What do you consider to be the retro threshold for games in gen context.

N64/ps1 used to be considered the last gen which I'd consider retro, but seeing a bunch of zoomers now consider 2000s retro with their fake nostalgia, I gotta double take and realize... the ps4 came out like 12 years ago now.

>>11881857 (OP)
I used to be in the "anything past SNES isnt retro", but now I think it all stopped with the PS2/GC gen, always online consoles and games just dont feel the same.

I consider the 7th gen the end of retro. The switch over to consoles having hard drives and games having patches seems like a pretty clear demarcation for how console gaming worked.

>>11881857 (OP)
Back when the board was made retro was considered around 10-20 years ago but it would feel weird to say that GTA V and Minecraft are retro games but it also seems arbitrary to make any specific year the cutoff line. I would say that retro is around 20 years ago and will continue to be an evolving definition as time passes on.

>>11881857 (OP)
>I gotta double take and realize... the ps4 came out like 12 years ago now.
Yeah, but nothing has changed. The entire industry decided going forward they will just copy the same formulas from their favorite 6th gen games for every release.

>>11881857 (OP)
I draw the line 5th gen consoles, because it was early 3D, still experimental. Everything after that is not retro.

>>11881880
This. I definitely feel like GCN/Xbox/PS2 is a transitional gen between old and new

>>11881907
would classic and retro be one in the same?

>>11881857 (OP)
does she do that normally as an idle animation in the game? that's funny lol
i'd say middle of 7th gen, like ds, psp, and maybe wii (at least early wii) are retro for me, but late wii and ps3/360 don't really feel retro

>>11881946
Ya if u stand there long enough.

>(at least early wii) are retro for me, but late wii and ps3/360 don't really feel retro

decent point. feel like the two zelda games on that system kinda show the contrast

>>11881857 (OP)
I think any system that had online services which are shut down are immediately considered retro now

If people want to talk about a 20 year old game whether it's ps1 or psp i say let them and stop trying to backseat moderate

True retro - pre 2000
Quasi retro - like pre 2010? Maybe that's even too much. Pre 2005.

>>11881943
I dont think Im knowledgeable enough to answer, but I would place classic exclusively up to and including 4th gen.

By the way, for the sake of discussions on this board I dont mind that the bar is gradually moved forward to include newer and newer consoles. I simply dont consider the newcomers to be retro, much less classic.

>>11881957
Zoomerfags OUT

>>11881982
Remember being a kid in the early 2000s and the 80s was considered retro and that was a 20 year gap. Feel like the 2000s gotta be retro now considering it’s been 25 years since the beginning of the 21st century

>>11881994
>lives in mom’s basement
>parents divorced
>69 dollars in bank account
>no education

Reeks of millennial rn

>>11881857 (OP)
For me, it's HD graphics. PS2/GC/Xbox era is transitional. Anything past 360 can't be considered retro since barely anything has changed since then stylistically.

N64 can output some very, very nice stuff. Games like Perfect Dark, DK64, and Conker's BFD had real-time lighting in certain places. The 4 Banjo and Zelda games are impressive too. The system was really being held back by the fact cartridges can hold barely any data, and therefore PS1 can dab on it 100x in terms of crazy textures and art. But N64 is obviously a lot more beefy that the PS1.

>>11882062
Yes, but we went from Pacman to Half Life 2 and GTA San Andreas in that time scale.
Even PS1 felt antiquated in the early 2000's. It was like a seven year old console at that point. That's newer than the Switch is from our perspective.

>>11881857 (OP)
My brain and memories still tells me that the only retro gaming stuff was everything from before the nes.

>>11882113
bot post

>>11882075
>Everyone who isn't a zoomer is poor
Zoomerfags OUT

>>11882126
Sorry, should I say something more purposefully retarded? Mayors. Willy. Beltscroller.

for me its the ps1/n64/saturn cut off

>>11882150
It's just waffle with nothing to do with the discussion at hand

>>11881857 (OP)
I'm ok with 6th gen being retro. I'm even ok with ds/psp being discussed here. They feel retro with their intent. I think there should be a name change. Retro by definition will eventually include the switch 2. What we need is a board that represents certain eras in gaming. After gen 6, gaming changed. Everybody knows it, nobody wants it here. /V/ encompasses that energy and they can keep it. The golden era is what gen 6 and below should be called. /Vge/ videogames golden era. That's my solution. Simple and effective./vr/ does and /vge/ blooms in its ashes and piss.

