Thread 3799949

is this the worst villain we ever got in any Fallout/RPG or is there one worst than this shit

>>3799949 (OP)
No, President Richardson from Fallout 2 was worse.
>Hurr durr I'm evil man who wants to kill everyone because lulz
Shaun was executed terribly but at least he's conceptually interesting. That describes most of Fallout 4's writing, actually. The Enclave only gets glazed because they have cool power armour and a few memorable talking heads.

>>3799949 (OP)
Fallout villains have always been nazis

>>3799949 (OP)
>calling your own kid a villain
if you didn't side with Shaun and try to help him achieve his goals, then you should never be a parent. In fact, go neck yourself now to remove yourself from the genepool.

>>3799949 (OP)
enclave as a whole and especially Horrigan were worse

>>3799976
>>3799992
Enclave and Horrigan from 2 weren't supposed to be taken that seriously. They were just supposed to be a threatening enemy for you to defeat and not think about all that much. Fallout 4 is arguably worse because Shaun is portrayed as if he has something profound to say or worth taking into consideration when im actuality it's complete and utter nonsense that falls flat on its face if you think about it for even two seconds.

>>3799949 (OP)
The problem with the whole institute is that it's just incoherent. One premise/scene/thought does not follow from another one or add up to anything no matter how much slack you cut it.

>>3799996
>>3799997
exactly what confused you about the institute?

>>3799996
>>3799997
The developers made a deliberate choice to not expound on the Institute's motivations and philosphy at all. They felt too much focus on plot and characters would muddle the gameplay. If you're a younger/console player getting into the franchise for the shooting and looting you'd probably find exposition about that kind of stuff to be a confusing waste of time.

>>3799949 (OP)
Institute is one of my favorite factions, with BoS and legion. Kind of like House Telvanni of the wasteland. I'm glad bethesda had the balls to go all out and make something interesting. A society of self interested big brains, a credible threat to BoS (in addition to the black BoS, the enclave). Synth infiltrators are a cool idea.

NCR and Enclave are the lamest factions in the series. Worst villains.

>>3800003
you gotta get better in those ragebaits buddy

Not even a villain. Who doesn't want to conquer the normalfags with an army of robots and help their son fulfill their life's work?

>>3799985
>and try to help him achieve his goals

MAYBE IF HE TOLD US WHAT THEY WERE

>>3800096
he does?

>>3799949 (OP)
Kek, as soon as he got the diagnosis, he decided "fuck it, blackface in the next boardroom meeting"

Why wouldn't they just swap their phsyical brains or transfer scans of their minds into synth bodies though, especially in Shaun's case sense he had a terminal illness? There's no apparent point to even making advanced synths besides to eventually replace themselves.

>>3800138
he had brain cancer

>>3799976
>>3799992
>>3799996
I feel like the Enclave become more interesting when you look at the members that aren't leaders. Which I think is suppose to show why the U.S. in the Fallout universe fell to begin with. Pointless deaths at the hands of incompetent leaders. Richardson is just looking to line his pockets with power and Horrigan is a glorified attack dog. It's the inverse of most Fallout bad guys where the leader has some sort of intriguing manifesto but the goons are just enemies for you to mop up. It's why Navarro is the best part about the Enclave.

>>3799949 (OP)
>not an RPG
offtopic thread

>>3799976
I feel that Richardson works because he's the exact opposite of a typical vidya BBEG. He's a weak, sickly bureaucrat you can easily kill. He's not someone who commands respect, inspires others or even really represents some ideology for the player to oppose. He's just an old man who somehow got elected as US president by his fellow, equally sick and feeble, politicians.

>>3800176
My favorite random encounter is the enclave soldier you can find alone in the wasteland. He’s stuck in his power armor and needs oil to help him move again, if you help him he gives you a decent amount of energy cells before peacefully departing into the wastes. It’s meant to be a Wizard of Oz reference but I still feel a bit bad after encountering him while I was on my way to Navarro to massacre the base.

