Is Daniel purposedly written to be an unlikable cunt, or was it an accident?

>>3798695 (OP)
He's New Testament "turn the other cheek"
Joshua is Old Testament "Upon the wicked He will cause to rain coals; Fire and brimstone and burning wind shall be the portion of their cup"

>>3798695 (OP)
Joshua is the idealized version of a devout Mormon
Daniel is the kind of Mormon you're more likely to meet IRL

>>3798701
Daniel has plenty of other things to despise about him other than not wanting to fight the White Legs out of his noble savage fetishism.

He spent what is presumably a very long time with the tribals, but has head planted so firmly in his ass, that he still has no clue what the "Father in the Cave" business is about. It takes the Courier two minutes to understand it, and he does it by just talking to the people that Daniel preaches to.
Daniel also took it upon himself to lie to Walking Cloud.

>>3798701
What's their opinion on two state solution in Zion canyon?

He's meant to exemplify the idea of evading confrontation instead of facing it. The obvious problem being that in this scenario, it just means kicking the can down the road until the NEXT group of spearchuckers comes along. At some point, the Sorrows will have to learn to stand and fight. The Survivalist didn't keep that shotgun out of his mouth all those years so some pissant moralfag could rob his kids of their birthright

>>3798701
>He's New Testament "turn the other cheek"
You misunderstand what that actually means. It isn't "take it like a fag" but "fight smart".
Daniel is just trying to kick the problem down the road because he's afraid of (becoming) a devil like Joshua.

>>3798721
>You misunderstand what that actually means. It isn't "take it like a fag" but "fight smart".
I mean... that's one way to interpret it, I guess.

>>3798721
The Church purposefully misinterpreted it to enforce slave morality within the individual, when it's actually about the cycle of vendetta with which tribal elders manipulated their flocks in the locality and time period it was stated in.

>>3798712
Kek, they're larping as yahuds so it is topical.

Daniel is the quintessential Christian of today, as well as modern Atheists who don't understand their own morality, taking all the wrong lessons from the bible & thinking that allowing his people to be destroyed is a victory so long as morality is maintained. Also for some reason he's Asian when you look into the data for him?

Ultimately he doesn't want a Legion 2.0, since he knows Joshua has the potential to create such a thing. He's forgiven him, but not forgotten.

Missed opportunity to have the Daughters of Hecate play a role as a third option against the White Legs, dooming the already weak tribes longterm in return for a short-term victory through biological warfare, but ensuring the future growth of a tribe strong enough to defeat the Legion.

Another alternative could have been to have The Burned Man make himself known again, conscripting the brutalized White Legs & taking the newly blooded warriors of the two tribes to fight against the Legion, at which point he could have been a Companion along with Follows-Chalk, swapping places leading a tribal warcamp to the Northeast of the map.

One more option for Daniel's camp should have been to callup aid from the Followers of the Apocalypse, Desert Ranger hardliners who refused to join the NCR, & call for any remaining New Canaanites to shore up a passive defense meant to dissuade the White Legs from attack.

Last idea here, Graham slaughters all the White Legs & realizes he's been lying to himself; he was born to lead men in war, it just so happens he fought for the wrong cause before. Thus, he decides to claim leadership of the Legion & steer them in the right direction. He joins up as a Companion on a Legion powerstruggle angle, possibly working with Silus, Vulpes, or Gaius Magnus to overthrow Caesar, Lanius, & Lucius.

>>3798695 (OP)
daniel gets partially vindicated because siding with joshua makes him a vengeful psycho, whereas in daniel's ending, he's more at peace

I agree that daniel's position is represented very poorly in the game

>>3798695 (OP)
>side with Joshua
>Daniel seethes about “muh lost innocence”
>Side with Daniel
>Daniel has forever nightmares about not doing enough to keep the Sorrows in their land
No matter what you do he’s unsatisfied. Meanwhile if you talk down salt-upon-wounds then Joshua finds peace. There’s no reason to side with Daniel unless you intentionally want to keep the Sorrows down by refusing to let them learn how to defend themselves in war; works out great for the NCR since it’s easy to run a defenseless people out of territory you want.

