I'll do it. I'll fucking do it. I'll finish Kingmaker. Druid, Defender of the Free World.
Wish me luck.

>>3795796 (OP)
Hear me out:
Feyspeaker

>>3795796 (OP)
nah you wont
you'll drop it a little over half-way through
been there done that

time to admit the game is underbaked

>>3795869
hey, he might get further than halfway
last time I tried I got almost to Act 5 before being totally burned out
then again that burned me out so fucking bad I haven't even had the urge to try it again since, so

No game better encapsulates the term "flawed gem" than Pathfinder Kingmaker.
I played Tower Shield Specialist from beginning to end.

>>3795796 (OP)
Hear me out:
CG Bandit King: Archaelogist/Rogue
You cannot fail, and you cannot fail to have fun.

>>3795796 (OP)
The prospect of having to deal with the fucking kingdom management shit throws me off every time. And the fact that they allow you to auto-win at it is really telling

>>3795796 (OP)
Is this your first time playing it?

>>3796062
cant you automate it?

>>3796072
That's just admitting defeat, though. It's the timed aspect that's the real issue in the game for most people. Yes, unless you're retarded game is more than generous so it's never a problem, but just the fact it exists is a turn off for many.

I want to give the call of the wild mod a shot but I just don't think I can make it through another playthrough of this game. Everything after the cyclops chapter is such a slog.
I wish it had proper mod support so some autist could completely revamp the campaign.

>>3795799
Feyspeaker would be great if not for the fact that it has 1/2 BAB.

>>3796096
Don't worry, Owlcat already said they plan to remake the game somewhere down the line.

>>3796072
IIRC you miss out on some content if you automate it. Better to manage it manually and just set it to super easy so you don't have to think about it.

>>3796085
It doesn't help that the time aspect is so ass-backwards compared to what you'd expect from an RPG. In most RPGs you'll want to do the sidequests as quickly as possible before you progress the main quest, but in Kingmaker you need to rush the main quest whenever it pops up so you have more time to spend on sidequests.

>>3796168
>constant improved enhanced definitive this time for real editions
>still needs a remake/remaster less than a decade later
Jeez oh man

>>3796168
they don't even have the rights to the game, its not gonna happen bro.
Also knowing owlcat they would add more problems then they fix.

>>3796234
>they don't even have the rights to the game, its not gonna happen bro.

They don't have the rights to that particular version of the game, but they have for the IP. Which is why they want to remake it.

>>3796085
for me it's the aspect of the game actively not letting me go on adventures until I'm finished with my chores
FUCK
THAT
SHIT

>>3796085
>It's the timed aspect that's the real issue in the game for most people
It's actually that it's got rudimentary and empty maps, garbage encounter design and poor pacing.

I took amiri to her tribe, she killed the leader and argued with her old friend. I guess I fucked it up and she's gonna die in hateot?
I didn't wanna get in the middle of her struggle, like why does this game make it so you are the only one who knows how to fix everything?

>>3796310
muh power fantasy, even at the cost of making everyone else incompetent or have the decision-making ability of a child

>>3796310
>house
Non of the companions die as long as you complete their quest.The ending does not matter.The whole your companions due shit was either made up shortly after the release or because of bugs.

>>3796351
Oh well that's a relief

>>3795796 (OP)
be sure to make the right choice, anon

>>3796284
You would be amazed by how many don't like the fact there's a time limit hanging over them.

>>3795796 (OP)
>Defender of the Free World.
that or sylvan sorcerer make the most sense thematically. then again there's no paladin companion in kingmaker so being one would make sense as the archetypal hero.

>>3795869
>>3795891
S-SHUT UP

>>3796085
I can't remember what it was specifically but I enabled some cheat for a replay that made it not annoying. It's fun enough to see how different staff handles different jobs.

>>3796357
I am so accustomed to using the modded portraits I can barely recognize the originals. Especially for Nyrissa.

I have played to the finish line twice but never done the final dungeon

tried twice, took multiple false starts to get into it both times. it's so fucking BORING, UGLY, TEDIOUS. total slog. the kingdom management was the best part.

>>3796357
No worries, I did

>>3795796 (OP)
So how do you play a druid? Summoning,. buff machine, focus on pet?

