Name one RPG with a great story but poor mechanics

Then, name one RPG with great mechanics but a poor story

>>3767557 (OP)
It's rather bad mechanics and story: dragons dogma, excluding dark arisen.

>>3767557 (OP)
>Felvidek
and
>Temple of Elemental Evil
pic unrelated

VMTB
and
Dungeons of Naheulbeuk

>>3767604
>Naheulbeuk
bless you

Planescape and battle bruvas, respectively.

>>3767557 (OP)
>Name one RPG with a great story but poor mechanics
Not a thing, as far as I know.
>RPG with great mechanics but a poor story
Baldur's Gate 3.

>>3767557 (OP)
Planescape: Torment
Divinity: OS

>>3767557 (OP)
Story simply isn't needed in RPGs.

>>3767557 (OP)
SMT: DDS
SMT V: Vengeance

>>3767557 (OP)
Wild arms 2. Awesome game, archaic presentation and translation as far as aesthetica go. Combat system was okay, I guess.

Final Fantasy xiii. Really interesting combat system where status effects actually matter, but what the fuck were they thinking with that "story" and presentation? Holy shit it was bad.

>>3767557 (OP)
>Name one RPG with a great story but poor mechanics
Vtm:R
>Then, name one RPG with great mechanics but a poor story
Pillars of Eternity

>>3767557 (OP)
>Name one RPG with a great story but poor mechanics
Morrowind, fite me.
>Then, name one RPG with great mechanics but a poor story
Elden Ring, also fite me.

>>3777019
>action combat and action combat
Both aren't RPGs.

>>3777032
what is an RPG then?

>>3767557 (OP)
Tales of Legendia
and
Etrian Odyssey V

>>3777052
An RPG cannot have action combat. We call those Action RPGs, a hybrid genre, which is by definition less of an RPG. OP didn't ask for Action RPGs.

>>3777075
>doesn't count cuz I say so

>>3777075
>a subgenre isn't part of the major genre umbrella
bro, you have autism.

>>3767557 (OP)
>Xenogears
>FF12

I absolutely love Xenogears, but it's your run of the mill, tedious atb combat. on the other hand, FF12 is amazing to play and the mechanics are crunchy as fuck, but the characters and plot suck balls.

>>3777075
stfu sperg

>>3777019
>Press the dodge button: the game
>Great mechanics
Yeah okay.

>>3777075
Morrowind has dice rolls which has been an endless source of confusion for newfags who never read anything, let alone manuals.

>>3777127
He said "hybrid". Hybrid is part of one whole combined with part of another whole.

>>3777554
>Morrowind has dice rolls which has been an endless source of confusion for newfags who never read anything, let alone manuals.
NTA, but I am the one who said Morrowind has bad mechanics.
Point to me exactly where in the manual it explains how weapon skills impact accuracy.
It's never outright stated. I read the manual. All it says is that a higher skill improves your effectiveness with a weapon type. Probably not the exact words used, but it was insanely vague to the point of just being worthless as any sort of guide.

>>3777567
>FATIGUE
>The lower your Fatigue drops, the harder it is to successfully perform actions like attacking and casting spells.
+
>ARMOR RATING
>The average armor rating of all the armor you are wearing. For areas of your body without armor, your Unarmored skill is used as a factor. The higher the armor rating, the better protection you will receive. See page 28 for Armor.
+
>Armor absorbs damage. When someone hits you, the damage they do is compared against your armor rating, and some of the damage is absorbed.
+
>BLUNT WEAPON skill makes you more effective
>LONG BLADE skill lets you use broadswords, sabers, longswords, claymores, katanas, and dai-katanas effectively.
>AXE skill helps a user wield heavy chopping weapons like war axes and battleaxes more effectively.
>SPEAR skill permits effective use
>SHORT BLADE makes you more effective
>MARKSMAN makes you more effective
=
WTF what does "effective" even mean? (I can hand-hold you through these too, don't worry, just ask.)

Bonus points:
1. Read manual, some things are unclear.
2. Play game, weapons seem to miss despite travelling close enough to enemy models.
3. Re-read parts of the manual regarding weapon skills.
4. Ponder what "effective" means.
5. ???
6. Cry.

