> Classic Fallout fans: "Fallout 1 is full of morally ambiguous choices"

The "morally ambiguous choices" in question:

"Hm... Should I fix Necropolis' water purification system after taking their control chip, or should I not?" In other words: "Should I doom this entire city to die of thirst when I have no actual reason to, or not?"

> Classic Fallout fans: "Fallout 4's moral choices are just between clearly-defined good guys and bad guys"

Fallout 4's main moral choice:

"Should I assist this technologically advanced faction that wants to secure the future of humanity through technological innovation but at the cost of the abduction and terrorizing of innocent people? Do the long term ends of progress and the revitalization of human civilization justify the short term means?"

Remind me why people consider the old Fallout games to be the superior RPGs again? Is it just nostalgia?

>>3781564 (OP)
nobody gives a fuck about either of these made up scenarios in your head
fallout 1 had good gameplay and was very well paced
fall out 4 is slop

>>3781575
> made up scenarios in your head

They're literally both in the games retard

>>3781579
What is your iq? high 70s? You're making up people to argue with
>> Classic Fallout fans: "Fallout 1 is full of morally ambiguous choices"
That is the made up scenario I'm referring to. Genuinely kill yourself for being so stupid.

>>3781564 (OP)
Boomers hype up old games that don't live up to the hype when played after 20 years of gaming.

>>3781564 (OP)
>Are the old Fallouts really better?
Yes.

>>3781564 (OP)
>Classic Fallout fans: "Fallout 1 is full of morally ambiguous choices"
Nobody fucking says that.
>"Should I assist this technologically advanced faction that wants to secure the future of humanity through technological innovation but at the cost of the abduction and terrorizing of innocent people? Do the long term ends of progress and the revitalization of human civilization justify the short term means?"
Not supported in any way by the story, the Institute is painted as either too malevolent or too incompetent to be trusted, ergo bad guys.

Bullshit like this is half of why this board is going to shit.

>>3781564 (OP)
>Remind me why people consider the old Fallout games to be the superior RPGs again
because they aren't first person shooters where you drink from toilets and interact with retarded bethshit quest design

whatever "moral" shit you are harping on about is completely irrelevant. the fact is that bethesda doesn't make games for people who like rpgs. it's fine if that's your thing, but don't be surprised when people who like rpgs disagree, you'll just confuse yourself because you are starting from a premise of not understanding what an rpg is, think it's some cyoa shit.

>Create a strawman that nobody agrees with
>Knock it down and proclaim victory
>Many such cases!

i don't play games to make "moral choices" idk who came up with this idea but it's bad and awful

>>3781609
when i see a moral choice in a game i imagine some corporate dickheads in business casual in a conference room

>>3781564 (OP)
Aside from your cherry picking/straw manning, yes. The original fallouts are better role playing games than the later ones.
That said, Fallout 2 is superior to 2 and I don't understand why codexfags keep saying otherwise

>>3781616
>Fallout 2 is superior to 2
woah

>>3781616
>Fallout 2 is superior to 2

>>3781620
>>3781638
True falloutheads know
I'm hungover

>>3781564 (OP)
they are better RPGs due to actually using an abstracted ruleset and not being consolefag action RPGs in an open world . the 3d games are overhated and are serviceable games with good enough writing, but are awful if you are an RPG fan

>>3781564 (OP)
Fallout 1 had more punishing mechanics that incentivized roleplaying. If you put any of your attributes below 4 you’d be crippling your character to the point where the game becomes unplayable or near unplayable depending on special. If you nuked your intelligence then everyone treats you like the mentally challenged retard you are and it locks you out of half the quests. Compare that to fagout 4 where you can have a charisma of 1, dress like a faggot and get drunk and magically be able to talk your way out of everything. Too many features are purely mechanical with no roleplaying interaction in 4. Also regarding your scenario of antagonists, the Master explains himself thoroughly, to the point where it’s actually really stupid how he didn’t immediately change the experiments to allow mutants to reproduce after learning their biggest flaw instead of.. killing himself. The Institute fails to explain their motives. Father literally tells you “you wouldn’t understand” and that’s supposed to be sufficient enough explanation. Emil cannot write anything complex, and if Fallout 3 didn’t reuse the Enclave as major antagonists then 3 would undoubtably have a similar problem. In any case, Necropolis only loses their water supply because your Vault dies if you don’t take their chip. You can very well run a character with repair too low to fix their pump and fuck over the ghouls for the survival of your own community. It’s an unfortunate outcome done for good reasons having no other way to prevent it. That’s vastly different than nuking a town for the sake of nuking a town while having no justifiable reason for nuking them, as is the case in Fallout 3.

>>3781775
>If you put any of your attributes below 4 you’d be crippling your character to the point where the game becomes unplayable or near unplayable
>Compare that to fagout 4 where you can have a charisma of 1, dress like a faggot and get drunk and magically be able to talk your way out of everything.
Charisma is completely useless in Fallout 1. You can get through every dialogue just fine with a charisma of 1.

Short answer: yes
Long answer: yes, faggot

>>3781796
Charisma affects speech skill as well as disposition of speech checks, the checks themselves being hidden. If you don’t want to play a diplomatic character that’s great but regardless of that Fallout 1 still has a better system for it than later titles. There’s nothing you can do to get better charisma outside of direct stat investment. If a player wants that function than he has to make sacrifices to other special. A character in Fallout 3 or 4 can have all the benefits of high charisma by dumping it, drinking alcohol and mentats while changing outfits without having to sacrifice other special.

>>3781564 (OP)
If you’re just evaluating moral complexity on a single “major choice,” Fallout 4 probably wins. But if you’re looking at systemic reactivity and roleplaying depth, fallout 4 hasn't advanced on fallout 1.

>>3781801
I'm pretty sure 90% of speech checks are visible due to int and passed due to speech. chr is really just the base modifier of speech and is more important for companions

>>3781801
>Charisma affects speech skill as well as disposition of speech checks
Both of which have very little effect on the game. Charisma 10 gives you an initial 18% bonus to speech as opposed to charisma 1. Neat but not that important. With a charisma 1 character you can just tag speech and make up that difference after your first level up. And the effect of charisma on reaction checks is also negligible with all the other things that affect NPC disposition a lot more, like solving quests, karma and what you decide to say to them (being mean vs being nice). So no, charisma is an absolute trash stat in Fallout 1.

I don't think there's any debate about charisma being the worst stat in fallout 1

Bethesda's writing and world-building is absolutely retarded. Fallout 1 is only slightly retarded, 2 moreso.

>>3781815
>I don't think there's any debate about charisma being the worst stat in fallout 1
Lol, just lol if you don't roleplay Fallout as a paladin, rolling a high-CHA heavily-armored warrior who progresses through melee weapons into big guns

>>3781801
>Charisma affects speech skill
lol, barely

>>3781564 (OP)
>Fallout 4's moral choices are just between clearly-defined good guys and bad guys
Nobody said that, that criticism targeted Fallout 3. Fallout 4 factions are more nuanced yes. They’re still awfully written tho

>TVD:kill yourself
>the master:OK
WOW THIS GAME SUCKS
>Courier:kill yourself
>general lanius:OK
HOLY SHIT THIS GAME IS AMAZEBALLS

>>3781564 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8U4k2Ik6yk

>>3781564 (OP)
>no actual reason not to
Necropolis ghouls are prickly difficult to work with faggots who might shoot you and can barely manage their internal affairs without a militarized squad of super mutants pushing their shit in?
not to mention the fact that you're on a limited time table and every day you waste trying to save people who hate your guts your people are dying of thirst

>>3781940
>game's most interesting feature is combat
>people think it's good to skip that with a dialogue option
some rpg fans are retarded

>>3782002
>Durrr choices bad, shooting good
People like you are the reason why the Fallout series got reduced to a first person shooter with perks.

