When it comes to RPG games, do you feel that more realistic design choices in arms/armor/clothing make the game better or more immersive?
Recently started playing through my backlog of games, as well as a new Morrowind playthrough, and I find that more realistic armor (at least where appropriate) makes the game world much better and often leads to better looking weapons and armor. Dark Souls, DDDA/Dragon's Dogma 2, KCD/KCDII and Mount and Blade pretty much blow 99% of RPG armor and clothing designs out of the water. I have no idea why more devs don't take a page (or a whole book) from history when designing the world or some the interactables.

It depends what you're trying to be immersed in. Fantastical armours do a better job of immersion into a fantastical setting, and characterise both the world and the main cast. Realistic armours would look inappropriate in a game like Final Fantasy 12 or Morrowind and would break immersion.

KCD and M&B are explicitly trying to be realistic settings so of course realistic armour works for them.
Dark Souls does have fantastical designs like Kirk's armour, Ornstein/Smough, the onion knights, etc. but it uses them sparingly because the theme of the game is that all the fantastical gods and heroes are dead or corrupted and most of what's left is regular chucklefuck undead exploring the ruins.
Dragon's Dogma is a more fantastical setting but the game is an unfinished piece of shit and an inconsistent tone is only one of its many issues.

>>3805515 (OP)
It’s the simple fact that modern game directors are more interested in their message than immersion. Visuals are less about “realism” or believability to simulate an immersive experience and more about flashiness, having tons of sparkles and marvel movie-tier visuals in a misguided attempt to appeal to non-gamers in a bid for “inclusion”. The focus is unironically in attempting to appeal to as many people who don’t play video games as possible and you won’t see realistic armor designs because the directors of these projects are 1. dispassionate about history and 2. automatically assume the audience consists entirely of easily wowed plebians who have never picked up a controller before therefore having no incentive to try at design. This “easily impressionable newb audience” is non-existent outside of the fantasies of these directors because people who enjoy video games for being video games are the people who have the investment to allow for the industry to exist at all, whereas audiences like OP are very much in existence, leading to a very sorry state of the modern gaming industry where nearly every major gaming company has no interest in making quality video games and gamers have a severe lack of quality games as a result.

>>3805584
>Realistic armours would look inappropriate in a game like Final Fantasy 12 or Morrowind and would break immersion.
I disagree. At least for Morrowind. Realistic armors tend to look much better in the world space than what is normally on offer for Human characters while offering much better protection. Something like Vendel period gear and Le Tene era equipment would look awesome for the Nords. Hell, really anything from the 800s to the 15th century wouldn't really be out of place in Morrowind seeing as they make use of both plate armor, simple munition armor and mail.
>Fantastical armours do a better job of immersion into a fantastical setting
I disagree IMO. Most of the design choices for fantastical armor in most media make no sense, like having pauldrons so big you can't lift your arms. I also feel that "fantastical" tropes tend to pigeon hole design choices. Like in most media the "Barbarian" peoples are relegated to terribly represented Germanic/Celtic people or something like the Huns, when in reality both were pretty sophisticated in terms of material culture.

>>3805515 (OP)
Realism does not equal better or immersion.

>>3805649
I also disagree here. Realistic armor, or at the very least armor that has some realistic design choices, not only looks better than more fantastical ones but can also immerse you in the world more. Something like the Drakeblood set from DS2/3 shits all over 90% of fantasy armor designs.
From an immersive perspective not only is more realistic armor more functional, but there would basically be zero reason not to use it in a world where magic is common, like the "TES" series.

>>3805515 (OP)
I've yet to see a good srmor/defense mechanic. A from dnd isn't one.

>>3805515 (OP)
Dark Souls had a French smiting company design their armor.

>>3805685
I think New Vegas's armor system is probably the best. "Damage Threshold" and "Damage Resistance" make the most sense IMO.
>>3805689
Did they? I dont recall ever hearing or reading about that but due to how good their armor line up is I could believe it.

I'm 100% with you OP. Historically correct armour and weaponry rules. When I look at stuff like >>3805584, I like that as an image, as an idea, as something to daydream about. Burt when I imagine seeing this in motion, as a character in a game, I just find it ridiculous. While this pic >>3805644 is pure kino. Also, gear like this makes sense in motion, you don't have to be an expert you can just see how it's all well-balanced and how every element makes sense. They always look like they work because they were made to work. And if you think there's only bland stuff from the past to take inspiration from: There's loads of bizarre and unique stuff if you start looking into the past. You just have to go the museum.