>Presenting the conflict with Daniel posed some challenges because Daniel is not a living legend, i.e. he is even more of a normal man than Joshua is trying to be. Additionally, Mormonism is not a pacifistic religion (and its soteriology does not depend on pacifism), so the conflict could not reasonably by framed around violence vs. non-violence even in the post-apocalyptic version followed by the New Canaanites. Daniel's concern was about larger issues than fighting or not-fighting; he was concerned that Joshua's lapsed nature would cause a whirlwind of warfare that would pull everyone far away New Canaanite traditions to the point where religion was virtually abandoned in favor of a war cult surrounding Joshua.

>I had expected that most people would support Joshua, in part because of Joshua as a character but also because of the nature of gameplay in Fallout (i.e., violence is almost always a solution). I did not expect that the Survivalist's logs (written by John Gonzalez) would push so many more people toward supporting Joshua. I think it's an interesting example of players finding their own connections between the two stories and making an emotional connection that pushes them in a particular direction.

>>3798695 (OP)
A lot of his unlikability, including being white if you care about the white savior complex concept since he's meant to be asian apparently, is an accident. There are merits to his idea in theory, but whichever way you view the situation, it is almost always more effective to just side with Joshua then do the speech check. If the situation was written differently, Daniel's path would be stronger. What if Happy Trails had a better ending with Daniel? What if the Sorrows always became worse with Joshua while only getting a neutral ending at best if you had shown mercy to Salts-Upon-Wounds? What if the White Legs were the Legion or another huge group in order to make staying in Zion feel like suicide (as is, you only need to outlast the White Legs long enough for the Legion to decree they failed and that's it). It takes very particular morals, misunderstanding what is happening, or a meta reason ("I wanna try and see what happens"/"I don't have any speech skill yet want a good ending still") to desire choosing Daniel's path because of this.

>>3798859
The world is a confusing place to an autist.

>>3798771
>he's Asian
IIRC it's the other way around. Daniel ISN"T asian because his GECK race was set to caucasian when it was supposed to be asian.

>>3798771
Based vengeful courier six pushing everyone towards hate

>>3798695 (OP)
Why are the hats and helmets in New Vegas so ugly?

>>3798695 (OP)
He's absolutely set up to be a retard, they show him being an arrogant idiot in multiple different story threads. I'm sure they originally intended him to be an equal option to Joshua but they undermined him to the point it was impossible to interpret the writers taking him seriously.

The only reason to side with him is that you don't care about the situation or people and just want the easiest way out of Zion without having to actively murder him and the bandage guy.

>>3799001
have to make them big enough that heads don't clip through anywhere

>>3799090
But he's not actually any easier than Joshua

>>3799129
I can't really remember the difference in game terms. Writing-wise obviously the shit where you're covering an escape is easier than a frontal assault.

Daniel mainly suffers from not having a middle option in his path, if Joshua didn't have the speech check I'd imagine more people would actually be in his camp as an option, as it is everyone treats Joshua as the default "good" path because it's the happy medium.

>>3799328
at the end of the day it's a video game about killing people to solve your problems, introducing pacifists and moralizing about what you've spent dozens of hours doing already is always a hard sell

>>3799345
they could have easily just made joshua a forced bad ending where the retard horses go nuts and conscript the sorrows until there's nothing left while with daniel the sorrows leave and then come back in a year because the white people can't figure out how to eat bananas

