To reiterate my method, I assume the unanswered questions and mysteries in FF8 are a consequence of abandoned plot threads. Ideas which were carried over and expanded on in later games.
I merely draw on these narrative elements to fill in the blanks.

Granted, these theories will sound more grand, fleshed out, and impossible to fit into the game's existing narrative. But then again, this is a game where nobody mentioned that monsters rain down from the moon until it was about to happen. Conveniently, the game's terms menu says the moon has an influence on people to make them forget.

This fantasy world contrivance leaves room for a lot of possibilities. But also makes a lot of things impossible, storytelling wise.

For example, we are hardly told anything about the Sorceress War. But if G.F.s were involved, perhaps nobody remembers the details to tell it.

We know Sorceress Adel was a tyrant with the Lunatic Pandora as a weapon of mass destruction. Which she then used in her invasion of Trabia to the north.

But these words don't make sense. Genocide is not a conquest. And Trabia, if it was ever occupied by Esthar, must have regained its independence.

This is similar to the destruction of Lorica in FF Type 0, due to the Ultima Bomb.

If everyone's memory is faulty, then history is an unreliable narrator. We are told Adel is an evil tyrant. But perhaps she is a savior who broke from tradition and defeated a Sin-like monster from FF10, akin to Guardian Forces. Or perhaps WEAPONS from FF7.

As a side-effect of it's defeat; global amnesia. As the fog clears, they wouldn't see Adel as a savior. They would see her as the source of destruction holding a smoking gun.

>one schizo bullshit FF8 thread dies
>another appears

god, you guys are up there with annoying FF fanbases on this side, alongside FF15 fans in terms of spouting bullshit and derailing threads

>>3787734 (OP)
Talk to me about the gardens what was their original purpose? We know the Centrans consider them mobile shelters.
We have Balamb, Galbadaia, Trabia, we also know that Fishermans Horizon was originally meant to be a destroyed garden. There's also the deep sea research centre which his built on top of a massive drawpoint. When we get to the bottom of the facility we can draw (the garden of) Eden. It's no coincidence that Eden resembles a Garden in design so we have to conclude that Eden was drawn from the remains of a lost garden, hence the resemblance.

So now we have 5 Gardens, B, G, T, F and E. So the evidence suggests that they were designed to flee the Centran continent before the Luna Cry destroyed it. But if so why was F-Garden destroyed? Did it leave late and get caught in the Cry, suffer technical issues, or did it fall in to civil war in the aftermath, a civil war would certainly explain where the Esther came from and why they isolated themselves. Then there's the mystery of E-Garden, what was it doing so far out? The biggest hint we have comes from its summoning animation, was E-Garden a weaponized mobile shelter, or even purpose built as one, in order to prevent the Cry to begin with. It would certainly explain why it was so far out to begin with and why it was the source of such a massive drawpoint, a weapon of such power needs an energy source. But if so, what could possibly destroy it? Or maybe it was destroyed during a test fire incident...

Is the story that the Centrans created Eden to destroy the moon, failed and used the knowledge they developed to build the mobile shelters to flee the Cry they couldn't prevent. Or are all the gardens capable of such firepower...

can someone summarize the story? from what i remember: there’s a bunch of mercenary schools for orphans and they train to fight for whoever. then they get hired to assassinate a witch for some reason. then they fail. then they succeed but have to go to space to kill the queen witch. then they do but rhiona becomes a witch. then they remember their past and some lame side story who are squalls parents or something? then they go to a haunted house and kill the biggest queenist witch and then they graduate and have a party. am i wrong? i swear im not trolling this is actually how i remember it.

>>3787756
This actually makes a lot of her motivation more interesting, like her whole "IWILLNEVERLETYOUFORGETABOUTME" thing

>>3788286
>can someone summarize the story? from what i remember: there’s a bunch of mercenary schools for orphans and they train to fight for whoever. then they get hired to assassinate a witch for some reason. then they fail.
You were right up until this point. After that Squall dies at the hand of his mom's ice spike limit break. and literally nothing ever happens ever again. The end

>>3788286
Squall and Rinoa have two babies who are separated at birth, one is sent to Nibelheim

>>3788286
Bad witch from the future wants to kill time so the past doesn't kill her unintentionally causing the impetus that sealed her doom.

>>3788286
Prompt: Summarize the story of Final Fantasy 8.
Chatgpt: Final Fantasy 8 tells the story of Squall Leonhart, a reserved SeeD mercenary, who becomes entangled in a conflict against a powerful sorceress seeking to compress time and control all existence. As Squall and his companions confront this threat, they uncover forgotten childhood connections and gradually learn to open their hearts, especially as Squall falls in love with the spirited Rinoa.

