If your game's monk/unarmed combat option utilizes a linear weapon progression path with no innate unarmed damage scaling based on stats/skills/level, and their role isn't functionally equivalent to that of a weaker (until the final stretches of the game), yet far more economic alternative to your standard sword-and-board fighter with some added utility, I don't want to play it.

I mean thats basically every FF monk or unarmed skill/weapon

>>3777329 (OP)
Unarmed should always be the best damage option and the one with the abilities, but I think monks should have sub classes devoted to a different weapon style. Like say a monk that focuses not on fists and feet but on staffs, or tonfas, or whatever. Make it so those weapon styles, while not as good DPS-wise as unarmed provide new combat strategies, like a trip attack and higher defensive parrying/blocking or higher stun rate for instance.

>>3777572
I agree, monks need to be something more than just "physical damage without a weapon"

give them control options, or they're a hybrid damage dealer/tank, or whatever else

>>3777329 (OP)
>weaker (until the final stretches of the game), yet far more economic alternative to your standard sword-and-board fighter
"economic" is a meme in most games, being weaker just makes it trash
either be at least on par with the fighter thorough the game or perish

>>3777586
I like the idea of unarmed attacks affecting stamina and causing debuffs like exhaustion, confusion, paralysis to enemies as well as scaling hard with attributes. Their trade off is usually being unarmored and I don't think it's smart to trivialize that by letting you stack AGI and simply dodge everything once u hit threshold.

>>3777329 (OP)
>>3777605
These are both true. Most games shouldn't have a monk class, it's a filler slot unless there is actual scarcity or some other reason to bother with an inferior fighting style.

>>3777605
>"economic" is a meme in most games, being weaker just makes it trash
Economic could just as well mean "self-reliant", ergo not dependent on gear treadmills to stay relevant.
>either be at least on par with the fighter thorough the game or perish
It should be a (reasonably) viable meme choice with a fun, exponential power curve as a bonus for players who remain dedicated to the combat style. Why would anyone in this setting use weapons or armor if fighting buck naked is a universally superior option?

>>3777623
>it's a filler slot unless there is actual scarcity or some other reason to bother with an inferior fighting style.
I know people get upset over equating unarmed to hokey oriental ki-based martial arts, but its actually the only time unarmed makes sense in a fantasy setting where they have to compete with guys that wield magical swords and wizards that can call down a hailstorm of meteors to vanquish their opponents.

>>3777329 (OP)
I don't have a monk/unarmed combat option

https://sullla.com/FF/FFbb.html

>>3777948
fun read

>>3777801
That's fine.

>>3777948
>8-bit theater
damn that takes me back

>>3777568
>I mean thats basically every FF monk or unarmed skill/weapon
Except in FFT where dual wielding puncher is in the top 3 damage dealers.

>>3777572
The problem with giving the monks the best damage is you start asking, "why would I play anything other than a Monk?"
Like in BG3, I made my Tav a Monk in my first playthrough and he just absolutely fucking melted everything because of how many ways you can add bonuses to unarmed damage.

>>3778188
I think he meant in the context of Monk, unarmed should be the go-to option.

>>3777568
>every FF monk
Most of them utilize claws/knuckles.

>>3778191
I think the FFTA/TA2 monks are handled very well. They're strong but the race they're available to has other melee options (every other class) and another support option in Bishop: they're balanced by having healing/utility/undead purification and and easy AOE attack. In FFTA2 they add Master Monk which synergizes perfectly with the earlier Monk skillset and adds shit tons of damage. Pretty sure the optimal building is Ultima Trickers though.

>>3777948
>Sulla
lol why do these 2 topics constantly overlap

>>3777329 (OP)
Shoutout to Hat World's unarmed fighting. Being a monk gives you good stat spread, tempers your fists at a rate much faster than regular weapons, gives you a non-magical healing skill and even has one that can make farming that one rare mob a non-issue. Also makes Natalie's final boss a complete joke.

>>3777329 (OP)
A monk without a weapon is a fool. Humans are tool users.

>>3778210
The optimal build is to not use Bangaa at all since they don't have access to any busted shit like viera/moogle/seeqs

>>3777329 (OP)
>functionally equivalent to that of a weaker (until the final stretches of the game)
FF5's monk is the opposite of that, its by far the strongest physical job early on but falls off hard later due to poor scaling and dependence on a bad accessory to do damage.

>>3777329 (OP)
Monk traditionally fills the role of a combat focused healing mage type. They aren't supposed to be a full on attack class that goes head to head with other major damage dealers.

>>3778160
>puncher
Smashbrain

>>3778707
>Humans are tool users.
Lol at clinging to preconceived essentialist notions of what a human is. This is why you are not a Monk.

>>3782683
Humans are tool users, this is fact. The hand grips, the mind creates.
The fist is weak, it isn't a weapon of war.
Shaolin monks didn't train laymen to punch armor because they weren't so high on spiritual and philosophical notions that they ignored the technological and political realities around them.

This practical mindset also got their temple burned to the ground.
You are not describing a Monk, you are describing cosplay.