The remaster takes what is a flawed but innovative game and turns it into a masterpiece. FF12 zodiac job is the best in the series.

Using theater actors instead of voice actors worked out so well in this game. I think it's one of the few Jrpgs where the dub is undeniable better than the original jap voice work. Everyone is so good especially the guy who plays balthier. It helps that this is easily the best localized and best written Final Fantasy game so they got some good lines to say too. Why did square, and other companies, not use theater actors more? They act circles around traditional VAs.

Vayne starts out as an incredibly compelling villain he's easy to root for. To bad the plot and pacing go downhill after raithwalls tomb. The biggest flaw of the game is how Vayne devolves into a retarded meathead final boss at the end. And not in the good way like in MGS rising. His first speech at the beginning in rabanastre kicks ass.

People complained about Vaan and Penolo alot on /v/ back in the day but they're not really annoying. In fact they're downright likeable. They're just not quite as good as the other 4 characters.

To bad matsuno had to have a melty halfway through development.

Op again. Best Cid too. Probably my favorite character in the game. Though balthier and Fran are a very close 2nd and 3rd. This game is full of great characters

>>3779425 (OP)
FFXII is pure ASS. It was the first and ONLY Final Fantasy specifically aimed at ass men. IX showed a single spark of it, but it wasn't until XII that the booty got proper representation by the entirety of the playable female cast.
And this is precisely why FFXII is adored the world around by gamers of both superior intellect and taste. While the boys were ogling the big bouncing breasts plaguing the series since the advent of 3D with FFVII, the men had gambits on, Fran+Penelo+Ashe in the party, Bubble (butt) status on at all times, and the camera near the floor, tilted slightly upwards to admire the best behinds ever put into a Final Fantasy game.

>>3779425 (OP)
Good VO casting is rare regardless of language.

>>3779428
This so much

>>3779425 (OP)
original and izjs are better. tza makes it too easy and gives you double the classes without balancing the game around it

>>3779431
I played the original and it absolutely is not better than the zodiac job remaster. The games default speed should have been 2x it feels so good. Original release you ran to fucking slow and attacked to slow even on the fastest atb setting.

2x cuts out all the fat.

>>3779428
>FFXII is pure ASS
That's how I remember it.
>>3779425 (OP)
Why is the job system special or even the best?

>>3779425 (OP)
Verily.

>>3779428
Penelo is very underrated by the fandom. I say she gives Selphie, Rikku a run for their money.

>>3779425 (OP)
The auto combat is really boring, and you tend to run the same 2 or 3 gambits for 95% of situations - only making specific ones for some of the eidolon fights or hunts. It's a well presented game, but like idk that's only half the picture. It's got the same kind of problems that FF13 does albeit without the restrictions of freedom you see in that game.

>>3779449
His VA has such a sexy accent holy shit

Finally, a chance to be autistic about FF12. If Square Enix ever stops being insane, I want them to try a tactics game in the style of 12, with the complexity you would see in a tactics game, and being able to customize the appearance of your units. 12 has a solid basis to expand upon and I wish they made more games like it without the MMO baggage.
The only things I really have to complain about are with the narrative. I recently started playing 10 for the first time, and Vaan never stood a chance after coming after Tidus. Tidus is a chill, funny chad that gets transported to the future and has PTSD. Vaan is concerned about what happened to his brother, but not much comes out of it. It would have been better if Balthier was the protagonist.
>>3779429
In English, the only VA I'll complain about is Fran. She sounds significantly worse compared to the rest of the main cast. It would have been fine if she was an NPC you interact with once or a few times, but not a major character.
>>3779477
Fujonon, please.

>>3779455
problem with penelo is she basically has no reason to be in the game beyond the short larsa bit

>>3779487
>tactics game in the style of 12
Is anyone going to tell him

>>3779434
Double Jobs are an optional easy mode for people who dont like playing it IZJS style.

>>3779492
Is it Diofield?

>>3779431
this but only because zodiac age lets you respec to different jobs. izjs is good because if you want haste you have to commit to a shit class.

>>3779515
There are two jobs with Hastega along with motes. Machinist is solid on normal and excellent on weak. Time Mage is one of the weaker ones but its surprisingly competent during the main game because its easy to get strong crossbows including the strongest one just by playing sticking to the story. A lot of trash get crippled by disable too.

>>3779425 (OP)
>The remaster takes what is a flawed but innovative game and turns it into a masterpiece.

it still has Vann and Penelo be dead weight

>it's good because of a 2x speed toggle
Damning praise if I ever heard any.

>>3779750
Hahahaha!

>>3779750
I'd use 2x speed toggle on 4chan if I could

>>3779425 (OP)
Isn't this the game where square went
>If the main character is 17 his voice actor NEEDS to also be 17

>>3779425 (OP)
FFXII is one my favs in the series too but it's too easy encounter to encounter, sure some of the bosses are hard but that's a given for any game ever made though. Still a solid FF.

>>3779461
>and you tend to run the same 2 or 3 gambits for 95% of situations - only making specific ones for some of the eidolon fights or hunts
my brother in christ, finding that 1 gambit setup that blasts everything is what makes the game fun.

>>3779461
>>3780132
The issue is that this is all bullshit.
If you're actually playing FFXII instead of outgrinding everything and skipping the gameplay entirely, you're constantly altering your gambits and swapping equipment mid-battle as circumstances change.
Unfortunately, not even the New Game Minus mode fully solves the grinding issues due to the game's leveling having almost no impact compared to the License Board, which has basically complete breakaway from the concept of level at all.
Leveling up should have never been a component in XII to start with and the effort should have gone to completely reworking the License/jobs and encounters, making this THE core rather than a mere subset of the progression.
Normal mode should have allowed grinding for scrubs. New Game "-" should have set hard caps on LP gain and only served LP upon defeating designated bosses.

>>3780150
I coulda done with another spheregrid game to be honest. X has by far one of the most fun level up systems in any rpg. That being said the license board is fun too

>>3780219
Maybe it'sm my not-so-inner-tism coming out, but I remember playing 10 when it came out and hating the Sphere Grid. It felt like they wanted me to have the freedom to make everyone whatever I wanted, but then made it way too linear. Then 12 came out and I thought, "Yeah! This is what the Sphere Grid was supposed to be!" Then everybody bitched about the fact that they went out of their way to grind and make everybody the same. So we got the Crystarium from 13 instead. That was when I realized: Better to be maybe autistic than definitely retarded like the people who hated 12.

>>3780150
I let the auto-combat do its thing 100% of the time, and only swapped gear or gambits every few hours as I gained significant upgrades that warranted attention.
Otherwise, I just played the game as a walking simulator and enjoyed the scenery and music.

My personal gripe with the game is that the party members are just 5 humes and a viera. I wish there was a more interesting selection. For sure, why didn't we get a playable Bangaa?

Haven't played this since it came out but my lingering memory of it is
>uninteresting characters except balthier and fran
>very dull colour pallet - I remember everything being brown (probably incorrectly)

>>3779425 (OP)

While the zodiac job system is indeed a great improvement the game will forever remain as wasted potential for me. The game really needed to flesh out every Esper story and give more agency to the protagonic trio of Ashe, Basch and Balthier. It really bums me out how the main story kind of progresses without intersecting with the party since Larsa joins in.

Half the areas are optional and the other half are not even story events, they only trigger story cinematics happening who knows where once completed. It is rather dull and uninteresting.

I feel nothing about how disastrous XIII, XV and XVI are because those are all soulless slop but damn it XII had the potential to be the very best!

>>3779425 (OP)
ff12 is utter garbage, but I'm glad I played it so I can understand how bad it is

>>3780219
>>3780545
the sphere grid is overrated, it's much more linear than it seems. the regular version anyways, not sure about expert

>>3780679
>very dull colour pallet - I remember everything being brown (probably incorrectly)
You don't remember going blind inside the Great Crystal?

>>3780732
Yeah Expert is far more flexible. For example, you can have Yuna and Lulu cover each other on White/Black Magic, or get Kimahri to learn Steal and Use well before Rikku joins permanently.

Job system should have included costume changes for every character.

Also, mods like SFF improve the game even further

Isn't the remaster just IZJS? Why not just play International?

>>3781303
the remaster adds more stuff, like 2 jobs at once

>>3781310
Everyone says it trivializes the game. Is that true?

>>3781303
>>3781310
IIRC Zodiac Age also fixes issues with the spell queue, but I have very little experience with the PS2 versions of XII to say if that's a big deal.

>>3779425 (OP)
more like zodiac jobber system

>>3781315
the ATB queue and damage cap were fixed in IJZS. and the the -aga spells clogging up the queue was the single biggest and most frustrating issue with the vanilla ps2 version.

>>3780744
>or get Kimahri to learn Steal and Use well before Rikku joins permanently.
you can do that in standard without much difficulty

Its kind of amazing how many people gravitate towards the idea of Basch being the main protagonist when he feels like an Auron type character. Someone that's important to the world but ultimately secondary to the real driver(s) of the plot.

>>3781325
Spell Queue was definitely there in IZJS since they both existed on the same hardware. Some fights in TZA are notably more annoying because of its removal.
>>3781314
It makes it easier in the long term but the top three jobs for most of your run dont change (Knight, Black and White), same goes for the worst one (Breaker). Its the others that get affected in a variety of ways.

>>3781376
>the top three jobs for most of your run dont change (Knight, Black and White)
WM is a strong job in IZJS? I didn't use it much in TZA, but that could be because Knight/Bushi is just ridiculously good at everything except access to Break skills and Time Magick.

>>3779425 (OP)
12 is like a single player MMORPG right?

>>3781401
This is the general sentiment from normalfags who have actually played neither an MMO or FFXII, yes.

>>3781401
no, it plays like a final fantasy game where combat occurs in real time on the field maps.

>>3781314
Yes. It gives you double the stat ups.

