What are some rpgs where status effects like poison and sleep are actually useful for the player?

>>3803083 (OP)
FF6
Gau has a rage that inflicts permanent charm with a 100% success rate against all enemies, including bosses, as no enemies have resistance to it. Can make the final boss kill himself with it.

>>3803120
Good example of a status being totally broken. Even outside that, statuses are more effective in Final Fantasy games than they're often given credit for. Many bosses have some status they're weak to that can cripple them. Some games like FFIV DS, it's basically necessary to cast Slow and other statuses on bosses.

In FFVI, Berserk is another one that's useful, casting it on MagiMaster. Combine it with vanish to make your team invincible while you drain his MP away. Berserk works well on the mage enemies in the tower.

>>3803125
Fanatic Tower was great fun. I'm going to play the GBA version of FFVI one day soon because I never did and I want to do the extra content. I hate that the pixel remasters didn't come with all the extras added to games throughout the years. It's for that reason I'm not buying them.

>>3803127
>I'm going to play the GBA version of FFVI one day soon because I never did and I want to do the extra content. I hate that the pixel remasters didn't come with all the extras added to games throughout the years.
I've been wanting to try Dragon's Den and the other extras in the GBA version for a long time. It does sucks they're not in later releases. I wish somebody would make a hack that adds them into the SNES version, so we could play with the better sound and graphics along with the extras.

I've also been playing some hacks like T-Edition, which is really cool.

>>3803083 (OP)
On FFX I used them all. Blind, sleep, silence, poison, provoke, threaten, zombie. On my last playthrough I kept the slow and petrify weapons on Tidus and Wakka almost all the way through. Rikku too got a stonetouch weapon and 1 hit killed those giant turtles inside sin while mugging

FF12 has that funny set-up where you have a person with the "item effects are revered" accessory and use an Remedy and it tries to apply every status ailment in the game and the ones that can affect the boss stick

>>3803083 (OP)
All Etrian games and spin offs
Enchant Farm

>>3803125
In FFV most bosses are vulnerable to one status effect or another. Even parts of Neo Exdeath can be turned to stone, instakilled by Odin or Slowed. A Blue Mage can comfortably solo the game by exploiting the weaknesses of most bosses.
I guess many playes tend to overlevel and just ungabunga every fight and come away with the idea that casting statuses is worthless most of the time.

>>3803311
>I guess many playes tend to overlevel and just ungabunga every fight and come away with the idea that casting statuses is worthless most of the time.

the problem with status ailments are:
The things you want to use them on are immune to them
The things you can use them on die too fast for them to be useful

>>3803315
My biggest problem has been a lack of indication if the status worked, missed, was resisted or whatever. I think the latest one was FFV with some abilities that I didn't even know the effect of. No feedback.

Then unreliable buggyness comes to mind, like blinding not working on VI

>>3803083 (OP)
MT/SMT
You can make a lot of enemies, bosses included, your bitch if you can keep up statuses.

>>3803311
Poorly designed games "balance" status effects by making their effectiveness obscure guesswork. If the game is playable without them, most players won't bother.

>>3803418
I mean, what else do you want, fucking markers on top of every enemy telling you the weakness?

>>3803443
Yeah, I want not only for weaknesses to be clearly indicated, but I want to be rewarded for hitting them in ways that aren't just
>extra damage
>the status effect worked
That's why shit like Octopath is fun to me, and to a lesser extent smirk-era SMT.

>>3803443
That's what the scholar job does in FF3.

>>3803311
>A Blue Mage can comfortably solo the game by exploiting the weaknesses of most bosses.
Yeah. I like how many bosses you can hit with Dark Spark (cuts level in half) and Level 2 Old to manipulate their level. So something might not be vulnerable to Level 5 Death, but will be after you cut their level in half. (Atomos is level 41, 41/2 rounded down = 20).

>>3803443
That, or some way to scout the enemy, or a way to learn outside of battle, or at least feedback on if a miss was poor luck or will never work.

>>3803446
>>3803448
I feel like something is lost when you do this. Even abilities like analyze take away some of the element of discovery from the game. It's like you aren't even trying to sell the fantasy anymore and reduce the game to a bunch of math.