>>3782072
dialogue choices are literally circumventing gameplay, skipping content, skipping mechanics, skipping engagement.
besides a first person shooter isn't an rpg, it being "reduced" to that isn't anything but a genre shift where "choices" can still abound because dialogue "choices" don't make an rpg and can be applied to any genre of video game.
fallout was hoisted on the petard of its own cyoa book proclivities.

>>3781564 (OP)
I agree with all the points regarding the shortfalls of fo1, till I got to the master
After that single conversation, my entire viewpoint on the game shifted from it being black / white to being nuanced
Cracks do appear, and they're huge ones at that. But at the end of the day, I can say that they learned from fo1, fo2, the abandoned one and fo3 to make fnv
Can't say the same for Emil's pukeslop
Go suck his and Todd's dick someplace else

>>3781564 (OP)
fallout4 has no moral choices because it has no morality and no consequences. whatever you do doesnt matter doesnt impact world, doesnt make sense, will be retconned before next game and stop asking questions in a game with talking mutants

>>3782092
Dialogue is gameplay and content in a role-playing game.
If you'd rather just fight everything, don't put a single point in a speech skill in any of your characters.

>>3782162
it's extremely lazy content with almost no real interesting mechanics to interact with.
compare putting points into a single skill and clicking an option vs. leveling skills, adjusting and finding weapons, using abilities, positioning your character, encountering different enemy types, etc.
combat in rpgs is just far more complex of a game mechanic than dialogue options and it more fully uses the game concepts that are the origins of rpgs.

>>3782092
>dialogue choices are literally circumventing gameplay, skipping content, skipping mechanics, skipping engagement.
You could say the same about other choices that an RPG gives you. Skill choices, faction choices etc. You're basically arguing against any form of choice because it doesn't give you access to all the content in one playthrough which is a really fucking stupid thing to say when talking about RPGs.
>besides a first person shooter isn't an rpg
No shit. Did I say it was? The series becoming a different genre over time was my whole point. What the fuck are you even arguing here?
>fallout was hoisted on the petard of its own cyoa book proclivities.
I hope you didn't forget to tip your fedora after writing this sentence.

>>3782188
>You could say the same about other choices that an RPG gives you. Skill choices, faction choices etc
absolutely not, dialogue choices are extremely barebones, they are flag based and there aren't really multiple interacting systems at play like there are with character building with a combat emphasis.
>You're basically arguing against any form of choice because it doesn't give you access to all the content
no, i'm arguing that those choices are lazily developed and comparatively uninteresting from a gameplay perspective.
>What the fuck are you even arguing here?
that nothing i said would lead to an rpg becoming a shooter.
>I hope you didn't forget to tip your fedora
did you think that was stylistically pretentious because it used 3 dollar words instead of 2? lmao, you anti-intellectual kids are funny, that's basic english.

>>3782195
>did you think that was stylistically pretentious because it used 3 dollar words instead of 2?
Yes. That sentence reeked of someone desperate to sound smarter than they actually are.

>lmao, you anti-intellectual kids are funny, that's basic english.
Seriously though, I'm the one arguing for more developed social interactions in RPGs while you're just interested in combat mechanics. I don't know man, you're weird.

>>3781564 (OP)
ill take "shit nobody said about fallout" for $500 alex

>>3782176
You're describing something closer to an immersive Sim
Its fine to have different definitions for what you consider to be an RPG, but that's not all what an RPG is meant to be in most peoples eyes

>>3782195
>paper thin options
Most games dont really have proper gameplay based choices anyway, except for some immersive sims which I dont think are being made anymore
You're better off replaying deus ex for the twentieth time if that's ALL you want
Different games cater to different requirements, yours isnt a high ask, but doesnt make other RPGs focused on dialogue worse just because
>lazily developed
Gameplay options available for most games is paper thin, which is fine if that's what you like

>>3782202
man, you're weird if you care what people think about you on the internet.
>>3782221
no, i'm not.
>>3782223
rpg combat is robust, dialogue trees are not.

>>3782217
Who the fuck is alex

>>3781609
Choice based games can be fun as long as the choices arent the entire gameplay, maybe i wanna dick around and fight rpg style while having a bajillion choices and outcomes at my disposal

>>3782092
Just admit you're an old jaded illiterate fag who cant have fun imagining and roleplaying anymore

>>3782258
>man, you're weird if you care what people think about you on the internet.
The good old "no you". Well done.

>>3782276
nah.
>>3782289
it's the only response to some stranger reading in intent that isn't there, bro. don't know what to tell you otherwise except "deal with it".
like, look at the catch 22 here: you care about seeming smart so you modify your sentences and the solution is to modify your sentences to make it seem like you aren't smart because then people won't mock you for being a pseud which means you care about what people think of you.

>>3782309
Your desperation is getting embarrassing. It's just an anonymous board. Nobody cares. Let it go man.

>>3782318
why would i care if nobody cares or not? it's an anonymous board on the internet, people are free to ignore me.
you don't like conversation? stop replying.

>>3781564 (OP)
Play Fallout New Vegas and you'll understand.
The reason why fans of classic Fallout prefer it over 3 and 4 is because it started to add back in things from 1 and 2 that was missing, expanding the RPG aspect which 3 and 4 both reduced.

>>3782324
>why would i care if nobody cares or not?
You clearly do care. Way too much. You're very bad at hiding it.

>>3781564 (OP)
Fallout 1 and 2 had a perfect mix of personal + world motivation. 3’s motivation was too personal while having too little political motivators while New Vegas had the opposite problem where the Courier is a blank slate plot device and the motivations are entirely political. 4 looked at New Vegas, saw how there factions, tried to do something similar and failed because Emil cannot write

>>3782346
okay.

>>3782176
>it's extremely lazy content with almost no real interesting mechanics to interact with.
The people who make speech characters disagree.

>>3782176
Fallout 1 and 2 have an issue where combat is trivialized to such an absurd extent by picking certain play styles over others. Why would you ever run a character who doesn’t make use of turbo plasma rifles and power armor with high agility? The mechanics of combat are irrelevant when it’s so easy to vaporize everything in a few turns.
>dialogue choices are skipping mechanics
Or rather, the combat allows you to skip dialogue and resolve quests inadequately. Do you just approach quests by nuking your reputation and murdering everything in sight?

>>3782176
People who make intensive dialogue focused characters have these traits called “patience” and “curiosity” and are usually more interested in approaching role playing games for the world and characters present in the world rather than blasting everything in sight that moves like some rampaging nigger.

