Is there any game with the same feeling of being an adventurer?

>>3782389 (OP)
>>3778929

>>3782389 (OP)
I always hoped they were going to make another expansion. It seemed like they were going to do the southern deserts with the trolls.

>>3782389 (OP)
Utter dogshit RNG based game.
>t. has beat it on insane roguelike

>>3782407
Wasn't there meant to be a dinosaur one in the works?
>>3782389 (OP)
Any roguelike with an openworld will have the same feel. Try ADoM or one of the Angband forks/variants.

>>3782389 (OP)
Shadow of the Wyrm.
Although it has basically no guidance of where to go or what to do beyond the starting island so good luck lmao.

>>3782809
I've tried that game several times and always die on the starting island. I don't know what the hell I'm doing wrong but apparently it might be everything.

>>3782410
The game actually becomes far more of an RNG-fest on higher difficulties, because the biggest threat is the game rolling a completely bullshit combination of classes/abilities on a boss/randboss/rare and that becomes more and more likely the higher the difficulty. I'd still say the game is consistently beatable on Normal and Nightmare for a skilled enough player, and without gimmicky shit like drowning.
>t. also beat it on insane roguelike

>>3782389 (OP)
"Caves of Qud" and "Cataclysm DDA" if you don't mind the devs being morons.

>>3782823
Guess it might be, I never had THAT much trouble. What classes were you trying?

>>3782410
>>3782832
I have NOT beaten it on insane roguelike, but I can certainly say that on less, well, insane difficulties it's not particularly RNG reliant, certainly not compared to any similar one. You might get extremely unlucky once or twice with an enemy but I can only think of maybe... five times in all my many many playthroughs where it ended as a result of pure chance rather than me making a retarded mistake.
But when I TRIED bullshit difficulty, I bounced off that so fucking hard I never tried again.

>>3782908
The RNG in ToME is more significant at the start. Once you get some levels and gear, you have options and you can handle most problems.
It returns again in the late-game, where you can get one-shot by anything if you don't have either reliable defenses or massive damage.

>>3782389 (OP)
I was immediately turned off when I saw it has an unlock system.
then, you know, I just got the unlock mod and played that way, but still, my natural disdain remained directed at the dev

>>3782920
Yeah. I understand if adventurer or annihilator were done that way, but why block off fun options like Doomed or Oozemancer? THe initial options are atrocious too - alchemist and archer are fine starters, but I wouldn't blame those who started bulwark or thief and dropped the game.

>>3782923
Even more so since the prerequisites for some of them are so wild. Like who the fuck is gonna unlock Stone Warden by accident?

>>3782923
What's wrong with rogue? I think it's a pretty fun class

>>3782937
Stealth doesn't really hold up when you get further in and you're fighting hordes of 40 orcs at once.

>>3782920
Unlocks are annoying, yes. Especially Solipsist. I hated those minigames so much.

>>3782937
You have two ways for rogue: stay still and throw knifes or go melee and hope to not die. Rogue is just a gatekeeper for a superior Marauder class. Or you know, making a flasher build for Shadowblade also works.

>>3782937
It's a class designed for chip damage in a game where burst rules - there are a ton of enemies that need only a few turns to reshield themselves, can outregen in ghoul's miasma or just plan self-heal. Even if you reach good skills, your defensive options will still be shit and you'll be forced to rely on procing several runes\infusions to just not die instantly. Besides, debuffs from skills barely work when facing stuff that matters (or even just red specials).

>>3782807
He works on two DLCs at the same time:
>Standalone Naga-Troll campaign like Embers
>Expansion for the main campaign like Ashes but centered around deserts, undead and dinosaurs.

>>3782947
>Standalone Naga-Troll campaign like Embers
Huh, that sounds neat, the Naloren are based. I hated Embers.

>>3782925
I guess it was designed as a surprise unlock when you play as a Wanderer/Adventurer or magic based Wyrmic.
If only those tooltips on locked races classes meant anything important or helpful.