>>3781401
How I like to describe final fantasy 12 is that it was the prototype for xenoblade chronicles. XC owes 12 a lot for laying the foundation. It was the first "single player mmo" as people like to call these style of games. Even though >>3781404
Is more correct they're not really mmos but I dunno how better to label them.

Ffx sorta made it's own style of jrpg too. Shadow hearts covenant owes that game a lot. Honestly I think the ps2 era final fantasies where the most innovative.

>>3781393
Knight/Bushi is carried so hard by Knight being one of the strongest jobs in the game its stupid. The Bushi part is literally only relevant very late into the game (Lhusu revisit and the Genji set) which is why its seen as a mediocre job in IZJS.

>White Mage
The only consistent heal/support job across the entire game with no esper/quickening quirks. Hastega is like unironically the only support spell they're missing and you dont want your WHM handling that anyway.
Deceptively powerful in undead heavy areas, Cura/Curaja turn into absolute nukes (Holy is bad and should almost never be used)
Holy Rod is a self contained weapon that boosts its own output and their healing spells.
Excellent team leader since they have enough time to use Steal (Balthier is a popular WHM for a reason) which lets you role compress.
Their only issue is that you want to pair em off with a melee job for more consistent mp generation in a 2 job run. Knight, Breaker, Shikari and Uhlan all like it as a sub, Machinist!White is a bit of a meme.
Its the only class in IZJS that I'd argue to be a must pick. Everyone else has an easy substitute but White Mages need at least two classes or a very specific team to cover the same role.

>>3781601
>The best in their respective roles
Knight, White Mage, Black Mage
>Substitutes for the above
Uhlan, Monk, Red Mage
>Niche and/or Late Bloomers
Machinist, Shikari, Bushi, Archer, Time Mage
>Ruined by damage formula
Breaker

>>3781404
>>3781406
But it's kind of like .hack though right?

>>3781601
>>3781602
Balthier: machinist/foebreaker
Vaan: uhlan/time mage
Fran: archer/red mage
ashe: black mage/monk
Penolo: white mage/shikari
Basche: knight/bushi

I'm pretty happy with this mix of classes in my current playthrough. Especially impressed with uhlan/time mage (heard it's bad nope it's really good) and white mage shikari (this one is just as good as I heard if not better). It kinda sucks how many magick/attack ups get wasted with machinist foe breaker but I love getting heavy armor for balthier and adrenaline and the other one that boost attack when hp is full is really useful for him.

Ashe makes a kick ass black mage

>>3780150
I want to hear more about this. I don’t understand what you mean. Like no leveling and only job boards sounds fun in theory though. Is that all?

>>3781404
>>3781447
My guess is that when people originally called it an offline MMO they were specifically referring to FFXI where you engage an enemy and watch your character auto attack while you menu to use spells and abilities. Doesn't make sense anymore since FFXIs gameplay has been superseded in popularity by the WoW style action oriented MMO that was eventually picked up for FFXIV.

>>3781671
That's the premise of New Game Minus, where leveling is completely disabled and all party members are fixed at whatever level they join the party at by default. The main issue is that you can still grind for LP and steamroll the game just with License Board and equipment alone because they contribute more to your effective power and gameplan than raw level/statistics. That, and the License Boards are mostly laid out in a way that isn't conducive to a low-grind/no-grind playthrough.
I haven't theorycrafted it out in too much depth but I know with some certainty that XII was actually on the right track with the "shared" License Board instead of the job-based ones, and what the game needed was a way to fundamentally keep the player from grinding out the entire board and making wholly identical characters, as well as a complete rework of the board to more quickly get the player into "strategic" options that facilitate higher-order play no matter what builds they were aiming for.
JRPG grindsloppers wouldn't like it but I stand by my previous post about how an actual hard mode that imposes limited LP payouts based on felling designated bosses would encourage players to seek out -real- gameplay instead of autopilot grinding and would actually play into FFXII's strengths/focus on HUNTS and other big achievements.

>>3781701
If I want limited payouts I could get that shit in the real world I don't need to simulate it.

>>3781601
>>3781602
>>3781666

It is annoying trying to do anything without a White Mage in this game. They really should've added more healing and support options not gated by espers or other shit to the other jobs. You could use the legacy job concepts from FF1 to do that.

And add some minor debuff removing spells that covers all debuffs. Vox, Blindna, Stona, Bless, Basuna, etc.

Knight: Basic White Magic (up to level 2 spells, plus piecemeal debuff removers and buffs) & minor Green Magic buffs.
Ninja: Basic Black Magic (up to level 2 spells, plus minor debuffs) & minor Green Magic debuffs. Also fuck the name Shikari.

Similar ideas:
Dragoon: Basic Arcane Magic. AKA Uhlan.
Samurai: Basic Time Magic. AKA Bushi.

Misc ideas:
Breaker: Fix the vitality weapon formula to be between 50% and 150% of normal damage and it works.
Archer: Needs early access to arrow types and more effects on bows.
Monk: Pretty solid as is.
Machinist: Honestly not bad, just need earlier access to guns and ammo.
Red Mage: Should have all minor de/buff spells, plus up to all level 2 spells. Should have limited access to many weapon and all armor types (up to mid-game equipment only).
Time Mage: Needs 3 levels of Gravity spells.
Black Mage: Needs 3 levels of the all elemental attack spells but holy.
White Mage: Needs 3 levels of holy attack spells.

>>3781701
If enemy levels/power scaled to the player level, then grinding for LP early without better gear would be too dangerous.

>>3781701
>and what the game needed was a way to fundamentally keep the player from grinding out the entire board and making wholly identical characters
FF in that era had this weird completionist mindset, even X had you plaster the entire skill tree over to get everyone to max stats just to stand a chance against some of the bullshit endgame bosses. I think it's just a product of the times, when games were mostly for kids and had to keep them occupied for months. I remember my copy of XII being broken at the lighthouse but it still kept me plenty busy until I could get a new copy two years later.

I think with some tweak the license board could still work in a modern game. Just look at the tree(s) in Path of Exile and make a casual version: You get limited points from level/quests, you use items to modify/add sections and every character has an individual section with very powerful nodes. Just make it look like X version so people don't get scared.

>>3782017
>>3779425 (OP)
The game would be better if the Jobs were more balanced among each other and dual jobs were a New Game+ feature from right at the start.
They should halve MP totals and reduce HP lores or have them be % based. You can get thousands of HP when the game is balanced for 500.

>Jobs like Knight and Monk have access to way too strong White Magic
>Black Mage/Monk has the best damage and healing in the game and the best HP.
>Archer and Machinist need better item lores and to get them faster
>Archer should have a bit of White and Green magic with Cura in a mid game esper slot and Bravery being behind a late game esper slot.
>Breaker needs his techniques faster, they're all really late and hard to hit with and his damage range is too wide
>Red Mage should only have -ra spells and Darkga be their only -ga spell, also be the only one with all cast time reductions

>>3781701
>JRPG grindsloppers wouldn't like it but I stand by my previous post about how an actual hard mode that imposes limited LP payouts based on felling designated bosses would encourage players to seek out -real- gameplay instead of autopilot grinding and would actually play into FFXII's strengths/focus on HUNTS and other big achievements.
This I agree with, only big mobs, hunts, and bosses should drop LP.

I think the everyone can do everything would work if the hunt/boss/big mob limit was in place and each character had their own board with different placements and costs for the licenses.

Just as an idea:
>Vaan gets knives, swords, steal and Light Armour with some Time Magic
>Balthier gets Guns, Spears, Bombs and Light Armour with Heavy Armour later on with some Green Magic and techniques
>Fran gets Bows and Maces, with Light Armour and Mystic Armour later on, along with a wide range of mid-tier magics with All Arcane a litle later on, and MP cost and cast time reductions
>Basch gets Greatswords, Swords, Axes, Shields and Heavy Armour and a little white magic and wide array of techniques
>Ashe gets Swords, Shields and Crossbows and White, Green, and Time Magic, with Cast time reductions
>Penelo gets Knives, Poles and Staves and Black, Time, and Arcane Magic, with Cast time reductions

>>3780150
> instead of outgrinding everything and skipping the gameplay entirely
Mate I’m talking from my personal experience, and let me be clear I never did any “grinding” at all.
Do you want me to just not do the hunts to keep my characters gimped or something? Because that’s a pretty huge part of the game

X2 speed fixes alot of the problems with the game, especially with the story beats. You go along at a much brisker pace and thus there isn't these huge lulls between story scenes like in the original.

The game has an excellent act 1 and act 3 (you're more a supporting character-Fran please; love this scene at the end) but its act 2 is miserable. You basically just go explore areas chasing mcguffins for the entire Middle of the game. Luckily the areas are a hell of a lot of fun to explore. Matsuno obviously finished making most of the beginning and end before his melty. Then the interns basically patched act 1 and 3 together with what was left over. All things considered they did alright but what could have been. Oh well.

Also lol at nalbina fortress town having this huge epic fmv sequence only to have the player quickly pass through it never to return.

People hate on pharos but it's one of my favorite parts of the game. Especially the outside areas and the top of the tower fight with Cid. Great shit. I have no idea how so many people get lost in the great crystal either. It's really small and straight forward.

To bad 13 killed this series and it's yet to rise from the grave sense. What a piece of shit game that was.

>>3781666
Its very hard to find a class combo that doesn't work. Uhlan/Time Mage is not particularly synergistic but works by virtue of the individual components being sufficient by their own merits. People only used to recommend that one by virtue of being pair the spares.

>>3782017
You bizarrely have enough healers in IZJS, its just that White Mage is effortlessly the best in slot for magic.
White, Red, Monk and Knight can all handle magic based healing at some point in the game.
Archer and Time Mage get Cura during the midgame. Time Mage should have gotten the license with Curaga and Regen.
Shikari (its not called Thief/Ninja for a reason when you look at the board), Machinist and Archer can all help as item bots. Archer with the Netsuke in Jahara is excellent as a healer.

