Thread 11889057

Why they didn't just do the top pic in 3d? No fucking around for rupees and a forced first dungeon before exploring, no stupid fucking around as a deku scrub, no stupid metal gear segment and definitely not whatever the fuck they did with TP.

Why are 3d zeldas such a chore?

Just give me the fucking sword and let me explore.

>>11889057 (OP)
Because that would suck shit and no one wants to work on something so boring and lifeless beyond what they had to.

>>11889059
Jumping straight to the action would be more fun and would give devs more time to work on something actually fun instead boring npc dialogue and gimmick shit you won't see for the rest of the game

>>11889057 (OP)
>Why they didn't just do the top pic in 3d?
They did, but it's not retro.

>>11889063
That's a good game but it doesn't really feels like a 3d zelda anymore

>>11889057 (OP)
Stick with arcade games, autist

>>11889057 (OP)
>Why are 3d zeldas such a chore?
if you find video games to be a chore you need to look inwards.

>>11889074
Z1, Z2, LA, OoA/OoS are not arcade games

>>11889079
OK, go play desert bus

>>11889057 (OP)
Aonuma hates Zelda 1 and has said he never wanted to make a game like it. Octoroks killed him so he gave up playing it and he considers it the hardest game ever made.

because people actually want the stories and cinematic stuff in games now.
Not that I'm saying a game that just throws you into a world and says "go" wouldn't be kind of refreshing at this point.
The closest to that is what? Metroid Prime?

>>11889057 (OP)
Because Zelda 1 takes place in post-apocalyptia, whereas Twilight Princess takes place at the peak of Hyrulean civilization.

>>11889084
Uh, you not been following action rpgs the last decade I take it.

>>11889085
>Zelda 1 takes place in post-apocalyptia
no

>>11889084
>throws you into a world and says "go" wouldn't be kind of refreshing at this point.
>The closest to that is what? Metroid Prime?
Never played TES?

>>11889083
>Aonuma

>>11889091
The most recent TES game is nearly 15 years old, anon.

There is honestly something quite fascinating about how Mario 64 just lets you do whatever you want. And that's the first N64 game.

>>11889084
People literally lose their shit over dark souls which is no story the game and all the elders scrolls game and mine craft

Literally no one likes slow starts even people that like those games always complain about replaying the beginning

>>11889093
Old Band came out just a few years ago and got a DLC recently I think.

>>11889096
It took a while before Kojima would invent the Camera and ruin gaming as we know it

>>11889087
Even knew Zelda insists a little too hard on how hands off and classic inspired it supposedly is. You're still constantly talking to NPCs, and getting cutscenes.

>>11889091
The "go to the town and talk to every motherfucker in the town for three hours" series?

>>11889107
I finished the three big ones and never did that

>>11889057 (OP)
>Just give me the fucking sword and let me explore.
Check out Shadow of the Colossus, it's what 3D Zelda should have been.

>>11889097
People want and expect fun jaunty characters and structured sequences in Zelda at this point. You really can't *just* do Zelda 1 again.
A game where you just wander around a world, and there's like three lines of dialogue in the whole thing, is pretentious art game territory at this point.

>>11889117
>A game where you just wander around a world, and there's like three lines of dialogue in the whole thing, is pretentious art game territory at this point.
Dark Souls

>>11889120
Actually play Dark Souls. It has so much dialogue, and so many characters.

>>11889117
It's literally been done and people love it

>>11889124
Yeah, I said. Metroid Prime.
But Zelda brings with it expectations of a populated world, and more of a structured adventure, since ALTTP. We're never going back to Zelda 1.

>>11889116
>only like 11 enemies which are all bosses and nothing else.
That doesn't sound like fun

>>11889123
I did, it has a cutscene at the start and a starting dungeon but it doesn't has much dialogue or anything like a story

>>11889131
You're supposed to talk to the people you meet, not kill them.

>>11889084
Not really look at switch zeldas

>>11889135
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzNek4MfK5M
Actually play games.

>>11889105
>>11889084
Just play a fucking Dark Souls game already, jfc the retards on this board

>>11889057 (OP)
Play a Fromsoft game

>>11889057 (OP)
okay but what's wrong with having a slow opening? apart from the forced tutorials which were an unfortunate side effect of that era for like 15 years for nintendo games admittedly. it's comfy and lets you get to know the world just as well as zelda 1's, albeit in a different way granted. in tp's case they even let you skip all the cutscenes if you're really that bothered by it.

that said, the slingshot in particular does bother me. you get just to shoot a couple spiders off ladders/vines then you get the wind boomerang which does that but better then you get the bow which is better in every way. i think the only reason it's even in the game is because of the wii port, they wanted to show off you how to aim with the wiimote before it became more important. if that's the case, then they did this way better in skyward sword imo because it's not part of the intro and the slingshot is useful all game.

>>11889141
I've played the entire series. It's not what you're asking for.

>>11889123
>Actually play Dark Souls. It has so much dialogue, and so many characters.
Not in my opinion. Half of them are merchants, probably.

>>11889145
It's literally what the dumbass wants. You just jump in and play. You can ignore 95% of the dialogue or story.

In Zelda 1, there is a randomly dropped powerup that basically says "you win this room for free lol". Strangely, this item never returned in any other Zelda game.

>>11889151
I strongly recall you have to have a conversation with a guy, who hands you the estus flask, just to name one.

>>11889156
You can literally just walk away from him or even just kill him. You're such a fucking disingenuous faggot, I swear to God. By your logic getting the sword with the old guy talking to you is forced dialogue

>>11889156
If that's too much dialogue for you, you can just kill him instead

>>11889154
It's based

>>11889158
Zelda 1 quite literally "just goes", and has about two lines of dialogue in the entire game.
Dark Souls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQabOtbIIvg

>>11889117
>You really can't *just* do Zelda 1 again.

They're a rich company with loads of talent, they can do whatever they want. All it would take to prevent it from hurting the company's or the IP's reputation is the right marketing. Just don't market it to people who would hate it and there's no problem except possibly a loss of money, which would be modest if they developed it sensibly with a focus on mechanics over grand theatrics. The Binding of Isaac, a cheaply developed mechanics-focused game heavily inspired by Zelda 1, has sold like ten million copies. Do you really think Nintendo couldn't have made that as an actual Zelda game, with Zelda elements in place of Christian family trauma and scatology, and generated a substantial profit in the process, if they had only had the idea and the drive and Edmund McMillen had not? Or what if they mimicked the "soulslike" formula or whatever and made a dark, gritty, challenging Zelda game for adults - do you really think that wouldn't do well, as long as they did a good job on it and took care to avoid making casual players or little kids think it was meant for them? Or what about just... an explicit throwback, like Mega Man 10. It can easily be spun positively. These are not highly risky ideas.

>>11889162
>Optional dialogue you can ignore
You're just a lying asshole.

>>11889168
If you want to play the game wrong, you can skip all the dialogue, I guess.

>>11889154
It returns in Zelda Musou.

>make zelda, but roguelite twinstick shooter!
>make zelda, but dark souls clone!
if you want the game to have nothing to do with zelda why does it have to be zelda? If youre hounding for a pure exploration experience with no story then play one, if story doesnt matter then why does the sprite on your screen have to be a green elf boy?

>>11889057 (OP)
>another thinly veiled Barf of the Wanker topic

>>11889057 (OP)
They did that and turns out it's shit, so shit they had to rip a page from Ubishit to keep zoomers from dropping it instantly.
Keep 2D Zelda 2D and keep 3D Zelda 3D.

>>11889154
>Strangely, this item never returned in any other Zelda game.
Next Slopda game will have a full scope of time-altering mechanics along with the environment.
You'll be the hero who has to play God to defeat Ganondorf, who is the satanic Demiurge playing at the moon.

>>11889437
>>make zelda, but roguelite twinstick shooter!
I heard this but for Metroid.

I remember back then people shat on Prime so hard, some pundits came in insisting 3D Metroid should have been closer railshooter like Sin & Punishment even though that game just defeats the whole ethos of Metroid gameplay.

