You can see the descent to Tooie and DK64 design here. Just take an already massively oversized level where a single misstep sends you flying down 500 feet, copy-paste it four times, and fill it with stupid fetch quests. What an absolutely tedious slog.

Ok.

>>11891456 (OP)
I agree. The concept behind the level's a great idea, but I have childhood memories of missing a jump, dying instantly and having to re-collect the 81 notes I've already collected.

Always hated this level and recently it stopped my playthrough when I fell a bit over halfway through the worlds and died, losing all my notes.

>>11891456 (OP)
Oh no! The games final level offers a sliver of challenge!

>>11891485
I actually really liked Rusty Bucket Bay, but this is just a tedious slog.

>>11891456 (OP)
I've never liked it because if you miss a note you might as well restart because it's in one of the four seasons and you have no way of knowing which one. Also the bee is only used to get a honeycomb and the jiggies aren't that unique for a last world.

I agree with you completely. It always blows my mind when I see people call this one of the best levels in the game. It has nice aesthetics and a neat concept in theory, but it's a complete chore to actually play.

>If I can't 100% a level without dying then it's badly designed!
It's the final level, it's meant to be a challenge. Unironically you all just need to get good.

>>11891523
nobody ever said or implied that. being challenging isn't the problem. i'd argue clankers or RBB are more "challenging" than this level. it's just kind of shitty and boring. tedium =/= difficulty.

>>11891456 (OP)
Sounds like a skill issue. The platforming and the danger involved in it is what makes it fun and rewarding.

>>11891526
This story has the best theme of the game with getting to see how the tree and the surrounding area changes in each season. It's in no way boring or lame and it sounds more like you're just bitter that you were expected to have an ounce of skill and got your shit pushed in when you were exposed.

>>11891556
yeah, alright man. i still think it's boring as shit but we'll just agree to disagree.

>>11891456 (OP)
I have to disagree. CCW is easily my favorite level, its one of the few levels in which platforming actually has stakes. And cmon, its not even that hard.

>>11891563
Same, it's my favorite level in the game.

I played this game for the first time last year and already have nostalgia for it. what a kino experience all around. tooie and especially dk64 did not hit nearly the same way.

My only issue with it as a kid, was missing a few notes on top of one of the tree houses. Then as a big boy, I found them, and I no longer had any issues with it.

>>11891563
It's not really stakes though, it's just tedious walking back up.

Also somehow I went into the ice hole and died, every time I came back to surface, Banjo went back down for some reason (think the down from inverted controls instantly caused him to dive upon surfacing), he did that three times in a row and I died because it drains air twice as fast. So fucking annoying the water controls and camera, just terrible in any situation that isn't a linear corridor.

Thankfully I had basically 100% on every other stage, so I have just barely enough notes (885) for the last door, so I don't have to bother collecting them as I retread through the four seasons again for the last two jiggies

>>11891637
That ice hole is genuinely one of the worst design flaws in the entire game, when you factor in you like have 90+ Notes at that point and there's no real way to anticipate how dangerous it truly is.

It's cuz whenever Banjo is beneath water, and his head bonks on a ceiling, the game automatically forces you to dive. The devs made the BIG mistake of making the rim of the ice hole slightly above the water rather than slightly below it. So you can surface and then immediately be forced to dive

Still think the level shoulda had these shortcuts. No reason to force the player to climb the entire fucking tree if they already did so in that season.

>>11891604
It's just unfathomably soulful

>>11891456 (OP)
>a single misstep sends you flying down 500 feet
have you tried not missing a step? genuine question

>>11891456 (OP)
>stage entirely focused on verticality
>consequences exist for failing to keep your footing while engaging with the vertical nature of the stage
Textbook skill issue.

>the level genuinely has a handful of unfortunate design hiccups that hamper the experience
>the people who dislike the level are mostly just impatient and a little dumb so they can't handle the level

Both can be true! Both ARE true! :)

>>11891846
Are you telling me that a murky grey exists between the yin and yang?

>>11891828
>>11891832
Again, the issue is that the map is not only fucking overly massive to begin with, but there are four of them, and dying even once means losing all notes and completing this entire tedious slog over again.

The platforming isn't even hard, it's just so long and boring that you are bound to mess up because it's so mind-numbing. Rusty Bucket Bay was far, far better in nearly every way, yet everyone seems to hate that level

>>11891869
>>11891456 (OP)
>>11891485
I notice you use the words "tedious" and "slog" repeatedly, probably as an attempt to sidestep the accusation that your dislike of the level comes from your own flaws or inadequacies, by using more nebulous language to offload the blame onto the level.

But when you say "tedious" I hear "I'm very impatient and don't feel like engaging with a genuine challenge". And when you say "slog" I hear "I suck dick in the alleyway behind Macy's every Thursday".

when you grow old, you should become more capable of shitting down the throat of old retro video games, not regress in skill because of "tedium" and "slogginess".
reflect on yourself.

>>11891942
Yes, a slight challenge that is dragged out over four absolutely massive levels, where there is little punishment for failure beyond just starting again from the bottom of the tree, and mistakes are largely just from mental exhaustion of doing the same shit over and over again is more of a tedious slog than a satisfying challenge.