Now for the jobs; most of them just need some minor personal buffs. White Magic needs Dia, Black Magic should get Aquaga, Flare needs to be less bad, add Quake/Quaga to Time Magic. Buff the weaker weapon types like Bows, Bombs, Axes and Hammers. Staff/Rod can have alternative damage formulas. Light Armor should get the HP boost reduced and now boost speed (buffs a lot of jobs in the process). Add Knuckles as a weapon type because it would be cool to use Brawler properly.

I think a lot of this was done in Struggle for Freedom/SFF Proud Mode but SFF Proud is really tedious at points.

>>3782772
>You bizarrely have enough healers in IZJS, its just that White Mage is effortlessly the best in slot for magic.
Lack of Curaja, Cleanse, & Esuna access is a serious issue in late game.

>White, Red, Monk and Knight can all handle magic based healing at some point in the game.
Monk should have a FFT style limited self heal IMO. Most techs suck.

>Archer and Time Mage get Cura during the midgame. Time Mage should have gotten the license with Curaga and Regen.
If there was a better spread of elements in armor & weapons then you could use weapon attacks to heal. Especially for scales.

We need multiple gear options per tier, and fewer tiers.

>Shikari (its not called Thief/Ninja for a reason when you look at the board), Machinist and Archer can all help as item bots. Archer with the Netsuke in Jahara is excellent as a healer.
It's a pain setting up gambits to cover everything so you don't fly through remedies and high end potions, especially with AoE cure spells. Items alone aren't sustainable for long dungeons.

>Now for the jobs; most of them just need some minor personal buffs. White Magic needs Dia
Agree.

> Black Magic should get Aquaga, Flare needs to be less bad
Agree on Aquaga, but most of the element 123 spells should be buffed, and weird stuff like Flare/Scathe/etc gated to or usable by Espers.

> add Quake/Quaga to Time Magic
Why Time magic?

> Buff the weaker weapon types like Bows, Bombs, Axes and Hammers. Staff/Rod can have alternative damage formulas. Light Armor should get the HP boost reduced and now boost speed (buffs a lot of jobs in the process). Add Knuckles as a weapon type because it would be cool to use Brawler properly.
Agree.

>I think a lot of this was done in Struggle for Freedom/SFF Proud Mode but SFF Proud is really tedious at points.
Eternal248 has been a tedious, backbiting shitbag since 2009, not surprised.

>>3782894
>>3782772
I have some issues with the balancing of the remasters.
While I really like the zodiac version we got, dual jobs should've been a New Game+ feature, the game becomes almost trivial when you have access to two jobs even if you use the low tier ones.
The bloat of HP and MP makes the game too easy, HP and MP values should be tied to the job you select with them adding a multiplier on top the base values. the current values could be the Knight and Black Mage values, respectively. Black Mage having a 0.75 multiplier on HP and the Foebreaker having a 0.25 multiplier on MP, with the other jobs having varying rates between those book ends.
If non-magical jobs have less total MP then giving them more spell access isn't as big of a deal either. That's not then even getting into the MP cost reductions etc.

Making Green and Arcane magic complete after thoughts in the Zodiac versions was big misstep too. All the mages should have varying access to all of the spell families and the melee classes should have some job specific spells too.
For example giving Archer access to Cure, Cura, Poisona, Cleanse, Vanish, Slow, Blind, Disable, Immobilize, and Oil. This would work with the Archer being more of a hunter with access to Poach, Wither, Expose, Charm, Libra, First Aid, and Revive as Technicks.
It's not a set that's overly powerful but it is a set that works with the class fantasy of an Archer/Hunter. Item Lore, Quickness augments and access to some Daggers as a back up in rain, snow, and sandstorms would also work to further that feel.

Making the Ninja Blades all such strong mid-late to lategame weapons sucks ass for the Shikari/Ninja. Why not add a few more and make them the offensive variant of daggers since they can't be wielded with a shield in the off-hand.

>>3781447
SAO series on consoles were the real SP MMOs.or Sim-MMOs. The gacha shit were real MMOs

>>3782894
>Curaja
White Mage, Knight and Monk all learn it. Three of the best classes in the game. Even Cura can suffice for a very long time in my experience, although it turns into a top of spell.
>Items
Setting up proper gambits is key. Arise is seen as a bad spell in 12/IZJS/TZA because any half decent item user can revive people for large/all of their hp with minimal cast time.
>Items/Ailments
Using Esuna/Remedies on everything is wasteful. You can save a lot of resources with the right priority/accessories. Pheasant Netsuke healing is underrated based on experience for long treks.
>Elemental Spells
Black Mage already casually gets to 9999+ without trying by using the elemental staves. They also have reflect strats among others.
>Why Time
Because TBM needs buffs way more than Black who's already a top three job for most of the game. It also fits nicely into the Comet/Meteor theme that the magic is known for.

>>3782998
When it comes to non specialty spell distribution, it should be more thematic than anything. For example Time Mage gets Regen because it suits their style, White Mages get Aero because that's frequently part of their kit, etc. Encouraging specialization is important.
For the melee jobs, you could make the excuse that some of them exist as off jobs for the spell casters and spread magic out that way, although Knight in particular gets so many of the good White Magic spells and on non contested espers at that. It feels like cheating. You'd have to heavily redesign the boards to suit this magic expansion. For what its worth though, Machinist/Archer/Shikari are the best item users, so that's probably why their spells are so barren.

Ninja Blades are weird, IIRC you get the first one in Stillshrine and then there's another one just before Arcadia if you do the Sochen puzzle. Koga/Iga are in Lhusu if you do the hunt, so a bunch of em open up midgame. They also have one of the easiest ultimate weapons to make (Mesa) and the Yagyu is less tedious to get. I just find it weird that they're 2H when you look at the animation.

I don't like a job system in a game with predefined characters with actual stories and personalities.

>>3780219
10 is my most hated ff game and the sphere grid is easily the biggest reason for that. Who the fuck thought a 200 hour grind against tonberries to complete characters was a fun idea?

>>3783352
I really like 10. It's my second favorite final fantasy after 12. But it is true that the story content is only enough to get the characters through their own sphere grid path. So if you want to see more you have to kinda grind at the end.

I always recommend not being a completionist with rpgs. Imo it ruins the fun. I was content to have auron go down his own path, tidus', and start on wakkas and yuna to go down her owns and lulus etc etc. Enough to give them a powerful boost to see what they can really do as character without having to fill the grid.

What makes ffx so good is it's got a fun level up system, exceptionally paced story, great characters, music, visuals, setting etc. The works. Don't ruin it by having to complete everything

>>3783352
did you not know the AP trick?

>>3783280
I have several plans for the mages, I'm not sure which is best. The goal is to limit their options so that 2 jobs is less OP. The Strong Roles Plans are too focused, you could easily screw yourself by picking the wrong jobs. I might make a Weak Roles In 5 Jobs plan that gives everyone Osmose and MP Gift (and Drain to everyone but White Mage), and puts dark spells on Time Mage.

I need to strongly differentiate each character's base stat gains so they're more suitable for certain roles. It sucks that we have 3 characters who are supposed to be fast rogues, we really needed more story fluff mages in the main party.

1. Strong Roles in 5 Jobs
> Black: 3 levels of 7 elements (all but holy), all spells AoE to some degree, all spells of each tier vary only by element, short and long range weapons that enhance these elements, armor that resists them. Goal is elemental blaster and if you have elemental absorbs set up then healer too.
> Green: all debuffs but temporal debuffs, all debuffs AoE to some degree, drain, osmose, MP gift spell, weapons that are ranged but use magic power to attack and hit foe's magic defense. Role is debuffer, MP economy manager, and back line attacker.
> White: 3 levels of holy, all spells are AoE to some degree, all buffs but temporal buffs, standard white mage buffs and heals, possibly limit Curaja to Espers (remember Curaga is AoE in all my schemes), weapons that buff and heal using magic power, armor that heals self and enhances tanking. Role is obviously healer and magic tank.
> Time: standard Time Mage (add meteor/comet if you can), no other magic access, weapons largely defensive or used for whaling on crippled foes. Role is generalist mage, no real weaknesses or strengths.
> Red: only gets up to 2nd level of all spells, can equip any type of weapon or armor but only up to mid game selection. Role is to give broad magic access and some magic power to a warriori, or broad weapon/armor access and some melee ability to a mage.

>>3783764
2. Strong Roles in 6 Jobs
> Same as above except a Dark Mage is made which has the 3 dark spells from Wizard, bleed from Time Mage and from Green Mage drain, osmose, and the death/undeath related debuffs. Gets melee and ranged dark elemental weapons.

3. Weak Roles in 6 Jobs - aka everyone becomes a bit more of a generalist
> Black: pick any 3 elements that don't oppose each other and physical type debuffs, a buff or two, and a minor debuff remover.
> Green: pick the 3 opposing elements to above and transformational debuffs, odd buffs like Vanish, and a minor debuff remover (maybe Basuna).
> Dark: dark spells, drain, osmose, spiritual debuffs, death/undead related buffs, and a minor debuff remover.
> Time: still the same, fewer debuffs, a minor debuff remover.
> White: same but with fewer buffs.
> Red: same as above.

>>3783277
>>Curaja
>White Mage, Knight and Monk all learn it. Three of the best classes in the game. Even Cura can suffice for a very long time in my experience, although it turns into a top of spell.
Knight and Monk require esper access, which without a mage secondary job can suck due to lack of magic and MP lores.

>>Items
>Setting up proper gambits is key. Arise is seen as a bad spell in 12/IZJS/TZA because any half decent item user can revive people for large/all of their hp with minimal cast time.
The solution for items is to make each debuff remover item remove 2 debuffs at once, and add item lores which add 1 debuff removed more to each. Also add a another tier to potions/ethers, and add an upgrade to phoenix downs which restores more HP.

IMO the Pheasant Netsuke effect should be a license accessible to one job, possibly the Machinist. It's too niche to waste an accessory slot, as are many accessory effects.

