Thread 3800169

I dont hate him but I don't care about him either. I think it might be because he doesnt have a face and there isn't that psychological bond that cames through facial recognition. I appreciate the theme of nihlism that he brings to the story but I wouldn't care if he died in the first half

>I think it might be because he doesnt have a face and there isn't that psychological bond that cames through facial recognition.
You were filterd by his lack of facial expressions? I think what makes his design work in tandem with his narrative is that he literally is just a generic Final Fantasy black mage. His blank, soulless illusion of a face hides his inner thoughts and feelings.
That all being said though, I wouldn't call Vivi my favorite character from FFIX. Probably a controversial opinion to FF normies, but I unironically like Zidane and Steiner much more. I know people rag on Zidane as a protagonist, but he's hard to hate (at least to me), and having a character that's relatively complete on an emotional level (except for that moment in Terra) is nice. Steiner's arc is simple, but so incredibly affective. Everything about his character development just falls into place so neatly; if hardly call his struggles complex, but they work wonderfully for Steiner as a main figure in FFIXs plot.

>>3800177
Can agree on Steiner, great character.
Don't hate Zidane, but I sympathized a lot with Steiners struggle and frustration often caused by his shenanigans. And yeah, his arc is great.

FF9 is kinda normieshit
7 feels less normie than 9 honestly

>>3800260
>7 feels less normie than 9 honestly
Well thats just objectively wrong.
And who cares if FFIX is more "normie"? Final Fnatasy is a normie franchise. Caring about what is and what isn't normie is a waste of time.

>>3800480
Ok at least tell me on why it's wrong, since you said it's objectively wrong so confidently

>>3800811
Completely ignoring the fact the game was/is much more popular (and financially successful) than IX, general audiences and the wider western market fully accepted the semi Sci-Fi/Sci-Fi esthetics of not just VII, but what was current Final Fantasy at the time. IXs fairytale-esc atmosphere was opposed to what most normies wanted (and expected) from the series tonally. Of course IXs whimsical mood is much more accepted now, but that's after years of IX generally being ignored by the wider market. It had to take people who played IX as children growing up and audiences giving the game a second chance for the title to reach the state of popularity it enjoys now.

And it doesn't take a genius to plainly see that VII has left more of a cultural impact on pop culture than IX has. Most "gamers" have probably played VII, the remakes, or at the very least know enough about the game to onions out whenever Cloud and Sephiroth show up somewhere. You'll more than likely meet many average people who have fond nostalgia for anything related to VII. But I doubt nearly as many people have touched IX (and that's really for any Final Fantasy game that isn't VI, VII, X, or XIV). And if they have played the entry, it was more than likely in the last couple of years due to the few people who do retain nostalgia for IX pushing the game pretty hard in their adulthood.
Would you mind explaining why you believe IX is "normieshit"?

>>3801097
>Completely ignoring the fact the game was/is much more popular (and financially successful) than IX, general audiences and the wider western market fully accepted the semi Sci-Fi/Sci-Fi esthetics of not just VII, but what was current Final Fantasy at the time. IXs fairytale-esc atmosphere was opposed to what most normies wanted (and expected) from the series tonally. Of course IXs whimsical mood is much more accepted now, but that's after years of IX generally being ignored by the wider market. It had to take people who played IX as children growing up and audiences giving the game a second chance for the title to reach the state of popularity it enjoys now.
Gotta throw a +1 on this. The irony being FFIX 'failed' because it tried to cash in on nostalaga.
Also gonna throw some fuel on the fire and remind everyone FF8 was a much more popular game than the haters would like to have you think.

>>3801122
>The irony being FFIX 'failed' because it tried to cash in on nostalaga.
It failed because of the lame and gay designs. 7 and 8 were cool.

>>3801097
Just because it's not as popular as FFVII doesn't mean it is less normieshit.
It's about how mainstream the themes and appeal it has on normal people.

FFVII ? You get characters with PTSDs causing mental illnesses and unhealthy attachments, disorders that normal people couldn't comprehend. And you also have Cloud that is literally an outlier among JRPG main characters - I doubt normies would understand him unless they are not a normie themselves - people who failed hard, got rejected socially.

