Thread 3796223

Why does Owlcat go from balls-in-a-vice and quickload-city difficulty of Pathfinder's Unfair to this, where I could go in with half of the team and still win 99% of encounters with ease?

Also, Yrliet best girl

pathfinder unfair is easy as pie tho

>make it so you die to RNG 90% of the time in the tutorial, rest of the game doesn't matter
>mmm yes now this game is balanced for message board slavs

>>3796223 (OP)
>go in with half of the team
kek pathetic iconokeks

>>3796233
>>3796233

>>3796237
>he doesnt like reloading 37 times in the tutorial corridor in Kingmaker until stars align his two midget companions hit everything and enemies miss everything 3 times in a row
Just say u dont like rpgs

>>3796223 (OP)
Because the "difficulty" in Pathfinder comes from poor design, same as Rogue Trader, just different forms of it.

Pathfinder has massive stat bloat, tons of poorly balanced skills so it's easy to fuck up builds, tons of resource drains and a million other things that can fuck you over. Which makes Pathfinder extremely tedious to play unless you're autistic.

>>3796223 (OP)
Yrliet is worse than even Jae

>>3796258
T-take that back this second, stupid monkeigh

>>3796233
Yes but until you reach level 3 or so you have to do truly intellectual crossbow cheese, so it's hard or something.

>>3796233
No it isn't chud

>>3796248
He's right, it's only hard if you have no idea what you're doing, but if you're playing unfair then you SHOULD know what you're doing
Unfair is only difficult early game, once you finish act 1, it gets much, much easier, the same is true for Rogue Trader

>>3796458
Not my impression at all.
Act 1 is quite easy now with all the extra XP, but Act 2 has a huge power spike once you leave Footfall

>>3796223 (OP)
Another Owlcat shill thread.
For how much their dogshit games get spammed you'd think it has 100k active player or something, its the same retards over and over isn't it?

>>3796508
Normally I'd tell you to take your fucking meds and that not every thread made about a game you dislike is shilling, but the amount of threads about these games that keep popping up way before the last dies, always with a stupid question or obvious bait, sometimes created within an hour of each other... it kind of jogs the ol noggin, especially with them desperately trying to get hype for the DH game.
Could still just be absolute retards though. It's like a variation on Hanlon's razor after all.

>>3796508
>100k active player

This steam active player brainrot, especially for SP games, is the most retarded trend amongst """gamers""" (read: subhuman retards) today.

>>3796223 (OP)
Try these simple tricks if you find unfair too easy:

>Don't play a psyker
>Don't bring Cassia

>>3796886
I did neither and it was still easy
Any ability that breaks action economy is retarded, what the fuck were they thinking with the Officer

>>3796659
I’ve never heard anyone care about it outside of zoomers on 4chins, but I’m old.

>>3796886
>>Don't play a psyker
Are psykers even that good in this game? I only used Idira (she was dogshit) and Heinrix (he was ok as pyro, but still far behind Argenta and Cassia in terms of damage)

>>3797091
They can be.
But they probably have the highest range of broken-useless to broken-good possible

>>3797097
How do I make them good (ie. better than Argenta)

I want to blow shit up as space wizard

Man, the choice between Priest and Sanctic Psyker is straight up unbearable

On a totally different note, what the fuck is up with the game seemingly trying to convince me really hard to like Jae, did someone forget to slap a writer up the head for getting ahead of himself?

>>3797091
>>3797107
Pyromancy is really strong.
Take skills that reduce fire damage you take, skills that buff your damage while on fire, set yourself on fire and then run in to hit shit and explode things.

>>3797132
She's supposed to be the more down to earth and friendly of the women.
The alternatives
>psycho psyker one step away from chaos
>autistic gun nut battle nun
>sheltered spoiled "princess" that can't do anything herself
>space monk that thinks humans are trash
>psycho cultist that only knows how to kill

>>3797152
Thats what i was already doing on Heinrix

And it takes too many turns to set up compared to ie. just blasting shit with Heavy Bolter, like mentioned

>>3797158
I mean I get that, I just keep getting a weird feeling that the writer really wants me to like her that is absent in all other interactions. Maybe it's just me misreading the tone or something.

>>3796659
I agree that Jason Schreier is a
>subhuman retard

>>3797170
I think all the companion characters are kind of written that way and it's a good thing. You might just notice it with her more because she's supposed to be this exotic space pirate type with a funny accent and foreign nicknames for people so she stands out but otherwise I don't think she's particularly singled out.
My honest assessment is that RT has the most enjoyable cast of companion characters in any RPG ever.
The only one I don't like is Idira and that's just because I think they should have leaned even heavier into her Jamaican voodoo gimmick. Her going nuts in act 1 and summoning a demon was great and I wish there was more of that. Can corrupt her in that direction on a heretic run or something? I've not done one yet so I don't know.

>>3796223 (OP)
give me creation stats for a noble or commissar and tell me which one to play.

i like the idea of the noble but the portrait is sort of bland and hes too brown.

commissar:
>imperial world with bonus in willpower and a focus on melee? fighting

noble:
>hive world noble who just hangs in the back and takes pot shots with a pistol

Is Heretic route as stupid as I imagine it to be? It's hard to conceive of a situation where it's not just a total tonal and logical flop knowing Owlcat writing, with all the companions in full "I do not see it" mode ignoring even the most comically over the top shit until an arbitrary point in the gam where suddenly half of them have a melty and leave/try to kill you.

>>3797326
Hold the fuck up. Bland I'll give you, but too BROWN? The noble portrait. This one. The guy that's barely fucking tanned.

>>3797343
too much of a swarthy look anon. he looks like a fucking italian. simple as.

plus there isnt a single color choice that actually matches the portrait for some fucking reason

>>3797326
hows this?

>>3797343
If you didn't pick the fat bastard you didn't do it right

wait the new space cop is a nigger too? why does owlcuck keep pushing niggers and females? arent they supposed to be evil russians or something?

>>3797380
where can you mess around with the companion skin color and portrait?

Wait a minute I thought we were doing the racism ironically

>>3797385
>the dog is still black
Disgusting.

>>3796223 (OP)
Quickload city is a sign of one of two things.
1: A bad player
2: Bad difficulty design

Usually, I find that it's 2. These things should be tested by only saving at "traditional" save locations like inns or churches.

>>3797091
>Are psykers even that good in this game?
Try pyromancer death dancer

>>3797380
>why does owlcuck keep pushing niggers and females?
>females
So you're a fag and want male on male romances? Part of Owlcats audience wants romances.

>>3797380
>>3797385
>being this mentally immature and thin skinned

I smell a burger.

>>3797380
>game had exactly 1 black companion
>the rest were white, including the space marine and aliens
>now they add 1 more black companion
>anon loses their mind

>>3797538
Idira, Jae and Yrliet were not white (x*nos obviously cant be white)

Now they yet added another one

:/

>>3796223 (OP)
I don't know. WotR Unfair was easy for me, I have completed Last Azlanti 8 times already.

>>3797340
Yeah, Heretic path is a joke in this game.

>>3797547
Is it at least a funny joke? Like, am I gonna get a chuckle at it being funny tryhard edge if I entirely discard the expectation of sense and logical outcomes and commit to being a living cartoon, or is it just stupid?

>>3797541
>there are non-whites and aliens in this galactic space RPG?????? this is an outrage!!!!!!!!

>>3797553
Thats what im fucking saying

We need to purge all of them, brothers. Emperor protects

>>3797380
No, they're libtard russians

>>3797565
Except the imperium has no problem with blacks, ogryns, ratlings, navigators or anything like that. Only burgers do.
If they're faithfully serving the imperium they're doing the will of the Emperor. If you try an undermine that, you're a heretic that should be purged for wanting to strike down servants of the Emperor.

>>3797565
>We need to purge all of them, brothers. Emperor protects
Salamanders is an entire chapter where every single marine is black and have been since the beginning.

>>3797608
That's nonsense. Your average imperial has a problem with some random faggot two doors away because his allotment of corpse assloaf contains 0.12% more colon and so he obviously is in cahoots with evil spirits and an evil witch to get that. You have bloodsports with nobles going on safaris hunting proles, you have self appointed preachers burning randoms for perceived mutations and abhumans are *at best* tolerated and culled with strict population control. How tolerated wholly depends on which of the fuckzillion worlds in the Imperium we're talking about.

>>3797627
The point being that thinking humanity in 40k has a problem with black people is beyond retarded. Like the imperium wanting to purge blacks is downright delusional.

>>3797651
Of course it is. As is pushing real world politics and agendas of any description on a fantasy world where they just don't make a lick of sense. Hell, ask a romanian sewer dwelling glue sniffing gypsy what he thinks of wage gap or gender studies and he'll look at you puzzled while gnawing on his foot.

>>3797656
How is pushing real world politics by making a character black? You get triggered by any and all blacks. out of 12 companions 2 are black, where the rest are 4 whites, Jae isn't clear, 2 paled skinned aliens, 1 white super human and 1 pale skinned mutant.
This is not counting the 3 'hidden' companions which are all white.

Anyone getting riled up about this has mental problems and should seek help.

>>3797651
>>3797624
>>3797608
>>3797666
Nice try Tzeentch

>>3797668
>40k fag
>doesn't even know salamanders are all black skinned and red eyed

>>3797666
Did I say this was? Where? GW pushing a stronk female cadian colonel into everything now-a-days is. As is looking at five ultrasmurfs and each is of different race and color despite being recruited from same stock on same worlds and genetically modified to resemble girlyman. But having a black character in WH ain't nothing new or unreasonable on its own.
Personally I don't like or dislike glowiedarkie for being either, I dislike him because he's written as a shitty mary sue with a character as firm as overcooked pasta.

>>3797670
Your black wicked words will not work here, grace of the golden throne protects us

To be honest you faggots should be happy there are wypipo at all in these futuristic settings, if it was "realistic" everyone should be sub-saharan, east asian or subcontinental.

>>3797676
Just like you then? Now that's grimdark.

>>3797674
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Salamanders

>>3797676
Kek this reminds me of that one story about 2d artist working on Numenera (billion years in the future or something, everyone is uniformly mongrel brown) who kept getting feedback to put in more african features over and over into the faces since they look too white still, and he eventually started halfassing everything out of frustration. And thats how we ended up with those abominable portraits in new Torment game

>>3797679
>displayed the physical traits of onyx-black skin and red eyes, an irreversible reaction to the unique radiation of Nocturne
Theyre like drows

Caucasian with different skin color. Not actual subsaharan niggers.

>>3797674
fo shizzle my nizzle
>grabs dick

>>3797691
I like how you disregarded the genetics part. The radiation makes it darker than it already is.
Regardless, they are indeed black skinned.

You comparing the blacks from countless worlds in the 40k verse to african black is pretty funny too, because all those other worlds don't have africa and have evolved differently.

Even then you made it clear this is all about your racist hate of black people, which is frankly just juvenile and burger like.

>>3796223 (OP)
>>3796233
>be minmaxing autist that looks up the most broken builds on GameFAQs
>look up all the cheesetactics
>WOW THIS GAME IS TOO EASY

every time

>>3797695
>because all those other worlds don't have africa and have evolved differently.
None of the planets humanity inhabits in 40k (except for Terra) have had a human population living on them long enough for any real evolution to take place. At best, you might have mixed mutt populations, or gene-modified humans, but you definitely aren't going to find a world on which an originally non-black human population evolved into a black one.

>>3797764
You've literally never so much as read a wikipedia article on 40k have you? The first human galactic civilization happened in the 15th millennium which means by the time 40k comes along it's been 25,000 years which is about how long ago Eurasians first migrated into the North America - the New-World human races "evolved" (if that's even the right term for it) in that length of time) Homo Sapiens entered Europe about 50,000 years ago so it's been about half the time it took modern white people to develop.
Add to that gene modification, warp mutation and the sheer randomness of natural gene expression over time and there 100% can be new diversifications of human racial types.

>>3797771
>>3797695
>>3797679
>>3797676
>halfbreed browns and blacks trying so hard to find any even the most far-fetched excuse possible why they should be in 40k

>>3797764
> None of the planets humanity inhabits in 40k (except for Terra) have had a human population living on them long enough for any real evolution to take place.
Squats
Ogryns
Ratlings
Etc

>>3797764
Not anymore lol. Based Russ.

>>3797783
>why they should be in 40k

I've got bad news for you, they already are. Better hide under your bed before they get you.

>>3797771
>Add to that gene modification, warp mutation and the sheer randomness of natural gene expression over time and there 100% can be new diversifications of human racial types.
This is exactly what I said too, but IMHO that does not count as evolution, since that is skipping quite a bit of steps in what this process normally requires.
>>3797786
Again, these are all confirmed as gene- and/or warp modifications from DAoT times already, so no *natural* evolution.

>one burger retard is still going on about how he doesn't think it's ok to have black people in 40k

Half of the people on this board should unironically be locked up and get help.

>>3797810
>Again, these are all confirmed as gene- and/or warp modifications from DAoT times already, so no *natural* evolution.
No, the squats were squat due to evolving on high-gravity mining worlds. The old lore for ogryns was something similar.

>>3796223 (OP)
Play on max sliders.

Is this game playable now?

>>3797859
Define playable.

>>3797859
>no bugs
Never
>no critical bugs that hinder flags/events or force you to use toybox to trigger scenes
Was already, fixed most such issies Lex introduced
>Most abilities working as intended
Yes, but you still get some retarded shit like dual wielding bug coming back, Solomorne gettin greplaced with his dog in the voidship status screens etc

>>3797859
>Is this game playable now?
Yes, I say this as someone very sensitive to bugs and broken stuff like quests.

Can't speak for the latest DLC though, haven't played that yet.

>>3797859
Playing it currently, i havent encountered any serious bugs in 105 hours so far

Sometimes animations bug out, ie. character is spazzing out for a second when hes supposed to be sitting and stuff like that, but overall its unusually bug-free for an Owlcat game

>>3797859
I'd give it six months at least if you're not comfortable using toybox to fix broken shit. Dual weapon combat and the new pets and shields are spastic and work as intended only some of the time. Zone transitions and items that should spawn - often don't leaving you bricked even if you know what you should do. Some of the new quest and ending flags are just not triggering correctly etc.
They are doing hotfixes almost weekly so I'll give them that much.

I'm impressed by how they managed to somehow make an "alignment" system that feels even more restrictive than fucking D&D or Star Wars games, by virtue of making EVERY alignment feel all over the place and then still expecting you to pick every single aligned option if you want the benefits.
Slightly less of a problem with Dogmatic since, well, that's what it is (though it still has some weird shit), but Heretical is seven different flavors of schizo and Iconoclast isn't much better, covering "muh people", "muh real-world ethics" and "muh contrarianism" all at once. If you wanna be sensible and use it for actual roleplay to determine what KIND of heretic or iconoclast you are, you're just gonna be fucking yourself and not reach the tiers required for late-game special options.

>>3799027
Alignment systems are always shit and retarded.
This is why reputation systems are better.

>>3799028
Well, depends on what variant of a reputation system it is, plenty of time devs are retarded and just make it an alignment system by a different name where it still flubs the narrative-mechanical interaction by making you hit point thresholds. But overall yeah, I agree.
But you know, what's doubly baffling is that RT has something resembling a proper rep system anyway, since SOME of your choices are used instead of your 'alignment' (like people getting some ideas in their heads if you just walk through fire shouting about the Emperor in the prologue), but rather than build on that they just take the lazy option for dialogue and have options locked away behind your level of dedication to one of 'em anyway.

>>3799028
JE had a pretty good one. Nuanced beyond pure good or evil and presented as a philosophy that not only suited the game but made you want to engage in it with concrete rewards. And actually impacted the narrative and the ending in a reasonable way it built up to.

the balance is all over the place, and the way they fixed it is by letting you save & adjust difficulty during combat.
this filtered me permanently.
games lose all integrity when they allow this.
why wouldnt I save scum? why wouldnt i temporarily change difficulty to get through an OP enemy?

i RAELLY think this game is overrated as shit and not that good.

>>3799365
The game is piss easy and if you reload or lower, you suck ass

>>3799379
oh no, whatever will I do, being bad at a videogame
get real, kid, nobody cares

>>3799358
I can't tell if you're joking or not
I mean the CONCEPT of Open Palm and Closed Fist is neat, and when they bother to stick to it it's neat, but 99% of the time it shits the bed and just goes back to 'don't be a dick' and 'be a total dick'. You almost never see the upsides of Closed Fist (encouraging independence, actually stepping in when the odds are impossible, giving people the means to protect themselves) or the negatives of Open Palm (fostering dependence, getting involved when it's not wanted, forcing your views on others)
And you KNOW it's fucked when the most straightforwardly Closed Fist option (telling a girl to kill a slaver herself if she wants to be free) gives you the Open Palm technique scroll meaning you can never get the fighting style

>>3799365
Idk, because maybe youre not a brownoid that cant take on a challenge?

What kind of retard quitter mindset is this

At this point might as well set it to journo mode and just speedrun, since you didnt beat the game either way

Also, like mentioned in OP, Rogue Trader is not difficult. You should try Pathfinder on Core or above and let us know how it went if you have to cheat your way through RT lol

>>3799473
>the CONCEPT of Open Palm and Closed Fist is neat, and when they bother to stick to it it's neat
I'm not and pretty much this without any delusions it was perfect.

>>3799615
>I'm not and pretty much this without any delusions it was perfect.
What the fuck am I reading?

>>3799616
Words.

>>3799615
A "perfect" concept doesn't matter when the execution is botched most of the time.

>>3799642
Stop bullying Fulgrim

>>3799642
>if it's not perfect i don't get to enjoy it
>if i can't enjoy it no one else can either
Depressing way to look at things brother.

>>3799659
I said neither of those things, but if that's how you choose to interpret and present my words there's really no point in even trying to continue
ur a faget lol

>>3799855
Your asshole is really itching for that engagement huh? Sorry anon, no homo. Hope things get better for you.

Pathfinder was difficult because they were bad at designing a system, so they just use the base pathfinder rules and made absurd encounter decisions.
Rogue Trader was easy because they were bad at designing a system, but decided to build one basically from the ground up.

>>3800045
>Rogue Trader was easy because they were bad at designing a system
No shit, they didn't get how the d100 system works at all. they just applied pathfinder logic to it and the result speaks for itself.

