Thread 11881639

Was Mega Man X5 rushed? I honestly didn't think about till I reached Sigma's final form, it's just a freaking JPEG. Still a great game but wish it would have been a little more polished overall.

This game is definitely not great

>>11881639 (OP)
It was rushed, yes. Unlike many other shit games though, it had a solid foundation. These days you can find patches for the game that iron out most if not all of the flaws. They exist for X6 and (unbelievably) X7 as well.

For comparison's sake, for many games /vr/ likes to play the "it's good, but" game for, it would be impossible to fix so much with such simple changes, but X5 and X6 get away with, 'cuz it's all they needed, more polish.

>>11881639 (OP)
Not just rushed, but also made on a tight budget. Mega Man as a franchise was at its lowest point for popularity as Resident Evil took its spot and became Capcom's top priority. It didn't help that the arcade scene was also dying out when Capcom was shitting out like 12 different fighting games at the time. Even Inafune thought this was going to be the last Mega Man X game so he made the story what it is and why Mega Man Zero is supposed to be the direct continuation as far as canon is concerned, the only reason it wasn't was because Capcom realized it would be really stupid for them as a brand company to put Mega Man on the shelf.

>>11881678
>ZERO is supposed to be the intended sequel

You mean according to Inafune's headcanon, the same Inafune who couldn't be bothered to actually write a conclusion and just told the devs of X5 to give it an air of finality.

>>11881639 (OP)
>>11881669
Did X4 flop super hard or something? That game had great production values compared to the shit we got in 5 and, god forbid, 6. Was it just lack of interest in 2D games at the time?

>>11881678
>Even Inafune thought this was going to be the last Mega Man X game so he made the story what it is and why Mega Man Zero is supposed to be the direct continuation as far as canon is concerned
This is fake news and Inti Creates entirely came up with Zero's concept/setting on their own, with Aizu having to beg Inafune to allow them to work on the IP again. Inafune's only directive was simply to "close the plot" with X5 as he was working on Legends 2.

Inafune, as history showed us, isn't as good as we thought.

X5, X6 and X8 all work as good closing points for the series. Ultimately the lack of coordination just resulted in several vaguely final endings, but other than Axl existing and getting lost somewhere by the time MMZ happens, nothing of note changed, and we got a solid game out of it in X8.

These days, it shouldn't be hard to make an X9 or ZX3, which are the two good continuation points. Hell you can even do a Z5 with Ciel if you really want, but Capcom showed us that they seem to care the most about classic mm right now.

>>11881701
Inafune's preference for Legends 2 made me wonder if there was an even darker ending planned for X5. There is that unused "Armageddon" track, complete with the Earth and almost everything on it being annihilated. What pockets remain decide to conspire to repopulate and revitalize the planet while leaving a system in place that would prevent such a disaster from ever occuring again.

But then Inti Creates basically injects themselves into the story with Inafune's consent.

>>11881716
You are aware that the dark ending you described doesn't actually contradict MMZ, yes? The poor state of the planet is even a notable plot point by the time of Z4. Human presence is small, things are dystopian. To say they ruined his vision is hilarious when they ended up making the darkest series.

>>11881708
>X5, X6 and X8 all work as good closing points for the series
X8 literally ends with a cliffhanger...

>>11881669
It wasn't just polish, it was deliberate design choices. Most of them were indeed fixed in fan patches, but shit like literal forced MEGAMAN MEGAMAN THERES A GAP THERE! MAKE SURE TO PRESS THE X BUTTON TO JUMP! did not require additional polish to fix. It was equal parts rushed and equal parts just retarded decisions that were thankfully fixable after the fact.

>>11881697
Mega Man was never an amazing seller outside of MM2 and game budgets kept going up, so Resident Evil took over as their main home console franchise in the late 90s.

>>11881669
>i love polished shit hurrr
classic /vr/

>>11881730
>but shit like literal forced MEGAMAN MEGAMAN THERES A GAP THERE! MAKE SURE TO PRESS THE X BUTTON TO JUMP! did not require additional polish to fix.
Which is why X6 is the better game. That, and it doesn't have that god awful submarine level.

>>11881765
X6 is a godawful piece of shit game and the only Mega Man platformer it is better than is X7, that's it

>>11881765
Yup. 6 is still pretty shit, but at its foundation its still a better game than 5.
>>11881770
Nah even 5 is better than 7. It really is the bottom of the sub tank.