>>3782371
>Courier is a blank slate plot device and the motivations are entirely political.
did you forget about the revenge subplot?

>>3782176
>it's extremely lazy content with almost no real interesting mechanics to interact with.
The things that NPCs have to tell you and the things that you can respond to them is what makes dialogue interesting. No need for any additional mechanics. If you need some tacked on dialogue minigame because your tiktok brain can't pay attention to what's actually being said in the conversation then RPGs are clearly not for you.

>>3782483
The “revenge” plot is forced, a motivation the game prescribes to the player regardless if that is even the case. Regardless it doesn’t change the fact that the courier has no attachments to the world before taking a dirt nap. Mojave Express supposedly has some sort of ties to the NCR but your character behaves as if the NCR is alien to him. It isn’t clear whether the Courier is from the Mojave itself or from the NCR or some other land entirely. The Courier has no backstory outside of botching a delivery and even then your boss barely recognizes you and has a single line of dialogue mentioning you.

>>3782516
It's not forced, you can choose to want revenge on Benny or not. Ultimately your goal is just to get the chip back.

>>3781804
>using companions
you didn't beat the game

Old fallout has the grim vibes, engaging gameplay as long as you aren't retarded, and a unique art direction that made it stand out. Not to mention it's an actual Roleplaying game, inspired from Tabletop RPG's, in particular GURPS. Modern fallout feels like it's wearing the skin of the classics, while having absolutely none of the meat. The gameplay is an addictive and shallow looter shooter loop, while the "roleplay" is nonexistent, because you are given your role in the world, as well as the character you must play. Compared to the depth of the classics, it's like comparing a pond and an ocean.

>>3782558
The game has to tell you that you somehow want revenge regardless if that’s actually the case. It isn’t a motivator determined by player but by forced writing. If you don’t kill him then it’s because he deceived you like the snake he is and just prolongs the forced “revenge” plot to the fort instead of ending it at the tops. The game automatically assumes your reason for tracking benny is out of revenge, there’s no room for other motivators given space.

>>3782568
>Fallout 1, play as a vault dweller
>Fallout 2, play as a tribal
Your role and character are established in every game in the series, the fuck are you talking about?

>>3781812
>set charisma to 1
>tag speech
>fail to persuade key npc’s and save scum for 3 hours until the hidden roll succeeds, then save scum for another 3 hours when talking to the npc over
Ah yes, because this is clearly the most intuitive way to approach dialogue and by no means makes your entire experience of the game an infinitely greater pain in the ass than it ever needs to be. Lmao.

>>3782516
>The “revenge” plot is forced, a motivation the game prescribes to the player regardless if that is even the case.
god. shut up. no.
It's the exact same shit as the water chip and saving arroyo. It's an excuse plot that makes the player jump into the greater world.
in this case, Benny and the platinum chip are what sets up the politics for the player to engage with. You get caught in the middle of a power struggle and everyone wants your help. The motivation is there and the narrative works fine. You can either want direct revenge, or just want answers or you can even ignore Benny entirely if you want and the game supports these options.

>>3782577
>It isn’t a motivator determined by player but by forced writing.
this is total horseshit if your complaint is that NV's personal plot is different from 1 and 2's. There is fuck all reason to care about Arroyo in 2 and the player spends all of ten minutes there. Vault 13 is largely similar, but does have the benefit of the fear of game over if you dawdle as an external motivator.

>>3782258
I know you.
You're the one who posted anime girls while saying nothing except gameplay matters in games
>Go play your list 10 games that you'll be restricted to for the rest of your life

And leave others to enjoy games thatre different from what they played yesterday

>>3782425
i'm sure.
>>3782437
>Why would you ever run a character who doesn’t make use of turbo plasma rifles and power armor with high agility?
because you want to roleplay. you do know combat is roleplay, right? the amount of varied characters you can express in combat is much higher. i'll admit all fallouts are shallow rpgs though, completely agree there.
>>3782441
rpgs are combat games at heart, picking static pre-written dialogue options isn't really roleplaying. i'd say people who like dialogues just don't like rpgs as much, instead they like cyoa games.
>>3782512
i'd actually prefer an advanced text parser so the player has to understand the dialogue. this was thrown out for canned responses and trees.
>>3782620
>You're the one who posted anime girls
incorrect.

>>3782641
Talking to you is like talking to a kike

>>3782580
>fail to persuade key npc’s and save scum for 3 hours until the hidden roll succeeds, then save scum for another 3 hours when talking to the npc over
This never happened on any of my playthroughs and most of my characters had a charisma of 2. You don't need to make up fictional problems to cling to the idea that charisma somehow matters in Fallout 1. It's ok to admit that the system in that game is janky and half-broken. It's still a great game.

>>3782641
>rpgs are combat games at heart
What an absolute clown.

>>3782661
>>3782691
behold, the eloquence of dialogue tree "roleplayers". without some dev writing the response for them, they don't have anything pertinent to say and just spout impotent jibes.

>>3782698
I don't know what kind of eloquence you expect to what you've said. If someone takes a shit in public and then rolls in it there's no need for eloquent responses. People just point and laugh.

>>3782698
You're writing the same things in different words since the first time I was unfortunate enough to become aware of you
There's nothing to be gained by talking to you. Everything other than gameplay reminds you of the holocaust and any comment that points to a different aspect of a game reminds you of the 6 million
I really wish you'd stick to playing your 10 games over and over again instead of coming on here ever again, but like the Jew, you survive, and make everyone's lives more miserable as a result

>>3782713
>criticizing dialogue trees on an imageboard is shitting in public
this scatological response is revelatory
>>3782724
what do the kids say to people like you now? meds?

>>3782750
>this scatological response is revelatory

>>3782765
this is funny, i feel like joeseph joestar.

>>3782577
The game doesn't assume anything. It gives you the choice of choosing revenge as a motivation, you don't have to take it. It's possible for a female courier to genuinely fall for Benny and have sex with him instead of turning on him in private. You can rescue him from Caesar's camp, which is something a revenge-minded courier wouldn't do.
>>3782615
From the player's perspective there's little reason to care about Vault 13 and Arroryo. From the character's perspective, they should care, it's where they grew up all their life. By contrast, the Courier has no attachment to the Mojave whatsoever. I'm not bothered either way, but I can see how some people prefer role-playing characters with more defined backgrounds/personalities.

>>3782750
>We already know gameplay is important.
>Your insistence on it being the only relevant thing in an RPG is what I'm against
As for meds, there's no point.
Nothing can help dealing with your continued presence on here, how could it? Even the gas chambers weren't good enough to get rid of you and your kind.
Almost as bad as the kikes, the only thing you're good for is to make circular arguments that all say the same thing

Hard to put into words how stupid OP's post is.
Games don't need some complicated moral choice to be good, and the fact that Fallout 4 has a (good story concept) doesn't mean it actually presented that story well. Most of the main story beats and dialogue of Fallout 4 are absolute dogshit. The voice acting is passable, better than past Bethesda games that were notorious for using the same fucking voice actor for every other character... but that's not what makes Fallout 4 "fun" or "good". I like Bethesda games because they're one of the few that try to do what they do - exploration and interaction with the environment in a large world that feels vaguely realistic.
But I'm a different generation of gamer.