>>11882156
Not really interested in "what is retro??" discussion no. 999999 though. Would rather talk about 5th gen hardware.

>>11882172
Dies*

>>11882174
5th Gen hardware was in a rare period of rapid technological development. From 1990 to 2000, each years progress was staggeringly more powerful than the last year's prime tech. You see this in the 5th Gen line up and pre 5th Gen failed consoles. The sega CD was premium tech. In two years it was obsolete. The jaguar was dead on arrival. One year after the jaguar the Saturn released, then the psx, then the N64 all successively one step above the Saturn in terms of 3d capabilities in general(as far as tech, not proper r&d). The Dreamcast blew everything before it out of the water a few years later. Nothing like this happens anymore.

>>11881857 (OP)
Dreamcast is the last retro console. Xbox 360 is the first modern console. This classification will never change regardless of the age of any device, these are eras it's not based on nostalgia. Only thing that will change is "modern" might get called something else in the future when the current era ends.

>>11881880
This
PS2/GC gen are retro now
and anything before NES (amiga etc.) is boomer retro

>>11882337
>Xbox 360 is the first modern console
There is basically no difference between the 360 and the original xbox besides better graphics.

The latest Playstation console released with a 1:1 re-release of a PS3 game as its big exclusive. The currently played Grand Theft Auto game is on 360. There is nothing at all retro about any of that shit.

>>11881857 (OP)
>fake nostalgia
1997-2001 are all 2000s kids.

>>11882380
There is a lot of difference but it's kind of nuanced. The original had extensive online features for it's time, but all of the stuff that we would associate with modern gaming didn't come along until the 360.

To give an extremely generalized summary, the modern gaming era began on April 3, 2006 when the horse armor was released.

But yeah, you're right, there was paid DLC on the original Xbox like paid maps in Halo 2. If you wanted to argue that the modern gaming era began in 2003 when the first paid console DLC rolled out I wouldn't disagree with you. I would back you up and say that you're correct, but personally I view it more as a transitional era because it seems like most people didn't get online until the 360 (although maybe that's just among people I knew).

>>11882458
I wasn't really considering DLC. I think online play on the Xbox was mostly for Halo and a few other shooters. It was mostly on the Xbox, because it was big on the PC before Microsoft forced all the PC devs to the Xbox. The PS2 and GC had it, but it was barely used at all.

I was thinking about it more from a gameplay standpoint. Pretty much every modern game more or less plays like a handful of 6th gen games. Even the open world stuff plays oddly similar to Wind Waker.

>>11882428
And just because 2000/2001 do not remember the whole decade does not mean they were not primarily children of the 2000s and things do not disappear immediately after they are released.

>>11882337
>Xbox 360 is the first modern console
This is true from a technical, cultural and content standpoint. Basically true in every way except arbitrary age.

Retro is not synonymous with "old", it specifically means in an older style. NES and PS2 are not similar, but they are both retro in the sense that they are both in an older style from modern games. The modern style of game started with the PS3/Xbox 360 era and is still the same style of games that is being made by the big publishers today.

>>11881943
Retro does not simply mean 'old'. It refers to a time where certain traits and characteristics were in vogue, and tied to that specific time. Stuff tied to 60's, 70's, 80's specifically is retro. An antique wooden table is not retro, people still make wooden tables, even if the quality is lower. Beethoven is not retro, 80's synth music was and debatably still is retro, even if it came back into style.
PS2 and PS3 era hit a certain style that is still being done to death today. There are very little retro aspects to examine, and no sign games are moving out of those formulas.
Dreamcast has the most clear end point, for example the camera and controls of Sonic Adventure. Shenmue and 2k games are still being made today and selling (Yakuza and whatever sports games there are).

>>11882518
Technically retro does mean old but the significance of it's age derives from that fact you mention and the differences between old vs modern.

Back in 2005 the NES was considered retro but it was 20 years old, vastly different from the upcoming 360, vastly different from the Xbox and actually was only discontinued in the US for 10 years. In 2025 a modern game is nearly identical to 25 year old Xbox titles like Halo but with better graphics (textures and lighting mostly) and more online unlockable character outfits bullshit plus DLC.