>>3800679
I suspect it's because DH/RT's d100 system is pretty grounded in its own way. There's clear lines for what a human is capable of outside of like DH ascension, and difficulty is largely decided by the GM putting difficulty modifiers on actions.
They likely wanted a constant escalation of numbers similar to DnD progression, so it just sort of apes the appearance of the 40k rpgs and goes out of its way to look as complex as possible with that obnoxious wheel graph and hiding a shit ton of minor synergy bonuses under non-intuitive names. In practice if you just pick everything that ties into the two stats that matter for you, you'll end up killing everything easily, but there's this illusion of having put together a "build" to do it. I really dislike it
I was also hoping they would never touch Dark Heresy because of it, but oh well

>>3799365
Having an "easy" or "hard" setting is one thing, but I've come to really hate difficulty settings with all that adjustable stuff. What makes something a game to me is that they set a challenge and you try to beat it. When everything is up in the air it just destroys the mood. It's not really a shared experience with other people who played it in a major way because of those

>>3796258
Nah.

She's bad, but not Jae-bad.

>>3800762
> Having an "easy" or "hard" setting is one thing, but I've come to really hate difficulty settings with all that adjustable stuff. What makes something a game to me is that they set a challenge and you try to beat it. When everything is up in the air it just destroys the mood. It's not really a shared experience with other people who played it in a major way because of those
I can see your perspective and why you feel that way. However imo, the problem is that most devs are lazy and bad at difficulty settings, and usually just resort to stat bloat/multiplying enemy HP and damage and calling it a day. I haven’t played RT (waiting for it to be “done”) but I did play both pathfinders and I was annoyed at how many hoops you had to jump through to approximate the actual tabletop stats. Normal was too easy, hard was close but not quite right, and unfair was for bloatmaxx munchkin cheese builds, which I don’t enjoy. You could fuck with all the levers to kinda get what you wanted but it was opaque and clunky and not completely satisfying, because they didn’t have a proper “normal” as the intended baseline.

Personally what I really like for difficulty settings are better enemy AI, more enemies, giving enemies additional abilities/items/equipment/spells or whatever, coupled with “normal” stats and hp and damage, so that the balance doesn’t go completely out the window. I thought BG3 was a shit game overall but I will give them credit, I really liked their configurable difficulty settings that they eventually added after post-release patching.

>>3800835
Now this I'm curious about, how do you figure?

>>3800914
Nothing special really.

Yrliet is annoying with her crystal stick up her ass and bawwing, but Jae is just a turbocringe lolsorandumb (but because le tragicsad) plebbit concentrate. Where Yrilet is annoying (though at least slightly redeemed by culture clash), Jae is insufferable. I'm not using plebbit as a buzzword, but as an accurate descriptor of how she's a fundamental quintessential fake cardboard fraud in every element of her character, but the writer thinks that a cardboard fraud is actually based if it's a Freudian defense mechanism: "it's ok and even cool to replace your personality with narcissistic pretense antics if your daddy did not love you enough" . That's essential NPC thought process, and as such utterly insufferable.

>Jae
I just think it's funny how hard she baits the airlock if for some insane reason you romance her.

>>3800957
Yrliet is supposed to feel alien because she literally is.As a race, culture, as a society, things they have to be extremely wary of (especially chaos, emotions, etc) and so on. She is also an outcast, but wants to help and reconnect with her people.
She's a far better character than say Argenta or Cassia.

Abelard, Pasqal, Heinrix and Kibellah are the only well written companions in the game.

>>3800962
>Yrliet is supposed to feel alien because she literally is.
Yeah, and that part of her is good. The bad part is the volume of her sad whine. I emphasize - not the part where she's deeply upset and distraught, but just how much she needs to arrogantly whine about it. I see a good concept in her, but poor execution where the game tries too hard to bend us into feeling sorry for her.

>Abelard, Pasqal, Heinrix and Kibellah are the only well written companions in the game.
Hard agree. Heinrix is actually deeply surprising here, in that he has the same (insane) concentration of fujovibes as Marazhai, but they somehow managed not to make it disgusting. I was legitimately caught off guard by his writing being tolerable and even interesting.

>>3800962
>Argenta or Cassia
I was, and still am, deeply confused by how many people seem to love those two. I guess it has to do with how easy they are to build into walking ezmode, but it can't entirely account for ALL the gushing. But man, the former is as one-dimensional as they come (as expected of Sororitas though), and the latter's stupid little "princess out of her element" schtick got old real quick.
Like I don't want to blame waifufags for it but...

Cassia and Aerushalae are the most unsubtle waifubait in the history of RPGs. They're like those parodies of dating sims/VNs where an anime girl with gigantic eyes pops out and comes at you with "kawaii uguu senpai let's doki doki~" with the grace of a sledgehammer. Can't really blame Owlcat for it though since apparently it works for a certain crowd, but I wanted to roll my eyes so often with the writing of these two.

Curiously I don't remember this from Kingmaker, yeah there's Octavia whose personality is "she's sexy and everyone wants to fuck her" but I don't recall feeling like the entire writing team is breathing down my neck to romance her. But maybe that's just because I didn't use her much.

>>3800991
>He's still seething

Cassia has one of the best questlines and character development in the game (not like she has much competition) if you dislike her, chances are, you just dislike her personality (which is just your opinion, and a shitty one I might add)
>>3800982
>But man, the former is as one-dimensional as they come (as expected of Sororitas though)
So is Abelard, yet people here suck his dick nonstop.
>latter's stupid little "princess out of her element" schtick got old real quick
Literally everyone has their own schtick they spam constantly through the entire game, again, it just bothers you when Cassia does it specifically

>>3801021
>(not like she has much competition)
Pasqal is the best. By Far.
Cassia competes for 2nd place

>>3801021
>Cassia has one of the best questlines and character development in the game
Not even remotely. Her romance is terrible, shallow and boring. Her development is going from not a generic spoiled princess being able to think and speak for herself to a generic spoiled princess being able to think and speak for herself a bit, if you steer her that way.

Kibellah is a direct parallel upgrade which is not only a more complicated character, with more interesting interactions, but directly ties into the Bloodspun Web which has far more impact on your game and experience, while also being far more interesting than anything Cassia's house did.

Heinrix has better and more subtle development, while being a vastly superiorly written character. Pasqal's questline and character does several laps around Cassia.

Argenta, Cassia, Ulfar and Jae are the worst written companions in the game. Followed by Idira, Yrliet and Marazhai.

>>3801033
>No yrliet for worst
Yeah, we dealing with a retard here

>>3801037
You're going for likeability, which is not surprising since you probably like Cassia because she's all starry eyed for your protag and completely subservient to you.

Is this guy really seething at Cassia for being waifu bait but praising Kibellah? kek

>>3801043
>hi i'm anon and i'm illiterate and use logical fallacies instead of arguments, i think i'm very smart

>>3801042
>she's all starry eyed for your protag and completely subservient to you
Uh, Kibblesbro, that's literally Kibellah

I think I prefer it from RT's main themes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF_Bz_1xa00

>>3801021
Man you really took that personally huh

>>3801059
I think it's too messy.

>>3801021
>Literally everyone has their own schtick they spam constantly through the entire game, again, it just bothers you when Cassia does it specifically
That's because it has nothing to do with having a gimmick, and everything to do with the gimmick being shit and annoying. (Yes, subjectively. Take your head out of your ass, everyone is just stating opinions here, why are you trying to use that as some sort of gotcha? Are you retarded?)
And I wrote nothing about Abelard so him being Mr. Yes-Lord-Captain-As-You-Say-Lord-Captain is entirely irrelevant to my distaste for Argenta being Sororitas.txt

>>3800982
>I was, and still am, deeply confused by how many people seem to love those two.
Even if they are flat, there's nothing offensive about them.

>>3800991
>Cassia and Aerushalae are the most unsubtle waifubait in the history of RPGs.
Yes. And?

>>3801235
>Yes. And?
I don't enjoy them and I think they bring the overall quality of the writing of their game down.

>>3801254
>I don't enjoy them
Understandable.

>I think they bring the overall quality of the writing of their game down.
Not really, simply due to how utterly optional they are. Nothing keeps you from going
>- A Death Cult? On MY spaceship? Eeeeww!
and that's it with Cassia for you.

I would also argue that a flat, blatant and obvious secondary character is not the same as a poorly written character. Diomedes son of Tydeus and John Falstaff are flat and blatant characters, but I doubt they bring the writing of their respectful works down. Garrus is really flat, and yet the entire ME fandom can't stop dickriding him.

>>3801254
>I don't enjoy them
Understandable.

>I think they bring the overall quality of the writing of their game down.
Not really, simply due to how utterly optional they are. Nothing keeps you from going
>- A navigator mutant? On MY spaceship? Eeeeww!
and that's it with Cassia for you.

I would also argue that a flat, blatant and obvious secondary character is not the same as a poorly written character. Diomedes son of Tydeus and Sir John Falstaff are flat and blatant characters, but I doubt they bring the writing of their respectful works down. Garrus is really flat, and yet the entire ME fandom can't stop dickriding him. A simple and straightforward character can be immensely enjoyable when he's in the right place of the story doing the right things.

>>3801260
>Garrus is really flat, and yet the entire ME fandom can't stop dickriding him. A simple and straightforward character can be immensely enjoyable when he's in the right place of the story doing the right things
The same is true for Abelard, but they're not cute girls that appeal to men (or to this autist's specific fetish, because he has no problem with Kibellah of all people) that's why they're not a problem

>>3801269
Whomst are you talking to? I don't have the DLC and I literally don't know what Kibellah is like. In my vanilla playthrough I romanced Yrliet (I'm not the biggest fan of her writing either, but Jae and Cassia are worse by far and I'd rather have some cool xenos lore than their nonsense).
Abelard is one-dimensional but he is relatable to men due to his sense of duty. Cassia is written like a coddled fainting hussy from a victorian era penny dreadful novel.
It's true that I can kick her off, but let's be real, the game goes out of its way to make you feel like an asshole who also misses content for it. You are not /supposed/ to discard them, you have to solve their problems.

>>3801294
>Cassia is written like a coddled fainting hussy from a victorian era penny dreadful novel.
Yes. And?

>>3801299
It makes you coom and in turn makes you think she's a good character with amazing character development and superb quests.

>>3801303
>It makes you coom
Yes.

>makes you think she's a good character with amazing character development and superb quests
Nah. It makes me think she's alright and serves her purpose and that's it.

On a completely different note, Bladedancer is pretty great though broken as fuck but I mean that's most archetypes if built with any thought and it really makes me wish ANY of the options in... most games like this, really, but certainly Kingmaker/WotR were like that.
And by 'like that' I mean not the specifics, but the fact it both feels and looks fluid, and has a unique style to it compared to other options. Some of the Arbitrator-adjacent additions have a bit of that too, but since that's an origin and not an archetype it's far less, but at least anyone can fuck around with a shield.

Started playing Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous and it's kind of lame how much of the story content is tied up with the companions. I'd find the game much more interesting and in the vein of the tabletop version if you could roll a full party of customized mercenaries and have interactions arise from their chosen personality type, alignment, deity, background. I'd actually prefer it if the game wasn't voice acted at all, seems like a massive waste of time and resources for often irritating results. I guess I'll just make a full party of customized mercs with Toy Box and Visual Adjustments 2 and miss out on most of the companion content, doesn't seem like I'll be missing out on much anyway.

>>3801544
>doesn't seem like I'll be missing out on much anyway.
Yeah, a mere quarter of the content all put together, no big deal
I've long since learned that either you tolerate the shitty companions or you may as well play something else, because it desperately wants you to hang out with these people and ties pretty much all extra content to them

>>3801544
The original AP fucking sucks and Owlcat somehow made it worse, so if you're looking for story you're definitely in the wrong place. Not that Owlcat handled the gameplay any better, mind you.

>>3801583
>and Owlcat somehow made it worse
But hey, at least it doesn't have Iomedae DOOTing your entire party with the force of a giant hammer if you don't give the answers she wants to a stupid quiz

The good thing about the difficulty is that, if it weren't so easy, I would actually be fucking seething at all the ways the combat can jank out and fuck you over.
>Triggered another wave of enemies after killing some dude? Too bad, the rest your full auto attack just got cancelled.
>Spotted a hidden object or mine? Too bad, the rest of your move got cancelled. (Goes double for Bladedancer, since if they spot it when using Death From Above they land in the spot between enemies and don't get to attack)
>Boss has some mechanic at HP thresholds? Fuck the entire rest of your turn, too bad about those 4AP left.
If not for the fact all of those are often irrelevant, certain encounters would be fucking insufferable.

>>3801544
>I'd find the game much more interesting and in the vein of the tabletop version if you could roll a full party of customized mercenaries
This is the correct way to play all cRPGs

>>3797340
Heretic route is one of the more well done “evil” routes in owcat games since your Warrant allows you to do whatever you want. If you bring the hyper dogmatic characters along with you (mainly Argenta and Heinrix) then they’ll actively do their best to bar you from engaging cooperatively with daemons. You have the legal right to do anything you could ever dream (save for refusing to pay your tithes) so there’s nothing your companions or crew can do about it if you commit random acts of murder, torture, or allow the nobles of your worlds to engage in drug-fueled orgies; and in fact this is pretty normal behavior for Rogue Traders at large even if they aren’t actively serving the Ruinous Powers. Hyper zealous, ultra dogmatic Rogue Traders are much rarer in the setting because again the Warrant grants Traders unprecedented rights of conduct that no one can rival; zero incentive to keep yourself in check as to how subservient you are to the Emperor when Big E himself gave your dynasty a signed document with his blood saying “do whatever you want”. You being a greedy, malignant, profiteering scoundrel IS serving the Emperor according to the Lex Imperialis. Imperium nobles being corrupted by Chaos through hubris, ambition, or greed is pretty par for the course in 40k anyway, and Rogue Traders becoming corrupted is common enough in lore.

Considering how much of a paranoid, controlling, my-way-or-die motherfucker the Emperor was, the fact the Warrants of Trade he signed personally are so vague continuously baffles me

I think that having your gameplay revolve around several of your dudes buffing one dude who then purges the whole screen in a single turn is very close to the lamest design possible.

>>3801739
He knew some basic history and economy and so figured out that putting a handful of dudes operating just out of Imperium's borders under laissez-faire conditions so that all wealth concentrates on them is the cheapest possible solution to the border question. They are vague specifically to make it so that a RT operates under nearly no legal restrictions, and therefore naturally accumulates unreasonable wealth, which he uses to be a big problem for everyone and everything around aside from the source of his lawless tyranny.

It's directly inspired by actual historical feudal practices - see the original marcher lords, marquesses and margraves, sicut regale writ and such stuff.

Just finished the new DLC. Not as good as Void Shadows, but I still enjoyed it. The final fight, narratively and mehcanical, was pretty cool. Hard to argue against her, though, considering all the shit Rogue Traders get up to, even if not you specifically.

>>3801739
Big E was a very “ends justify the means” kind of person, especially when it came to the Great Crusade. It’s why he never purged the Night Lords despite being fully aware that they kidnap and torture people to ensure compliance on occupied worlds and engage in virus bombing civilians when invading worlds. He cares less of how the job gets done as long as it gets done. So he had the same approach with Rogue Traders; as long as new worlds are being brought into Imperium space, the economy is running well, and the tithes are being paid he couldn’t care less about how it’s being done.

>>3801743
RT is one of the games where this applies the least

>>3801801
No? I mean you CAN fight normally but the objectively most effective method is to debuff enemies and buff the dedicated murder machine with Cassia, Idira, Pasqual, whatever else, then just go in and kill everything
Once you casually tank every enemy's stats to basically nothing and run in with 200+ stat bullshit one turn is all you need, MAYBE two for mop-up

>>3801807
>Idira buffing
Idira can murder the map much more easily than almost anyone would you buff.
Any well built AM just self scales while running around cleaning up the map.
Any executioner can hit the carnival and delete most of the map (Pyro using Firestorm to ignite everyoen again even more so, and heinrix can do this)
Heck, everyone but the boss of the encounter can die to Cassia first turn.
Officer extra turns are not even needed, but simplify it even further.
Did you get your impressions from Chapter 1?

>>3801807
You can solo the entire game as a warrior -> vanguard with a thunder hammer who dumps everything into strength, toughness, and weapon skill.
>aggros everything
>instant parries all melee attacks before immediately countering
>tanks all ranged attacks
It’s extremely easy to become overpowered if you know how to build your Lord Captain correctly.

>>3796233
Pathfinder raped me repeatedly on normal

>>3801979
It's just the matter of knowing the system and it's proper cheeses. Both RT's and PFs' progression systems dump a deluge of contextless information leaving you to sift through dozens of trap options with a fraction understanding of what any of them even mean in combat. But once you figure out what is strong and how to use it all three games become straight up solved for you, to the point of boredom.

>>3801985
>dozens of trap options
>RT
That's a new one.
Heck,even for pathdfinder, unless you play hard/unfair, pureclassing anything is not a trap(even rogue)

>>3801990
>That's a new one.
Anon there's loads of useless talents in every archetype, to say nothing of universal ones. If a new player happens to take those instead of the vital ones the combat will feel suddenly really difficult.

>>3801990
It does have trap options, but they're mostly in the form of common talents that you would never even think to pick. Or just intentionally picking things that use characteristics you don't use because you hate yourself. Basically you can still shove a fork in an outlet, but that's kind of on you at that point

>>3801998
>>3802000
>load
Not really.
Lots are focused on the type of ability you pick.
And the amount of common talents no character build would want, you can count on one hand(even skill ones have a point for some if you game for certain combos and gear that gains bonsues from it).
Plus, for RT, it's so fucking easy, the concept of trap does not exist.
Even if you pick Hive world Priest Operative.

>>3802002
I mean you can say it's so easy it doesn't matter all you want, but the countless posts you see online of people complaining about this or that part being "impossible" disproves that point
If it was truly impossible to fuck up your characters it wouldn't be a thing

>>3802105
I used to think so to an extent, but then I saw that these people online were the kidn who woudl say 'why should I have to buff, where does it say Wisdom is the main spellcasting stat, Story difficulty is not story cause I still lost a fight' etc.
Like, a baseline of 'not clinically retarded and willing to read and engage with the mechanics' should be the norm

>>3802105
I'd argue that it comes more from
>people only playing the early game and getting overwhelmed with the number of choices during initial level ups
>not actually using or paying attention ot most of the stuff they upgrade
And if it really was super difficult for them, they can just use online guides one google search away.