>Using Esuna/Remedies on everything is wasteful. You can save a lot of resources with the right priority/accessories. Pheasant Netsuke healing is underrated based on experience for long treks.
I know, I put Remedy below all the other debuff remover items but I still run out of Vaccines in some areas and I always run out of Remedies in the Great Crystal.

>>Elemental Spells
>Black Mage already casually gets to 9999+ without trying by using the elemental staves. They also have reflect strats among others.
If enemy levels scale with the party then this is not OP. But it depends on what sort of Black Mage you put in your mod.

>>Why Time
>Because TBM needs buffs way more than Black who's already a top three job for most of the game. It also fits nicely into the Comet/Meteor theme that the magic is known for.
I'd rather make all the gravity spells AoE. Besides that, the primary issue the Time Mage has is their equipment doesn't synergize. If there were a halve enemy vitality effect, I would grant it to Time or Green Mage.

>>3783765
I forgot to say that in scheme #3 White Mage would get mental debuffs: confuse and berserk (arguably a buff).

>>3783764
>>3783765
>>3783778
>>3783773
The point of all this job autism is to make various builds viable.

White + Time: healing & buffing guy, reliable damage options.

Black/Green + Dragoon/Breaker: can melee for MP, Dragoon uses few gambits & Black/Green uses many, good synergy.

Red + Knight: Tough, great melee, can fill holes in party roles.

>>3783949
Ff12 has multiclass?

>>3783773
>Locking Pheasant Netsuke to Machinist
That's just nerfing a bunch of jobs for no good reason including the actual best item user in Archer. There's a reason why redundancy exists and that's to give players alternative options.
>Knight/Monk as healers
Monk learns Curaja with Quickening 4. Knight asks for espers that no one else wants (Mateus/Hashmal). They're basically guaranteed in every run. Not to mention that they unironically have better mp generation than white mage because they can actually do damage which benefits headsman/inquisitor. The entire reason why White Mage gets paired Shikari is to give it a better method of dealing damage to help with generation. The dark robes shit is secondary.
>Black Mage
Anon, Black Mage in its base existence already trivialize most encounter groups, do you really want to make it even stronger with perfect coverage instead of helping out the weaker jobs like Breaker, Archer and Time Mage?

>>3779425 (OP)
I played and finished the original one and the spinn off a little while back is it worth it to play zodiac ? I know that one or two optional bosses made me regret being alive and I dont want to go through that again if it is not worth it.

>>3784158
Yes Zodiac cuts out all the fat. What's left is probably the best final fantasy game that will ever be produced.

Really the game just needed a faster pace. Which it now has

>>3784025
in the first redo of 12, the license board got broken up into 12 smaller boards that are themed after specific jobs and each character could only pick one.

In the updated re-release characters can now pick 2 of these Job boards

>>3779449
>The Treaty would be signed with Steel and Writ in royal Blood.

>>3779487
>>3779492
>>3779507
i’ll do it. here you go:
>Final Fantasy XII and Final Fantasy Tactics, the tactical RPG spinoff from the '90s, share two things in common. One, they were made by Yasumi Matsuno. Two, they take place in the world of Ivalice.
>What many don't realize is that the two games take place in the same universe, separated by over a thousand years worth of time. (Matsuno is known for creating multi-episode epics spanning several games, as seen in his Ogre series, which tell an interconnected story complete with episode numbers.)

>>3779461
The problem is that you copied you character's Gambits from the internet.
Improving little by little your party's Gambits to turn them into perfect killing machined is the whole point of FFXII's combat.

>>3784166
What do you mean by that? Did they adjust exp or something? Or did they actually cut content to speed up the game?

>>3779425 (OP)
too bad FF12 isn't a game, just 60 hour movies where "press X for next line of dialogue" and some fidget spinner meaningless stats = "gameplay"

>marquis
>balthar calls him the Mar Kwiss
Isn't it pronounced mar-key?

>>3784504
>The problem is that you copied you character's Gambits from the internet.
Nope, swing and a miss

>>3783452
Tonberry is the trick.

>>3784277
I think Vagrant Story also takes place in the Tactics/XII version of Ivalice.

>>3784516
Ff12 is the final fantasy that's least like a movie game. It's heavy on party building and exploration. You're an idiot.

>>3779425 (OP)
>Using theater actors instead of voice actors worked out so well in this game.
This isn't really true, they were just unknown actors to you. Gideon Emery has done VO for a lot of videogames before and after this. Ondore was voiced by the longtime VA Tom Kenny. Ba'Gamnan is Steve Blum, the guy who was in EVERYTHING. The only real example is Vaan who was voiced by a hiphop singer.
Of course this ignores that you know, in Japanese they got all the standard big names to voice the characters with stuff like Hiroaki Hirata (most easily known as Sanji in One Piece) as Balthier

>>3781701
>JRPG grindsloppers wouldn't like it but I stand by my previous post about how an actual hard mode that imposes limited LP payouts based on felling designated bosses would encourage players to seek out -real- gameplay instead of autopilot grinding and would actually play into FFXII's strengths/focus on HUNTS and other big achievements.
We got that in the next game, it was XIII's hard caps on how much you could level per chapter, and everyone hated it.

>>3784676
>Of course this ignores that you know, in Japanese they got all the standard big names to voice the characters with stuff like Hiroaki Hirata (most easily known as Sanji in One Piece) as Balthier

or Norkio Wakamoto who voiced Al-Cid

>>3784676
I guess I wasn't specific enough for your picky ass so I'll just let chatgpt do the work for me.

>>3784685
>AI

and closing image

>>3784121
>>Locking Pheasant Netsuke to Machinist
>That's just nerfing a bunch of jobs for no good reason including the actual best item user in Archer. There's a reason why redundancy exists and that's to give players alternative options.
You assume other jobs won't get similar bullshit.

Non Mages
> Archer: Attack CT 0
> Machinist: Medicine Lore, aka Pheasant Netsuke effect
> Breaker: Reduce Damage (by 30%), No Knockback (when enemy hits you)
> Monk: Needs elements and debuffs for unarmed strikes and FFT monk skills more than monster only effects.

Half Mages:
> Knight: Safety
> Ninja: Evade+ (Evade + 25 if not 0)
> Dragoon: Normal Damage + (20%)
> Samurai: Ignore Evade
> Red: 0 MP Cost

Full Mages
> Black: Ignore Reflect
> Green: Ignore Vitality
> White: 1/2 MP Cost
> Time: Magic CT 0

Logically Red + White is the combo that would carry you through most of the game for offense and toughen your White Mage, so their unique augments overlapping is the cost for that combo. Also this suits a warrior + red mage build because warriors don't have much MP, but that (and the White + Red combo) presents an opportunity cost for othermages who could use the MP cost reduction.

From:
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XII_enemy_abilities
Ctrl + F:
(Augment)

> Counter and Counter+: Belongs on some weapons which can counter.
> All of the various HP max/critical attack/defense up abilities: all present on suitable jobs. Also a few items.
> HP Attack: attack doubled, but attacker self-damages. Item only.
> Resist Guns/Measures: not useful since few enemies use them, and could be detrimental on an elemental healing build. Item only.
> Reflect Damage: reflects 5% of damage taken. Item only

>>3784121
>Monk learns Curaja with Quickening 4. Knight asks for espers that no one else wants (Mateus/Hashmal). They're basically guaranteed in every run. Not to mention that they unironically have better mp generation than white mage because they can actually do damage which benefits headsman/inquisitor. The entire reason why White Mage gets paired Shikari is to give it a better method of dealing damage to help with generation. The dark robes shit is secondary.
Fair enough.

>Anon, Black Mage in its base existence already trivialize most encounter groups, do you really want to make it even stronger with perfect coverage instead of helping out the weaker jobs like Breaker, Archer and Time Mage?
What part of "this is a comment about a hypothetical mod" don't you understand?

Did you see the part where I'm not sure what spells the mages should get, and typed out several possible role breakdowns? Do you think you could address the shit I actually typed, rather than doing an "Is it AI or is he just retarded?" low effort drive-by shitpost?

>>3784530
So, it has dungeons and actual gameplay. Glad we agree.

>>3781701
I actually never played with the original board. IZJS version that most people didn't play, only gave players 1 job for each character and it was nice in that it kind of required swapping characters in and out depending on how you distributed jobs, but you ran into the issue of too quickly filling up the License Board making the main game easy and only the Hunts and such were were gameplay. Zodiac Job System gave you 2 jobs which invalidated the need to use more than 3/4 characters.

I think you are right in there is probably something in the original board or a heavy remix of it. Something like what you said and also making it so characters can't use the same squares on the board to force the characters to be different. But that would require a lot of play testing and other shit the game devs did not have time for.

>>3784785
The fundamental thing with IZJS is that they took the OG board and attempted to jury rig a job system out of it by building around each weapon type. Which is why some jobs feel "complete" and others feel weirdly jury rigged like TBM. Even the supposed "thief" analogue doesnt learn steal inherently.
That's why the only thing that really matters are innates (notably Steal on Vaan/Balthier/Fran) and animation speeds on high combo weapons (Poles/Ninja Swords/Katanas).

I’ve only played up to “I’m captain Bosche” and it’s a pretty cool game. Balthier, Fran, and Bosche are pretty bad ass. I don’t really understand the combat system though. Are you just gambitting all your dudes to auto attack and heal? I’ve gotten a few game overs so I figure I must be retarded, but I end up just running away a lot and not really using much of the skills or magic other than heals. Like why even put levels into more gambits? The one boss so far: the spider was just auto healing with potions and waiting for the auto attacks to kill it. There must be more strategy to combat than that. Sorry I’m retarded I really don’t understand.