Honestly, as kool of a concept as he is, & as much aura as he carries, Ulysses actually sucks as a villain. "You accidentally blew up this place we both traded with, now I'm going to fuck over the Mojave's traderoutes. Oh you like the NCR? I'll just fuck them over then. Oh you like the Legion? I'll fuck them over then. You want the world to burn like The Toaster, Victor Presper, & Elijah? Well I don't, even though that's what I'm doing."

Should have left Elijah as the Big Bad who wants to Wipe the Slate Clean. The Brotherhood of Steel that he still aligns with marginally would be fine in their bunkers, so his worldview is at least somewhat coherent. He would probably consider the Enclave somewhat justified as well, so if Groom Lake/Area 51 was the subject of the DLCs rather than The Divide & Big Mountain, he could have sided with them. Could even rope the Enclave Remnants into it, most of whom would oppose him & the mad scientists left at the facility, although Moreno would be all for the Pro-Elijah Madman/Dust in the Making Playthrough, as would the Boomers if they had a companion.

>>3799976
Nigger how dare you. Fallout2 has inner consistency. He wants to kill everyone cos they are mutan subhumans. Are you fucking retarded?
Everything which happens in fallout4 happens for no fucking reason at all and makes precisely zero sense.
retard.

>>3800103
No? He spouts the same vague bullshit every other Institute member does. "Bro we want to fix everything" is not a goal, it's an idea, or maybe a pipe dream considering how inane their plans are and how fucking incompetent some of them are.

>>3802701
the entire institute questline is learning about and fulfilling sean's goals

>>3801333
Ulysses has PC logic, and that's what makes him interesting. How many RPGs where you make your character give that character a backstory and a nemesis? Even before meeting Ulysses, I always found it oddly poignant that someone knew you, and you were just as much a part of the wasteland as everyone else.
From Johnson Nash:
>"Yeah, got this look when he saw you next down on the Courier list. His expression turned right around, asked me if your name was for real. I said, sure as lack of rain, you were still kicking. Then he turned down the job, just like that."

>>3801333
ultimate TRVKE: New Hopeville never existed and everything Ulysses said about it is him projecting his guilt over destroying New Caanan, serving Caesar after the Legion destroyed his tribe, and betraying the White Legs in turn onto you because you're the person he was pretending to be in order to further his job as a frumentarius and he can't bare the shame of getting mogged by someone who didn't even know he existed. The entire plot of Lonesome Road is a ridiculous Rube Goldberg machine that's only purpose is setting up a situation where
>actually delivering packages is LE BAD
so that Ulysses can cope

literal definition of based retard, I love him so much

>>3802664
That guy just might be retarded, but going by the way you write, you definitely are.

>>3802751
On my first play-through, I called my character Ulysses. The Odyssey is kino and I knew that I was going to drift around the game world from place to place. Also, referencing Ulysses S. Grant seemed fitting for a wild west theme game. Had a good laugh when I met Ulysses, it gave his obsession with me a special twist.

>>3803420
Sounds Kino as fuck, anon. I somehow either saw concept art, trailers, or an actual premonition of Ulysses before I saw his character model in The Divide, & was shocked when he had short dreadlocks instead of long ones, but otherwise looked identical to how I somehow knew him to look. Mind you, I lived in a small town with very limited internet access.

>>3802664
Fallout 2 has no consistency because it was developed by a bunch of redditors who didn't communicate with each other at all and basically did their own thing in each of their own locations. Also just because the President explains his goals doesn't mean it's a good explanation or that they're good goals. It just boils down to
>lulz randumb im so evil x3
>imma kill EVERYONE for teh pure humans
The President in Fallout 3 also had the exact same goals and gave you the same explanation. It's completely lazy and boring and sucks ass in both games.

