Thread 11886374

Mario 64 crawled so Banjo could run (and actually be a fun game)

>>11886374 (OP)
Yep, it's Mario 64 if Mario 64 actually had good level design, competent physics, a functioning camera, charm and humor, and didn't force you to repeat each stage a half dozen times

>>11886374 (OP)
Nintendo isn't going to buy Rare. Let it go

>>11886374 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjYWVia5bAM
Pure Gen X 'tude

>>11886374 (OP)
I really need to finish this game. I've literally only got a couple jiggies left in CCW as well as the notes and I'm playing on N64 with the harsher note system. Just gotta nut up and actually do it but eh. For what it's worth, the other ~90 or so Jiggies I got were all very fun. Rusty Bucket Bay was a lot easier and more fun than everyone I'd seen online make it out to be.

>>11886374 (OP)
And then they ripped off Banjo when making Mario Odyssey.

I don't really care to add anything or engage with the conversation I just wanted to use this opportunity to say every time I try to long jump in SM64 and accidentally slam the floor with my ass instead it makes me want to eat a jar of nails

>>11886374 (OP)
Far too easy and has an ugly Britbong art style.

I actually didn't like BK as much. its physics were too simple, and the de-emphasized focus on pure platforming meant less ability to express skill. Maybe I was just really frustrated with the fact that notes all reset if you die, though - that really put me off in a collectathon, even if I know it was actually due to limitations.

>>11886374 (OP)
>Banjo could run
barely

any progress on a PC port?

What the FUCK is this thing supposed to be?

>>11886374 (OP)
Nah this game is just a big fuzzy ass fever dream. Not rares fault exactly, N64 could do 3d but had shit storage and everything blurry mess. Decent game but Mario is far far far superior.

>>11886374 (OP)
Do you ever think that people at Nintendo (Japan) were really jealous of Rareware, in the 90s/early 2000s? They had so much success.

>>11889597
No, Mario 64 is fucking terrible as a videogame; it's a total slog to play, and its only appeal is exclusively as an autistic toolbox for speedtroons and romhacks.
>absolutely atrocious camera constantly getting stuck on terrain, spazzing out, facing the wrong direction, refusing to go where you want it to
>slippery and inconsistent physics, especially underwater, snow, or on slopes. Not to mention Mario turns like a fucking boat and ricochets off walls like a fucking bouncy ball
>2D Mario's momentum and physics work in a 2D environment where you always have a perfect view and perspective of the action; it's significantly worse in a 3D environment where you are constantly fighting the camera and there are fundamental limitations to perspective/depth perception
>these momentum and physics are especially egregious when the movement is relative to aforementioned awful automatic camera that refuses to go where you want
>constantly boots you out after every star and makes you retread each stage a half dozen times all the way from the beginning of the stage with a tiny stupid piecemeal change
>a dozen frivolous jumps with dial a combo system for platforming is just extra abstraction bullshit that further separates the game from feeling like a natural extension of self
>overall level/enemy/hazard design are extremely basic and boring, mainly as a result of the extremely open-ended movement combined with the dogshit camera
>constant easter egg hunt for random bullshit grows old very quick
>artstyle is just very bland and the whole game lacks charm and character
It feels like a glorified fucking tech demo for 3D movement. As a game, it is just awful.

>>11889597
>the game with the worst camera on earth
>that makes you replay each level 6 times
>with some of the most nonsensical and frustrating physics
>where you turn like a boat, ricochet off walls like a bouncy ball, struggle to walk up a slight incline, and literal invisible walls are scattered throughout levels
>with a dozen different jump variants when all you want is a fucking camera that is actually looking where you're going instead of shoved up Mario's asshole
>is "far far far superior"
What level of Stockholm Syndrome retardation is this?

>>11889630
You think Mario touched him?

>>11886638
And a good thing they did because they're never letting Banjo out of the Microsoft vault again and Yooka Laylee sucks ass.

>>11889584
Indigenous peoples of the Americas

>>11886374 (OP)
Ocarina of Time fumbled in the dark so Banjo could be a fun action-adventure

>>11886374 (OP)
Banjo was never good.

>>11890051
Whoops, thought this was /v/.
Ah well, my statement still stands.

>>11889925
>Ocarina of Time [HEADCANON]

>>11886374 (OP)
Banjo Tooie is better. I will die on this hill and no amount whining about backtracking or levels being huge will change my mind.

>>11890358
I already hated the instances of backtracking in Kazooie so I couldn't imagine how awful Tooie gets. Zero plans to play it. Crazy Rare totally misunderstood what made BK so good

>>11890682
>I've never played this game but I hate it!!!
Man, people on here really are brainless.

