Thread 3748998

Why there no more games that use a fighting game combat? Early tales and spin-off summon night do kinda, but even soft beat'em up/ side scrolling action elements are rare. Do you know more?

Flying Warriors

>>3748998 (OP)
There's Ergheiz

>>3748998 (OP)
Because it's a terrible combination. Fighting games are about precise balance. Without that it's a pile of shit. RPGs are about gaining levels and experience wich is the antithesis. It's been tired a handful of times and is always awful.

I gotchu right here

>>3749017

Are none of these even close to being good?
I guess it's possible, some fighting games allow for character variations without breaking the game, so whether the moveset changes depending on the character or weapon equipped, I don't know. Some fighting games have an extra RPG mode that's fun for a while.

Does this zero effort game count?

You can make an argument that many ARPGs are basically single player Fighting Game RPGs. The battles take place in closed arenas/stages, there are directional inputs, special moves, combos, spacing and zoning, several characters and styles to choose from, etc.

"Balance" is not a requirement of the FG genre, just a demand of a certain vocal crowd within it.

But maybe you wanted to be more specific and talk about RPGs with Street Fighter 2 style combat?

>>3749031
Honestly I would say no. Fighting games are one of my big favorite genres and one of the reasons most of them aren't worth playing is that good balance while keeping different characters feeling unique is incredibly hard. To the point that a small change like a few frames of animation on a useful attack can turn a character from good to broken. When you throw any kind of RPG leveling type stuff in there it makes that pretty much impossible.

>>3749040
On the other hand, RPG leveling and stat modifications and customization can fix that very same problem by allowing players to tweak and grind up a "weak" character to match the stronger ones.

For example: >>3749027
Gabranth is considered a weak and below average character unless you set him up with specific equipment and strategies, and then he becomes a powerhouse. The RPG part allows room to adjust that fighting games proper generally do not.

>>3749045
The point is that any fighting game that's even close to being worth playing wouldn't have a character you would need to grind up to make better. If they need a change that could be gained from leveling up to be on par that was just bad design on the part of the developer.

>>3749037
what is the game in the video?

>You can make an argument that many ARPGs are basically single player Fighting Game RPGs.
Mostly are shallow ones.

>But maybe you wanted to be more specific and talk about RPGs with Street Fighter 2 style combat?

Yes. I mean 2d side scrolling ones.

>>3749040
Well, I gonna try one day, anyway. if my life as a game developer allows it.
for now, I want to play them. Which one is the least terrible one you know, as you said It's been tired a handful of times.

>>3749048
Well if you don't have stats to grind, it's not an RPG, and if you have perfect balance, there is no reason to have stats to grind.

The two are incompatible

>>3749049
>Well, I gonna try one day, anyway. if my life as a game developer allows it.
for now, I want to play them. Which one is the least terrible one you know, as you said It's been tired a handful of times.


I say more power to you. Just because no one's done it before, doesn't mean it's impossible. My suggestion is to somehow try to keep leveling out and make it about choices of build. Think Pokemon end game vs battling, it's all based on the assumption everyone is level 100.

>>3749055
Exactly my point.

>>3749049
>Yes. I mean 2d side scrolling ones.
It's one of those Tales games, which also had 2D fighting combat in the early games.

>>3749060
I said it in the OP

Have you tried Legaia?

>>3749058
The problem is that there are more examples of what not to do, like the systems in Tekken vs Street Fighter or Fighting EX Layer.
What I know is that status effects shouldn't affect general speed: otherwise, it becomes a nightmare to balance. I never chose speed in GGXXAC survival mode, because of how much it changes the character...

My core idea is inspired by an old Neo Geo game. The characters had two states (with and without their weapon). But in my version, you can equip different weapons to characters in your party. These weapons are character-specific, but allow for variation.

>>3749064
This is any good?

>>3749066
Well I see you have good taste in fightans, so I wait to see what you come up with

>>3749037
what is this game again?

>>3749069
It'll take a very long time. don't expect anything soon.

>>3749077
I guess it is tales of Xillia (2?)

>>3748998 (OP)
You should look into how PvP works in Dungeon Fighter Online (Dungeon & Fighter in other regions)

>esl cringe slide thread
my fav

Omikron technically fits the bill. I love the game, but the fighting segments aren't great, and neither are any of the other segments really.