>>3797742
You don't even have to look up builds, just read the descriptions of skills. I dunno how people fail to do stupidly overpowered builds in cRPGs, it's really THAT fucking easy.

>>3797548
It has a couple of good moments but it's mostly barren

Which Pathfinder archetype do I choose if I want to play as a weak smelly hobo that gets beaten up by everything?

>>3802160
>just read the descriptions of skills
You need to understand what those descriptions are saying, and Owlcat games don't exactly do a stellar job of making those very clear.

Unfair was a very easy steamroll for me with an Officer RT, GS Cassia burst Argenta and Medicae-scaling Kibs, but it's also completely obvious to me how the mechanics and talent interactions can be overwhelming and confusing to anyone with little prior cRPG experience. When they hear "temporary wounds" or "every skill test", they don't think what the game wants them to think. You just don't remember how occult it all seemed before your cumulative 3000 hours across the genre.

Compare with BG3, where you never have more than like 5 options to choose from on a level up, and they are all explained in total bonehead language to the point where a a 4-year old has no issue parsing at least the general idea behind most abilities and synergies. And there are still people who got stuck there on Balanced mode.

>>3802173
The role monk was build to play

>>3802177
There is a Drunken Master archetype but I want to play as a Drunken Incompetent.

>>3802187
Really monk isn't even that bad, since you can just use pummeling style. It's easy enough to fuck up if you don't know what you're doing though, so it seemed like a natural fit

>>3802189
Would be kind of funny if they included abysmally bad joke classes in the tabletop for the RP value, but I guess if they died immediately in combat the player would have to re-roll a new character. It would be very short lived fun and disruptive to the game flow.

>>3802160
Okay, but let me present a hypothetical. You're a totally new player, and you play Operative because it sounds appealing, whatever. You feel a bit squishy, and you look at your defensive options. Since you're playing a sniper, you figure "I'm gonna be sitting on my ass most of the fight behind cover, maybe Covert Protocol?"
But how are you meant to be SURE what cover efficiency even does? The game doesn't explain the term - there's an entry in the in-game reference for cover itself, but no ONE mention of what 'cover efficiency' refers to, so you have to just guess whether it's a flat increase to cover percentage (which might seem weird, since it would actually make half-cover better than full-cover with the talent) or something else (like a percentage applied TO the cover to-hit reduction, which then seems potentially too low). Even once you know that (by checking combat rolls before and after taking the talent) you also have no real way of knowing how far that +15/30% will go in the long term, and are you really going to make a build with the expectation of using respec? Especially considering you get what, three freebies on that, then it starts eating into your PF, which you really need in the early stages.

Yes, there are things that are obvious, like Swift Slaughter or most psychic/navigator powers. But then you look at shit like Thick Skin for warrior - useful, but how the fuck are you gonna know that for sure as a new player? It's 1 deflection and bonus parry based on armor, what the fuck does that even mean to a rando?

>>3802268
this desu

>>3802268
Go to your logs or scroll over on each attribute and it instantly gives you a detailed description of what each stat mechanically does with detail.
>deflection negates damage outright per point of deflection, armor subtracts total damage based on percentage (scum with knife deals 8 damage to your Lord Captain. You have an armor rating of 25% and a deflection of 1. Your armor reduces the total damage to 6 and the damage mechanically dealt to your Lord Captain results in 5 due to deflection, meaning you take 5 damage from the scum’s knife attack)

>>3802268
>bonus parry based on armor, what the fuck does that even mean to a rando?
Oh, so I want more armor, oh look this has synergy with parry, oh what if I put the two together. Why are you assuming that rando is dumb and incapable of experimenting and learning to refine a better build?

Speaking of builds, you know, I'm normally the type that enjoys comparing and discussing those, or at least looking what other people have cooked up, and holy fuck. It feels like four out of five builds for the RT or mercs are just psyker this and psyker that, most frequently pyromancer with executioner to delete the whole encounter.
I mean I understand that psykers have some real busted options, but...

>>3802315
Psyker is the strongest so you clickbait with 'Turn 1 map deletion with Carnival plus Firestorm wow' or 'Set Heinrix on fire and get him to PR 10'

>>3802315
You're absolutely right but the thing is you'd be crazy not to pick a psyker even if you're not using any psy abilities. Some of the talents and abilities are just that good. Everyone can use free attacks, everyone can use dealing more damage etc.
Executioner is just busted by design with how it works.

>>3802315
The problem is that Psyker should never have been just a background, but now they've locked themselves into it. The even bigger issue is that for whatever reason they refuse to just go back and readjust the other options to make them... if not equal in power then at least not quite so vastly outperformed. They added Arbitrator now, which is still not psyker-tier but at least has more unique options and gimmicks, but that just exacerbates the issue, as it's really the only other background people care about much.
Now, obviously, those who have a specific concept in mind for the RP part of RPG just do whatever, but those are also not the people who would generally bother to post their builds, and more importantly, not the people build autists want to appeal to when posting their shit - it's all about effectiveness there, and no matter how good your Priest Soldier with a big fucking flamer or your... literally anyting Bladedancer is, they would both be better if they were psykers instead.
And also, the fact that while in tabletop you have people who have split autism between roleplay and optimization, and so apply their tism to make a character as good as it could be without veering from an occasionally extremely strict concept, that does not seem to be the case with cRPG; you usually have people who play whatever because they want to, and the people who tinker around to optimize, and never the twain shall meet.

>>3802355
>is still not psyker-tier
Honestly it's the next best thing and I'd argue even better than psyker for some builds. It can completely fix the lack of attacks per turn or mobility of early operatives for example.
I understand they want to sell their dlc but it's bullshit when you introduce something new that outright shits on almost everything available so far.

>>3802357
I mean yeah, that was kind of what I was getting at, guess it wasn't phrased right. Arbitrator is what ALL backgrounds should be like, if they want to keep psyker as a step above for muh lore reasons or what have you.
There's a similar issue with DLC archetypes, since Bladedancer basically shits on Fighter (yes, it can be way more fragile until reaching dodge overload, but it hardly matters when it clears half the enemies in one turn), Executioner is just batshit, and Overseer is not only strong by itself but makes any Psyker even more ridiculous due to the Psy-Raven. Ironically though their poster child, the cyber-mastiff, is just the accessible-to-all eagle but worse, for some reason.
I can only imagine the next two DLC will also feature power creep, and I don't dare hope they'd go back to rebalance the core elements afterwards, considering all the shit they've left unfixed, let alone unbalanced, in their old games.

Seeing how we're talking mechanics, in some way... I figured I'd do Forge World / Crime Lord / Operative, but I'm about done with Act 1 and honestly can't figure out which second-tier archetype to go with. Assassin is obviously fine but I'll already have Operative/Assassin in Yrliet so fuck that level of overlap, but Bounty Hunter seems kind of lackluster, unless I'm missing something, and I don't even know where I'd begin with the other options.

>>3802369
>operative
Ugh.
Anyway, Bounty hunter is actually great.
Trail is a great all map debuff, prey gives good bonuses to you and everyone and stacks up crit constantly when you hit, cull the bold is a great bonus and the extra free turns you can get are great to stack exploits , traps and whatever. It gets more hilarious if you have multiple bounty hunters or use stims.
It would have been even better with Soldier so you could actually shoot well and more time while stacking even more damage .
Though having more than 2 BHs in the party is a lot of extra clicks, let me warn you

>>3802364
>Bladedancer basically shits on Fighter
BDs are really strong but especially since they finally fixed breakthru/slash warrior is seriously nothing to call shit. Lots of free attacks, loads of mobility, morale that doesn't use up MP after attack, MP on kill and a shitload of dependable easy to stack base damage. If you go psyker you have those same +veil swords, if you go arbites you can two charges plus some other neat shit and can use some of those chainaxes that aren't half bad either. Isn't horrible to pivot into flamers or shotguns either if you go for the AM instead of EX either since all-round good synergy between the two.

>cyber-mastiff
They have a couple of their unique items that are busted but yeah, not my first choice either.

>>3802377
>Ugh.
Look man, I just like the concept. What's wrong with it, anyway? Seems to work fine, and I like the innate synergy with Idira and Pasqal for stacking more exploits.
Anyway, thanks for the tip. I guess I'll have a better look at it, maybe test it out and respec or something. What about Grand Strategist, Executioner and Overseer?

>>3802388
Grand Strategist' main benefit is going first.
You going first does not matter as much, cause you are not an officer nor a psyker (who can pick their psyker abilities and talents instead of GS). Your int is not that high to boost zones , assuming you have another GS like Cassia either.

Executioner only has a point if you are warrior, bladedancer and/or psyker.

Overseer is not great cause you do not have good buffs/debuffs to spread. The skull is still cute, but it will feels underwhelming.

>>3802369
>Bounty Hunter seems kind of lackluster
So, you have a couple of things going for you. The operative abilities and some talents work real well with their more base damage and accuracy with massive crits from BH and usually depend on the same PER stat. And since you're an operative, that means you get that tide of excellence for stacking base damage and % damage on popping exploits. That works on any source of damage including using your free claim the bounty with a shotgun, traps or an arc rifle. Speaking of traps you can get that talent that completely refunds one free attack on targets that are immobilized, stunned and a what was the third thing. That also works on AOE attacks and multiple targets. And speaking of claim the bounty you can get free turns that allow for more traps that lead for more free kills that lead to yet more traps. Really convenient to spam psy and bait for perils but you didn't went that route. When you get into exemplars you have deathdealer for yet more attacks.

Honestly it can work really nicely with a dual pistol build when you have a foehammer or some of those knife ear blasters in the first slot and something rapid fire in the second and a arc or 2h flamer in the second.

>>3802378
>>3802364
Not to mention that Warrior's heroic hour is more useful in quite a few maps/setups. Zooming around and spreading attacks as you see fit is just more applicable in many situations.
Plus, you can use rock saws which are just hilarious with sworn enemy and reckless strike

>>3802397
>the forbidden saw build
Oh yes lol, who doesn't love having +gorillion base damage and +gorilion% additional damage on their multistrike per attack (and now keep firing works on melee as well) industrial equipment.

I'm more than a little bothered that Jae gets to dual wield better than the RT just because.

>>3802417
She is an officer, so it matters not.
Go soldier, grab her holster and you will be great at it

>>3802428
>master tactician has entered the chat

Man, Heretic is so fucking stupid
At this point it's more laughing at the reactions it gets, and the fact Heinrix and Argenta both enter peak impotent seethe mode because the plot demands it of them (presumably until later). Well, that's if the game doesn't straight up pretend they're not there just to allow me to be an obvious fucking problem.

>>3802443
>MT after removing the flat bonus
>soldier can go MT too
Meh

>>3802388
>What's wrong with it, anyway?
He's probably the type who can't stand the thought of an archetype that doesn't embrace the "as many attacks as you can possibly get" meta.
Snide bullshit aside, the game is unfortunately designed around that, and Operative has a very bad reputation due to being - by itself - strictly focused on One Big Hit, which usually makes it feel very underwhelming unless it uses AoE weapons and leans really hard into getting as many exploits out as possible... but even then, it'll AT BEST barely compete with a Soldier in that area. It can technically outperform many other options against certain bosses, especially coupled with Assassin for instance, but under most circumstances its turns will achieve far less than any other character's. Yeah, you can pop the head of any given enemy... provided the 5% minimum miss chance doesn't fuck you at that exact moment, and in the same time that nearly every single one of your companions can eliminate a dozen targets.
If the game wasn't quite so fond of shitting chaff all over you there might be a better place for it, but as it is, the most ardent defense you'll ever see for them is either "it's fine if you grit your teeth and actually play your character once they get a second archetype" or "I just really wanted a sniper tho". And the latter usually just use Yrliet for it, not the RT.
Doesn't help that the other thing they were useful for has basically ceased to exist due to a poorly thought out nerf that went from too good to literally fucking useless.

>>3802478
Not that guy, but the whole exploit/analyze mechanic is just too tedious for my tastes for how little it feels like it changes in your outcomes.
Same reason I avoid grand strategist despite it actually being good, though that's a much more extreme case. Everything is so easy anyway, so why would I want to waste more time?
Though to be fair I haven't touched the new DLC yet, so I don't know if anything has changed

>>3802504
What's tedious about it? Have that thing that stacks exploits on everyone and have tides of excellence.

>>3802504
Technically, you have should have more than 1 operative stacking it passively and only bothering with clicks when it strips a boss/prey to 0% armor.But it loses meaning after midgame, even on unfair

>>3802315
>pyromancer with executioner to delete the whole encounter.
Those "builds" always crack me up, because they're basically identical the second you get Executioner, so it feels like what comes before exists only so people make twenty variations and claim they're all different builds. As if it fucking matters what your mechanical playstyle is in Rykad, when it's such a short part of the game.
Really, it's my issue with ALL psyker builds. I mean, yes, I understand going all in on Psyker. But then differentiating 'but this one briefly uses Operative' or whatever is fucking meaningless.

>>3802522
The way the game is made is to look like you somehow worked out a build, despite just getting the same result pretty much no matter what if you pick the same archetypes and don't pick intentionally bad talents

>>3802529
>if i play the game same it ends up the same
You don't say.

>>3802538
No, if it means the only actual choice you make is the archetypes (or being a psyker). All the choices within them are just clutter to make it look more complicated

>>3802538
The issue is that not playing the same way is basically fucking yourself over just for the hell of it. While there aren't many talents that are outright useless (maybe a few generic ones, but even then you might have a good reason to take them), certain talents and abilities are so vastly superior to the alternatives that you're basically going with a handicap. Like sure, you COULD do a Bladedancer without Blood Oath + Blood Rush, but why? You COULD do an Assassin without Killing Edge, but why? And those are just the obvious examples, but every single Archetype has several abilities and talents like that. Either those are too good, or the rest are too weak, doesn't matter - if you're building a character to actually get through the combat in a reasonable manner, of course you're likely to take them every time.

>>3802544
This is actually a common issue in Owlcat games - way too many talents that you take no matter what on every character

ie.
>Outflank in Pathfinder on every melee
>Eager for battle in RT
The way they fix the "every build is the same" is to identify those "always-take" talents and make several variants of those that are mutually exclusive and give unique benefits

>Rogue Trader, the game explicitly about the wacky assholes who bend the rules and surround themselves with all sorts of degenerate 'sanctioned' shit, and which had rules for goddamn Ork Freebootas and fucking Tau in the tabletop
>Two (2) possible non-humans in the retinue, both Eldar, and the only abhuman is the strictly necessary Navigator
>Dark Heresy, the game about being acolytes of the Inquisition, most often tasked with investigation and infiltration regardless of the Ordo, and which by necessity only allowed at MOST a Hive Mutant, and even that in the Radical Handbook
>Eldar who looks suspiciously like a Farseer wannabe, an Ogryn, and a fucking Kroot, and that's just in the promo image so far (which didn't show most companions for RT)
What did Owlcat mean by this

>>3796223 (OP)
>>3796233
This. Every RPG is the same. On Unfair the game is hard for the first chapter, then you slowly become a god and it doesn't matter. WOTR the hardest part in the game is the maze. Once you make it out of there you basically win the game.

>>3802552
How is this Owlcats fault though? They built the game around Pathfinder and Pathfinder has Outflank. I guess they could change it, but then it wouldn't be Pathfinder.

>>3802544
>Like sure, you COULD do a Bladedancer without Blood Oath + Blood Rush, but why?
Just rebeat the game on unfair and I never used these with Kibellah. Wasn't even a need to. Usually everything would die on turn 1 from my rogue trader and if it didn't I would just clean up with blade dance and death from above. Fight would take longer if I took the time to click those buttons.

>>3802807
>WOTR the hardest part in the game is the maze. Once you make it out of there you basically win the game.
You mean the path to the mutant village, after that you're high enough level to dumpster the maze.

>>3802811
Depends on what settings you use. If you turn off even leveling you can dumpster on it. If you don't there's some annoying fights.

>>3802812
I think you should have at least a couple characters be around level 2 by the end no matter what, enough to take an animal companion on at least one character.

>>3802808
They did make flanking significantly easier to do

>>3802820
Which is hilarious, because even the first Pillars of Eternity game has flanking implemented correctly as it is in 1e tabletop, and that came out three (3) years before KM.

>>3802825
I don't think you can rule out them just not wanting flanking to be hard to do. Even if what they did would have theoretically taken less work, rogues aren't really known for having it easy in 3.5/PF, and the mechanic benefits them the most.

>>3802829
It's Owlcat, it was for sure incompetence and having to make an actual effort in encounter design that put them off.

>>3802832
I guess sometimes laziness and fixing stupid shit in 3.5 sometimes just happens to align. Like crossbows not having extra action requirements.
In any case, it shouldn't be considered flanking when you're attacking from horseback with your own horse that also has outflank. That's just ridiculous

>>3802810
I fail to see how that's in any meaningful way relevant to my point. That you don't need to optimize every character if you hyper-optimize one to the point of having an "I win" button is a given, and in no way affects the superiority of Blood Oath + Blood Rush BD over a BD without them in isolation.

>>3802808
With how much homebrewing there is in Kingmaker and Wrath -- such as allowing players to play in RTWP which pretty much disables half of the combat mechanics (ie. initiative doesnt work at all how its supposed to since you can freely move at all times and kite) -- they might as well keep on going with it and add/change things. Unless they werent allowed to by the license holder or some shit

Besides, this doesnt explain RT

>>3802791
That they have absolutely no regard or respect for the source material and just do what they like or what'll get people clapping like idiots. Obviously.
This shouldn't be a surprise given their past displays.

>>3803128
Their version of being a low level inquisitorial acolyte will probably have you sitting in a throne room with people asking you if planets should be exterminated or not. They aren't a good fit for DH

>>3803362
To be fair, they don't need to go low-level, Dark Heresy had the incredibly busted in every way Ascension, so it covered veteran Interrogators (people far beyond even Heinrix). But even then it's hard to imagine that kind of team. I mean the Ogryn, sure. Abhumans are a-ok, even if the tabletop version didn't cover them. But Xenos? You ain't a Rogue Trader, you don't have the excuse. You have PLENTY of Inquisitors using xenotech and even incredibly suspicious chaos-adjacent methods, among the Radicals that is, but I can't think of any that associated with non-humans in anything more than a VERY coldly professional capacity for as little time as possible. Even among the Radicals. They'd sooner have a fucking Daemonhost than an alien.
Speaking of which, if they have a fucking Kroot and Eldar but don't let you have a Daemonhost it'll be the peak of bullshit

>>3803365
At ascension level sanctioned xenos aren't that absurd even if there weren't rules for it, but it's notable that ascension level is basically a different game entirely where you're either a high level political figure that plays around with their influence or a superpowered bodyguard/assassin

>>3803371
>either a high level political figure that plays around with their influence or a superpowered bodyguard/assassin
or just the biggest fucking nerd ever
Adept topping the hilarity charts no matter the rank
I really hope they'll have Adept as an option, I love that stupid shit

So I played a little at launch as a Navy officer but it didn't really seem to give me much. better origins?

