What're you're favorites

>>3778929 (OP)
coward

>>3778929 (OP)
I hate all roguelikes. The damage they've caused to gaming as a whole is both immense and irreversible.

>>3778931
roguelites aren't roguelikes

>>3778930
W-what ...?
>>3778931
You're probably thinking of roguelites

>>3778935
show you're dick first before asking others to show theirs.
it's the polite thing to do.

>>3778935
>roguelites
This isn’t a thing. Stop trying to make it a thing.

>>3778934
>>3778935
Irrefutable counterpoint: the existence of rogueLITES is predicated on rogueLIKES.

>>3778941
*cracks knuckles*
okay, let us begin:
define roguelike.

>>3778939
I'm still a relative noob to the genre, that's mainly why I asked. My favorites are CDDA, Zorbus and Qud
>>3778941
I understand it can be seen as pedantic, but there's a real difference between roguelikes and roguelites. I enjoy both genres, but it's a bitch to search for traditional roguelikes because of the term misusage

>>3778946
specious derivation is not causation to begin with, and the coining of the roguelite moniker is mostly based on retards using "roguelike" as a marketing term regardless of a game's actual qualifications. permadeath and procedural generation aren't intrinsically roguelike innovations.
binding of isaac is not an rpg.

>>3778947
I'll refer you to the Berlin Interpretation

>>3778929 (OP)
Powder and Angband have neat ports for 3DS, so these are the ones I'm playing the most. Brogue is also neat.
I tried to get into Nethack, but I feel like the complexity of it filtered me a bit too much.

>>3778934
>roguelites aren't roguelikes
There are almost zero roguelikes.
Most of them are roguelites because they aren't like the game rogue at all.

>>3778976
yep, this is a sequence of words.

>>3778934
Still don't get either genre. Does diablo have elements of roguelike or - lites?

>>3778947
procgen, permadeath, turn-based, no meta-progression
lites break one or two of those rules, usually the later two

>>3779006
>procgen
Really? So I got that right. Why is it needed? So that the same maps can be re-used?
>>3778965
Huh?

>>3778981
Do you even know what rogue is?
There are not a lot of actual roguelikes. No, shit like Hades, Dead Cells or whatever are not roguelikes.

>>3778989
A roguelike is a game very similar to rogue, which is basically a grid based dungeon crawler where enemies when you do and you can level up and uses random levels. Except it also has permadeath.
Pictured is the Atari version, which is not the original.

>>3779014
Thank you very much. Maybe I should play one to get the appeal. I like d2, after all.
>...
Come to think of it, it's a good design principle. I'm inclined to say it's the very essence of gaming. No wonder they are so popular.

>>3778929 (OP)
adom because it feels like an epic quest

>>3779013
>Why is it needed? So that the same maps can be re-used?
Roguelikes are about learning the system, not memorizing the levels.
Also practically, permadeath with no randomization is boring on repeated attempts.

>>3779014
>There are not a lot of actual roguelikes
there are quite a few.

IVAN (Iter Vehemens ad Necem)
and older versions of Stone Soup.
Haven't played either in a decade.

>>3778929 (OP)
Roguelikes aren't RPGs

are non-dungeon crawler roguelikes counted?

Finally! A good question! I would suggest that you stay with the more traditional ones and grind through them. They are refreshing given the state of gaming, and particularly "roguelikes" nowadays.
Start with the original rogue, you'll find a free, tiled, and more accessible version here:
https://oryxdesignlab.itch.io/classic-rogue
Then I'd say give Angband a shot. It's more about delving and adventuring for a bit, then returning to the town to rest/recover. Keep doing this until you're godlike and can defeat the baddie at the bottom of the dungeon:
https://rephial.org/
Then give Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup a shot. This one's more about exploring a vast dungeon to find orbs. Maybe the most accessible:
https://crawl.develz.org/
And lastly, you can't go wrong with Nethack, although it's more about following a process. If you do the right thing at the right time in the right way, you won't be filtered.
https://www.nethack.org/
A lot of the haters here are right. Hipster "roguelikes" and "roguelites" have created a whole generation of indie proc-gen slop that can't die soon enough. But these old-school neckbeard games from the before time are pure SOVL.
A good hint, if you have to pay for it like a normal game, it's probably shit.