>>11889437
Let the guy be unhappy and complain about a vague imaginary happiness he can never reach

>>11889070
I felt more of the Zelda 1 experience from playing stuff like Conan Exiles and Minecraft, than i did playing the recent modern zeldas, with the exception of the one where you actually play as zelda and is top down.

>>11889123
Why cant zelda do that without an obnoxious tutorial section and railroading?

>>11891007
Other M is what I want for a 3D Metroid, if it was not linear and retarded. 3rd person claustrophobic exploring with an fps mode for precision shooting like what OoT did. It's what i imagined Metroid 64 would have been like.

>>11889057 (OP)
That's BOTW, you're dropped in the world and can go wherever. No forced stuff

>>11891032
It has a whole tutorial section you have to do, and an even bigger, more obnoxious one in its sequel.

>>11889091
That's not Skyrim or Obilvion, right? Don't they have a some crumbs to nudge the player in the direction for story completion?

>>11891025
Because the railroading is a feature of Zelda, not a flaw.

>>11891007
If anything, the only problem I have with Prime is it's a little too on-rails. There should have been more of that game where you just get lost, and have to deal with it.

>>11891046
All of the 3 3d elder scrolls games let you go wherever you want once you pass the tutorial, which is like 5 minutes on morrowind but half hour I'm both Oblivion and Skyrim

All of them just say "hey if you want to follow the main quest go to this town" but you can completely ignore it

>>11889057 (OP)
You got filtered by collecting the first sword in The Legend of Zelda?

>>11891514
Never mind. Learn how to communicate your ideas better, OP.

>>11891518
i think you might have to learn to read before making a post, instead..

>>11891530
No, learn how to write better. Why wouldn't you always be learning how to write better? You're not some kind of retard are you?

>>11891541
do you think i'm op? are your reading skills that shitty? damn son i feel bad for you

>>11891514
OP is just a retard with double standards.

>>11891086
Turn off the hints, dummy. Prime is not even close to being "on-rails".

Bro, you got romhacks keeping and resurrecting classic games alive, you got arcade games still out in select locations, you have indie games galore that try to be to the point most of the time when they aren't sucking their stories off. If you're that upset that games eventually grew something called a "narrative" and aren't just straight to the point gamey action, then you need to prioritize exactly what you are wanting and trying to play.

And if I see another damnable philistine quote John Carmack, your ass is being mounted upon my wall.

>>11889093
>lived long enough to see Skyrim become retro but not allowed per board rules
wild

>>11889129
>Metroid Prime.
Not even close, that game is so regimented to the point of being both a boring slog.

>>11889143
as far as I can tell, the only actual problem comes from explaining what players already know. each Zelda game had an opening section to teach fundamentals, that fans of the series had already picked up on in previous entries. it's largely responsible for the Zelda cycle, as Nintendo got better and better at teaching new players fans got more and more sick of the streamlining and casualization.

>>11889156
I know from today, that Zelda 1 has unskippable dialogue periodically from the oldman, it's not just a one off thing in the beginning.

>>11892136
>>11891007
Metroid became poor no matter which way you look at it. At best it's a sci-fi 3D Zelda in first person.

>>11891030
that game gets a lot of flak, it wasn't quite nearly as bad as I heart it was. you're right if it were more open ended we'd be looking at something more appreciable

>>11891039
Great plateau is a tutorial like child link is a tutorial. goofy ass

>>11891541
>Why wouldn't you always be learning how to write better?
painfully ironic

lttp is the only zelda game worth playing. links awakening has better music though

>>11892253
LTTP isn't even in the top 5 Zelda games ranked objectively. You just think this because it was the first zelda game you beat.

just play Daggerfall.

>>11889154
doesn't the invincibility powerup in the GB (GBC?) ones last for the current screen?

>>11892459
There is no invincibility power-up in Link's Awakening.

>>11891518
>>11891541
You're a retard and should stop posting.

>>11892521
You get those Guardian Acorns, but they only halve the damage for three hits or until you switch maps.

>>11892253
LA is better than AlttP in every way

>>11892243
>moving the goal posts

>>11891030
You want either a 3D beat em up with universal qte like DMC4 or a third person platformer like Mario 64.
Other M is neither of these things together unfortunately.

>>11892246
>that game gets a lot of flak,
Deservingly so
What they made afterwards was just as shit as Other M

>>11891020
Nintendo is trying so much to be like Minecraft/Gmod, it's not even funny.
The playtester game they been doing is basically their own clone of Roblox.

>>11892754
Yeah, at this point Aonuma is just ripping off successful games to sell units. If he had to stand on his own two feet he'd drown for sure.

>>11892595
Agreed. LTTP is fine I guess but it's probably the Zelda I least think about among the big pre SS ones. I even have more of a fondness for the Capcom games.

>>11889057 (OP)
have I got the game for you.

>>11892614
>goal posts
what the fuck are you talking about, retard

>>11889084
>because people actually want the stories and cinematic stuff in games now.
No, I dont.

>>11889059
>Because that would suck shit
A certain 3D Zelda game dispels this

>>11889130
Ocarina's combat isn't fun anyway. It's about exploration and puzzles dude

>>11892525
Triggered Shitpost

>>11893597
I do. It's great when done well. The idea that a game would always have amazing gameplay if it had no story is so laughable when there's metric shit tons of crap from older gens

>>11893648
You don't have fun swinging your sword, dodging around and popping keese out of the sky? What's wrong with you? PTSD or something?

>>11889063
>>11893054
tbf breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom both has a mandatory tutorial in an area that you can't escape from. Still better than most zelda games in that regard.

>>11892457
>completely different type of game
>also has an unskippable tutorial
>linear story progression
I am convinced that half of morrowind's fanbase are just ai

>>11894213
>Brings up Morrowind out of nowhere
??? Daggerfall isn't Morrowind.

>>11894216
i haven't slept in a while and meant daggerfall but you know what I mean. point still stands. This would be like saying someone should play Baldur's Gate because they complain about Skyrim's quest system.

>>11889057 (OP)
it's a young industry and developers are still trying to figure out what works and what doesn't
more complicated than that, players are still trying to figure out what they like and what they don't
no one knows. and there are a million possibilities
the highly polished, cinematic, hand-holding zelda tp was the style at the time
the game we can't mention on /vr/ is closer to what you'r asking for
ironically, by following modern open world slop trends
it is also closer to my preference, but we can still go further
I don't think nintendo will, though

>>11894203
It's funny watching speedruns of these games because the tutorial areas are 90% of the run time kek

>>11894203
ToTK intro tutorial is basically just the game itself in portioned off. It starts you with the sword... then downgrades you to wooden sticks to build up back to sword... The tutorial zone is done pretty well in ToTK, the problem is... the rest of the game is barely different... The four dungeons were okay. But they really really have no idea what they're doing with weapon balance, combat, economy, path diversity, interesting mechanics etc... they just made a bare bones tech engine and just slapped some zelda on it.
It's on the right path, but Nintendo doesn't know how to make good games, haven't for a long long time. I almost wish they actually tried playing the game before releasing it for once.The concept is good the implementation was kind of crap. They need to have like more confidence in their execution and just go all in with that shit. The game felt like it wanted to be Zelda 1 re-imagined so much and came up short.

>>11894524
Also it shows just how much they don't fucking care that they give a shit about patching dupe glitches but never bothered to fix the master sword damage not even working properly. Stopping people from poor grind was more important than one of the most important weapons in the game being shitter from broken code.

>>11894524
Echoes of Wisdom was a far better Zelda game than BotW/TotK and it actually felt closer to the classic games in the series and open exploration, without feeling pointless.

>>11895186
That game is nothing like pre-Aonuma Zelda.

Actual exchange I had with my 5-year-old child while playing a modern JRPG.
>Papa, why aren't you moving?
>I'm reading.
>Reading what?
>Reading what the character is saying.
>But you're playing a game.
>Yes, and characters talk in this game. A lot.
>If you want to read you can also read a book.