>>3784834
Part of the problem is that the original game was designed to VERY SLOWLY ease players into the gambit mechanics and therefore
>didn't require much of the player in the way of strategy until at least halfway through the main story
>didn't actually LET you access the majority of helpful gambits until at least halfway through the main story
So even when subsequent releases made it easier to obtain all of the gambits much, much earlier (basically as early as you can afford them) the rest of the game wasn't altered to account for this change, and therefore the intended gameplay itself doesn't start coming into decent view until you reach like... Paramina Rift or somewhere thereabouts.
Gambits are a well-developed system that unfortunately take forever to get spinning during the main campaign.

>>3784694
Nitpicky faggot

>>3784803
>The fundamental thing with IZJS is that they took the OG board and attempted to jury rig a job system out of it by building around each weapon type
This is the issue. There should be significant overlap for weapons among jobs. Really the jobs should focus on overall theme & balance, especially with how broken many weapons are.

> Which is why some jobs feel "complete" and others feel weirdly jury rigged like TBM.
TBM feels like it lacks offense for most of the game. Exists just to spam haste, float, and gravity. Lack of gambits for debuff vulnerabilities?

>Even the supposed "thief" analogue doesnt learn steal inherently.
I forgot about this.

>That's why the only thing that really matters are innates (notably Steal on Vaan/Balthier/Fran) and animation speeds on high combo weapons (Poles/Ninja Swords/Katanas).
Agree with the former. Game is so easy the latter does matter on vanilla, but I should hint at the fastest weapon types for each character with their inmates.

>>3784996
What really makes or breaks weapon types for most of the game is progression and how willing you are to sequence break or do dumb counterintuitive shit. For example, you can make endgame guns very early if you know what you're doing but if not then Machinist is not nearly as dominant.
Knight, Samurai and Monk dont really take off as jobs until Phon Coast or later and that requires you to do some serious treks into otherwise dangerous endgame areas. There's nothing wrong with expanding options a bit but you have to be careful that you dont go overboard as well.

TBM is the perfect example of a 6th slot filler. It has a niche that can be useful (Haste, Float, Disable, Immobilize, Gravity and Bolt debuffs) but it doesnt do too well in the macrogame because Crossbows dont have a good endgame weapon (Tula is excellent for early lategame but it doesnt keep up) and no form of elemental damage anywhere. If there was a better designed set of ailment gambits, i think people would appreciate them better.

>>3784996
>>3785029
Crossbow + Focus (use the accessory) is good enough for a very long time. You also get some good crossbows for free too.

>>3785029
Crossbows get all the weather and terrain debuffs. To counter that they should be strong, crit often, or have good options.

I think multi-debuffs and a few elements would be nice. Multi-debuffs frees up crossbow bolt slots for elements. A power boost too, of about 10 points to each crossbow, or an additional 5% to 15% crit rate.

Also TBM shouldn't use crossbows. They should have either defensive short range 1 handed weapons that boost evasion and a few mage oriented shields, and a longer range magic powered 2 handed weapon which debuffs. They've no need for elements. Measures would be nice too, if they were multi-element so you could more easily heal with them, though this requires they be stronger. More AoE debuffs helps too, as does a meteor and maybe comet.

I think Knights should get crossbows instead, for more debuff options and range. Red Mage should also get all but the last 1/3 of them, as jack of all trades. Archer could use a few too.

I'm glad someone else agrees that the lack of debuff vulnerability gambits has debuggers.

Guns aren't that useful due to lack of elements and element boosting. There should be more if that IMO. The light armor type lacks utility for most of the game, as do most accessories.

>>3785029
It's okay for a back row support.

>>3785044
>Guns arent that useful
Lmao. They're like the strongest weapon on weak mode and even on normal mode they're quite solid for a very long time. Early Arcturus trivializes so much content
>lack of elements
Fire, Water, Dark, Earth, Wind. Dark can get boosted with a robes job (Red/Machinist is a strong one) but they dont really care for that as much as Focus/Adrenaline.

>>3785044
Time Mages already get a handful of 1H Swords. Archer doesnt really gain much from xbows, they'd end up like bombs on BLM. A meme.

>>3785059
>>Guns arent that useful
>Lmao. They're like the strongest weapon on weak mode and even on normal mode they're quite solid for a very long time. Early Arcturus trivializes so much content
That's more became SE is dumb in how they treat weapon access, element access, and enemy elements. I would do that differently.

>>lack of elements
>Fire, Water, Dark, Earth, Wind. Dark can get boosted with a robes job (Red/Machinist is a strong one) but they dont really care for that as much as Focus/Adrenaline.
AFAIK only Dark can get boosted with guns (I may be wrong), though they all can hit elemental weaknesses. Obviously I'd do different.

>>3785061
> Time Mages already get a handful of 1H Swords. Archer doesnt really gain much from xbows, they'd end up like bombs on BLM. A meme.
1h swords aren't useful for TBM, they're better off with pure mage stars and weapons that run off them.

If crossbows have a viable role and are different from bows, archers could benefit from them.

>>3779461
In most other JRPGs you use one command in every fight with no variation
>Most FF? just attack
>FF6? use magic
>FF7? use summons
>Saga games? use your highest damaging WA
>Tales games? Use the highest damaging attack
The gambit system made automated allies not retarded for once and allowed you to prepare for various situations without interrupting the action. Besides, in actually hard battles you would use manual commands too since the 12 slots couldn't account for everything.

Criticism of the gambit system was one of the worst things to happen in gaming and TO THIS DAY we have to deal with retarded allies because of it

>>3785135
Machinist can casually hit super endgame damage incredibly early into the game if you're autistic enough to farm the recipe for Mithuna. Arcturus which is less stressful (the most difficult thing is the Halycon in the desert) eclipses everyone else as a bossing tool for an excessively long time if you get it.
Having Wind/Water/Earth/Dark on one weapon is actually a really big niche because those are generally rare offensive elements especially for melees.
The fundamental "problem" with Guns and the other ranged weapons in the super long term (that only matters for the ass end of the game) is that they cant combo and instead crit.
TBM has a full suite of heavy armor because Xbows scale off strength and they only use magic for Cura and ailments (Indigo Pendant makes debuffs stick unless immune iirc). If you added actual offensive magic to their kit then they'd care more about magic, otherwise stacking as much str with their gear and using their weapon is the way to go.
Crossbows are different from 1H Bows because they have a collection of on hit ailments, however archers are not likely to use them because you get a bunch of strong high end bows for free and you can just make Dhanusha whenever you want. Assuming that crossbows on a whole are buffed, i'd see them as a flex option that shines most when using the Netsuke (oh wait you took that away from them).

>>3779428
>first played this when I was 12
>home alone one day without internet
>Got horny and switched to all the girls
>Penelo was the one that I had my eyes on during the bust.

>>3779425 (OP)
The Hulk Vayne final boss was disappointing for me too.

>>3785259
>oh wait you took that away from them
Poor baby's clitty hurts? Uh bwoo bloo bloo

>>3785301
If you just want me to call you a retard then I can oblige you. It doesnt seem like you're interested in any further discussion.

>>3785305
>If you just want me to call you a retard then I can oblige you. It doesnt seem like you're interested in any further discussion
You're the one being passive aggressive and trying to shoehorn your ideas in my mod. If you don't like how people respond to you, change your personality.

Also why would a mage need item healing? They don't have the gambit slots for it. An actual mage Time Mage would use gambit slots for buffing, buff removal, and demi spells.

Why does a mage need strength based weapons and augments when you can give them magic based weapons and augments? Why not make maces use magic?

You're emotionally attached to vanilla, dawg. Let it go. Try some sherbet.

If this isn't the venue for this discussion/argument/apetastic-shit-flinging, then drop your discord handle or some shit so we can exchange mod planning documents. No homo.

github link to you're mod??

>>3779425 (OP)
>I think it's one of the few Jrpgs where the dub is undeniable better than the original jap voice work
lol

>>3784678
And in english he was Brother in FFX/X-2. Now I can't unhear it during his scenes.

>>3779425 (OP)
>FF12s battle and job mechanics and gambits
>FF15s road trip world but fully fleshed out openness with full dungeons that are no longer small placeholders, with a completed in game story and fishing
>Stranger of Paradise tactical difficulty level, real difficulty where the empire dropships hunting you are a real threat, bosses are 80 percent or so of dark soul hard to 120 percent harder on New Game +, etc.
>FF16 Become the Esper mechanic instead of summons
>FF4-6 character story variety and spell roster

I give you the perfect FF.

>>3786132
>>FF16 Become the Esper mechanic instead of summons
On cap the best idea.

Imagine Terra but she manifests espers instead of getting a goofy 2x boost.

I have a plan for a 3d JRPG where there are two half-esper siblings like this. The boy manifests espers as a melee warrior, the girl as a caster.

And then there's a 12 year old girl who does Yuna/12 style esper summoning.

And there's a bog standard evoker summoner.

>>3786184
By manifest I mean she becomes a specific esper for a while. So manifesting Ifrit would see her grow horns and some fur, wreathe herself in fire, gain a couple firey claw attacks and a firey kick, able to cast all the fire spells but enhanced (along with her usual spells), absorb fire, weak to ice, gain some debuff immunities, and do on.

Then with the half esper siblings, the girl gets the mage parts and the boy augments his melee techniques with fire.

>>3784763
>So, it has dungeons and actual gameplay. Glad we agree.
Where in any of my posts do you think it says the opposite?
My point is that the gameplay is very boring and repetitive with minimal input from the player, not that there isn't gameplay.
Please stop with the faux smugness when you claim victory over an argument that was never presented.

why is this game still 50 usd on steam

>>3786303
Play the PS2 original
Better yet, play the English patched IZJS version.
Do the above while you wait for the Steam edition to go on sale for $20, which it does very regularly.

>>3786309
i heard this game was easy as heck without the hard mode patch which is why i wanted to play it on pc. i'm not really into ff games for this reason but i'm really interested in the battle system.

>>3786303
I've noticed a lot of publishers on steam are pretty much refusing to lower their base prices anymore, even for games that are 5+ years old. it's fucking insane

>>3786317
The main reason you play the remaster is because the QoL changes it brought are genuinely good changes, like they actually looked at what modders were doing that were popular with the community and said "we should put that officially in the game" in later patchers.

