Why do you hate him, /vrpg/? He didn't do anything wrong aside from being one of the better parts in a bad game

>>3797827 (OP)
Does anyone even care about him?
Or XIII cast in general?

>>3797827 (OP)
I don't hate him, he's just boring

>>3797829
>Or XIII cast in general?
there are many people who are completely fucking OBSESSED with lightning

>>3797829
t. Aerisimp

>>3797827 (OP)
I actually liked him. Too bad he didn't save the game from sucking balls.

>>3797827 (OP)
INFORMER

>>3797925
That's where I'm at too. I just made it to pulse but I'm sick of this game. The only thing that has kept me going is seeing for myself that the Fabula Nova Industrial Complex is wrong.

>>3797827 (OP)
He was the best character.
>>3797829
The only FF13 characters I am lukewarm on are Lightning (constantly running off and leaving kids to die, tries to murder her brother-in-law) and Hope (namely for the scene where he tries to kill one of his only allies).

The game is overall very good. Top notch visuals from the environment to the architectural designs to the character and monster designs. No characters look like bsdm embarrassment like FF9 through FF12. The soundtrack does not have has high of a hitrate as Uematsu's later OSTs but is still decent. The battles are thrilling with the characters moving around and then then launching monsters into the air and leaping up to air juggle them. Objectively the main issue with the game is that the battle system is designed for three characters, but you don't get a party of three characters until about 30 to 40 hours into the game, and then you don't get to mix and match your favorite characters into a party until 40-50 hours into the game. There is some minor story wonkiness like with the PSICOM subvillains. The game's reputation is mainly a casualty of being misbranded as a FINAL FANTASY title, which comes with expectations that it would not fulfill (mainly exploring a vast wilderness setting and entering towns), and also came out during a time when the internet was proliferating and being used by college indoctrinated bitter Gen Ys and older millenials like Spoony who set the tone that people online regurgitated and drowned out the voices of others. There are worse mainline branded FF games than 13. 12 which is a very long low energy, unexciting slog. 14 which is a 500+ hour long visual novel that is 75% boring fetch quests, talking to NPCs, and boring combat. 15 and 16 with their unimaginative landscapes and character rendering and mediocre action combat. Etc.

>>3798024
I would say a lot of the flaws you brought up really bring the game down. For example, waiting 30 hours to consistently have a 3 person party is a huge flaw. I was sick and tired of not being able to fully enjoy the game that I got hints at when given a 3 person party at times. I would also say that the first 2 hours pre-paradigms was also a huge mistake when it comes to design and it helped me see why everybody gave up on 13. The hallway linearity is also a big deal. People bring up X has being "hallway-like" but I think the fixed camera of X actually helps hide the linearity of the dungeons. The camera switching position helps keep the illusion alive. The Over the shoulder RE4-style camera really drives home that you are walking in a straight line, seeing the next 5 encounters ahead of you. It feels like a slog to trudge through fights with a gimped party to see another 30 seconds of cutscenes that will be interrupted by another fight. I agree that the final fantasy branding gave people the wrong impression, but I think the flaws are still a big enough deal to turn people off.

What is your opinion on 13-2? I've heard that it feels a lot of the issues I've described with 13.

>>3798027
>What is your opinion on 13-2? I've heard that it feels a lot of the issues I've described with 13.
Mixed bag. On paper, it should appeal to people who liked FF13 and want more, but it makes some changes that are going to be offputting. You lose the 6 man party and are now running around with a duo for the whole game, plus whichever non-boss monster design appeals to you the most. This "only two characters" situation may or may not be a dealbreaker. The duo is also set up weird because you have Serah - who is still engaged to Snow - running off with some random young bachelor and spending a lot of time with him. I feel that either Noel should have been Snow, or Serah should have been a new girl for Noel. The other issue is that a large part of FF13's appeal was in the high production value visuals, both environments and the numerous prerendered cinematics. FF13-2 after the cool prologue chapter has nowhere near as many prerendered cinematics, and the new zones aren't quite as fabulous.

One improvement here is that you get a lot more wilderness environments to run through (still corridors) from the get go, as opposed to having to wait 50 hours into the game to get to Gran Pulse.

The game leads into Lightning Returns, which has a much more engaging experience with the climatic story confrontations between characters and the doomsday clock ticking down, but you would have to first get through the lower energy FF13-2 to get to it, and then the single character action combat may or may not also be a dealbreaker for you. I am also not a believer in saying "you should slog through this unenjoyable experience now in the hopes of reaching the actually good stuff later!", so don't force yourself through FF13 or 13-2 if you don't like them.