>>3804992
>Fallout 2 has no consistency because it was developed by a bunch of redditors
Stopped reading here

>>3804994
Did I hit a nerve, tourist?

>>3800012
>help their son fulfill their life's work?
What IS his life's work?

>>3802701
Did you even play the game? He spends ages talking about what he wants to do. The last time I played fallout 4 was when it came out and me and my friends were 17 years old and even I remember it enough to know you're spouting complete bullshit.

>>3799949 (OP)
>Boston game
>2 voiced MCs
>MCs from Boston
>MCs don't have a Boston
>Or even a greater Massachusetts accent
>as a matter of fact only a few random gimmick characters seem to even be from the northeast
I feel like this was the worst sin of FO4. I am not even from there but I had a mentally ill Jewish girlfriend from Sandwich and 1) it's a hot accent 2) it takes a lot from the world building when everyone just sounds like a generic voice actor

>>3806279
No, he really fucking doesn't. You finally reach him & he basically says, "you wouldn't understand our goals or methods. You can be in charge though." Nothing is ever explained besides that they need power from the surface until they get their new reactor running. That's the only motivation we're given for anything they do.

Are they making bio-androids to use as vessels for their scientists' own minds/consciousnesses, or as a source of slave labor, or are they meant to procreate & replace humanity entirely at some arbitrary point when the scientists decide they're sapient?
Are the FEV experiments meant to enable gene therapy through the virus, create supersoldiers capable of destroying all the enemies the Institute makes for no good reason, or because Taw't Hwart of the Just Works simply wanted more Orks in his Nuclear DnD game?
Why do they even interact with the surface & put a target on their backs, for food, water, raw materials, tech scrounging, test subjects, or new blood to stave off inbreeding?
What is their relationship with the other Vaults of the area (since they supposedly needed a Vault Dweller's untainted genes as a bio-android template), the Triggermen who seem to run the city behind the scenes, or the Gunners who must be getting paid by someone?
Why did they stop utilizing & advancing their cybernetics?
None of these questions are ever answered.

>>3806287
I was just thinking about that earlier. It's the same way with Southern accents in New Vegas mods rather than proper Western ones, or worse yet the random Irish & English accents Bethesda gives to characters.

>>3806287
>mentally ill Jewish girlfriend
pics or it's fake. and her kosher schnozz had better be massive.

>>3806382
>I was just thinking about that earlier
Funny because you'll turn around and claim you hate/don't care about Bethesda games etc, but think about the accents of their characters

>>3808239
I went and tracked down her Instagram just for you anon. Not as big as it should have been unfortunately

Fallout 4's (and 3) plot makes sense if you are schizophrenic but they utterly fail as exoteric narratives, suffering from dogshit characterisation and confusing settings. They only make sense as masonic mysteries. Pagliarulo and co are so far up their own asses they forgot the basics of storytelling. NV has stuff under the surface but also manages to have a decent setting and characters that seem plausible and likable.

>>3809205
Kinda looks like the Samsung Girl, but unless you're already brown, keep yiddesses out of your bloodline, anon.

>>3799996
>Fallout 4 is arguably worse because Shaun is portrayed as if he has something profound to say or worth taking into consideration when im actuality it's complete and utter nonsense that falls flat on its face if you think about it for even two seconds.

/thread

>>3799998
>>3800000
"Its supposed to be bad/unfinished/retarded"
Thats some peak cope here.

>>3799996
>when im actuality it's complete and utter nonsense that falls flat on its face if you think about it for even two seconds

That describes like 95% of real world "faction leaders" doebeit

>>3809226
Oh I know better now, anon. She had a devilishly hot body that entranced my mind but we ended up having a falling out after she inquired about my voting habits, I told her I thought voting was pointless and she cried and accused me of implicitly supporting raping women by not fighting trump. There's something magical about it though. I would almost be willing to be pecked to death as the man servant of a yenta just to cream her one more time. You know, the more I don't think about it, I think she stole a piece of my soul.

