minimal equipment. Taking this further, this particular path allows you to acquire all consumable capacity extensions right after that and before every other dungeon left (Water, Fire, Spirit & Shadow). That's very early and it's pretty cool to sport that equipment through the majority of the game. I literally just did something like this yesterday, but instead of rush the Ice Cavern I only popped Big Zora out of his ice to get Biggoron's. It was satisfying to slay the twin Wolfos that ambush you in the Forest Temple Entrance with one big powered up spin attack and it was satisfying to shred Phantom Ganondorf up with Biggoron's. Biggoron's wrecks the Poe Sisters with that reach, too. The Ice Arrow is super underrated as well. I'm looking forward to finding great ways to utilize it moving forward.

>>11882416
>Farores Wind
I always wished I used this more effectively.

>>11883187
>The presumption was that you don't even need to enter the Ice Cavern to unfreeze King Zora, or the Zora Shop
and that's preposterous because not only is 300 rupees well over the 99 cap, and the 200 cap, but the shop is fucking frozen shut.

>>11883268
Hmm. You seem to be a bot, a troll or a retarded person. I'm not entirely sure.

>>11883214
>Ice Arrow
Bongo Bongo is the only interesting thing that comes to mind.

>>11883295
The shop is froze shut you idiot

>>11883298
the spikes that move back and forth in some dungeons can be frozen

>>11883320
You buy the blue flame to unfreeze it, bro. I've been saying this since thread start. You buy blue flame at the Potion Shop in Kakariko for 300 rupees with the Giant's Wallet, which holds 500. Are you mentally handicapped in some way? Perhaps ESL? That would explain the worrying lack if comprehension on your part. Or perhaps you haven't played the game. Hard to say.

>>11883363
Sounds lame, who wants to pay for something they can literally get for free right next to where you need it anyway?

>>11883363
>You buy the blue flame to unfreeze it, bro.
the SHOP is FROZE

>>11883406
Big oof on this one.

Yes

>>11881980
That's usually the case with 6th gen games. Just look at MGS3 or GTA San Andreas.

>>11883095
They learned and with TP and SS they struck a good balance. Not autistic, but scarce enough so you'd consider buying things to save yourself some hassle.

>>11883095
To be fair, there's not actually a lot of convenient grass in OoT. There are some patches strewn about exterior areas and in some places there is an abundance, but it's honestly way easier to get the cash and buy the supplies than play grass RNG.

>>11883298
One Ice Arrow kills a Like-Like.

>>11886298
You can just run through Hyrule fields on epona for 5 minutes and fill your inventory to the brim

>>11887736
>5 minutes
Yikes, mate. I mean I love riding Epona, but let's not act like 5 minutes is actually an efficient use of your time to restock. I would just call that fucking around. Sometimes you don't get the drops you want, too.

>>11886298
>>11887736
>>11887843
>become adult
>do ice cavern before any other dungeon
>get serenade of water
>can now warp to lake hylia at any time and be warped near three large grass patches brimming with items, not to mention a gossip stone for getting fairies
>even if you don't get everything you need on the first lawnmowing, you can just enter and exit the lakeside lab, reload all of the grass and fill all of your supplies in a matter of 15 seconds
This pretty much kills any need for shops.

I'd go one better and say money in games is kind of a tricky thing to get right. There are a lot of games where you inevitably just end up with too much money and nothing to spend it on.
The solution seems to be making the game really hard, and basically making buying stuff from vendors a necessity, but a game like Zelda is never going to do that, because it's supposed to be a laid back game that someone who is playing video games for the first time can enjoy.
The secondary solution is just give the player a lot of superfluous stuff to buy. I guess that's the Animal Crossing solution. And that's fine, as long as you have hoarding instincts, but for some people that just wont be satisfying.

I think the main thing Zelda needs are copious amounts of activities that are gated by money. Put like five mini games in every town or settlement, and put a casino in the game somewhere. Maybe even have a bonus dungeon that costs the maximum amount of money you can carry, just to buy the key to the front door. Also, make red fairies a lot rarer to come by in the overworld, or have vendors sell one time use bottles (this could be depicted as a fairy encased in amber or a bubble), which can temporarily fill a slot, until you have maxed out your bottle count.

>>11887919
>need
No need to cut grass, kid.