>>3796415
>1) Pick Smilodon
>2) Cast healing/resistances/Buffs/summons and stand back
>3) ???
>4) PROFIT

or

1) Roll High STR/DEX
2) Prebuff
3) Polymorph
4) Suffer in melee
5) ???
6) Kinda PROFIT

>>3796429
If you pick anything but a Smilodon/anything that doesn't have trip you're automatically retarded

>>3796780
if you're playing on normal or lower just go with whatever you like. five attacks is insane, though.

>>3796284
wotr has the same problems and people love that game.

>>3796821
Yes, people are idiots.

>>3796415
>>3796429
real question is animal domain or delayed animal companion

>>3796859
Going AD gets you better summons later on, but like you said it delays getting a pet to level 4. With how OP they are this can be a big thing early on.

>>3795796 (OP)
Are you one of those "choice paralysis" people who can't finish any rpg? Sounds like a legit mental illness to me. You should get that checked out. I've never felt like quitting my run unfinished and wasting hours of progress. Once I make a character I stick with it until the end, whether that be 20 hours or 200.

>>3796780
I had a lot of fun as an ecclesitheurge of Erastil with an elk in Varnhold's Lot, with CotW installed. You get to share personal buffs with your pet, and transform him into a smilodon with an elk's extra bonk on charge later on.

>>3796913
>CotW
did you disable any features?

>>3796902
Good for you. What a meaningless post.

>>3795796 (OP)
Speaking of which is there a respec mod that actually works? Anoriel Eight Eyes retraining option seems to be bugged.

>>3797070
Both "Bag of Tricks" and "Respecialisation mod" work.

>>3796937
Only class changes for companions, unless I'm forgetting something.

>>3795796 (OP)
Where are you currently at in terms of progress OP?

>>3795796 (OP)
>>3795869
I redownloaded this game and tried to get into it again a few days ago but had to stop after just a few hours. It's aggressively boring and the combat, which is most of the game, sucks donkey balls. I started replaying Tyranny instead which is not also way more interesting but also has the best implementation of Real Time with Pause combat in any game ever - it's still RTwP but it's at least moderately fun and engaging most of the time. I'm not looking forwards to the mindnumbing Bane fights or the shitty final act but it doesn't ruin the rest of the game for me.

>>3795796 (OP)
>mfw we discover OP has restarted again before uninstalling the game

>>3796821
People who love WotR but hate KM are disingenuous, they are basically the same game with minor tweaks here and there.
They don't like the relaxed fantasy setting of KM and prefer the power-fantasy and grim/demon themed setting of WotR, that's all.
Both have the same problem and strength, same gameplay, same mechanics, etc.
I like both game, with a slight preference for KM because of the setting.
They also insist that KM in particular is a game that no one complete because it's boring.
Both game are slog-fest, all owlcat games are slog-fest with cringe companions.
You either like them or not, I can't see how you can love WotR and hate KM, they are the same game.

>>3796359
>sylvan sorcerer
Honestly a better choice. Lawful Charismatic is the best one for both adventuring and Kingdom. Then again, there is no Druid in the game otherwise.

>>3802089
This, but DOS2 and BG3.

>>3802089
You can skip cutscenes in Wrath.
Nuff said.

>>3802089
I guess the crusade is perhaps more actively involved? More people need to realize what they actually want to play is Heroes of Might & Magic.

Rest assured, this will be the sixth time we've reached Troll Trouble before dropping the game, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

Different anon here. Also about to start this game for the first time. Anything I should know? I've heard some quests are timed and can be missed. As someone who hates missing quests for shit like that, how can I avoid it and what should I look for? Is there a list or something? Also, is a pure wizard okay for challenging difficulty?

>>3802089
I mostly agree, except I liked most of the companions in RT at least.

>>3802106
if you're not going to obsessively build craft a lot of the allure of pathfinder is lost

I'm quite familiar with D&D 3.5, but not Pathfinder because my group fell apart before it was a thing but really I only have one question. How's Magus?

>>3802106
There's a timer on each chapter of the main quest but you have so much time you're never at risk of running out unless you fuck around an absurd amount.
Just do the story quests when they come up and then spend the rest of the time building your kingdom.

>>3802118
It's also an interesting case where you absolutely should tackle the main story parts as soon as they pop.

>>3802099
God that shit is so bad

>>3802106
Normal is gonna be challenging enough for a first ride.

