I dont hate him but I don't care about him either. I think it might be because he doesnt have a face and there isn't that psychological bond that cames through facial recognition. I appreciate the theme of nihlism that he brings to the story but I wouldn't care if he died in the first half

>I think it might be because he doesnt have a face and there isn't that psychological bond that cames through facial recognition.
You were filterd by his lack of facial expressions? I think what makes his design work in tandem with his narrative is that he literally is just a generic Final Fantasy black mage. His blank, soulless illusion of a face hides his inner thoughts and feelings.
That all being said though, I wouldn't call Vivi my favorite character from FFIX. Probably a controversial opinion to FF normies, but I unironically like Zidane and Steiner much more. I know people rag on Zidane as a protagonist, but he's hard to hate (at least to me), and having a character that's relatively complete on an emotional level (except for that moment in Terra) is nice. Steiner's arc is simple, but so incredibly affective. Everything about his character development just falls into place so neatly; if hardly call his struggles complex, but they work wonderfully for Steiner as a main figure in FFIXs plot.

>>3800177
Can agree on Steiner, great character.
Don't hate Zidane, but I sympathized a lot with Steiners struggle and frustration often caused by his shenanigans. And yeah, his arc is great.

FF9 is kinda normieshit
7 feels less normie than 9 honestly

>>3800260
>7 feels less normie than 9 honestly
Well thats just objectively wrong.
And who cares if FFIX is more "normie"? Final Fnatasy is a normie franchise. Caring about what is and what isn't normie is a waste of time.

>>3800480
Ok at least tell me on why it's wrong, since you said it's objectively wrong so confidently

>>3800811
Completely ignoring the fact the game was/is much more popular (and financially successful) than IX, general audiences and the wider western market fully accepted the semi Sci-Fi/Sci-Fi esthetics of not just VII, but what was current Final Fantasy at the time. IXs fairytale-esc atmosphere was opposed to what most normies wanted (and expected) from the series tonally. Of course IXs whimsical mood is much more accepted now, but that's after years of IX generally being ignored by the wider market. It had to take people who played IX as children growing up and audiences giving the game a second chance for the title to reach the state of popularity it enjoys now.

And it doesn't take a genius to plainly see that VII has left more of a cultural impact on pop culture than IX has. Most "gamers" have probably played VII, the remakes, or at the very least know enough about the game to onions out whenever Cloud and Sephiroth show up somewhere. You'll more than likely meet many average people who have fond nostalgia for anything related to VII. But I doubt nearly as many people have touched IX (and that's really for any Final Fantasy game that isn't VI, VII, X, or XIV). And if they have played the entry, it was more than likely in the last couple of years due to the few people who do retain nostalgia for IX pushing the game pretty hard in their adulthood.
Would you mind explaining why you believe IX is "normieshit"?

>>3801097
>Completely ignoring the fact the game was/is much more popular (and financially successful) than IX, general audiences and the wider western market fully accepted the semi Sci-Fi/Sci-Fi esthetics of not just VII, but what was current Final Fantasy at the time. IXs fairytale-esc atmosphere was opposed to what most normies wanted (and expected) from the series tonally. Of course IXs whimsical mood is much more accepted now, but that's after years of IX generally being ignored by the wider market. It had to take people who played IX as children growing up and audiences giving the game a second chance for the title to reach the state of popularity it enjoys now.
Gotta throw a +1 on this. The irony being FFIX 'failed' because it tried to cash in on nostalaga.
Also gonna throw some fuel on the fire and remind everyone FF8 was a much more popular game than the haters would like to have you think.

>>3801122
>The irony being FFIX 'failed' because it tried to cash in on nostalaga.
It failed because of the lame and gay designs. 7 and 8 were cool.

>>3801097
Just because it's not as popular as FFVII doesn't mean it is less normieshit.
It's about how mainstream the themes and appeal it has on normal people.

FFVII ? You get characters with PTSDs causing mental illnesses and unhealthy attachments, disorders that normal people couldn't comprehend. And you also have Cloud that is literally an outlier among JRPG main characters - I doubt normies would understand him unless they are not a normie themselves - people who failed hard, got rejected socially.

FFIX? Every character is literally a sound person except maybe Vivi - whose only mental flaw is his naivety. It's easy for normies to vibe with that kind of setting - coupled with a fantasy setting that doesn't require any real world knowledge. It's basically a Ghibli movie. You get the quirky protag with Zidane as well. There is a solid conclusion with a happy romantic ending as well, compared to FF7's bittersweet, "at what cost" ending.

Maybe gameplay-wise FF7 is more accessible since it offered more customization and build variety, but in terms of story and themes, FF9 definitely resonates with normies more, focusing on optimism and being whimsical in general.

>>3801133
>normal people couldn't comprehend
>I doubt normies would understand him unless they are not a normie
7 isn't that crazy or unrelatable

>>3800169 (OP)

Sounds like a personal issue to me. I loved Vivi from the go and felt it was pretty brutal for an innocent kid just starting his life to be told he was nothing and that he would die soon. I also think the game did a great job building his personality through ATEs, interactions and how others spoke both of him and to him. Like, a seasoned soldier like Steiner saying how powerful he is and addressing him with the respect he would have shown to any great mage for example does wonders for both characters. It totally sells Vivi as a powerhouse and Steiner as a good guy that doesn´t discriminate or treat him as a child. Meanwhile Zidane treating him like a child keeps you from forgetting how harsh that blow was and tells you lots about Zidane too. Yes, he is a kind monkey but i also think he treats Vivi as a younger brother because he, himself would have wanted an older brother to guide him when he didn´t know who he was or where he came from.