>>3749094
>MY EYESSSS!!!!

Damn, this shit is ugly af

>>3749096
Yeah it's pretty fucked.
I played on Dreamcast originally, but have been meaning to go back and give the PC version a try.
https://youtu.be/FiodKBLDpys?si=PUaGOGceLEkSAMvA

>>3749099
wrong link, but maybe not
too much soul to keep track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48T5NmbaYMU

>>3748998 (OP)
Shenmue I&II
Yakuza Black Panther 1&2
Def Jam Vendetta
The Adventure of Little Ralph
It's not just early Tales, either. Most Tales except for Arise (that is more hack n' slash) all have fighting game mechanics.

>>3749055
You don't have to grind in most RPGs.

>>3749107
Just another way to say leveling up.

There's SRT OG Saga Endless Tits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToCyUchCO0s

And the Project X Zone games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bp94rhw8lw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joDi6WP6iWc

But they're more about flashy juggling mechanics (and tits/tummy) than straight 2d fighter combat.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Street Fighter 6. Regardless of opinions on the game itself, it fits the description.

River City Ransom is another one, I don't remember if it actually uses exp or just money but it's at least close enough to be worth mentioning.

>>3748998 (OP)
Most of the time, it's the opposite: Fighting games having an RPG Mode.
>The Tobal games and Ehrgeiz are dungeon crawlers, with Ehrgeiz in particular moreso being a seperate game with the same engine, given the the weapons, armor, magic, etc.
>Battle Fantasy/Revengers of Vengeance had a RPG-esque town and stats, items, etc
>More from a general gameplay perspective than the actual systems/mechanics, but that Shamen King PS2 game which had strategy game maps and fights for the battles.
etc.
The closest to the other way around that I can think of is what you have in your image (Sword Dancer for the PC-98)

>>3748998 (OP)
an actual hybrid where you have both 4-5 niggas in a row and fightan gameplay in one game? i think nowdays it just bombs instead of praised for being unique
like gather 50 fightanfags in one room and asks them what they think of jarpigs, bet at least 40 of them thinks its sleep inducing because they aren't jerking off their joystick with 180 apm

>>3749094
God I wish Cage would let someone competent remake this game. There's a good game full of great ideas buried under all the half-baked execution including how the core gameplay feature (the body hopping) is largely pointless and how must puzzles/advancement are only one solution. Kind of sad that the only part of the game that kind of realizes it is when you're trying to get into the factory where you can either create a truth spell to get the vendor to talk or sweet talk it out of him as another character.

>>3749027
The only correct answer
If only smash bros story mode had RPG elements

>>3749191
>an actual hybrid where you have both 4-5 niggas in a row and fightan gameplay in one game?

>>3749307
This is not and you know that

>>3749017
Basically this.

The Hiryu No Ken series counts I think

I had the SNES JP game and it defaults as a 2D fighting game but by flicking a setting it becomes turn-based with stats and moves to pick during every boss fight

It was really shitty but also fun


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23vGIEW_c3w

>>3748998 (OP)
Red earth is one. Dragons crown another. I'd pay immediately full price for a rpg in the art style of dragons crown.

>>3749306
Some Smash games have stat systems (Brawl had Stickers for SSE, 4 had equipment in general, Ultimate has Spirits).

>>3749110
no, it implies intentiionally spending time solely doing repetitive actions just to level up/get items/money, instead of the normal progression you get from just playing the game.
The difference is important.

There's this, it uses a half-broken password system, the story is terrible, the fighting mechanics are sloppy, and has the worst random encounter rate I have ever seen. And god do I love this game, I even replayed the entire thing when it dropped on NSO.

>>3749955
0fps, wow. Hardly a snes game. Just proves my point that a decent rpg fighting game would have its fan base. Should've more rpg elements than yakuza.

>>3750104
A game you build your character learning like rival schools 2 would be great. Maybe SF6 mode is something like that, somebody here played and can rate it for me? It's a little expensive for me buy before before try.