>>3785325
>shoehorn in ideas
i'm not trying to shoehorn shit into your mod. you're throwing out ideas and i'm telling you the ones that i don't agree with and explaining why i don't like them based on the current situation in the game.
>passive aggressive
what kind of response you expected when your "rebuttal" was childish as fuck?
>why would a mage need item healing
you have 12 gambits slots anon, the characters without healing spells are likely going to devote some of their slots to potions/phoenix downs/ailment removal.
>a time mage would use their gambit slots for buffing/buff removal/demi spells
when i used time mage in my previous playthrough, i had more gambits slots than i knew what to do with them because a lot of the spells were situational stuff that i had to turn on/off. this is literally the entire reason why i suggested adding classical offensive magic to the kit such as Quake (like in Bravely Default) or Comet/Meteor.
>Why would a mage care about their strength/strength augments
When the mage has a lot of magic spells that don't care about their magic stat (buffs/debuffs) and are carrying a weapon that scales off their strength stat. Alternatively, its the white mage situation where they do care about having any form of damage since it helps with mp generation.
>Why not make maces use magic
You mean something that they already do? Its just that Red Mages almost never attack normally.
>attached to vanilla
I have no problems with changing shit up. i'm just saying that you should consider current progression of items and whatever when making your changes. that's why i said that archer is not likely going to have any real use for crossbows in most runs.

>>3786317
Zodiac Age is IZJS with the optional ability to reset your license boards and use a second job. If you want an experience comparable to the difficulty in IZJS then just don't use the second board. Struggle for Freedom is for the people who are tired with IZJS/TZA and want to deal with stronger enemies and functionally forcing everyone to a specific playstyle.

I really loved this Fucking game. No other game has felt more like a single player MMORPG, which should be the goal of all RPGs, than this Fucking FFXII game.

>>3787409
>i'm not trying to shoehorn shit into your mod. you're throwing out ideas and i'm telling you the ones that i don't agree with and explaining why i don't like them based on the current situation in the game.
If you can't see the big picture or you don't connect ideas across multiple posts (possibly because you're a LLM), then how else can I interpret this?

>you have 12 gambits slots anon, the characters without healing spells are likely going to devote some of their slots to potions/phoenix downs/ailment removal.
Yeah, someone has to revive the White Mage but again I'm including multiple tiers of more powerful healing items including phoenix downs. Everyone who isn't a White Mage or Machinist doesn't need to be able to solo heal the entire party.

>when i used time mage in my previous playthrough, i had more gambits slots than i knew what to do with them because a lot of the spells were situational stuff that i had to turn on/off. this is literally the entire reason why i suggested adding classical offensive magic to the kit such as Quake (like in Bravely Default) or Comet/Meteor.
Ally: Any | Revert (new Time spell, remove Reverse)
Ally: Slow | Haste
Ally: Any | Sync (new Time spell, removes Slow and Stop)
Self: HP < 10% | Balance
Enemy: Current HP > 100,000 | Graviga
Enemy: Nearest | Meteor (or Comet)
Ally: Any | Float
Ally: Any | Haste (AoE about 1/2 that of Hastega)

That's 8 Gambits. Assuming you aren't doing a solo job run you now have 4 gambits left for whatever your other job provides.

Now do you understand why it's a complete waste of time for me to throw ideas at you when you can't see the entire picture?

>>3787409
>what kind of response you expected when your "rebuttal" was childish as fuck?
What am I supposed to do when you refuse to listen to anything I say? Am I supposed to be a bitch and go "well dear I guess you're right, I'll just change every idea I have planned" because you can't extrapolate across multiple posts, or you won't/can't read an entire text document with all of my job changes for mages?

What would you do in this circumstance?

>When the mage has a lot of magic spells that don't care about their magic stat (buffs/debuffs) and are carrying a weapon that scales off their strength stat. Alternatively, its the white mage situation where they do care about having any form of damage since it helps with mp generation.
In that case it's better to give Time Mage more speed and MP so they can cast those spells faster and without interruption.

> Its just that Red Mages almost never attack normally.
You would have a reason to do so if Maces had higher power, a higher combo rate, and more useful on-hit and passive effects.

>I have no problems with changing shit up. i'm just saying that you should consider current progression of items and whatever when making your changes. that's why i said that archer is not likely going to have any real use for crossbows in most runs.
The current progression will be completely thrown out the fucking window. All speculation based on that is a waste of time. You're demanding that I re-explain shit I already explained in a previous post, then shitting on an idea because it's not some munchkin bullshit that let's you harvest dopamine for your "move stick to win" power fantasy.

Either give me some means of communicating my whole ass Mage plan with you, agree to read a fairly large text document on pastebin, or fuck off.

>>3787767
>>3787768
Grow the fuck up if you can't take people disagreeing with you. Throwing out insults willy nilly during a discussion is not helping your case whatsoever.
>Disagreeing with everything you say
Are you so blind that you haven't noticed that we both agree that Time Magic could use some fleshing out? Or the fact that I haven't said anything negative about suggestions like adding Crossbows to Knights?
>The big picture
The only person here who knows everything about this hypothetical mod of yours is you. Any feedback is logically going to be colored based on what little information you've revealed and how we know the original game.

For example, if you actually bothered to elaborate more on what you wanted to give each job from the initial outset then we wouldn't be back and forth on the fucking Netsuke for days. You don't even need to go all out with listing the docs. Just basic ass shit.

>>3787768
>Acting like a sarcastic passive aggressive bitch is certainly going to get people to listen to you
Lol
>You would have a reason to do so if Maces had higher power, a higher combo rate, and more useful on-hit and passive effects.
You've been saying that for basically everything. I really want to see how you plan on having a mace that's good enough to make a Red Mage break from spamming Firaga/Thundaga/Blizzaga/Darkga or whatever healing. Maybe if the mace was capable of hitting an element that their spells couldn't do normally which is something similar to the existing RDM/ARC combo where they might consider using bows for earth weaknesses.
>In that case it's better to give Time Mage more speed and MP so they can cast those spells faster and without interruption.
Aren't you giving them Magic CT0? That passive on a job is just going to warp the game's balance around it since basically every magic job would run TM as a sub as its way more valuable than MP reduction passives. You can get MP from doing/taking damage and Charge/Ether/Elixir exist. You'd have to do something like seriously gut MP generation or massively increase MP costs to make me want to do anything else. But then if you increase too much MP Costs then it turns into the Red Mage/X show since you decided to give Red Mages MP=0.
You see where this is going right?

>>3787768
>agree to read a fairly large text document on pastebin
post it, pussy

this story is actually so good what the fuck? i’m only 20 hours in and this plot is more interesting and fun than any of the fucking game of thrones novels. vaan is garbage though. all the other characters are pretty fun.

>>3788154
Yeah, people who complained about the story were fucking retarded and mindlessly mashed or were on their phones. Matsuno always delivers on political stories.

>>3788160
awesome ya I'm hyped for the rest of it. I was worried it would start to get worse because I heard he quit half way through. there really hasn't been any low points just thourally interesting and fun. its pretty cool exploring the ff tactics world in general. the races look pretty acturate to the tactics design.

Noob Question: Monsters are taking forever to die am I doing it wrong? I eventually win, but is the intended game design it just takes like a moderate amount of time for everything to die? Nothing drops any gold so I can’t afford good weapons yet.

>>3787768
Post your doc

>>3788657
Sell the loot you get from monsters. That will build up your capital and allow you to buy better gear.

>>3788702
ohh thanks like all the wolf pelts and shit? that’s not usable for anything?

>>3788752
Consult the loot no-sell list on gamefaqs, you want to save some stuff. Just write it all down on a sheet of paper and tape it next to your TV or monitor, it's pretty small. Move those items to the top of your loot list along with your teleport stones and gyshal greens so you don't accidentally sell them.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps4/191202-final-fantasy-xii-the-zodiac-age/faqs/75574

>>3787858
>>3788669
Cleaning up a part of it right now lol, give me 4 hours.

>>3788154
>>3788160
The story is really good, it's just delivered poorly. They made the VAs do Japanisms like the breathy talking and repeating the last relevant phrase said to them far too often. Also Vaan sounds retarded and talks like a fag.

Now that we can mod it I can turn Vaan into a proper street ruffian (taller, thinner) and I can use AI to make him sound like it too.

I also want to give a shout out to the FF12 modding discord for banning political discussion (and (((political discussion)))) and being extremely professional and tolerant of booba modding, extremely good work guys.

>>3788762
Had a thought while considering gambits for the document: imagine how much better FF12 would be if each gambit slot had a NOT switch you could flip for the conditional on each gambit. It would fix so many issues.

NOT Foe: Undead - Cast Drain

https://pastebin.com/cWZqjgPN
^ Anyways, here's the provisional list of changes for mages and spells.

https://pastebin.com/raw/cWZqjgPN
^If you want to download it as a text file in one link.

>>3788762
Cool thanks so much! Haha, ya Vaan sounds pretty lame. Isn’t his whole character just lame though? Does better voice acting make I’m captain basch or over here bucket head less lame?

>>3788902
>Vaan sounds pretty lame. Isn’t his whole character just lame though? Does better voice acting make I’m captain basch or over here bucket head less lame?
Voice acting makes it worse.

I'd probably steal Elijah Wood's voice for any AI voice acting stuff. Nick Mullen might work too, if we edit Vaan to be taller and less dorky.

Ashe's voice actor is fine, just need to edit her speech.

>>3788891
TLDR What am I looking at? Mod suggestions for rebalancing under the zodiac system? Or just self imposing one job? Self imposed only fully unlocking one job board per character is already viable no?