>>3779370
What are some examples of traditional roguelikes that aren't RPGs? Because they're often the closest thing to a pen and paper RPG you can get
>>3779372
Hell yeah. One of my favorites is CDDA

>>3778929 (OP)
ADOM
It's fun

Shit I've played and enjoyed. Haven't gone looking for what's new in a while.
Infra Arcana
Demon
SIl-Q
Frogcomposband
DCSS
Nethack
Incursion
Brogue
The Ground Gives Way
ADOM
Cogmind

Roguelike adjacents:
CDDA Bright Nights preferred
Elona both + and omake overhaul
UnReal World
Liberal Crime Squad
Castle of the Winds

>>3778930
this guy responds to every thread where anons ask for the opinions of others. it pisses him off to the point he's bursting a vein. I can't wait to start another thread and ask for opinions without giving mine. uggh I think I'll do it right now feels so good

>>3778929 (OP)
Incursion D20 Halls of the Goblin King

>>3778946
Not at all, it's a co-opted term. Every shitty "roguelite" would've come into existence all the same, just under a different name. Binding of isaac would've just been called the twin stick shooter that it is.

>>3779508
been called out before, huh?

>>3778929 (OP)
CDDA is the best videogame of all time if you have autism

>>3778930
fpbp

>>3778929 (OP)
>/vrpg/-approved
kys npc trash
kek even my captcha knows you're shit

>>3780239
Yeah, bro, npcs love roguelikes and jank

>>3780277
kys npc trash

>>3780278
I don't understand your anger or your argument. Do you just not like roguelikes?

>>3780124
I want to play on the steam deck, but after not having played in a few years, the learning curve is going to be a fucking wall

>>3780378
>steam deck
lmao

just play bright nights

>>3780396
Doesn't bright nights use the same control scheme? That's going to be the biggest hump to get over

>>3780405
well, it's a computer game, play it on a real computer. i was more referring to the learning curve being easier for someone who's been away.

>>3781004
Yeah, it's obviously ideal to play on mkb, but I wanna be comfy. Relearning the keys and how to do everything is gonna be a bitch regardless, but fuck if CDDA doesn't suck you in after that hump

>>3778929 (OP)
Steamband, but the dev disappeared before really completing it. and no graphical UI.
https://wiki.angband.live/index.php/Steamband

ZAngband, not the easiest but a deep game with lot of mostly useless classes/races to play with and lot of overworld places and subquests to do.
https://wiki.angband.live/index.php/ZAngband

DOOMRL, a classick. and also an actual DOOM WAD which turns DOOM into a roguelike with classes and stuff.
https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/DoomRL_Wiki
https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?t=37044
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v9TUUVI5Lo

also Moraff's World is kino.

>>3778929 (OP)
My favourite is Zorbus, but I also quite like IVAN

>>3781065
I keep getting my shit pushed in on Zorbus. Furthest I've made it to is level 3. Do you go magic or melee? And is it viable without companions?

>>3778947
Refer to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-13LUfagQhY
>b-but I don't want to watch a 15 minute youtube video from a mentally ill man!
Well, his definition boils down to
>top-down
>grid-based
>turn-based
>with stats and items
>and procedural generation
He reasons that this covers all games classically considered roguelikes, and excludes games that are obviously not roguelikes, and then spends some time justifying the omission of permadeath from his requirements.

>>3778989
Diablo is generally not considered a rogulike, since it's realtime (and past the first game, doesn't really have a meaningful tile grid). Other than that, it would qualify.
The original Diablo actually started development as a roguelike game. Making it realtime was a demand from the publisher.