Here's an idea: less secrets in the game reward you with treasure. Sometimes they just reward you with something cool. You find a special NPC who tells you some lore, or you find a room with some weird music. Maybe there are trapped NPCs all around the world, and freeing them will add more inhabitants to settlements. Things like that are fun on their own. You don't have to give the player money every time.

>>11887984
>doesn't like cutting grass
Aaand you're brown.

>>11888004
But what if I want both a cute npc interaction that gives money so they can then say It’s a secret to everybody

>>11888004
They did that in minish cap and it is very cool indeed

>>11882231
>https://zeldauniverse.net/forums/index.php?thread/217319-about-ocarina-of-time-rupees
He's virtually implying speedrunning was intended by the devs in such a ways a to fully validate MM's time loop mechanic as the perfect sequel to OoT, but you have to read between the lines to pick up on this esoteric conclusion. Great post, thanks for sharing it.

>>11888015
>being this ESL
Or are you just projecting your own insecurities onto me? Or maybe you don't understand the meaning of the word "need". You tell me you don't need shops. I tell you there's no need to cut grass, which is technically more true because you need shops to beat the game.

>>11888015
>best part of Zelda is cutting grass
Get off /vr/ Aonuma

>>11888832
"Need" is a matter of want, Pablo. You and I are both going to die one day, we both know we're going to die, and yet we eat to sustain a meager, temporary existence because we want to, not because we "need" to. Nobody is making you eat. Nobody cares if you stop eating. You do it for you, and you alone. Just like nobody cares if you truck through OoT using the bare minimum resources, or buy items from a shop instead of cutting grass to get the same stuff. The irony here is that the only item in the game that you "need" to buy is the Kokiri Shield, that you acquire through picking up random rupees scattered around the forest in the order and through the means that you see fit. Your wants dictate your "needs".

>>11888849
>wants are needs
That's some pretty heavy cope.

>>11888995
Actually, "needs" are wants. Back to the gas station now.

>>11889001
>Actually, "needs" are wants.
Even more cope. What's your endgame here, champ? Gonna redefine the foundation of western philosophy so you don't have to admit the anon you're talking to on some Mongolian underwater basketbasket weaving forum was right? Or are you gonna stop at the dictionary? You should stop. You're makin' me cringe. Go back and take some English classes, dude. You need them.

>>11883324
There's an idea that the ice arrows were intended to be the progression item for the Water Temple, specifically because of the moving spikes just before the boss door.
There's also the fact that you can freeze the hostile Gerudo guards using ice arrows.
https://youtu.be/vusoGpkndDo is a neat watch.

>>11889018
Someone should make romhacks that eliminate all money from all Zelda games, and make them Marxist utopias. Sure, the enemies will still be there, but in what Marxist/communist/socialist utopia is there NOT an enemy of some kind?
My personal favorite example of this is the Super Mario Bros series, where you have freedom fighters Mario and Luigi stomping on the heads of fascist Italian goombahs.

>>11889031
I know that theory

>>11887843
3 bushes and you got all you need. 5 minutes was an overstatement
>>11887956
So like King's Field , Shadow Tower
Or zelda 1.
Or as I might call it, making a more subtle, fleshed out game
OoT is still the GOAT of 3D somehow lol

>>11887956
>I think the main thing Zelda needs are copious amounts of activities that are gated by money. Put like five mini games in every town or settlement, and put a casino in the game somewhere. Maybe even have a bonus dungeon that costs the maximum amount of money you can carry, just to buy the key to the front door. Also, make red fairies a lot rarer to come by in the overworld, or have vendors sell one time use bottles (this could be depicted as a fairy encased in amber or a bubble), which can temporarily fill a slot, until you have maxed out your bottle count.
This part sounds a bit cancer though , sorry

Chadcarina made the best decisions for currency, unlike nuZelda.

>>11890131
>3 bushes
In your dreams. More like you get three rupees.

>>11882184
There is a guy who sells restocking bombchus? Where is this? I just avoided using them, as regular bombs did the job as well. Prolly not going to change anything, but I remember when I tried to beat my epona racetrack times and ended up with a cow in my tree house.

>>11890131
They're never going to make another Zelda game with NES difficulty. That was off the table as early as ALTTP. I don't even think they should really. Zelda definitely should be designed as a game that kids can get into.
Plus, in the NES game, your money gets sapped as ammo for the bow, so that isn't really fair.