>>3788891
I think you should get away from the idea that mages have to use "mage weapons". Look at FF4 for example, Rosa is known for bows and Rydia had the option to use whips. The debuff specialist in FFT used a physically minded weapon as well. Even in classic FF1, white mages could use hammers. Think about what kind of theme or flavor you want the specific job to have and the rest would logically follow. Having over 13 weapon types only for the same handful to be shared by the mages would be incredibly boring.
I don't really see the point of having 3 different variants of Gravity in particular but its your mod.
>>3788902
>>3788762
Vaan's not really some big time thief or street ruffian. He's just a kid that's in over his head. From a party composition standpoint and narrative, he's actually one of the more important ones since his existence is the one thing tying everyone together among other things.

>>3789203
1. Two jobs per character.
2. Each job is exclusive to whoever selects it first, unless the detrain at the clan HQ.

>>3789367
>The debuff specialist in FFT used a physically minded weapon as well.
This is false, sticks/poles are MA powered in FFT

>Think about what kind of theme or flavor you want the specific job to have and the rest would logically follow. Having over 13 weapon types only for the same handful to be shared by the mages would be incredibly boring.
Mechanics > Theming & Flavor

>I don't really see the point of having 3 different variants of Gravity in particular but its your mod
25%, 50%, 75%

>I think you should get away from the idea that mages have to use "mage weapons". Look at FF4 for example, Rosa is known for bows and Rydia had the option to use whips.
Point of mage weapons is synergy with existing roles (empower holy on White Mage weapons), add new ways to practice existing roles (weapon healing on White Mage), defense (evasion), or new roles (Poles on Time Mage).

>Vaan's not really some big time thief or street ruffian. He's just a kid that's in over his head. From a party composition standpoint and narrative, he's actually one of the more important ones since his existence is the one thing tying everyone together among other things.
I've been homeless, it changes your personality permanently. Plus Vaan is literally a thief.

>>3789377
>Sticks/Poles are MA Powered
And the way to optimize their damage output is to run doublehand like a physical character. They're surprisingly good at it. The point is that poles arent traditionally considered to be mage weapons in this series.
>Mechanics
The point of having a variety of weapon options that are spread out is that it lets jobs have different peaks/throughs throught the game. Furthermore, it cuts down on the number of superfluous options in the game.

>>3789388
>The point of having a variety of weapon options that are spread out is that it lets jobs have different peaks/throughs throught the game. Furthermore, it cuts down on the number of superfluous options in the game.
Mages have a good amount of action options already. Other than Red Mage (whose role is all options, limited power growth), I'm leaving the multi-weapon stuff to the warrior jobs with fewer options. Breaker, Monk, Archer all would have no magic, so they get more weapons.

>>3789388
>And the way to optimize their damage output is to run doublehand like a physical character. They're surprisingly good at it. The point is that poles arent traditionally considered to be mage weapons in this series.
But it does strongly synergize in FFT.

I have an almost complete mod plan for FFT as well. It's easier to edit weapons there, I have about 6 weapon types for them there. Weapon editing is harder in FF12, so I can't go as crazy here.

If I could, I'd create these mage weapon groups.
> Wands: long range elemental blasts, magic vs magic defense.
> Books: AoE blasts with various effects.
> 1 handed rods. Similar to 2 handed, but weaker.
> 1 handed staves. As above.
> 1 handed maces. As above.
> Mystical shields (contrasted with light and heavy).

>>3789441
And what weapons do you plan on giving them? Remember, each weapon needs a niche else you get a job with 6 options but only 1/2 are actively used.
12 has more weapons than jobs anyway.

>>3789474
>And what weapons do you plan on giving them? Remember, each weapon needs a niche else you get a job with 6 options but only 1/2 are actively used.
>12 has more weapons than jobs anyway.
I'm not sure.

I think I have one extra job, probably Green Mage, so I need to remove a job to fit in the available job slots unless a new job can be added.

Jobs defined by weapons are harder to balance when most other jobs are defined by their skills or the whole package. For this reason I think I'll make the following changes.

Half Mages

> Knight: all 1h swords, all 2h swords, some rods, shields, all heavy armor, some mystic armor, some White magic, few techniques. Typical Paladin.

> Ninja: all knives, all ninja swords, some rods, shields, all light armor, some mystic armor, some black magic, few techniques. Throwback to Ogre Battle ninjas.

> Dragoon: all axes, all spears, some maces, shields, all heavy armor, some mystic armor, some green magic, some techniques. Throwback to various lancet powered dragoons.

> Samurai: all hammers, all katanas, some poles, all heavy armor, some mystic armor, some time magic, some techniques. Kind of it's own thing, better spells than vanilla.

> Red Mages: equips everything yet only the lowest tier (there are 3 tiers), wide spell selection from all mage jobs, few techniques. Exists to beef up mages and give them 0 MP augment or give warriors wider spell selection, better magic power, wider weapon options, and 0 MP augment.

Non-Mages

> Ranger : Formerly Archer. Uses many knives, many 1h swords, many 2h swords, all bows, shields, some heavy armor, all light armor, no magic, many techniques, many item augments. Fast & versatile warrior at any range.

>>3789474
> Monk: uses many axes, many ninja swords, many katanas, many spears, brawler augment, all hand bombs, some heavy armor, all light armor, no magic, many techniques, many item augments if I can't make monk techniques. Role is a cheaper warrior who can use leftover weapons, but still tough and fast front line fighter with unreliable long range weapons.

> Machinist: uses many hammers, all measures, all crossbows, all guns, some heavy armor, all light armor, no magic, many techniques, all item augments. Role is reliable long range support warrior with unreliable melee.

>>3789504
Confused about Knight & Ninja using rods or staves; each uses whatever weapon the mage job whose magic it inherits also uses.

Foebreaker really is a dumb job, seems like they dumped all the leftover stuff there. Nice techniques though.

>>3789508
The job system is them trying to force 12 jobs in a system that wasnt meant for it. That's why you get weirdly designed jobs or funny shit like Archer being the closest thing to a classical FF Thief/Alchemist (Steal, Poach, almost every item lore and light armor).

>>3789474
I realize that I did not properly answer your question in the posts I made (linked below) because I haven't done a complete equipment plan yet, but if you'd like that then ask and I'll get it done in maybe 20 hours.

As more ideas become fleshed out, others will have to be reconsidered. Red Mage for example may be very bad as it is currently planned, I may need to give it -ra spells and some tier 2 equipment.

I have ideas of what I want to do with enemies too, but I need to set up a modding environment so I can see what the data is like before I start planning there.

>>3789512
>The job system is them trying to force 12 jobs in a system that wasnt meant for it. That's why you get weirdly designed jobs or funny shit like Archer being the closest thing to a classical FF Thief/Alchemist (Steal, Poach, almost every item lore and light armor).

I don't think it's impossible to have a good job system with 12 jobs, but Square Enix certainly didn't accomplish it.

Image is a link to the surprisingly apolitical discord server with all of their mod stuff.

They have a formula editor, data table editors, media exporters, all kinds of stuff. You can edit almost everything about the game. I recommend the UI improvements and the Fran coomer mods.

>>3789608
I plan on playing the Planetary Age Mod in the near future. I replay 12 like every other year.

this thread made me buy the steam version
>on break from uni
>home alone for 3 weeks
yeah, i'm thinking it's gaming time

This thread prompted me to get it on Switch. Man, I wish I had played it sooner. Gambit > RTwP, like holy shit it doesn’t come close. Perfect balance.

I also hadn’t played any of the games between X and XV (Did play XIV up to Stormblood for a year when I had broken up with my girlfriend, she didn’t let me have sex with men), and couldn’t really understand how the series pivoted so strongly towards an action adventure series of games. But this I can see how you end up at XV naturally.

god if you hear me i love this game so much

Why is the voice acting in this game so good compared to everything else??? The voice acting in even modern dragon quest and xenoblade is so fucking terrible. Even Vaan is fucking Shakespeare compared to that shit. Modern english voice actors are garbage. That said I’m scared to see what happens in the tactics remake.

>>3791068
>Why is the voice acting in this game so good compared to everything else
Clear direction. Casting based on what would benefit the work the most artistically and aligns closest with the characters rather than hiring big names for brand recognition. A worthy script that actually deserves quality reading and not a bunch of recycled anime-tier lines that are impossible to give a shit about, let alone deliver well.

The two jobs really seem like they make everyone too strong. Is 1 job enough to make it a better challenge or has anyone come up with some decent rules to create a bit of a harder game?

>>3791075
i’m only half way through ish (i think? just arrived at the empire) but i’ve leveled everyone equally and only have one job class per character. the trash mobs are still easy. most of the harder bosses i had to do try at least twice. it’s my first play through though. i think something like gambit only and no mist would be fun and a bit harder. so far i like the only one job per character so im going to continue that. that said bosses take a fair amount of time and my black mage character kind of sucks right now. i might have accidentally specs’d more tank than dps

>>3791075
It was balanced around 1 job but the game is still on the easy side once you know what you're doing.
>>3791126
Black Mage requires you to consistently swap staves around based on strongest spell and/or most common weakness. Eg. If you're fighting Wind weak enemies, wear the Cherry Staff and mash Aero(ga). Dont forget to maintain spell boosting augments and to bring a Faith caster along (WHM or Knight).

What does your guy’s gambits look like? Is there anything interesting you can do with non casters? I arbitrarily made fran my white mage early on... kind of regret that. My one negative about this game is changing the gear doesn’t change the outfit. How awesome would that have been?

>>3791519
Hello Australia. Anyway, Fran is one of the best white mages. You did nothing wrong.

>>3791519
Charge
Self Silence Removal
Disease Removal
Ally Any: Raise
Ally HP < 40%: Cure Family
Status Cures
Foe HP = 100: Steal
Foe Undead: Cure Family
Foe Nearest: Attack

There was some other stuff but that works.

If you still dont own this game/want to use mods on PC, its $20 on Steam right now.

>>3791546
>>3791549
Ah, cool thanks. Neat, I didn’t know you could do stuff like that.

>>3787578
>No other game has felt more like a single player MMORPG
dothack?