>>3803656
Mechanically or narratively?

>>3803665
eh both

>>3803656
Quick origin summary:
>Psyker
The strongest. Works with everything
>Overseer
Second strongest, but you need to pick one of the 3 sub-origins to match your build a bit more carefully
>Navy
Vanilla, but works for both melee and ranged a bit plus gives a free movement turn
>Priest
Boosting momentum is good, but otherwise kinda meh since you need WP for extra benefits. Can be retarded if someone like Cassia gives the WP buff to you, Flensing Faith is good if you go for the specific weapon types.
>Noble
Good and soulful for officer, irrelevant otherwise
>Astra Militarum
Pretty much for ranged, and few bonuses are persistent.
>Commisar
Too much hassle and set-up for not that great benefit

>>3803688
I forgot criminal.
It's okay with any build (easy extra dodge , damage boost etc) but relies on INT which is a stat that is utilized only by operative or Voidborn officers

>>3803688
>Overseer
I assume you mean Arbite

>>3803688
Navy Officer is more geared towards ranged characters if you want to utilize all of its origin talents and doing a melee build for it is redundant since Abelard already exists. Commissar is great for a fighter -> vanguard or officer -> anything and that’s about it.

>>3803656
Literally any other for power level. As for muh larp why even care, roll with what you want.

>>3802544
>Kingmaker role play party where I'd only take Blind fight on a monk
>House at the Edge of Time

>>3804833
>Echolocation on Jubi
Done

What's the consensus for the new DLC?

>>3805139
>consensus
None.
But if you filter out the 'see nigger, won't buy' comments, the more common sentiment seems to be:

>Arbites is a great enw origin with many variations
>Overseer is fun, giving new options and not being busted in a simple way
>Ship raid is a great mission
>Thassera is a nice new locale to go through
>The battles overall in all areas have some nice gimmicks to kee it fresh
>Arbites Lawtism is potrayed decently
>Solomorne has good interjections based on the above, but not as interesting/messed up as other characters
>The overarching plot and climax is not as good as Void shadows
>Somewhat fewer NPCs and roleplaying options overall than Void shadows
>Not many new banger tracks
So whatever score you'd give Void shadows, this is a bit lower

>>3796223 (OP)

>RT Unfair is easy
>Pathfinder Unfair is stupid

>meanwhile, this is how I look on Daring (lvl 19)

First time playing an Owlcat game and I've started with this because it was supposed to be the easiest of the three. I was planning to play WotR afterwards, does this mean I can forget about it? No, I will not play on easy or even normal and I will not follow guides on how to break the game with your characters, for me that takes half the fun of playing an RPG

>>3805224
>Playing WOTR on unfair with zero knowledge of the pathfinder system

Genuine masochism, the name of that difficulty lives up to its name. That being said, normal is basically easy mode in WOTR and easy is games journalist mode. 'Core' is the intended experience for veterans and would be challenging without being ballbreaking for a new player.

>>3805224
Hard to say whats going wrong without seeing your builds, but make sure Cassia has Grand Strategist - this allows you to always go first and give turns to other people before enemy gets to play, which is huge (I rightfully dont remember if this fight is before or after you pick second class desu but just in case)

Pasqal is also a pretty bad character overall due to being an Operative, replacing him with Jae will always be an upgrade since shes an Officer. Dont fall for the "i must reduce armor" meme, giving more turns to your dudes instead is always better.

And yes, Pathfinder Unfair is notoriously difficult and pretty much requires expert metagame knowledge since 80% of the classes are bad/useless

>>3801985
>It's just the matter of knowing the system and it's proper cheeses

I will never understand how someone can say that and not see the immediate flaw in this argument. It's like playing a puzzle/adventure game and following a walkthrough. Actually no, it's even worse, because the game pretends there are valid options/choices when in reality you MUST follow a build to a less or greater degree or else you've softlocked yourself.

Where the fuck is the fun in that?

>>3805246
You missed this part of the post
>once you figure it out
The trap options are grossly exaggerated sometimes, but figuring out how to game an RPG is part of the fun.
Not reading build guides.

I just find it funny how people say the game is easy and then reveal they play the same fucking meta builds and party comp as everyone else
No shit it's gonna be easy when you break it, waow, it's like being shocked WotR can't handle a bunch of optimized characters led by a spellbook merged full caster with Greater Abundant Spells and Greater Enduring Spells
To be clear, I have nothing against character optimization, quite the opposite. I just find it amusing. And to be double clear, I don't even mean the advice above, just bad timing, since as you say, giving any specific pointers is difficult without seeing the potential issues.

>>3805259
It's not like there is a plethora of archetypes and companions to use in Act 2 compared to other CRPGs.
Like,the two weakest characters in your party for Act 2 are Abelard and Pasqal who are still unfair viable no matter which 2nd archetype you pick.
You can run a party of your MC, Abelard, Pasqal, Yrliet, Jae and whoever for 6th, and still trash the game.
Unless you are retarded and do not bother to read, talent choices are also easy since you have many that directly improve abilties/weapon types you focus on, and then you can pick anything that scales.
I never run the same party two instances in a row on Unfair and I was never hampered.

This is not like unfair in pathfidner games where party synergy actually matters and where archetypes actually get filtered cause they have a hard time early on.

>>3805240

My Operative Crime Lord went GS because it's a voidborn, I thought I'll combo it with Be Smart and use INT for everything. I've been trying to build my character around passing skill checks with pitiful combat stats I get around by using a sniper rifle (the fact I got 50WS with 25STR is a bad sign, wonder if it makes sense to go melee and pump STR). Cassia is MT, she already buffs people a lot as an Officer. Pasqal is probably the one character I should replace as I'm going for INT/logic/tech use (though he's better at it than I am) but I enjoy him as a character and I've been trying to build him as a Plasma user. Argenta is usually my "run up to their faces and unload half the bolter mag" girl and she's pretty solid at that with potential to grow. Both her and Pasqal are Bounty Hunters because I spent around 20 minutes looking at 2nd tier of classes and I could not tell which is the best for ranged characters. Abelard is a Vanguard, I didn't think I'd need a tank but boy am I glad I decided to go that way. My last character spot is "free", which I've noticed will go to the story mandated character. Pity, I haven't even gotten the Eldar. Not helping is the fact I'm dead set on having Abelard, Argenta and Cassia in party as I like them, at least for 1 playthrough. Skipping Jae/Henrix for now but I could be just building them poorly.

Overall I am getting better at the combat (character placement, combo'ing). The fact that 3 of my characters are Operatives kinda sucks, I don't even know if the ability to increase Ally damage and cause them to consume exploits stack or not since the combat log doesn't say as much. The fight I posted is the first time a boss flat out OHKO'd and/or laid prone most of my party (including Abelard, who had Brace For Impact activated - thanks Owlcat, "grants immunity to Prone effects" my fucking ass) leaving them at 10% hp. As you can tell, I'm trying to play it blind which includes rolling with bad combat start.

>>3805224
Just play on core rules. It’s one step above normal, and definitely doable even if you don’t know dnd 3,5/PF system.
There is another level above it but below unfair if you really want to but unfair is properly hard with stupid stuff like 2x the damage bonus for enemy cries and whatever.

>>3805259
To be fair, the most popular and most obvious mythic path (angel) is so gamebreakingly overpowered that nothing else really matters.

>>3805275
It only trivializes things on a merge build due to breaking the progression curve.
Act 3 non merge angel is not that strong (though the ward spells become a big convenience in general)

>>3805272
NTA, but for what it's worth, I've finished my first playthrough with Operative Crime Lord (on Daring also, in fact) and I've never had issues with it, though my approach was to just pump Per/Int and later BS (probably should've done BS/Per with secondary Int instead, in hindsight, but muh surefire plan), though mine was Forge World for Calculated Relations instead. Anyway, at every stage of the game it tore any boss enemy apart, so long as the gear was up to snuff.
I'm shocked that Vanguard Abelard would be capable of being one-shot, maybe it's gear? Even when things went tits up for me he was usually the one character who didn't give much of a shit due to all the Armor and Deflection (especially once I decided to give him a shield and relevant talents for the laughs)

>>3805272
>Argenta
>Both her and Pasqal are Bounty Hunters
Found the issue

Argenta def wants to be Arch Militant -- BH is an awful class. Argenta with AM+Heavy Bolter absolutely melts things, apart from Heinrix she's easily the top dmg dealer in the game

>As you can tell, I'm trying to play it blind which includes rolling with bad combat start.
Based anon

>>3805293
>BH is an awful class
No, it isn't.
AM is better with heavy weaponry and cautious stance is the best way to not get touched by anything, but BH can melt shit easily. Especially if you have multiple. Free atatcks, cull teh bold buff, easy crit damage stacking for you and the party.

Also, Argenta is behind Idira, Heinrix and Kibs for damage. Heck, even ulfar at this point

>>3805296
>AM is better with heavy weaponry and cautious stance is the best way to not get touched by anything
You dont take cautious stance on AM. Read the ability description anon

Makes sense for you to think Argenta is somehow behind Ulfar or Kibellah if youve been taking stances on AM :D

>>3805299
Yes, you do.
And you do shitton of damage and clean a map in one turn regardless. You need to read on AM talents a bit more carefully.
She is still below the psykers and an executoner. And there is nothing she can do that Ulfar cannot as an AM

>>3805302
>Yes, you do.
No you dont lmao. Both Cautious Approach and Confident Approach cut down your damage output massively

Im not arguing about psyker doing more dmg than AM, but Ulfar is definitely way below Argenta, and in most scenarios non-psyker Exe will also have effectively worse clear and much worse single target dps

>>3805293
>Argenta def wants to be Arch Militant

Like I mentioned earlier, I tried to read through the archetypes and I found that AM seemed (which is the operative word here) to be all about swapping weapons, which I thought to be counter-intuitive, given that until that point Argenta was all about dumping half her Bolter magazine into clusters of enemies. As for the gear, I think I've been quite thorough, wear +armour and heavy armour on him etc.

I don't know, maybe this fight was an outlier. I'm a little scared since as of this point enemies routinely have twice or thrice as much hp as my characters, let alone bring 10-20 friends each combat (and it's no longer chaff).

>>3805302
>there is nothing she can do that Ulfar cannot as an AM
Lol Ulfar cant even use any of the good weapons like Improved HB

The fuck are you smoking guy

>>3805304
Not with Malphian shround, they will not. And Carnival is even more far reaching than any ranged setup.
And again, considering the extra equipment and boosted stats, the only Reason you'd pick Argenta over Ulfar is him being a fatass and not maneuvering well in some maps

>>3805305
>AM seemed (which is the operative word here) to be all about swapping weapons, which I thought to be counter-intuitive, given that until that point Argenta was all about dumping half her Bolter magazine into clusters of enemies.
Yeah I can see how one can reach that conclusion, but in reality you dont switch weapons at all with AM since you get an ability called Reckless Rush, which gives you a metric fuckton of Versatility stacks (which in turn allow you to do more attacks per turn and boost dmg output greatly)

>>3805308
Yes, he can now.
Seriously.
Load the game

>>3805305
>>3805311
Or you simply switch type of attack and you do some sniping with her single attack with Bolter casing which never misses and build up stacks easily regardless.

You know, this whole "no bro you have to do the best thing stop playing half the archetypes and using half the abilities" is a bit part of why people refuse to get into cRPG

>>3805326
For unfair and such difficulties, kinda (though not in RT).
But retards complain even on normal cause they refuse to read

>>3805343
Yeah but you see it right now, in a discussion about fucking Daring, and people out there going "NEVER play BH, NEVER use Cautious/Confident Approach" even though neither of those matters enough on that difficulty unless you really shit the bed
It's like some people are incapable of understanding the difference between "sub-optimal" and "useless"

>>3805311

Can't say I'm happy to learn that I drew wrong conclusions based on seemingly correct reasoning. Whatever, I chose Daring to have some leeway in case I make a "mistake" like that (wonder how many of those I made). Will see how things proceed from this point onwards, the Voidship the battle took place gave me some clues regarding Hereteks corrupting my forge planet, this seems to be a big clue that I should go there first and not the agri-planet to secure the food deal, even though I barely got through the fight. I would also prefer to go in a straight line in case time spent travelling on the Navigation map advances the plot (you don't have to say whether I'm right about that) and not just mission order

>>3805314
>Or you simply switch type of attack

Does that actually work? I'm pretty sure the wording pointed to using different weapons (different slots)

>>3805343

Go fuck yourself, clown

>>3805354
Versatility is the core mechanic of AM. This is the in-game tooltip.
>Whenever the Arch-Militant uses an attack that is of a different type from their previous attack, the Arch-Militant gains a stack of versatility. The types of attacks can be single shot, single melee attack, area melee attack, area shot, or burst. The Arch-Militant gains +3 WS and BS for every stack of versatility. If the Arch-Militant has 4 or more stacks of versatility, the Arch-Militant deals an additional +(10 + WS bonus)% or +(10 + BS bonus)% damage, whichever is highest.


>Whenever the Arch-Militant uses an attack that is of a different type from their previous attack
>The types of attacks can be single shot, single melee attack, area melee attack, area shot, or burst.

Cannot fucking read

Man I hope Toybox allows altering the Conviction values, because I refuse to get fucked mechanically by a shitty alignment system

>>3805368
Expound

>>3805370
I'm aiming for the ending which requires NOT having Votary in any of the convictions
Which requires some schizo shit roleplaying-wise to avoid taking too many points in anything, and I find that too stupid to tolerate, and I'd rather just cheat them back down if I get dangerously close on one

>>3805362

When a normal person reads "different types of attack", they will assume it means swapping between ranged and melee as the game has been drilling it into your head that those are the main TYPES of attacks, with all the listed subtypes of attacks as examples categorised under the main two (since the game has a habit of over-explaining everything, usually for the better). The fact you get bonuses to both WS AND BS seems to further confuse the matter because it clearly indicates you're EXPECTED TO BENEFIT FROM AND THUS UTILISE BOTH.

Whatever, at least Owlcat had the foresight to add character respec. It's a good feature; exchanging words with a cunt like you only damages my impression on the game's mechanics but at least the damage is reversible

>>3805377
No, when a normal person reads the whole fucking tooltip and sees no mention of weapon slots, he will not associate it as such.
You retard

>>3805374
I played as a greedy RT mostly interested in profit and power but with some loyalty towards helping my allies. Ended the game with 2/2/2 without trying. So no votary.

>>3805240
>Pasqal is also a pretty bad character overall due to being an Operative
Grand strategist is super good and his unique tech priest shit makes him actually pretty good as a DPS character too, also the only character that actually wants to go into tech-use/logic. Jae is fine too, but I see no reason not to bring both.

I'm still mad that you're basically stuck with longlas as niper until MAYBE when you get eldar weapons. None of the SP rifles are worth the drawbacks.

>>3805377
NTA but I had absolutely no issue understanding what "different types of attack" meant on my first playthrough with zero knowledge of the RT system. You might be right that people unfamiliar with cRPG's might not have that impression initially but the tooltip is right there for them. It's entirely your fault for speed reading and its double your fault for getting upset when that's pointed out.

Man the build guides for brainlets are so fucking funny to me. It's always presented like some revolutionary thought and then they drop such magnificent wisdom as
>pyro executioner good
>more turn good
Even better when they straight up tell you to compromise roleplay and take specific choices for gear/bonuses because I guess that's what an RPG is about, just mechanics
What the fuck is the audience for these, like it can't be the usual mechanics autists cause those would do it themselves

>>3805734
People who want to play RPGs and win, but unwilling/incapable to actually engage the mechanics nor turn the difficulty down.

>>3805738
But... but winning at a videogame is already barely an achievement, and it becomes entirely worthless if it's effectively done by someone else for you. Do they think people are gonna laugh at them if they play on Normal or something? How would they even find out?
Or did they believe those tards who claim only the highest possible difficulty is "valid", whatever the fuck that might mean

Just got into Act 2 in RT, I got the main mission to visit my 3 planets. It seems I can also scout/chart paths to nearby areas. I don't really understand how this works so far but should I beeline for the first - second - third of my planets or am I free to explore everything on the way? Does the game somehow keep track of how long (how is it measured?) I took to reach the planets?

Most importantly, the three planets seem to be involved in the main quest, if I focus on them exclusively, will I trigger the end of Act 2 and lose the chance to explore the area?

>>3806225
You can visit planets in any order you like.
The 3 main quest planets scale to an extent, IIRC.
Assuming you did everything in footfal, including companion recruitment, if you want to recruit the next available companion, go to Janus first.
There is a certain event you have to do for the main quest that clearly triggers the transition to act 3, you can postpone it and explore everything possible first.

>>3806225
Do as much exploring as possible in this Act. There’s no time crunch and you’ll kick yourself for missing out on unique gear, colony resources, a metric ton of experience, and conviction increases by just skipping over everything that isn’t the main quest planets. This game heavily rewards a thorough approach.

>>3806225
>Does the game somehow keep track of how long (how is it measured?) I took to reach the planets?
It keeps track of time in a way, since your colony projects progress over time, but there are no specific time limits, only (I believe) act limitations - things you have to complete before progressing to the next act or they auto-fail. Generally it's best to clear everything you can before moving on, and the game is USUALLY obvious about what that point is, but if you want to be extra careful without spoiling the specifics just pop a save before big missions.
There would be no point in "normal" lime limits because Warp travel is fucky shit in-setting, and jumping between systems takes a variable amount of time... which is, actually, a potentially big part of the tabletop Rogue Trader but not so much here, usually, they kinda skim over that and act as if you insta-travel since otherwise they'd have to keep track of all sorts of weird shit like NPC getting old and dying while you're fucking around Koronus.
I think the only real mention of the possible fuckery happening is Argenta being lost in transit for a century real-time or whatever in her backstory. And I don't think the other incredibly fucky possibility (arriving before you departed) is ever covered, which is probably a good thing.