FFIX? Every character is literally a sound person except maybe Vivi - whose only mental flaw is his naivety. It's easy for normies to vibe with that kind of setting - coupled with a fantasy setting that doesn't require any real world knowledge. It's basically a Ghibli movie. You get the quirky protag with Zidane as well. There is a solid conclusion with a happy romantic ending as well, compared to FF7's bittersweet, "at what cost" ending.

Maybe gameplay-wise FF7 is more accessible since it offered more customization and build variety, but in terms of story and themes, FF9 definitely resonates with normies more, focusing on optimism and being whimsical in general.

>>3801133
>normal people couldn't comprehend
>I doubt normies would understand him unless they are not a normie
7 isn't that crazy or unrelatable

>>3800169 (OP)

Sounds like a personal issue to me. I loved Vivi from the go and felt it was pretty brutal for an innocent kid just starting his life to be told he was nothing and that he would die soon. I also think the game did a great job building his personality through ATEs, interactions and how others spoke both of him and to him. Like, a seasoned soldier like Steiner saying how powerful he is and addressing him with the respect he would have shown to any great mage for example does wonders for both characters. It totally sells Vivi as a powerhouse and Steiner as a good guy that doesn´t discriminate or treat him as a child. Meanwhile Zidane treating him like a child keeps you from forgetting how harsh that blow was and tells you lots about Zidane too. Yes, he is a kind monkey but i also think he treats Vivi as a younger brother because he, himself would have wanted an older brother to guide him when he didn´t know who he was or where he came from.

You can tell a lot of psychology went into this game and that the writers took care to make it subtle and organic instead of being condescending toward their audience even though the intended audience were probably teens.

>>3800260
>7 feels less normie than 9 honestly

The fact that 7 is the most popular one among normies seems to contradict that hypothesis.

>>3801122
>The irony being FFIX 'failed' because it tried to cash in on nostalaga.
People say this as if FFIX is your typical post 2000s nostalgia bait slop, but FFIX honoring the past was a pretty novel thing before the 2010s.
Or at least, it wasn't done to desht like it is now.

>>3801133
>You get characters with PTSDs causing mental illnesses and unhealthy attachments, disorders that normal people couldn't comprehend. And you also have Cloud that is literally an outlier among JRPG main characters - I doubt normies would understand him unless they are not a normie themselves - people who failed hard, got rejected socially.
You act like this is some avant-garde thing that only the nichest of media does. I can think of a shit ton of popular Hollywood films that tackle all the subjects FFVII does. A narrative and cast being simple and easy to understand doesn't somehow make them normieshit. I mean, if it did, it wouldn't have taken so long for FFIX to get as beloved as it is now. If anything, one could argue a mentally put-together cast could drive general audiences away. Think about how many pieces of popular media deal with characters that put up with mental illness. Normies love it when they can relate to someone who's going through emotional tribulations because they like to see themselves in them. Normies enjoy the IDEA of PTSD, depression, mental illness, etc because it helps victimize themselves/make them "unique".
>You get the quirky protag with Zidane as well.
There's nothing "quirky" about Zidane. He's a pretty average protagonist with a slight hint of snark and wit.

>>3801177
>Normies love it when they can relate to someone who's going through emotional tribulations
Do you not?

>>3801186
Well I rarely make such personal bonds with other people, let alone fictional characters. Not to say that I'm incapable of understanding what a character/and or person's issues are, I simply never get attached. Even with entities that go through the same things I do.

>>3801209
It's not about bonding with characters, just exploring subjects through fiction, and relatable shit can obviously hit harder. Getting attached or even liking a character is by no means required.

>>3801133
It's easy for normies to vibe with that kind of setting - coupled with a fantasy setting that doesn't require any real world knowledge. It's basically a Ghibli movie. You get the quirky protag with Zidane as well. There is a solid conclusion with a happy romantic ending as well, compared to FF7's bittersweet, "at what cost" ending.
You've forgotten one of the most important themes of IX. Mortality and acceptance of inevitability. Sure, Zidane and Garnet end up together, but did you forget the part where Vivi died offscreen? Not to mention the outcome of the worlds' merging is left ambiguous. I mean, the protagonists basically lost, all things considered. Quite different than how you've described it.

The evidence that FF7 is the more game with "normies" should be obvious by the fact it got a three-part AAA slopmake that many people bought entire consoles to play.