>>3781049
Steamband felt too janky for me UI-wise. I play a lot of literally incomplete roguelikes (early access) but the only time I've really "felt" the fact I'm not playing a finished game is in Steamband. The dev's actually still around and kicking on the internet (though doing very little game dev stuff), I'm pretty sure she just abandoned it years ago and moved on.
Have you Tried FrogComPosband? From what I recall, it has the most player options of all the *band variants. It's quite fun.

>>3781118
>FrogComPosband?
the thing that adds it lots of stuff from other angbands like Zangband? well, no. i experimented with lots of angbands and never beating them. then i played Zangband and thought "this is enough stuff for me" and most of the angbands were disappointing anyway so i stopped looking out for more.

>>3781078
The easiest way to beat Zorbus is going magic, and the second easiest way is to go hybrid melee/spirit (to maximise companions). Pick the gnome wizard preset class and get summon animals as soon as you can, I guarantee you'll get past the third floor.

>>3781148
>the thing that adds it lots of stuff from other angbands like Zangband?
Yeah, that's it.
> thought "this is enough stuff for me" and most of the angbands were disappointing anyway so i stopped looking out for more.
Fair enough, character options are what keep me coming back to roguelikes so that's how I got sold on Frog. I've never actually played any other variants than it and Steamband.

>>3779398
Congratulations! This is by far my favorite post on this thread.

Very well said, next time someone asks what's the difference between a roguelike and roguelite, I'll just show them a screenshot of this.

>>3778929 (OP)
Organ Trail is the goat

stone soup and castle of the winds have always been favorites of mine

Unironically Kinky Dungeon. 100% a fetish game but has some surprisingly in-depth systems and character builds. Also very little metaprogression besides a few negative starting perks that you can take that are related to certain bosses and areas.

lol, that rec got purged quick. looked like shit anyway.

>>3778976
>There are almost zero roguelikes.

There are shit tons of real roguelikes, but they are mostly independent games.

>>3778989
>>3781117
Diablo was developed as a traditional roguelike but real time instead of turn based. It's one of the first roguelites.

My favorite roguelike is Powder, in no small part because it's one of the most like-Rogue of the roguelikes out there and Rogue itself was one of my favorite games as a kid.

>>3782360
do you recommend the GBA version at all?

>>3782369
Yes, it's pretty much the same as other versions and what it was originally made for. I prefer playing it on a PSP just because there are a couple more buttons to map actions to but that's hardly necessary at all.

>>3782360
Man of taste. Any other games you recommend regardless of genre?

>>3781117
SIMUL-turn based

>>3781148
>>3781148
That and i got addicted to Diablo 2 for years....

>>3778929 (OP)
Not my favorite and not fully a roguelike, but Quasimorph is bretty gud

*THUNKTHUNKTHUNK*
*THUNKTHUNKTHUNK*
HUH!

>>3783673
Which one is this? and how is it

>>3778929 (OP)
I used to like Cataclysm when it was just Cataclysm. The single key to access everything made it accessible. Now everything is too tedious - you have to manage pocket storage volume lol. Fuck that.

Pixel Dungeon was good until they added item breaking.

The only one I still play is Azure Dreams, aka Pokemon Roguelike.

>>3783749
That's Shiren the Wanderer. It's decent, but due to limitations of the Super Famicom hardware it was made for originally It's also kind of limited. Also unlike traditional roguelikes it has a warehouse for storing items between runs which skews the difficulty curve. Blind/traditional runs where you start with nothing are heavily bassed on the weather which affects things. Certain weather predictions before you start are impossible to win with etc.

That said, it can be a good intro series for some people.

>>3783779
>you have to manage pocket storage volume lol.
there's a fork that does away with some of the pseudo-simulationist tedium, it's called bright nights

>>3783804
>there's a fork that does away with some of the pseudo-simulationist tedium, it's called bright nights
Thanks, I'll look into it.

>>3783785
In my experience people who like Mystery Dungeon games don't usually enjoy playing real roguelikes.