>>11895641
That child's name? Albert Einstein.

>>11895641
Tell that little cunt to learn to read before they try and start shit with you.

>>11895623
It offered a far more rewarding experience to exploration than the previous open world games did and actually made me want to explore every section of the map like the older games, since the monster/item copying gave you worthwhile rewards that opened up new ways to play the game. Its the best thing to come out of the franchise in a long time.

>>11895641
Chad child

>>11895641
Give him a smack.

>>11895754
It's made for little girls and it's not retro, anon.

>>11895751
Read a book or a game? Because if it's a game... they could just read a book.

>>11895641
>>Reading what the character is saying
>playing a modern JRPG
Bro what modern JRPG doesn't have voice acting

>>11896873
>He plays JRPGs dubbed

>>11896921
I don't get the appeal of listening to shit you can't understand

>>11889117
>>11889167
They literally just updated art for links awakening and put 60$ pricetag on it
If any big company can do it it's Nintendo considering even if game was shit you have so much rabid funs it would make huge profit

>>11896873
>>11896932
reading is faster than voiceacting, plus your imagination gets to have fun making up your own tone and inflection.
reading w/ english voices is AIDs because your internal reading voice is being constantly tripped up by a shitty anime dub VA making an embarassment out of himself

>>11897032
They did not "just update the art". They remade a GB game in a modern 3D engine, and fixed some of that game's shortcomings, like the cumbersome controls.
Admittedly, it still should have been a budgeted game.

>>11889057 (OP)
Because Ocarina of Time is EVERYTHING to the Zelda franchise now and so every 3D game has to mirror how it did things. Before OoT, Zelda couldn't even beat Yoshi in recognition because everything that wasn't Mario was lumped together as secondary.

>>11897071
>reading w/ english voices is AIDs because your internal reading voice is being constantly tripped up
That's why normal people turn subtitles off...

>>11897157
>normal people turn subtitles off
NTA, but do they? I doubt it, but if it is maybe that's because "normal people" are generally retarded. I'd rather read subtitles than listen to voiceovers that don't match. That's just awful and distracting. Reading subtitles is a perfectly acceptable experience. Pretty much what >>11897071 is saying is true for any enlightened individual.

>>11896873
The JRPG in question was in Japanese at the time (and will still be until next year) and it doesn't have full-voice acting, only a few snippets here and there. Over 95% of the text isn't voiced, sidequests included.

>>11897071
>reading w/ english voices is AIDs
It's also aids in Japanese. Voice acting is a pox upon video games.

>>11889083
How can he make a masterpiece like MM the fuck it up again and again?

>>11897751
If it distracts you, you should turn it off. Duh.

>>11898849
it's not a masterpiece, it's a sloppily thrown together reuse of assets, pretty simple to understand if you're not retarded

How come no one did an Ocarina of Time hack that is just this: Legrnd of Zelda, but 3D?

>>11899221
Like they would have to make 7 original bosses from scratch

>>11898849
He wasn't in charge of MM. He was just on the team.

>>11889090
no cities and barely any people

>>11895641
>>>If you want to read you can also read a book.
"If you want to eat you can always eat grass."
"If you want to play a game you can also play chess."

>>11899485
Nice cherry-picked strawmans, Anon. Maybe use your brain and don't engage in bad faith next time.

>>11899476
Back when Wind Wanker came out, i assumed zelda 1 and 2 took place right after it, since it would depict a semi recent deflooded Hyrule.

>>11899493
yeah that's the point, idiot, your "kid" just happens to be like one of them
man, how ironic that YOU are the one to say to use my brain when you didn't even understand my post
no wonder you think reading in jrpgs is so difficult when the meaning of simple 4chan posts manages to evade you

>>11899512
Lots of angrily made up accusations in your post, maybe it's you that can't read the others. Let's try it this way to see if it works with your brain: Imagine if you had to tons of perfunctory text getting in your way while playing chess. Furthermore, the point of good games is player choices and expression, elements that make them replayable.

>>11899648
>perfunctory text getting in your way while playing chess. Furthermore, the point of good games is player choices and expression
I chose to use a certain character in a SRPG because I liked them.

>>11889057 (OP)
For some weird reason Nintendo kept thinking when people said "they love zelda" that they meant "they fucking love the first hour of ocarina of time where the entire front chunk of the game is a tutorial we need 9 hours of this going forward."

Needless to say, the first games that bucked this ate Nintendo's lunch.

>>11899654
This is called player choice. Anon.

>>11889059
I disagree, op is right. There is entirely too much fluff in most Zelda games. The story is fine the first time you play but only acts as an obnoxious waste of time every other playthrough. Twilight Princess is the biggest offender too.
Exploring is the best part of Zelda, let me get to it sooner.

>>11899654
>>11899678
I made the choice because of the story, anon

>>11899708
>The story is fine the first time
>Exploring is the best part
Exploring is best the first time too

You guys should prefix your criticisms with "i'm an autist who plays the same games for 30 years"

>>11899672
I honestly think most highly of the first hour of a Zelda game. It doesn't matter if it's straight to a dungeon, or laffing around a village. As long as it's good and fun to play. Ocarina of Time? not very fun to play. Twilight Princess? fun to play. Wind Waker? not fun to play. Skyward Sword? fun to play. Just capture an audience in hour one.

>>11899949
>Ocarina of Time? not very fun to play.
>Twilight Princess? fun to play.
>Skyward Sword? fun to play.
How even.

>Just capture an audience in hour one.
You can do this without a retarded 5 hour tutorial with SoL bullshit nobody cares about in lieu of actual freedom and gameplay.

>>11899959
>nobody cares about
the fact that you have probably argued about this game for years proves this isnt true

>>11899959
>nobody cares about
Be quiet, autist

>>11899965
I only argued about this series going to shit thanks to crappy games like this one. No one would care about games like this on its own were it not for the IP/Nintendo brand.

>>11899980
Not an argument. If I wanted any of that then I'd read/watch an actual fun SoL with characters that don't look disgusting.

>>11899987
>No one would care
you really cant be objective can you?

>>11899959
>How even.
Ocarina of Time makes the mistake of requiring fetching your basic equipment, and locking it behind rupees. So you wind up doing repetitive mundane stuff. The first dungeon also isn't something to write home about, being a very simple design with lots of interjections from Navi.

Compare that to the world building and character development of Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess and it's night and day difference. As I mentioned I don't care how quickly I get into a dungeon in Zelda, dungeons are obligatory sacred cows of the franchise. If you're itching to get into one quickly, it's only and always because the stuff outside of them isn't fun to play, no?

here's the beginnings of OoT and TP if you want to ascertain how interesting each one is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi8bfP1f68A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcrsUTGljco

>>11900012
>Compare that to the world building and character development of Skyward Sword
Link & Zelda's budding romance piqued my interest during the intro. Should have had more of that.
TP's intro is stays more relevant throughout the game.

>>11900023
I'm curious if the movie is going to take after Skyward Sword

>>11900028
Groosebros..

>>11900012
>Ocarina of Time makes the mistake of requiring fetching your basic equipment, and locking it behind rupees.
You mean it implements an organic tutorial where you can freely explore the area and find things out on your own. You get a 2 minute intro for setting things up you're immediately given some autonomy to explore Kokiri Forest.

Granted, OoT is still definitely not like the original on NES or even ALTTP. It just isn't as bad as everything that followed until BotW.

>Compare that to the world building and character development of Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess and it's night and day difference.
Unneeded + more text =/= more world building/development. You can employ optional means like the game's manual or an in-game encyclopedia for such purposes instead.

>So you wind up doing repetitive mundane stuff.
That's Twilight Princess, yes.

>dungeons are obligatory sacred cows of the franchise.
Zelda is about exploring things for yourself. You can look at each of the great Zelda games, and they share this in common. TP will say "You must do X now" then mark something on your map, not letting you do anything until you've completed the very specific task it has in mind, and it just continues like this. That is so much weaker than throwing you into a world that you unravel like any of the truly good games.