>>11890134
Why? The fun of a Zelda game is puzzles and activities. If you have a logistical problem of too much money, use money as a means to access more game.
If you want people to actually buy stuff from shops, have them offer things you can't simply find in the grass.
Seems to make sense to me.

There should also be hidden quest lines that you only unlock by developing a rapport with shop keepers, which means you have to buy things. Yakuza games enjoy springing things like that on you.

>>11890372
You'll get plenty of arrows bombs and nuts in the field
>>11890568
>Talking back to me
That's what I get for making a reasonable post. Shut the fuck up zoom zoom , get back to /v/ before you get disqualified to reddit

>>11880819 (OP)
Most games have broken economies, typically you can make plenty of money but you'll have a hard time spending it.
Skyrim is a good example, you sell off all your loot and then what, what is there to buy? You can purchase new armor but you can just find it in the wild, or forge it yourself instead.
You can buy homes but they don't really serve a purpose either, all you need is a chest somewhere to store your shit.

>>11890602
Yeah, I never buy stuff in Bethesda games, because you will just find something better in the wild, about five minutes later.

>>11882281
>>11882309
>>11882343
unironic paranoid schizophrenia, seek help

>>11890372
I should clarify I mean 3 bush patches. Hyrule field seems to have increased yields

>>11890602
>Skyrim is a good example, you sell off all your loot and then what, what is there to buy? You can purchase new armor but you can just find it in the wild, or forge it yourself instead
I frequently bought enchanted armor, jewelry, training, ingredients and potions.
I played on harder difficulty and didn't want to spend 100 hours trying to find the things in the wild. Way more convenient.

Sure you can opt to hoard gold for no reason and spend time grinding crafting and random loot instead

>Link literally leaves money on the ground because his wallet is full
Nigga put in your pocket. Or in your quiver or your bomb bag. Or inside your shirt, in your boots, in your gauntlets, in your hat, in your ass, fucking anywhere. Don't tell me you can't carry one more little gem.

>>11892647
He has OCD

>>11892409
Even so, the chances you get exactly what you need for the increased capacity equipment is fairly low. 50 arrows, 40 bombs, 20 nuts, 40 seeds, 20 sticks is max capacity, plus your hearts and magic pots. In my experience you ain't coming back to full from three bush patches. I'm playing right now on original hardware 1.1 and that's just bullshit. Sure, you might get a little bit and if you exit/re-enter so many times then you can get a full refill, yet that is super gay. It's just retarded to go out of your way to run into the field to roll the dice instead of just hit a shop and get exactly what you want using your full wallet and be on your way.

>>11892663
>OCD
On the contrary, Link is not mentally ill. He understands the laws of the world and the rules of good use. Bomb bag is for bombs. Quiver is for arrows. Gauntlets are for hands. Butthole is for pooping (one-way). Pussy is for penis (as sheath is for sword). Wallet is for rupees. You break the rules and someone gets hurt or you break a tool.

>>11892676
>Even so, the chances you get exactly what you need for the increased capacity equipment is fairly low. 50 arrows, 40 bombs, 20 nuts, 40 seeds, 20 sticks is max capacity, plus your hearts and magic pots
Who needs all that

>>11892748
>needs

>>11882093
Bombs on cooldown made BotW’s shrine puzzles way better than TotK’s
Don’t knock it

>>11882359
>i'm fucking 42 years old and i bought this game about 6 months after it came out.
you sure did son.
Sorry you didn't liked the links i saw not much difference to the ones you posted. I was inviting you to lurk.

>>11890641
not an argument kiddo

>>11893840
I have no horse in this race, but the GameFAQs links you posted were embarrassing. Only one of those had any meaningful information, and ALL of it was covered in that ZU post and then some. The post was legitimately very good, autistic verbosity aside, and what you linked was a handful of halfwits with vastly less extensive knowledge of the game having mostly meaningless, brief discussions. If you aren't baiting, then you are an actual idiot for comparing these two sources, and the fact you're drudging this up again days later tells me that you're just jealous of somebody knowing much more about the game than you.