>>11881783
>Nah even 5 is better than 7
What I'm trying to say is that X6 is the worst game in the series except for X7. But who cares X5-X7 are all shit games but X5 is still not abysmally bad like the other two

>>11881787
And I'm saying I disagree, and that 5 is not only as bad as the other two, it is worse than 6. Its known as an opinion, anon.

>>11881787
>What I'm trying to say is that X6 is the worst game in the series except for X7
I'd rather play X6 than X2, X3 and X5.

>>11881789
>>11881804
lmao

>>11881639 (OP)
you didn't think that when you had to go through duff mcwhalen's stage? three times if you want 100%? or the bike challenge in squid adler's stage (fucccck those orbs) followed by the slowest sequence in the series? i hate this game. say what you will about x6, at least the levels go by fast.
>>11881678
maybe they shouldn't have introduced like five new characters for one game if it was gonna be the finale. although granted x4 did that too and they all died so maybe it's for best there's not five more in x6.

>>11881836
>say what you will about x6, at least the levels go by fast
The trash compactor stage? The fucking donuts? I like X6 more than X5 too, but come on, it had it's share of turd stages.

>>11881845
NTA but I'd even take the nightmare museum stage over daft mcwhore's brisk aquatic adventure. They couldn't even be bothered to give it an actual theme, and fittingly its just a super shitty regenerating version of the destructible submarine gimmick from X2. On an autoscroller that fills the entire screen. While being as slow as people who defend it. Stuff like MSP's stage can at least be optimized a bit to mitigate some of the suck.

For me, personally, X6 felt a lot like a hard mode of X5. X5 - The Lost Levels or whatever other catchphrase you wanna name it. Same mechanics, some new overpowered abilities and plenty of crazy ass levels and segments.

I thoroughly enjoyed it even unpatched, with the only singular point that pissed me off being that one gate stage with the shitty jumps. Apparnetly i'm in the minority.

>>11881889
I weirdly enjoyed it too, enough to play through it twice in fact, though I fully recognize its many flaws. I think it really does come down to what the other anon said about the foundation being very solid. The mechanics are still fun and satisfying enough despite the bullshit.

>>11881902
The shadow armor was also sick as fuck. Admittedly made the game a lot easier, but stuff like high jumping onto the ceiling to then ceiling dashing to then shoot shurikens downward was the coolest shit we needed more of in the series. That kind of mobility feels so wasted there.

>>11881867
>They couldn't even be bothered to give it an actual theme
They did, it just wasn't used. https://youtu.be/o2v_hPX30vg

I find it surprising that the Mega Man franchise has never been a bestseller. Most of their games are good, and the run-and-gun genre is popular and highly accessible. Not to mention, many of their games were made on modest budgets. The franchise has all the ingredients to be a best seller, but it's stuck in an uncomfortable middle ground between cultural icon and niche series.

>>11881937
>it just wasn't used.
Damn, thats even worse.

>>11881639 (OP)
>it's just a freaking JPEG
Starting with X4, lots of graphics are just lazy renders of 3D models instead of actual pixel art (the comparison with MM85 is brutal).

>>11881649
X5 is worthless as a game.

>>11881639 (OP)
It was rushed but still tried to be a functional, playable product. Should have had a lot more time in the oven and been the final X game for real

>>11881942
Mega Man had some best sellers, just not of the side scrolling kind or on home consoles

>>11881942
Half of the Megaman series was released on then-last gen consoles. Perfect for enthusiasts, terrible for generating hype.
And no, the genre isn't that accessible. Most normies find even the incredibly easy Megaman X to be impossibly hard, to say nothing of the NES games.

>>11881845
>The trash compactor stage? The fucking donuts?
X5 has nothing as good, most boss stages are just barely better than Blaze Heatnix's.

idk bro x5 is just not as good as X, X2, and X4

What's up with the clear "6 is a good game guys" baiting? Not the first time it happens in these threads

>>11882474
is just the usual x-fagging defending this awful series.

>>11881697
Sold well enough to get rereleases (8 too, including Greatest Hits in USA), but not to the level of RE and wasn't enough to justify that same level of production again, or more, at least on X6 they added voice acting to the cutscenes.

>>11882474
The real bait is defending X7. While questionable in design, X6 still offers something decent, 6/10. The culture of the hyperbolic mindset in this shithole is retarded and fuels an even more retarded discussion.