>>3798035
I've only been forcing myself through FF13 out of curiosity, and seeing how mishandled the game is. I concede that there is stuff to like about it, but at the same time it has such weird design decisions. I think Hope's story would have been more sympathetic if he hadn't literally witnessed Snow trying to save his mom. I think what could have been cool is a flashback from Hope's perspective where you get to see events happen differently, or if he just didn't watch his mom die. The narrative point that Snow is endangering people around him also falls flat when the Purgees volunteered, talked him into it, and the fact that PSICOM was going to just kill them all anyway, so they had nothing to lose by fighting. Lightning's motivation switch in the nutrition complex was also bizarre. Itwas a moment of clarity that seemed very disconnected from what was happening at hand.

I like the idea of the paradigm system, switching roles makes combat very dynamic and reactive, but the constant party dividing and switching keeps you from fully engaging for dozens of hours.

While I haven't finished the game, it is weird that Serah is hanging out with some guy instead of Snow, but I heard the combat is smoother and the game feels less linear. Lightning Returns just seems neat and I'd like to get around to that one as well. Thanks for the reply, I want to give these games a chance.

>>3797829
Sazh is the best

>>3797829
I like Caius? He’s not a player character but he’s one of the best FF antagonists

>>3797829
I thought Sazh was good and had a legitimately great story arc.

I don't dislike FFXIII

>>3798024
>Hope (namely for the scene where he tries to kill one of his only allies)
He's a 14yo that saw his mom die in front of him and has been branded a worldwide terrorist to kill on sight. I'd say him disliking Snow's "le hero saves the day" façade makes shitloads of sense. Honestly, Lightning didn't help giving him that fucking knife then never telling Snow that Hope had it out for him

>>3798130
Lightning did try to warn snow at the last possible second but "interference" go in the way. Lightning also hated snow until she had had her abrupt change in perspective.

I'm not the person you replied to, but the main problem with Hope's reaction is that he watches her die, including when Snow tries to save her. It would work much better if he didn't directly see her die. I'm fine with his hatred of snow, it just could have been done in a way that makes more sense.

>>3798130
I think Hope is overall inoffensive most of the time. But by that moment, he had been travelling with Snow for a few days, saved in battle by him, and they are all on the same team as fugitives trying to not get hunted down and shot. I would think he would hesitate to shank someone he has fought with and is one of his very few dependable allies. That moment just makes him really unlikeable.

I never thought that Snow had a "hero facade". He is a genuinely heroic person and by far the most likeable person in the game, and the other people around him are being debbiedowners.

>>3798043
>I think Hope's story would have been more sympathetic if he hadn't literally witnessed Snow trying to save his mom. I think what could have been cool is a flashback from Hope's perspective where you get to see events happen differently, or if he just didn't watch his mom die.
hope's arc is
>something terrible happens to him and he loses everything he had
>in order to keep himself going and give himself a reason to keep living, he creates a goal of "revenge" by pinning the blame on the nearest person to the incident
>eventually he grows up and realizes that that's fucking insane and wrong
he also serves to help develop lightning, and show her that she, herself, is acting like the petulant child she's walking around with. having hope "misunderstand" that moment would change things completely for the worse imo.

>>3797829
Yes to both

>>3798158
He from the start already misunderstands the moment, he blames Snow well before the scene where he decides that Operation Nora is his reason to keep going. The reason I suggested putting "distance" between Hope and his mother's death is because his arc could remain basically the same while making his perspective more evident to the player. Like a lot of 13, the overall character and story beats are good, they are just mishandled. Lightning's abrupt change in the nutrition complex is another one. Good story beat, but it deserved a little more build up to justify her worldview change.

That's quite the schizo post but I've played XIII to completion, I know how the game is, and I'm sorry but its a terrible game in almost all aspects.

>>3797827 (OP)
One thing I don't understand is how people claim that Snow got innocents killed when Lightning confirms that all those on the Purge trains were just going to be executed instead of exiled. The civilians who fought with Nora would have died anyway if they didn't fight back (Hope aside, I get that he's supposed to be irrational, but the Players with omniscient knowledge should know better). It isn't even hidden in a datalog, Lightning tells Sazh this during the first two chapters.

>>3797827 (OP)
FFXIII is just a shit game so its characters don't get to shine. I don't particularly like or dislike any of them, they're just in a bad game so I never got to appreciate them.

>>3798157
>He is a genuinely heroic person and by far the most likeable person in the game, and the other people around him are being debbiedowners.
He's a retard that constantly spouts "real heroes don't need plans" then makes things worse because of it.

>>3799426
What did he make worse?

>>3797827 (OP)
One, Lightning needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine. Two, whenever Lightning's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking "Where's Lightning"? Three--

>>3798157
It's funny how much the game was like, "Oh God, please think Snow is cool!" He was retarded and annoying. TBDesu, I didn't like any of the characters in that game.
>>3798549
Exactly, XIII was absolute dogshit. Anyone who actually enjoyed that is either an infant who it was their first FF game and/or severely mentally ill.

Vanille was a cutie pie