Being intensely generous to Daniel, I think it's valid to worry about and mourn the potential loss of innocence for an entire tribe. That's something you can potentially never get back and I think his heart's in the right place. BUT it's also incredibly fucking cucked to just abandon your home every time you're threatened with violence, and the wasteland seems like the sort of place where people are going to take advantage of this if they ever caught wind of it. Part of being a parent and a guide is protecting your children but also guiding them through difficult shit. It's going to suck when your kid learns about lying, violence, or death, but you'll still be there to help him through that and that's something that someone who's not ex-Legion should really step up to do, instead of fucking lying to your kids. I think his pacifism is disgusting where it's going to end up protecting no one in such a savage world, but he's also not any kind of evil person and I always hesitate on being overly cruel when talking about him.
>tfw he's unhappy in any ending and I'm never sure whether that's very funny and pathetic, or very sad and miserable

>>3799090
>they show him being an arrogant idiot in multiple different story threads.
Waking Cloud's minor quest about the fate of her husband is a good microcosm of Daniel's issues. Her husband died evacuating to Angel's Landing, so he hid that information from her fearing it would become unable to perform her roles for the Sorrows and missionaries.
He has some hardcore complex regarding maintaining the innocence of the tribals. Even though he has no right to hide harsh truths and realities from them.
He's an idealist to the point of being a control freak, even if he's motives are respectable in wanting to avoid Joshua Graham falling back into the warlord role and the Tribals falling with him.

>be me, happily playing new vegas on hardcore
>enter honest hearts dlc, get follow-chalk as a forced follower
>promptly gets himself killed by running off into a cazador, triggering the chaos in zion quest and deleting the entire honest hearts storyline
what were they thinking???

>>3799853
Your fault for playing hardcore and not keeping a mental tab on your companion.

>>3799853
I don't think it actually works that way, as in if he's been a follower it doesn't matter if he dies. It only triggers the chaos in zion thing if you kill him before talking to him

>>3798721
>You misunderstand what that actually means. It isn't "take it like a fag" but "fight smart".
Based Jordan Peterson fan
>>3798865
These fallout 3 memes are so stupid I love them

>>3798695 (OP)
Not purposefully, but I do think he's written to be the opposite of Joshua, rather than his own character. Joshua is a troubled, violent man trying to overcome his past by turning his darker impulses on people he's sure are deserving of it. Daniel is an aspirational pacifist obsessed with "innocence"; he thinks that preserving the Tribal's peaceful ways is more important than equipping them to actually survive. Daniel comes across as a paternalistic and naive bigot, while Joshua is in very serious danger of relapsing into being just as bad as he was when he was Caesar's right hand man, but at least he sees the world as it is and treats the tribes of Zion as people rather than moral totems. Ultimately I think Daniel would be a bit more compelling if his world view wasn't so profoundly patronizing.

>>3798695 (OP)
How the fuck did this nigga survive in a world with psychotic raider bands and giant lizards who could rip and tear your ass apart in seconds? Being a pacifist in the Fallout world makes no sense in this context and his existence harms the world-building of the game.

>>3800135
He's not a pacifist (that's why he carries a gun), he just wants Sorrows to be pacifists.

>>3800135
imagine in a hellscape murder world you come across a tribe of people who are innocent as children. Daniel is a little obsessed in maintaining the innocence of an innocent people because he knows how fucked everything is outside the valley.

I'm surprised people even remember this boring ass DLC enough to discuss it. Guess you guys actually replayed it after the first time

>>3798712
>Whatever. Joshua, put a cap in General Gobbledigook here.

>>3798701
He isn't even either, he's just some schmuck. Joshua's story arc is meant to be the two sides of the coin, turn the other cheek or upon the wicked. It depends on how you make his story play out.

>>3799507
I agree with this assesment. They're lucky to not have slavers within the vicinity of the tribes... or worse. You can have a society be strong but gentle as well, self-defense isn't going to lead to a lust for violence.