>>3805515 (OP)
Because it's boring. And people who go on about realism don't actually know what that means. They just want something their retarded rotted brains think LOOKS realistic.

>>3806487
>Because it's boring
How so? While fantastical settings and material culture can work if done properly (like Morrowind's Dark Elves), most of the time the more "fantastical" elements in arms, armor and architecture are just really badly made medieval European derivatives that look worse than the real thing.
Take Skyrim for example. Most of the armor and material culture in Skyrim is absurdly poor, majority of their armor is functionally useless while also being ugly, their clothing is ill fitted for the climate, and their architecture is passing at best. Compare that to Vendel era Germanic peoples or earlier and you have a much brighter, more beautiful and more intricate material culture. Hell, you could have swapped the Foreswarn out with La Tene era Celtic peoples and ended up with a far more interesting faction than "generic stone age fantasy barbarian 101".
"Battle Brothers" is probably one of the best examples of more realistic arms and armor done in a fantastical setting, despite not being an RPG and kicks the shit out of other settings. Its grounded and believable, and the world sucks you in, in a way that most RPGs fail to do.

>>3805644
>Most of the design choices for fantastical armor in most media make no sense, like having pauldrons so big you can't lift your arms
Anon is so close to getting it, but his Asperger's won't let him...

>>3806536
Dude, you are basically asking why people like nonsense like Marvel or DC superheroes. People want to be the super unique guy who stand out of the crowd because he has horns on his helmet and pauldrons, leave the boring mundane stuff for the plebs and peasants. That's it.

>>3806556
Thats just something you made up while writing that post, "dude".

>>3806556
>People want to be the super unique guy who stand out of the crowd
You can quite literally achieve that while also looking better in every way by going with historical armors as a base. Fuck, look at Leda for one of the most recent examples. Its pretty much just a 15th century set of armor with darkened steel and engravings with a mantle over it but it comes out to be one of the best sets From has ever done. If you want something even more "basic" go look at the Faraam set or the Mirror Knight from DS2 if you want something more Romanesque. All of these blow most fantasy designs out of the water.
>>3806546
Enlighten me anon

>>3806573
Did you just get offended by dude? Are you a tranny? lol

>>3806575
>Noooo I don't want to think, I just want to rant about my autistic fixation!

>>3806035
Fallout new Vegas? Curios. I'll see if I can find the formula online.

>>3806035
OK, found it. It uses Dr first and then applies dt. You can't reduce damage further 85%. I'm looking for something more realistic. Layers of armor are for a reason, as each layer soaks different damage types. A better armor in real life isn't just soaking or absorbing a higher amount of damage. Body armor can save your life from a bullet, but can't protect you from the impact itself. Maybe every good damage system has some form of pain or shock implemented and wounds for lethal damage.

>>3806810
A simple way to do is with a stamina bar. Armour could block the hit, the HP damage, but still damage your stamina. If stamina regenerates fairly quickly, then armour protects you but doesn't make you invincible since if you take to many hits at once then you're still going down. But it lets you tank hits until you can take out an enemy, and then recover before the next one.

>>3806812
Kcd has such a system, just awfully implemented. It's true though, low on stamina or air and things go south fast. Iirc greedfall has stamina for the armor and it refreshes after each fight.
>>3806812
I like the idea, but this needs to be balanced, as stamina will become a super stat fast.
The new problem this approach generates is the stamina bar. Is there one game that got it right?

>>3806035
>>3806810
To be precise, DR is percentage-based reduction which caps at 85% whereas DT is basic subtraction with no limit. DR was the main source of reduction in Fallout 3, but it's only used for a couple items at low percentages in New Vegas. On the other hand, DT is actually really bad for a game with no level scaling and quasi-random encounters.

>>3806815
Dark Souls was exactly that besides only working when you block rather than always. The heavier your shield is, the more it reduces stamina damage as well. Personally, I think that "bracing" method is more fun since it still requires active self-preservation.