>>3779425 (OP)
>FFXII
>Masterpiece

>>3779425 (OP)
The only people who like FFXII are the people who were children when it came out and played it as their first FF game. XII was the start of the decline. X was the last truly great offline FF game.

>>3792428
>you must have the same opinion as me, otherwise you are mentally ill
lol

>>3792430
Why is this shitty opinion regurgitated so much online by midwits?

>>3792323
holy shit .hack was awesome. you had your desktop os and email and people would message you to meet at random servers and the story was cool too. 4 ps2 dvds with anime on it too but your character transferred over. I loved it as a teenager. i remember the anime being bad though. something about getting email that’s not spam was fun.

>>3787578
holy based gigachad

This is how I remember playing it:
Ashe: Uhlan
Basch: Samurai
Vaan: Breaker
Fran: Black Mage
Penelo: White Mage
Balthier: Monk

easily the best mainline FF

>>3793335
not really.

Vann felt pointless as a character

>>3793122

.hack//SIGN was great though.

>>3793349
Unfortunately, ever since crap like Log Horizon and Sword Art Online hit the scene, it's impossible to find anyone who still (correctly) believes that dot hack sign is the pinnacle of MMO anime. Unfortunately, a lot of what makes it so special is lost to time because back then, there weren't as many online games to reference (the formula we know today from WoW was also not yet refined), the internet was just starting to creep into the mainstream, and there was still enough mystique around it that the "game" side of the story wasn't developed enough to overshadow the deep character writing and more thoughtful elements of the show.
Notice how MMOs and adjacent anime were better when people were still imagining what these games -could- be like instead of having something to reference that shows what they are -actually- like.
The only good thing that ever came out of SAO was the line about how "there is nothing more boring than watching someone else play a game" which rings ironic for the show since it wants to focus on THE GAME so hard, yet the actual best moments of the show are the episodes that have fuck all to do with THE GAME.
Dot Hack knew early on that you could only do so much with "watching people play a game" and made sure to focus on actual meaningful shit.

>>3782037
I don't think you really did NEED to do that in X, I think you could get by with a lot less than what all the faqs for 2002 hyper-autists planned out for you
that said I quit after I reached the point where spamming wakka's overdrive became too slow so maybe I'm wrong

>>3793427
>>3793349
nah. just play the game.

Just beat it. Really good, but I don’t think it’s something I’d come back to for a long while. The story is awesome and the cutscenes are very cool. The whole magical kingdom with airships at war is an awesome universe. There’s lots of fun stuff to see. That last dungeon was fun and had some cool puzzles. Here’s my only negative: the melee jobs are genetically too good imho. They can just sit there and auto attack and your white mage can auto heal and status cure. I never used the summons at all and the limit breaks once every couple boss fights. You feel super smart when you get your gambits just right, but I think if I replay it some day I’ll just manually enter all the commands and not use gambits at all. Not that they’re bad. But I think playing without them is closer to what I’m used to with the rest of the series. The heroes are pretty great too. I think Vaan isn’t so bad once you realize he’s basically just a side character apprenticing Balthier, but ya overall the story would probably be better without Vaan and Pom. Great game 8/10. Thanks for the thread.

>>3793602
Balthier is a really funny character because he has a lot of hype and backstory but in the game, he doesnt actually do all that much in the grand scheme of things. The game leads you to think that Balthier would be Vaan's mentor and then once Ashe joins, everything stops as the cast follows her on the journey and maybe get their 5 minutes of fame once in a while.

>>3793657
Yaaaa I basically agree with you. Fran and Balthier get their own story beats, but they’re pretty short. They really don’t do any pirating. They’re basically just Han Solo and Chewy level deep characters. But ya Ashe is 100% the main character. She’s not bad. But definitely less fun haha.

Anyone do all of the Clan shit? I basicaly just skipped it completely and followed the main quest. Now I'm thinking of going back through 12 for the sidequest stuff.

Why didn't Ashe fuck Vaan?

>>3794916
She was saving herself for Larsa

FFXII is probably the most beautiful looking game of all time. The amount of animations they had to make just for the main cast blows me away.
The IZJS doesn't go far enough to placate my autistic need to specialize each character. I just set up a custom license board where a bridge of common HP and gambit nodes running down the centre splits off into completely separate branches for each weapon, armor and magick type. Battle and magick nodes have their own branch, along with general augments like swiftness, which I don't dip into at all unless I get walled by a boss or something. Doubt it will happen as this game is easy as fuck.
Penelo and Ashe are maces, shields, black and white magic. Fran is axes and time magic. Basch is item lores, sword and shield, Balthier the same with daggers, they'll probably both get green magic too. Vaan is pretty much a white mage.

None of this has made the game more fun. Not even a little bit. thanks for reading

>>3795354
Fun build. Doesn’t white mage feel OP? The Arise is nuts when you can just zerg bosses. I might try without it. Even just with vanilla single job builds there went a lot of battles I had to manually control. The hardest part for me was all the status effects. But the machinist gets a buffed remedy so once you add that full health revive + status cure bitch feels invincible. I had Vaan be a rogue, but honestly it seems like a pretty shit job. I’ll have to try something else.

>>3794813
Hunts have a lot of good items and extra areas locked behind them. In fact in non modded content, doing all of them as soon as they open up make the game, too easy especially the harder ones like Antlion etc. So its a good to pace them.
>>3794916
Vaan already had Penelo.
>>3795366
Shikari or whatever its called is mediocre.

>>3783416
I can appreciate your approach, but to me it just feels weird to do desu. To me a game should be judged on the experience of actually finishing it, rather than only playing some of it you know?
Though even if there wasn't the tonberry grind I still wouldn't like the game. I hated the sidequests, found the story and characters melodramatic, the world too linear, and the combat too simple. Blitzball was ok I guess.

>>3779425 (OP)
>Autoplay battle system
>Story is almost nonexistent after getting the first summon
>Fake MMO maps that destroy balance
Pass. And people have the fucking audacity to shit on XIII while praising this

ashe is breedable as hell, game is shit though

Young me fapped way too hard to Ashe. That skirt is crazy

>>3779425 (OP)
>I think it's one of the few Jrpgs where the dub is undeniable better than the original jap voice work
If only people inclined towards dubs didn’t say that for every game

graphics didn’t have to get any better than what this is

>>3799667
it's not graphical fidelity but art direction that matters

>>3799667
Good graphics were never a bad thing, developers just use it as an excuse to do no work when really the issue is outsourcing work to pajeets.

>>3779461
genuinely, i don't understand why people think this way
please explain it to me, how is selecting the moves once, and letting the game autorun the move 10,000 times, different than selecting the same move 10,000 times
like what part of your brain makes that different for you? because for me there's no difference

>>3802305
It's not a complaint I agree with, but I do get it. In one of those situations, you are engaging, if only slightly. In the other, you're letting the game do it for you, letting your mind wander even more than it otherwise would.

I’ve been playing through the older final fantasy pixel remasters. In the NES version you’re really incentivized to use AOE spells so you can save resources and clear dungeons faster. There’s a balance between exploring the dungeon for loot and having enough magic and items to beat the boss or run back to town to heal. I think that’s a thing people who play only remasters or newer JRPGs don’t realize. A lot of the strategy is in resource management and jobs for the early final fantasies. You make it to the boss with a few curas and a phoenix down, but you could also warp back. Modern FF remasters let you retry every room on game over so you basically always just give attack bosses because there’s no downside. You won’t have to rerun the whole dungeon. Anyways my point is clicking attack attack potion defend attack isn’t really the main strategy of final fantasy games imho. It’s more just knowing what spells and items to use now and which to save given the job classes you have. I think FF12 holds true to that as well. I think gambits are neat, but they really don’t add too much. Not having no to do stuff like oh my guys keep getting poisoned so I’ll add an auto cast to heal poison is nice, but I think that’s something I still find fun to do manually. Maybe I’m just old.

>>3779487

I agree, Vaan is a decent character, his issue is that Tidus unironically MOGGED him and set the bar too high

>>3781401
No it's more like FF7 Remake but you only attack when your ATB is full

I want to play FF12 for the first time (I played it once on the PS2 as a kid but never went far). I have Zodiac Age but I also want it to not be an absolute easymode cakewalk to beat with my eyes closed.
How do I go for that, New Game Minus or should I just never pick second job?


And what about that Struggle for Freedom mod

>>3779425 (OP)
I fully agree OP, 12 is incredible and ZA made it even better
One of the few games where I was shocked at how quickly and effortlessly my playtime shot into hundreds of hours
There’s so much to do, so much to explore, so many team comps, the challenge mode, all the new game plus options and QOL upgrades
It’s a masterpiece

>>3795366
>>3796600

Shikari is a hidden tank job. It has shields and main gauche, making it really hard for enemies to hit it.

It is also the only job besides Machinist who gets access to guns, which is neat.

I played every FF from 1 to 10. I loved Tactics and so always thought 12 would be the only other FF worth playing. I’ve had it in my backlog for a while and just tried installing it last night out of desperation for anything worth playing.

So the game just plays itself and I sit there and watch battles happen? And then as soon as I got to the tutorial where you open up the area map, and the whole
map is literally a long skinny hallway. What the fuck. I alt f4’d as soon as I saw that.

>>3806701
>So the game just plays itself and I sit there and watch battles happen?
Only if you tell it to. Wanna play the game? Play it, instead of telling it to play itself.
>>3806701
>And then as soon as I got to the tutorial where you open up the area map, and the whole
>map is literally a long skinny hallway.
Are you talking about the 5 minute tutorial area with Reks?

>>3806668
After a while practically every relevant enemy in the game ignores evasion which makes Main Gauche + Shield into a meme. I'd rather just use Blind/Silence/Sleep/Disable on the enemies where they work or just burst the enemies down.

>>3806908
>Are you talking about the 5 minute tutorial area with Reks?
Yes.

>>3807585
That is not indicative of the game on the whole.