I like the music and the sense of finality it has. As shitty as the execution is.

>>11881639 (OP)
One of the weirder parts about X5 being the intended finale is that there's no real conclusion to the "Dr. Wily is around" idea that's been kicking around since X2. Sigma implies he was his partner for X5, that it was the real Wily appearing before Zero in X4, and Wily probably is the voice telling Zero to destroy X in X5. But that's it.

>>11881942
The genre is unironically more popular now than it was then. The games also did not have cult status.

>>11882474
If you actually read you'd see that no one is actually calling it good. I see one guy saying to patch the game and two saying they enjoyed it -despite it being shit-. Are you the real baiter?

>>11882734
I think at this point, Sigma's partner in X5 got retconned to be Isoc from X6. Capcom's been trying to downplay Wily's role in the X series for a while now.

>>11884635
>Capcom's been trying to downplay Wily's role in the X series for a while now.
The X series has been dormant for 21 years, Capcom doesn't need to downplay anything.

>>11884635
isn't that just wily's mind in a reploid body like serges?

>>11884783
Yeah, it's heavily implied if you are playing as Zero.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR3jRA71DEg

>>11881639 (OP)
Why do zoomers call every bitmap graphic a JPEG now?

>>11881889
X6 is only bad because of nightmares mechanic on levels and the metal shark stage with the crushing floor section. Fix those two issues and it’s a great game. You can cheese it with the spin attack as Zero for infinite iFrames

>>11881639 (OP)
X5 was intended to be the end of the series and has a ton of call backs to original Mega Man series and X series. From the music, level design, bosses, enemies, it’s very poetic and nice for fans of the series. I love X6 too much to consider X5 the end though. Isoc, Hi-Max, and Gate are awesome.

>>11884919
Because they heard someone say it in a YouTube video.

>>11884919
they think is bad quality, when a more correct term is low quality.
It's a funny term though, and good bait

>>11881678
>Capcom realized it would be really stupid for them as a brand company to put Mega Man on the shelf.
haha, yah...

>>11884654
They seem to hate the idea that goofy, cartoony Dr. Wily would ever willingly bring about the apocalypse, so I think the current canon is that the virus was a total accident because Wily did a poor job programming Zero (he only wanted Zero to kill X so he could rub it in Light's face and nothing else).

>>11884783
>>11884854
I think they've just been retconned to Wily fanboys who thought they could finish what he started with Zero.

>>11885472

Wily is dead. Every take that includes him in the X series has him in a robot body or otherwise uploading his mind (to the virus, to a spare body, to a lab, whatever).

It's not him anymore. It's literally the textbook theme of losing your humanity and going mad.

Interestingly: the opposite is explored in MMZ with fellow mad doctor Weil showing just how evil people can be, he specifically points out that he's still human and he has the whole tank thing on his head, so his mind is likely still in there. Zero kills him anyway. Cool moments.

>>11881639 (OP)
Since this is related to the topic, is it me, or your sub-tanks are always empty when you continue a game from Megaman X4 onwards?

>X5 bad
Boring meme.
Best X game

>>11887429
Nah, X6 and X7 mog it but yes it's still one of the best ones

>>11882474
It's very poorly designed but has a lot of soul
I actually think X5 is great though

>>11887430
>X6 and X7 mog it
top fucking kek

X4 was already the perfect MegaMan game, they literally had no idea what else to add to it to make sequels so they kept adding stupid shit
Bless IntiCreates for actually taking the series in a good direction

>>11888124
I disagree. Here's some mechanics that were added after X4 that are genuinely good.

x5: parts, armor sets, character swap
x6: alternate routes + stage variation*
x7: haha (real answer: enemy copying)
x8: modular armor, weapons, bonus content, axl playstyle

*notably done much better in mmz4, which was also after x4, lol

>>11882474
It has a prominent fixup patch that has supplanted the vanilla version in their memory.
That’s why fans should never fix bad games, it risks removing all ability to criticize what it was originally like

>>11888968
This is a shitty take.

Mostly because there aren't that many games that you can really fix like that to begin with. There's nothing to supplant if the original vision was always the same.

>This game is great but it has a lot of issues.
>Oh, they fixed the issues. Now it's just great

This shouldn't be a hot take :/

>>11881639 (OP)
>Was Mega Man X5 rushed?
Is this even a question?