>>11892647
if you think about it, since all ruppees are the same size, he could just dump the green ones and hold more money.
>I hope someone got fired for that blunder

>>11893451
How often does a typical player even run out of bombs anyway? They're not the most practical offensive option, and are important for puzzle solving or opening passages.

Original NES Zelda I would understand because they have better combat application due to how that game's movement works, otherwise I would only expect speedrunners pulling off tricks like bomb-hovers in OoT / MM thinking about their bomb counts.

A lot of OoT's combat scenarios focus on Link using his sword and shield, or a specific weapon that deals with a given enemy, like hookshot for those clam things, bombs specifically for Beamos or Dodongos, projectiles specifically for flying enemies, etc. I think I tend to run low on arrows more than I ever do bombs, and it's just a resource management responsibility and knowing to top-up.

Aonuma's first game to put item usage on cooldowns was Link Between Worlds, including stuff that wouldn't conventionally use magic or require ammo or inventory.
Although keep in mind he's only been producing Zelda games for ages now, the last one he actually directed was Twilight Princess.

>>11893451
>Bombs on cooldown made BotW’s shrine puzzles way better than TotK’s
This shit is one of my biggest pet peeves. I fucking hate cooldown faggotry. Not only is it logically retarded, but it limits how you play (e.g. being forced to use a limitless supply of bombs within a time limit instead of letting me decide to either spam them against an enemy versus or them sparingly for puzzles depending on how many I have), and it's a wasted opportunity to add economic depth to the game. I like when a game says, "uh oh, you're running low, better go scavenge for supplies", it's a light survival element that adds risk and forces you to think strategically about how to best obtain the supplies.

Take Alundra for example. Great game, but almost every fucking item uses a bullshit cooldown, and the latter half of the game suffers from money being almost worthless because there's nothing worth buying. Had I been able to go to a shop and spend some of my cash on arrows and bombs, suddenly the gold would have had value. But no, they designed the game around dream sequences where you're stuck in some astral realm and you can't leave, and they were too lazy to add something analogous to Deku Scrub Merchants in Zelda, so their solution was just "uhhh make all the required items have infinite ammo". This approach is lazy, gay and retarded.

>>11893853
is not hard to lurk, the first link i clicked was this:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/197771-the-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time/49072759
which had this:
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/ocarina_of_time__all_categoriesn645435.html#ocarina_of_time__all_categoriesn645435

Is a 273 page thread, about a little bit of everything, and linking directly to some people discussing a minimal run. And is an old topic fron 2008 "good enough" i thought, and the next step for someone actually wanting to read is to.... read the thread.
Like i said sorry if is not what you was expecting, i didn't checked the rest and aren't going to do it now.

>the fact you're drudging this up again days later tells me that you're just jealous of somebody knowing much more about the game than you.
lol some guy responded to me calling me a schizo, is why i'm posting again.
I ignored the other guy because i felt disgusted, no 42 yo is praising something as basic as a minimal run when people were doing these all the time back in the day. Stroked me as one of those facebook boomers and wanted to puke. Then again, that guy was probably lying, lmao

I'm being autistic and pedantic about this because i'm sad. The internet is fucking dead, and felt sad that all the old forums i used to lurk are dead so now can't show them, forgive my autism, i wasn't even saying the links that guy posted were bad, just... basic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EWKvzlhaLM

>>11893910
You type like a mildly retarded 15 year old girl and you're attacking arguments that were never presented. Maybe that guy was right in calling you a schizo, because you are mentally unwell.

>>11893945
>You type like a mildly retarded 15 year old girl
? why are you telling me your fetish now

>you're attacking arguments that were never presented
point to the "argument" i was "attacking", because i was just responding to you. I was being condescending to that other faggot, but not to your post.

> you are mentally unwell.
clearly, now what, wanna try again having a simple exchange or are you too busy shitting your pants?

>>11893962
You are barely coherent and very mad about some fatty in 2024 BTFO'ing your ancient GayFAQs knowledge from 2009, and the insecurity shows. Very weird behavior dude, last reply from me.

>>11893965
>You are barely coherent and very mad about some fatty in 2024 BTFO'ing your ancient GayFAQs knowledge from 2009
is the first result i got from google that time.
>, and the insecurity shows.
i agree, you didn't pointed to the argument i was supposedly attacking btw i wonder why

>Very weird behavior dude, last reply from me.
don't bother reading me either. Whoops too late. don't know why you even responded to me in first place.