Man I haven't played a proper roguelike in like 12 years, should I still enter threads like this? Has anything new happened since Crawl?

>>3778929 (OP)
This is like blaming italians for all the ills jews and muds has wrought upon the world.

>>3784660
Biggest recent full release was Caves of Qud
>>3784661
Back to your containment general

>>3783779
in teh shattered branch only throwing weapons break, which is fine. if i want a physical ranged character i just pick the huntress anyway, her bow is just straight up better than picking up trash to throw even disregarding breaking.

>>3784661
>This is like blaming italians for all the ills jews and muds has wrought upon the world.
Technically they were party to a certain crucifixion that led to a certain slave morality religion, so...

>>3785012
Iirc the last version of vanilla PD has equipment durability.

>>3782714
This may be an odd list of recommendations, most of the games I love aren't super popular.

Ecco the Dolphin:
Since it came out I have loved this game and it's a constant go-to zen relaxation experience for me at this point. It's unlike pretty much any other games of the era, the control scheme is odd and most of the gameplay revolves around having to be very calm and patient to do precise things with it's stiff controls all the while there is a time pressure and you are slowly drowning the entire time. I understand why it was never popular in the way Mario or Sonic were, but what others tend to list as flaws are the reason I love it while Mario and Sonic bore me to tears.

Monster Hunter 1
The original Monster Hunter is easily one of my favorite games of all time. I maxed the clock at 999.99 hours a good year or more before I stopped playing it pretty much daily. The series as a whole up to World and Rise was wonderful in my opinion, but the first game had both a unique and wonderful control scheme once you learned how to utilize it and a certain balance where even though there was tons of weapons and armor to hunt for, you could also pull out a joke weapon like the Chef Knife and still win a major battle if you were on your game. Other than that, the PSP entries are generally a low point in my opinion with the games starting to get better again with 3 and culminating in Generations and Generations Ultimate being in my opinion the overall top of the series.

Bangai-O
Easily my favorite Treasure game, a wonderful risk vs reward fest of chaotic fun.

Tempest X / 2000
I adore pretty much any version of Tempest, it's so fast and slick, not quite a rail shooter but somehow better than them all. The X, 2000 and other versions that layer trippy visuals on top of it all really makes the whole thing shine.

>>3784633
That's my experience as well, they are superficially similar but the MD format is quite different from real roguelikes.

>>3785366
>Cont

Lunar Eternal Blue: original Sega CD US release
I figure there's not much point mentioning RPGs here like Etrian as everyone is probably familiar with them. Lunar 2 has had several re-makes and releases though and I somewhat controversially think the original US release is the best of them all. For starters, the Saturn/PS1 remake is terrible in too many ways compared to the original to go into here so the Sega CD version is always the go-to. But the US release also has a fairly significant difficulty hike over the Japanese original which I think makes the game far better. It's one of the few RPGs that hits perfect difficulty in my books which is that by exploring each area or dungeon you come to fully, but not stopping to grind, the boss at the end will be very difficult and drain most of your resources but you will win by the skin of your teeth. From start to finish it's a consistent challenge but always a possible one.

Puyo Puyo / Puyo vs Tetris
Regular Puyo Puyo is my favorite puzzler there is. Not much to talk about or recommend, if you like the genre you've probably played it and have your own opinion. Tetris vs Puyo is great fun but I think it works better as a party game than a solid single player experience

Honorable mentions I don't have time to elaborate on
Gaiares - Genesis shmup
Ranger-X - Genesis action game
Beyond Oasis - Genesis action adventure, like a mix between Zelda and a Beat 'em Up.
Zone of Enders The Fist of Mars - GBA strategy RPG with cool combat mechanic
Metal Gear Solid Ghost Babel - GBC game, awesome mix of MG1/2 and MGS
Ghost in the Shell - PS1 action game
Comix Zone - Fantastic Genesis action game

>>3785327
that does sound kind of ass. is there any real reason to play vanilla over shattered?