>If you're itching to get into one quickly, it's only and always because the stuff outside of them isn't fun to play, no?
No, I just want to play a fun game right away instead of the game devs railroading me like a dunce. Also everything in TP in between file creation and Zora's Domain is a slow, linear chore.

>here's the beginnings of OoT and TP if you want to ascertain how interesting each one is
Your TP video is missing the 5 hours of non-gameplay spent hammering the same simple concepts into your head over and over that OoT was able to effectively convey in a matter of minutes, all before even getting to the first dungeon.

>>11899476
Okay…that’s because there was no gameplay purpose for them and there were constraints back then. There is a kingdom of Hyrule mentioned in game and the manual, who do you think makes up the kingdom?

>>11900158
You can sugar coat if if you want, the fact of the matter is that you have to get 40 rupees and buy the shield. It's equal parts barebones and boring, the worst of both worlds.
It's not as good as TP's early game which has a little of everything and has heavy focus on world building and character development. Link in that game feels like he belongs in the setting, connected to the land, and to the other characters. There's so much more detail and polish in all the interactions. The only repetition in the beginning is herding goats twice, and this is a neat minigame, not a barebones obligation.
There's more Zelda games with an introduction segment than not nowadays. Zelda is an adventure game with lots of exploration, but it's silly to discount the reality of things. TP has a lot of good qualities about it. If you like some of the stuff OoT, then you can grow to appreciate TP which fulfills many a unfulfilled promises from the former. The time between starting and entering the first dungeon is not five hours, it's doable in less than an hour and a half. I will reiterate what I said, there's good fun to be had outside of dungeons, and if you're hellbent on entering into dungeons in OoT then that's indicative of the rest of the experience being quite shallow.

>>11900302
the manual also says toads are turned into bricks in smb1

>>11900346
You just explore the town a little (which you should be doing anyway, because it's an adventure game).
There's a red rupee hidden on top of one of the houses, and I think two blue rupees in chests. The rest you can get from cutting grass.
This isn't some kind of arduous bloat. These are things you're going to be doing anyway.
And when you're playing the game for the very first time in the 90's, you're going to spend a while just running around in the forest figuring out what you can do anyway. Cutting grass, throwing rocks, talking to all of the NPCs.

>>11900426
>japanese people call the mushroom people "toads" because they know toadstool is a term for a mushroom and they know shortening words is a typical english thing, but don't actually know what it means, so you're calling a mushroom a toad
I hate this shit

>>11900509
wtf my mind is blown

>>11900509
You'll love Korea where they merge two halves of random English words and use that to refer to something completely unrelated.

>>11900426
Just the ones that give you power ups.

>>11900465
You have full access to the Lost Woods, too. That means you can fight a Wolfos like 5 minutes into the game. I think that's pretty fuggin' cool. The moment you get the Kokiri Sword you can map out the Lost Woods at your leisure and you've already gotten about 10-15 rupees from running through grass and such. Heck, you can even go to the Deku Scrub at the entry bridge to the forest and pay for a Deku Stick upgrade. It's quite natural to come up with 40 rupees by just playing the game. That dummy you're responding to probably knows how to do one thing: run in and out of the shop to hop platforms repeatedly for the blue rupee. He's probably certifiably retarded. Anyway, the argument that OoT's intro sucks because you have to raise some cash to buy a shield is lunacy. It is a great way to start. You quickly get your sword and shield, which is what's important. The Deku Tree dungeon is a solid showing, too. It gets style points for not just being a tree, but a giant tree that speaks in old English. It has a variety of obstacles & puzzles, it has a great set of enemies (all perfect for little boy Link on his first dungeon), the slingshot is literally perfect and it gracefully prepares you for the rest of the game. Ghoma's hatchlings falling from the ceiling are on point. Just like the jump through the web. The Deku Scrubs playing their games with you lightens the mood and adds a bit of classical style dungeon crawl. Ghoma herself is scary as shit. They even plant a bombable wall to give those with a perceptive eye a secret to return to. They just nailed the start of that game. Every once in awhile you run across people with no palette. You could feed them fine food, show them magnificent sights and play them beautiful music and they wouldn't like it because their palette is literally nonexistent. If it doesn't taste, look or sound like their typical slop, then they don't like it and that's that.

>>11900523
>You'll love Korea where they merge two halves of random English words and use that to refer to something completely unrelated.
Americans do that all the time.
"Microaggressions"
"Trans women"
"Allyship"
"People of Color"
"Intersectionality"

>>11900573
Except... those words are all related to the words... do you not understand that words have meaning?

Like micro aggressions means... small aggressions... it's related to size and aggressions.

Transwomen is related to "across" and women in that it's women who are "across" from their gender spectrum... like both words literally mean the things they're saying.Not a portmeanteu either.

People of Color isn't even a portmanteau, it's fucking phrase... and it's exactly what the phrase is.

Intersectionality - inter, as in intersection and ality... this one also not a fucking portmanteu - literally it's just a fucking being characterized by intersection - the word as defined by how grammar rules work for roots and suffix... you're literally complaining english words aren't english wordy enough for english by being words. Like holy shit you're shit you're stupid.

>>11889057 (OP)
>>11899708
Yeah, but isn't that just what games were like in the 2000s? They give you a slow burn introduction into the world to make you feel like you're really living in it.

I tried playing Wind Waker again recently and the amount of dialogue you had to thumb through to get to the gameplay was intolerable, but maybe I'm just not ready to be invested in that world again, there wouldn't be much point in playing a game like Ico or Shadow of the Colossus if you were just going to tear through it at maximum speed while ignoring the story. You can do that with pretty much any 2D Zelda, but I wanna say the 3D Zeldas are an experience to be savored, not just for the raw gameplay. Wait a few years until you've forgotten most of it, then try again.

>>11900616
Sounds like a bunch of faggot shit

>>11900639
>Wait a few years until you've forgotten most of it, then try again.
Indeed, that's the way to do it. WW's intro is way too long, tho. I agree with you on that. Intros got increasingly longer game by game from OoT. It's actually kind of comical how they each added about the same amount of time cumulatively.

>>11900645
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmTgpsvkqt8

>>11900570
>That means you can fight a Wolfos like 5 minutes into the game.
You're conflating how quick you're dungeoneering and fighting for how much fun a game is to play. Why would I want to rush these things when it's 90+ % of the games overall content. It's why I brought up before that this mad dash to things really emphasizes how disinteresting everything else is. Dungeons, combat, dungeons, combat. Twilight Princess has excellent sense of place, and the unique characters with all their scenes, it's quite nice.

>>11900573
Normal people don't use those words.

>>11900962
>dungeoneering
>rush
>mad dash
Explain to me how finding the Wolfos in the Forest Meadow is a dungeoneering mad dash rush.

>>11901041
check out how much stuff there is to do when you start Twilight Princess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znT13q6M6hU?t=2412

I think people who use talking points like "you can get into the first dungeon in minutes" or "you can fight a wolfos in minutes" are entirely too focused on one thing and missing the forest for the trees. There's so much variety when you begin TP by comparison. The game is longer than OoT, and it takes time building the setting to immerse you in. All you gotta do is lean into it and allow yourself to be engaged.

>>11901156
>too focused on one thing and missing the forest for the trees
It's necessary for their argument. The "tutorial takes 5 hours" autist isn't just stupid, he's dishonest.

>>11901176
I suppose that is the case for him. There's so much I could talk about TP for feeling like it has stakes, and how it rightfully feels like an epic journey, how characters you meet aren't one note interactions and how they tie into the overarching narrative. It just seems so wrong to worship OoT like it's perfect and to hold the going into the dungeon in five minutes as if it has any more merit then getting the game over sooner. There's stuff in Ocarina of Time where I craved more impact from my actions. Twilight Princess delivers stuff like Zora Domain thawing out, and that has gameplay purposes beyond the sentiment as well.

>>11901202
I agree. TP was pretty much what I hoped would come after OoT.