>>11882528
Yes, we are in agreement. I said 'does not simply mean old' as to point to the fact there is further nuance than just being from the past, but perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

>>11882337
>Xbox 360 is the first modern console.
If anything, it's the last console that can be considered retro. Consider:
>initial model was composite-only, and even the E models being produced in 2014 still supported composite
>every game on the console (aside from XBLA shit) let you put the disc into the drive and play without need of an internet connection
>was home to ridiculous amounts of Genesis, Dreamcast and even Saturn ports
It's easy to write the 360 off as muh angry 13 year old screaming nigger and horse armor console because of the culture surrounding its latter years, but try to remember that even the DC and OG Xbox had DLC and online subscription services, and the DC came out in 1998. The PS3 that released a year later was the first console to introduce cancer like online pass codes included in retail games. Hell, I'd argue the Wii is less retro than the 360 despite how much it gets sucked off on this board.

>>11881857 (OP)
My personal cutoff is 1997. 1998 was the first year arcades performed worse than home consoles. 1998 also saw the release of Resident Evil 2, Ocarina of Time, and Metal Gear Solid, each of which did substantial and irreparable damage to the medium. But, frankly, I find the concept of the modern/retro divide to be kind of silly. Discourse should be organized by design philosophy, not release date.

>>11882558
Re2 and MGS provide some of the best 'arcade' fundamentals in gameplay ever, it's not their fault no other devs or even their own companies later on could make this kind of game at that level and just resorted to cutscenes and lore trash.

>>11882563
You don't actually play arcade games.

>>11882558
>My personal cutoff is 1997
This is retarded. Case and point:
>1998 was the first year arcades performed worse than home consoles
By this metric, the mid-late 80s are where retro died because the NES was curbstomping arcades. Not to mention you had shit like Blazing Star coming out in 1998 on the fucking Neo Geo (which was getting releases until 2004 in general).
>1998 also saw the release of Resident Evil 2, Ocarina of Time, and Metal Gear Solid, each of which did substantial and irreparable damage to the medium
Only one of those games did "substantial and irreparable damage to the medium", and it was MGS for being an unironic movie game where 90% of the appeal comes from voiceovers rather than gameplay. There are no mainstream games made today that play like RE2 or OoT. There are no mainstream games that are even remotely similar outside of copying basic, fundamental concepts of movement and interaction.
>But, frankly, I find the concept of the modern/retro divide to be kind of silly. Discourse should be organized by design philosophy, not release date.
Now you've gone full retard. By your logic, the bajillion pixelshit roguelikes on Steam are more "retro" than RE2 or Ocarina of Time despite A) coming out 20+ years after these actual retro games, and largely incorporating gameplay concepts that didn't exist or weren't popular in old days. Your entire post reeks of zoomer grandstanding as an oldfag who thinks 2D games with text boxes means le heckin retro.

>>11882571
>By this metric, the mid-late 80s are where retro died because the NES was curbstomping arcades.
Wrong.

>There are no mainstream games made today that play like RE2 or OoT.
Both still played a major role in the casualization, and increasingly large narrative presence in console action games. Whether or not games that play in a similar fashion to them are still made is irrelevant. Also, it's not like people are making games in a similar fashion to Metal Gear Solid these days, either.

>By your logic, the bajillion pixelshit roguelikes on Steam are more "retro" than RE2 or Ocarina of Time
How you managed to take me suggesting that "the modern/retro divide is silly" as "Dead Cells is more retro than Resident Evil 2" is beyond me.

Here's you're (You). You're not getting another one, retard.