>>3785507
Shattered kind of sucks?

>>3785674
how so? i certainly find it fun enough to sink a couple dozen hours a week into in between other games.

>>3778947
They are games like Rogue. The original rogue was fairly simple. Now, titles considered roguelike with a hardcore following are usually very in depth, and also include crafting and survival mechanics. A true roguelike is just a permadeath game tho. That's all u need.

>>3779014
>Atari
Huh? Is this the best looking Atari game? It's very clean

>>3785825
i certainly don't think those kinds of graphics are possible on a 2600. them simply saying "atari" is incredibly vague.

>>3785827
well, um... surely someone here knows what version of Rogue™ that is.

>>3785730
It doesn't have the same simplicity as vanilla PD. With vanilla there are only so many things that can go wrong on a run, so eventually you can beat it. With Shattered every run ends in a few floors as some new shit I've never seen before pops up to end my run.

The point of a casual roguelike is the casual part.

>>3785825
>>3785827
Calling it an Atari game is a bit misleading, it's from the Atari ST which was an Atari branded computer, it was a lot more powerful than the consoles they sold.

>>3786059
when someone shows a game and you know the name but not the system, go to mobygames and look through the screenshots section
The More You Know™

>>3778929 (OP)
>What're you're favorites
Jupiter Hell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM1ZBvgYOX0
It's a solid roguelike and represents a significant step forward in terms presentation but at its core holds true to tradition. There's not a lot to hate unless you're fixated on swords, magic and ascii.

>>3786382
I'm not fixated on swords, magic, or ASCII.
Didn't like it compared to DoomRL.
4 direction movement=garbage

>>3786382
>unless you're fixated on swords
Swords are most powerful build in that. Dual-wield plasma katanas and go wild.

>>3779014
That is a quite nice looking version, are you emulating it? I've been thinking lately I should go back to Rogue. When we got our first computer in the mid 80's the guy who set it up gave us a stack of floppies with games and Rogue became this weird obsession. I was probably 8 or 9 at the start and I never came close to finishing it because there were no instructions. I was convinced the scroll that says "you hear maniacal laughter in the distance" was a curse of some sort because I usually died soon after. But even though I never won, I kept coming back and eventually lead me to find roguelikes. But I still never went back.

>>3786647
honestly the version you posted looks far better. classic rogue and roguelikes with tiles is just tryhard faggotry appealing to youngsters who think that graphics make a game

>>3778929 (OP)
Moria with the uniquely vibrant and colorful Amiga public domain tileset circa 1990s, for challenge and coherent monster and character aesthetics (I want to be a Ranger not a Tourist wtf)
Omega for the ability to play as yourself based on a questionnaire to load your stats and what was one of the first open world type scenarios I was ever introduced to.

>>3787592
I can appreciate that and objectively I agree, but I grew up on dos computers and feel like I've seen enough ascii for a lifetime. Kinda uglier but at least different is a bonus now.

>>3783779
>Pixel Dungeon was good until they added item breaking.
Play earlier SPD versions. You can build any. I recommend building the last v0.6 - 0.65c - and backporting uncursed indicator (the blue item background) as well as adding a few other minor QoL features (like obviously uncursed items in pit rooms). It's in Java so shouldn't take too much effort.

>>3783785
>Also unlike traditional roguelikes it has a warehouse for storing items between runs
You mean like in Angband?

>>3785730
Play different versions and see for yourself. Try 0.65c, then 0.75e (the last 0.7), then any 0.8 and then whatever. v1.x and v2.x aren't that different fundamentally. There are some good changes in the newer ones but with each minor version increment the removal of good things started outweighing the addition of bad ones.