>>3782806
>As for meds, there's no point.
my condolences. perhaps hooked on phonics?

>>3782641
>combat is roleplay
Save for the fact that the game will fail to acknowledge your combat choices in any meaningful narrative sense and will only reflect that you've killed certain enemies. Is this bait? There aren't any systems in place to create narratives that accurately reflect choice in combat style, only in whether you kill an npc or leave them or resolve their quest in a certain way. Also you conveniently dodged my question instead of answering it. You failed to give meaningful build alternatives to high agility energy weapons characters with power armor in early fallout. There are varied types of armor that all become obsolete as you progress through the game but they're all expendable. There's no reason to use combat armor or leather once you get gear that is objectively superior. It's an objectively more shallow system than the dialogue you've been screeching about. You select enemies, they die in a few hits, and that's that. You claim the combat has the most mechanical depth and player choice but the game does not reflect your sentiment since it's designed with the intention of dialogue prompts impacting outcomes rather than combat choices. You cannot spare enemies, you cannot shoot people's nuts to lower fertility of a town to kill the populace overtime. The mechanics do not reflect your delusions.

>>3782641
>>3783190
Also you dodged my question asking if you just go through the game murdering NPC's and ignoring quest design in its entirety which means all your arguments are likely just elaborate bait. A combat-only approach locks you out of most content and forces you to skip most of the game without having a solid understanding of what is going on or why you're doing anything. It's play that's contrary to how the game is designed.

>>3783191
Stop responding to that faggot
Hes a troll you cunt

>>3783190
>muh narrative
the narrative is the combat. like, describe what's happening in any individual battle, it's a story unto itself where your character's skills and attributes are expressed. you only know a man by fighting him.
>You failed to give meaningful build alternatives to high agility energy weapons characters with power armor in early fallout
anything, unarmed retard or small guns leather or whatever, the game isn't particularly hard. absolutely no need to powergame. the combinations of skills and weapons is decently varied.
>There's no reason to use combat armor or leather once you get gear that is objectively superior
roleplay.
>You claim the combat has the most mechanical depth and player choice but the game does not reflect your sentiment since it's designed with the intention of dialogue prompts impacting outcomes rather than combat choices. You cannot spare enemies, you cannot shoot people's nuts to lower fertility of a town to kill the populace overtime. The mechanics do not reflect your delusions.
every choice you make in combat and building your character is much more individualized than choosing prewritten dialogue options. you can't do anything in dialogue that isn't predetermined.
>asking if you just go through the game murdering NPC's and ignoring quest design
i don't. it's more of an abstraction thing, looking at the systems objectively. i've played fallout 1/2 with talkers and bruisers and shooters and even a thief character.
>>3783213
i legitimately think dialogue trees are degenerate roleplay, moron.

>>3781564 (OP)
>Are the old Fallouts really better?
Yes
/thread

Fallout 1 is unironically the only good one. In Fallout 2 you can already see every single facet of Nu-Obsidian which was always just Black Isle post-Troika.

>>3783262
>Fallout 1 is unironically the only good one.
Years ago, I would've argued with you, but today, it is clear that you are correct.

>>3783242
>i legitimately think dialogue trees are degenerate roleplay, moron.
But being a murderhobo is the highest form of roleplay, right? LOL. Nah, you're just a troll.

>>3783332
>His arguments rely on removing everything except gameplay from RPGs as being a necessary component of the genre
By not responding to the obvious troll, you deprive him of interaction
That's the only way to kill a cockroach like him

>>3783262
I also don't like the new NPC models in Fallout 2. They are ugly and inconsistent with the established models. The bouncers and boxers in New Reno are probably the most atrocious examples, but even models like Vic, Myron, Miss Kitty and Louis Salvatore stick out and clash with the character models brought over from the first game. It adds to the feeling that Fallout 2 was rushed and half-assed.

>>3783368
But it was rushed and most thing were ported over
I'm pretty sure it was either less than a year or two to get fo2 released, even while kicking out Caine

>>3783332
combat is the most intricate mechanical expression of roleplay within vidya rpg. this is simply factual, because a program cannot do freeform roleplay, but it can express the ruleset of the combat systems used by tabletop rpgs. hence, vidya rpgs are combat games and dialogue trees are closer to the adventure game/cyoa genre, with premade narratives with branches.

>>3783367
>his arguments=my strawnman
>i win by not responding directly
lmao, i love this coping strategy.

>>3783417
>describes his subjective preference as "simply factual"
Opinion disregarded.

>>3783462
>describes his subjective preference as "simply factual"
One of the biggest problems with this board. Too many low-functioning autists lacking theory of mind. If I were in charge I’d word filter objectively into subjectively

>>3781575
>fallout 1 had good gameplay
You missed

>>3781564 (OP)

>>3783462
bro, it's factual. the lion's share of the ruleset of any tabletop rpg being used as a vidya rpg is based around combat because rpgs originated as wargame offshoots. the cyoa elements are tacked on as a limited way to allow the roleplay that you could do in tabletop, but you are pigeonholed into developer responses and scenarios, sometimes even embodying a developer designed character, and can only complete quests along predetermined pathways. it's not like those things aren't fun, but thems the facts.
>>3783471
the opinion would be the desirability of those things, not their presence. i actually like cyoa books.

>>3783242
>you only know a man by fighting him
LMAO that is some anime edgelord shit. you need to leave the house once in a while mate.

>>3783550
dude, you probably play videogames
LMAO

fuck off "m8"

>>3783543
>rpgs originated from wargames
>thus rpgs can never be about anything else but combat
The deluded ramblings of a turbo autist fixated on violence.

>>3783565
you're very good at quoting non existent posts

>>3783565
you don't read well, i'm saying static non-combat scenarios are invariably less complex and rigid than their combat counterparts. facts.
it's possible to get around this and develop an complex set of iterations in responses and quest pathways and such, but the narrative will always be limited, unlike in actual tabletop.
to see an example of this, look how developers have trouble balancing combat to the point they give up, because it's complex, and comparatively less trouble with dialogue or quest design in a functional sense.
dialogue trees are a calcification, another path should be taken.
>fixated on violence
yeah, think of the children.

>>3783571
don't call him out, he lets me reiterate my points

>>3783571
>>3783575
Welp that's it. He's having a conversation with himself now.

>>3783583
oh no, he's doing the "everyone who replies to me is samefagging" bit now, that almost always means that the poster doing the bit practices that technique.

>>3781575
>fallout 1 had good gameplay and was very well paced
personal opinion that is generally disputed
>fall out 4 is slop
spelling error, personal opinion that is often highly disputed

>>3783756
Shut up, Todd.