>>3800458
>self-defense isn't going to lead to a lust for violence.
It might, but then just
>You can have a society be strong but gentle as well
Literally temper them with that, especially if Joshua hasn't gone back to being mean, buddy it is your JOB to guide these people, your well-intended coddling of them is going to get them literally enslaved

>>3799507
>loss of innocence for an entire tribe
NIGGA THEY ARE GROWN ADULTS

>>3801069
We do the same thing in real life for a tribe, although not for their innocence. North Sentinel Island, they call it. The reasons for preserving them as they are may be drastically different, but the general idea of "don't change a tribe" is something that isn't new and strictly designated as "so retarded that no one would do it"

>>3801069
It's called White Saviour Complex, anon, but it's not really about race and more about oversocialization. These people are so disconnected from survival that they think they have infinite room for abstract moral choices in any situation.

>>3801075
North Sentinel Island
>don't go over, introduce tech, economics and diseases that would completely and utterly destroy their old ass way of life while still communicating with them every now and then
sorrows
>dont let these guys fight and kill an enemy that wants to genocide them and are so comically evil they cant be reasoned or bargained with, instead they should abandon their old ass way of life so they can preserve le "innocence"
this conflict is retarded, the writers (espically saywer) are retarded for thinking this is in anyway an actual question if you think daniel is right, you are a pussy.
i am a muslim. it is my faith rule to fight against the unjust, and white legs are defintely fucking unjust. idk maybe this is all just a complex christian moral quandry that my massive balls and firm backbone prevent me from comphrending

>>3801084
nomad, more like hemad

>>3801069
They're still presented as a peaceful and well-meaning dopey people
>>3801080
But I'm not white...
>>3801084
It's not intensely great writing, but we're trying to take it as-is
>maybe this is all just a complex christian moral quandry
Pacifism is one potential takeaway, although it's debatable and I personally don't think it's valid either, but it's open/controversial enough for there to be debate. The Bible doesn't really talk about babying people, I just took the child parallel because pastoral care is partly fathering a people, which involves both protection and guidance.

>>3801092
crpgs & immersive sims (let alone western culture) will never grow if cowardice and a the tendancy to worship weakness is not called out where ever it lays
>>3801096
its hard to take it as is since not a single sorrow or even dead horse (we're just assuming their totally on joshua's side) express their own view of who's right or any alternatives. they are unrealistically passive and just willing to do whatever the white guys (and whatever race courier is) want. i hate to sound woke or preachy but yeah its hard not to see this as racist honestly. but even if you put this aside, daniel is a pussy! the other anons are right, when does the retreat end if another group attacks? are they supposed to fight them off, but that scenario would somehow be different then the whitelegs invasion? its ridicoulous. adults are adults, they fight alongside you if you side with joshua they can deal with the damn mental consequences

>>3801110
>ts hard to take it as is since not a single sorrow or even dead horse (we're just assuming their totally on joshua's side) express their own view of who's right or any alternatives.
Other than whatshername getting rightly mad about Daniel hiding the truth from her, but specifically about the Zion situation, yeah you're right, it would have been nice to hear your companions' thoughts on it. I'm willing to believe that, due to whatever happened post-war, over a few hundred years there were able to be completely innocent cultures that somehow survived. Maybe that's re-racist, whatever, but it's something that like, could have happened.
>daniel is a pussy! the other anons are right, when does the retreat end if another group attacks?
I said that too! Even if well-intended, you can't keep running forever, you have to teach your kids at some point that you have to stand up to bullies. Even if that involves putting caps in a few General Gobbledigooks now and then.
>they can deal with the damn mental consequences
Think the ending slide mentioned that they changed in a disheartening way and Daniel was unhappy (as he with all endings), wish there was some sort of small quest talking to villagers that would have Daniel like, you know, actually guide these people and not just go "oh no, the innocent people have embraced violence and this taints them forever", even though Joshua (who is IN your OWN FUCKING DLC, DANIEL!) is someone who (potentially) can move past that and not be someone who revels in violence anymore??