>>3809305
reading shit like this reinforces my will to become a wizard

>>3799985
Wasn't his goal to replace the human race with synthoid literal NPCs because they could survive the radioactive Wasteland better than Man?
It's transhumanly nihilistic and explicitly anti-human. I don't think you should kill your son, but you should be able to spank the shit out of him till he learns his lesson not to reject his essence/human nature.

>>3809852
>I don't think you should kill your son, but you should be able to spank the shit out of him till he learns his lesson not to reject his essence/human nature.
and that's what happens to sons growing up without fathers (the REAL reason the Shaun grew up all fucked up).
raised institutionally he becomes
>transhumanly nihilistic and explicitly anti-human.

>>3809852
>I don't think you should kill your son, but you should be able to spank the shit out of him till he learns his lesson not to reject his essence/human nature.
and that's what happens to sons growing up without fathers (the REAL reason Shaun grew up all fucked up).
raised institutionally he becomes...
>...transhumanly nihilistic and explicitly anti-human.

>>3809852
>Wasn't his goal to replace the human race with synthoid literal NPCs because they could survive the radioactive Wasteland better than Man?
Is this really the plot of 4? How original.

>>3809855
yeah. twas gay logic.
their "reasoning" was they saw these synth AIs as conscious as humans and thus implicitly deemed their golem creations worthy of (greatly) replacing humanity.
(I sided with the Brotherhood and wiped those traitorous techniggers out).

>>3809874
Basado y rojapilled

>>3799949 (OP)
>fallout 4
>rpg

>>3809979
If every piece of shit Japanese slop adventure game can get called an RPG then fallout 4 is a paragon of the genre

>>3810032
Two wrongs don't make a right

>>3799949 (OP)
>is there one worst than this shit
Caesar. Interesting concept but executed by retards. What if le Romans were in fallout but instead of taking any notes from from the rich cultural history of the Latin world they are just a wild raider group living in tents that loves slaves, hates le women's rights, and they all dress in comical scavenged parodies of stereotypical Roman outfits, refuse to use guns or industry for some contrived reason, and are led by a dimwit warlord with no serious plan.

Ironically, the sprawling colonial civil plutocracy of the NCR is much more Roman (and interesting as a faction) than the one note Caesar's Legion.

>>3810046
Caesar was originally made for black isle Fallout 3 where it was only a part of this whole greco-roman motif across multiple game elements but they handed the name to Sawyer and he retrofit it into his idea of a sub-saharan african ak-47s and 10-year-olds warlord. Black isle Fallout 3 always kinda sounded stupid and comic booky to me honestly, don't know why they were hell bent on "adapting" parts of it to New Vegas.

>>3810046
>refuse to use guns
didn't play the game award.

>>3809855
No, it's not coherent enough to have a plot. That plot is basically people trying to fill in gaps and headcanon it into having some kind of actual structure.

>>3811195
>but da high level enemies use guns!
>it's da warrior tradition!
I don't care. The fact that the common legion grunts that are 90% of the NPCs use melee is completely contrived and comes across as laughable in a world where the impoverished player character can pick up an automatic weapon and explosives in 10 minutes. Melee in general is dumb in FNV because ammo and guns are so abundant that there is no compelling reason outside of self imposed RP to pick up a machete. The sci fi melee weapons are the only saving grace. Caesar's legion is still a contrived and bizarre faction that doesn't really fit in the heavy Americana-based setting of the rest of the game. It comes across as a some lazy tabletop idea (which it literally is, because Avellone is a hack)

>>3811453
You didn't play the game. Stop posting, retard.

>>3810131
>Fallout 3
Van Buren or the one we got?