>>3787844
Stfu I appreciate this thread. Your argument should be that this game actually doesn't have enough meat to actually dissect in this way. Well I guess that's what you mean by schizo

Rinoa = multimedia would've saved this games plot, much like kid = harle would've saved chrono cross.
Ff8 is a very narcissistic game. It's about squall and squall only, everyone else including rinoa are just pawns on his chessboard. In other final fantasy games the other party members feel much more like independent beings rather than just convenient things for the MC to bounce off of

>>3788286
Squall is in seed. Seed finds edea is evil so they try to kill her. Squall finds out edea is controlled by ultimecia. They free edea from ultimecia. Ultimecia going to end the earth. They kill ultimecia. The end.

>>3787914
In universe, they were Centra "Mobile Shelters". They were only repurposed as "Gardens" after the Sorceress War when Cid started training SeeDs.

"Shelter" is pretty suggestive. But it's hard to say if they were arks, colony ships, or if everything Centra built just worked like that.

They were probably a concept carried over from FF7's Cetra civilization, that was described as migratory. As well as Xenogears development, with settlements spreading out from a crashed spaceship.

They're part of a recurring element in the series. Mobile Fortress, Floating Cities. FF10's "Machina" Cities". FF11's Gardens of Ru'an. FF16's Fallen Civilization.

A bigger question is what is the engine and power driving them? In World of Final Fantasy, Balamb Garden is literally the Eidolon called Eden, as are a number of megastructures.

>>3788357
FF8 doesn't have that much substance in the first place; schizo theoryfag is just theoryfagging

>>3788362
That's just it. When you look at the surrounding games, FF8 is missing so much. The cards weren't on the table but you know they're in the deck.

So while the details of the sorceress war and the history of the Centra civilization are unwritten, we can still make educated guesses.

What is it about FF8 specifically that encourages this shit?

>>3788456
This idiot would schiz out to anything.

>>3788448
So much of it is never told to the player. It's all context clues, inferences, and background details, like the "IWILLNEVERLETYOUFORGETABOUTME" and how that fits into the entire memory-loss narrative. Like how in many of the smaller towns they're clearly living in homes that were not built by the current civilization (Balamb, for example). If someone went turbo-autist into the backgrounds and tied everything together corkboard conspiracy-style, I think there's a compelling world there.

>>3788473
schizos interpreting this games world through their cork board theories are wildly more interesting than this games actual story.

>>3788463
I think FF3 was the first title to introduce the concept of "Ancients" as a recurring story element. But I don't keep track of the changes. They borrowed inspiration from Genesis -- oh, I wonder if FF3 was meant to developed for the Sega Genesis; that would make a lot of sense.

Anyways, FF3's plot was, and still is, kind of incoherent. There was a Noah, and a flood that stopped time except for a floating continent. So it's Ancient history, but more of a time skip.

FF4 had something of a history with the Lunarians. But it's a pretty easy to understand backstory.

FF5 saw the return of ancients again. The history was kind of convoluted, splitting the world in 2, with a 1000+ time span.

FF6, the Espers could count as "Ancients"
FF7, the Cetra and Jenova
FF8, the Centra
FF9, the Terrans were the most ancient. I think Garland was somekind of artificial lifeform like the Genomes, but perhaps he was a Terran Eidolon?
FF10, Zanarkand
FF11, Zilart
FF12 (Ivalice), The Occura wiped out a city at the Pharos. It was forgotten to history.
FF13, Fang and Vanille. Caius in 13-2 would be the most ancient protecting the Farseers.
FF14, just "Ancients", I can't think of a name for their civilization or race. Pregenetors like the Zilart, but characteristically "tall". We could call them "giants".

WoFF had "Jiants" as well as "Lilikin"
FF15 had the ancient solheim civilization. Even older than Ardyn.
FF16 had the Fallen, as well as Ultima.

>>3787844
>noooo stop talking about video games
>i clicked on this thread about this thing i don't like instead of filtering "ff8" because i'm from reddit helpppppp

>>3788587
The engine behind these civilizations are generally the crystals.

But in FF8, it's suggested that the Centra civilization had nothing to do with the crystal pillar. It fell from the moon during a lunar cry? I'm not sure I believe that.

I guess the question is: why did they go with a crystal pillar as a plot device?

>>3788587
I skipped over the Ancients in FF1. The Lufenians. So I can talk about them in Stranger of Paradise as a transdimensional race, grafting parts of other dimensions onto their world and resetting it.

>>3788618
We almost got a SoP2, but they canceled it last year.

>>3787734 (OP)
FF8 needed mainly 2 things:

- A more developed story, less childish in some of its parts and more deepness.
- A completely different game mechanic system, probably more like FF7 or 6.