>>3750217
Pretty sure sf6 is shit.
>rival schools 2 character buidlung
Do explain

>>3750218
The game has a mode that you create a student and has a visual novel like interactions to study, do exams and know characters, and can learn moves and rise status by level up and by tutor.

>>3750230
It was not so good and limited, but was a good base to do something better. Def Jam is a good exemple too, but I do not enjoy the overall fighting system, but is full of great ideas.

>>3750230
Improving via a vn style approach? Idk. If it's one of many ways to improve, sure. Else it will suck imho.

There's Princess Crown for a side scrolling ARPG with pretty seamless transitions into 2D fighting game combat. That's most similar to the other examples you gave. Most of the time you're spamming items though.
There's also Dark Savior for isometric fighting game combat which is something truly unique.

Also holy hell the amount of recommendations in this thread that have nothing to do with OP's question.

>>3750271
Thank(You) annon! I'll check them.

>>3750246
The visual novel part have a slice of life feel that fit well in the game idea, but I was talking about more the way you progress and customize your fighting style.

>>3750551
Is it on yt? Kinda curious about their implementation.

>>3750746
NTA but:
https://youtu.be/Eq_QD8mexVs?t=251
It also has minigames.

>>3751148
Interesting enough, could be made better. Atrocious loading times though. Unsure why, there's only few pictures to load.

>>3751334
It's becouse PS1

>>3748998 (OP)
Yes theres a pc 98 game

>>3751378
It's the one in OP pic, silly anon

>>3749955
>And god do I love this game
This guy gets it. Peak SOVL game, played it a lot with a buddy growing up. He'd always steal the dragon and leave me to fight all the shit ;_;

>>3750104
>Just proves my point that a decent rpg fighting game would have its fan base
Holy fucking zoomer dumbshit. eradicate this garbage from the board and abort these idiot fetuses
>BRO WHERE'S ITS DISCORD?

>>3749049
>Mostly are shallow ones.
RPG elements almost always result in more shallow gameplay

>>3749134
yeah i can't believe no one said river city ransom either. it didn't have experience, but u def had to spend time grinding for gear, skills, stat upgrades, etc. very rpg-like. apparently the spiritual sequel or whatever river city girls does have xp.

>>3748998 (OP)
They can't even make good CPU opponents in actual fighting games because the whole system relies on having a human opponent to read and conditon and bluff to in order to work, an entire campaign of braindead AI would be awful.

Action RPGs can incorporate juggles and cancels and so on just fine though if that's what you mean, and plenty of games have already done that.

>>3752044
It was not what I was talking about, but you can list some games that well incorporates fighting game mechanics, anon?

>>3749334
>Hiryu No Ken
Flying Dragon in 64 is kinda nice. And the GB games are too. IDK if it's worth play nowadays, but I liked it back in time.

>>3749017
>RPG = character stats
literal skyrim baby tier brainlet

>>3756437
In this logic, level scaling kill the RPG part of all games?

>>3753838
>It was not what I was talking about
Then what the fuck were you talking about

>>3756437
Yes, an RPG relies on a character's stats to do the work, not on the player's manual dexterity. That is the only real difference between an RPG and an action game. "Action" RPGs still rely on stats and nearly all have hard walls / stat checks that completely invalidate player skills.

>>3748998 (OP)
There was a korean multiplayer game called Rusty Hearts for a while that was exactly that. It died because the devs were incompetent fucks who deservedly went bankrupt, but it sucks because the game itself was pretty fun.
>PVE consisted of running through maps that were separated into rooms that spawned mobs and locked you in with barriers until you killed them, eventually leading to a boss
>combat was pretty heavy on combos, juggling and blocking
>PVP at low levels resembled a fighting game more than an RPG (at high levels it was literally rocket tag because the devs forgot that player damage increases exponentially faster in RPGs than health does)
I played it a lot, but as with most ARPGs the lategame turned into a gear check rather than a skill check. That game in particular was programmed like crap though, and the main cause of the devs' bankruptcy
>most of the game's life it was plagued by rollbacks because their save code was shit, and the nature of it being multiplayer online meant people could easily duplicate items by sending them as mail to themselves and triggering a rollback
>balancing was utterly inept with the dev-favourite characters having tons of super armour, better skills and better stats than others
>pay to win as fuck, which may have made them money except people discovered that the in-game shops were actually client-side and could be memory hacked into selling any item for any price (zero), including cash shop exclusive stuff

>>3749017
>Fighting games are about precise balance.
Tourny fag mind prison
>RPGs are about gaining levels and experience
D&D mind prison
Neither are inherently true.