>>3801127
>I said that too!
my bad didnt recognise that youre the same dude.
i dont think its reracist or whatever. extremely implausible? yes, but its fiction so who cares! my main grief that im not able to deal with is that i just think the innocense doesnt really matter for the reasons you, I and other anons stated. i didnt know that daniel is depressed no matter the ending tho lmao, im sorry but that has cemented him as a bitch in my mind

>>3801092
kek gottem

>>3801096
>But I'm not white...
That's no excuse for being unable to read.

>>3801110
you will never grow as a poster unless you stop namefagging

>>3801147
I was >>3799507
But yeah, there's been worse contrived things in Fallout that I've happily or begrudgingly accepted, and "this tribe is pretty peaceful and I am also a really really bad fucking anthropologist who didn't know these tribals were misunderstanding me" also leaves room to question how accurate his view of the Dead Horses and Sorrows even is.
>i just think the innocense doesnt really matter
I argued, charitably, that it still does, it's just that it's outweighed by other concerns both practical and moral, being outweighed doesn't necessarily mean it stopped mattering, it was an important thing to care about.
>daniel is depressed no matter the ending tho lmao, im sorry but that has cemented him as a bitch in my mind
I still have mixed feelings about this, it's hard not to mock him about it but I also feel bad for him.
>>3801187
I read the post, I just don't think it necessarily applies here (although it still could, it's a valid criticism)

>>3801205
>I read the post
Then you didn't comprehend it, or you wouldn't have responded the way you did. Your race is immaterial.

>>3801211
I did, I just thought it was a funny non-response. I think it's acceptable to take the circumstances at face value or even charitably during a playthrough, even if it's not necessarily well-written, and there's ways I can imagine this criticism not applying. However, for both "this dilemma was badly written" and "maybe the authors had this mindset and gave us such a non-dilemma as a result", then yeah, I can see it. It's just that, again, I find it more interesting to think about the character and the world before stepping back and thinking about the writing.
>are you defending bad writing
No but we can't un-write it, so we can at least think about it a bit more

>>3801189
i refuse to accept your "advice" unless there is a caveat that it comes from experience

There definitely should have been a pro-Legion route involving Frumentarii sabotaging the community before the White Legs big push by means of setting their ammo dump on fire, poisoning their springs, etc., as well as an option to fight in support of the White Legs.
If some of the Happy Trails Caravaners had survived, they could have lent further credence to Daniel's point of view, supporting a seemingly more reasonable retreat rather than risking total annihilation.
It would be even more compelling if only "Deadeye" Ricky & perhaps one other caravaner supported Joshua Graham, with Waking Cloud supporting Daniel explicitly & Follows-Chalk expressing doubt that his tribe could defeat them after hearing about the Crazy Horns. That way it would create the appearance that a psycho/buffoon was Graham's only solid supporter, casting doubt on his preferred path. We also never speak to an actual tribal elder from either tribe beyond the Shaman who remains impartial. Would have been nice to get a totally different perspective from their more tribal viewpoints.

>>3801270
That'd be awesome actually. My post assumes the endings will be untouched, which means the metagame perspective of why which ending is "better" still holds true, but you don't need the metagame perspective to see the flaw with Daniel's plan anyways. With what you just said, it'd basically turn Honest Hearts into an IQ bellcurve where morons (Ricky) and badasses (Joshua Graham) will side with NO, WE FIGHT while Daniel's plan is cemented as a path that is flawed yet admittedly what normal people would likely take. If a player thinks everyone should stay because of the caravan, that argument will hit different if the surviving caravaneers really wish they could leave right now. Ricky would be the (unfortunately realistic) equivalent of mouthbreathers who make it look bad, leaving only other mouthbreathers or people confident in the movement to stay while everyone else stays away. Hell, such a thing would add some cool character to Ricky too! There's a lot more examples of what having the other caravaneers alive could potentially add to the DLC's dilemma to be a bit more interesting as to why to side with Daniel, and basically, you'd be able to roleplay a lot more confidently as to why your courier character would take Daniel's path without it feeling very weird most of the time. Of course, we all know this wouldn't be possible even if we were Idea Guys in Obsidian during development due to the limitations placed on FNV's DLC, but it's still a really cool idea that you wrote and could honestly make for a cool experience.