>>11882568
You don't take two seconds to think of where the other person is coming from before replying. The first MGS and RE had a huge focus on balance and replayability and every area and enemy encounter being careful thought out and multiple ways to do everything and do challenge runs in all sorts of ways, etc. These are components shared with many great arcade games, and applied to a different style of game in a masterful way. That in itself didn't kill gaming, it broadened the horizons. Sadly most other people who make games didn't have the same skill, senses or other factors and focused on gimmicks and the 'theatrical' side instead.

there's 90s retro and 2000s retro, It ends with wii which was a generation behind 360/ps3 which are not retro. ds is just n64 and gba, it's retro

7th gen is the transition

>>11882584
>Wrong.
>here's my unsourced graph
Cool bro.
>Both still played a major role in the casualization
By being nothing like the games that exist today?
>and increasingly large narrative presence in console action games.
Have you actually seen the games that come out on consoles today? There's no "narrative presence". Zoomers play fortnite and call of duty and open world slop with a 10 minute story intro followed by an endless sea of collecting mushrooms and herbs to build a dragon dildo. I'd hardly call this "narrative presence".
>Whether or not games that play in a similar fashion to them are still made is irrelevant
Uhhh no, you saying that RE2 and OoT created the cancer we have today while simultaneously saying that games today playing nothing like them is not "made irrelevant". What the fuck are you smoking you fat retard?
>Also, it's not like people are making games in a similar fashion to Metal Gear Solid these days, either.
Brother, you're literally admitting that movieslop from the late 90s isn't even comparable to the garbage made today, and I agree.
>How you managed to take me suggesting that "the modern/retro divide is silly" as "Dead Cells is more retro than Resident Evil 2" is beyond me.
I don't even know what "Dead Cells" is. Dead sperm cells? Like a guy masturbated to a twitch stream and now his sperm cells are dead? I'm going to guess, in good faith, without a quick google search that this is some faggy new game, but I wouldn't know because I don't play that shit.

Here's what's going on: you're positing a random cutoff that defines retro, and then implying that any technological or mechanical innovation beyond said cutoff makes a game le gay zoomer shit and not muh real retro. The problem is that none of the things you hate about modern games are applicable to the games you're criticizing, outside of surface level increases in storytelling that could just as easily be applied to, say, FF1 versus FF3.

>>11882536
I just read the first 2 sentences of your post and chimed in because the whole age vs function thing. I have no idea what is going on ITT.

>>11882507
Technically it means "in an older style without actually being old", like an Arcade1up

This is a data gathering thread for the next rule change lol

im fine with 6th gen and psp/ds. Wii is just a gamecube with waggle so im cool with that. ps360 im iffy tho.

>>11882593
7th gen is way closer to 6th gen than 5th gen is. 6th gen is the transition.

>>11882691
>7th gen is way closer to 6th gen than 5th gen is

No

Some of you really need to replay 6th and 7th games

>>11882695
The 6th gen had more variety than the 7th gen, because the 6th gen was when publishers were deciding which genres lived and which ones died. Almost every single 7th gen game was copying a 6th gen games formula. 6th gen was the transitional period.

I would say PS3 and 360 become retro the day they can't connect to their online services, but we're still a long ways out from that happening so I don't think they'll ever be retro. The style of gameplay they had is just too modern and the politics around game making back then mirror what we see today more than even just 2 years prior to PS3/360 launch.

>another thinly veiled "let's push for 7th gen to be retro" thread

sigh, I swear to god it must be some coordinated attack by some discord group. A group of 20 years old who are in summer vacation from college and who don't know what to do with their life except shitposting.

psx was still experimental, by the ps2 genres were already firmly established and remained largely unchanged to modern day

you wouldn't call a car retro just because it's old if it still looked like cars being actively manufactured today

The reason /vr/ was made in the first place was to have a place to discuss games from 5th gen and below as those threads would be drowned out by 6th and 7th gen threads on /v/. 6th and 7th gen is forever going to be associated with /v/ and if anons really want a seperate place to discuss them, then we are going to need /v2k/

>>11882727
Probably the same people making 1 line shitpost threads.

>>11882741
The 6th gen being added here already drowned out a bunch of threads that were slower.

>>11882543
>every game on the console (aside from XBLA shit) let you put the disc into the drive and play without need of an internet connection
There were a few 360 games where that was not the case, and likewise the majority of physical releases now a days play without a mandatory connection/download.

>>11882771
Exactly, gaming used to be a niche hobby for nerds that liked crunchy number game mechanics and classic design concepts, only hardcore fans with a genuine passion for classic gaming would bother to discuss them. The quality of discussion was comfy.

I miss slow threads, it gives a chance for anons to make well written posts and give time to anons who want to learn more before posting, now you have to spew whatever comes to your mind right away all the time if you want threads you care about to not get buried and archived. There's a soap shoe thread over on /xs/ that has been up since 2021, genuinely impressive. >>>/xs/1409

>>11881857 (OP)
PS2/GC and back is retro to me. Although, the Wii feels pretty retro too, the PS3 just doesn't feel retro to me for some reason.