I also think OoT doesn't need to be propped up with dishonestly putting down other games, and the anti-TP trolling is getting boring.

>>11901223
>I also think OoT doesn't need to be propped up with dishonestly putting down other games
its not dishonesty people actually get a bug in their brains where they have to fight with games that are basically identical. Its an easy IQ test when you come across people that hate one but love the other.

>>11894524
> but Nintendo doesn't know how to make good games
lol

>>11889057 (OP)
yah idk
they had it right the first time
and arguably the second time, tho thats a bit more linear. still just lets you go wherever tf you can get to, even if its a bad idea
for 3 it made sense, they wanted that dramatic villain shift after the 3 amulet dungeons. you can only do that if the back half of the game is locked. afterwards it just became mostly linear. theres a bit of options in OoT, but its minimal

>>11901223
It's like OOT, if they made everything easier and more boring, and stripped all of the charm out of it in favour of murky grey-brown mid-00's edge.

>>11901776
it's because you didn't beg your mama to buy wind waker, gramps

>>11901776
The game has a lot of charm

>>11901818
I think he means "childhood memories"

>>11889057 (OP)
>3D Zelda
Aonuma hijack.

>>11900616
Good post although “ Not a portmeanteu either” isn’t correct for Transwoman as it, presumably, means Transgender Woman. Which is nonsense.

>>11901156
I really liked the dungeons in TP, but I remember nothing of the overworld. I just recall being shuffled off between regions. Even in OoT i can atleast recall exploring around Hyrule Field.

>>11902008
thats such an interesting thing, because you could say a transgender woman is an actual woman who has gone trans to become a man and technically it is correct. then, there is the transgender woman, who is a man that is larping as a woman. which is what the neoteric lexicon accepts as the preferred context. the multibiguity of the undefined ideology that permeates this psyop causes disastrous trauma in those that are fed the brain slug.

>>11902042
>you could say a transgender woman is an actual woman who has gone trans to become a man and technically it is correct. then, there is the transgender woman, who is a man that is larping as a woman. which is what the neoteric lexicon accepts as the preferred context.
NTA, but this always tripped me up a lot until I started remembering to think "trans = not" when applied to gender. So "transwoman" = "notwoman" and "transman" = "notman." Once I started thinking that way, I stopped being confused every time.

>>11902057
kek, thats great. simple and effective

>>11902014
Well the opening sections has a lot of variety to it, there's exploring the village getting the slingshot, there's fighting through the woods and getting the lantern for the cave. Later on after dungeon one, there's hunting the tears of light when transformed as a wolf, there's also the horseback battles in hyrule field, there's time to hunt down collectibles and explore more lantern caves when returning to ordon to obtain iron boots before dungeon two. ect. the game opens up a lot more after each subsequent dungeon, I really like the pacing. the world is much larger than OoT, and it could feel overwhelming if too much was open immediately.

>>11902351
You can also get a second bottle before the first dungeon. And fish.

>>11901156
When I start my action adventure game I want to be able to start doing that right off the bat. I don't like it when I get blocked trying to do the thing I'm playing the game for. Story *reasons* doesn't cut it. That's stupid. A good story doesn't need to cockblock you. It's just stupid to make me run around as a swordless peasant for a couple hours while you "set the stage". These are action adventure games, not sims, dude. You can "set the stage" while I have my basic adventuring tools (sword & shield) and you probably won't get any complaints from me about it unless you block me from actually exploring the world, which is something that TP does. It's also something that WW does.

>>11901223
>OoT doesn't need to be propped up with dishonestly putting down other games, and the anti-TP trolling is getting boring.
You need to be 18 to post here. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of TP. To act like your favorite's shit don't stink is laughable and childish. To even begin to engage in a "my favorite is better than yours" is elementary.

>>11902351
>it could feel overwhelming if too much was open immediately.
That is fake and gay.

>>11902521
Not even Ocarina of Time is completely open to explore immediately. The difference I'm discussing is that Twilight Princess is much bigger.

>>11889057 (OP)
Because some of us actually care about the experience, the vibes, and the story. Buildup and slow burn.

I'm sorry you're so attention-deficit that you play games for the same reason a rat pushes a button to get food. I truly am.

>>11902351
You're talking about TP here? The game where you have to do an entire fucking demonstration for three down syndrome kids, just so the game can be sure that holding a button and aiming isn't too mentally strenuous for you?

That game is just painfully average and a complete chore to play, and it pretty much does nothing meaningful better than OoT. The story is a complete mess, the game offers no challenge whatsoever in general, the overworld is somehow worse than the N64 games, pretty much every single dungeon is effectively a linear corridor where it's impossible to get lost in with any need to think. Half of the items you find in dungeons are all but useless outside of one or two instances in the overworld before being discarded. The beauty of the game's world is often betrayed by some of the most disgustingly terrible character designs imaginable. The size of its world is undermined by the lack of things to discover within it.

All TP did was take the OoT formula and streamline it to the point where there was no sense of adventure left. You have no freedom whatsoever. You are funneled from one set piece to the next; there's zero exploration or non-linearity in between aside from grottos and caves that every single time, without fail, only have 50-100 rupees or a heart piece inside them. Every item you have, the game leads you to. Nothing is optional; nothing can be done out of order. There is no real adventure to be had; the game just railroads you into the same movieshit cutscenes and setpieces over and over. You're basically just watching a discount Ghibli movie with cinematography so bad that sometimes it actually comes across as satire.

And let's not even forget the bug hunting and wolf sections.

>>11889057 (OP)
Padding was half the point with TP, they were deliberately trying to make "The Biggest Zelda Adventure of All Time" as the back cover reads.

>>11902562
Autist seethes about TP
Episode 63

>>11902613
aw schweet
my favorite episode

I don't care what anyone says, TP has Link's best design. He's never looked or sounded cooler. Nintendo actually chose his VA based on how many women got wet upon hearing it (true story, look it up).

I want Nintendo to try doing a gothic semi-realistic style for Zelda again. We're at the point where it won't look immediately outdated come next generation anymore.

>>11902632
>I want Nintendo to try doing a gothic semi-realistic style for Zelda again
Now would be a perfect time, with switch kids grown up and wanting something mature, while the earlier entries still hold up for younger audiences too.

>>11902525
>Not even Ocarina of Time is completely open to explore immediately.
Never said it was. I said it gives you a sword and shield and lets you fight very early. That's what I like. Also, the intro period in OoT is substantially smaller than MM, WW and TP, so you are free to explore very quickly. TP does what I hate. It keeps you swordless and shieldless for way too long and it blocks your exploration for a pretty damn long time. The camera and controls also regressed, but that's another matter. Absolutely do not try to argue the time you are blocked from exploring should be proportional to how big the world is because that would be exceedingly retarded.

>>11902653
>gimme the sword!! i wanna hit stuff!! stop talking and give me the sword!! I DUN WANNA!! GIMME THE SWOOOOOOOORD!! AWWWWW HAW HAW

>>11902668
>>gimme the sword!! i wanna hit stuff!! stop talking and give me the sword!
Aaaand there goes your argument and credibility. What's funny is you think this is worthy of mockery. As if the action adventure enjoyer plays his action adventure games to run around and play ranch hand. Like I said, if you wanna play a sim, action adventure isn't your genre. It's really quite telling that TP is apparently your favorite. Why don't you just stick to the Sims or something?

>>11902728
The guy thats devoted to adventure gets angry and upset when he isnt given exactly what he wants from a game. Its really quite poetic.

>>11902947
>action adventure fan doesn't like it when the game isn't action adventure
Okay?

>>11889057 (OP)
Zelda 1 is a kid playing in the backyard

Twilight Princess is the hero's journey.

>>11902970
nah omit adventure from your title, you cant handle it

>>11903821
>wrestling goats on a tiny farm = adventure

this was so kino, who remember Nintendo Power?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arEIvz_TaE4

>>11904205
I watched this trailer countless times when it first came out. I don't think any Zelda game release ever got me as excited as Twilight Princess, before or since.