>>3801279
Thanks anon. If you liked that, you might enjoy the Qst (collaborative choose your own adventure, basically an RPG with votes) that I'm running over at:
>>>/qst/6273519
Original setting along the Southeastern Seaboard, with no Super Mutants, Brotherhood of Steel, etc.

It's super easy to kill Joshua if you side with Daniel. He just appears without being in his chaos in zion superpower mode where he has like twenty times as many HP as anything else in the game and you can whack him in the head with a pipe and he dies. If you actually side with him he's completely invincible. So if you hate the game jerking him off and resent how lame the chaos in zion path is, there you go.

Daniel's greatest sin is asking for the player to consider not killing in a game all about using violence to solve your problems.

>>3801110
>I don't think it would have been particularly interesting to suggest that, contrary to how the majority of various low-tech, low-contact cultures around the world have dealt with the arrival of cultures with significantly higher technology and scientific knowledge -- that the tribes of the Great Basin have some special psychological makeup that inures them to the same sorts of cultural processes.

>>3801337
>in a game all about using violence to solve your problems.
Speech build bypasses nearly all NPCs.

I think he was Sawyer self-insert.

>>3798721
No, it doesn't. You are coping fag making shit up.

>>3801367
Nah, he wouldn't have been shown to be a putz over and over if anyone identified with him. He was just there to try to make some kind of contrast with Joshua.

>>3798721
>It isn't "take it like a fag" but "fight smart".
I love the part of the NT where Jesus fights smart and allows Romans to arrest him so that he was admitted in one room with the entirety of the assembled Synedrion where he gunned them all down with his dual .45 Colt 1911s.

>>3801389
Sawyer does consider himself to be a clown desu

>>3798823
>if you talk down salt-upon-wounds
joshua, put a cap in general gobbledigook

>>3801084
>i am a muslim. it is my faith rule to fight against the unjust
hebrews had a religion of conquest, christianity was a pushback against this and as a result a religion of pacifism, islam is a pushback against christianity
in addition these religions' doctrines are heavily skewed by their times, like historically islam was skewed toward radicalism because people of the time didn't really understand why they'd ever be islamic instead of jewish since they seemed so similar to the layman
it's a deep topic but the core relation is that yes christianity is largely a religion based around pacifism and acceptance of ones' station in life, be it being a slave, a woman, whatever

>>3801367
Daniel isn't a woman, so no.

>>3799507
>>3801069
I took his existence within the story as some sort of commentary on the Anglo Protestant obsession with innocence, and just how absurd it is especially when divorced from anything but super peaceful and prosperous societies like the ones Anglo-Saxons have enjoyed the past 300 years. Talk to Americans about children and they act like it is their number one mission in life to ensure they know as little about the world as possible for as long as possible, since that would be corrupting.

>>3802253
>Talk to Americans about children and they act like it is their number one mission in life to ensure they know as little about the world as possible for as long as possible, since that would be corrupting.
This but unironically, as someone who grew up with the 90s internet and now has children

>>3802256
Truly a people of immoderation. It's either "I hand my kid an ipad at age 4 and whatever happens, happens", or "my kid doesn't know what death is at age 9". Sometimes both.

>>3802276
concepts like "nuance," "abstraction," "ambiguity," and "literacy" are scary to our american minds

>>3802253
Goku was only able to become a good person when he lost his memory. The flowers of evil sprout from the tree of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. You're a brainlet.
>>3802291
There's no such thing as an "american".