>want to play tabletop games with friends
>don't have friends or a table

>>3806387
>>3806383
>>3806228

Okay, thanks. I just hope I won't find out that I fucked Footfall residents because I explored the various points of interests on the way to Janus.

>>3806582
>el no sabe

Man, Heretic route is some goofy shit, I can't tell if I'm entertained or annoyed anymore

>>3806568
Unless you're 15-20 don't even try. I'm past my mid 30s and I promise you shit ain't worth the hassle required to organize it. And godfuckinghelp you whenever you lose someone in the group.
>roll20
Hope you like accents in broken engrish thick enough to require a +12 battleaxe to cut thru, being called a shitlord because you're racial profiling hobgoblins or homebrew erps.

>>3806615
Would you say it's chaotic?

>>3806622
Oh u
Yeah I would, both in good and bad ways, both in the sense of Chaos and chaos, both 'insidious and edgy (complimentary)' and 'lelrandum and edgy (derogatory)', hence my inability to decide if I'm enjoying it, laughing with it, laughing AT it, or rolling my eyes in exasperation

>>3806619
As a fellow 30+ I was gonna get all defensive and argumentative then I remembered the only people I sometimes get a game together with are the same people I did that with when I was in my early 20s and bothered to keep in touch with
Damn...

>>3806619
>I'm past my mid 30s and I promise you shit ain't worth the hassle required to organize it. And godfuckinghelp you whenever you lose
This is why you play miniature tabletops instead of gay RP shit

>>3806626
Yeah...

>>3806627
Situation A: friend brings his wife - most of the game is sidelined because we don't want to overwhelm her. She still gets overwhelmed. Please understand, she's not used to writing or the most basicass math because phones.
Situation B: the weekly(monthly) game gets delayed and postponed fifteen plus times, finally, half of the guys don't show up because work, family or whatever. Those that do end up drinking beer and watching a game instead.
Situation C: someone has a friend at work they want to bring in. It's a Goku, Gerald, some movie character or any combination of the three. Bonus points if they want to munchkin it but lack the game knowledge to pull it off.
Situation D: Someone wants to bring a gf or a girl they want to fuck. She either starts flirting with someone else, "in character", talks about wicca, tries to sell some crap, constantly talks about everything else with 40 minute toilet breaks that may or may not involve heroin or all of the previous.

tldr thank God I've got two kids I can play with on the regular lol

The way the numbers jump up so wildly is really funny to me
You just get to the point of one-shotting some enemies, then you drop by the next location and suddenly random ass dude takes several bolter rounds to the face and keeps fighting, and your decent armor is like wet tissues against him
Like I know they gotta keep things challenging for a long campaign but it feels so fucking stupid to me, especially since the source (meaning the 40k tabletop games) was really good about maintaining consistency in both power and lethality, and all the numbers were capped at pretty reasonable levels at the same time, and why they decided to go this fucking wild with all the numbers (wounds in the hundreds, stats that reach 300+ in a d100 system, etc)

>>3806669
>You just get to the point of one-shotting some enemies, then you drop by the next location and suddenly random ass dude takes several bolter rounds to the face and keeps fighting, and your decent armor is like wet tissues against him
That really only happens in Act 2 and 3, by the end of Act 4 you've unlocked full dakka spam and 1 turn every fight using the same order of abilities.

>>3806686
Considering Acts 2 and 3 are a decent chunk of the game that's not really much better

>>3806686
Act 1 is unironically most fun since you dont oneturn everything

I'm honestly planning to do a no-officer playthrough and see how it feels, hopefully it will feel more balanced

>>3806706
Not by much unless you give yourself even more restrictions, Officer just makes preexisting lack of balance more noticeable, it doesn't CAUSE the issues

>>3796223 (OP)
It's an RPG. You should be able to play any of their games on any difficulty with any party size. If you can't then it's pretty poor game design.

Man, I think Bladedancer is the first time I actually enjoyed playing a melee class in one of these.

>>3807151
Doing a big ass turn of like 5 deaths from above, extra movement from self hurt and walking through blood and then using escape artist to flip back half the map is always hilarious to me

>>3807156
Even more so when you lean into the self-damage and just bloat your stats with it, making all the penalties basically irrelevant (WS reduction is balanced out, movement reduction means nothing with Blood Rush, and having disgustingly high AGI has many benefits)
It's even good against big enemies, but whenever I see a room full of chaff with fuck all wounds I get downright giddy, since that can go on nearly indefinitely if they're positioned right

>>3807156
>>3807201
Say what you want but warrior does it better

>>3807238
>see people enjoying something
>"I'd better come in putting it down for no reason"
k

>>3807240
Oh I'm sorry, I assumed you wanted to talk about the game but don't have me interrupt your circlejerk

>>3807238
well since you wanna turn it into a competition for some stupid reason
>warrior
Yeah buddy call me back when you don't need a second archetype and an Officer to give you extra movement so you don't get cucked by the second enemy group

>>3807242
Oh yeah man, my bad, I forgot the only way to talk about the game is talking shit and doing some dick-waving over which of the broken options is the most broken in an already easy game

>>3807243
Dude. Your morale, your charge and fiftygorillion talents that let you attack without spending MP? Warrior has weaknesses but mobility seriously ain't one of them

>3807244
>i-it's not that i care
At least I didn't cut off my dick like you

>>3807248
>duh u must be troon
I accept your concession

>>3807238
I don't care if it's better, I enjoy it infinitely less

>>3807253
That's fair but it does suck how they still haven't fixed tags on a whole lot of their talents. I mean you'd assume [losing wounds proc effect] counts on every such instance that makes you lose wounds but no, it doesn't work even on exec abilities
Also why the hell does veil of blades not trigger their actual melee attack when parry is in effect?

>>3807253
No fun allowed, anon.

>>3807258
Yeah, the wording on a lot of things is all sorts of wack. BD isn't the only one where they neglect to specify only in-Archetype abilities can trigger something... which wouldn't be an issue if it were ALWAYS the case, but many other things have interactions with other Archetype talents/abilities, so it's not all self-contained.
And Veil of Blades in general seems a bit of a mess, I've seen some people swear by it but my testing just left me questioning why I'd ever bother with it over alternatives.

>>3807269
You get the idea then. I can't imagine why the attack from that is treated as a completely new instance that doesn't scale or use any on attack effects. I'd assume it would at least stack bleeding from exec or count for +resolve on kill or +momentum if you went for some santic MT build. But no, you don't even get versatility like you would from attacks triggered by shield block counter attack. Or how it's exclusive even to items. It would be pretty neat to use that herekek cloak that specifically says costs wounds to teleport and trigger some BD talents, and yet it doesn't. But it does work on exec or warrior or vanguard ones
Only thing that comes to mind and does work with second class is bladedance and DFA proccing versatility

They just need some TLC and love. They're strong enough but why can't we use daggers for example? Wouldn't be any more busted than two forceswords would it.

>>3807269
>questioning why I'd ever bother with it over alternatives
Unrelated to BD alone but man, it's my biggest fucking problem with the game. It feels like every Archetype, you get two or three abilities that are good and the rest are there as a joke
They had the excuse of inheriting trap/suboptimal options from an existing system before, this has nothing to do with the 40k ones, so what gives?

>>3807281
Tell me about it. Would be nice if you had reason to pick any of the two-three designated good origins. The rest don't even give you any RP value other than one, maybe two if you're lucky chat options that don't even matter any.

>>3807283
With Origins it's even worse, because most of them have only minor benefits that are often comparable with a few talents' worth and never really get build-defining, which would be fine if they stuck to the precedent, but then out they go with Psyker - which can downright overtake the Archetypes, and otherwise makes every single one better just by existing - and Arbitrator with unique abilities you cannot replicate in any way.
What they should do is run another balance pass, probably split each of them into sub-origins like Psyker and Arbitrator have, to provide both more flexibility and more mechanical impact, but... let's be real, it's the company that couldn't bother fixing a few classes in Kingmaker and Wrath even for the final definitive this time for real release.

>>3805734
>Even better when they straight up tell you to compromise roleplay and take specific choices for gear/bonuses because I guess that's what an RPG is about, just mechanics
that's my favorite shit
"yeah man be sure to take these drastically opposed options some of which fuck you over later so you get gear for one character because otherwise this entire build is ass"

>>3807291
I'd buy you a pint in agreement but you'll have to settle for related

>>3797742
>>3802160
You're lying
WotR is ballbustingly hard on the highest difficulty.
If you don't know how to play, it doesn't even matter what builds you use, you'll get crumped.

>>3807724
The trail before the mutant village is the only time you need tactics. Other than that it's just a few boss fights require spamming heal, only one of which is non-optional (Areelu).

Regarding the Heartless, what's the difference between choosing for it tobe your escort[/spoiler] or to protect trade routes? If I chose the first, would it actually accompany me in battle? Although I kinda want extra security and profit for my colonies and if that's the case I might lean into the other option (assuming that's what it does)

Regarding the Heartless, what's the difference between choosing for it to be your escort or to protect trade routes? If I chose the first, would it actually accompany me in battle? If yes then that's hella cool, although I kinda want extra security and profit for my colonies and if that's what the second option does then I might go for it

>>3809258
Escort is for space battles, yes. WIth the Dargonus colony event, you can now have your ship and two escorts. Trade routes has other bonuses, including getting Vindictus flamer now

>>3809258
>>3809261
To add to that, now it actually joins you (almost?) immediately so it's extremely useful for when you can get it; before it only got fixed up by Act 4 when you probably already dragged your ass through the incredibly annoying space battles early on with a shitty ship.

>>3809266
>>3809261

Damn. I actually might give in and take it as an escort, the flamer is not appealing to me since Argenta is slapping people left and right with a regular Bolter and the bonuses to colonies may not outweigh the coolness

>>3805224
RT difficulty is an utter shitshow. Unfair can be painful until you get to break the game in half via builds and gear around mid-late act 2. Afterwards, everything is hilariously trivial to the point of boredom. Until that happens though, essentially every single fight is decided before it even begins by the random shitfest that is the game's retarded initiative system and the round in which the OHKO snipers and stun grenade spammers come online.
You can alleviate this issue via Grand Strategist Officer (bonus points for Cassia) but if you don't, it's going to be an F8 adventure until you get a roll that doesn't delete 2/3rds of your team before you even get to act.

I think it's telling how "balanced" the game is that if you refuse to use the downright bullshit options the gameplay goes from snoozefest auto-win to teeth pulling.
But hey, that was their other games too, and it'll be DH as well for sure.

>>3811208
>refuse to use downright bullshit options.
Unless you botch every companion build or run a team of just operatives melee assassins, you end up with said bullshit.
Like, it's the reverse of standard crpg faire. More likely to get a bullshit build than a 'trap' one

>>3811217
I mean there's degrees of bullshit. A properly made Operative Sniper can delete even bosses in no time, and a decent Blade Dancer can easily clear most of the chaff, but both pale in comparison to, for example, what Cassia can do by virtue of being Cassia.
One can deal big damage, one can deal a lot of small damage, and one can blast half the map dead, shut down the other half the map, make sure the enemies can't do shit, give an ally stats in the hundreds and give them possibly two extra turns, all in one round.

>>3811219
Cassia is not even the strongest companion, but she is the easiest one even the biggest retards could figure out (just pick navigator talent and abilities for the navigator is an easy guide)

>>3811222
Then we're in agreement.

>>3811222
>Cassia is not even the strongest companion
Cassia is strong because a lot of what she does is passive and can give free turns to your other units. The aoe nuke is just a bonus. She is also unique and does a lot no other character, including the protag, can do. Any party without Cassia is strictly worse for it.

>>3811222
In terms of damage output alone? No, but in terms of pure utility she is by far the most valuable member. Hell, even in terms of damage she's top 5 easy.

>>3811305
Technically, Idira or Heinrix(aka psyker buyllshit) plus officer can be all you need to clear a map without said officer being cassia, but if she is there, it's even easier as you said.
She is the 3d strongest party member, plus she is not ever victim to perils of warp (rather she lowers them) and she is extremely valuable from the get go (aka, chapter 1), so you could say she is the most valuable member overall.

>>3811222
>she is the easiest one
How about kibbles? You quite literally need only two buttons she comes with and occasionally her morale.

>>3811427
Nah because if you don't realize how stupid good Blood Oath + Blood Rush are you might not break things with her as hard as you could
With Cassia if you just pick ANY Navigator powers you'll be good

>>3811435
One would have to be certifiably brain dead retarded to miss death from above

>enter the lex imperialis boss fight on the pirate ship
>argenta goes down in one turn before I even get control of her
>solomourne's dog is a piece of shit and so are his ballistic skills
>spend 50 hours methodically taking out everyone before moving in on the psyker
>kill him easily
>die to the chaos spawn constantly dodging everything and getting extra turns out the ass
>have to re-spend 50 more hours methodically taking out everyone before moving in on the psyker
Fuck's sake.

>>3811461
>lose another attempt because lmao my melee RT can't hit shit and after 30 rounds of abelard tanking and counter attacking that piece of shit chaos spawn gets a lucky shot
>restart
>finally get a good initative roll where most of my guys aren't in the ass end of the queue
>argenta still dies anyways but we're in good shape
>one of the bodyguards dodges solomourne's shotgun and rams himself into the forcefield thing, knocking him and dealing damage
>gets up, really slowly, I'm talking 15 second animation of him slowly sliding on the ground and then getting up
>runs again into the forcefield
>have to sit there for like 3 minutes until he dies
I already hate this DLC. I don't know why performance is chugging in this area too.

>>3811427
The real bullshit comes more from executioner.
Early on, the warrior heroic and charge may help more on map set-ups(or you can have cassia drag people around and move the m close so they are easy pickings)

>>3811537
That it does. And I don't agree that warrior falls off later if that's what you're saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFRa0KZsGhc&list=RDNdaGuxWit1s&index=27

>>3811562
Not at all.
There is nothing as hilarious as late game warrior with rock saw to boot.

>>3811576
Good man.

>it's another voidship depths/macro cannon chamber demon fight
Where the hell do I get enough navigator points to avoid this shit for good

>>3811624
Save guns and armor kits so your crew fights instead.

>>3811636
Nigga, your pet daemon?

>there are no good guys in 40k
>the distinguished military officer who's a grandfather of like a dozen
>"Uralon The Cruel"

>>3811456
Death From Above isn't missable, it's a core ability. What IS missable is what he said, and I've SEEN people miss it. Some people barely read the abilities, especially those that aren't available yet, so they skip over the realization Blood Rush turns Blood Oath into unlimited free movement points if you can kill the target to get Wounds back (or have some other method). Shit, I've seen people who don't realize just how good BD can get if you lean heavily into Wound increases and taking damage.

>>3811649
Anon, the "no good guys" refers to groups/factions, not individuals. There are COUNTLESS good people in 40k, even among big names. It just barely matters because the whole setting is designed to be a perpetual shithole for the funnies.

Iconokekism is so bad. Unless you choose the Dogmatic solution to every major choice (Rykad, Kiava Gamma, genestealers, the Eldar, Footfall, Pascal etc.) your so called "Utopia" turns into a total shithole. And it makes no sense to secede from the Imperium just because you make some minor humanistic compromises here and there.

>>3812241
Yes and no. It is a forced morality for newfags and secondaries and I say that without trying to shit on anyone. It's just so naive if nothing else. That said RT is set around the time imperium is split apart and girlyman isn't around just yet to pull 40k primaris muhreens out of his asshole so it looks as good time as any to carve out your kingdom.

NOTHING OF VALUE HAS BEEN LOST

>>3812241
>>3812252
I mean they fucked themselves with the decision to even have a fucking morality system. I don't know if they wanted to appease the idiots who need tags to tell them what option to pick, or what. There's a reason the 40k systems never had it, the closest thing being Corruption and Insanity, neither of which had anything to do with morality or ethics unless you really squint, or under some extremely specific conditions.
Without the arbitrary division, you could strive to have near-modern morality (despite some shit people say, not entirely unseen in-setting), you could succumb to the promises of power, you could staunchly hold to the rules, you could make stupid mistakes, you could just intentionally fuck shit up for a laugh if you feel like, all without getting some bullshit points for it - and without the need to arbitrarily add however many clearly labeled options to every major decision just because the system demands it, completely ignoring whether it makes any damn sense.

>>3812263
They should've just made the tags hidden and only matter for ending slides.

>>3812265
Or that, yeah, if they really wanted to keep track of that for The Spoiler Thing or just the slides. Would even give them freedom to be more flexible with the count, since you could need less for example "straight up being a fucking heretic" points to earn those slides than the "shining beacon of Imperial autism".
In the end it's having a transparent and mechanically rigid "alignment system" that fucks it and runs counter to narrative consistency and logic, as it always does, unless the game is meta-aware and leans into the mechanic of it. But this ain't Fable.

>>3812271
Fair's fair - fable had a sense of humor

>>3812278
I mean that's the thing, yeah? You have to do it right, and that kind of self-awareness and fully embracing a mechanic goes way smoother if you do it with humor.
Now if someone did a 40k game that was a throwback to those old goofier days with fully intentional grimderp mixed with just plain dumb, I could see them possibly pulling it off with gaining literal Heretic Points and having to tell increasingly bullshit lies to the Inquisition to get away with it or something, but you know. This ain't it. This is the (mostly) Serious Business 40k, and so that kind of alignment fuckery has no place in it, especially in a way that before the DLC added more opportunities could straight up prevent you from reaching the top mechanical benefit of any alignment if you dared to veer from the script.

>>3812294
Pretty much. You may come into 40k because muh facist rp, stoic heroism and emo bullshit but if you stay you usually stay because you realized a good chunk of it is taking the piss out of the worst situations imaginable. Gallows humor, ork slapstick, laconic wit and the sheer absurdity of potentially millions dying over a partial STC for a literal goddamn toaster lol. Bit of humor makes the world all the more believable and immersive as well.
And it's not like the setting of a rogue trader doesn't allow for that. You're not a freaking hero or some deep dark fantasy sorcerer, you're simply an opportunistic son of a bitch with a mandate to fuck around as long as you do it far away. And they made it a straight laced story about prophecies and shit.

Makes me less than enthusiastic about what they're going to do for DH.

>>3812241
I find it hilarious how iconoclasts get completely fucked in Void Shadows since being “merciful” to the gene stealers just causes them to laugh and multiply as the problem gets infinitely worse. You can try to quell one of their mutinies by giving them food and medicine and the leader just responds with the equivalent of “lol, thanks for the supplies, anyway still continuing this mutiny”.