>>3803315
I think the problem is subtler than that. For example, even if sleep is useless against one goblin, it may be useful against 9 of them when your mage is low on MP/vancian casts. Or you could use petrify to disable adds from a boss fight that would respawn if killed.
The real problem is whether the encounter design and attrition dynamics can put you in those situations to begin with.

>>3803083 (OP)
all the gold box games, sleep is retardedly broken in d&d

>>3803083 (OP)
Some snes era RPGs would make use of status effects, I remember buying items to decrease armour & up attack quicker than casting magic. Poison, sleep or paralyze were always useful; I'm probably thinking mostly 'Atlus' snes era RPGS and some ps1 rpgs where status effects actually did something useful; Earthbound has some good status effects, but outside of FF games I've always been underwhelmed by the options as most of the time you don't even need the status effects to get a win.

Some gameboy/GBA rpgs make good use of status effects, Demon Slayer Revelations, Golden Sun, Pokemon and such.

Stone/Petrify is one I sometimes see in rpgs that is broken if there's a reflect spell, trivialises most fights

>>3803125
You can completely shut down the second Seymour fight with provoke and reflect. Poison is also reliable and you can zombie (but not Phoenix Down) BFA.

>>3803315
this
>Here's all this complex shit you can do
>but just mashing the attack button easily defeats everything
Welcome to jrpgs.

I will NEVER forgive Bravely Default for giving you a mage masher before a fight with a black mage who is IMMUNE. TO. SILENCE.

Even more frustrating is that silencing Ominas could've been used to teach the player that you could Brave to remove a status ailment then attack, but it would cost you your next turn.

>>3803125
>Slow
Speed control is often the dominant strategy in every game that it features in. Slow/delay enemies + haste/accelerate allies.

>>3803618
t. "OMFG YOU HAVE TO GRIND SO MUCH WOWWWWWWW THIS GAME IS ASSS NO I WONT USE DEBUFFS OR STATUS EFFECTS"

The Sleep spell trivializes any boss in Tengai Makyou.

>>3803618
>>Here's all this complex shit you can do
>>but just mashing the attack button easily defeats everything
>Welcome to jrpgs.

some are worse about this than others, with FFXV taking the cake. Didn't even bother trying new weapon types or attack skills because of how fucking easy that game is

>>3803130
There is a hack to add the SNES music to the GBA version.

>>3803311
>I guess many playes tend to overlevel and just ungabunga every fight
I mean yeah don't most people just spam the move that hits four times?

>>3803640
Yeah. Notably, almost the whole Kiseki series.

>>3804195
Yup, and another hack to adjust the colors. Still not quite as good as the SNES version, but it's something at least.

>>3803083 (OP)
Does SRPG counts? Recently I played Tactics Ogre Reborn and at some point instead of offensive magic my wizard is just spamming sleep spell. Two of my knights also have the sword tech that cause poison and I abused the hell out of it especially against big monsters with shitton of HP.

>>3803480
I really appreciated how FFX would explicitly say IMMUNE, instead of giving you a generic MISS pop up.

>>3803083 (OP)

Wooden Ocean

SaGa Scarlet Grace has some very potent status effects. A decent amount of bosses can potentially be susceptible to them as well. Taking off large chunks of HP through poison damage to landing a clutch paralysis. You won't just be using them against bosses, but regular enemies as well. There is also a lot more depth to Scarlet Grace beyond just useful status effects, like action distribution across your party due to sharing the same action point pool to perform skills for a turn, or setting up your counter attacks, interrupts, or disabling an enemies ability to do so.

Romancing SaGa 2 has decent usage of status effects so you can safely down enemies through blinding magics, or disabling enemies that can one or two shot characters with paralysis and stuns. Don't expect to cheese the big seven with status effects on the other hand, but you will be still using them for most of the game.

Saboteurs are mandatory in every major fight in FF13. That game is honestly the best balanced combat the series has ever had, everything is useful and there's plenty of tricks to eke out more effectiveness.

I like how Dragon Quest handles it, put everyone on auto and the AI knows what status works.

>>3804616
Yeah I appreciated that.

Good combat is where every turn matters, so ideally they shouldn't be wasted on uncertainty and guesswork. Nothing is more disappointing than realizing you wasted a turn when even the basic attack command would have done more.