>>11881692
>according to Inafune's headcanon,
Oppose to Shitcom's where they don't even believe none of the games connect to each other and forced 3 more awful X games?

>>11881708
X6 is fanfic as fuck, you don't even need it to connect to any game since it's purpose was to make the timeline a bigger mess than it was now.

Sonic and Mega Man X discussion when not talking about 1-3 (with MMX also 4)
>this garbage game is less shitty than that absolute trash
>no, I disagree, that absolutely abysmal rushed mess is actually the least shitty one

>>11881716
>that unused "Armageddon" track
It was actually used in the JP ending of the game
Also this is actually a ripoff of Aerosmith's IDWMAT

>>11890058
Inti Creates and STI are giant overworshipped hacks

>>11881889
I'm of the opinion that X5 had a better level design than X4 if you remove the duff mcwhalen autoscroller from the equation. The stages on X4 almost never stop you on your tracks to take into the scenery or force you to think how to solve the platforming. 90% of the stages you can dash-jump over everything straight towards the boss-fight, this was clever because X4 shines the best with the boss-fights, so you don't think about the stages as a whole.
X5 fucked it up huge with the boss fights, all the bosses except black devil and the repliforce guy are laughably bad.
X6 improved upon the model of level design of X5 removing the shitty autoscroller, but went overboard in some elements such as the environmental hazards like putting spikes in everything and everywhere, it got absurdly annoying in the last gate stage and they fucked it up entirely with the trash compactor.
On regards to bosses, X6 didn't do much to rectify the bad precedent set by X5.

Do you guys agree that Gate and his level are pretty much the hardest shit in the entire X series?

>>11890181
No, just the most bullshit.

>>11881697
It sold well, more than 1M in psx and at least 300k in Saturn

>>11890174
X4 was designed to be fast as fuck, the level layouts were specifically designed to utilize the speed and mobility that zero's introduction involved. Thats why even when they have sections where you need to slow down, there's usually some way for a power or ability to let you say fuck it and get slowed down less. Its honestly one of the reasons X4 has more universal appeal, its just more fucking fun to play.
X6 had some neat ideas, and some of them worked out ok, while the rest were almost all dogshit. The thing all the dogshit ones have in common is that they impede the flow of gameplay. Even then shit like the crusher in MSP or the avalanches in BW could be worked around to make them less awful, even the doughnuts of doom in BH can be quick killed with the right abilities. A lot of X5's design stops you fucking dead in your tracks. In the case of Alia, literally.
>>11890181
I hate that boss fight but I'm glad it exists, for some reason.

>>11881639 (OP)
It was a huge step back from the previous games. The constant stoppages during levels was also such bullshit.

>>11890181
I can still hear it
GOTOBED

>>11881639 (OP)
Yes which is ironic because it has by far the largest gap between releases.

>>11888124
>X4 was already the perfect MegaMan game,
Its my favorite MM game but nah it still had some slight room for improvement in regards to level design and I also would have preferred being able to swap between Zero and X on the fly rather than them have two separate campaigns. The bosses also get destroyed too hard by the weapons. MMX5 might be a much shittier game but they handled the boss weaknesses better in that game.

X4 clearly should have been the template that X5 built upon but from what I read X5's problems was mostly thanks to Capcom's meddling.

>>11892092
Anyone else remember the theory that X8 tried to retcon Dynamo into being Vile? IIRC, the idea goes that in the Japanese script for X8, Zero references Vile as being a part of the Zero Virus plot in X5.

>>11892165
That's never been substantiated.

>>11892165
Isn't Vile a bit too short? Dynamo being a fair bit bigger than the heroes while vile was on the same level.

>>11892165

More like Dynamo got bored of working for sigma and got a new job, thats why he never returned.

>>11892165
Could simply mean he showed up offscreen

>>11888124
>X4 was already the perfect MegaMan game
This is a bad joke.

So what happened to Axl?

>>11890181
MATE
KOKO DESU
NIGERU KA?

>>11893439
I mean, it wasn't intentional that we don't know.

But hey, you can look at ZXA. They don't bring his name up, but the same copy technology is obviously being used. So...Axl wasn't insane, but Lumine certainly was. His motives were earily similar to Albert's. Add up the X8 ending, what do you get?

Nothing. It's megaman, after all. None of this crap ever gets confirmed, but they knew what they were doing.