>>3801524
Whoops, forgot to greentext, sorry lads

>Game sells 5.5 million copies
>People call it a failure
If was the first RPG I played, there is nostalgia but that isn't the point of the game like revisionists say.
VII and VIII built most of the western audience and IX appeared too childish for many to try. Many were disappointed with VIII because they couldn't figure out how to play it (many cases back then), the previous game's popularity affects sales of the current one.
The PS2.
Also, the PS2 released a month before IX did in the US and magazines were already hyping X.
Also, OP, Vivi does not "bring nihilism to the story," there's nothing nihilistic about Vivi.

>Game sells 5.5 million copies
>People call it a failure
It was the first RPG I played, there is nostalgia for longtime FF fans but that isn't the point of the game like revisionists say and isn't required to enjoy it.
VII and VIII built most of the western jrpg audience and IX appeared too childish for many to try. Many were disappointed with VIII because they couldn't figure out how to play it (many cases back then), the previous game's popularity affects sales of the current one.
Also, **the PS2 released a month before IX did in the US** and magazines were already hyping X.
Also, OP, Vivi does not "bring nihilism to the story," there's nothing nihilistic about Vivi.

>>3801535
I also had nostalgia for IX, but for some reason it wasn't as vivid as VII was. VII had much more impactful moments, and the themes resonated much more as an adult

>>3800169 (OP)
this entire post says more about you than it does about the game, honestly.

>>3801122
>FF8 was a much more popular game than the haters would like to have you think.
Okay. I'll bite. How much of that was FF8 riding on the coattails of 7 though?
Or how much was 9 hampered by 8's reception and selling on an EoL console?
Especially since we see X explode not long after on the PS2.

>>3810582
8 got so much magazine hype it was crazy. also the graphics just looked amazing. imagine seeing crash bandicoot and ff7s low poly people and then you see real humans and sci-fi settings that look like they’re out of movies. lots of it was pre rendered or painted or whatever, but just going by the screenshots it looked amazing compared to everything else at the time.

>>3801535
>the previous game's popularity affects sales of the current one
Cope myth

>>3800169 (OP)
I wish the porn game makers would focus more on wholesome straight shota content featuring boy adventurers and vulnerable milfs.

>>3810582
Not as much as people would like to imply, given how the remasters of 8 and 9 performed. It is related mostly to the marketing each game had rather than reception to the prior game.

I am still upset that you cannot romance Freya in FFIX
This was the thing that broke JRPGs for me forever: no angecy
Literally every single girl in the whole game is better than your inescapable canon romance
and the monster girl is always the most unreachable
rinoa is fucking boring. I wanted to quistis
I wanted yuffie, not aerith
I wanted freya not garnet

>>3810804
My neighbor had a ton of extra memory cards and would make save files right before all the cutscenes so we could watch them at a friends house.

>>3818080
What a bro.

>>3810804
I bought brave fencer musashi to play the ff8 demo

>>3800169 (OP)
This is a kids movie. I'm playing it for the first time and it's a kids movie. Very charming.

I don't think it's emphasized enough

>>3800177
>I know people rag on Zidane as a protagonist, but he's hard to hate
People rag on Zidane? /v/ loves Tidus and Zidane isn't too dissimilar from him.

>>3800169 (OP)
>I think it might be because he doesnt have a face and there isn't that psychological bond that cames through facial recognition
skill issue. this is why character design is so uniform these days. gotta have a "relatable" hero.

>>3820820
>This is a kids movie
Most FF9 diehard fans are kids in adults body pretending that its deeper than it is.

>>3821582
Kids movies can have depth. I'm just surprised I haven't heard anyone describe FF9 as such.

9 is the weakest of the SNES/PSX era FFs and I refuse to pretend otherwise.

>>3821910
Nah, IX sucks, but it's a straight upgrade from IV.

>>3821955
Anything after 7 mogs what came before

>>3800169 (OP)
rent free

>>3801535
>there is nostalgia for longtime FF fans but that isn't the point of the game like revisionists say
this is the most annoying talking point retarded ff9 haters love to spam. 9 stands on its own merits easily.