>>3777635
okay, cool. Now tell me where it mentions accuracy and it's relationship to weapon skill.
Now tell me how "effective" translates to knowing that.
"makes you more effective" could also mean "makes you deal more damage"

>>3777554
>Morrowind has dice rolls
It also has weaving in and out of range. Dungeon Master is also a hybrid.

>>3777120
>>3777127
>>3777137
I accept your concessions.

>>3767557 (OP)
>Name one RPG with a great story but poor mechanics
Planescape Torment

>Then, name one RPG with great mechanics but a poor story
Skyrim

>>3777654
The first part establishes that actions can be unsuccessful and explicitly mentions attacking. What is an unsuccessful attack? A miss or a block.
The second part establishes "protection" and refers to the third part.
The third part actually explains that armor only absorbs some damage.
The fourth part establishes that weapon skills affect efficiency.
Question: what is an "unsuccessful" attack in this context? Can't be due to blocking as the Shield skill explicitly mentions that. Parrying is not established anywhere.
So now we know that attacks can miss. Exactly like your character can fail at casting a spell, he can also fail at attacking something with a weapon. Not attack successfully and have the damage be absorbed, not attack successfully and have the damage be blocked. But miss.
The rest is up to playing the game and continuing to use the feature that sets humans apart from less intelligent animals. After actually reading the manual and discovering that melee seems more complicated than "if it looks like it hits it does hit" during play, you go fight a character that is not wearing any armor. There are obviously also mentions of dodging in the manual but it is not logical to assume that all characters follow exactly the same rules as the player's. But for those that can wear armor (unlike, say, crabs) the rules should be the same or such rules would have been mentioned. Besides, programming a wholly separate armor handling for NPCs for no good reason would have been wasteful.
So after you exclude the possibility of your attacks being entirely absorbed by enemy's armor or its simulation (like for crabs), you can conclude that those are misses. Also known as unsuccessful attacks.
What can possibly improve the odds of attacks being successful aside from fatigue? It's not the strength attribute as it only improves damage. It's not the swinging frequency as that only determines damage percentage. What is even left after the process of elimination?

>>3777658
>It also has weaving in and out of range.
Fair. The bane of working in real time and having first person perspective, I guess.

>>3777673
why can't attacks be dodged, and still have damage values determined by skill?
>What can possibly improve the odds of attacks being successful aside from fatigue? It's not the strength attribute as it only improves damage. It's not the swinging frequency as that only determines damage percentage. What is even left after the process of elimination?
Your Agility! I'm locking in. Show me the money!

seriously though, gains in skill are so slow (especially since you only get experience from attacks that land) so it's going to take a long time to actually notice any change in skill relating to more accuracy. It certainly takes a lot longer than it takes for a player to go "I only hit this scrib like 10% of the time. this game is annoying, I'm going back to Skyrim"

>>3777682
>why can't attacks be dodged, and still have damage values determined by skill?
They can be, and they can have. But from all of the above skills have to improve chance to hit because nothing else fits. Not having a way to improve melee attack chance in any way would have been completely unacceptable. It would have been patched as soon as possible.
>Your Agility!
Not mentioned in the relevant part of the manual.

>gains in skill are so slow (especially since you only get experience from attacks that land) so it's going to take a long time to actually notice any change in skill relating to more accuracy.
Which is why you take a different weapon with a significantly different skill rank and try with that instead. There are trainers too but this is slightly slower than trying a different weapon category.

>It certainly takes a lot longer than it takes for a player to go "I only hit this scrib like 10% of the time. this game is annoying, I'm going back to Skyrim"
Yes, it was made in better times for players that are capable of logical thinking.

>>3777684
>logical thinking
>trying to justify weapons phasing through enemies doing nothing

mate, if you enjoy Morrowind, that's fine. I love the game too, but it's combat is by far the worst part of it. There's a good reason why there isn't a ton of Morrowind clones out there from people nostalgic of the game.

There's a reason why the combat isn't what people talk about loving in the game. It's always "story good" "no quest markers good" "tinkering with magic good" and never "I love when I start the game, and run out of stamina just swinging away at a kwama for a couple minutes, then knowing I'll never hit it because I used up all my stamina trying to hit it in the first place" (this literally happened to me a few times on my current playthrough. yes, I took the weapon skill as a major.)

>>3777692
>>trying to justify weapons phasing through enemies doing nothing
>Point to me exactly where in the manual it explains how weapon skills impact accuracy.
The worst trait of your generation is inability to admit that you are wrong and start improving thanks to that.