>>3812281
thank you for your contribution. I accept your concession

>>3812341
black isle fallout 3 means van buren yes

>>3809874
>main point of moral conflict in the game is whether synths do have human consciousness
>the institute is on the "no" side of the argument, thus they justify the enslavement of synths
>yet their fundamental goal is logically dependent on the "yes" argument
Bravo Emil

>>3814923
I got 4 faction perspectives out of it:
the institute: replace humanity with synths (transhumanism)
the railroad: coexist with the synths (multiculturalism)
the brotherhood: destroy the synth replacements (nationalism)
the minutemen: who gives a shit about the synths?! (libertarianism)

>>3814970
given the context, I think the subtext is that the synths are supposed to be minorities

>>3814970
I think that does sum it up well, but the writing was so incoherent it's tenuous at best whether they even thought it through enough for that.

>>3815063
yeah I agree. it took awhile even to formulate the basic geist of each faction. better writing would've helped figure them all out easier/faster.
compare to Planescape: Torment where every faction wore their ideology on their sleeve and every character could write you an essay on what they believe and why do they do.
You couldn't get a basic straight answer from Shaun because the writers didn't have one (they couldn't believably write "Replace Humanity with Synths" as a rational choice for the players to take even for its radiate wasteland setting; it always comes off as evil and anti-human). he was written as a dumb person's idea of a smart villain.
Starfield is the future of Fallout 4 where the Institute won and the synths replaced humanity.

>>3809208
What are the esoteric narratives of Fallout 3 and 4?

>>3799949 (OP)
the build up to meeting him is cooler than actually meeting him

same with the institute I would have rather had multiple giant cells that we had to load into like NV versus that shitty hub with the elegancy of a Minecraft bedrock server

>>3814923
yeah father tells you that a synth is just a tool when you ask him to take responsibility for the rogue synths and yet he wants to replace humans with them. He doesn´t make any sense and you can´t even call him out on it

>>3800162
KEK
That'd make it so much better.
>spend a stupid amount of work to get synths working so you can live forever by transferring your brain to a synthetic body that's gonna last forever
>after you're work is almost done you find out you have brain cancer
This alone could save the institute.

>>3806279
>I played fallout 4 was when it came out and me and my friends were 17
Zoomer opinions are worth less than the garbage slop they play.

>>3814970
>the railroad: coexist with the synths
Except they're more than willing to sacrifice humanity for the sake of their precious over engineered toasters.
>multiculturalism
Exactly that.

>>3799976
This argument doesn't hold up when the U.S. is currently a technofeudal hellhole with multiple concentration camps.

>>3818440
That doesn't mean the Enclave is well written, it just means that the modern USA is badly written.

>>3799976
FO2 Enclave were meant to be a take-that at 1950s Americana/American Exceptionalism mixed with 1990s version.
Mutants = Communist Menace

>>3818407
It's not an opinion it's what happens in the game. How bout we walk you back to the memory ward grandpa? That sounds good?

>>3818623
is there a fallout spinoff yet where you are forced to side with mutants against humanity?
XCOM Chimera squad did it already.

>>3799949 (OP)
why is he in blackface?

>>3818671
>kids these days can't even read a simple post

>>3818678
Starship Troopers is so great because even though the director was trying to pan the book, he kinda wrapped around to the other end of the scale and ended up fucking nailing it, and accidentally made a good adaptation of the spirit of the book, if not all the details. I love the book and movie both for different reasons. The book is much more philosophical.

>>3818713
>The book is much more philosophical.
yes.
I like it when Heinlein just tears into Communism out of the blue in the book.

Is it really that hard to understand that when the Institute say they're doing stuff for the benefit of humanity they're talking about the future of humanity built of and by the people in the Institute. The Institute does not consider surface dwellers "humanity". So when they trash some settlement on the surface or chuck a few supermutants into the Commonwealth like it's their personal garbage dumb, that is them benefiting humanity inside the Institute at the expense of everyone else who they consider a lost cause.

>>3818719
>it remains a mud pie, value zero.
That's where you're wrong, caucasoid.