>>3786063
SPD is incredibly luck-based now. The trinket or whatever it's called is either near useless or fun and that's entirely up to RNG or at least it was like half a year ago. Then it's up to you getting an early drop of a good weapon or armour before the endless slog through chaff drains all of your healing methods or hunger+food. Crabs were made less lethal but then the respawning rates for everything are batshit insane so there's way more of them. Skellies and guards are worse because of that too. And it just goes on and on. So you're more likely to just delete the game out of tedium instead of splatting.

>>3786510
>>3786480
i too love double armor penetrating daggers in DOOMRL. but Jupiter Hell is pretty much the sequel of DOOMRL anyway.

>>3778947
tactical turn-based rpgs played on a grid with procedurally generated environments as well as permadeath. like they've been for forty years before indie game designers turned it into a catch-all genre because it marketed well.

>>3778947
>turn-based
>tile-based
>run-based
>single character (direct control)
>non-modal
>procgen
>>3779006
permadeath doesnt have to be strict, unlockable characters (that arent designed to be stronger than starting characters) and bones could be considered metaprogression but they dont really affect your chance of winning
>>3788703
its still pretty completable without challenges (and without going into weird builds or playing with brewing) and with a subpar weapon. most of my deaths are from consumable hoarding as opposed to gotchas or forced gambles.

>>3790603
I don't count anything that's a pure start-time decision as meta-progression as playing the same character over and over doesn't change subsequent runs. Expanding the item pool counts.

>>3790603
>playing with brewing
Are you implying it's not essential anymore? What did he do this time?
>with a subpar weapon
You don't need a good weapon for the entire game. You only really want it for early game to reduce the mind-shattering tedium until you get a decent wand to dump upgrades into. You could technically win with just a ring and an assortment of whatever the game gave you but that is most likely no longer viable.

>>3790643
>Are you implying it's not essential anymore
not for mediocre players like muself, but i can just throw seeds into the pot and create basic potions, and throw meat into the pot if i dont run into fire traps no need to make upgraded versions or deal with anything that reqiures reading like i see in the challenge runs.
>>3790621
i only count metaprogression as meaningful if it noticeably improves the average player's chances of winning. i havent really seen a game where the item pool expands in a way that doesnt increase winrate but it is theoretically possible

One of the few ones I managed to ascend in.

>>3790764
Yes, the basic stuff is what's essential. Also chargrilled meat is the worst if you don't count raw. Probably the reason Evan made frozen carpaccio capable of burning into it not too long ago.

>>3790764
>i havent really seen a game where the item pool expands in a way that doesnt increase winrate but it is theoretically possible
I find it's the opposite experience, the item pool expands and dilutes my chances of getting core equipment.

The question is are your odds of winning the same with a fresh install as when you've 100% the game. If not, it's not a rouge-like.

What are the must plays of the genre that look at least decent?

>>3788703
It's way easier if you're willing to splurge like 3 upgrade scrolls for an early armor boost

>>3792622
Brogue looks nice
Cogmind too
The rest is just basic ASCII or ugly tiles because muh graphics

>>3792622
whichever tileset you like

>>3792622
Cogmind, Caves of Qud, and Path of Achra all look good to me. I can speak for Qud and Achra, but I personally bounced off Cogmind. Still, it's highly regarded.

There's a demo for one called Gum Flesh on Steam. It's so early in dev that the demo is all that exists, not even in EA yet, but I think it looks pretty good as well.

>>3792622
Personally I like the look of Powder.

>>3792622
If you care about looks, play something else. Readability is the most important thing for roguelikes.

>>3792737
Readability and good aesthetics can go together though. That its challenging in something as complex as your average roguelike is expected but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

>>3792867
Sure, anything's possible, and I find good use of fonts and color in ASCII aesthetically pleasing. But the more you add into the environment, background, effects, monsters, and items the more tiresome it is to parse over many turns. Graphical simplicity is helpful unless you have a simple roguelike.

>>3792628
Also pointless because unless you luck out later you'll be struggling badly starting from midway into caves, possibly die to teleporting bullshit that is golems and very likely die in demon halls. All because those 3 upgrades were wasted on something that became obsolete at most in prison.