>>3782809
>>3782905
Different anon here, but just picked it up and am enjoying it so far. Seems similar to ADOM which is one of my favourites. Started off with a Mountain Elf Warrior, got incinerated by the first 'boss' in the dungeon, started over as a Wood Elf Warrior and successfully stabbed the guy. I think I've picked up a few bits about how to play, but
-is there a way of identifying (or at least identifying beatitude) without wield-identifying everything?
-it seems like using alters costs an insane amount of piety? I'm worshipping Aurelion for the +2 Strength and he supposedly likes burying the dead, so I'm making sure to do that for every humanoid. I was getting messages about feeling pious but I dropped a couple items on the altar in the village to check and now no matter how many bodies I bury I'm always feeling "wretched". Or is that because it wasn't an altar of my god specifically? I think it was an altar of Celeste.

Also holy fuck does this game need a 'select all' items shortcut.

>>3782950
I like Embers for Tinkers and actually good shop. But those midgame dungeons are not for people who want to have fun.

I'll never forgive the TOME dev for nerfing Shalore so that Timeless no longer extends Unstoppable. Fuck that guy.

>>3782953
I think altars can identify if they're the same alignment as your god, and there's the Lore skill, but if I recall right that's a one-time chance on pickup to identify the item. But of course using the altar burns piety and, as you noticed, it's kind of a tricky balancing act.
I would just carry on and let it be in that regard, all the gods are a pain in the ass to please except three, and that's only if you play a caster (Celeste, Trickster and Shiver give piety for learning spells).
If you really need more, it'll take the Religion skill and sacrificing like a motherfucker. But you know, spaced out, I recall a cooldown on that.

>>3782947
Right, there is also a lorebook in works.
Not gonna lie, I genuinely do not care about TOME's lore and skip 95% of notes.
Ok, demons being literally kreegans from M&M was cool and Zigur being a edgy redneck magic hating PMC, while every third bandit or a snake on a continent can throw fireballs or teleport, is funny, but I genuinely do not care about the setting and deepest lore of this Angband fork turned into DMCAed fantasy book series fangame turned into LOTR fangame turned into whatever TOME4 is.

>>3782961
On the other hand, can't blame a guy for appealing to the ever-growing horde of MUH LORE tards, it's basically free money/publicity.

>>3782960
Damn, that's annoying. It does seem like piety is far harder to gain so far, at least as an upside it doesn't seem like naturally cursed items are anywhere near as common as in Nethack or ADOM. I got some pretty good stuff from this dungeon (a magic shield, bunch of magic rings, amulet of satiety and some decent armour) so I'll keep going and see how far I get.
I do appreciate the random quests you get in the starter town, makes things a bit more interesting starting off.

>>3782961
The lore is enough to read the first time. It doesn't really matter for gameplay.
The Zigur notes on how to identify wizards are funny.

>>3782905
Been a long while and I don't have the game on my current machine, but IIRC I tried various races with pugilist, oracle and some third class that escapes my memory

>>3782809
>Shadow of the Wyrm
I'm a graphics whore, I need my roguelikes looking pretty.

>>3782960
Think I worked out where I was going wrong with the altars. Coaligned altars do work and the reason they're so expensive in piety is because they seem to directly bless the item (unless it's already blessed) for piety cost, a bit annoying for identification but useful since I haven't worked out another way of blessing things.
It also turns out that hauling lighter (40lb or less) corpses to an altar is the best way of gaining piety I have, and it eventually allowed me to get enough to go back and rob some sarcophagi, kek

>>3783047
You must hate TOME4.

>>3782809
I appreciate it for having the Sage class for getting ALL the magic. Right up my alley. I desperately wish more games did that. Some Angband variants had an equivalent, but it's rarely worthwhile or in any way rewarding to go that generalist with magic.

>>3782809
>kill the sorcerer in the first dungeon
>rob some coffins, get some really good armor
>go to the castle north of town
>somehow manage to kill my way through a vault(?) of dragonlings, find an artifact sword
>find a boat in town
>sail to an island where a witch gives me some tea, which somehow teaches me how to use magic
>sail to another island where some dude teaches me how to fish
Just wanted to say thanks for the recommendation, I still have no idea what I'm doing but this is great so far, most fun I've had with a roguelike in years. It's like ADOM+

>>3782389 (OP)
>struggle to win a game even on adventurer
>pick Necromancer and win at my first try
why is it so busted ?

