Why has there not been a game that tried to actually try the Fallout route? Particularly the reactivity.
To date, there are still only 3 games that gave importance to player reactivity:
>Arcanum
>Fallout
>Fallout 2

In these 3 games, the world reacts, at a minimum, to your character's intelligence. If you have a low int character, NPCs will treat your character like an idiot, mostly to humorous effect. Now this is mostly flavor-text, but beyond just low-int dialog, the world actually reacted to your actions and choices.

Fallout 1
>if you were careless to who you divulged the location of Vault 13, the timer would lessen.
>killing children will get you branded as a child killer
>multiple ways to approach quests

Arcanum
>some quests are different depending on who you have on your party and who you kill
>what you do is reflected in Tarant's newspaper
>multiple ways to approach quests

>>3792592 (OP)
Because players have shown that having things like romances, no matter how shitty, is what sells. Not reactivity.

>>3792592 (OP)
Here's the thing. People always gush about reactivity and commend the games for them, but rarely actually take advantage of it. MOST people don't play games all that many times, and of those, most don't bother doing a complete playthrough with say, a total dumbass just to see all the changes that causes.
This is a problem because you want your dev time and resources to matter, to pay off. Rewriting nearly every single bit of dialogue knowing that the majority of players won't see it feels pointless. Same goes for writing modular news reports/papers when you know for a fact most players won't go for certain options (because statistically players veer toward the more 'good' options, and if available beeline for the golden outcome, etc)
There's a balance to it, of course, and putting NO effort into reactivity results in a perpetual feeling of detachment, such as when the vast majority of people in the world seem incapable of recognizing the character's race or class or deity or whatever even when it is extremely relevant to the situation. But as long as you avoid that, you'll keep people happy without feeling like you wasted time and effort that could've been spent elsewhere. And certainly without risking that really being the case.

>>3792592 (OP)
You should give Encased a try. It's got exactly what you're asking. Apart from the children. First half of the game is spectacular but it's clear they rushed the latter.

>>3792592 (OP)
>To date, there are still only 3 games that gave importance to player reactivity
Dumb boomer

>>3792644
One of the biggest disappointments I've had in the recent years.
I will NEVER get over how they've butchered the prologue compared to EA. Turning a whole prelude with multiple quests and locations, acclimatizing you and giving you a proper frame of reference for pre-maelstrom Cronus, interacting with the wings, forming at least some attachment here and there... into fucking nothing, an accelerated crash course and fuck off to the main plot start.

>>3792592 (OP)
>>multiple ways to approach quests
Wow OP no game has done this since Arcanum, truly, a lost art

>>3792649
>I will NEVER get over how they've butchered the prologue compared to EA.Turning [it] into fucking nothing, an accelerated crash course and fuck off to the main plot start.
I've got to disagree with you here, yes it's been cut back, but it's not exactly short. And I can understand why they made the decision. As a prologue it was actually a large bulk of the game. The issue is they should have fully-fleshed out the final acts BEFORE cutting content. Instead they cut content and never got round to adding it's replacement.

>>3792599
it's impossible to not take advantage of reactivity, i think you mean they don't replay the game and try out alternate paths through that reactivity, but that's not really necessary when the player already gets the result they want, the point is that the things that make sense for them happen instead of a generic beige outcome or one randomly selected outcome that most people won't identify with

>>3792592 (OP)
What about Age of Decadence?

>>3792592 (OP)
What about Alpha Protocol?

Walk into town
>guard is compliments my ebony armor
Walk past the smithy
>that battlecuck still seething about me siding with greychads
Get to market
>that bitch flirting cause i gave her some tusk
Sit down at an inn
>hot waiter brings me an ale
Get comfy
>bard starts singing about me defeating that black son of a wyvern

Another great day of just being a dragonchad

>>3792644
I dived into it. It's cool and all but the gameplay is just not fun. It's like playing Fallout 1 with Wasteland 2's controls while shitface drunk.
But comparing it to all the slop being put out lately with a budget, Encased is pretty damn good - especially if you got it for free

I've given up. I think I've played my last CRPG. Should have never cared.