>>3796376
which ones

>>3796168
Imagine it got remade with full-voice acted talking heads including Hedwig/Baroness, DAI style.
>Nyrissa giving the "it was because it wasn't the first time I dreamt of you" line
OMG, would even with the thorns

>>3802099
>>3802141
As awkward as it is, it's better than the minigame of KM. Wrath has way worse puzzles though.

>>3802702
Bark is rough, anon.

>>3802801
Nymphs are supposed to be peak beauty and sexo, so it will work one way or another.
If not now, then with the curse removed.

>>3802801
>Casts barkskin
Now neither of us will be virgins!

I made a snake sorceress and I will either conquer the dryad pussy or die trying.
Yes, when she invited me to the verdant chamber to fuck but tried to kill me instead I still came alone.

>>3803005
You better have a good alignment or I'm gonna have bad news for you

>>3803005
Its not really something you can do without a guide. You have to pick the most pathetic simp dialogue options.
Thats what I heard anyway, I'm not gonna romance that plant bitch

>>3803010
speaking of which are there any benefits to neutral alignment? I remember the very early mites vs kobolds where only neutral can broker a peace, but not much.

The worst thing the devs did was call it the “true ending” as opposed to the “secret ending”
>t. autism compelled me to replay and do it

>>3803016
not really, I picked stuff you would say if genuinely smitten and then chose to keep being hopelessly unable to stop loving her even if I know, and such options work. I'd say it's actually nice if you look at it from the role play pov.

Other things are hard, like knowing you have to pass the spot/arcana check in the cyclop dungeon. And that you should not have other romances, which you an get a hint from the host of the fey debate competition event if you win (obviously you gotta ask about your love problem, right).

>>3803017
nothing big
that and you can keep the kobolds from the troll fortress around, which actually gives you Tartuk as companion in the final dungeon
Being Lawful Good is better. You can respec to change your alignment for particular events I think.

>>3803005
>>3803016
Perhaps it is a good idea to check the guide after completing parts of the game just to make sure your choices were compatible, so that if you screwed up, you don't have to go back too much.

>>3803016
>Its not really something you can do without a guide. You have to pick the most pathetic simp dialogue options
>not really, I picked stuff you would say if genuinely smitten and then chose to keep being hopelessly unable to stop loving her even if I know, and such options work. I'd say it's actually nice if you look at it from the role play pov.
To the contrary I think there are actually points where you nympfucking simp instincts can actually betray you - you must not offer to give up your kingdom to her

>>3802111
Really strong, especially dex sword saint, but the base class is good on it’s own.

>>3803024
I think either Lawful is the best for the Kingdom part.

>>3803017
You'll always miss out on small things like some dialog options being locked depending on your alignment, but it's nothing to lose your mind over. Just play and enjoy the game. People always want to min-max everything and that just takes the fun out. Might as well just follow a guide then.

>>3803073
And eldritch scion can get bloodline traits which is fun flavor (can get stuff like wings)

Jesus Christ, I go back and they STILL haven't fixed the bug that randomly makes the game stuck in slowmo occasionally
How the fuck can you be this incompetent? How do people tolerate this?

>>3803073
>>3803117
I see, thank you. Now, I recall that the game favors light armor to some extent, but... would it be worth it to suffer through the early game to do a heavy armor magus? It's more my style and I just don't want to play a fucking cleric for the thousandth time just to get an armored gish but if it's unbearable...

>>3803126
Yeah, Magus is nice since you will get medium kinda quickly and heavy not too late.

You can get higher AC with robes and such tricks, but I gotta say I prefer the look of the full plate armors, Eldritch Scion with STR build sounds compelling. At least you can get more feats instead of investing into finese.

I'd go STR but also be an elf to be able to get Elven Curve Blade. Early on, there aren't very good ones, but for later parts, the very best weaon is ECB. Total killer.

I don't know how mindbroken you have to be to not quit during the last act. It's the very definition of a slog.

Just skip to WoTR.
Kingmaker was made by like 20 people. WoTR was made by 120. The difference between the quality of both games is astounding, Kingmaker is a goddamn waste of time at this point.

>>3802035
Both Pillars of Eternity have much better RTwP combat than Tyranny. In fact Tyranny uses a very much simplified version of PoE 1's system with way less features.

>>3803223
I disagree.

>>3802089
That's like saying Fallout 3 and New Vegas are the same game. You're a retard .