>>3783417
>combat is the most intricate mechanical expression of roleplay within vidya rpg
Huh? Based on what exactly? Because you happen to play a lot of RPGs which are exclusively focused on the combat portion of their respective games, like Baldur's Gate and whatnot?
>because a program cannot do freeform roleplay
Oh, it's one of those arguments lol. I see what you're doing here, adding "freeform" in front of roleplay to define roleplaying in one specific definition of the term, never mind that roleplaying is in its most literal definition merely to "play out a character in a fantasy", of which plenty RPGs try to accommodate through both gameplay and narrative integration instead.
>but it can express the ruleset of the combat systems used by tabletop rpgs.
Who's to say that the combat itself isn't just as stunted and limited due to the nature of the engine its running on?
>hence, vidya rpgs are combat games
Define combat.
>and dialogue trees are closer to the adventure game/cyoa genre, with premade narratives with branches.
Even combat challenges are built on a (largely) deterministic sequences of events with right and wrong answers if you're going to be reductionist about it.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question: If a video game adapts a TTRPG where combat and social combat operates almost on the same exact rules (i.e. some series of attribute and skill checks with varying degrees of success and failures, perhaps with a "mini-game" element for added measure), why would that game be better off playing like your average D&D CRPG where you fight off hordes of monsters and foes alike, exactly?

>>3783761
nta but tabletop combat has very rigid rulesets. hp, damage, armor, movement are all derived and there are limits to actions per turn.
social skills in tabletop games are very improvised with the players at the whim of the DM when it comes to getting certain information, or what DC a intimidation check would be. this stuff doesn't translate as well to CRPGs when all of your dialogue options are predefined by the developers

>>3783768
I recommend looking up more TTRPGs sometimes, since the extreme segregation of combat and other RP elements is largely a D&D phenomenon. Burning Wheel, for example, doesn't make the hard distinction at all so everything is a "combat challenge" by sheer technicality.

>>3781564 (OP)
>In other words: "Should I doom this entire city to die of thirst when I have no actual reason to, or not?"
The reason is they have it and you don't, and you need it. Your people need it. That's a good enough reason.

>>3783758
Bethesda Fallout are fun action-liteRPG's in their own right that only get flack for presuming to use the Fallout IP, were it an original setting like they planned everyone would have been far more civil about them

>>3783783
Calm down, Todd.

>>3783761
i'm going to clear something up before is miscommunication continues. i'm talking about what is actually out there in vidya rpgs. i've yet to see anyone really innovate and i think dialogue trees are the wrong path. i'd be happy if this weren't the case.

>>3783776
Besides that the challenges that can be encountered in TTRPGs are more varied than just combat vs social.

In old school DnD, dungeon crawling wasn't just a series of combat encounters, like it is now. There was actually an emphasis on finding ways to avoid combat since fighting monsters was so risky. Players had many options. Listening and looking for clues to spot monsters before they spot the players, using deception to evade monsters, dropping gold or food to distract them, negotiating with the more intelligent creatures, laying traps.

Also disarming traps wasn't just a single roll with a success and fail state. Traps were more like puzzles that the players had to solve with creative thinking.

There were so many interesting options described in the old DnD rules which could be easily translated into video game rules. It's all right there for game designers to pick up and implement. But nobody is going to do that because most people are only interested in swinging swords and throwing fireballs.

>>3781616
No fuck you, 2 was shit compared to 2.

>>3783793
By "clear something up" do you mean "backpedal" because you only got pushback from everyone since you came to this thread with your idiotic "combat is the only true way to roleplay" take?

>>3783841
not at all. fallout fanboys would be expected to be barely literate and get angy at someone calling out dialogue trees as degenerate.
>combat is the only true way to roleplay
see, this was never said. the problem you have overall as a person is that you can't read. it's really amusing how confident you are with this glaring weakness.

>>3783877
>see, this was never said

>>3782002
>game's most interesting feature is combat
>people think it's good to skip that with a dialogue option
>some rpg fans are retarded

>>3782641
>you do know combat is roleplay, right? the amount of varied characters you can express in combat is much higher
>rpgs are combat games at heart, picking static pre-written dialogue options isn't really roleplaying. i'd say people who like dialogues just don't like rpgs as much, instead they like cyoa games.

>>3783242
>the narrative is the combat. like, describe what's happening in any individual battle, it's a story unto itself where your character's skills and attributes are expressed. you only know a man by fighting him.
>every choice you make in combat and building your character is much more individualized than choosing prewritten dialogue options. you can't do anything in dialogue that isn't predetermined.
>i legitimately think dialogue trees are degenerate roleplay, moron.

>>3783417
>combat is the most intricate mechanical expression of roleplay within vidya rpg

>fallout fanboys would be expected to be barely literate
This line is so funny to me. I'm ESL and the first time I played Fallout I could barely understand english. I was playing the game with a dictionary open on the side. First half of the game was a struggle, having to look up words constantly, but understanding a little bit more with each dialogue I went through. By the end of the game I didn't need a dictionary anymore. Fallout literally taught me english.

>>3784000
reading lesson! notice that
>combat is the most intricate mechanical expression of roleplay within vidya rp
>rpgs are combat games at heart
>you do know combat is roleplay
>the narrative is the combat
>game's most interesting feature is combat
do not equate to some blanket statement like
>combat is the only true way to roleplay
that's an interpretation you made because you don't know how to read and assigned an argument you've already been in with other people to me. basic internet retardation.
the point is that combat is much more involved and interesting in vidya rpgs because that's the part they can handle. there are far more moving parts for the player to interact with and build their character around. like, look at a game with weapons and armor, that's a whole system that is made irrelevant by a talker.
i'd be happy if someone made an interesting non-combat rpg and not a cyoa with stats or a game that just transposes combat into a social fight. i don't see it happening anytime soon though.

>>3784005
>Fallout literally taught me english
it shows, in that you think your anecdote is pertinent.

>>3784052
>the thing i said does not equate to the thing i said

>>3784074
you should take that perk, you really aren't good at this.

>Bethesda
I get that Fallout 3 is your fist experience with the franchise and you like it a lot. 1 & 2 are original and timeless, meanwhile anything Bethesda does is reskin of Elder Scrolls.

>>3781575
>fallout 1 had good gameplay

>>3784080
Why are all of your comebacks just "no, you!". You can do better than that.

>>3781575
>>3784096
>fallout 1 had good gameplay

I just finished Fallout 1 and 2 back to back, never played them before. These games fucking rule lol. Had a great time, OP btfo.

>>3784977
play some total conversion mods for 2. I recommend starting with 1.5 Resurrection

>>3784977
i am about to start a fallout 1 playthrough, did you use any mods or just go vanilla?

>>3785060
NTA but it comes with a high resolution patch on most platforms, so you don't need anything
there is also the fallout 1 in 2 mod which is the best way to play imo, but kind of a pain and not necessary

>>3783756
>spelling error, personal opinion that is often highly disputed
lmao Fallout 4 was absolute trash and Todd is overrated as fuck
cope

>>3785075
The post you're replying to is a joke, you dumbass.

>>3785060
GOG versions both, Fallout 1 vanilla, Fallout 2 with Restoration Patch, mostly because I wanted to see children in the game. Vanilla was perfectly fine. My only real gripes where the clunky inventory management between companions. Saw an interview with Tim Cain and he said companions were added rather late and that they are just scripted so their behaviour is really basic. Like this anon >>3785074 said, there's a mod called Fallout Et Tu which is Fallout 1 with the more refined mechanics of Fallout 2. But honestly it's fine and yes, comes with a hi-res patch right away.