>>11880819 (OP)
no, nintendo always goes for halfway decent. Theyre the bare minimum when it comes to game design. Like botw, skyrim influenced weapon system but its dogshit.

>>11893451
>Bombs on cooldown
Get that mmo slop out of here. Besides, BotW is not retro, faggot.

>>11889031
I bet the reason they switched was because they couldn't figure out freezing the water to make ice platforms in Ocarina of Time

>>11895181
Yep. Probably time constraints. Either way, rushing the Ice Arrow after the Forest Temple is super slick. It's *so* nice to be able to one-shot Like-Likes, stop blade traps, etc. They do double damage to anything that can be frozen. I literally just did this:
>Master Sword
>Epona
>Hookshot
>Biggoron's Sword
>Forest Temple
>Iron Boots
>Ice Arrow
>Lens of Truth
>Water Temple
>Fire Arrow (didn't realize you can get these earlier than this)
>Spirit Temple
>Fire Temple
>Shadow Temple (I am here, about to kill Bongo Bongo)
This has been a three heart run and I've got to say, I really like it. Lon Lon Milk goes a long ass way with only three hearts. Many encounters are significantly more dangerous and you gotta watch yourself if you don't wanna backtrack for health. Hearts drop very quickly when you are missing health and there are a lot of secret ways to get health back. Ignoring the heart pieces is really quite refreshing, too. Dark Link was so fucken easy, though. I literally cackled with laughter when I ripped him up in like three hits with Biggoron's. That fucker can suck a dick. Even though I know it trivializes the game, Biggoron's is my favorite. I love that thing. Charged up spin attack is HUMONGOUS. The range is on another level. I love the forward stab, the crouch stab, the back horizontal slash and the jump attack overhead slash. They all feel really good. One day I'll do a three heart-no Biggoron's run just to see how it goes. It will be painful, but I'll probably learn to use some other tools to compensate. Thanks for tuning into my blog, guys. Peace out.

>>11895307
>It's *so* nice to be able to one-shot Like-Likes, stop blade traps, etc.
..I'm supposed to believe that matters to you at this point?

>>11895330
What are you, some kind of nihilist? Have you lost faith in humanity or something? Have you bought into despair? Is it hard to believe real humans use this website or something? Like-Likes are annoying as shit, bruh. I dunno why or how that's even questionable.

>>11882286
Zelda II doesn't have a lot of things
Nobody who isn't a massive faggot cares about Zelda II

>>11895503
NTA, but STFU. If anyone in this thread is a homosexual, it is you because you suck at vidya. Go back to /v/.

They say that knights in the middle ages considered themselves above money, the merchant class was only slightly higher than peasants. A knight basically compelled labor and goods from his people because he was the boss who protected everyone. Kind of like a pimp. This thread kind of reminded me of that

>>11895503
you're going to trigger the Z2 gays but you are completely correct.

>>11895503
too many massive faggots care about zelda 2, but it's still a good game that introduced a lot to the series. only mongoloid tryhards say it's the only/last good zelder or whatever

>>11895307
>>11895469
You're faking it. This ain't your first rodeo, you got the biggoron sword, so the few easily dispatched like-likes in the game aren't worth quickslotting ice arrows.

Like you're trying to convince yourself getting ice arrows early matters in the slightest.

>>11895650
>Like you're trying to convince yourself
Quite the projection, anon. What I'm doing is hardly an intellectual pursuit. Probably the opposite mental gymnastics. It's called having fun, anon. I had a blast popping those fuckers with magical ice. You should try it sometime (the having fun part). What games did you play? Or have you just been shitposting on a Mongolian underwater basketweaving forum all day?

>>11895765
>I had a blast popping those fuckers with magical ice
Next replay you can shoot them with red arrows and giggle and slap your knee

>>11895765
Based funseeker

>>11896427
>you can shoot them with red arrows
>giggle and slap your knee
Is that what you like to do?
Captcha: AMMM0

>>11890435
In the Haunted Wasteland (this is past the Gerudo Fortress) there is a flying carpet salesman. He is to the left just past the river of quick sand. You need the hover boots to reach him or you can get to him with a well timed jump attack midair. It's hard to find him, but he's there. He even has his own sign in front of his shop, too.