There is this deep insecurity here for people to make absolutely fucking EVERYTHING into "muh skill issue" "muh git gud" even in the most easy of games where difficulty is clearly not the issue. You can not criticize ANY aspect of a game's design without the usual trolls coming in here to spew their garbage.

>>11891959
Please, for the love of God, shut the fuck up you absolute fucking retard. You have nothing of value to say and are a subhuman cretin.

>>11891942
It's not challenging though, I can think of at least 4 other levels that are more difficult. Do you really not know the difference between tedious filler and challenging difficulty?

>>11891973
>Please, for the love of God, shut the fuck up you absolute fucking retard. You have nothing of value to say and are a subhuman cretin.
eat your biscuit, grandpa. the rest of us are honing our virtues to become ubermen who can atleast handle a child's game.

>>11891942
Everything about this post could apply to Desert Bus as well. Is there any depth to which you won't stoop to defend poor game design?

>>11891456 (OP)
Click Clock Woods is basically a tech demo

I don't even disagree with the notion that Click Clock Wood is tedious and annoying. It just is. But the problem I have is you're hyper-focusing on it and not really understanding the bigger picture.

The level is long, on purpose. It's a peaceful forest. You are supposed to take your time, see the sights and sounds of nature. You're supposed to ponder about the majesty of mother nature and the ebbs and flows that come with the passage of time. You aren't SUPPOSED to be hyper-efficient and calculated about it. Yeah the level's a little shitty if you're being coldly analytical about it, but the intention of the level is to be soulful. It's not so much a "level" like some arcade bullshit you're meant to conquer. Click Clock Wood is more designed to be an experience than an actual level.

You are cynically judging Click Clock Wood for not being a more focused and well put-together playground like the other levels, but that's deliberately not what it's designed to be like. It's supposed to be a LONG, celebratory gauntlet that not everyone is necessarily capable of. Idk, I don't really like this anti-social behavior you exhibit desu. I don't think you understand how to take pleasure in things without being a cynical motherfucker about it, and it's not really surprising that someone so cynically wouldn't really enjoy a level like this.

>>11892003
Fuck off faggot, I understand what the level is trying to do, it's a cool idea on paper and there are some fun interactions, but the execution is pretty poor and it just ends up being a very long and repetitive slog rather than a challenging final gauntlet. 90% of your time is just climbing the same fucking tree route that is barely even changed across seasons, just with a different color palette slapped on. The jumps aren't particularly hard at all; it's just more of an annoyance that one misstep in this long trek means a fall down to the bottom and retread it over. Which, again, would be much less grating if it wasn't already a masively oversized level that was copy-pasted four times to begin with.

Anyways, best to worst:
1. Gobi's Valley
2. Rusty Bucket Bay
3. Furnace Fun
4. Treasure Trove Cove
5. Clunker's Cavern
6. Bubblegloop Swamp
7. Mad Monster Mansion
8. Mumbo's Mountain
9. Freezeezy Peak
10. Click Clock Wood

>>11891994
For the pile of shit that would be DK64

>>11892072
you really gonna diss my boi freezeezy peak like that

>>11893067
Doesn't surprise me that the same person who is too impatient for Click Clock Wood also is the same type of person who struggles with killing the snowmen and concludes "yes, this one aspect that gave me a little trouble means the ENTIRE level is unsalvageable".

I notice it's pretty common for zoomers and casual players to get VERY fucking angry at killing the snowmen, like unreasonably so, and then rank the entire level as bad for that one thing. Like the entire concept of being bad at using the beak bomb but actually getting joy from learning and getting better at using it with practice is foreign to them. It's sad to watch.

>>11891456 (OP)
I hate Tooie and love click clock woods. It gives you a small drink of what you'd be drowning in with Tooie.
Climbing up the tree is actual platforming with tension . 4 different repetitions is really not that bad unless you just hate the game and want to get it over with

The problem with Click Clock isn't that you climb the tree 4 times. That would be fine. The problem is in reality it's pretty darn likely you're actually gonna be scaling that goddamn tree like 20 fucking times.

>>11893206
Thats weird, I think it's a bad level because it's the one most obviously and shamelessly designed like a themepark.

>>11893250
>obviously and shamelessly designed like a themepark
That's the immediate vibe I got from the serious from the start and always thought it was either intentional or just a direct inspiration.
Big "carnie" culture vibe right into the core of the game, very nostalgic, a bit creepy in a way

>>11893256
*from the series

>>11893206
That's not why I don't like it. It's the only level in the game that requires you to backtrack for 100%, the transformation is lame, I didn't enjoy either race, looping around the star is unnecessarily annoying, I'm not a fan of the ice cube enemies, the snowman is unnecessarily tall, and the beak bomb attack never feels quite right or satisfying to use. It has a decent soundtrack but that's about it.

>>11893250
>>11893268
Well that's fair, at least those are actually valid reasons. Straight up I've heard so many people say shit like "well I didn't like killing the snowmen, so this level goes in C tier I guess".

Honestly if you took away the giant snowman it might be the worst level in the game. The entire bottom/floor section of the Freezeezy Peak is very nothing-y