>>3803137
Doesn't Magus need one-handed weapons?

>>3803233
>That's like saying Fallout 3 and New Vegas are the same game
Fallout 3 and New Vegas are the same game.
>t. played both

>>3803281
It's reasonable to like NV and not FO3.
>t. felt meh about both

>>3803124
They can't, anon. Owlcat don't have the rights to the game and due to the publisher fucking them over or some shit.

>>3803223
Is WoTR really better
Does it have the time limit of KM

Kingmaker hate is a meme. I beat it after WotR and found that it does some things better. I guess the on-release issues marred its perception but it's a perfectly serviceable game as it is now.

>>3803439
>Kingmaker hate is a meme
It's not a thing at all, it's called preference.

>>3803234
Been a while since I tried but not.
You are right that if you want to use the weapon + spell use in offhand feature, you have to keep a free hand.
Other stuff works with 2H weapon fine, including the touch spell + attack feature.

>>3803534
>the touch spell + attack feature.
I mean, delivery of touch spells via main weapon attack (as opposed to the spell offhand attacks)

>>3803304
so they can't touch the game anymore?

>>3803439
>>3803447
You'd think running your own kingdom was a safer, bigger fantasy than managing crusades, but here we are.

>Main Theme
>The eche before the sound
>Bittersweet
>First world battle theme
>Dawn at the Narlmarches
>Peaceful Lands
>Hills of Glenebon
>Rule of Balance
>Season of Bloom
>Thousand Grains
>Bold dogs bark loudly
>Blade of your own choice
>False Destiny
>Exploring the Stolen Lands
Absolute God tier OST, up there with IWD. It really carries the game for me, definitely better than Wotr.

>>3803758
Forgot Capital under Attack

>>3803758
WotR has great OST too. It stands out a bit more, which may be a bd thing for some, but it's also a good thing.
I mean, MYTHIC POWER

>>3803758
it's mid

>mfw jumping through hoops for Troll Trouble bullshit

>>3795796 (OP)
After beating it twice, I'm done. It's too flat more often than not, even with traversal mods.

>>3804012
>its too flat
What does that even mean

>>3804006
if you know where the fort is you can beeline for it

>>3804013
Plenty of maps are identical. Most buttons on the overworld are tiny. It's a chore to beat the game. The first playthrough is OK, gets stale fast.

>>3803787
no, that's your wit

>>3804006
>play Chaotic baron
>make trolls your vassal
>Ekundindu chimps the fuck out and leaves
>have army of domesticated trolls for your military and percentage of niggers in the barony goes down to 0
The correct strategy.

>>3804028
I cannot fathom playing Chaotic. Do you just do the opposite of common sense?

>>3804068
read that as catholic. time to get off the internet for a while.

>>3804006
>>3804028
>mfw dwarf prisoner you can mercy kill or try to heal in the fortress
There are some great small moments in the game like that.

>better roleplaying (dialogues have choices for every combination of Lawful-Chaotic and Good-Evil instead of just one, your kingdom gradually evolves due to your choices while WotR hard locks you into a single specific alignment in the first hour of the game)
>better itemization (something that is rarely talked about, but WotR is infamous for having worthless exotic weapons all over the place and a pretty limited choice of gear overall while in KM it felt like there are more good drops for everyone, especially with the option to commission things from crafters)
>kingdom management >>>> crusade management even considering the time limits. Crusades just suck ass and are almost completely divorced from the core gameplay while Kingdom management involves your party members and gets you constant rewards while granting you a sense of growth
>better enemy and environment variety. 90% of WotR is fight demons in a wasteland or a dark city. In KM you face a much broader bestiary across a more varied landscape. HATEOT can be pretty bad but imo not as bad as endgame encounters in WotR. Just take blindfight and it will be ok.
>cool bossfights with a recurring motif that make you feel like you're moving on from killing a bandit lord to facing the fairy god
Kingmaker is Kino and completely equal to WotR with the Call of the Wild mod that makes most PF classes left out of it playable.

>>3804068
My goals are beyond your understanding.

>>3804090
Also Kingmaker has meaningful True Neutral only options.