>>3801279
>I must refuse all rewards
this one drives me insane cause other than Megaton, all of the archetypal "be a good person or be a retarded asshole for no reason" moral choices in Fallout 3 are insanely sided towards the good guys. Saving the robot from having to live in Boston nets you the best weapon in the entire game

>>3802341
>quoting the bible and anime as your sole proof for an argument
>calling anyone a brainlet
Funniest post I've seen in a while, thanks anon

>>3802668
It's an example of a non-American narratives valuing innocence and showing knowledge as corrupting. Shit is old as fuck thematically. Want another? Enkidu. You must be an American yourself, because you're fucking ignorant and view everything through a narrow American lens.

>>3798726
>>3801371
>>3801390
You guys read the bible right? So what does Jesus do when he gets slapped? Does he submit to their authority?

>>3802935
Yes, he gets more than slapped and does submit.

>>3802994
So talking back and proclaiming your own authority as God over them is submitting? Why didn't he turn the cheek as exactly stated?

>>3803419
>>3802994
"If I said something wrong, testify as to what is wrong. But if I spoke the truth, why did you strike me?"

What do you think this means? Are you ESL because we can find it in your language.

>>3801069
A society that doesn't even consider violence a solution shouldn't be something that NEEDS to be corrected. Sadly they live in wacky fallout land and pretty much need to fight. Still, that doesn't change the fact that this group of people's cultural identity will change once introduced to the realities of warfare and might=right.

>>3803419
>>3803424
Did you want him to turn the other cheek physically? He never retaliates or defends himself, even thought he says he could send down an army of angels any time.

>Jesus came down to die for our sins but what do you mean he didn't resist against the Jews and Romans and what do you mean this is the part we're supposed to emulate
What is Biblical literacy

>>3801069
What does that have to do with anything?

>>3801367
That would be Arcade actually

>>3802651
The only choices with any degree of ambiguity & nuance in 3 are the Oasis/Harold conundrum, trying to figure out Billy Creel's angle which isn't even a Quest, deciding Marie & The Pitt's fate which is still skewed toward Werner & Midea/the Steel-Worker Slaves, the Ghoul rapefugee crisis at Tenpenny Tower, & whether or not to Deathray Canuckia (they probably deserve it).

>>3803512
>he never retaliates
He literally didn't submit and challenged their authority while proclaiming to be God against their will. This isn't being "submissive."
Also he does literally destroy their temple and scatter them across the fucking planet. If you don't think we're in the era of tribulation you don't know anything about Christianity.

>>3806476
>you don't know anything about Christianity
Anon I think you already surmised the context of a lot of the posts here

>>3806476
That's a big stretch. I never mentioned "submissive" you are turning this conversion outright gay.

>>3806476
Yeshuah didn't destroy their temple, Vespasian & Titus did, & they worshipped the Roman Gods.

>>3806476
>gets slaped
>"heh, little do they know i proclaim myself to be the son of god so i win"
>gets executed
kek what a cuck

>>3806610
>>3802935
retarded
>>3806611
>>3807572
>likely samefagging
Predestination uses non-believers too, it's why both parts of his prophecy happened. I bet you're the type that calls it worshipping a kike on a stick but has no idea he calls them the synagogue of Satan. Dispensationalism is a heresy and the pagans converted to Christ en masse get over it.

>>3808153
You are a cretin that has learned about Christianity from /pol/ memes

>>3798695 (OP)
I think so. The most favorable reading of it was that it was the best way from discouraging players from viewing the escape from Zion as the "best ending," as the pacifist/most-people-living option usually is in these games, as Daniel is unhappy no matter what. It also makes you more reluctant to accept his ideals at all, and the whole thing with Honest Hearts is having to come to terms with Daniel and Joshua both being wrong by themselves, and their ideals coming together was needed in Zion (as shown by the Survivalist Journals that depict all the outcomes but in the past). That wouldn't play out the same if you actually liked Daniel and thought he was in the right in any way.

in a real life scenario, what daniel wants to do makes sense, it's just that in gameplay terms the courier and joshua graham are one man armies that can easily solo the entire white legs by themselves

>>3810621
>in a real life scenario, what daniel wants to do makes sense,
Explain how haphazardly packing women, children and the elderly into an ad-hoc refugee caravan running away into a fucking desert full of raiders and slavers on foot makes sense? Spoiler alert, it fucking doesn't. In a real-life scenario, what Daniel wants is completely laughable on it's face and would lead to everyone being pincered by raiders at the front, and the whitelegs at the back, leading to everyone dying.