You can tell a lot of psychology went into this game and that the writers took care to make it subtle and organic instead of being condescending toward their audience even though the intended audience were probably teens.

>>3800260
>7 feels less normie than 9 honestly

The fact that 7 is the most popular one among normies seems to contradict that hypothesis.

>>3801122
>The irony being FFIX 'failed' because it tried to cash in on nostalaga.
People say this as if FFIX is your typical post 2000s nostalgia bait slop, but FFIX honoring the past was a pretty novel thing before the 2010s.
Or at least, it wasn't done to desht like it is now.

>>3801133
>You get characters with PTSDs causing mental illnesses and unhealthy attachments, disorders that normal people couldn't comprehend. And you also have Cloud that is literally an outlier among JRPG main characters - I doubt normies would understand him unless they are not a normie themselves - people who failed hard, got rejected socially.
You act like this is some avant-garde thing that only the nichest of media does. I can think of a shit ton of popular Hollywood films that tackle all the subjects FFVII does. A narrative and cast being simple and easy to understand doesn't somehow make them normieshit. I mean, if it did, it wouldn't have taken so long for FFIX to get as beloved as it is now. If anything, one could argue a mentally put-together cast could drive general audiences away. Think about how many pieces of popular media deal with characters that put up with mental illness. Normies love it when they can relate to someone who's going through emotional tribulations because they like to see themselves in them. Normies enjoy the IDEA of PTSD, depression, mental illness, etc because it helps victimize themselves/make them "unique".
>You get the quirky protag with Zidane as well.
There's nothing "quirky" about Zidane. He's a pretty average protagonist with a slight hint of snark and wit.

>>3801177
>Normies love it when they can relate to someone who's going through emotional tribulations
Do you not?

>>3801186
Well I rarely make such personal bonds with other people, let alone fictional characters. Not to say that I'm incapable of understanding what a character/and or person's issues are, I simply never get attached. Even with entities that go through the same things I do.

>>3801209
It's not about bonding with characters, just exploring subjects through fiction, and relatable shit can obviously hit harder. Getting attached or even liking a character is by no means required.

>>3801133
It's easy for normies to vibe with that kind of setting - coupled with a fantasy setting that doesn't require any real world knowledge. It's basically a Ghibli movie. You get the quirky protag with Zidane as well. There is a solid conclusion with a happy romantic ending as well, compared to FF7's bittersweet, "at what cost" ending.
You've forgotten one of the most important themes of IX. Mortality and acceptance of inevitability. Sure, Zidane and Garnet end up together, but did you forget the part where Vivi died offscreen? Not to mention the outcome of the worlds' merging is left ambiguous. I mean, the protagonists basically lost, all things considered. Quite different than how you've described it.

The evidence that FF7 is the more game with "normies" should be obvious by the fact it got a three-part AAA slopmake that many people bought entire consoles to play.

>>3801524
Whoops, forgot to greentext, sorry lads

>Game sells 5.5 million copies
>People call it a failure
If was the first RPG I played, there is nostalgia but that isn't the point of the game like revisionists say.
VII and VIII built most of the western audience and IX appeared too childish for many to try. Many were disappointed with VIII because they couldn't figure out how to play it (many cases back then), the previous game's popularity affects sales of the current one.
The PS2.
Also, the PS2 released a month before IX did in the US and magazines were already hyping X.
Also, OP, Vivi does not "bring nihilism to the story," there's nothing nihilistic about Vivi.

>Game sells 5.5 million copies
>People call it a failure
It was the first RPG I played, there is nostalgia for longtime FF fans but that isn't the point of the game like revisionists say and isn't required to enjoy it.
VII and VIII built most of the western jrpg audience and IX appeared too childish for many to try. Many were disappointed with VIII because they couldn't figure out how to play it (many cases back then), the previous game's popularity affects sales of the current one.
Also, **the PS2 released a month before IX did in the US** and magazines were already hyping X.
Also, OP, Vivi does not "bring nihilism to the story," there's nothing nihilistic about Vivi.

>>3801535
I also had nostalgia for IX, but for some reason it wasn't as vivid as VII was. VII had much more impactful moments, and the themes resonated much more as an adult

>>3800169 (OP)
this entire post says more about you than it does about the game, honestly.

>>3801122
>FF8 was a much more popular game than the haters would like to have you think.
Okay. I'll bite. How much of that was FF8 riding on the coattails of 7 though?
Or how much was 9 hampered by 8's reception and selling on an EoL console?
Especially since we see X explode not long after on the PS2.

>>3810582
8 got so much magazine hype it was crazy. also the graphics just looked amazing. imagine seeing crash bandicoot and ff7s low poly people and then you see real humans and sci-fi settings that look like they’re out of movies. lots of it was pre rendered or painted or whatever, but just going by the screenshots it looked amazing compared to everything else at the time.

>>3801535
>the previous game's popularity affects sales of the current one
Cope myth