>>11889584
Skeletors retarded cousin

>>11890682
iirc BK had exactly one (1) instance of backtracking which is the second race in Freezezy Peak where you need the running shoes

Low effort bait thread, and I like Banjo-Kazooie. Rot in hell, garbage human.

>>11890358
I liked the xboxhueg levels and thought the backtracking mechanic was actually kinda cool even if they did overdo it. The game is somewhat overloaded but otoh it has a great difficulty curve and it's a challenge to find all the jiggies.
However I think it greatly suffered from hardware limitations. I distinctly remember even back in the day noticing the low framerate and low resolution making it difficult to see properly when zoomed out. I also didn't like the FPS levels, maybe it would have been fun as a one-off gimmick but that really annoyed me. Also very disappointed at the missing final level.
BT could use a remake that improves over those minor flaws, if it were remade following the Mario Odyssey lead it would be one of the greatest platformers ever.

I don’t understand people who enjoy banjo more. The mechanics of banjo are just so much stiffer. You can’t even run without unlocking it. Honestly it feels like two completely different games. Banjo you explore and unlock things and mario is just a big playground where you usually just climb to the top. You don’t spend time playing around in levels or jumping off walls for fun in banjo. The games are pretty different in feel.

>>11890682
You can beat Tooie without backtracking once.

>>11886374 (OP)
i would say DK64 was the one that crawled to let banjo be a fun game
SM64 isnt really in the same genre imo

>>11890689
>shits on plate
>ok, but how do you KNOW it's shit without tasting it?
I'm good

>>11890712
Also backtracking every single note if you miss even one or die while collecting them. Also just filling in puzzles then backtracking to the puzzle on the opposite side of the castle.

>>11890358
Another Banjoroid advocator.

Kazooie is an open world game and Tooie is a metroidvania

They're both great

>>11888320
Hit Z before A. Even if you try to press both at the same time, one finger tends to land a little bit sooner than the other.

>>11889584
As much as Rare tries to deny it wasn't he initially designed to be some sort of Jinjo?

>>11890897
Agree they're both great but not sure how you'd consider Kazooie an open world game

Mario 64 ran so banjofags could piss their pants and cry.

>>11886374 (OP)
Banjo is like if you took all of the combos out of a fighting game.

>>11886612
Wow a 32 year old man found a level easier than 9 year old children

>>11890862
>Also backtracking every single note if you miss even one or die while collecting them
lmao git gud

>>11889580
recomp shouldn't be too far off

Banjo Tooie is the work of British madmen. They did not understand their limits and it shows. I think that can be seen as a positive thing in context but I don't think that anyone can argue that it is missing most of Kazooie's key strengths. Having persistent notes removes an entire layer of challenge( fun )from the levels. Having to enter rooms over and over again with puzzles that you can't solve is GAY, especially with no indication; doing this a little bit can be mysterious but ALL THE TIME sucks dick. It's not the backtracking, its the fact that you can never expect to walk into a level and start engaging with it mechanically.

The game treats you like a baby showering you with eggs and feathers so you never have to think about resources but then turns you loose in an absolutely senseless world where you have to keep telling yourself "Huh, I'm sure I'll be able to solve this one... eventually". It's reckless game design without any balance. Again a little bit of obscurity is nice, it adds spice of uncertainty to a game but if you just dump in the whole can it ruins it
Of course you would never know if you watched a playthrough of someone who already knows the game or used a guide.

Kazooie is a fun and reasonable game to play blind

>>11886374 (OP)
Banjo isn't fun. it's proto-DK64, zero focus and too irreverent.

>>11890779
contrarians. remember, Banjo sold like ass when it was new.

>>11890963
It invented the entire genre, Banjo-Kazooie levels are just individual small open worlds. The shift to persistent levels is just proto open worlds

>>11892431
>Menial resources should be hard to obtain and the actual collectibles should be easy
An abominably bad take as expected from a Kazooiefag

>>11893070
Banjo was the 10th best selling game on the entire console, you have brain damage

>>11893080
>Menial resources should be hard to obtain
They should be non trivial to obtain rather than dumped over your head by the bucketload around every corner
>actual collectibles should be easy
The collectables in Kazooie aren't 'easy' but they are arranged on a difficulty gradient towards completing the level in satisfying intervals. Your first run through you find a few obvious challenges and scope out the note locations, your intermediate runs build up towards comprehending each stage and then your final runs involve complete understanding of the level's functions.