>>3792668
By comparison, it certainly is short. But its length isn't the the heart of the problem here, so whatever. The point is that it feels sterile and hollow by comparison, because as you say, they gutted it without re-adding anything.
>And I can understand why they made the decision.
Don't mistake my disapproval for ignorance. I can understand why a decision was made and still condemn it. They've made a mistake making the prologue as extensive as it was, yes - their solution was fucking awful, and the game is far worse off for it. The only saving grace is that most people won't be aware of it since they've never played the EA, but to me that's no argument.

Can you guys recommend other turn based games with at least some reactivity?

>>3792839
Well, you can get some in ToEE if you dump your INT there too.

>>3792839
colony ship

>>3792592 (OP)
>>killing children will get you branded as a child killer
this was corny as fuck.

>>3793020
Based paladin. Make sure to marry the girl and get the holy sword as your dowry, then come home to her after big Z.

>>3793530
why?

>>3792592 (OP)
why are you acting like this isn't basically every wrpg since ultima 4. almost every rpg ever made has reactivity, what are these CRPGs you're playing where they don't flag your actions down the line?

>>3793574
It's a more esoteric variable than the karma/reputation system + Moralfagging over the deaths of children in a wasteland where child mortality would be at the level of the Dark Ages (advancements in medical technologies not withstanding, which is largely counteracted by the literal radioactive landscape with giant monsters and raiders roaming about) is a bit silly.

>>3793580
>Moralfagging over the deaths of children in a wasteland where child mortality would be at the level of the Dark Ages
do you think early medieval society did not care about child killers?
>It's a more esoteric variable than the karma/reputation system
this is pretty much purely a good thing, specificity makes things feel more relevant and real, it is more engaging when the game actually engages with what you do over broad categorization.

>>3793601
not saying it wouldn't be frowned upon, its just not something everyone would pool resources towards ensuring you get your comeuppance for the rest of your days, especially since most children you go after are some hapless brats of some backwater farmers.

>>3792592 (OP)
Disco Elysium

>>3793550
>paladin
nah, that's not me

>>3792592 (OP)
BG3 has a lot more reactivity than Arcanum and I've played both extensively, is this a troll thread?

In BG3 there are many quest chains that start in act 1 and conclude in act 3, and your choices carry over between all the steps. Whereas in Arcanum almost every quest is standalone. You can kill absolutely every single character in BG3 while Arcanum still has some invincible ones (the Silver Lady most notably, but also a few cheeky ones like the herbalist in Shrouded Hills, she respawns if killed because she's the failsafe for the find Qintarra quest). BG3 has actual companions with story arcs and many choices and endings, whereas Arcanum only has Virgil and Magnus, and the others are bots with barely any dialog

OP is either a schizo or just a thirdie poorfag whose PC can't run anything more modern than Arcanum.

>>3793743
Or the common boomer stuck in the 2000s

>>3793743
kys moeblob. tranny

>>3793743
>is this a troll thread?
Are you retarded? Of course it is. OP is being purposefully dense. There's plenty of games with choices and consequences.

>>3793754
So what if I am??

>>3793743
>BG3 has a lot more reactivity than Arcanum
No it doesn't. Most of it is smoke and mirrors or just a tiny pointless nod later.
There's a shit ton of dialogues and shit that just railroads you, with just some room to make some dumb quip or something.
I bet you're the kind of idiot that thinks BG3 is the game with the best reactivity ever, as is usually case with BG3 fanboys.

>>3792592 (OP)
KoTOR has plenty.
>>3793759
>I bet you're the kind of idiot that thinks BG3 is the game with the best reactivity ever, as is usually case with BG3 fanboys
You're the one spazzing out because someone dared to compare BG3 to a game you like. You're projecting your fanboyishness.

>>3792644
Woke trash, unplayable, and poorly translated.

>>3792594
They don't. Sneaking it in on a patch a year later, buying a multi billion dollar franchise to borrow the name, and spending a shitload on advertising has more to do with it than fucking a bear.