>>3804097
Yeah, I covered that in the first point. Kingmaker has dialogues with options like

>[Yes]
>[No]
>[Chaotic Good]
>[True Neutral]
>[Lawful Evil]

While WotR is just

>Yes
>[Good] Better Yes
>[Evil] No!
>[Chaotic] Reddit sex penis

>Oh no, we are too late! These people have all been infected. They may look fine now but soon they will turn into monsters!
>This entire camp needs to be purged!
>How can you even consider that? There has got to be another way!
>DAMMIT KESTEN, I am your Baron and I order you to purge this camp!
Kino, love that little reference to Warcraft in Season of Bloom.
Double based if you know the cure but you just kill them all anyway.

>>3804090
Also KMs cast is better than that wotr.

>>3804112
I actually think they're more or less equal. Linzi has the most memorable role from either game hands down. Jaethal and Nok-nok are peak but the rest of KR cast weren't that memorable for me except maybe Harrim. On the WotR side Wenduag is probably the best ever CRPG romance for me, and I liked every dialogue by Daeran and Regill.

>>3804090
>>3804097
>>3804103
people who shit on kingmaker in the choices department probably never replayed some parts to see how differently they can play out. then again there are no louder vocal than those who actually FINISHED the game and saw the final stretch.

>>3804118
KM cast is a lot more archetypal. WotR went into special snowflakes territory.

>>3804079
it's also a trap unless you have tristan with you. in which case you get a huge buff that can carry you through the entire place if you time it correctly.

>>3804090
It's baffling to me, really. The cotw mod is made by fans and delivers a lot of the classes. At the same time owlcucks cry in their videos how much work classes and races are. Shit doesn't add up.

>>3804103
>>[Evil] No!
Either that or
>I hate you. Die!
For no obvious reason, like when talking to a cat.

>>3804103
Yes, KM is worse. Specific alignment choices are retarded instead of letting you craft your alignment from a composite of choices. Angel alone has two different shades, one Lawful oriented and one Good oriented and you can combine them as you see fit.

Guys I finished Kingmaker after multiple attempts over the past few years. Always quit around vordakai. Last act needed better pacing I would have enjoyed it. Onto wrath where I am playing a Sylvan sorcerer - hellknight Signifier lich

>>3804501
Wotr falls flat after act 3 and act 4 is as atrocious as it gets. Both games need teleport mods, how can devs fail so bad?

>>3804423
>Specific alignment choices are retarded instead of letting you craft your alignment from a composite of choices.
Because that's what I think about when I imagine Pathfinder. Composite morality.

>>3804503
Every owlcat game goes to shit at act 3-4

>>3804503
Yea I know the demon city sucks and everything after is rushed. Where else can I play a Lich though.

This game would be amazing if you could steer multiple parties at the same time instead of needing to only follow the MC. I get the kingdom advisor thing is supposed to offset this a bit but still.

>>3804627
Mythical class is awesome and their selection is nice, at least partially. Lots of unfinished business. I swear, owlkeks are as filthy as a company can be.
>>3804609
This will only get worse, they are now releasing four games and one so-called from the aaAs class.

>>3804513
>imagine Pathfinder
There's your issue.

>>3804706
Owlcat trying to make multiple games at once has to be the dumbest decision of all time.
They can't even put together one functional game at a time, let alone 4.

>>3804726
The point is to create jobs and launder money, not make good games.

>>3804731
Their games are not shovelware

>>3804735
Yeah, they are slavware.

>>3804739
Sovlware

>>3804726
>They can't even put together one functional game
It's ridiculous, really. They worked like 6 years total on wotr and still have plenty of bugs and a convoluted story that ends as abruptly as possible.

>>3804742
>S(h)ov(e)lware

>>3804749
Heh
>good one, actually

>>3804753
Not posting in memespeak all the time does wonders for your ability to make off the cuff jokes.

>>3804757
>memespeak
People do that in real life, too. It's already a topic for scientific research. People tend to use phrases for everything, a fast food language, fitting for a meme timeline.

>>3804762
Yes, the disparity within human intelligence is staggering. By all means, follow the herd, take comfort in consensus.

>>3804765
>By all means, follow the herd, take comfort in consensus
Apparently it's "hard coded", which I sincerely doubt. It's lack of courage above anything else. They know, they choose not to.

>>3804762
It's is short for "it is". You are doing it yourself too. It is human nature to make things faster and more efficient, as long as the message gets across. Yeah dumb people fuck it up sometimes, but that does not make the action of optimizing bad.