>>3777695
my generation didn't decide to ditch the entire concept of dice-roll accuracy for Oblivion.

>>3777692
>run out of stamina just swinging away at a kwama for a couple minutes
there's a difference between bad combat and bad play though. morrowind doesn't have great combat for a host of reasons, but most complaints are people just not playing it correctly. button mashing is degenerate in any game.

>Thread not about morrowind tranny shit
>Morrowind trannies come into it anyways and fill it with their shit
They can't help themselves, it's mental illness

>Thread talking about games
>phoneposting /v/tard comes into it and starts crying about trannies
He can't help himself, it's mental stagnation

>>3777722
It's one button to attack. not much you can do aside from hold it until the weapon is all the way pulled back.
It was the Axe by the way. they use a lot of fatigue, and I'll admit, I didn't have a relatively high amount. I was trying to go for a sort of Enhancement shaman type character that uses a hand axe and shield alongside elemental magic. I knew that it would be smart to use the axe early on so I don't fall behind too hard when I start running out of Magicka, and actually need to use a melee weapon.

>>3777692
>I start the game, and run out of stamina
>>3777744
>trying to go for a sort of Enhancement shaman type character
As always, the complaints come from players going for weak hybrids.

>>3777747
I've never heard any argument against the issues Morrowind has that wasn't just "It's not bad, you're just playing it wrong by not already knowing that what you're doing is wrong"

man, it's a game from 23 years ago. It's fine to admit that it has it's flaws.
Like I said, I love the game too, but that's only after I basically forced myself to see it through to the midpoint because I loved Skyrim and Oblivion so much. it's mechanics really only start getting fun and satisfying once you're past the annoying beginning where you're painfully slow, and need to set aside a few minutes just to hit a bug.

If you've heard anything about this game's development, you'll know just how much they struggled with budget cuts, time crunches, and playtesting issues. I don't see how anyone can think there's no issues with the core of this game with a story like that.
If I was designing this game, I would probably heavily increase the help that Agility gives you in hitting a target, and avoiding attacks, while lowering the dependence on weapon skill. Ideally, you should be able to hit a weaker enemy far more often than if you were attacking a late game monster at level 1. Making that one change would likely help make the early game feel far better for inexperienced players.

also, to give a better response than the one I gave to >>3777684
What you were doing is not logical thinking. I tried to trace the steps of a new player reading the manual and interpreting what it says. You started with the conclusion of what the game actually is doing, and were working backward for reasons why someone should know that. That's not logical thinking.

>>3777735
they're not real trannies (mostly) anon, become literate please. It's because they act like them

>>3767557 (OP)
>Name one RPG with a great story but poor mechanics

Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter

>>3777773
>they're not real trannies
no shit.
>become literate please
ironic.
>they act like them
you're the expert.

>>3767557 (OP)
>Name one RPG with a great story but poor mechanics

Baroque. The story carried me through that tedious grindfuck of a game. If i picked PS2 version with its expanded shit I would've definitely dropped it.

> name one RPG with great mechanics but a poor story
ADOM. There is no story, there are only hints to getting better stuff and colored keys. Still the only RPG where you can get better at making bridges, pay to win the entire game and tame any beast that can appreciate music. On one character to boot.

>>3767557 (OP)
Ultima 7.
SaGa 1.... or SaGa Frontier... or most Roguelikes.

>>3777075
you have that autism for years now. get a real hobby or play more games.

>>3777759
>man, it's a game from 23 years ago. It's fine to admit that it has it's flaws.
It has flaws. Many were fixed 19 and 14 years ago.

But
>If I was designing this game, I would probably
Before you start daydreaming, try playing with a good character.

>>3767724
I was going to say this. I enjoyed the Divinity games combat but even though I'm a storyfag I had no idea what was going on because I didn't care and the story was a snooze, I heard the second game's was better albeit I was playing with friends and because of the first game I just tuned my mind off

>>3778541
Calling someone who you're unable to best in an argument autistic is a sign of submission. I have hobbies, I play games of many genres, most likely more than you. Stop thinking "RPG" is a gold star to place on games you like. What's wrong with being accurate about the kind of game you are playing? Why is it so infuriating to you that someone doesn't think a game you like is a full RPG?