For the rest, it could even be a good game.

>>3789675
>explaining the joke
In FF6 you equip Magicite
In FF7 you equip Materia
You get stat boosts and abilities.
Just like equipping G.F.s in FF8

There is no difference.

>>3789675
>- A more developed story, less childish in some of its parts and more deepness.
The story was significantly cut and trimmed.

The first part of the game was supposed to be focused entirely on Laguna and his efforts to defeat Adel, but this was relegated to the dreambacks. The second, part of the game was going to be focused to his son (Squall), this ended up being the main game. The final part would be focused on their combined efforts to defeat Ultimecia, basically post-Escher.
There was also meant to be a sorceress boss-fight at the end of each disc:
>Disc 1: Adel (Vs. Laguna) - The end of the disc would have been the time-skip
>Disc 2: Edea (Vs. Squall)
>Disc 3: Adel (Vs. Squall)
>Disc 4: Ultimecia (Vs. Squall (and possibly Laguna))

>>3789708
ok how you know?

>>3787844
ff8schizo is a janny trying to force his shitty exegesis on a series that has no common symbolic language

>>3789675
>A completely different game mechanic system, probably more like FF7 or 6.
What "game mechanic system" do you mean?

>>3789842
Each disc ending with a sorceress and Lagunas cut content has been known about for years, both from interviews and from people digging through the games files. Some sources put the cut content at ~30% but a recent interview put it at half.
>Kazushige Nojima: At first, Laguna's parts were much bigger. They were making around half of Final Fantasy VIII. But as development went on, they got shorter and shorter. The staff worked really hard to make a map for Laguna's parts too, but in the end it's barely used in the final game. I always felt bad about that and couldn't apologize enough to the staff.
https://www.dualshockers.com/final-fantasy-viii-kazushige-nojima-famitsu-interview/

>>3789847
Exegesis is a strong word for theorycrafting. People want to know what happened to Raine. Just look for similar patterns across the games and extrapolate. Clearly, Raine was captured by Esthar androids and turned into a magicite capsule by Mother Brain in an alternate 1999. But then Noel (Leon spelled Backwards) traveled the History Crux and changed the timeline. Causing a time crash, splitting the world into the worlds of Balance and Ru'aun before Noel was born, resulting in an "equivalent" named "Leon" also known as "Squall"

Which means, Squall isn't technically Laguna's son per se, but Squall exists because Laguna had a son. This allows Squall to exist in the future of compressed time, the "algorithm" can't compress a "time orphan" -- unique instances that are the result of a paradox.
Moreover, Squall father was likely the G.F. Griever who was possessed by Ultima and became SIN.

>>3789970
What is Braska's Final Aeon? What exactly is a Zanarkand "Abe"

>>3789978
Abe is possibly meant to be Ave. As in "Avenue".
Like "Dog Street". However, Zanarkand, being a floating machina city, wouldn't have ordinary roads, if they have cars at all. They would technically all be bridges. Or harbors. Or stations.
The Zanarkand "way", "path", or "road" doesn't sound too strange for a sports team. Except if Abes means Aves, it's plural.

Which lends us to Avenue connotations, a means of access or arrival.
So "the aves" might be short for "the arrivals".
A dream team.
>"We have arrived"

I never got past disc 1 for FFVIII. I got looped into the draw system and my autism couldn't overcome it at the time. Is it worth going back to?

>>3791994
The story up until the end of disc 1 is considered some of the best in FF. After that, you get mixed reviews - which is probably why the "Squall is dead" theory came about.

My advice, you should at least play disc 1 till the end. If that's your fill jump on the dead train theory so you don't feel compelled to keep playing.

>>3788587
The first.

is the PC remaster of this good or did they re-localize it

>>3787734 (OP)
Can we get a HD screenshot to compare with the OP image?

>>3793033
It's good, the only negatives are Squall's new face is... different
And Siren's pubes had to be sacrificed supposedly to keep the CERO rating.
Japan has really gotten strict about that shit in the past decade

>>3793448

>>3793448
>>3793449
FF8 Schizo, what is the lore behind this change?

>>3793033
They messed with the level scaling and removed the minimum level caps on the PC version. On the PSX version certain bosses and enemies had min-max levels caps. They were pretty generous so grinding wasn't really necessary unless you were speed-running and going through side content. The most egregious of these is Omega Weapon, on the PSX it's fixed at level 100, but on the PC it'll scale down in to single digits if you're doing a no-XP run.

>>3793458
This is pretty interesting. As you know, Siren is a Guardian Force, a summon. In FF9, the appearance of a summon is based on the memories of the local culture.