>>11904205
I still have some british magazine's preview dvd and a poster
>>11904302
Motion controls were intriguing, but by the time SS came out I wasn't into gaming right then. Watercolor aesthetics look good, but I wanted something mature. SS was taking a step back.

>>11903821
>grasping at straws

>>11889057 (OP)
>Why are 3d zeldas such a chore?
Because 2D Zeldas from LA onward were doing the same shit and just as much of a chore.

>>11904367
Lolwut? Alttp and MC are the only 2d zeldas with low starts
>forced dungeon
>long ass story bullshit
The GBC trio did it perfectly

>>11904429
LA and the Oracle games were slower than ALttP. Especially the Oracle games, i don't think I ever even got to the first dungeon in those before turning them off.

>>11904429
>GBC trio
Link's Awakening is a GB game. The Downgrade eXtreme version doesn't count.

>>11889057 (OP)
>Just give me the fucking sword and let me explore.
Cause that'd just be Dark Souls

>>11904469
I prefer the version with color
>>11904464
I would rather have to explore a bit before the first dungeon than being forced immediately into one before i can do anything, the only bad thing about how the oracles start is the whole "talk to every npc in this screen" bullshit

>>11904496
>I prefer the version with color
That's okay, you're allowed to have shit taste.

>>11904503
>boohoo they added stuff and fixed a bug
Yes, I prefer improvements

>>11904506
Wow! This looks pretty heavy!
You won't be able to lift it
with just your bare hands
Wow! This looks pretty heavy!
You won't be able to lift it
with just your bare hands
Wow! This looks pretty heavy!
You won't be able to lift it
with just your bare hands
Wow! This looks pretty heavy!
You won't be able to lift it
with just your bare hands
Wow! This looks pretty heavy!
You won't be able to lift it
with just your bare hands

>>11904520
Stop trying lift up heavy things brainlet

>>11904496
I prefer getting into the dungeons rather than slogging through nonsense. The dungeons are the best parts of these games.

>>11904530
>dungeons are the best part
Hard disagree, dungeons only get good around the fourth or fifth one, the overworld is easily the best part of any Zelda game

>>11904523
>stop accidentally brushing against these objects that are scattered all around the map and frequently have just 1 block of space to get around them

Even if twilight princess still took a while to get to the first dungeon, it sure would be nice if the game wasn't dragging you by your nose and making you sit through cutscenes and annoying children the entire time. It's really not as if it's a "explore at your own leisure" deal. You're running through tutorials, story sequences, mini-games and cutscenes for like a solid hour or so until the game really cuts you loose.

>>11904530
This. They need to do for dungeons what the recent games did for the overworld.

>>11904530
>The dungeons are the best parts of these games.
No, they're the parts where you put the fun adventure on hold and do your chores so you can get back to adventuring.

>>11904707
>do your chores
This might be a good argument if zelda games didn't progressively begin locking you out parts of the overworld until you beat dungeons or story sequences happen. You are locked out of exploring a lot of the time

>>11904690
>less content pls

>>11904720
Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time did so much damage to this series

>>11904720
>This might be a good argument if zelda games didn't progressively begin locking you out parts of the overworld until you beat dungeons or story sequences happen
That's exactly why it's akin to being stopped and made to do chores. The dungeons aren't very fun, but you HAVE to do them because progression in the fun parts gets locked behind doing the dungeons.

>>11904731
Less bad content. More good content. Simple.

OoT is the only one that did it right. Zelda 1 gets boring as shit because the game is "open" but has a shitty tiny world with identical dungeons and is just a directionless, meandering experience. Not to mention it's actually a lot more item-gated than people lead you to believe.

The other side of the coin are games like WW and TP that railroad the fuck out of you and drag on for hours and fucking hours with braindead tutorials and dumb story exposition that nobody cares about. OoT says, "here's your 2 minute opening cutscene, now go explore". You get to wander around a little bit, you get your sword and shield, and then you're off to the first dungeon 10 minutes later.

After that, you have the majority of the overworld open to you right then and there. You can go fishing, fight some enemies, collect a few heartpieces/skulltulas, play some minigames etc., before even meeting Zelda. After that, you play through two more short dungeons while the world grows a bit more, and then Link becomes an adult and the entire world is open to you. You can can play the dungeons in a bunch of different orders and there's tons of side quests and activities to do if you grow tired of the dungeon grind, but you're never just left completely clueless because there's always a main objective and a dangling carrot to keep things moving along. OoT has the perfect balance. It gently eases you into freedom, and then reigns you back in once in awhile. Future games other than MM fucked this up and turned the entire experience into an A-Z linear checklist of chores with no freedom.

>>11904707
The chores are all the bullshit you have to do before getting to have fun in the dungeons. Its why MM is the worst game, fucking nothing but chores for 90% of it.

>>11904736
The dungeons are the parts of the game where you have to focus on some kind of challenge, as opposed to dicking around in the world, playing mini games, and talking to NPCS.
The fact that there's that balance between the two sides of the game is core to the Zelda formula. If you don't get it, you don't get it. Dunno what to tell you.
Play Harvest Moon, maybe.

>>11904762
I feel the opposite, MM is the most fun one because it has the fewest and shortest dungeons and lets you have more of the fun parts.

>>11904736
>The dungeons aren't very fun, but you HAVE to do them because progression in the fun parts gets locked behind doing the dungeons.
And because dungeons advance the story. That's what I kept looking forward to. Like meeting Saria in the forest temple.

Thankfully TP brought the story to the outside world too, not confined to dungeons anymore.

>>11904793
There's nothing fun about walking around an empty overworld talking to npcs and occasionally finding holes in the ground.

Ocarina of Time is so overrated it's ridiculous

>>11904810
OOT has a tonne of story that happens in the overworld.

>>11904814
>walking around an empty overworld talking to npcs and occasionally finding holes in the ground.
Which zelda game are we talking about, again? That could describe several of them

>>11904824
ah yes, Impa pointing to death mountain and saying go do dungeon
and Impa & Zelda riding away on horseback, many 'a fun story

>>11904820
these days, it's underrated.
People have the most absurd criticisms of OOT. Everything from "Navi is annoying" to "the game made me sit through a three minute cutscene. Game bad!" to "the controls are some kind of unplayable jank, even though everything works and does what it's supposed to do".

>>11904814
>there's nothing fun about exploring and adventuring in a strange new world

>>11904707
>exploring and solving dungeons isnt adventuring

>these days, it's underrated.
actual cancerous human bean

>>11904843
It's not, it's puzzle solving.

>>11904843
>you see that block? you can push it

>>11904838
Breaking into Hyrule castle. Freeing Epona from the ranch. Escaping from Gerudo prison. Dampe the gravekeeper.
There are a dozen really good memorable scripted sequences.

>>11904839
>Navi is annoying
HEY LISTEN, stand next to door press A to open it.

>>11904845
It's true. Growing consensus in online gamer spaces is that OOT is actually bad.

>>11904839
>the game made me sit through a three minute cutscene.
two hours of the game is cutscenes, the game is eight hours long. do the math

>>11904852
>Dampe the gravekeeper
ooooh dampe the gravedigger with his hookshotty, the immensity of the stories!!

>>11904854
>it tells you how to open a door the first time you encounter a door, and then never again
Wow, that's SO annoying.

>>11904857
>OOT is actually bad.
It was great for its time

>>11904857
keep growing

>>11904858
Maybe if you consider every dialogue interaction a cutscene.
Zelda is always going to have people talking in it. It's supposed to have that.

>>11904863
HEY LISTEN, stand on a switch to press it.

>>11904869
That is goal post moving, why would you not include dialogue for what purpose. The point was that you get interrupted with unskippable shit. When you defeat a boss and have a bunch of unskippable shit, YEAH.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66jojNpV8Vo

>>11904834
Literally all of them. I've grown to realize Zelda is a 6/10 series.