>>3786174
Because the developer realizes balance in a singleplayer game is for nerds
Besides, having garbage classes too gives the peak autists something to do trying to win with them on the most bullshit difficulty possible, they love that shit

>>3786174
Necromancer is probably the most powerful straight caster class. Don't even bother with summons.

>>3782920
The fuck? Unlocks are crucial to good Roguelikes, without unlocks there is no reward to getting further before dying and no point to 90% of the gametime. Are you some kind of complete fucking retard?

>>3786534
>Unlocks are crucial to good Roguelikes
Tell me how ADOM and DCSS not doing this makes them worse games.

>>3786534
>Unlocks are crucial to good Roguelikes
Nice bait, bro, but capitalizing roguelikes gave it away.

>>3786700
If you're playing a game called "Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup" you're a retard and any old slop will entertain you.
>>3786710
Nice "nice bait, bro" bait bro, but the obvious truth of my statement makes your bait hopeless

>>3786765
>you're a retard and any old slop will entertain you.
Projection is a helluva drug.

>>3786783
>Unironically plays a game called Dungeon Crawl Stone Slop

>>3786534
>>3786765
Not him, but roguelikes are possibly my favorite genre and I think any kind of unlock progression system is terrible for them. Permadeath and each run being completely it's own game os one of the fundamental cores of the genre. Even very minor progression systems mess with that balance. It's one of the main reasons why even though there's a ton of charm in the Mystery Dungeon games, they always end up disappointing me. I won't say I think you should not enjoy progression systems in your games, but to me a roguelike without true permadeath isn't a roguelike.

>>3786991
Interesting but I disagree completely, I would never play a roguelike without progression for any serious amount of time, unless it is inherently easy and short, in which case it's a bad roguelike anyway.

Imagine getting a good run, spending hours and hours building a character, and then just dying to some RNG and accomplishing literally nothing and unlocking literally nothing. What was the point of the run then? So whatever if you're fine wasting your time that's okay, but being UPSET at a roguelike having such a crucial feature like that guy is just absurd

>>3787013
>Imagine getting a good run, spending hours and hours building a character, and then just dying to some RNG and accomplishing literally nothing and unlocking literally nothing. What was the point of the run then?

I would say it's the fun you had along the way and what you gained was personal experience. To me what makes roguelikes a compelling genre is that sense of tension, that when you're in a tough situation everything you have is on the line.

Progression systems also inherently mess with the balance of the game. A well made roguelike is hard but beatable on your first try and on your hundredth time. If you make it so that after 100 runs you have unlocked skills or items or whatever that carries over it means the game has to be balanced to accommodate that. The Mystery Dungeon games for example are all balanced around the expectation that you are building up items and storing them in warehouses. The result is that the player has to self manage the difficulty to get a decent experience. Blind runs with no stored items are only winnable with very good luck and the right weather depending on the game. Where as with stored items the game can be a breeze no matter what.

To me that alone pretty much ruins the whole experience. And it's why permadeath is considered one of the pillars that defines the genre. Imagine going to play a game of chess where because one player had played a shit ton of chess they have perks to let them take extra moves, or let the queen jump or something, it would ruin the balance of the game. I see roguelikes as very similar in that regard. Unlocks ruin the whole experience.

>>3787013
>I would never play a roguelike without progression for any serious amount of time,
>and then just dying to some RNG and accomplishing literally nothing and unlocking literally nothing
>What was the point of the run then?

Wow. Always though that the whole "Participation Trophy Generation" thing was overexaggerated. You have successfully convinced me otherwise.

>>3787044
I can't think of a single roguelike where what you're saying is the case. My first completion of Tales of Maj'Eyal was with a Rogue, which you unlock at the start, and without the Poison unlock. You can very easily beat the game without unlocks it's not even a question. Each individual class and sub-class are their own package, if they were weak that''d just be bad game design in general.

You unlock new ways to play, not better ways.

>>3787047
Lmao and meanwhile this guy is complaining about the exact opposite and pretending unlocks don't matter at all. You're unlocking completely new classes dumbass not achievements or some shit.

The fact your two complaints completely contradict each other shows you're both talking nonsense.

>>3787086
>not better ways.
Uh huh.