>>3756533
I'm talking about the games that has actual 2d fighting game like combat, not fighting games elements in other kind of approach, anon.

>>3756665
I think that he mean "quality" in this kind of games, maybe.

>>3756665
>RPGs are about gaining levels and experience
>D&D mind prison
Then please, by all means define an RPG that excludes any other genre, without needing character stats.

>>3749017
Summon Night Swordcraft story is really fun, if you ignore the crappy baby level story and just focus on grinding and fighting.

Sure, if you take a game made just to be a fighting game, or a game made just to be a RPG, and then mix them in your mind with no thought behind it will be shit, but consider how popular Dark Souls is:
A game about precision, so much so that you can beat it without actually leveling up if you are a masochist or read a guide, and still a game in which leveling up yourself, or your weapons, can be fun.

Another example, that might be a good example but still, is Megaman battle network; an RPG that still depends on your good timing and skill, but gets exponentially harder if you don't properly level your decks or character.


That said, the issue people seem to have sometimes in this stuff is simply forgetting to accept their subjectivity.

>>3759303
SMSH and Tales games are not exactly fightgams, they lack some mechanics imo, but, yes, they are closer to count. And, yes, when you do a hybrid you need to adapt both to become one thing together.

IDK if someone said in the thread, but Tobal and Tekken 3 "rpg" modes are nice. A game that made this a hole game, not an extra, should be neat

bump

>>3749371
You'll love river city.

>>3748998 (OP)
It'll suck a lot

>>3749049
Soulslop comes pretty close to a competent Action RPG.

Problem with Action RPGS though is that RPG systems quite often veer into optimized one button builds that render any other gameplay useless. Why split your stats between two sources of damage whose interplay provides interesting gameplay, when you can pump it all into one murder button.

Good Action RPGs need either forced synergies that prevent one button “optimized” builds, or limited scaling that allows a “balanced” (and a build with more combat options for engaging gameplay), build to be viable.

>>3749035
>the fleshy textures
Still don't know what was going through their minds. The first game looked just fine art direction-wise

>>3748998 (OP)
that's literally what dungeon fighter online is and it's literally been the biggest online multiplayer game period (not just online rpg) for the past 20 years, and it hasn't even ever been close, you utter fucking retard

>>3756691
leave the goalposts alone, retard

>>3748998 (OP)
There used to be an very old school game that did this. Moebius: The Orb of Celestial Harmony.
https://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2010/07/game-20-moebius-orb-of-celestial.html

>>3749055
>if you don't have stats to grind, it's not an RPG
Wrong.

>>3759303
>crappy baby level story
faggot

Bump

>>3756523
Without tweaking the scaling, sure, it does.

>>3772217
what do you mean by tweaking exactly? Sounds a meaningless buzzword.

Bump

>>3749066
party based games don't really work imo
just look at tales games they have to put a lot of unfun mechanics to stop endless party combos(which are really easy to perform)
so unless it's based on a tag system i think it's basically impossible to balance without gimping the player

>>3748998 (OP)
I would highly recommend odin sphere leifthrasir if you haven`t played it yet very fun but a bit easy
Urban reign allowed you to put stat points in it`s story mode i think, really fun game not sure i would called it rpg tho
honestly can`t think of any 2d fighting game with a rpg mode (other than sf6 and it sucked) and that`s a real shame because i love dissidia and the ps2 soul calibur that had it i think it was 3

>>3776357
I do not know what tales does, but I was not wondering party in battle. I Idealise more like a pool of chars to choose from.1x1 with assists. Tag is a good ideia.You are right, multiple characters at once become a slopfest or confuse af.

>>3749064
That one is more of an beat-em up but then again, aren't all past fighting games just low budget beat-em ups when you think about it?

>>3749067
A bit clunky but alright. Good to see where Sega put all their Phantasy Star Online assets to because the hub world and several of its maps in that game looks like it was taken straight out of Phantasy Star Online 1&2.