>>3785060
>>3785185
Companion management is really the most janky part of Fallout 1 by far but not that bad if you're a little patient with it. You just have to keep in mind to use the steal skill on your companions if you want to manage their inventory. Counter-intuitive but they won't mind. Before I knew that this was an option I used to just barter with them which is a REAL pain in the ass for managing companion inventory.

>>3785194
>I used to just barter with them
My condolences. Luckily, I learned about "stealing" from companions early on. Like all my fav games FO has amazing atmosphere, worldbuilding and characters but undercooked mechanics. I'll take this over streamlined mechanics and a forgettable world any time of day. Either way the game is too short to really frustrate you with the jank. I preferred the shorter length, Fallout 1 is more focused, concise and consistent and it just tells a straight-forward good story. By comparison, Fallout 2 is already a sprawling mess.

>>3785229
This anon gets it.

>>3785185
>Fallout 2 with Restoration Patch
not really necessary on your first run imo

>>3785185
I thought i had read that the gog and steam version was the same? I already own the game on steam so i was planing to play there, But if its worth switching i will.

>>3785363
NTA but Steam is fine, there's not even any DRM. I've read that the GOG ones don't come with sfall installed (mod that fixes the game up to work on modern systems with a few qol features and bug fixes).

>>3781564 (OP)
Fallout 1 is basically a glorified point-and-click adventure game with like, two viable builds, not including mentally retarded mode.

>>3785328
I have just played it for a bit now without the patch and I agree. But I need to leave it for a year or so until I go for another run. No need to get burned out on a good game.
>>3785363
Oh I don't know I just put it there in case there is a difference but most likely they're identical like the other anon said. Should be safe to stick with steam if you already have it in your library.

>>3781564 (OP)
>bloody mess
>gifted
>high agility
>small guns as tagged skill
>shoot overseer at the end
>everything else is up to you
The only correct way to play the Fallout 1

a lot of the probems in FO1 can be fixed via FO1in2, in various extents. For example, the Charisma being useless in 1 FO1in2 makes it so that your followers are limited if you only have 1 CHA.. still not THAT usefull, but still

>>3781609
I wanna roleplay as evil so i like having them

>>3781564 (OP)
F1 is great fun, quick game and enjoyable for replay
F2 is good, complex gaming. Gives you so much to plan out for replays
F BOS and Tactics were enjoyable, tactics more than BOS but both equally enjoyable. Not much for replaying
F3 was a step outside the box, enjoyable and giving the ability to explore and create a story inside the set story. Expansive and giving the options of DLC and mods, replay was excellent.
F NV was good, much like F3 but sort of the same gameplay, just a rehashing of F3.
F4 is ass. personally could not finish the game and got more annoyed with SIM style camp building, Story was boring and generic, nothing new to the genre and with DLC or mods, replaying was available for a different F4 experience. Boring either way.

>>3787459
Devilish and dastardly pilled

>>3787410
>For example, the Charisma being useless
That soured my opinion on fallout 1. I went in really believing in those stats, thanks to the legendary reputation of that game as a RPG. Just gimped my first character for nothing lol

>>3788340
the reputation of FO1 comes from your ability to roleplay
>can speech your way in some quests
>can fight your way through the game
>some choices have consequences

it was a big thing back then and now (even DOS2 still struggles with giving you proper consequences for your actions)

FO1 kind of killed point-and-click adventures, too

>>3788340
>I went in really believing in those stats, thanks to the legendary reputation of that game as a RPG.
I tagged the Outdoorsman skill on my first playthrough because it made sense in the context of the world - surely you would need survival skills in the wasteland. And I imagined I would be able to do cool stuff like build shelters, track animals, set traps etc. or be able to use my survival knowledge in conversations and quests. Very early in the game you even find a scout handbook to improve your Outdoorsman skill which gives the impression that this skill is significant. I felt like my character was ruined when a few hours into the game I realized that I never got to use that skill.

After a few playthroughs you recognize that they focused on a handful of key areas (combat, stealth, dialogue) and the rest is just empty numbers. Skills like Repair and Science get used like 5 times throughout the whole game and only at specific predetermined points. Fallout 1's strength is its atmosphere and world but the system is shallow and underwhelming.

>>3788349
>FO1 kind of killed point-and-click adventures, too
Bullshit

>>3788349
>it was a big thing back then
Yeah, it was my mistake for taking online opinions (and flavor text) at face value. It was a good lesson to learn.

>>3787410
Charisma can be pretty good for the right character.
If you start with high CHA + tagged Speech you can easily get Ian the first time you meet him (before you have the 100 caps), meaning that clearing out the radscorpion caves becomes trivial.

>>3788340
>Just gimped my first character for nothing lol
This is the wrong attitude for Fallout. The game is designed in a way so that you think of a character concept that seems fun to you and then see if you can complete it with that character, rather than make one that has the easiest time with everything. The three pre-made characters aren't optimized by any means, but they completed the game with them.

>>3788897
>unutilized stat
>ehrm actually for Fallout..
Our darling old game gets a pass

This place would be more chill if we were as lenient and understanding towards all games

>>3781564 (OP)
>Should I assist this technologically advanced faction that wants to secure the future of humanity through technological innovation but at the cost of the abduction and terrorizing of innocent people?
You're talking about the Brotherhood of Steel, right?

>>3789160
Man, theyre overused as shit, i would like to not see the brotherhood of steel ever again, at the very least you can always find the way to kill them off so you dont have to see them ever again, but still.

>>3789235
yeah but why create new intresting factions if you can milk out the same faction for eternity and the fanbase will eat up all the slop thrown at them

>>3789235
>Man, theyre overused as shit,
Aren't they always optional, except for 3?

>>3781564 (OP)
literally no one played the old Fallouts compared to Todds. Todd's the only reason anyone even knows what Fallout is.

>>3789872
And I'd rather they didn't.

>>3789872
Shut up, Todd.

The reason the first two fallout games are the best ones has to do entirely with aesthetic, not that other stuff.
They were also released in an era and on a medium with low resolution and specificity, meaning that the imagination played a larger role. This enhances the experience in the same way that reading a book is better than watching a movie (if you're not a retarded person.) When you rolled into Junktown you recreated the scene in your mind using the milieu or contextual aesthetic to fill in the blanks and to accompany the low resolution display in front of you. With highly detailed 3d games you don't have that option, so if what you're seeing isn't consistently compelling, detailed, and basically perfect that will be a vector for disapproval. This is analogous to your favorite book character being cast as someone whose face you can't stand, or the setting not being quite right, or someone being race swapped. Even if the whole product is average or better, you now have the capacity to hate it for not honoring a relevant detail.

>>3789872
If nobody played the old Fallouts the IP would have been irrelevant and the new versions would never have been made. They were cult classics and sequels were demanded for years and it's because of old fans who loved the originals that you even have the games you like now, so shut the fuck up retard.

>>3789999
What's the point in making sequels to a cult game series if the sequels are completely different games in style? What defines a game series is not just its setting and lore but also its presentation. The trimetric projection, gritty art style and dark ambient soundtrack were a big part of what defined the Interplay/Black Isle Fallout games. The Bethesda Fallout games were clearly not made for the original fans.

I would have preferred if Fallout became irrelevant after 2. All Fallout 3 and 4 did was attract retards who don't understand the original games and shit on them for being "dated" because they are not first person shooters.