>>3812252
>girlyman isn't around just yet to pull 40k primaris muhreens
man I have been lapsed since the '90s but every time I hear a new thing about new 40k it's more embarassing than the previous thing

>>3812241
Iconoclast is so jarrring because it’s a value system that has nothing to do with 40k. They should’ve never included it and instead opted for moderate to extreme xenophilia as the third option; provides a non-dogmatic and non-chaos aligned route while also being setting and theme accurate. Acts of compassion and treatment of individual officers should be a hidden flag system that affects how you’re viewed in certain parts of the expanse but otherwise have no effect on alignment. It baffles me they even included a radically merciful alignment since your capital world sports numerous hive cities and you run a prison planet plus a forge world. Giving beggars a few thrones doesn’t change the fact that the setting is inherently dystopian to comical extents. Oh great, Iconoclasts can allow the billions of garbage eating rag wearing miserable hivers the right to vote, please ignore that as a Rogue Trader you are even allowing your populace to live in hive cities at all rather than overhauling the whole planet’s infrastructure to something that isn’t the worst possible settlement to live in.

>>3812404
You can overhaul the colonies to be much better places to live through the colony events though.
Some of the ending slides even reflect that

>>3812404
>extreme xenophilia
>setting and theme accurate
Pick one

>rise up workers of the world
>tear down your hives
...you do understand you're running a business here, right? Right? What do you want for them instead, suburbs with with picket fences?

Seriously dude go play mass effect or something more up to your taste. This is giving me flashbacks of JJ Abrams reimagining Star Trek and suddenly lightsaber katanas among other crap.

>>3812391
I'm pre-laughing my ass off at the inevitable alpha-primaris-primaris muhreens so they can sell more minis.

>>3812404
Eh, I both agree and disagree. I think it's stupid because there is actually very little in the Imperial dogma that REQUIRES you to be a tyrant, it just happens due to the existing systems. But, in-lore, there are worlds where things are less shit to the point of being almost not shit at all (until, inevitably, Chaos incursion or some bullshit happens to ruin it). The dichotomy is false. Conventional modern morality is out of place, yes, but not entirely alien to the setting. And to be fair being a huge fucking hypocrite and spouting idealist bullshit while benefiting from forced labor and shit is on brand too.

>>3812410
Nah, there's exceptions to every rule. Not usually within the Imperium (not ones that thrive anyway) but that's where the dissension and secession kicks in. Which, by the way, I find people are hilariously misrepresenting. The fucking Severan Dominate has held out for longer than anyone thought possible, and those don't have the advantage of the travel to their whole sector being cockblocked by a warp storm.

As someone who autistically dove into the lore in the past, it bugs me a little when people get all up in their ass and act like there's ONE flavor of grimdark of uniform intensity rather than a whole patchwork of different levels of shit, with the shockingly non-shit planets serving at LEAST to bait catastrophe or provide further humor to how awful things are when they don't have to be elsewhere.

>>3812419
Please elaborate on those exceptions if your example is a state that simply replaced comissairs for ducal legates and emperor for duke. bonus points for not going interex
Also, you know
>2012 niche spinoff
>never mentioned anywhere else

IF you want to wax poetics about why iconoclast as a concept is nonsense let's talk about how that worked out for Horus or about the many warp plagues and conditions such as the plague of unbelief that actually transmit and thrive on chaotic emotions. Or imagine the idea of having conscientious objectors in perpetual total war economy like theirs.

IF you want to talk about why xenophilia is beyond retarded name one significant other race that's actually open to cooperation of any description. Eldar did their fair share of genocides and Tau have canonically sterilized entire planets worth of humans and even butchered as many to pay off the kroot for their merc work. Others aren't even worth mentioning.

>>3796223 (OP)
There's no "difficulty" in most rpgs it's just figuring out a critical mass of counter play.
Pathfinder it's buffs, AC, and counters to the constant debuff status applications like disease.

RPGs aren't where I go for difficulty, they are were I go for Role Play, which is mostly like Choose Your Own Difficulty Adventure

Sure I can metabomb the game with the most op broken jank builds but I have yet to come up with a role play concept for a Warlock Paladin in BG3 for example that doesn't make my inner RPG sensibilities die of edgelord cringe.

People that are always on about "difficulty" are low self esteem losers IRL and need that masochistic exercise from vidya to feel validated I guess.

If I want "difficulty" I can go to Elden Ring where it is difficult to remember some ridiculous boss flowchart with movement prediction and 110% panic roll tracking to counter all my shit including nearly perfect circle strafe tech.
I still roleplay there too via Fashion Ring.

>>3797883
I get physically tired when I think of how much mods (I spared myself from toybox) I had to use in WOTR to make it playable but it was mostly bubble buffs and cosmetic there.
Kingmaker was a lot better since COTW did so many good things in one nearly professional quality to match the rest of the game mod.

I don't think there are tedious buffs in RT so what are we talking about modding exactly?

>>3797883
NM reply it's late and I didn't read all of your post..thanks.

>>3812581
I think what OP means is that the game doesn't really encourage or enable good tactics.

>>3812427
>Tau have canonically sterilized entire planets worth of humans
Dawn of War is not canon
>and even butchered as many to pay off the kroot for their merc work
Source?

>>3812666
>Dawn of War is not canon
it is

>>3812666
Why Satan I didn't know you were interested in 40tism. And sure it is, good part of it at least. You got what, four officially published books by CS Goto that include, among other retardation, such pearls as blood angels in full terminator armor doing literal backflips.

>tau are the good guys
*Commander Farsight has entered the chat*

>>3812427
funny that you'd take issue with the Dominate as a one-time mentioned but bring up the Tau sterilization thing

Almost as funny as your shitty bait

>>3812717
>a post I disagree with
>it must be bait
no wonder people despise you 40k fags

Ladies, ladies. You're ALL retarded.
40k is a joke setting people started taking way too seriously, and you're perpetuating that mistake.
None of this would be an issue if people still understood ieverything is perpetually shit and nothing gets done because it's a comedy and writers properly leaned into that instead of whatever garbage it's turned into by now.

>>3812731
when you have a board comprised of /v/ and /tg/ do you really have any grounds to bitch when one of them shows up

>>3812729
https://youtu.be/QxYqX5nKKbE

>>3812729
I was second edition and I don't think it was primarily a joke. Like all those painted covers with the space marines in this defensive clump shooting out into some giant mostly unseen enemy surrounding them, completely doomed but fighting to the last, that is a fascist or heroic fantasy of honor that is being taken fairly seriously

For me the coolness of 40K was that the problems were all totally intractable by any government or ideology, the best example being the psykers being recruited and sacrificed to keep the emperor barely alive and the astronomican going. And you have all these annoying people tanked up on shitty novels now that envision the setting as something you can fix with a better attitude and some smart legislation. Turn that frown upside down shit, and the company starts writing stupid shit in with that in the back of their heads

>>3812410
>you do understand you’re running a business here, right?
This is precisely why the whole Iconoclast conviction just doesn’t work, most of the in game actions are conquering and amassing power for profit but you’re supposed to ignore this and pretend the billions of miserable souls being thrust under your boot just don’t exist simply because you opened up a few medical clinics on footfall or refused to execute pirates. It’s extremely disjointed and jarring.
>What do you want for them instead
How about literally anything other than one of the most intentionally dystopian city layouts imaginable? Are you a tourist?

>>3812834
Alright, calling it a joke wasn't quite accurate, but 'black comedy' is very much it. It's comical how fucking awful and inefficient everything is, and that is in itself the point. And you have the heroic fantasy, certainly, but the writing was always split between that and the overblown government/logistics inefficiency, widespread incompetence and corruption, bureaucratic nightmare, and oppression almost for the sake of it. And, for the most part, I very much got the impression THAT part was meant to be funny. And it feels like as time went on less and less focus was given to it, in favor of just focusing on cool people doing cool things (who those are and what they do depends on the writer)
As for the other point, while I agree, on the flipside you have people who equate systemic Imperium-wide problems (that are by design unsolvable) with personal- and local-scale attitudes and approaches and act as if decent people aren't allowed to exist and small-scale attempts at eking out a less shit existence are verboten. I mean yes, none of that will (should?) ever matter in the grand scale, but pretending it therefore has no place anywhere at all is a little goofy. Even at its more - for the lack of a better term - grimderp the setting has had some people trying to be/do better, if only to be disillusioned in the end when the world does not respond much if at all to their attempts.
I mean all that said, yes, the idea you can make something better last is silly. Not for any reason other than that it doesn't fit the tone. To use things mentioned before: here's a reason the Interex were destroyed, and there's a reason the Dominate is actually just as shit as the Imperium, there's a reason Tau were rewritten to be oppressive/cruel in their own way. If an objectively better option than the Imperium exists, something is lost. The "best you can get" will forever be that monolithic piece of shit.
Until they pull End Times 40k lol.

My input on the alignment shit is this:
It's hilarious that the game presents refusing to commit (i.e. reach Votary) in any of them as the greedy fuck out for personal gain option, that is to say, you know, being a Rogue Trader, but then also goes out of its way to paint it in a negative light and have certain people shit on you for doing it in favor of... falling to Chaos like an idiot, playing defender of the poor, or missing out on profit for the sake of rules like you're an Administratum drone.

>>3812837
Akshully I have registered address at hab 34/3-c section D green/purple, Hive Death Mire.

>most intentionally dystopian city layouts imaginable
You know we're not talking about Krieg or Detroit here?

>>3812845
Yeah. The options of being either a rogue or a trader in a game called Rogue Trader are surprisingly rare.

>>3812834
>For me the coolness of 40K was that the problems were all totally intractable by any government or ideology
I’m Johnny from Tartarus and I say kill ‘em all

>>3812874
If it were genuinely a satire of "fascism" or whatever anti-democracy word that 40K humanity exemplifies the enemies would all be fake and the human sacrifices unnecessary.

>>3812891
>chuds think it's muh space roman fascism
>it's actually communism
heh

>>3812871
I wouldn't even mind the relative lack of options so much if the writers didn't seem actively offended that I refused to diverge from the role I'm meant to play. Even fucking Abelard shits on the Glorious Reflection which represents that exact path, because in additionv to being self-centered it's presented as some junkie loser.

>>3812910
Just imagine for a moment a comissair game that we could've got instead. Pander to dogma blam schizos, pander to cainechillfags, they get to reuse some of their shitty management games. They get to blow smoke up your ass since you are a big deal and they get the perfect excuse to keep the story on rails since you're going with the attached regiment.

>b-but muh xeno waifu
Make it the usual forced marriage of convenience fighting against crons or nids or something. That works. Also abhuman companions.

>>3812913
Honestly at this point I'm convinced anything they touch would turn to shit, because they can't stop themselves from making the same few mistakes over and over on both narrative and mechanical levels. Worse still, since at least with both the Pathfinder games and RT my negativity was/is limited and there were/are some good parts, but every single thing I see come out about the upcoming Dark Heresy game is pure dogshit.

>>3812929
Yeah... Too bad they don't have the balls to make something less than conventional. Fire or aspect warrior PC for example. Hell, I'd settle for a necromunda hiver game.

>>3812929
>every single thing I see come out about the upcoming Dark Heresy game is pure dogshit.
Really? For me it's the opposite.
No momentum, scale of Alignment rather than 3 distinct paths and less overarching minigames/management that feel incomplete are great

>>3812677
>it is
It really isn't.
>>3812680
>You got what, four officially published books by CS Goto that include, among other retardation, such pearls as blood angels in full terminator armor doing literal backflips.
Black Library books aren't explicitly canon either, as GW has stated several times. The only things that are fully canon are Codices, and even then it's officially confirmed that they are contradictory on purpose.
>tau are the good guys
I never suggested they are, they are clearly Orwellian, but compared to everyone else (at least when looking the major/playable factions) they *are* the designated "good guy" faction. And as you mentioned yourself, Farsight Enclaves came from the Tau Empire, and are most likely the least terrible "place" in the 40k Milky Way galaxy outside of possibly Exodite worlds (if you happen to be a non-Commorite eldar)

>>3813334
Tau are trash
Imperium are the good guys
Hope this helps
>t. perpetually frozen in the 25-30 year old fluff and ignores whatever games workshop tries to do nowadays

>>3813421
-5000 social credit
+1 corpsecolonbar ration card

How does ROGUE Trader not have a ROGUElike mode like the Pathfinder games Beneath the Stolen Lands and the Midnight Isles

>>3813430
Because they did a fan poll on what people wanted in future content, and such a mode ranked nearly dead last, unfortunately. The majority don't care about such modes.

>>3812944
NTA
I would've rather dealt with more management and an inverse of the Vicky 2 trvke that the reason we abolished slavery was because we wanted the lowest classes to pay taxes, where Iconoclast is less humanist larping and more of a true rogue trader that's using xenos for profit where Dogmatic is the extermination of xenos and acquisition of their resources even if its a net loss due to some contrivance

>>3813430
Far less build options/party compositions and the leveling system (if it went to exemplar levels) means you could go through most of the shit an archetype offers anyway.
A skirmish where you have to go through shit with a party up to lv 36 when they have a couple mroe archetypes out may be decent.
Your progression would not spiral out of control as easily as it does in main game, most likely

>>3813430
What's the point? In the Pathfinder games, there was some enjoyment to be found in pitting different builds and party compositions against escalating challenge.
RT has barely enough viable options to cover multiple playthroughs, and most of those trivialize the game to the point the experience would be doing the exact same thing over and over.

>>3813421
>>t. perpetually frozen in the 25-30 year old fluff and ignores whatever games workshop tries to do nowadays
News flash, the Imperium has been the villain protagonist since always, so they've never been portrayed or intended as the "good guys"
Only some individual human characters can qualify for that descriptor, but not the Imperium itself, and that's been explicitly canon since Rogue Trader
>t. ex-40k tabletop player who first learned about it in 1995

born in 1995 more like it lmao

>>3815065
>that's still a 30 year old
Fuck you time.

I missed (somehow, I have no fucking idea how, quest is probably bugged) Marazhai's belongings quest (Path of the Drukhari) and decided to toggle it as completed in the editor. Are there any immediate consequences for doing the quest, for example during Yrliet's trial that I avoided by cheating it in afterwards? Don't want to find out I bricked my save because I have one flag checked but not other ones (my companions are already pissed at me for not refusing to punish Yrliet). Normally I wouldn't bother but he's probably going to be a nuisance on board and I wanted to have something to hold over him (assuming it would work, given what race he's part of)

>>3815105
Any flags related to that would be for his romance ,if anything

>>3815108
And nothing of value was lost

>>3815108

Right, thanks. Which reminds me: the quest Critical Tasks is also reporting as failed, even though I think I've done everything I could (lever > vox > system > access PC) and I could've sworn the quest was marked as completed at some point. Hell, I even have NomOS with me. Toybox reads "Hidden_Fail OddietiesInTheDiary_quest", whatever the hell that means

>>3815125
It's because you did not trigger some things before coronation. Not that critical

>>3806568
I recommend a big spool

>>3815138

Considering I just had an encounter with a Tech-Priest who broke into my ship and the conversation we had with NomOS, I reckon I'm doing something right. I don't particularly understand why the hell the quest is marked as failed, it's... irritating. Triggering my OCD perhaps. Or FOMO. Well, whatever, I don't want to spoil myself further

>>3796223 (OP)
She literally betrays you and your entire party to the Drukhari. She knows the Drukhari will torture you in ways impossible to imagine. They literally have designed an entire civilization around finding the most efficient and effective way of extracting as much pain and anguish as mortal souls and flesh are mathematically capable of producing.

And she gives you to them. Because she literally does NOT fucking care about you. At all. She's an Eldar. She does NOT care about you. You are a useful tool to her, but just an animal. To her, your life has the moral weight of a mildly ugly animal.

She's literally a monster and you are ignoring all of that because you're horny.

So she's right about you, ultimately. You really are just a pointless animal. Stupid and disgusting. So using you to search for the remnants of her destroyed world and scattered people is giving your life more meaning and purpose than you even deserve. Discarding you in the Drukhari dumpster is merely optimizing your utility after she no longer has any more use for you.

Her mistake was in foolishly believing her Drukhari cousins wouldn't take her, too.

But make no mistake, just because she's thrown down the toilet in Commoragh right behind you does not mean she's redeemed.

>>3797055
The officer doesn't break anything. They transfer their own two action points to someone else. At no point is the team getting extra action points to spend. You have no idea what the term action economy even fucking means. Shut your dumbass up, no one wants to hear you parroting talking points you heard on /tg/ that you didn't understand about games you know nothing of.

>>3815271
Wrong on all counts. But keep seething, it's funny.

>>3815271
nta but officer does allow for some perfectly strong solo cheese as well, especially now that pets are a thing so he can benefit on lots of his abilities by throwing them on his birb or dog. Persistent Fel on attack works with resolve, resolve works with temp wounds and or tactical advantage. And both of those work with some really strong items. Go dualwield or shields, use free attacks from either vanguard or mt (or even arb) on your second kit hard hitting 2h and he's perfectly capable of clearing everything on his own.

>>3815271
a)The officer buffs just by giving a turn and can provide multiple more on top of that
b)Many abilities are fueled by doing extra actions/attacks, so you let the strongest unit scale even faster
c)Multiple boosts exist from getting an extra turn in itself
d)Officer heroic hour is not just an extra turn out of order, is an extended turn that allows for a far more impactful round from your strongest unit
e) Officer who went GS also always goes first, which means your strongest unit or best debuffer or whatever also goes first. I assume you agree that is strong

This is not even touching early officer days when the same unit could get multiple free turns in one round, Officer had Seize the Initiative for more free extra AP at the start of the fight and companions could use 0 AP attacks during turns they were not give AP even, just movement points (making Move Move Move even more potent).

Discounting the impact officer has by an oversimplifying it as ' plai AP exchange' betrays dishonest argumentation or plain old retardation

>>3815271
>the officer doesn't break anything. They transfer their own two action points to someone else. At no point is the team getting extra action points to spend.
Taking two action points from a weaker party member and giving them to your strongest party member sounds pretty strong by itself.