As far as Final Fantasy is concerned. Siren first came to us as a shapeshifting soul-sucking fiend in FFV. What's remarkable is that she can shapeshift based on memories a person no longer has. She shapeshifted into Krile, but Galuf had amnesia and had no idea who this girl was. Also, Galuf's sexuality is very confused at that point based on his interaction with Faris.

If they were sticking to FFV, then Siren's attack should inflict Zombie Status, not Silence. Zombie is pretty overpowered.
So clearly Siren's feathered appearance must mean she's a Genome from FF9. A Siren is also the figurehead of the Tantalus Theatership. Ruby is the only known female troop member, meaning the majority of female roles must have been played by men, such as Zidane. Kuja was also a fan of theater plays. Only, perhaps, because Kuja was attempting influence the culture to shape legends and sculpt a powerful Eidolon for himself.
That's right. He's your canary: Zidane in drag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Diu2N8TGKA

>>3793500

>>3793505
Life can be harsh,
it can be bitter
But we can make it oh so sweet

>>3788618
Is this a dlc stage? I beat SoP and don't remember this level.

>>3792009
There's literally no story on disc one of FFVIII what are you talking about? No one considers that "the best of FF". Nothing happens. A guy and an endless parade of comedic relief characters go places and do menial tasks.

>>3793520
Yes, it's called "Central"

>>3793522
Disc 1 is actually 50% of the story.
Disc2&3 are 49%
Disc 4 is 1% .

The "true story" of Final Fantasy VIII is a poignant exploration of history, memory, and identity. It's a world where the biggest threats aren't just the Sorceresses of the present, but the ghosts of a forgotten past, the devastating consequences of catastrophic events, and the personal toll of amnesia. Squall's struggle is a microcosm of the world's own: a desperate fight to remember who he is and forge a future, even if the past remains an echo in the fog.

>>3793479
this doesn't sound too bad since i'm too busy to minmax these days. i'm just hoping they haven't gutted the script
>>3793448
>>3793449
this, however, i can't forgive...
i'm gonna grab it since it's on sale rn. thanks, anons

>>3793500
Silent Voice?
More like
[Nondisclosure Agreement]

>>3793687
Well, Jenova and Siren are similar in that they could take on the appearance of dead loved ones.

is type zero good does it have a fun postgame

i dont like that my characters permadie thougheverly

i knew it

>>3794279
Perma-death happens pretty regularly in the FF series.

Minwu, Josef, Richard die in FF2. But they got their own bonus Afterlife Episode in the Dawn of Souls edition, along with Scott.

Tellah, Galuf, Aerith, Zack. Sephiroth was technically playable.
Reddas and Vossler are guest members, if you want to count them.

Shadow can technically die.
There's a Ghost on the Phantom Train that's a guest member.
Auron is technically dead from the start.
Vivi is dies off screen.

Tidus kinda dies, depending on how you look at it.
Noctis was destined to die.
Serah was destined to die.
The whole world in Lightning Returns.

Then there's characters sorta died, but didn't because of time reversals, or time clones, time abortions ect...Lion, Lilisette, Iroha. Galka technically reincarnate.

Everyone in Stranger of Paradise.

Joshua. ~maybe.
Clive ~maybe.

The biggest problem with the R=U theory is how many times Rinoa came close to death. If they were the same person, Ultimecia must be confident in some plot armor, or self assured in her continued existence regardless of how the timeline changes.

Then again, lots of movies stage these dramatic and emotional moments event if they make ZERO sense.
"We need her alive"
>forgot about the high speed car chase and shootout at the beginning.

Ellone was in Balamb Garden when Seifer launched missiles at it. Did Ultimecia need Ellone or not?

Can G.F.s die? We defeat them in battle all the time. But, are they immortal nature spirits?

In FF15 the Astrals have bodies that can "die". But they are just sleeping.

"Sleeping Gods" is a recurrent thing in Final Fantasy. Even in FF8. Hyne created humans, and then went to sleep while they completed their task, literally moving a mountain.

In Type-0, summons cross over from a realm between life and death, which is why most powerful eidolons cost the summoner's life. But there's also a limited number of souls in the world, which is why they reset it.

>>3794345
But gods can also sacrifice their own essence to create life. For example, Promathia sacrificed a part of himself to create the sentient races of Vana'diel. He can't return without taking everyone's soul back. (Don't ask me how that works with branching timelines).

I think FF11 was the first game to have this "gate" of souls.
While FF13 and the Nova Chrysalis mythos had Etro's Gate.

FF8 was mostly devoid of a spiritual cosmology. However, ghosts are real and seen to be trapped in tombs. Likewise, Laguna questioned if the Lunatic Pandora was the same as gravestones, which seems like an odd question. Unless the writers were suggesting that it holds or repels spirits.