>>3799985
>your kid
Its not my kid. I didnt raised him, i didnt taught him anything, i didnt watch him grow etc. At best its my blood that was taken from me and now its an alien human being raised by genocidal idiots who is full of shit and is incapable of basic logic and empathy ( and i cant even call him out on it thanks to writers retardation and lazyness ).
>>3799949 (OP)
Tute is basically jews - secretive cabal that works tirelessly to fuck over people and then getting very surprised that these people are fucked over and despise them.

>>3799949 (OP)
Are you a pole or a jeet, nevermind. Retarded all the same

>>3819226
>i didnt taught him
nobody taught you, either.

>>3819242
My parents taught me everything i know, they raised me and helped me to brave the world.
That is why i am considered their kid.
Shaun is just a old stranger who happens to be thinly related to you by blood, might as well be some distant cousin or uncle you saw once in your life.
The writing in F4 is terrible and you should feel bad for defending it.

>>3819213
I've never considered the racial arbitrage over mud pies...
we could make billions...

>>3819313
plus the thought of the major "Mud Pie" corporation in the US that openly exports cakes of dirt with absolutely no nutritional value and with no pushback because of the the implication, makes me internally laugh my ass off

>>3799976
I never thought of Richardson as being the main villain because you only meet him briefly if at all. Frank Horrigan is the main villain.

>>3799976
The enclave in Fo2 is weak, but not weaker than Shaun. The main thing driving their evil of "we are the only real humans, everyone else are inhuman irradiated freaks" is good enough. The concept of "prewar feds killing everyone" is a good concept, its just that they are brought back out in 3 and later FNV which made the idea tired

>>3823224
I never get tired of the enclave desu. They're great. At least it actually makes sense that they exist in DC, it's the least egregious borrowing from the originals in FO3, though you kind of have to understand that that's what they thought fallout diehards wanted back then, rather than a total abandonment of muh lore for soulless corporate profits. Turns out you can't satisfy grumpy spergs whose lives peaked Christmas 1998.

don't let this thread die

>>3819649
I feel like the Enclave lacks a "main" villain really. The whole organization is the main villain. It's not like the Unity which has the Master or Caesar's Legion having... Caesar. Those factions have a central figure that powers the ideology behind it. The central figure for the Enclave, if it even had one is now nothing but a ghost. Richardson at best is just following a checklist by whoever was the last president who did the same. Frank Horrigan is just a suped up attack dog. At best you could maybe credit Richardson with the killer FEV but a similar goal could have been on the agenda since the reds launched the nukes. The Enclave doesn't look much different than the US soldier who shot the canadian rebel in the intro of F1.

>>3830054
>The Enclave doesn't look much different than the US soldier who shot the canadian rebel in the intro of F1.
I'm Johnny and I say kill 'em all

>>3830054
>horrigan murders vault dwellers in opening video
>horrigan is a random encounter where he murders some more people in game and then tells pc to fuck off
>horrigan is on video tape on bos bunker murdering bos
>game lacks main villian
nuhh-huhh

>>3800000
holy waste of a get
the game already wastes a lot of time talking at you, the intro alone is like 15 minutes of unskippable, barely interactive cutscenes, they surely could've spared the time to add a line explaining the institute wants, i dunno, use synths to clean the surface and to eventually come back up and create a proper technostate.

>>3830357
Horrigan is important but he's not the one calling the shots. He justs going along with the purity project. Hell he suffered directly from it when the Enclave raided Mariposa so the kool-aid The Enclave were offering him he has fully drinked. He is the final boss but not the main villain from a story perspective, at least imo.

>>3799949 (OP)
Shaun specifically isn't the problem, it's everything around him. Just the twist alone is retarded, Kellog looks the same as 50 years ago because some technology that is never mentioned or used ever again and he walks through the Wasteland with a 10 year old Shaun bot, like he knew the Player will look at his memories.
Him letting the player out of Cryo then leaving him to die is retarded
Don't even get me started on the Institute