>>3815271
>At no point is the team getting extra action points to spend.
>What is Finest Hour
>What are any of the items and bonuses that improve Bring It Down

>>3815324
Multiple archetypes get ults that give them extra turns. Operative and Bounty Hunter get extra / free attacks. Soldier already has Run And Gun and it's not even an ult. Warrior gets to run around hacking and slashing for free with their ult. Bladedancer's whole thing is being able to attack a billion times in one turn. Officer being able to give someone else an extra turn isn't a big deal. It's literally not more than warriors, operatives and soldiers can already do for themselves. So in that sense, Officer is exactly like the others in terms of their impact on action economy. There is no free lunch. There is no free extra ultra action economy happening but only if you have an officer. That jus isn't what's happening at all. Mathematically or emotionally.

You're just wrong. You're just fucking wrong, anon. Fucking deal with it. Quietly.

>>3815321
Imagine if you didn't have that weaker party member in the first place. Imagine if, instead of a weak party member, you had another actual party member. Like. Instead. In that slot. Instead of the weak one. Instead of that weak one, what if you had a strong one instead.

Understand? You'll let me know if you're still struggling with this.

>>3815353
>You're just wrong. You're just fucking wrong, anon. Fucking deal with it. Quietly.
This, but apply it to yourself. Jesus Christ you're obnoxious, refusing to even read people's responses and repeating yourself like an idiot.

>>3815353
Are you even capable of not acting like a child?

>>3815318
That's how a team-based tactics game works, anon. Everyone works together as a team, using their specific tools and abilities, to make sure that things get done. You need the warrior to hit really hard and be really tanky and go over and kill all those guys? Well, he needs some help to do that. One guy's role on the team is to be that help. That helper isn't the one who has the toolkit to be able to run over and kill all those guys with someone helping him, though.

That's how teams work. This isn't complicated. It really is not.

>>3815272
Weird. It looks like you're the one wrong and seething. Maybe if you weren't so obvious about it when you project, you wouldn't be seething so often. But then again, you could just try not being wrong instead.

>>3815358
Show us all how it's done.

>>3815359
And since the game is not perfectly balanced, some guys contribute a lot more.
In some cases, do it too well to the point of trivializing other aspects of the combat mechanics.
Which is what officers do.
>Abloobloobloo all characters do shit
Embarrassing

>oh neat a thread discussing a game I enjoy is quite active
>I wonder what they're talking about
>it's two retards crying and shitting
I really don't know what I was expecting

>>3815355
Exactly as strong as your strongest party member? That's very rare, even if you can create an exact copy of the character (rare enough in itself due to things like varying character stats, unique bonuses/classes etc) you have to gear them as well, and it's rare for games to give you two exact copies of whatever the best gear is. Then there's the gameplay itself, for example in a game with an initiative system unless you can guarantee both characters will act sequentially it's a far bigger advantage to act earlier in the turn than later, so even two characters with the exact same statlines and gear might not have the same power. In almost every system doubling the efficacy of your strongest character is going to be a bigger advantage than filling a slot with a second character, even one who is almost as power.
There's also the factor of versatility - an officer being able to give extra actions to other characters can enhance whoever you need at the moment, where making a carbon-copy character is obviously limited to whatever their role is.
>what if instead of that weak one, you had a strong one instead
Funnily enough, officers are strong characters, though.

>>3815366
It's really funny how he argues 'strong character instead of weak character' when the officer essentially takes a strong character and creates 2.5 of them

>>3815368
It's not exactly a difficult concept to understand, either. It's especially funny considering that this whole discussion started over his disagreement about 'action economy' when this has pretty much always been a factor in action economy systems.

>>3815046
The imperium are the good guys, and the bad guys are every xeno race + Chaos. It's quite simple, you see. You sound heretical, face the wall please.
>t. picked it up in '97 when Final Liberation came out

So there's no point in playing the game because it has no challenge?

Warhammer 40k is a terrible setting for a CRPG. I'm sorry but it doesn't lend itself well for a proper narrative that fits or role-playing. It works better as faction role-playing in a strategy or a full-on action game. But CRPG? Nope.

>>3812845
Agree 100%

>>3815590
If that is the only reason you replay CRPGs and first run was smooth for you, sure. I guess

>>3815596
I think it's great so long as it's based on the TTRPG books, which Rogue Trader is. Doesn't do the best job at adapting it, though. So long as you avoid space marine focus, it can be great.

>>3815599
Who said anything about replaying?

>>3815596
Every ttrpg it has except Deathwatch, fuck Deathwatch disagrees, but I like the confidence

>>3815596
A vast setting with some of the richest lore relative to almost any other piece of media is bad for roleplaying because...???

>>3815746
Because the lore is not meant to be taken seriously and the scale of bullshit that happens keeps invalidating any stakes.
There is no individuality, only factions and subfactions, and you can't stray from anything otherwise it's "against the lore".
Powercreep makes for awful storytelling and gameplay. No balance or cohesive stories of rise to power.
Most characters and factions are painfully one dimensional.
Extremism is the only pathway, and constant war with set antagonists makes you very limited in what you can do.
You can't have any meaningful impact on the world because everything is either already established or is contradictory to the nature and appeal of WH40K.
The grimdark extra nature of the setting makes it incompatible with drama or emotional storytelling or even small-scale plots. WH40K is just pure crazy lore and powerfuckery, storytelling and characters are not it's core appeal or its environment. Characters serve as myths more so than actual characters with arcs and such.

I'm not shitting on WH40k or anything, I just don't with it's a compatible setting for the CRPG genre. Baring combat builds, I mean what else can you play or role play as? It's just military guys and super-powered military guys. That's why it works best as wargames and strategy games and faction focused rather than character focused.
You can't even allow for interactivity with the world or characters due to the draconian social structures and laws/effects of everything. You HAVE to be a specific niche member of a factions to do even basic things in a lore appropriate manner.

The fantasy isn't creating your own character, it's playing as an established character. Which, again, it's not the sort of role-playing that CRPGs house.

>>3815757
>Because the lore is not meant to be taken seriously
... if you are trans

>>3815757
You started strong but your finish is nonsense. Slasher combat heavy campaigns or heavy on rails laser focused modules and campaigns were and remain a staple of both crpgs and rpgs proper.

>there is only war
It's in the tagline. But that not saying there's no room for politics, exploration or crime.

>>3815769
>Slasher combat heavy campaigns or heavy on rails laser focused modules and campaigns were and remain a staple of both crpgs and rpgs proper.
But only if they offer enough role-playing, also consider the vast majority of crpgs, they are not about slashing campaigns but a call to adventure.
The only games that are not like that are ARPGs and non-narrative or role-playing focused games, only mechanically comabt wise "rpgs".

>>3815769
>>there is only war
>It's in the tagline. But that not saying there's no room for politics, exploration or crime.
But because "there is only war" everything else is underbaked and ultimately fails to matter because it only loops back to war and war only. And no mystery or politics or exploration can amount to anything other than the war effort, which will never ever ever change or have the power standing change, because all is discarded for the sake of the meta of forever war and keeping the lore. It's just too rigid. Also politics does jack shit in the setting.

>>3815856
>You started strong but your finish is nonsense.
Can't fault your consistency but your conclusions are still nonsense. Murderhobo was and remained a huge draw and that's great fun (even if not the main focus) to lots of people. As is exploring and collecting shit, and there's sure as hell a lot of weird and forgotten shit around m42 to find or loot. Politics are everything in the setting to the point it's downright expected to see a pissing match between the different organisations or parties. Nobles, primarchs with daddy issues, admech and their shit, different colonels, commissars vs officers, navy vs army, church vs bureaucracy, bureaucracy vs bureaucracy, sms vs sms vs inq vs sms vs inq vs bureaucracy...

>everything else is underbaked and ultimately fails to matter
Whether or not it matters that's up to how the story is presented and how much each individual player feels drawn in. Making generalist statements like that is just you getting off on your own farts.

>>3815759
wow anon what a zinger

>>3815757
But how do your arguments hold up when Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Only War, Black Crusade and Deathwatch exist and have at least at one point had non-negligible playerbases

>>3815927
they dont

>>3815929
Oh we're doing it like that
Well I guess none of the arguments exist either

>>3815930
you dont exist
layperson

>>3815942
Pasqal shut the fuck up and go back to work

>>3815943
request denied
present penis for inspection and sanctification

>>3815902
I never said murderhobo was bad, you are not understanding me. I am saying the setting isn't well suited for an RPG. Because there is only one way to play it and only one role, and a static world. It's too tethered and it's scale and world-building is incohesive and incoherent, because it never was meant to house narratives that are character based or storytelling as a whole which is a pillar for role-playing. Barring of course, like I said before, things like factional rping and arpgs (mechanical).
>Making generalist statements like that is just you getting off on your own farts.
Oh shut up, I can literally claim the same about what you wrote. Don't be an ass for no reason.
>>3815927
How is that relevant to anything at all

>>3815951
Alright, maybe there is miscommunication here so let's clear the vox. What about a setting based on King Arthur then, how's that for? Or say ancient greece? Japan? Muh vikings? Even less magic or playable races, even tighter focus and those "settings" inspired not only a good chunk of all game rpg settings but also actual mythos and religions.

My point is if the story is interesting and if actual people are interested in it you can make a post office crawl work.

Grey Knights bros...
how could this happen...

>>3816013
marzipan bussy

>>3815596
That makes no sense. Like I don't even understand the premise you're trying to work from. What do you even think a roleplaying game is?

>>3816020
I was too enraged and bitter that marzipan got us into this mess to spare him. I murdered my way through Commoragh to get to him and my only regret is that I didn't have enough time to make his death suitably painful.

Maybe in another life if I were a top I might find it entertaining to bitchbreak / brat tame him, but I can't imagine it, really.

>>3816054
>i don't like it so you shouldn't like it either
that anon is suffering from the gay

>>3815951
>How is that relevant to anything at all
It's relevant because all of those (except deathwatch) prove that there are many more ways to play it, with many more roles, dingus

>>3816013
I think Ordo Xenos SUCKS
record that for the annals of the Inquisiton, please

>>3816081
No, that's the same twelve year old who's been shitting up the Wrath thread with nonsense. It's a sheltered little incel boy. Probably got Christian parents, homeschooled, no real exposure to develop proper socialization / interaction skills. The whole nine yards.

arguing on the internet is the only social interaction he gets. To him, belligerent argumentation is the only way he knows how to interact with people. It's the only way he's ever experienced. So everything's always made into a contrarian reflexive reaction, a tedious debate between two sides.

He doesn't even know that calling people stupid... or gay... isn't how debate works. So of course he gets frustrated when his "let's have a formal debate with no decorum or intellectual honesty" doesn't work.

This is why homeschooling is child abuse. Kids need socialization to develop properly or they turn out like that: just obnoxious, stupid and bigoted.

>>3816114
You haven't been in vrpg very long if you don't know the issue with every shitty poster is that they're a humanzee slav

I love her so much.

>>3815974
Yeah, but I'm saying Warhammer 40k as a setting isn't suited for the sort of stories that lend themselves to RPGs. It's very much a lore-first and wacky shenanigans kind of setting. It's appeal, rules and world-building are not very compatible with those sort of campaigns. That's why it works best as controlling factions, rather than parties or singular characters. And like I said, you can't have anything meaningful happen and all stakes are kinda trivialized. You don't create a character who joins factions or rises to the top, you play as a set role already established of an already established faction with established personalities and ideologies. There is little player input in role-playing an individual, only a faction (or member of).
The nature of the world as well is all about extremism, and dogmatic draconian beliefs and deviation is always wrong or inferior, it doesn't give you leeway to control or create anything. The lack of nuance as well doesn't lend itself to good storytelling or role-playing, because you have a much restricted world and limited creative toolset. You can try but it's against the ethos of the setting and also why bother with WH40k if you are not going to do WH40k stuff. That's why I think it's not a good setting for CRPG.
>>3816110
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. You are taking "role" too literally, I'm talking about role-playing in the CRPG sense.

>>3816054
Different types of role-playing, and I'm talking about the CRPG sort. The one you expect from Owlcat or any other game dev.
Not the "play as a Space Marine, do Space Marine shit", but rather the "Choose what you want to be, and shape your experience".

The fantasy of adventure and a grand narrative, not the fantasy of going to war as this or that army or group.

>>3816389
Nah, that's just low imagination and simissing personal successes and smaller scope events outright.
Disregarding even RT which I personally feel worked as a crpg, you can very easily create a story about the stakes in one sector and you rise through the ranks of inquisition, exploratirs, navy, etc if you want to.
Even if the universe is fucked, bringing a 100 year peace to a small corner of the galaxy is worth fighting for and easily resonates with a player

>>3816398
Maybe I am focused too much on big picture stuff, but at the same time WH40K doesn't strike as the sort of "making things better" arc setting.
Anyways, I guess we just have different opinions. I don't think it's not possible to make a good CRPG out of the setting, I just think its too hard to do so and will be bogged down by the larger universe and lore.

>>3816412
It feels the big meta picture dominates your mind too much.
Like, when you span multiple galaxies, there are planets that have such distinct cultures and are so distant from standard problems, you are hardly dragged down by Chaos or most aliens. and the standard imperium issues.
A knight world may end up tyrannid food or chaos infested in 1000 years , but your character could bring safety and order for the next 1000 while a civil war breaks out.
You have your lasguns, your servitors, your psykers, your imperium creed, some cultists thrown in and it would work borderline like a tech fantasy rpg.

>>3816228
I dunno, I don't think he smells like an eastern european. It's the stench of sheltered Midwest Christian boy, honestly.

>>3816394
Well, in that case I think you can resolve your problem because it's actually an issue with your misunderstanding.

It sounds like what you're looking for is a completely free-form sandbox experience in which you construct your own narrative, one in which you aren't really bound by the limitations of any kind of plot or technical limitations of the game itself.

In that sense, you are just incorrect that any crpg can do that for you currently, since AI just isn't up to the task yet. There are no CRPGs that do what you seem to want. None. Maybe Minecraft if you think that's an RPG. Or Avorion or V Rising or something like that. But those are not CRPGs. Those are survival simulators.

Rogue Trader is a specific story that takes place in a specific setting. This setting has very specific lore about what's happening in the galaxy and what it's like to live as such people. It's not open for interpretation or anything like that. It's not a sandbox, either. You're already given an absolutely unique degree of freedom because you're playing as a Rogue Trader.

If it feels restrictive and confining to you because of how absurdly dogmatic and extreme the draconian behaviors of people in the Imperium seem to you... that's because it's true. That's because it's a horror setting. The entire point of W40k is the horrors of fascism and religious dogmatism. Like. That's the explicit POINT of the entire setting.

>>3816456
NTA, just butting in because you've mentioned sandbox RPGs, but I've lately been enjoying playing Din's Legacy which is a sequel to both Din's Curse AND Depths of Peril+Zombasite (though maybe it's not very deep in the direction Depths&Zomba's political simulation, I dunno yet). I feel I've finally discovered a Soldak game that isn't just conceptually super ambitious but also fun instead of "fun for a bit but also kind of sucks".

>>3816468
There's like... no informational sites about it in any search results. It's only reviewed as mostly positive on Steam. I'm not payin' $20 for what looks like an extremely clunky and primitive indie hack and slash from some random guy who's made a few "kind of sucks" titles in the past and this one's rated mostly positive.

>>3816456
I'm not talking about a sandbox experience. I am not new to the rpg genre either.
I'm explaining why philosophically and design-wise the setting is countereffective to the sort of character focused role-playing you get from crpgs.
Even as a Rogue Trader, you are still operating under the strict structure of the setting both in rules of the lore and in spirit. The outlandish and zealot doctrines are, yes, part of the appeal. But I am saying it's due to that you don't get much leeway to role-playing. There isn't much player freedom under strict regimes and structures, and there is only one mentality and philosophy that exists. Alternatives are just jokes (not literally) and are completely and intentionally worse to highlight the nature of the setting.
It works as a wargame, not as a character-story-RPG. You are bound by specific lore that isn't made for role-playing, and by the mentality of "being WH40K" so you only really get to play in one way and one style. The WH40K style. That's why even shit like family or friends or romance or death or money or politics or civilization or culture or mystery or whatever is so trivial or secondary, because it's all about the core tenets of everwar and extremities. There is not much even fleshed out or well-thought about all the factions and subfactions, how they might work or differ or what philosophies they follow and to what end, because they all just serve the same function of "new cool threat/army" to play as/against.
You can't even have fun co-existence and delve into politics or ideological debates. Because it's all killing one another.
Which is FINE but not really compatible with the core appeal and design of CRPGs.

>That's because it's a horror setting. The entire point of W40k is the horrors of fascism and religious dogmatism.
That's just wrong. It's not horror nor about the horrors of fascism and dogmatism, but rather an exploitation and indulgent fantasy. It's maximalist in scope, design, and ideologue.

>>3816437
But it's hard to give a shit about that when there is bigger and worse shit happening right next door. Or when all that ever happens is xeno/chaos invades a bumfuck world again.
And do any of the games even delve into the aspect of differing cultures and potential storylines? Far too many are just the same shit repeated. Which once again, I don't think works for a progression of events for a hero's journey sort of rpg.
Like at what point are you talking about a RPG, and not just a linear action or strategy game?

>>3816490
If you liked being a king managing a kingdom's development while adventuring to protect your kingdom from threats foreign and domestic... why is that suddenly different just because your kingdom is now a few planets and the threats use laser guns?

>>3816490
>That's just wrong.
No, YOU are wrong.
>It's not horror nor about the horrors of fascism and dogmatism, but rather an exploitation and indulgent fantasy.
That's a malformed sentence. It isn't clear that even you understand what you're complaining about.
>It's maximalist in scope, design, and ideologue.
Ya, the stylization of the setting is rococo baroque. That's why the dialogue is so florid with elaborate titles and adjectives. That's the part of the setting's design. Just like you don't hear ebonics / urban slang and references to memes by NPCs in Kingmaker.

>>3816496
>>But it's hard to give a shit about that when there is bigger and worse shit happening right next door
That's really a you, problem.
Like, the same logic appleis in real life and peopel deal with it differently.
And while the definition of RPGs is something we shitpost about constantly, being actively part of the story, choices and consequences and mechanics supporting that is largely a core of it and nothing in WH40k prohibots that unless you have a doomer 'all is fucked anyway eventually, who cares you made things better when in 80000 years all is food or entropy'

>>3816481
>what is pirating and buying if you liked it
Din's Curse is very positive if you really wanna buy something and are against pirating, it even has a discount for some reason now. I've heard some say Curse is better but they might have not played much of Legacy.