>>3790122
>The Bethesda Fallout games were clearly not made for the original fans.
I think they were and weren't simultaneously, and that Bethesda is simply not a good enough studio to pull off what was required to bring the complete aesthetic and narrative style of Fallout to a wider audience.
I basically agree with your broader point, even though I was one of the people naively thinking it would be good for sequels, and even tentatively believing it might be good for Bethesda to do them. It's not as if it's an impossible task, it just wasn't in the right hands, with a studio that is as wide as it is shallow rather than the opposite.

>>3789995
One of my favourite memories from Fallout 1 is when I examined a mirror in some abandoned ruins. The description said "You look at yourself for some time". This was the first time in weeks that my character saw a mirror and I imagined him becoming somber at the sight of his reflection, looking at the dirt and scars on his face and taking a few minutes to contemplate all the shit he's been through and how his appearance changed since he left the vault. That simple unremarkable line spawned a whole visual and emotional scene in my mind because I was so immersed in the world and atmosphere of the game.

>>3790194
>That simple unremarkable line spawned
NPC received a prompt

>>3790195
You have it backwards, NPCs need things painfully, explicitly drawn out for them. They're the reason movies foreshadow something 5 times before you see the "twist." They're the reason you need hyper detailed character models in order for anything to be considered good. Using your imagination and taking subtle cues from environment and aesthetic is not an NPC trait.

>>3790401
>Using your imagination and taking subtle cues from environment
You wouldn't need the game to tell you
>"You look at yourself for some time"

>>3790401
There are people for which subtlety and using imagination are such alien concepts that upon encountering them in someone else they reflexively blurt out "NPC!" while completely missing the irony.

>>3790415
>using a text line of 7 words as a basis to imagine an entire scene with visual details and a narrative counts as not using imagination
You didn't think this through.

>>3790437
You couldn't imagine it without a prompt? Seeing a mirror wasn't enough to spark your imagination?

>>3790443
>nitpicking an innocuous statement and trying to start an argument over it
People like you are tedious.

>>3790449
Now you know you don't need text prompts to imagine cool stuff. You'll enjoy VIDEO games more.

>>3790469
Imagine getting offended over how someone else chooses to enjoy games.

>>3790497
You choose to depend on text prompts to activate your imagination?

>>3790415
Yeah, you wouldn't even need a game at all, right?
You're an actual retard.

>>3790512
>You choose to depend on text prompts to activate your imagination?
Yes. And it's funny that this makes you shit yourself in anger.

>>3790521
>Yeah, you wouldn't even need a game at all, right?
I wouldn't go that far. I certainly couldn't have imagined Fallout in its entirety. But if it has a room with my character and a mirror, I can imagine them looking into it without the game telling me to.

>>3790527
>I certainly couldn't have imagined Fallout in it's entirety
based honest retard. i'm currently imagining the entire game right now. i don't judge you for being lower skill though.

>>3789999
The IP *was* irrelevant though. Bethesda picked it up for pennies and used it for their new oblivion with guns game on a whim. There's basically nothing that carries over from the original Fallouts to Fallout 3 aside from a few names and the cool looking power armour. 95+% of the millions of people (mainly children and teenagers) who bought and loved Fallout 3 had ever heard of Fallout let alone played it. And most of the RPG codex/no mutants allowed/whatever random RPG forum that's somehow still alive types who worship Fallout had already written off Fallout 3 because it was made by the same company that made Oblivion (which was critically panned by forum users across the internet). Fallout was a cult classic sure but the whole point of *cult* is that the fanbase is small and nobody except a small group of (probably autistic) superfans cares about it. Something like Age of Decadence is a cult classic on the level that Fallout was in 2007 in these communities but if you think an FPS using it's post apocalyptic romepunk setting would get any traction from being a sequel in the same IP you're delusional.

>>3790550
>The IP *was* irrelevant though.
Fallout 3 received a ton of attention because it was reviving the IP. And that informed new audiences.

>>3790550
>romepunk
Please don't.

>>3790550
>The IP *was* irrelevant though. Bethesda picked it up for pennies and used it for their new oblivion with guns game on a whim.
Nope, Troika with Activision's backing asked to license the IP to make a Fallout sequel. Because of that, the guy who took over Interplay realized he had a hot property on his hand and auctioned it off. Troika, Obsidian, and Bethesda all bid on it, Bethesda won. A few years later they bought the entire IP outright because Interplay was trying to do a Fallout MMO and ran out of money. It never got finished of course.

>>3789872
this. nobody care about the old fallouts until todd make it popular. the gameplay sucked ass.

>muh choices

>>3790808
agree. old fallout suck. new fallout good. todd make popular. me like todd.

>>3781564 (OP)
You wouldn't get it.

>>3790825
this but unironically. toddhating is just typical 4chan contrarianism or reddit/xitter tier "he is le evil big business capitalist". todd saved the rpg genre.

>>3790852
Whatever you say, man. I was just taking the piss out of you for your caveman speak.

>>3790852
Success breeds jealousy and seethe, that's all there is to it.

>>3790869
You know someone has a correct and well thought out position when his main argument is "they're just jealous!".

>>3782483
The anime fanfic tier bullshit added in Lonesome Road? I personally headcanoning myself as far from it as i can.

>>3790550
>There's basically nothing that carries over from the original Fallouts to Fallout 3 aside from a few names and the cool looking power armour.
Besides the story and pacing notes of Fallout 3 are a straight copy of Fallout.
>vault dweller forced to leave vault with specific-but-vague-at-same-time-quest
>blunder about the wasteland making friends and enemies
>whispers and threats of an ominous threat
>resolve initial objective, ominous threat makes itself known to you
>have to go around gather friends you made to get assistance and info to deal with this threat
>succeed
>get shafted for your efforts
>>3790884
I presume Ulysses is more projectively autobiographical myself. Lonesome Road is the worst DLC for FONV by far.

>>3790993
And yet Fallout 3 does all that in a far worse way by being a glorified theme park. The original rewards creative play and has a punishing time limit for taking too long. Fallout 1 also does a better job of showing the scars of war. In Fallout 3 it looks like the bombs dropped yesterday, despite happening a hundred years after 1 and being in a swamp of all places.

>>3790998
>Fallout 3 does all that in a far worse way
Showing life inside vaults before being cast off into the wasteland was a great decision.

Fallout 1 is a much smaller game than 3D stuff, it's low budget and it shows, but direction of it and design is fantastic, as well as the execution. It's just not fleshed out and doesn't have the depth, because it's an unfinished basement project.

>>3791003
Starting character creation with a first person view of being pulled out of a vagina (including a bloody camera lens) was also a great decision.

>>3790993
sorry anon but veronica is an A tier cutefu who was canonically cured of gay by repeated courier dicking while cass is energy weapon fodder in every playthrough

>>3790858
[Intelligence] Grug rape you now (rape him).

>>3781564 (OP)
When people debate writing quality they often put their argument in terms of logic and story complexity when what they really mean is tone and aesthetics. Amateur writers--like the ones who write video games--tend to leak their own affects into their characterizations which is what audiences are picking up on, e.g. "millennial writing" (think DA:Veilguard) versus "edgelord writing" (think Cyberpunk).