>>3794347
Which is what the Mothercrystals do. They're hold onto souls to be reincarnated.

Incidentally, that's what the Esper Ultima's job was in FF12, who you find in the giant crystal.
And in FFT, the Lucavi demons only possess people intune with the Auracite.

Speaking of FFT. Nnggggg. There had to have been more to the story that was cut. Orran and Valmafra are seen at a graveside service.
We know Valmafra was supposed to be a sorceress and they cut her story from the game. The service was allegedly for Alma. As one mourner says Ramza won't be buried. Implying his body was never found. But Alma's was? And...did Orran even met Alma?

>>3787756
>If everyone's memory is faulty
Only garden students/seeds junction GFs
It's also a relatively new technology. It wasn't present during the war laguna was in until the time travel.

>>3794341
your image literally has one die

>>3794378
I've always seen GFs as a kind of living memory, occupying the region of the summoner's brain related to memory. "Memory" is an english word with english connotations.
Synonymous with consciousness, sense, or cognition.

In Buddhism there are 8 consciousnesses or senses. Your 5 primary senses, your ideas, and emotions. The VIIIth consciousness is called the "storehouse", as in the place where seeds are stored.
"Seed" in this sense is a metaphor, and has to do with the idea of karma carried over to the next life. A kind of memory of former lives.

It's a poetic language. Your thoughts can be scattered easily. But they also lie dormant with latent effect, sprouting in response to some conditional trigger. It might be easier to call these seeds "instinct" or "reflex".
Like maternal instincts. Or "moé", which might be related to words for "budding" or "sprouting"

Of course FF8 has a different kind of SeeD. Which Ellone plants in Laguna's head, empowering him with their GFs, courage, and emotion.

Note to self: talk about Mobius' Chaos

>>3787734 (OP)
>this is a game where nobody mentioned that monsters rain down from the moon until it was about to happen
my favorite thing about FF8 schizo is that he actually doesn't know shit about the game.

>schizo schizo schizo schizo schizo schizo schizo
These specimen do not fit in and need to leave 4chan.

FF8anon, you got any recommendations for a decent/fun indie FF1like?

>>3794875
Lore wise, FF Mobius is like if FF1 and FF2 had a baby. I say FF2. But I'm talking about the FF2 novelization.
So this isn't really surface level stuff.

Basically there were mages that used their magic to fulfill the world's desires. In FF2 (novel), they did a yearly love spell ceremonies. But there was one kingdom that didn't receive their boon, and were thus "loveless", which made them susceptible to Satan's puppet strings.

Mobius uses a lot of series staples that began with FF1. Princess Serah, Chaos, Garland, Cid, ect...
Chaos was just an ordinary lord that forced Serah to marry him. Naturally she didn't love him and he resented that, even though she was a faithful wife. Rumors spread that she and Cid had a thing going on. It's like Lancelot and Guinevere. So Chaos held a tournament and forced Cid to complete. Of course every tournament has a black knight, this being Garland. The victor would be allowed to choose a new law for the world. These are magick laws. It's unknown how many laws exist.
The first law "None shall remember the name of those who don't fight"
I believe that was the point of forcing Cid into the tournament. He expected him to bow out, and thus Serah would have her memory wiped.
Long story short, Chaos falls into a flood gate and births a bunch of monsters, becoming Sin basically, which the warrior of light (Cid) has to defeat. He was successful. Too successful. In creating a surplus of the light of hope, a new world order was created to reenacted this story forever. And share the light of hope with other worlds (via a "gate"). It's not a timeloop exactly, but the world will reset if the "story" goes off the rails.

This means Chaos is forever a cuck and Garland is never allowed to win. Serah has to suffer. Palamecia is one giant loosh farm.

On a whim I decided to get some rare cards starting with the Zell card. I've beaten Zell's mom ~25 times now and she hasn't played it once, even left the town after every 2 games for rng. So frustrating, I might skip most rare cards. Got one Elnoyle though.

>>3795268
The laws of Palamecia can be bent and broken. Although breaking a law brands you as a "heretic" and pitted against the Sicarius. The Sicarius are the closest thing to summons, they are called "Ancient Gods of War".

Meia is the "Azure Witch", as such she possesses untold abilities. For instance, she doesn't forget. She can't forget. Or perhaps, the Sicarius are meant to take her memories, but she is successful in defeating them.

"Sicarius", meaning "dagger", were also assassins that opposed Roman rule, and possibly connected to the biblical Judas and the title -iscariot. But there are many interpretations to that.
It's also a type of recluse spider, which typically have a violin shape mark, but the sicarius are violin-less.
Ironically it might also describe a person who is prone to violence.