Here's basic Soldak game premise (Kiwi's Underworld is an exception and I haven't played Drox Operative 1-2 yet, though I've heard it's basically Soldak fantasy but in SPACE):
A Diablo-like gameplay.
Pick a class, generate a region the session will play in.
Your character is dropped in in the middle of a town/village/number of huts. Beyond it are the randomly generated wild lands with dungeons (a big dungeon in Din's Curse).
In Din's Curse you are dealing with the Dungeon plaguing the town. Didn't play it but if later games are any indication there might be a Nemesis (boss monster troublemaker) sitting in it and generating trouble so while you are clearing the first floor, he organizes a group of monsters in a band, this band starts regularly sending raids into the town trying to destroy it and kill all the inhabitants, including merchants and quest givers. Or he might send an assassin. Or an NPC turns out to be a traitor and stirs trouble of his own. Quests are generated on the fly, taking into account some of the starting conditions. CONT.

>>3816538
Depths of Peril and Zombasite are like that (maybe Zombasite more so because it came after both) but you are now not just a random hero but a leader of a "clan" and there are other clans of "heroes" in the game wanting to save the world and FUCK YOU. In Depths of Peril they are all in the same town as you, in Zombasite they get they own minivillages. They also recruit and lose heroes (all heroes are immortal in Depths as long as their clan crystal isn't destroyed, they die with it), go out in the wilderness and solve quests YOU are trying to solve (you can even see them in the same location battling monsters though some of it is most likely an offscreen simulation). They also war with each other and you, make deals, trade and broker alliances. So in Depths of Peril the main quest becomes not to save the location but win over others: destroy them all, make an alliance with all or some of them and become the strongest clan in the alliance or just be part of the surviving alliance (partial victory condition). Zombasite I think adds another victory condition where you can be the clan that solves all of the region's randomly generated problems. The ri

Din's Legacy seems to have both the politicking of the Zombasite and Perils (maybe not as deep, haven't played it extensively) AND the problem solving of the Curse. But now as regions are randomly generated random victory conditions also set in, you might be dropped into a region with or without clans, you might be given a town to solve its problems or you might be dropped in the middle of a dungeon and told to GIT OUT. You might pick exact scenario you want to play later if you win it after it was randomly generated. Legacy also looks slightly prettier then all of them and the dev learned how to generate a ground that's not completely flat. Slightly CONT.

>>3816541
Don't expect some super strong story and characters but these games just do something I didn't see others try. In one of my games in Zombasite, the forces of evil (generic, trademark) sent an assassin to murder my clan members. As I rushed to a portal I came just in time after he broke one of my gates (Zombasite adds gates to your stronghold you can find or buy and then set so that mobs and enemy NPCs first attack those instead of immediately getting to murdering your dudes) and killed him with a help of a nearby NPC, quest solved, the town is saved. BUT then I got a timed mission saying that the aformentioned NPC was poisoned by a blade of a vile assassin and that if I don't go to an unknown dungeon in an unexplored region to gather ingredients for an antidote the NPC will die.

>>3816546
And in Drox Operative, you are a space ship murderhobo/member of Galaxy-spanning PMC with no sense of right and wrong who does quests and maybe helps one of the computer-controlled space civilizations that play 4x as the player plays Diablo.

The omnissiah knows all
Comprehends all.

>>3816499
It's not about the management aspects or being in a position of power.
>>3816505
At this point I think you are just refusing to see logic and are being petty. WH40K is NOT HORROR. It's NOT CRITIQUE. It's halfway satire, and dark fantasy exploitation. It's grimdark, not trope subversion or deconstruction.
>stylization
It goes beyond that. It's the entire core of the setting, not just the visuals and dialogue. It's thematic meat IS It's excess. Not just it's dressing.

>>3816638
Does he know and comprehend why the fuck Owlcat is making a Kroot romance in Dark Heresy, because I'm stumped

>>3816506
You say that, but stakes and actions being meaningful is something that many stories need to rely on. If you present them as such but within your world they aren't, then you are breaking your own logic and immersion. It's just an inferior story, because a version of it could exist where it does matter.
And more importantly, WH40K incentives and built it itself on the fact that these things don't matter. That's why, again, I think it's not compatible.

As for the RPG thing, where do you draw the line between an RPG experience and just playing as a character?
Do you go and play something such as Space Marine, then go it's a role-playing game because I am playing as the role of a Space Marine?
We understand the being a RPG is about certain set mechanics, and player control in shaping the experience. It's a design philosophy, and not a literal statement. And WH40K doesn't prohibit that, I never once said that or implied it. I just said that the rules and logic of the world, and it's core ethos are countereffective for role-playing, because they follow four important unchanging maxims:
1. It's about the factions, not the individuals
2. The war is static (unending, with an unchanged power balance, and unchanged progress)
3. The factions and world are static
4. They will never be true stakes or meaningful change due to scale, rigidity, and vague open nature of it's scale and supernatural elements

Tragic: Local man refuses to believe anyone might have more imagination and creativity than he does.

>>3816696
So all settings and franchises are equally great for making an RPG. There is nothing that sets them apart for better of worse.
So settings and franchises have no specific appeal or identity, and artistic proofs don't exist.

If you truly believe that, then it's ultimately a difference in opinions between us. But don't be disingenuous, and harp on me because I am giving more thought to the setting artistically and functionally.

>>3816696
Not sure if it's actual mental illness or he just shitbaiting for attention by this point

>>3816734
I could say the same to you, since even the most basic of ideas is beyond your comprehension for some reason. Not sure if blind emotional fanboyism or just ego-driven contrarianism.

>>3816680
You dismiss stakes that happen on a smaller scale even if they can influence lives and prosperity on millions ,if not billions.
Tons of things important to the world of WH40k happened due to specific individuals even on macro scale, their is no reason it cannot be so on a smaller scale.
Unending conflicts existing and that not making it good for an RPG is a position that is nowhere near widespread. In fact, it's kinda retarded. Heck, it kinda encourages rping in some aspects . And again, you could bring peace to a corner of a galaxy. You keep shutting that off cause the meta WHOLE UNIVERSE aspect is one you cannot personally let go.

It's like saying Alpha Protocol is not a meaningful RPG cause Hot and COld wars will keep existing and War companies will keep stoking the flames. So not use good old reality for an RPG.

>>3816782
I am talking exclusively from a CRPG design aspect.
You fail to understand the difference between operating in an established universe and a specifically crafted one. You fail to understand the concept of escalation and audience's investment. You fail to understand the basic arguments I am making. It's not about reality or realism, it's about narratives and how they reinforce immersion and reactivity and facilitate proper role-playing beyond adherence to rigid structures that are fundamentally based on superficial factionalism. If you have shit world-building, then obviously it is going to affect any story or narrative or tidbit, ESPECIALLY if you are going to try and make a smaller scale "living world" experience out of it. Which is exactly what RPGs try to do.

You are unable to understand the purpose of utilizing established universe and effects of relativity, or have piss poor cognition.
You probably have such dogshit standards too, and subpar IQ. 'Cause your arguments are just petty passive-aggressiveness and none of them address points. Genuinely "but I had breakfast today"-tier.

>>3816677
Because the devs are homosexuals and didn't make a female catachan for that musclegirl jungle poon

>>3816795
The standards you set for CRPG design are nowhere near universal, and and even those can be applied to a relatively smaller scale in the setting which as established, has areas where the macro state of the universe is not their constant reality.
Ther is a possibility of a planet reaching fucking heat death before Chaos, Tyrranids or whatever embroil it in standard conflict.
The fact that standard CRPG stakes, investment and player influence in such a game does not count because of the state of the universe as a whoel is not well reasoned, it's you literally acting liek a petulant fuck who cries' who cares, it's all fucked 'anyway. Which, again, has not been a core element from a design perspective or from the audience perspective (as a prerequisite to insert themselves in to the world) in any way in the history of the subgenre.

You have not in any way, shape or form put forth a convincing argument that it is or should be so.
You start from 'Warhammer is shit for crpgs' and try to come up with shit many of which could be applied to multiple settings used for many CRPGs (easiest one would be any DnD setting).
You can comfort yourself thinking you are the smartest person in the thread and that plebs do not get it. But whiel you did not enjoy it, Rogue Trader is a crpg in the WH40k universe that worked

>>3816802
Consider this: someone dies in an apocalypse, someone dies in a slice of life. Is there a difference?
Consider this: a story of a man struggling to open a clothing business, a story of a man struggling to open a clothing business in WH. Is there a difference?

>The standards you set for CRPG design are nowhere near universal
They are, you are just too stupid to realize them, because they haven't been spelled out to you.
>relatively smaller scale in the setting which as established, has areas where the macro state of the universe is not their constant reality.
You are still hung up on "scales", and not what their effects are. Not the effect of bad scaling on a narrative. You are an absolute retard.
Events do no exist in a vacuum in an established universe. Universal themes do not suddenly cease to exist. Breaking of internal logic is not somehow excused.
You dont play/read Warhammer 40k for the minutiae, you don't engage with it for character dramas and arcs, or for the state of the world and progression of events.

You are still retardedly adhereing to the misconception that "hurr durr u think wh40k is not good for crpg because planets explode and millions die". It's not that, it's the failure to address it in a coherent manner so we CARE about the stories. But you also can't, because it's an established and continued universe, where YOUR actions do not matter. This has psychological impact on the player, and affects the game design.

>easiest one would be any DnD setting
DnD suffers from similar issues, but it doesn't have a rigid world structure or an established canon that is unchangeable. More importantly, it doesn't hold itself to any specific ideologues or ethos that guides the entire playing experience. It offers more freedom. It's more malleable. It's also designed well for character control rather than faction control.
And don't you come again with any retarded irrelevancies about tabletop. We are talking videogame design for CRPGS.

>>3816802
>>3816824
Human life does not matter in WH40k. Death is constant and plentiful. So when you try to make a "oh no these people died/will die" statement, it comes off as artificial and forced, and weightless. It's not a "hard decision" or a "moral decision" when faced with billions upon billions of deaths and tragedies, when you, say have to decide to kill a guy or not. It's just shit logic.
Your "roleplaying" is ultimately either "play it as WH40K" or " be retarded". It's not really roleplaying if it's structured like that.

>>3800762
I'm okay with an easy mode existing so long as the devs make it clear what the intended difficulty is.

>>3816834
Just add dialogue options for "Kill Khorne" and "Mentally scar the Hivemind" and such. With a good enough build you can refuse to pay taxes and nothing bad will come out of it (not like the Imperium knows how to spend taxes in a productive manner).

>>3816835
>be CDPR
>make Cyberpunk
>have easy, normal, and hard
>rename them to normal, hard, and very hard
>???
>profit

>>3801739
Nearly all of the in-depth stories written for the Emperor are inconsistent dreck. All of the best stuff came from random tidbits and quotes you'd see in codexes and the like.

>>3816674
>At this point I think you are just refusing to see logic
You're not being logical. Logic is not just whatever the fuck you happen to say. Logic isn't your opinion. And this isn't a debate about math. It's a conversation and you're not participating constructively or in good faith because you profoundly lack social skills.
So now you're being told to shut the FUCK up.

>>3817109
Genuinely low IQ response. You are embarassingly stupid.

>>3816824
>They are, you are just too stupid to realize them, because they haven't been spelled out to you.
Yet this is nowhere near a common held opinion on this thread, on 4chan or even other places of discussion.
>Universal themes do not suddenly cease to exist.
And noen of the universal themes of WH40k make a crpg meaningless. Humanity's struggles, foreign enemies/empires, chaos corruption and allure, imperim being a rotting giant etc are great for a character to strive and thrive o an extent. Difference can be made. Difference has been made, even in lore. Your reasoning for dismissing them is weak, like the rest of your arguments.
>so we CARE about the stories
They do care. You don't. You are a self absorbed fucktard who projects.
>And don't you come again with any retarded irrelevancies about tabletop. We are talking videogame design for CRPGS.
I brought up DnD and its realms cause it is the most adapted setting, you gibbering oaf.
Your retarded ass would think you cannot make a CRPG about Ravenloft or Dark Sun cause you decided 'only this kind of setting and story can get people invested' ignoring all the people telling you ;we are invested'

The more you try to refute and sound intelligent, the more of a petulant child digging his heels you end up like.
F-, see you in Fall Semester, anon

>>3817236
>Yet this is nowhere near a common held opinion on this thread, on 4chan or even other places of discussion.
Yes it is. Stop lying.
>And noen of the universal themes of WH40k make a crpg meaningless. Humanity's struggles, foreign enemies/empires, chaos corruption and allure, imperim being a rotting giant etc are great for a character to strive and thrive o an extent. Difference can be made. Difference has been made, even in lore. Your reasoning for dismissing them is weak, like the rest of your arguments.
You are an idiot, and still don't understand what point I am making. You still return to purposefully misconstruing. Bad actor.
>They do care. You don't. You are a self absorbed fucktard who projects.
You have terrible comprehension. Everything is either literal or semantic with you. Do you sincerely have autism? Do you not understand how communication and thought works?
Do you think arguments are sentence structures, that your autistic brain must "solve"?
>I brought up DnD and its realms cause it is the most adapted setting, you gibbering oaf.
Your retarded ass would think you cannot make a CRPG about Ravenloft or Dark Sun cause you decided 'only this kind of setting and story can get people invested' ignoring all the people telling you ;we are invested'
Not only are you retarded beyond measure, you still fail at grasping basic thought and arguments. Learn to track thoughts and follow conversation, maybe then you'll understand an iota of what is being discussed.

Anyways, two major points for you to internalize.
1. You have no arguments. You are either throwing around fallacies or going through "nuh uh, cuz I said so". I, at least, put some effort into explaining and elaborating on my position. You do no such thing.
2. Work on your communication skills and more specifically your English. Focus on reading comprehension, vocabulary, context retention, grammar and spelling.

I write about ten things, and this retard takes one of them ignoring the rest and overarching argument, misconstrues it, then barely strings a a legible sentence where he ultimately just bashes his head on a wall -- repeatedly just saying variants of "I refuse, I refuse, I refuse". Hoping that after enough head trauma, I'll either have enough pity on him and let him "win" (concept of a discussion is beyond him, it's all ego with him), or his brain will get damaged enough for him to think he made a good argument and deluded himself into thinking he "won" something.

Why the hell do my melee guys just not hit anymore
Finished Kiava Gamma, started Solomourne's quest and Kibella's quest and now my power hammer RT never goes past 50 hit rate and neither does Abelard.
Also did I build Argenta wrong or is the heavy bolter just shit? What's the point of spitting out this many bullets if they never break two digit damage and she also never breaks 40% hit chance

>>3818313
Unironically massive skill issue in both regards.

>>3818320
I'm not exactly a crpg expert. Any ideas on what I might be doing wrong? I just picked their respective strength/ballistic skill/weapon skill/agility/demolition/perception stat ups when I get the chance.

>>3818321
Doesn't sound like you picked WS at all if they're doging or parrying you with any consistency. You're playing on unfair-ish without knowing what you're doing. You're not using items and abilities that increase base damage.

>>3818329
Did I have to go and pick the "characteristic training" or whatever as well? I'm pretty sure I picked WS until the option was red and I couldn't pick it anymore I assume, I haven't actually tried and I think I'm about to be called a mega retard.

>>3818313
>now my power hammer RT never goes past 50 hit rate and neither does Abelard.
Are your enemies dodging or parrying you?
Parry reduction is based on (iirc) on your WS, melee dodge reduction is based on Agi+Per. If you're been putting all your characteristic upgrades into WS+Str then dodge might be the problem.
>Also did I build Argenta wrong or is the heavy bolter just shit?
Nah, the heavy weapons are great, they just take some investment to get going.
For recoil, either pick up recoil-mitigating items like the Stabiliser Bracers and Recoil Warboots, or just pay more attention to positioning the AoE. Recoil doesn't exactly cause shots to miss outright, it causes them to deviate - if you're close enough or you've positioned the AoE well then a deviation just means you hit a different target. For damage, you need the various traits that give you scaling damage or critical damage bonuses based on the number of attacks you've made.
I didn't start using heavy weapons until fairly late in the game. Assault Lasgun carried me through a lot of the game due to the low recoil, high damage and deflection reduction.

>>3811015
this is so true and its such a shame, it really ruins the game. i can only hope their next game has a better balance but i doubt it

>>3818370
Am I fucking stupid?
inb4 yes you're playing an iconoclast fag
35per + 50agi/2 should be 55% not 30%.
Or assuming they fucked up the location of the parenthesis it should be 85/2=~42%.
What am I doing wrong

>>3818448
>55%
I meant 60. I am dumb.

>>3817276
>abloobloobloo, you do not comprehend, you lie
Why do people try so hard when they have nothing to actually say?

Hey so. I decided when this game was releasing that I would wait until all the DLCs were done.

So...are they done?

>>3820092
Nope.

>>3820102
Alright, see you next year then. I'm not playing the game multiple times.

>>3818448
I dunno. I assume it's counting some other static modifiers you have from items or class abilities.

>>3820092
No.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3650060/Warhammer_40000_Rogue_Trader__Season_Pass_2/

>>3820104
I've done some 50ish runs up to cumrag at least so...

>>3820112
I don't know how you get through doing the same stuff multiple times just to get a new DLC. Sounds boring as hell.

I played Kingmaker once, if I did i'd probably end up taking the same decisions because I don't like playing as a dumb-ass retard for no reason other than "new content"

>>3820113
I waited for Void Shadows, then played it. I just made a save at the end of chapter 4 and kept it for later. Reloaded that when Lex Imperialis was out and played through the new content from there. Will probably do the same for the next season worth of DLC. You get to experience most of it.

>>3820113
>same stuff
You'd be surprised how many variations are possible with builds especially if you run solo. Also I skip most of the text and all of the coomershit so it goes much faster.

If I want to be a more aggressive officer do I build him as Overseer or MT?
I tried both and I was doing shit damage.
I've played every other archetype to exhaustion officer is the only one I haven't beaten the game with but I dont want to be a buff bot

>>3820472
You don't have to be

>>3820472
Think outside the box and lean into what you know about items you're going to find. I had an absolute blast with a vanguard officer primarily using an arc rifle of all things. Gloves that parry with ranged weapon, check. Owlkek that still hasn't fixed alpha arc rifle attack to be tagged as ranged attack, check. Funny as all fuck how many free arcing ranged attacks you get from forced counterattacks into parry and all that stacks with malpian shroud since again, owlkek.