>>3804791
It's or it is obviously isn't what this is about. People using almost exclusively idioms is not only impairing language, but ultimately thinking as well. It got worse during the rise of social media. It will get much worse in the near future.
Just so we don't misunderstand each other. An abbreviation isn't bad per se, as long as the message gets along. More and more people use predefined language and don't form sentences, they just repeat idioms, similiar to parakeets.

>>3803281
I rest my case

>>3804841
fr omegalul

>>3804967
Y r u gae

>>3795796 (OP)
Wil increasing map movement speed fuck up progression by leaving me with too many days to skip?

>>3805143
you'll end up skipping days regardless. keep in mind km is balanced around game fast forwarding 14 days at a time.

>>3804771
I think it's capacity, that's the problem with scientific studies on the nature of humanity, there isn't one kind of nature in us, it's starting from a false premise about language. Some people tend more towards parroting and herd thought. It is sad when those with ability to overcome it get swept up in that behaviour through Pavlovian conditioning though.

>>3805149
Yes. It's a shame that whole GAME IS TIMED reputation scared away a lot of people. I'd say bigger "problem" are random spikes in difficulty, especially early on.

>>3795796 (OP)
>completed Season of Bloom
Let's get this DLC done with now. Did they ever do the "DLC references the campaign and vice versa" thing again?

>>3806510
are you the op? you're actually sticking with the game?

I saw the thread and figured, wow, I should do that too
Holy shit I forgot how jank and tedious this game was, this was a mistake

>>3806510
For Wrath there's Through the Ashes/Lord of Nothing, though the cross-referencing is minor by comparison; I think you only briefly meet some of the characters rather than them playing a relatively important role (for a time, anyway) like Varnhold and Maegar can. But I might be wrong there.

>>3806510
>varnhold's lot
just be aware this is a lot harder than you've experienced in the main campaign up to that point. mainly because your provided companions are absolute ASS, meaning you're expected to create three additional characters and understand group synergy. you'll also lose two characters towards the end so you'll only have four to work with.

>>3806853
If you mean the prebuilts it offers, sure, but you literally cannot fuck up a Wizard unless you tank their Int so Cephal is just fine (while he sticks around)
Even then I feel it's one of those things where people massively exaggerate the level of optimization required, or for some ungodly reason assume new players will blast Unfair in a system they're unfamiliar with

>tfw you finally get greater enduring spells

The prebuffing in this game is insane but atleast I can go nuts with it.

Man, my brand of autism is actively detrimental to this game. I get an idea in my head and then it crashes head-first into the mechanics. Mostly because I wanted to do Monster Tactician Inquisitor of Nethys, but the summoning eats up three feats by itself so the only reliable choice for the rest of it is big grug high strength heavy armor, and I don't wanna do that again. I already did it twice. But everything else (dex melee, archery, intimidation, and especially trying to double down on casting) takes up way too many feats to work, so it'll propely kick in maybe 3/4ths of the game in.
But I guess it might not matter, when the summoning will do most of the work...

>running through Blackwater with an army of Repurposed Augmented demons and shit

First time I've felt like a lich so far, repurpose is just amazing

>>3807110
People probably got PTSD in the last dungeon when you lose Varn and Cephal only to be stuck with prebuilts. You're fucked unless you have a pet or two to throw around as tanks.

>>3807336
Yeah, that's fair. Owlcat did people dirty by not making it clear none of the prebuilts have ANY special content, or... really anything to make them worthwhile.
Well that and having them be pretty bad, but considering what they've done with some of the companions in the main game... not a surprise.

From what I gathered reactivity is basically non-existent in Kingmaker outside of alignment, but I'll ask all the same... what are some fitting/interesting deity options from a roleplay standpoint?

>>3807562
For what it's worth my last playthrough was Cleric of Nethys purely because his whole philosophy (power and knowledge above all, regardless of use) and theming (heal with one hand, destroy with the other) actually justifies playing the sort of True Neutral who can veer between extremes as needed, but without the arbitrary bullshit or HAVING to adhere to balance. What I'm saying is it's the cop-out philosophy if you want it to be and I love it.
I was originally gonna do a Druid for my neutral run but while that fits thematically it also doesn't actually have much in the way of druid-themed choices outside of a handful of quests, so that was a fine compromise.