Retro isn't real. It's basically a marketing term, a faux aesthetic for secondaries, and a midlife crisis hobby.

>>11882860
>the Wii feels pretty retro too

Casual gaming is a modern disease

It will never be Retro

i think that the gamecube xbox and ps2 have more in common with the n64 and ps1 then they do the ps3 and the xbox 360 and the wii. ai also think the GC XB PS2 have more in common with the snes then they do the xbox one and ps4. it seems pretty self evident why people would consider them retro.

>>11882736
>by the ps2 genres were already firmly established and remained largely unchanged to modern day
false premise

>>11881857 (OP)
the worst thing you can say about the 6th gen is that it was a transitional period. mainstream games released through out it are absolutely distinct enough from the modern paradigm to be retro. they were not the exception.

>>11882120
But that’s what we’d call the exponential growth of technology. If you’re comparing it based on the sophistication of technology rather than time passed, that brings up a pretty different point imo

>>11882153
That’s what I’d say too. But in recent years I’m thinking ps2/xbox/gc

>>11882380
I think that really depends on the year of its life cycle

Early Xbox ya, the interface was sooo basic it looked like a more glorified og Xbox. End of Xbox the win 8 looking ui matches similarly to the Xbox one ui enough that I feel like there’s not a clear cutoff

>>11882340
Wow.
Did that actually work?

What if we draw the line at the point when the video game industry became bigger than music and movie industries combined? That probably marked the definitive transition to casualization and homogenization of video games as a whole. This is the estimated date given by Gemini.

For me it's Arcade, once arcades stopped exiting in the west, the retro era stops for me.

>>11883106
retro isn't just time passing. It's a feeling.

GC/PS2 upscaled with modern emulators looks like PS3, but still feels better for reasons I can't put my finger on.

If we disregard mere age, I think the jump to 3d with 5th gen was the seed that lead to the issues we have today and thus retro gaming ended in 4th gen.

Having polygonal graphics at all is what all these years later lead to these 100 GB steam games that need a PC costing as much as a small car to run remotely well.

Last time mods deleted everything after like 5 fucking days.

This time it's obvious they don't give a shit. Someone made a thread complaining about this shit and it was deleted within minutes, meanwhile the "trans" thread is still on

>>11882380
Completely untrue

>>11882458
Yea but most people got those map packs from the disc. Shit the map pack disc is worth more than the game in physical form.

>>11883367
It's not.

>>11883349
>GC/PS2 upscaled with modern emulators looks like PS3
Maybe late PS2 games compared to early PS3 games. Shaders on the PS360 have a distinct look that 6th gen couldn't pull off.

>>11883349
Most 5th gen games were 4th gen games in 3d.

>>11882727
You're fucking seeing things you dumb fuck

>>11883213
You're fucking dumb then.
It takes a simple google search to know better
>imitative of a style, fashion, or design from the recent past.

anything released after 2001 is not retro

>>11883560
It'll be 2050 and you'll still be saying that

>>11882796
>There were a few 360 games where that was not the case
No, there weren't
>likewise the majority of physical releases now a days play without a mandatory connection/download.
Yeah, that's what he was implying retard

>>11883583
then just fucking say it. Don't imply it. Nothing what you said is backed up. You're just saying it.

I consider the line for retro to be between GC/xbox/ps2 and 360/ps3/wii.

This was when the shift towards more corporate game companies really picked up and gaming became way more mainstream. Game design became more safe and profit driven. Trying to appeal to as many people as possible instead of being unique. Ports and multiplats also started becoming standard, making a lot of games feel similiar.

>>11883592
So is retro just based on market and consumer trends now? Since when

>>11883587
He literally said the 360 is retro for reasons such as the fact you don't need an internet connection to play the games. Modern consoles need a connection. Are you legitimately retarded?
>Nothing what you said is backed up
I'm not even the guy you were reaponsing to but everything he said factually true, it's a single google search away. Again, are you retarded?