>>3790764
>>3790926
If there's an unlock all button or mod it doesn't really matter. That's a one-time thing and the game is not expecting you to build up power between runs.

>>3778929 (OP)
Right now I'm playing Zorbus. It's neat but I'm not sure how much depth there is to it. I'm also shit at it

>>3790886
>Actually won IVAN
Colour me impressed

>>3799981
The game has easy victory conditions, which aren't harder than 3-runing in DCSS.

>>3799989
in my experience, the main issue with IVAN isn't winning, is surviving the banana-laden hellscape long enough to become immortal

>>3778931
Roguelites saved gaming when it was at its lowest. When everything was just movie games with QTEs, roguelites and dark souls put gameplay back under the spotlight, and made it okay to die again.

How much of a copyright nightmare would making nethack into a big budget game be?

I really liked cogmind. Roguelike fans have genre autism so bad though it makes me ask why I would bother discussing the games

>>3800492
You'd have to rename Sokoban for a start.
Elbereth and Nazgûl are Tolkien, obviously. They can be a bit protective.
Crom is from Conan.
Beholder, Mind Flayer, Umber Hulk, Displacer Beast, Rust Monster, etc. are all from D&D, as are a whole bunch of the demon lords.
Keystone Kop, maybe?
You'd have to rename a lot of things, but not in a way that breaks anything.

>>3778929 (OP)
>What're YOU ARE favorites
None. My favorite is Brogue, and it's as far away from an RPG as a traditional roguelike can be. Rogue isn't supposed to have story elements, nor is each run supposed to take more than a couple of hours so that it is possible to play many runs. When you violate both of those rules, all you end up with is a really shitty RPG.

>>3779467
I was tempted to get cogmind but not sure if I'll like it.

Are there any Pixel Dungeon forks that improve the gameplay?

Is there a list of forks?

probably the best roguelike, although I enjoyed my Oblivion/Skyrim games where I chose TG/DB characters.

>>3802182

I think angband is a fun game.

>>3802182
>roguelike
I understood that reference

>>3802182
thief predates the gay ass wotc garbage of eliminating thieves as a class and calling them "rogues" like some vapid fop.

>>3802584
i don't like random dungeons, makes me feel like i'm wasting head space memorizing the floors

>>3802713
huh, memorize? why would you memorize a floor in a roguelike? you can just look at it.

>>3802126
"Shattered" is probably your best bet. ive tried a few of the others and that one seems to be only one that stands out.

What’s the most Rogue game that’s not Rogue? Should I just play Rogue at this point? Which version do you recommend?

>>3778929 (OP)
southperry maplestory roguelike mode.

Tales of Maj'Eyal not being mentioned yet is a shame. Big world, good story, theory-crafting your build out the ass. Difficult but not impossible. Check that shit out.

>>3806031
ToME is the most boring fucking shit. There are other roguelikes that have limited interactions, but this garbage takes the cake at being both infuriatingly shallow and constantly shilled.
You know why theory crafting a build is one of the more "fun" parts? Because actually using the damn thing is almost automatic. But even this sucks, because unlike Path of Achra or Rift Wizard, you're expected to do basically the same thing for possibly several hours to actually get there in the first place. And about the fourth time you do get there, you realize infusions/runes = survival more than anything else, so any build barely matters beyond its raw damage output.

Fuck this boring dogshit.

>>3806722
TOME4 is pretty much a roguelike for people who aren't into roguelikes. It gets recommended a lot because for those people, it's the only one they've played.

>>3779372
yeah, monopoly is my favorite roguelike

>>3802749
I've downloaded the code for the original PD, it's not obvious how to mod it. Object oriented code and code generated by IDEs mystifies me.

>>3792725
Powder has forested areas??

>>3786647
>>3779398
As someone who's played the original Rogue, are there any modern games that capture the same feeling?

>nobody mentioned Balatro, Isaac, or Slay the Spire
I know this is a contrarian board, but yikes!