>>3795272
Oh weird, I must have been lucky then. She had it the first game and I won it right then and there. I didn't even know she couldn't play it.

>>3795330
Maybe I'm too late, she starts playing it after the opening mission and I'm already on disc 3. I'm worried she stops playing it at some point. I can't get the cafeteria bros to play Quisty's card either.
Just loaded up on chems and going to play til sunrise, trying to decide if I want to do cards, chocobo forests, or just get on with the game. Already did all of shumi village, that was chill.

>>3795335
>chocobo forests
unironically the most tedious fucking thing in the game. It's basically just one of those "turn off all the fucking lights" games, but with the grid replaced by a vague 3D space and some annoying, pointless extra steps thrown in.

They were really struggling to try and pad this game out to 4 discs, huh?

>>3796718

What did they mean by this?

>>3787914
>what was their original purpose? We know the Centrans consider them mobile shelters
probably exactly that; a way to avoid lunar cries and stay safe from monsters afterwards

>>3788357
>Rinoa = multimedia
kek, nice autocorrect

>>3788357
>Ff8 is a very narcissistic game. It's about squall and squall only, everyone else including rinoa are just pawns on his chessboard.
It's called a male power fantasy. Like most jRPGs or anime. If you expected a well rounded plot of character nuance then you're looking in the wrong place. This game is about party management and a guy overcoming his anxieties to become a leader.

>>3796805
They are both flower lotus type machines. In Kingdom Hearts, Sora is placed in a pod for a year while Namine and Diz fix his memory. A side effect was that everyone forgot who Sora was.

Adel's pod, as far as we know, just sealed her magic. There was also a jamming field to prevent "outside junctioning", which also caused radio interference grounding airships and wireless transmissions.

The "speculation" bit is that the memory of Adel has been altered.
The concept of "Lotus-eaters" originated as a hazard from the Odyssey. The lotus is a sweet narcotic that makes people bliss out and forget their journey, and the family and home they're mean to return to. They are apathetic.

FF14 also has a memory "reconfiguration" device. The Kairos. Which, like Castle Oblivion in KH:Chain of Memories, erases and plants false memories. These scenarios all share imagery with "shooting stars".

>>3798266
This >>3796718 pod might also be the Junction Machine Ellone. The J.M.E. was named but never seen.
As you know, Ellone wanted to force Laguna to stay with Raine in the flower town of Winhill. So her powers are something of a "Lotus-eater" machines as well.

This could be just a part of the Esthar Sorceress seal. After rescuing Rinoa from the Memorial site, she tells squall about her dream of promising to see shooting stars, but not knowing where to go.

>>3788357
>Ff8 is a very narcissistic game. It's about squall and squall only, everyone else including rinoa are just pawns on his chessboard.
Honestly I feel like this was unintentional and simply resulted from the fact that the game was so rushed they didn't fucking have time to give anyone else any development beyond their base characterizations.

>>3789891
>Some sources put the cut content at ~30% but a recent interview put it at half.
I feel like FF8 had to be pared back so ruthlessly from very early on that there isn't really a good measure of what got left "on the cutting room floor" because they probably started cutting before they even finished writing.

>>3798235
>It's called a male power fantasy.
Most FF games aren't male power fantasies at all, though. In fact, a majority of the most popular ones involve male characters who are utterly fucked up and never would have succeeded without help from their friends.

>>3798452
>Most FF games aren't male power fantasies at all
VIII is very much a male power fantasy. Not a bad thing btw, most things I like are. Sure, they have a power of friendship moment in the Ragnarok but as the game is there's only minor character development for anyone else.
It is at its core about Squall overcoming anxiety and opening up to people while becoming a badass swordsman.
I've looked heavily into the original ideas for the game and like to imagine, too, but it is what it is.

>>3787734 (OP)
>I assume the unanswered questions and mysteries in FF8 are a consequence of abandoned plot threads.
what's this?

>>3798873
That's the excavation site. It's hard to image the Crystal Pillar laying on it's side here. Presumably Esthar built the Lunatic Pandora around it.
However Dr. Odine says they found it and "serviced it", As if the Lunatic Pandora was a refurbished Centra Artifact. It's dumb because it would be hard to miss a literal mountain of crystal. Unless it was partly enclosed and covered with forest of overgrowth.

That said. Other crystal towers across the FF series have "sunk" into the ground.

>>3798912

>>3798912
>>3798915
thats a lot of vegetation compared to the world map location

>>3798929
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EOKmaz3TJhk

In the Jurassic Park novel there is a character, Ian Malcolm, that rambles on about "Chaos Theory". In the book this is partly because he's high on morphine after a T-rex injures his leg.
But his rambling frames the story's theme. That humans can't control, or predict, a complex system such as nature, let alone a park, with so many variables.