>>11883603
>reaponsing to
>y can anon never fucking spell

wtf are ppl arguing if retro is based on functionality and requirements of a system anyhow

>>11882796
>the majority of physical releases now a days play without a mandatory connection/download.
LOL no they do not you lying faggot. the only console that has games that can be played offline out of the box is the switch. ps4,5 x1 and the series consoles all use dummy discs that are only good for queuing some 120gb download from a server and have little or no game data on them. even plenty of switch games ship with a download code instead of a cartridge and there's PC that doesn't even have physical releases anymore

>>11883613
Wrong.

https://www.doesitplay.org/

>>11883625
>site doesn't even load
lol
anyway, i'm glad you enjoy playing your switch games and half of Rare Replay but the fact is that 99% of games require internet these days outside of switch cuck games and it's only going to get worse with time

>>11883179
Mostly.

>>11883638
> bitches site doesn't load
>Bitches zoomer fag plays on switch
>copium for I can't afford stable internet and my ISP blocks me from site

Imagine being (you)
Are you brown?

>>11883638
The site works fine, silly goose.

>>11883565
and I would still be correct

>>11883654
Imagine anon not being able to google retro to figure out he's wrong

>>11883613
Fag, i have over 1000 ps4 games and 50 ps5 and every single one of them works fine. In fact, my systems have never even been online once since i hooked them up new out of the box. The only games that have this issue, are trash from garbage publishers(EA,Activision,Microsoft), so if you are repeatedly running into that problem, you should probably figure out by now the culprits causing it and stop wasting your money on their shit. I totally get having a hate boner for modern gaming, but try not to spew out retardation on things you don't even have experience in.

>>11883651
>retarded ESL golem can't even link to a working websire and fails to comprehend the issue being discussed
>still has the audacity to call anyone else brown
look pablo, i'll make this simple for you: there are roughly four major gaming platforms aside from mobile. three of them sell games of which 99% need an internet connection to use or activate, and even the one platform that doesn't still sells most of its games and ships tons of phyical games with online download codes in place of cartridges. this is a fact, bht you're free to keep being retarded if you want.

>>11883668
>over 1000 PS4 games
>every single one can be played without ever connecting to the internet bro
lol

>>11883670
The site works fine, silly goose.

>>11883670
I can open the url just fine. tf u on abt

>>11883661
retro means backwards. anything about products relating to time is subjective and is made up by humans.

>>11883673
Yep. It's pretty sweet. Keep thinking they dont and continue to spread the misinformation, maybe it will make the games even cheaper to grab up. It's a wonder what a little bit of research will do ya when buying something.

>>11883680
So I can subjectively think you are retarded.

Anything which is before and can be copied is considered retro.

>>11882174
Then don’t click the thread? Talk abt ur sht somewhere else then

Simple solution.

>>11883179
Yes

>>11881857 (OP)
Old rules basically had it. Retro is anything pre-2000 basically. At least from a developement standpoint - albeit the 5th gen was starting to delve into modern development styles.
There's rarely a binary to this sort of thing, it's always sort of a gradient over time as development strategies change and developers pick up "what sells".

That if we're using retro as the proper term of 'era', unfortunately retro has two meanings... "retro gaming" means more akin to "Golden Age of Comic Books" than old. PS2 is old, yes, but it's not "Retro Era". It's "Silver Age" Post-Retro/Modern era, which has been more or less situation for the last 25 years. If it will ever stop being "modern era", I dunno... if all games in 20 years were all VR... I'd say yeah that would constitute a new era of gaming post-Modern Era. Again, "Modern Era" has the same problem with naming though.

None of this is to suggest that /vr/ needs to not post past 5th, it makes sense with younger playing less retro era stuff and more older modern consoles that retro era stuff would die out from lack of discourse or disuse as the newer generations come in and they do need a place to discuss games - I'd argue having a vintage gaming board would be more appropriate for "old" games... but it'd cover retro era as well unless rules specified not to, and /vr/ would just stagnate likely.

But yes - people need to learn arguing semantics is fucking necessary. Which is what this is. Because otherwise you talk past one another and no one wants to define what they mean.

>>11883349
>Having polygonal graphics at all is what all these years later lead to these 100 GB steam games
if devs didn't shackle everyone to 4k textures and had install settings most non open world games would be like 20gigs. reasonably in proportion with advancements in storage speeds/size and bandwidth.