>>3803311
>many playes tend to overlevel and just ungabunga every fight and come away with the idea that casting statuses is worthless most of the time.
I don't even grind and run away from most fights, and FFV is still pretty easy to "unga bunga" as long as you're combining job abilities effectively. Doing a four job fiesta is the point where statuses start to shine, because when you have limited spellsets, you start trying to make the most of them out of necessity. It's amusing how many bosses are actually weak to being blinded, poisoned, silenced, or paralyzed.

>>3803337
>My biggest problem has been a lack of indication if the status worked, missed, was resisted or whatever. I think the latest one was FFV with some abilities that I didn't even know the effect of. No feedback.
There is SOME feedback—if the animation plays, the status effect worked. If the animation doesn't play, it means it either didn't work, or the boss is immune. It's not a comprehensive breakdown of what exactly is happening, but I honestly feel like that was intentional design and not some sort of oversight. As for not even knowing what the status effect is, that kind of stuff would have been in the original manual, so I don't think it's a very valid complaint.

>>3805773
>Good combat is where every turn matters, so ideally they shouldn't be wasted on uncertainty and guesswork.
the uncertainty is part of it. The games were based on the concept of D&D, and when you play D&D, you aren't given a list of status effects each enemy is weak to, nor are you told what number you have to roll in order to get something to work or hit—you're just told whether you fail or succeed. If you ask a DM why, they're not going to tell you, nor should they.

Having everything spelled out for you in HUDs is just something that modern, coddled gamers want because they need every battle to have a clear and obvious "win" button.

>>3805885
>but in D&D..
Who gives a shit
>every battle to have a clear and obvious "win" button.
That's grinding, which wouldnt be the path of least resistance if other means were designed to be more fucking FUN

>>3805885
You're talking to a min-maxer that needs to squeeze maximum efficiency from their turns. Espousing anything that makes a RPG a RPG will make them recoil. They just have to accept that most games they play won't out right tell then weaknesses and resistances. That they have to experiment and certain pivotal skills might miss.

>>3805978
I'll just read a guide instead of experimenting. Thank you for your attention to this matter!

>>3804196
The thing about Rapid Fire is that it's locked behind dumping a ton of AP into an otherwise shit class that up to that point can only summon squirrels. Same with Dualcast: it's a Red Mage ability and Red Mage is an early game class that caps out at level 2 spells and falls off hard afterwards. It's the sort of thing that's conventional wisdom today due to internet word-of-mouth, but back when the game came out most people probably wouldn't bother grinding out Hunter or RM for hours just to see what happens.

>>3803083 (OP)
FF5 and 10.

>>3806192
For Dualcast i used Magic Pots and Movers.
For Rapid Fire i just played with the Ranger, ts not that bad if you use the elemental bows.

>>3805885
I think a key point is that in tabletop, the DM will describe what happened in a way that lets you know if the boss has a defense against what you were trying to do, they're just immune, or if you fucked up. The biggest thing that players complain about is lack of information, and a good DM will subtly give players the information, just not as a big obvious list.

>>3803443
>>3803446
Issue for most games is status effects are one and done. If they can time out, a character can shake them off, or an enemy can use the right thing to remove them it's less of an issue.

SaGa does these.

>>3804196
most people just spam gil toss

>>3805885
>it's another 'generalizing one method of playing D&D into somehow representative of the game as a whole and indeed the ideal version of it' episode
nah
sometimes you get jack shit
sometimes you get another player who knows
sometimes you roll your fucking knowledge and get hints
sometimes you get to straight up check the monster manual entry
sometimes you already know it's a fucking troll and you use fire/acid on those

>>3806629
>sometimes you already know it's a fucking troll and you use fire/acid on those
I have more fun having memorized enemies and being able to use effective "strategies" against them. I think it's a shame if a new player doesn't have that experience.

>>3806635
>memorizing enemies
ya this is what I miss from the classic 2D final fantasies. basically you had the same enemy cast in each game so once you know their weakness. sometimes they carry it over though. like all fish are weak to lightning and all undead are weak to holy.

>>3807623
Didn't that more or less carry over to 3D FFs

>>3805885
>But D&D did it
Yes, we know.

with some exceptions, debuffing is crucial in FF13

>>3803136
and they all become useless when doing postgame content

>>3807641
My only experience of postgame content is stumbling upon those witch sisters and gettting immediately BTFOd. Yep, I imagine they're not cheesable with status effects.