>>11893439
People stopped caring.

>>11893604
The character designer of ZXA said that one of the reasons Model A was a "homage" to Axl and not actually him is because of the cliffhanger making it hard to bring him into the ZX series.
That said, apparently Model A's cap in place of a lens was inspired by the cliffhanger leading to the idea of Axl having a similar one to prevent Lumine's infection...

>>11881649
fpbp, X6 is somehow better

>>11893439
He got the bussy virus.

>>11896057
>X6 is somehow better

>>11897554
well holy goddamn

>>11897554
>Just use the armor special attack and oneshots it

>>11897581
I find Zero best for this since his Giga Attack has the most generous hitbox.

>>11897554

See >>11882060.

>>11893439
Died on the way back to his home planet

One of the most retarded game system I have ever seen
>Oh wow lets give players to chip upgrades after they kill the boss
>But let's tie them to a life plus or a useless weapon plus
>Also let's not let the players know what they got until they choose one of the two
>Nah, this isn't bad enough
>Only players who defeated a high level boss will be allowed to pick those
>And a high lvl boss is only available after 8 hours have passed, which btw only advance if you beat a boss or game over on purpose

>Also let's have an obscure ranking system where we punish players for defeating enemies, using the buster to defeat bosses, and let's make sure to add as many dialog boxes as possible to fit well the time limit and of course we will never explain to the players how it actually works.

>And of course, game progress is actually random, it doesn't matter if they actually collected everything or not, we just roll a dice in the end, players love those random elements, right?

>>11897651
Don't forget you can potentially lose your upgraded Zero due to the shitty Enigma's RNG and be forced to do the rest of the game with base armorless X.

>>11897672
Which honestly is viable as I have done it. wish X5 had xtreme mode too

>>11897686
It is viable but it sucks monkey dick. You waste all that time building up your Zero only for the game to take him away from you, and then you can't update jack shit with X as time has passed and you already collected most weapons/upgrades with Zero.

>>11893604
>>11895902
My headcanon is that Albert used Axl's schematics as a base for the creation of Model A. Biometal technology as is might as well be the next step of the next generation reploids

>>11897704
Oh for first time players who would definitely have overwritten their save this was beyond retarded, all because beyond the retarded RNG, they also made the retarded decisions of
>Having you choose between X or Zero at the start screen so they lose their upgrades but still requiring both of them to collect everything anyway (normally)
>Not having either shared power ups or different collectibles for each character
At least naked X can equip more chips, too bad if you didn't lose any hour you only had 2 to choose and you may have gotten useless ones anyway oops

>>11881639 (OP)
X5 is still the deepest disappointment I've ever felt with a game, and I'm convinced the only reason Inafune made it was that he got approval to make a Zero-centric subseries and wanted to sweep X off the stage quickly.

>>11897919
Eh, it's not a bad game anon, but it has flaws. And honestly Inafune had the right idea, after 5 X games it was time to change the formula.

>>11897919
>I'm convinced the only reason Inafune made it was that he got approval to make a Zero-centric subseries
Yeah well, again, he had nothing in mind and Inti Creates approached him/came up with everything, including Zero killing X until Capcom told them that's retarded. Check out this interview for more details. https://www.vg247.com/companions-through-life-and-death-the-story-of-inti-creates-and-mega-man

>>11897995
It's amazing how there is always someone coming with the most edge retarded plot point and the company has to say
>No, we don't want the protagonist of our series becoming a murdered and then getting murdered himself

Evil X really was cool. I feel the problem was not his actual presence in the game, but the retroactive defiling of his role and themes from the x series.

Fighting against your friend turned evil is, seriously, an ageless trope and better than the copy crap we ended up with.

But at the same time, absolutely nothing from the x series hinted at that sort of development, and thus it would be character death.

What IS unfortunate is how pathetically easy fixing the plot would be instead of doing copy X.

>maverick virus is eradicated
>reploids are free people, and sigma's propaganda actually had impact
>pro-reploids are imprisoning/killing humans and anyone who helps them.
>X refuses to act, stuck on the fact that these aren't mavericks anymore, his pacifism actually means something now.
>no one else has the power to stop this, not even zero

Call it a fanfic if you want, but every plot point was taken from things we already know. They could've seriously used this or anything similar instead of what we got.

Then again, might be crying over spilled milk considering Z2 and onward genuinely improved on the plot.