>>3787086
A game that's easy to beat from the start yet still gives you unlocks sounds even worse to me. I'm not saying you should like that but I've never played a roguelike with progression between runs that held my attention for long. I far far prefer everything to be available from the start rather than having to unlock new ways to play. Meanwhile games like Powder keep me coming back year after year.

>>3787113
It's not easy from the start at all, exactly the opposite, it's very hard and takes like 100 hours to beat just once. I beat it with a default class because the default classes are just as good as any other class, and your imagined balance issues don't exist at all

>>3787124
I'm not saying you have to agree with me, just I overwhelmingly prefer not having to unlock new classes or styles of play until I've sunk a hundred hours in. I appreciate that you perfer it but to me that's bad game design. I don't like game over game progression systems in any genre, but especially roguelikes. I doubt we will ever agree though.

>>3787137
Yeah but I explained why it's a good thing and you've failed to explain why you don't like it except making up that it causes balance issues without providing any examples. So maybe it's time to change your mind

>>3787146
I'm not trying to change your mind, just explaining my perspective, maybe that's why. I don't care if you like games with progression more than traditional roguelikes. The Mystery Dungeon games, Shiren especially have a lot good about them but are ultimately disappointing because of the game's progression system. And yes you've explained why you like them, but none of what you described sounds good to me. There's really no point continuing this discussion.

>>3787162
I wouldn't even consider those weird weeb games roguelikes, there have completely different things going on that can cause early builds to be weaker and it has nothing to do with whether they have progression or not

>>3787168
Well I don't consider anything without true permadeath a roguelike in the first place, so take your distaste for those weeb games and understand that's also how I see what you're trying to shill. Or don't understand that. I honestly don't care what you like to play, only what I like to play.

If a roguelike has metaprogression, it isn't a roguelike. Each run needs to be self-contained.

>>3787173
Oh alright so you're just retarded then

>>3787197
I'm a retard for knowing what I like and why? Okay. Yeah we're so done here.

>>3782389 (OP)
This game is literally just Diablo slop.

>>3787086
>You unlock new ways to play, not better ways.

If the new ways to play aren't better, just different then why doesn't the game ket you choose them all from the start? What do you get out of having to unlock things that makes it more fun?

>>3787576
Wrong.
Dragon Age slop.

Tome's main problem is that it pretends to be a normal rpg. It overwhelms you with stats, skills, items, open world and auto-explore and it makes you zone out and immediately die to a snake with a chainsaw.
I know that dev locked classes and races to not overwhelm new people with choices but some conditions are too stupid or esoteric. Solipsist is a cool class but those dream minigames are cancer. Marauder is annoying to unlock. Stone Warden forces you to cripple your character. Mindslayer requires Necromancer to cheese. Doomelf is just plain bullshit.

>>3786534
ok zoomie

>>3788713
The unlock file is just an unencrypted text file, lol. Anyone else who hates it that much would just write race_doomelf = true into it but some people enjoy the seethe I guess.

I recently tried to clear Madness and there's really only one skill that let's you tank the damage, Dark Reign from Demonologist. It went really well and I could even save that redhead at level 30, so I felt confident and decided to clear the Godfeaster as well. Then I load into the level and get instantly killed. All the mobs in there are level 90 and strip your buffs. I don't think I'm going to try again.

>>3788713
Yeah, auto-explore can have a problem if the enemy is too fast. It's rare because usually the game will cancel it when you spot an enemy, but if your vision range is too short and they have double your speed, they can one-shot you.
But that's why you get a shielding rune or some form of defence. When you're further into the game, you're either fast, tough, or you one-shot them instead.

>>3788713
Solipsist and Mindslayer really aren't much trouble to unlock, barring the RNG of even getting the solipsist dungeon to spawn. But yeah most of them are bullshit. Necromancer itself is a pain in the ass.

I don't really understand the point of playing this in Roguelike mode. Adventure with limited lives does enough to make them meaningful and only having 1 feels autistic given how quickly things can happen. Speaking for Insane, that is.

>>3789909
You can find stuff that gives you extra lives.
There's a potion, a ring, a parasite that bites your head off and burrows into your neck hole, a lich ritual, etc.

>>3789909
>the point of playing this in Roguelike mode
there really isn't one. it's not designed to be a roguelike anyway, with the quests and static maps and unlockables and lore.