This is a mathematical "chaos". But chaos is a recurring element and entity in the series. Back in the 90s the idea of chaos was surely influencing a lot of media, including FF8. But what is the "chaos" in FF8? Is there a system of control going out of control?
Well, it does have a sort of time travel plot. Certainly small changes to the past would have a drastic impact on the future.

>>3798940
While tracking a molecule in a cloud would be a chaotic system. The movement of the cloud itself and the inevitable rainfall is much easier to predict.
Chaos Theory often comes with the "butterfly effect" imagery, but rain and rain-adjacent symbolism like umbrellas and rainbows are a close second.

Another pop culture influence might be Tom Clancy. His books, and endorsed video games, typically involve weaponized viruses or missile threats. So you have titles like Pandora Tomorrow and Chaos Theory, related to global pandemics and the unpredictability of how countries respond to small conflicts.

In FF8, you definitely have a missle crisis and a loose idea of how countries like Timber or Trabia are meant to respond. For example, when Trabia goes to war all its citizens are conscripted, that would probably include Selphie. Who is briefly unavailable after returning.
This is to force you to go to Balamb first, after gaining control of the garden, Squall will refuse to visit Trabia without Selphie who is "sleeping".

There's nothing critical about visiting Balamb first. It's just that we see Galbadia Garden is also mobile now. And that they're looking for Ellone. Then in Trabia Garden we get the Orphanage Recollection scene. But there's nothing about Trabia that made it happen. They could have had the same conversation in Balamb Garden or anywhere else.
And the game completely forgets about liberating Timber from Galbadia control.
There's definitely a missing scenerio where Zone and Watts join the White SeeD ship. Perhaps they were there when the garden was adrift and they picked up Ellone. The fact that Rinoa has a unique FMV if she is there and not the missle base, suggest the writers intended her to stay with Squall. And she could have left with Ellone, to join the Forest Owls.

>>3798962
What FF8 doesn't have is a plague or virus. The "Pandora" weaponizes the Lunar Cry. But it's more than just falling monsters. The "energies" also mutate wildlife, according the terms in the help menu.

It's possible Timber was liberated by the events in Disc 2. As the Galbadia army went looking for Ellone. Dollet, Timber, and Dieling City become a distant memory. Rinoa would need a new reason to stay with Squall if that were the case. Shame the remaster didn't add scenes and have Quistis take Rinoa on a SeeD exam to acquire a G.F.
Perhaps it could have introduced the Lunar Cry earlier in the game to preoccupy these other countries. Or foreshadowed it, to excuse themselves from going to war, when a lunar cry is predicted.

>>3798929
Think of the amount of infrastructure they would have needed to excavate something the size of the Lunatic Pandora. They would have needed to construct an entire settlement to support the personnel and support teams.

And when they were done they probably glassed the site from orbit to deny their enemies (Galbadia) the infrastructure for a potential staging ground.

schizo thread

>>3798452
The real male fantasy is having friends. Being able to beat up almost anybody you meet is trivial; quality instructional manuals on boxing, karate, weightlifting, calisthenics, military and police hand-to-hand and close quarter battle tactics are easy to pirate and too old and unmarketable for crapital to bother having removed, but people who actually care about you and will lay it on the line in your defense? To even want such a thing is to incarnate toxic masculinity and you're basically a fascist nazi commie wyspremciss incel chud for consuming media where that's a thing.

>>3799352
These are androids. Called "Terminators" in the art book. Esthar has an army of robots. Not to mention the magic of the most powerful sorceress in the world

That's not to say there weren't actually humans there. Laguna and Co. escaped on Esthar boats after all. But it's weird Esthar has boats (In the first place, Esthar doesn't have any ports or beaches), when they have airships like the Ragnarok. They could probably commute. From SPACE if they wanted.

It's a wonder Adel bothered building the Pandora at all. She could raw dog it. She could "Wingardium Leviosa" it and just drop it on a town. It's 3 miles tall! The fact that it also summons a lunar cry is overkill.

In retrospect, if Adel wanted to rule to world, she could have.

>>3799466
>These are androids. Called "Terminators" in the art book. Esthar has an army of robots.
I always imagined them as Guyver Bio-armour.

>>3799409
>The real male fantasy is having friends.
This is funny to me because VIII has to be one of the FFs that does the worst job of embodying this fantasy. 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 13, and 15, all do it better.

Also, take your meds.

I read some speculation on a japanese forum, that they see Adel as wanting to kill herself, or at least planned to die.