I forgot how fucking horseshit the swarms are before you get Jubilost or better area spells
Missed with too many of those alchemist fires? Fuck you, game over.

>>3807582
ironically, it's really only an issue doing the early quest for bokken. it takes so long to run into a single swarm after that.

>>3807593
technically not even, since the swarms are past the fangberries so you don't need to fight them
of course it means going back there later, and for that kind of loot it's not worth it, so it's a question of "do you care enough about a cure wand to suffer"
unless you play an Alchemist, then it's fucking nothing

>>3807595
>he didn't sneak past those enemies with linzi and steal shit

>>3807606
So much of the loot you find just gets sold for money to buy BP, though. You only really need to keep unique shit and maybe some Cold Iron weapons.

>>3807582
Honestly I'm always more annoyed by enemy casters just spamming Cause Fear every turn. Most of the time it doesn't even achieve anything beyond being fucking aggravating.

>>3807582
>>3808890
Well, it's all on-brand for Pathfinder encounter design. One of the official modules had you stuck in with a massive swarm of bugs that dealt stat damage just by existing, and if you lacked/ran out of area effects you couldn't do anything to it. Another had the very first encounter (at level 1 of course) be a bunch of fey shits that spammed Color Spray, and well, if everyone falls asleep that's just game over, they shank you.

>>3807593
>>3808890
I do find enemy behavior odd at times. Like how they'll barely if ever use charge, and practically no enemy priest/cleric will channel. So much so i was surprised when couple of them did.

I completely blanked out how dogshit Pathfinder gameplay is, holy shit
>Early game? Bro just roll high and don't roll low! Tactics? Who cares lol
>Late game? Bro just cast buffs and protections! Tactics? Who cares lol

>>3809602
skill issue

>>3809606
bot tier reply

>>3809607
bot equivalent is an apropos response
>midwit forgets he doesn't like an old ass game, cries online about it
who asked lol

>>3809608
I don't see you bitching about the rest of the posts here that do the exact same thing, pull your head out of your ass and kill yourself

>>3802715
>Wrath has way worse puzzles though.
This convinced me that the designers at Owlcat are aggressively retarded more than all the shitty, zero-effort encounter designs combined.
>most people vocally hated the puzzles in Kingmaker
>"I know what'll make them happy, we'll dedicate several areas and one character's entire plotline to puzzles!"

>>3809777
People are retarded, though. It tracks they don't want elements they can't brute force. There's a reason MOST dislike puzzles be they good or bad.

>>3807336
dugath is a cool dude

>>3809791
The puzzles are bad.

>>3809793
NUMERIA STRONK

Also, I like the fact taking Amiri with you has benefits for once.

>>3809777
The games both would be so much better in that aspect if they'd let you put notes on the overworld.

>>3795796 (OP)
>mfw entirety of Vordakai's Tomb
Is this the goddamn shit that awaits me from now on?

>>3810722
oh my dear anon. you've merely poked the shit.

>>3810722
If Vordakai's Tomb already pisses you off, the House at the End of Time is going to drive you up the fucking walls.

>feel like I should finally try KM and WOTR afterwards
>read this thread
>dont feel like playing it anymore

thanks guys!

>>3810767
they're good games

>>3810767
they're bad games

>>3810767
they're mediocre games

>>3810722
sheer number of enemies aside vt is the first real bump in the road that can fuck you over with shit like negative levels. I guarantee your average player is not carrying diamond dust and still thinks lesser restore will fix shit forever. it's a rough wake up call.

>>3810767
>reading threads about games you haven't played
dumb guy

>>3810847
>I guarantee your average player is not carrying diamond dust
I wonder how many realized some spells have material components to cast when it was too late.

>>3810847
Anon, the average player doesn't make it that far into the game to begin with, they get bored and move onto something else in their backlog. That's gaming in the Steam age.

>>3810722
No, after VT you are just going to stomp everything. Its when you start getting good equipment and stronger abilities/spells.