>>3800169 (OP)
The ugly character designs definitely hurt 9 but the story is just overly cruel.
It's biggest problem is how railroaded and linear it is followed by ability learning tied to equipment so that you are always using bad equipment and the constant party composition switching making this very annoying. 8 let you instantly swap what was equipped when the party changed.
Mini-games were also terrible. I think they actually changed the chocobo one on the newest cash-in release version to make it less awful. Not even going to talk about the cards, beyond pointless.
Stealing is also awful due to the combination of low success, bosses all having equipment and equipment being tied to learning abilities.

Of the 11 real Final Fantasy games I only rank this one above 2j.

>>3821986
>this is the most annoying talking point retarded ff9 haters love to spam
FF9 being a homage to previous titles was originally a defense used by fans when people complained about the styling. Haters aren't looking to justify why a game is crap.

How is FF9 like the old FFs, even?

>>3822211
It's not. At all. The marketing was 'it has crystals', and two of the ugly character designs are from FF1 classes. It was a marketing slogan. That's all it ever was.

>>3822211
It's not Usual FF concepts and names appear throughout the game but that's it.

>>3821981
VI = VII

Am I a retard for not getting the card game

>>3825537
No, you're not. I'm going to skip over the complexities of cards stats, because while complex, do actually make sense when explained.

The big problem with the game is the stats, when used, are randomized each time. A card with an attack of 5 will have an attack stat of 0-5 when attacking and a card with a defense stat of F (15 since it's all in hexadecimal) will have from 0-15*. This can cause battles to wildly swing and makes the game harder to follow, and none of this is explained.

There's also a hidden mechanic where cards can level up their stats based on wins but, due to a bug, this isn't visible on the enemies cards. So it's possible for enemy cards to have a higher stat than they appear. Not that you'll notice with the way

*note: the stat used is multiplied by 16 (F) then randomized, which is why the displayed numbers can go as high as 255. Making the card stats in single-digit Hex then switching to numerical for attacking/defending is just bad design.

>>3825564
Gacha mechanics in an offline single player game from 2000.

>>3825564
Is it normal to have 0M00 or something on all cards? Confusing when the tutorial explains the numbers but they're zeros, then card battles have some arbitrary numbers and how to hell am I supposed to gauge their strengths

>>3825658
>Is it normal to have 0M00 or something on all cards?
Yes, the card is weak but you can still use the arrows to attack an undefended side and capture other cards.

>Card battles have some arbitrary numbers and how to hell am I supposed to gauge their strengths
The first number is the attack power the second two numbers are the two different types of defense, they're in hexadecimal so multiply it by 16 and that's the maximum possible attack/defense (the actual attack/defense is randomized each time). So a card with 0x12 has 0-15 attack, 0-31 physical defense and 0-47 magic defense. With F (0-255) being the maximum possible.

It should be completely intuitive if you're an aspie.

>>3825752
Hey I appreciate you taking time to teach this. I think I got it.
>you can still use the arrows to attack an undefended side and capture other cards.
This is an important part I missed. Now I have something to aim for besides blind luck.

I wonder if they really had to make the card game this obtuse... FF8's was simple to pick up and play. But maybe it's worth it.

>>3825777
Spoiler: No.

>>3825777
You're welcome. The only other thing worth mention is the 2nd letter, P attacks the opponents physical def, M - Magical def., X and A attack the lower stat (A can also use the enemies attack stat). But given how the stats scale up for more powerful cards and how random the actual value used is, this is rarely worth paying attention to.

>But maybe it's worth it
No, it's not. The only reward you can get for playing is more cards. And a title for getting all cards and leveling them all up to max - but even that is bugged and doesn't work properly.

Tetra master was an attempt to emulate what they did with Tripple Triad in VIII. IX is noted for paying tributes to earlier entries in the series but it seems they messed, the rewards/refining were one of the reasons people played TT so much and the random rule was universally hated, so why they got it backwards and made the random essence mandatory and removed the rewards is anybodies guess. People also loved the music and simplicity of Tripple triad so not explaining and making the rules convoluted and using a lackluster theme is beyond me. Maybe it's literal irony and they made it bad on purpose.

>>3825752
Do you have a source for the attack power being randomized thing? I thought it was either a half byte with randomness or a full byte with the lower digit hidden (which explains the random).