>>3793766
Maybe you should stop making assumptions idiot, I don't like BG3 or Arcanum. But unlike you I am rational and aware enough to realize what is proper reactivity or not.

the only game i remember with actual good reactivity was vampire the masquerade bloodlines

>>3793827
What in particular did you like from that game?

>>3793858
specifically the reactivity, unironically, until you got to the rushed lategame you really did have so much influence on where and how events progress

>>3793889
What reactivity? Have I missed something

>>3793903
yes, a nice video game, apparently

isn't reactivity is a buzzword born from bg3 marketing?

>>3792599
This, and many rpg's nowadays are too long and too massive which makes repeat playthroughs less enticing, who'd want to play the game again after just spending 150 hours doing it? When it comes to such games I only get the urge to replay them after like 2 years and by then I've forgotten so much that I end up making the same choices as the previous time

>>3794025
brain issue

>>3794033
maybe, but i think my point is legit regarding rpg's that are too long

>>3794048
for you.

>>3794053
get this hothead outta here

>>3794025
>150 hours
What RPGs are you spending that much time on?? That's like 3 games.

>>3794062
i should've clarified that i mean game series. i usually play through for example the witcher and mass effect series in order and each series becomes at least 100 hours when it's done.

>>3794064
Well yeah, you talked about many rpgs, and games. And now mention two series..

>there are people on this board that think the primary point of c&c is replayability and if you don't replay then the c&c is pointless
I think some people just shouldn't be allowed to live

>>3794107
Wow, look at edgy boy over here

>>3794111
nice trips, and perceiving a bit of hyperbole as edgy on 4chan is crazy.

>>3794112
Thanks, and it's a joke buddy, don't look that deeply into it, I figured the exact phrasing was goofy enough

>>3793940
>zoomers now think bg3 was the first crpg ever
lmao

>>3792592 (OP)
>New Vegas
>Age of Decadence
>BG3
Those three have

>>3794865
17,000+ ending permutations, chud
>releases game with like three endings
Uhh uhhhhhhh uhhhh uhhh errrrrrr

>>3794865
reactivity is a fairly new buzzword in crpg spaces.

>>3794970
doesn't matter, people have been harping about it for a very long time, with games like pst and vtmb

>>3794971
"c&c" was popular with storyfag dialogue tree tards, sure.

>>3792592 (OP)
what is it with 90s, 2000s rpgs and their obsession with swamp/sewer levels? that thing in your screenshot looks fugly

>>3795455
If only you knew...
That's not a swamp or sewer. That's MEANT to be an elven city in the treetops.

>>3795456
there is the sewer dungeon in the first city though

>>3793743
>You can kill absolutely every single character in BG3
Factually incorrect.
t. attempted to murder that piece of shit gyppo kid Mol and bounced off armor of invincibility
You can murder little goblins all you want but any human(ish) children are strictly off limits. The only way for that shitstain to die is to take all her abuse without a word and then lead an entire grove massacre so the gobbos can end her for you off-screen.

>>3793743
>You can kill absolutely every single character in BG3
Try killing Gale
>DM: you killed my self-insert, resurrect me or I’m ending the campaign
Or the Emperor when you first meet him
>DM: game over man, game over
Or go down the road in act 2 to storm the absolutes army camp and have le ebin battle after sitting there on the cliffs lobbing fireballs at the enemies below
>DM: I’m teleporting you to safety chud it’s for your own good
Etc
BG3 is “but thou must!” territory. I’ve never felt my agency and choices as a player so disrespected as that game.

>>3798592
>I’ve never felt my agency and choices as a player so disrespected as that game.
Maybe because despite everything, it offers more choice than most

>>3798593
Perhaps that’s why I found it so immersion-breaking. I’d personally much prefer
>thing happens because plot requires it
which we are all used to, as opposed to
>do you want thing? Y/N
>just kidding you chose wrong. A/R/F

>>3798645
You need to choose better or face the consequences

>>3795621
And in Caladon, too, yeah. But the comment was about the screencap.

>>3798752
it is a bit of a green-brown sewer and coincidentally elves are the shittiest faction in the game...

>>3794025
I agree