>>11904852
Those are confined to locations too.. I can't remember anything that happens across the world

>>11904870
It's not unreasonable for a game to have some modest tutorial elements.
Have you played video games? In MGS they stop you every two feet to explain how the save system works, or that the ground has landmines, or some shit. In Call of Duty, you have a guy in your ear the whole time telling you to shoot the targets, in case you couldn't figure that out.
You're going out of your way to pretend Navi is really annoying, when she isn't actually.

>>11904872
I like those parts. The game has good cutscenes. It's a feature.
The point is, at no part are they ever overbearing or unwarranted.

>>11904876
The locations are in the world?

>>11904842
There's nothing rewarding you for exploring 99% of the time, you either get a dumb piece of heart which does nothing until you collect 4 and isn't very necessary anyways cause the games are easy as shit, or you get another 50 rupees for you to throw out because your wallet is always maxed out and there's literally nothing to spend it on beyond like 2 items max per game.

>>11904892
>but the rewards!
Do you really get no joy from the mere act of exploring and navigating and unfamiliar place?

>>11904901
If I did, I would be hiking, exploring caves or deep sea diving, not playing video games.
The joy of exploring comes from what you might find, if you consistently find nothing, there's no more joy in exploring.

>>11904892
>There's nothing rewarding you for exploring 99% of the time,
Not retro, but of all the Zelda games I have played (the entire franchise), Echoes of Wisdom has felt the most rewarding as far as its quantity of actual useful things to discover that you can re-use, in comparison to the size of the world map you will traverse to discover these new things. Plus the fact these things you find, helps you access more of the map to explore, while never being locked behind a specific dungeon requirement. Im pretty certain you can explore 99% of the world map as soon as you beat the intro dungeon, assuming you find the right tools while exploring overworld.

>>11904889
As are dungeons. In TP people are less stationary, they travel around hyrule, and story happens even in the fields.

>>11904921
Hyrule field is only part of the overworld. I don't know why people are so stuck on this idea that Hyrule field is the "world" in OOT. They almost didn't even put it in the game.

>>11904927
>Hyrule field is only part of the overworld.
An important part, since it connects the world.

>>11904952
it's basically a middle hub that they made big, so they could show off a little, and give you an area to ride the horse. It is very much one of the weaker parts of the game, admittedly.
Saying no story sequences happen in the overworld is a lie, when a whole tonne of stuff happens in the forest, Hyrule Castle, the village, the mountain, Zora's Domain, and the desert, however.

>>11904984
Confined to those locations, disconnected from the rest of the world

>>11905001
Those are parts of the world though. The world does not begin and end in Hyrule field.

>>11905019
>Those are parts of the world though
Yes, as are dungeons.
>The world does not begin and end in Hyrule field.
No one said it was.

>>11905027
The distinction in Zelda games is between overworld and dungeon.
Not between field and town.
If it wasn't for the necessity of loading areas, it would all be a seamless world anyway.

>>11905029
>The distinction in Zelda games is between overworld and dungeon.
Really now. You don't consider towns separate from wilderness?

>>11904882
HEY LISTEN, the dangling tentacles in this room correspond with the ones in the other room.

>>11904882
>In Call of Duty, you have a guy
>so actually navi isn't annoying!

>>11895641
That kid knows what a real game is

>>11904473
Dark Souls is the true successor to NES Zelda games.

>>11909178
It's Zelda for adults

>>11909204
It's Zelda, period.

>>11889057 (OP)
Not retro, but 3d dot hero is exactly that.
Upgraded swords look rediculously large in an old zelda setting. Good times. One of the more underrated games from Fromsoft.

>>11909214
Zelda is for kids

>>11904882
RAMIREZ DO SOMETHING is just as annoying as Navi though

>>11895641
Based Kid

Video GAMES should prioritize the GAME part. Immersion moviegame faggots need to fuck off from the hobby and die. Go immerse yourself in a vat of acid.

>>11909276
Edgy boy

>>11909224
Aonuma Zelda sure is.

>>11909416
Aonuma hater anon chimes in

>>11909420
What about how Aonuma got filtered by both Zelda 1 and SMB1.

>>11909276
Zelda was always supposed to be an epic. The cinematic parts elevate the sense of stakes and drama, and make you give a shit.
It's not a bing bing Mario franchise, where you can write off a character's motivation as "they like cake". Nintendo understands that better than you do.

>>11909436
>The cinematic parts elevate the sense of stakes and drama, and make you give a shit.
they're not good at this part

>>11909227
It's significantly more annoying, because Navi is barely annoying, if at all.
Navi announces herself at the start of the game, helps you get your bearings, then basically leaves you alone.

>>11909439
>didn't care about grandma in Wind Waker
There's no accounting for being a psychopath.

>>11909439
What developer is, in your opinion?

>>11909440
>Navi announces herself at the start of the game, helps you get your bearings, then basically leaves you alone.
Do you have the game muted or music/videos blasting while you play?

>>11909445
You're literally mad about the "hey" sound effect? It just makes Navi feel present as a character you're travelling with. You don't have to stop and talk to her, unless you want to read some flavour text, which I often do, because I like to see what that stuff says.

Explain why that's the worst thing in the world, but something like a musou where characters are yapping the entire time receives no criticism at all.
Explain how it's worse than the computer voice in Metroid Prime, or Half Life.
Explain how it's worse than Mario going "yippee" all over the place.

>>11909459
>You're literally mad about the "hey" sound effect?
>Explain why that's the worst thing in the world
>Explain how it's worse than
What's with the hyperbolic language, and deflecting to other games?

You claimed
>Navi announces herself at the start of the game, helps you get your bearings, then basically leaves you alone.
which is false.

>>11909484
It's true. He said "basically leaves you alone", which any true OoT player knows is true.
The "Navi is annoying" meme is NPC-tier schizobabble whenever they try to rack their brains for a funny observation about a good game.

>>11909484
She does though. You explicitly have to stop and talk to Navi maybe a handful of times in the game. About as many times as you have to talk to the Elder guy in ALTTP.
It's such a nothing, that people blew up as the most annoying thing in the world, when it just isn't.
What *is* annoying is Issun in Okami, who will literally stand there, and explain puzzles to you, before you even have a chance to try to solve them.

None of you play games. That's your problem. You have a worldview built on dated forum arguments, and memes.

>Paul Denton tells you a silent take down is the most effective form of takedown
>WAJHWJAHWJAHJW. I CAN FIGURE THIS OUT ON MY OWN, VIDEO GAME. GET OUT OF MY FACE!
That's you, that is.

>>11909459
>I like to see what that stuff says.
Me too. Often it is fairly interesting and sometimes even thought-provoking. What gets me is Epona. That girl will neigh like a motherfucker sometimes. The sound byte is like 125% louder than everything else with no refractory period. Last time I played she would sometimes neigh after every single time I spanked her and then for literally no reason just standing there. It is beyond me how Navi gets all the attention when that horse is as loud as it is.

>>11909420
Pretty sure he was just a nepotistic yes-man pick for some yakuza family at this point.

>>11909495
>>11909502
If I regularly yelled "Hey!" at you, would that be me leaving you alone?

You can tune it out, sure, but that doesn't mean I'm not pestering you.

>>11909276
Based

>>11909420
>killing octorok is hard

>>11909538
If you were my cute little fairy friend, accompanying me on an adventure, I would find it endearing.

>>11909484
>What's with the hyperbolic language, and deflecting to other games?
because Ocarina of Time is literally perfect and deserves to be rated number 1 game of all time every year forever

>>11909554
>>11909560
30 years of OoT replaying has rotted your brains.

>>11909572
30 years of replaying arguments in your head has rotted your brain. Go play video games.

>>11909579
Go replay OoT.

>>11909560
It's a highly regarded game that people go out of their way to find issues with, and the issues are often nonsensical and don't correspond with the experience of actually playing the game, yes.