>>3759303
Swordcraft 2 was good, dont play Swordcraft 3 that game has you getting cucked by your summon beast (emotionally).

>>3748998 (OP)
Check out Hybrid Heaven. Its an RPG/Fighter/3rd Person Platformer/Shooter

This yu yu hakusho game on the snes is like an "rpg fighter" hybrid. It's one of a kind, there is no other game like it.

>>3767358
never heard of it. heard of Dragonica/Dragon Nest being a big hit in Korea/Japan though.

>https://sea.dragonnest.com/news/pages/104
somehow still alive in SEA.

sequel got cancelled but then they made a mobile-only "World of Dragon Nest". and then it died too. and the chinked supposedly sequel also died.
> old.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/yepk1g/world_of_dragon_nest/

>>3781615
It was rather evocative of the Snes dragonball rpg. Super Gokuden. Just with a more cinematic prospective.
Though it was very fun. Loved it even kept transformations.

>>3749523
Reminder

>>3759303
Kill yourself sweaty Mega Man retard.

>>3780945
>has you getting cucked by your summon beast
what the hell

>>3749111
Mithos Yggdrassil destroys all of Super Robot Wars in his base form

>>3776357
You can still do combos by yourself if you're good

>>3748998 (OP)
What do you even mean by "fighting game combat"? The hack n slash and beat em up genres are the singleplayer fighting game genre. So DMC, GoW, God Hand, Yakuza are what you're after.
I could argue that action RPGs are not too far, too.

>>3749017
OP is obviously talking about a RPG singleplayer campaign with fighting games gameplay. Balance is irrelevant.

>>3788516
I mean side scroller 2d fighting game, like the game chance during the battle like a turn based, but instead you have a fightan. If have some importance to footsies, know when poke, fit combos and this kind of stuff, better.

The mix has been done before, as seen in this thread. Both RPGs using fighting game mechanics and fighting games with RPG modes.
>>3749017
It's true that they're conflicting genres in many ways. But it's not impossible to take fighting game elements and use them in fun ways for RPG battles. Performing special moves and combos on enemies fun by itself even in an unbalanced game.

A lot of people still enjoy single player modes in fighting games too, so playing against CPUs can be fun. So an RPG with full 1v1 fighting game combat can be cool. It might get a bit mindless but regular RPG combat is generally pretty mindless anyway. At least you'd have fun trying combos on random battles, and have some satisfyingly tough SNK boss fights. Would be fun tweaking your character too if you could customize stats and moves a bunch. You could even add multiplayer. It'd probably end up like playing Mugen with random characters, but still good for some laughs.
>>3750271
>>3750550
Dark Savior is a sweet game and the fighting game part is neat. But the fighting system is extremely simple and in some of the game's scenarios you barely have fights. Kinda wish they did more with it, because the whole idea of capturing opponents and being able to use them in future fights was fun but pointless. I mostly stuck with Garian regardless of who I captured.

Of all things, there was a Frankenstein game for the Sega CD that was kind of like that. No leveling or grinding, but pretty close.

An overworld to explore, bad sidescrolling puzzles/resource gathering (often single screen), and fighting game combat.
It's not a good game.

I think the problem is that disparate genre mashups are generally bad because the developers don't have enough time or resources
to polish all of the facets.
It's not impossible, but it's basically developing two games on one budget.

>>3749091
Hybrid Heaven is pretty wacky. I always wondered if punches were simply bad, or if it's one of those things that's bad at first but scales disproportionately if you grind them.

>>3791384
>I think the problem is that disparate genre mashups are generally bad because the developers don't have enough time or resources
>to polish all of the facets.
>It's not impossible, but it's basically developing two games on one budget.
Yeah it's hard to do well. I always think of The Adventures of Bayou Billy on NES. It has a beat em up levels, car levels and light gun/shooting levels. None are super polished.

>>3791385
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUZcbojyLBs

>>3791385
>>3791386
Bayou Billy sucked so "VICE: Project Doom" could ..do it better in every way.

>>3791434
kini game

>>3749017
It's braindead retards like this who know nothing about video games that get catered to now. Everything you said is wrong

>>3749062
legaia 1 is so good
haven't played the 2nd one tho