>>3801075
>North Sentinel Island, they call it.
There are similar "non-contact" tribes in South America, living in similar reservations, treated like biosphere reserve, but not as violent. The laws don't really apply there and whoever gets killed there is not really investigated. Thing is, those tribes live in the areas of heavy cartel activity, where the coca crops are grown and submarines are built, and North Sentinel is at the tail end of an archipelago that is a center of ship piracy in the world. I am much more willing to believe that those reservations exist only because right people in the organized crime have right connections in the government, with tribe leaders being in on a deal and hippie ethnography academia being useful idiots (as always).

>>3810638
nice thing about a desert, there's a fuckton of directions to run around

>>3810713
> there's a fuckton of directions to run around
You're not running from shit while dragging women, children and the elderly around. And even if you get lucky and somehow manage to outrun raiders, how exactly is your ad-hoc emergency caravan going to provide food and water for the duration of this unplanned detour? I could go on for an eternity what a dump, retarded nigger Daniel is, but i've already made my point. The fact that running away is even an option is fucking stupid, and if it was taken seriously as a real-life scenario the "evacuate Zion"-ending would end with 95% of the tribals either dead from exposure, malnutrition, raiders/slavers, hostile mutant fauna etc etc, and culminate with Daniel coming face to face with the fact his cowardice led to the sorrows' trail of tears/genocide, that there is no magic safe haven where they can live undisturbed and "pure" and they have had to learn to fight/kill anyway, and that everything was for nothing. And then he would suckstart a 12 gauge, like the coward he is.

>>3810720
the tribals know how to live off the land, the white legs don't

>>3810736
>in a real life scenario, what daniel wants to do makes sense
>The white legs are arbitrarily too retarded to eat flora/fauna

>>3810739
what's unrealistic about that? do you think that if you drop a random urbanite in the middle of the Sonora they'll automatically know how to survive?

>>3810749
nta but it's unrealistic in the sense of how long it's been since the apocalypse. Any backwards tribal retard can only afford to be so by dint of being able to live off the land. Posh urbanites would have either died or adapted after so long.

>>3810756
either way, it doesn't take long before the white legs get wiped out by a stronger group in all the endings, even in the ending where they "win" they don't win

>>3810720
>The fact that running away is even an option is fucking stupid
>Does the percentage of players who choose and ending speak towards its 'quality' as in reinforcement via design & writing? Would it be preferable if endings were split 8.25% each or is that unimportant?
>I don't think that's necessarily important. For Honest Hearts, I knew that the large majority of people would side with Joshua rather than Daniel, but I thought it was important for Daniel's option to be in the game as it was.
People like Daniel exist and feel strongly about their beliefs.

>>3810808
>People like Daniel exist
Yeah, i'm aware that 90iq retards like Soier exist, and that they continuously cram their retarded politics into videogames. Like i already said, if Daniel was actually written realistically, running away from Zion would end with him blowing his own brains out after he comes face to face with reality and is forced to realize his naivete and stupidity has doomed them all.

>>3810822
Well every ending for Daniel is unhappy.

>>3810808
>People like Daniel exist
No they don't.

>>3810858
Absolutely sheltered outlook.

>>3811635
He's a fictional cartoon character in a fictional cartoon setting. People like him don't exist. Please stop trying to make something out of a nothing video game, shit is not deep, it is not insightful, and it doesn't even take itself seriously.