As an actual fan, who has played through this game several times, I could probably hack together far more valid complaints.
Epona does kind of suck, and was literally just put in the game so they could show you riding a horse in promotional material. All she exists to do is ride around the field, which you can also skip entirely with warps, and jump one bridge, which you can also skip with the hookshot.
The field in general isn't a great area. They improved upon it greatly in Majora's Mask, which is filled with actual stuff and varied scenery and enemy types.
While the ocarina is a cool idea, ocarina obstacles tend to have far too binary solutions. You see a triforce, you play Zelda's Lullaby. You see a blue cube, you play the song of time. None of this is really very interesting, or forces you to engage mentally or experiment. It's just kind of bloat. The best uses of the ocarina are for Easter eggs, like playing Epona's song for cows, to get free milk, or playing the sun's song to stun redeads.

See, these are the kinds of intelligent things you will find you have to say about games, when you actually play them, and don't let memes and e-celebs do your thinking.

>>11909585
These are the kinds of autistic things you will find you have to say about games, when you are 40 and have spent a lifetime playing a game for kids

>>11909608
>uh, ackchually, I don't even play this game. I just think I have a right to complain about it
Okay.

>>11909632
I probably appreciate OoT more than you do. I'm not stuck in the mindset that criticism = intelligent, and your nitpicks are the result of soulless repetition.

>>11909678
>my low iq parroting of navi = bad is REAL critique! yours are just a result of.. of.. fanaticism!!

>>11909495
People were saying Navi was annoying as soon as the game was new. "le nobody finds Navi annoying" meme is the worst attempt at zoomer revision on this site.

>>11909682
>yours are just a result of.. of.. fanaticism!!
I see you prefer it called fanaticism instead of autism

>>11909742
You were probably a teenager whose mind was already blown by something juvenile like Mortal Kombat. Kids who grew up with Ocarina of Time thought Navi was the bee's knees. When she spoke, we listened. When we had to enter the bottom of the well, she was our only companion to remind ourselves that we weren't alone, in facing down our fears.

>>11909584
NTA, but just did.

>>11909774
I'm guessing you had a lonely childhood

>>11909742
Annoying people in the 90's jumped on ridiculous memes which they pretended to agree with to fit in too.
Waterworld being a terrible film, for example. It's really not. It's pretty good, even.
The Sega Saturn being a shit console?
Street Fighter 3 being a bad sequel?
FF9 being weak because it was a fairy tale game, instead of something grittier?
Megaman Legends being shit, simply because it wasn't Megaman X in 3D?

>>11910074
>Waterworld being a terrible film
Fuck you, kid. The hell you know about WW and mah boi Costner?!

>>11910091
I know it's kino.

>>11909742
Most fans loved Navi, but that doesn't mean people didn't also joke about her constant voice clips. The character that had a shift in oppion if anything, was Midna. I remember people finding her to be annoying, except those who finished the game and saw her real form. The sex-imp appeal she has now was not something you ever saw brung up until years later. Fi was the "constantly annoying Navi" meme, if made real and I still have yet to see a shift in oppion on her.

>>11910118
Yeah, Fi was the meme, and Navi was annoying was actually real.

>>11910138
Fi was so actually terrible they changed her in the HD version.

>>11910583
I watched a SS playthrough and Fi was absolutely unbearable.

>>11898849
How can a padded asset flip be a masterpiece

>>11898849
>How can he make a masterpiece like MM the fuck it up again and again?
Yoshiaki Koizumi made OoT and MM, not Miyamoto and Aonuma
Also, Takashi Tezuka made the important Mario and Zelda games up to SM64
One day you will understand that Miyamoto and Aonuma are hacks who just took credit for things others made

>>11910738
What has Koizumi done since then? I hear he gets a lot of credit for Majora's Mask, which I personally respect..

>>11910751
Sadly as is common with the best people in Japanese companies, he got put in executive roles after Mario Galaxy (the last game he directed)

>>11910683
I played SS recently on Wii and Fi was about the same as Navi in terms of being an interruption.

>>11910738
"Hack" is so misused these days, it killed your entire post.

>>11910835
Agreed, he should've said "schmucks".

>>11910825
You're simply wrong.

>>11909585
>these are the kinds of intelligent things you will find you have to say about games
interdasting

>>11910825
I played TP recently and Midna is just as bad as Fi is. She'll pop up to tell you shit you were JUST told, and she talks way too much about shit you either already know or that you don't care about. The difference is that Midna is an actual character, who not only has an arc and a personality, but is immensely fuckable.

>>11911139
She offers personality charged insight. Fi talks like Google ai.

>>11911184
They really did a 180 towards an autistic companion who offers no companionship. I don't think she physically touches Link once.

>>11911201
They should just go back to a little fairy that highlights stuff, but this time never speaks.

>>11911264
How about no companion? That'd be the best option.

>>11911287
hmm

>>11894524
>The tutorial zone is done pretty well in ToTK
No it's not, it's too fucking long.

>>11911352
>I hate content, hate puzzles and dungeons, hate exploration, hate non-linearity, hate playing video games

>>11889057 (OP)
>Why they didn't just do the top pic in 3d?
Why is there so much ESLshit on this board?

>>11911449
Emulating retro games is free

>>11911352
I remember by the time i got done with it, i already felt burned out and only explored the real overworld for about half an hour before turning the game off. This was on launch week and i still have not felt the urge to go back to play it.

>>11899476
Look at a map of Zelda 2. In the bottom left corner of the first continent (under death mountain) is the area where Zelda 1 takes place.

>>11912561
>my hardware is free
>my internet is free

>>11909530
You mean the same guy who thinks Smash can be done by Sakurai or don't bother?

>>11910074
>Megaman Legends being shit, simply because it wasn't Megaman X in 3D?
Worse, it's just eva on terrible controls

>>11911139
>but is immensely fuckable.
Fi also as irresistible booty too, i still hate her.

>>11889059
Fpwp

>>11909436
No it wasn't

>>11915193
Quite literally has "legend" in the name.
Even in the NES era there was a whole mythos regarding the triforce and the land of Hyrule. That's more effort than Nintendo was putting into most of their games in terms of storytelling.
A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening continue to crank those aspects up.
It was always meant to be part of the package.
You can say "I just want to run around and hit shit with my sword", but you are fundamentally playing the wrong series in that case, and should probably Hexen or something.

>>11915205
You can have mythos regarding the worldview and a plot motivation to play the games without filling them with kilometric scripts full of fluff and poorly written dialogue that hinders more often than it contributes to what you claim. But writing text is considerably cheaper in game dev anyways.

>>11915228
you don't like zelda

>>11915389
You mean Aonuma.

>>11904464
No? Alttp forces you into a whole dungeon before you can explore

>>11889132
>supposed to
Nothing changes if you kill them.

>>11915396
Link's Awakening, famously directed by Aonuma.

>>11917253
Link's Awakening, a worse version of ALTTP. Also no?

>>11917289
*better than ALTTP in every way

>>11917289
LA mogs the shit out of nostalgia to the past

>>11917369
>>11917379
No.

>>11917395
ALTTP is boring and soulless, has ugly sprite art, and the dark world is tedious.

>>11917395
Alttp has the most boring overworld twice, light world sucks, dark world sucks, Koholint mogs them despite being smaller

>>11917401
And the content in Link’s Awakening is some of the most unprofessional crap I’ve ever seen in a retro Nintendo game and felt like it was made by amateurs.

>>11917410
This. LA was fine as a portable Zelda game back in the stone ages when you sacrificed playability for portability, but Oracles takes such a fat shit on it that it should've clued everyone in to how mediocre it is.

LA has great dungeon design, but that's about it. The world has nothing going for it, ditto the story. LTTP, simple as it was, had a more engaging narrative than LA which expects you to be personally attached to a stock waifu archetype who has all of 10 lines of dialogue. The people who suck LA's dick do so for the most trivial and pretentious of reasons.

>>11894227
yes..?

>>11899959
zoomers grew up with the Wii so waglan is what they're nostalgic for.

>>11898849
Tard wrangled

>>11918496
Most of the problems started with the N64/GC kiddos thoughbeit.

>>11919748
You mean snesbabbies

>>11889074
Arcade games suck

3d zeldas are overrated in general, oot was just a novelty