I think the problem I have is that the game isn't difficult as much as it is tedious. d20 systems in general are half about bad roll management - after all if you keep missing and your enemy keeps hitting you just get fucked, it doesn't matter how big brain your tactics are. Add to that how many design elements are just stalling. Enemies spamming control spells (Cause Fear early, Hold later, or Thunder Call from those kobolds for stun) and occasionally summons just to flood the place and body-block you, traps usually doing little but keeping you in place (special shout-out to Web for lingering out of combat for several minutes forcing you to wait it out), abundance of tripping enemies, equal abundance of enemies that inflict poison, swarms of chaff that die in one-two hits and exist only to do some annoying shit alternating with swarms of chaff with overly high defenses just to buy spellcasters time to do their thing. Add to that difficulty mostly just bloating enemy AC and saves so YOUR tricks don't work as well. It feels like everything is meant just to make you waste your time. I can count interesting encounters on one hand, as most of it amounts to the same three things over and over, and half of what I mentioned becomes entirely irrelevant when you have hard-counters for it (in the form of spells, each and every time) which then turns it into nothing at all, just a meaningless speedbump.

>>3811289
That's why 90% of the "strategy" in both Pathfinder games, especially on the higher difficulties, comes down to obsessive prebuffing.

Owlcat IS capable of designing interesting encounters on occasion, but they're so few and far between that they almost don't matter and almost every fight is either another bunch of trash mobs or another bland tank&spank boss that's immune to everything.

Wrath is funny to me because the INSTANT you get that ability that makes your buffs last 24 hours you literally cannot lose. The worst that might happen is a dispel but then you just reapply them and keep winning.

>>3811301
Add to that if you're playing turn-based exclusively you'll want to blow your brains out.

>>3811320
Only if you have ADHD.

>>3795869
What always gets me is the load times. The game starts out just fine, but as the save bloats the load times get longer and longer and I just lose motivation to keep going. Even on a modern SSD faster than anything available when the game came out the constant load screens always get to me and I lose interest.

Also a load screen between you and kingdom/settlement management was retarded, that could have been something you do in a menu in like your inventory, you shouldn't need a load screen for that.

>>3811320
Turn-based is nice for boss battles but yeah most of the game is better if you're playing in real-time and using cheat engine to speed the game up while chewing through the endless trash mobs.

>>3811301
That's just the ruleset. You want to stack odds in your favor and that's why spells/items exist. If it was the other way around people would ask why is all that pointless shit in the game.

>>3811377
>That's just the ruleset.
No, that's just Owlcat doubling the stats of every monster compared to the official rules, giving every single boss a fat stack of free buffs and immunities at the start of the battle, and throwing in 30 random trash mob encounters between every fight that actually matters. Unless you're playing on babby mode you need to prebuff just to keep up.

I unironically love Kingdom management. I wish there are some mods to add more features and expand management fuhrer.

>>3811382
I'm surprised there's no major balancing mod that fixes that.

We need Rebalance mod for KM to rework all systems into something more fun, balanced and lore friendly. AI shit would be usefull when in 2-3 years they achieve top coding ability to decode owltrash's shitty unity code and rework it

>>3811382
>>3811385
Just resetting everything to purist tabletop mode would make the game piss-easy, but a mod that tones down some of the retarded abilities enemies get and reduce the amount of immunities on bosses would be nice.

>>3811385
>>3811386
>>3811394
it won't happen because core audience are autists who love testing out character builds against unfair situations

>>3811402
The issue is that the design actually limits character building. For example how are you going to do a poison build if everything that matters is immune to poison? That's not a Pathfinder-specific issue but it does get worse because of how Owlcat designs bosses and even lategame trash mobs to be immune to everything except straight damage.

I was hoping playing on modified Core that gets rid of bullshit bloat would help, and it kind of does, but you still have to deal with twenty goddamn time-waster random encounters every time you go somewhere. Well, maybe eighteen time-waster encounters, and two "what the fuck did you mean by this" where it shits out a CR 17 enemy (or several) against a party of level 5s as a joke and forces you to reload, because you're in a different encounter zone for five seconds.

>>3811343
Any game using a universal engine will be like this.

>>3811383
I like it as well. Why is it so hated?

>>3811522
Becuase its underbaked. You could be playing another better kingdom/city builder if thats what you want, and it really doesnt marry it into the CRPG in enough ways to justify its existence.

>>3811382
I think you got it the wrong way around. They adopted the tabletop system closely so players end up with all the buff options. But because they have all these buff options, Owlcat has to adjust all enemies to still be difficult to their autistic playerbase that will absolutely abuse the systems they offer.

>>3811678
So the system itself sucks and neither the playerbase or Owlcat is at fault for anything?

>>3811680
yes