Tooie has similar intervals but they're much larger and span multiple levels. I'm not saying you are wrong for liking this but its a bizarre choice which leaves a huge amount of unstimulating gameplay in between. Weird for a 3D platformer collectathon to take after Myst.
Nice try with the reductionist reaction though.

>>11893062
>too irreverent
What the fuck?

>>11893103
>The collectables in Kazooie aren't 'easy'
Retard. They are absolutely easy.
>Literally just climb this set of jumps
>Crouch jump once
>Slam the turtles 4 fins and get a free jiggies for what is normally just opening the door to a puzzle/challenge
Kazooie regularly has instances where there's not enough level to keep making up ways to obtain the jinjo/honeycomb/jiggy and it's just sitting out in the open. You're a fucking moron who can't handle a complicated puzzle

>>11893109
Tooie isn't hard either it just flagrantly disrespects the players time if you don't have a guide

>>11893117
>Needs a guide for puzzles that aren't hard
Brain damage is the only answer then

>>11893128
Sorry I shat on your autistic special interest bucko
Everything I said is true
Tooie is a pretty good alpha stage for a game but they forgot to trim the fat. Koozie is a fine product

>>11893134
>Everything I said was true
You didn't even say anything you just cycled through some Chat GPT esque non points.

Kazooie
>Levels are routinely too small for the 10 jiggy per level rule leading to collectibles out in the open with no challenge or doubled up on, Mumbos Mountain and Bubblegloop swamp are particularly bad about this
>Mumbo tokens are completely unsatisfying, you're buried in them and will never ever run out
>Transformations are all basically the exact same "small access" transformation with small property changes
>2 bosses and Boom box barely counts
>The framework for Open World games, a low brow genre

Tooie
>Levels are sprawling but keep an intelligent design that helps you parse out the differences (The big doors in Mayhem Temple open differently so you can tell them apart, different doorways and areas of Glitter Gulch Mine have different hues to the areas and doorways, every single sky island on cloud cuclooland uses different colors and landmarks, etc)
>The rare true sequel, picks up in content, moveset, and difficulty where the original left off
>Overhaul of collectibles leads to more impactful collectible system, glowbos make unlocking transformations and Mumbo in a stage not free, and note bundles allow notes to be hidden instead of literally dotting the main walkways of the game (for free)
>Invented the groundwork to translate the Metroidvania into 3D which led to the Prime Trilogy and Dark Souls (highbrow games)
>Transformations are actually fun and the game actually has boss fights now

Uh oh stinky

>>11893182
>Levels are routinely too small for the 10 jiggy per level rule leading to collectibles out in the open with no challenge or doubled up on, Mumbos Mountain and Bubblegloop swamp are particularly bad about this
This isn't really a problem. Like I said most levels take about 3 passes give or take to finish them completely (on your first playthrough). Getting easy collectables is good for a casual platformer. It helps with the game's pace. This isn't Gabriel Knight
>Transformations are all basically the exact same "small access" transformation with small property changes
Overstatement and Tooie is quite similar. Look them up and compare them.
>Mumbo tokens are completely unsatisfying, you're buried in them and will never ever run out
So exactly like they did to notes in Tooie- leading to>
>glowbos make unlocking transformations and Mumbo in a stage not free
Dude they are literally inside his hut or behind it 80 percent of the time.

>The framework for Open World games, a low brow genre
>Invented the groundwork to translate the Metroidvania into 3D which led to the Prime Trilogy and Dark Souls (highbrow games)
Please, we are talking about these two games. You can't just pull this out of your ass to credit Tooie.

The shooting and bossfights are an improvement in Tooie I'll give you that. The game's quality isn't unilateral

>>11893201
You being ignorant to something doesn't mean someone pulled something out of your ass.

Tooie was the first game to adapt the interconnected zones and explorative level design/moves are keys design of Metroid and Castlevania in 3D. It's objectively the first game in what would eventually become the framework for the Prime Trilogy and Dark Souls 1

>>11889626
This all might be true, but the fact is Super Mario 64 feels like butter to play. They must have spent all their time perfecting the movement because nothing since then has come even close. Banjo Kazooie is fucking sluggish to play, and it does nothing well except maybe vibes. Platforming is mid, combat is mid, exploration is mid. It's just an okay game. Does not hold up

>>11886374 (OP)
The one with the most sluggish controls ever making you full stop and wait a second before high jumping, that makes you collect all the collectables in the level all over again at the many cheap deaths. The ugly artwork with shit and gunk everywhere and "ork ork" noises.

>>11893541
Yes and all the noises kazooie makes when you jump gets old fucking fast