Is Disco Elysium really as good as Planescape Torment?

it's better because Planescape Torment is bogged down by the use of Infinity Engine and Western Devs not knowing they can actually make visual novels w/o combat.

>>3803662 (OP)
you really needed another thread for this question?
also Doctor Monroe Island would be cool idea for story driven RPG, just put a lot of gore like in Statis or Sanitarium

Ultimately, you can't really compare them. One aims to advance the genre to score higher than high fantasy (whatever the fuck "avant-guarde fantasy" thing actually meant when they pitched it to Interplay) and the other tries to hijack the idea of a "detective RPG" to tell a story about some guy's torment by their haunting past. One tries to do more interesting things than average and the other doesn't really try to compete and just shows things they think are interesting.
Both of them feature really unwrangled writing, but with one you have someone who doesn't entertain the idea of an upper limit in writing (later on having his companion in New Vegas cut because his fat voiced ass was taking too much disk space) and the other being chronically online on Twitter and deciding that the entire game's dialogue style should read like a conversation from there. Former gets to absurd levels (especially with that UPDATED MY JOURNAL ding that caused me to burst into laughter multiple times during pretty serious dialogues due to how offhand it gets), latter can instantly ruin the moment when you recognize the particular Twitter character this caricature represents.
Both games have really good art with Disco Elysium being better on average but Planescape having these absurd spell animations that feel like interplanar bowling that win over me.
A lot of Planescape's combat could be streamlined even more. Disco's White/Red Checks, the Thought Cabinet and flavor descriptions for why exactly this one thing ups your skills were implemented a bit better, though the item descriptions in Planescape are also very nice.
Overall, I'd say that Planescape is the better game overall, but Disco is just bound to appeal to more people out there. It's just whether you get can get moved by more abstract ideas and philosophies in Planescape or more "real" and direct approaches in Disco. Also a shame we never got Lustmord's original OST for Planescape, Disco's OST is better.

>>3803663
Americans invented visual novels anon. It's just that they wanted to make a game + narrative combo

>>3803662 (OP)
>better writing
>better art
>better music
>has a custom-made mechanical system actually suited for what it is trying to do instead of slapping crutches onto fucking AD&D2e
>doesn't make you do god awful combat because "hey that's what an AD&D player will expect!"
yes it's a better game

>>3803662 (OP)
No lmao

>>3803789
>doesn't make you do god awful combat because "hey that's what an AD&D player will expect!"
Honestly that's one of the things Disco really nails. And I say this as someone who appreciates Disco as art but doesn't like it as a game.
Lots of games have moments of violence that are supposed to be meaningful story-wise. But to get to that point the player has killed literally hundreds of people.
Disco has one scripted "battle" and a handful of mostly-optional violent scenes. It is a lot easier to sell those as important given how comparatively rare they are.

>>3803663
Planescape Torment combat might be weak, but it's a better game for having it. Both for having the option of fighting and because the fighting can still be fun.

>>3803663
I mean, one of Chris Avellone's regrets was not adding more combat to the game.
> He also stated that he would make a few changes to the game's design if it was being developed now, most of which related to the game's combat. Saying he'd throw more combat into the beginning of the game, Avellone explained, "The beginning is very slow and exposition-heavy, and I don't think that helps get the player into the mystery of his character. [...] Also, I would work more extensively in creating more dungeon and exploration areas, and do another pass on the combat mechanics in the game - the story and quest structure in the game ended up becoming the primary focus of design, and I think the game suffered as a whole when it came to combat."
But combat is also integral to Torment's narrative, kind of.
> rats are actually one of the stronger enemies and can cast spells you yourself don't know yet like Ball Lightning
> not asking questions is actually encouraged with black abishai because they're fiends
> Dak'kon *knowing* himself allows him to land some absolutely sick crits and share his knowledge with yourself and your knowledge with him so each Reign of Anger helps you zerth out
> reliance on more non-traditional spells and weapons to work beyond the cliches of the genre, Dak'kon having only his spirit blade, Morte working with different sets of teeth etc.
> you can't really get why dying is very fine unless you die a lot while your companions can only be resurrected for a hefty price
> as you remember more and progress in levels, you can do some absolutely sick shit with spells and so can the enemies
> the entire premise of the Modron Maze
> Fortress of Regrets actively making combat useless for the most part despite you being generally able to deal with most things because you can't really just kill your past dawg
If it had no combat, it'd be very different in how it has to deliver its experience across, and that's why we have Disco Elysium.

>>3803863
There are a games where the narrative parts impact the combat. But are there games where combat impacts the narrative?

>>3803663
>Western Devs not knowing they can actually make visual novels w/o combat.
Point and click adventure games existed before Torment.

>>3803662 (OP)
I found Disco Elysium to be very overrated!
Didn't enjoy the writing that much, found it restrictive in a way and lacking in choices and actual branches within the narrative.
I found the characters to mostly shallow satire and stereotypical caricatures.
I found the side quests to add very little relevancy to the main story.
I found the gameplay utterly shallow and disappointing, you don't need combat to make good gameplay (Portal 2)
I found the music mostly forgettable with only 2 good tracks and the atmosphere wasn't comparable to PST.
I found the level design to be very bad honestly, all this city and there is no unique areas, hidden shortcuts or actual interesting design to make reaching and exploring different areas fun, instead its just very basic stuff. You don't need combat to make good level design (Outer Wilds).
I also found the ending to be lame as fuck.

I found that Disco Elysium is such a wasted potential, a game that could've been so much more, you have a cool skill tree system that reflects on the human mind, you have the thought cabinet and a worldbuilding that can create seeds for interesting branches but the Developers are clearly not talented enough to do anything else beyond writing political gotchas they saw from Reddit and Twitter.

Just a massively overrated game, those who put this game among the RPG greats are absolutely delusional. I noticed they overexaggerate their love for it, just because of political and social reasons, not for true merit, this is a red flag.

Quit Disco Elysium after Measurehead
Beat PS:T and it's my Game of all Time

>>3806390
>Quit Disco Elysium after Measurehead
Why?

>>3803662 (OP)
Read through this dialogue and you'll have your answer.

>>3803662 (OP)
DE is Planescape for millennial & gen x Obama/Bernie voters who are stuck in the grieving process for communism. They thought it was about worker's liberation, turns out it was about buggery, matriarchy, and infinity brown people.

>>3806357
Wasted potential is the point.

>>3803813
The problem with combat in CRPGs is when it's unavoidable and there's a lot of it to pad the game out. Like in Arcanum or VTM. As long as you can skip all of it if you want, bad combat won't drag a game down.

>>3807972
>Erm, is le game making... fun of me?!?! That's not heckin ok!!!
t. (You)

Torment is more cohesive. Despite there being obvious cuts to the game, there's a more cohesive narrative with many of characters and events developing towards the themes and central question of the game.

Disco has great writing but it's actual narrative is not as well done. It really doesn't have any surprises or unexpected turns

The one without combat because CRPG combat is sucky and pointless.

>>3807972
No matter what option you pick here, it always gets you back to Men of Wo.
Choices in Disco Elysium don't matter

>>3803662 (OP)
It's substantially inferior in every way. It doesn't even have combat which is 90% of the gameplay in a crpg. They said they removed combat to make the game bigger and more reactive, but it isn't. It has less player freedom than Torment, a lot less content, and the only thing it adds in return is even more dialogue.

>>3807972
It makes fun of commies and liberals too. In fact at one point it makes almost the same joke if you go commie. It's not supposed to be an objective representation of political currents, it's the internal ramblings of an alcoholic schizo midwit, like (You).