Moreover, I'm willing to bet a significant amount of the writing complaints have more to do with the graphics than anything. Isometric pixel sprites and low resolution claymation on a CRT display has an inherently gritty quality to it that fits with the post-apocalyptic themes. Fallout 4 was built on a Creation Engine build with a texture rendering pipeline that was only half-finished and it gives a lot of materials a sort of toy-like, plasticky sheen to them that doesn't jive with the setting.

>>3790565
>>3790625
>>3790808
Bethesda, Obsidian, and Troika all wanted the IP because, believe it or not, business suits have some amount of taste and they could all see that the setting/iconography/title had serious legs if they could just port it into a more popular genre and get some real funding/marketing behind it.

>>3791117
>Troika
>business suits
Retard.

>>3791117
>Isometric pixel sprites and low resolution claymation on a CRT display has an inherently gritty quality to it that fits with the post-apocalyptic themes.
Not even mentioning Boyarsky's work? You're a disgusting pleb... "isometric pixel sprites"

>>3791137
Have you seen Fallout 4's concept art? Bethesda didn't lack artistic vision.

>>3791140
.. just stop. You clueless autist.

>>3791117
In an old interview Boyarsky said that Activision was completely fine with Troika making a turn-based pseudo-isometric RPG as long as it was using the Fallout license.

>>3791229
We were robbed.

>>3791229
>tfw no vault of elemental evil

>>3781575
Fallout 4 us the superior gameplay. I hate waiting 10 minutes for 50 cows to move

>>3787472
I downloaded Fallout Tactics again, because got bored, but it's so clumsy even compared to Jagged Alliance 2. The controls suck. Had to restart the first map twice, because didn't notice Farsight was waddling into her death because of a misclick. There is no "attack move" command, there is no giving orders on pause. One new thing though, that I did not noticed in the past (despite completing the game a dozen times), is that you can set a minimum hit chance for opening fire your squad members, that is great for not wasting ammo.

>>3787410
>>3788340
Charisma determines the amount of followers you can have, one for every 2 point on it, also opens up a few side quests, and dialogue options. In FO1 you can talk the final boss into suicide, and in FO2 you can convince soldiers to help you fight the final boss. So it's not a useless stat, it's just less fun gameplay.

>>3793054
>Charisma determines the amount of followers you can have
Not in Fallout 1.

>>3793010
>I hate waiting 10 minutes for 50 cows to move
Wrong game.

>>3793054
In the first one, charisma purely determines an NPC's initial reaction to you, whether it's positive, neutral, or negative. Speech is what determines those other things you mentioned. It's there for role-playing but there's no big trade-off for having it in low amounts if you don't care that everyone starts off talking surly to you.

>>3793054
>>3793057
>>3793259
another reason why i like fo1in2. not only do you get the additional engine qols, like pushing npcs out of the way, but you also get an additional use for charisma, which is to limit your followers

For your first (and only) playthrough of Fallout 1 and 2 it's best to get a cheat engine and set all your stats to 10.

>>3793292
It doesn't matter, Fallout is a much easier game than 2, you don't really need followers at all. They were a last-minute hack.

>>3793067
Mfw there is no cow level

>>3793782
But having the whole gang with you looks so cool.

>>3781775
That's something I genuinely liked about 1 was the fact you could make the argument that stealing the chip and fucking over the ghouls was the "easy way out". I read the repair books in the sewers and grabbed the multitool, since time goes by every time you try to repair the pump my character spent a day or so fixing the pump. It kind of gave me in a roleplay sense that its easier to just sneak in and steal the chip, but it takes effort and skill to do the right thing, which at the end of FO1 if you get the best ending possible your character kind of deserves their historic almost christlike notoriety they get in FO2. It's alot harder to get thru the whole story being as good as possible, fully exploring places like the Glow when you could just go on the first floor and fuck off.

>>3781564 (OP)
Who cares man, just play them

>>3793795
>But having the whole gang with you looks so cool.
*soft locks your save by trapping you on the plank bridge at the gun runners* Heh, nothing personal, vault dweller.

>>3781564 (OP)

>>3794824
Wow, it's almost like humanity is the problem all along!

>>3794824
Hmm we need to get rid of capitalism

>>3794881
t. Richard Grey

>>3795038
Well duh, every single entry after the first proved him right,

>>3795066
They really didn't.
Mutant only societies weren't devoid of violence.

Fallout 1 is the only great game in the series.
New Vegas is good, F2 is alright. Tactics is ok.
The rest is junk.

>>3781564 (OP)
ACTUAL GOOD GAMES TIER
>Fallout 3, Fallout 4
JANKY BUT SET THE FOUNDATION TIER
>Fallout 1
REUSED ASSET SLOP TIER
>Fallout 2, Fallout 3: New Vegas
NEVER PLAYED TIER
>Fallout 76, Fallout: Tactics, Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel, Fallout: Shelter

>>3795171
1>T>3>S>NV>4>76>2>BoS
>>3795175
Retard take on multiple levels.

>>3793050
Does anyone know how to get all the recruits after the Brahim Wood mission, if your player character have low charisma (2, only 2 due to gifted). Tried to use brown noser perk on a recruit that I plan to discard, and it increased his rank, but didn't gave any new recruits. Tried to level up a few times, but not enough yet. I know that taking mentats can raise ones rank temporarily, but one is not enough, and only found one from a special encounter. Also don't know the minimum charisma required for all recruits (that don't have mission requirement) to be avaible that early, despite plenty of people asking for that, for over two decades, there is no clear answer anywhere.

Also strange thing happened, the special encounters are supposed to be in fixed locations, but somehow they got mixed up in my most recent playthrough, and got access to an encounter that was supposed to be on the other side of the map (Merchant), sadly instead of the encounter I needed for a mentat (Hermit). Other encounter locations are also mixed up, only three were in the correct position so far (Gas Station, Farmer, Brahim Poker).

Playing GoG version of them game.

>>3783262
i love and enjoy every fallout game to an extent (except brotherhood of steel that shit was GARBAGE) but i agree completely

>>3795527
>he played fo:t without charismamaxxing
NGMI

>>3795527
>>3798431
I can't even get all the supposed starting recruits after Freeport, even with using 3 Mentats. There is a 4th at Rock Falls, but you'd get the recruits anyways.

This run I'm doing a max endurance (max hp) run, starting with 9, and maxing it out with the Elixir of Life. Also you can give yourself middle of the game gear, such as two FN-FALs, one environmental armor, one metal armor from various encounters, and time doesn't matter in this game. I also kind of want to do a rerun because only ammo is limited in the game, and I'd rather use up the 9mm ammo early on.

>ST6 (maxed later with Advanced Power Armor)
>PE8
>EN9 (maxed after mission with Elixir of Life)
>CH2
>IN6
>AG10
>LK6

This run I planned to do a harem run, with my character being the only male in squad, and get 5 fuckable looking female starting recruits, but the recruit pool is limited due to low charisma...

Of course whatever I do, the Barnaky ending is what I pick, because don't want my character to end up being a brain in a jar, and Barnaky clears up the wasteland.

>>3781564 (OP)
New Vegas > 1 > 2 > 3