All of Adel's actions could be the result of Ultimecia and Rinoa being connected to her past.
She could also be something like X-men's Apocalypse, planning to body swap.

>>3800196
The thing that never made sense was the Sorceress Memorial in Laguna's time. It's possible Adel wasn't the only sorceress shot into space.

>>3802016
It could have been an air base.
Or the Lunar Base's ground control. Or a related lab, the same way the Lunatic Pandora has its own laboratory that's still around 17 years after they sunk it in the ocean.

The lunar gate is a railgun that shoots cryo-pods into space. But, the sorceress memorial has that too. The launch site of Adel's Tomb and the Ragnarok ships.

What's interesting is that the Lunar Gate is pointed at the Sorceress Memorial, it's got a spinning chamber like a revolver that's labeled "Tin Can Shooter".
I suspect the plot to trap Adel might have initially mirrored the trap for Edea. Sealing her in a different kind of gate, and firing a different kind of gun.

>>3802046
Actually, the music for the Edea battles is called "Premonition".

Edea's parade float is identical to Ultimecia's throne in the final battle.
And for the 2nd battle, if you turn your head sideways and squint, there's also something about Edea falling down into the "Auditorium" that reflects Adel falling out of the sky.

If they were foreshadowing in this way, with G-Garden being the equivalent to Lunatic Pandora, then perhaps the Pandora was suppose to clash with another massive mobile fort echoing Balamb Garden.

Adel was likely an exported character from Xenogears. If you didn't know, FF8 was rushed for a holiday release with help from the Xenogears team.

Adel, I believe, is essentially Id. Obviously there's incompatible story elements with the final version. But there are beats, like the carbon freezing that match up.
Or how the Zeboim civilization had this prophesied messiah character that would lead them to a "New Horizon". The Esthar Scientists, once freed, created "Fisherman's Horizon".

As you know.
Laguna tricked Adel with a hologram of Ellone, Flash-Froze her, then launched her into space!

But here's a different idea:
What if Adel and Laguna where the same person.

Think about it. Dr.Odine copied Ellone's power to create the Junction Machine Ellone, which Ultimecia used to possess sorceresses in the past. But why Sorceresses? Is that a choice? A rule? A law?
Whenever Ellone uses her powers, she's connected to Laguna in the past. It would make sense then for Ultimecia to possess Laguna as well.

Of course, if Adel was Laguna possessed by Ultimecia, it would fundamentally change the story.

>>3802816
Another thought:
If the Xenogears team grafted an abandoned plot thread from Xenogears into FF8, then what might that have been?

In Xenogears, we know Id destroyed Elru, and the only survivors were Ramsus and Domina. Data miners have found that Domina was potentially a playable character at some point in development. Domina is a female, which means she was a potential host for "Mother".

>>3802856
Instead, "Mother" possessed Myyah traveling with Ramsus. This relationship is weird, because she's like his mother. This dynamic is also seen with Barnabas in FF16.

>>3802859
If I remember correctly, "Mother" aka Myyah, was going to kill Elly. Because together their collective will/consciousness makes Elehayym, which becomes one with Deus. Deus being a giant robot formed from the biomass of humanity; she'd be it's head.
Ramsus, feeling used and unloved, kills Myyah first, and she conveniently awakens in Elly's body by chance. As far as I know, the female host she awakens in was supposed to be random, and she has no control over it. So this was just a serendipitous surprise, which isn't too hard to swallow that close to the ending.

But stepping back to look at the broader material, I think the Myyah personality was supposed to awakened in Domina. Domina is like the Red Ranger of the "Elements". An elite group from a military academy we never actually see in-game. Imagine playing FF8, calling everyone "SeeDs" but never showing the Gardens.

The Elements all pilot unique beast-like gears which combine into a giant-mech called G-Elements. Elly was an Element candidate, but was rejected due to an incident. Which is weird because she was supposed to be half the consciousness to head Deus- she should be over qualified. In retrospect, maybe she didn't fail, Myyah was just planning to sacrifice her.

Being the head of the Elements, probably made Domina the idea "head" for Deus as well.

>>3803196
Dominia is also the "Earth" element. And even though Deus was supposed to this biomass thing made up of humanity, it looks more like it's sculpted out of the ground.

Of course everyone knows the Xenogears project was simultaneously pitched to be Final Fantasy 7, and a sequel to Chrono trigger.

Chrono Cross' Tower of Geddon looked similar to Deus.
While Omega Weapon in Dirge of Cerberus was closer in execution.

What FF8 shares with Xenogears is a large crater near a lighthouse and an orphanage. The body jumping Ultimecia is similar to Myyah.
It's just that Myyah was following her programming.
"Dreams" of another man living another life...