>>3806833
>whereas DT is basic subtraction with no limit
I didn't know. Fair.
>>3806833
This mechanic is obviously about self preservation. I don't like stamina bars that deplete after three strikes and are regenerating within seconds. Maybe it really comes down to how healing works. If health isn't restored with click X, then stamina can work more realistically? For me it's important to have the stamina to perform attack chains.
>requires active self-preservation.
This is key, I believe.
What do you think of attacks or actions reducing max stamina over time?

>>3806833
>level scaling
Was that ever done in an acceptable manner?

>>3805515 (OP)
It really depends on the setting and the game...
For example, as you said, FromSoft games have some great looking and functional armor pieces, from DeS to ER. However, these are often reserved for plain PC or low rank NPCs, emphasizing their lack of power or rank.
When trying to depict a mythical knight or a deranged individual, they stray and often create something absurd but somehow fitting the setting.
In ER for example, many armors with realistic looking pieces are inlaid with so much decoration and gems, to be absolutely inpractical in any situation other than ceremonial ones. But this feeds in to the mythic or divine like setting the game world is meant to convey.

>>3806837
>stamina bars that deplete after three strikes and are regenerating within seconds
Tainted Grail does this, at the start. It's actually not that bad. It encourages you to fight more realistically. You hit the enemy a few times until he staggers then back off to recover yourself. You can't just stand there flailing at each other.

>>3806849
>stating the obvious
What are you saying? All true, but what's the point?
>feeds in to the mythic or divine like setting the game world is meant to convey.
This?
>>3806381
Awesome. Story behind it?
>>3806035
Yeah, there shouldn't be all too many French companies selling medieval armor online, so I'm certain you can find it, if you really want to.

>>3806536
In regards to the elder scrolls I dont think that realistic armor would really fit. The architecture, ruins, the world itself is quite stylized.
It is often clear in what its trying to evoke, but leans heavily into fantastical to give it a unique flavor.
This is the reason why even when modding the game i still like to stay closer to vanilla, rather than use more realistic replacers (like NordWars), cause they end up contrasting heavily with the creatures, locations etc...

>>3806839
All the time. It's easy to get right. The good cases are designed so you won't notice them.

>>3806857
yes that and this:
>>3806859

armor, clothing, weapons are a part of a whole.
why fantasy games go for more stylized variants is precisely because it is easier or more effective to convey mythic and heroic subliminal messages through such designs.

To contrast these you have KCD and MnB, which clearly evoke a more grounded historical setting and have armor to match...

>>3806863
Which game? All the ones I have in mind, oblivion, ff8 make leveling pointless.

>>3806864
>stylized variants is precisely because it is easier or more effective to convey mythic and heroic subliminal messages through such designs.
Big words. It's obviously true, narrative design is a thing. I'm all for more realism in armor and weapon design. Doesn't have to be 1:1, but a little more practicality would be nice.

>>3806859
This should look fine but for some reason it just doesn't. I can't quite place what is wrong with it.

>>3805644
morrowind and tes on the whole is a mishmash of settings that ends up in a quite interesting and surprisingly cohesive whole. the glue that makes it kinda work is fantasy.
the armor you linked wouldve been too plain for for a tes game for anyone but a plain low level heavy bandit.
But if some game was built with your sensibilities from the start it could work...

>>3805644
Barbarian as a fantasy archetype is a scantily armored buffed up warrior. A historical parallel could be made with the norse berserkers or celtic naked warriors, which is why they are often depicted as such.
As a term it was and is still used to describe any people with supposedly more primitive customs and behaviours than the ones own.
Greeks considered Romans barbarians (didnt speak greek), Romans considered celts barbarians (didnt shave themselves), so did the ancient chinese consider most of the world, and the 19th english considered 18th century chinese...

>>3806876
If you want to judge it from a historical perspective, it would feel wrong, as it uses armor elements from older periods combined with more modern looking gloves and boots.
From the practical perspective it is better than most Skyrim sets.
But like most other NordWar armors, it has a far too similar design to many other of his pieces, while Skyrims stylized design can let u recognize just via the silhouette what armor someone wears.

>>3806875
Souls and FromSoft strike a very good balance overall. But even they go much farther towards the fantasy side.
I usually keep using low level or starter weapons for most of my playtroughs, because most other weapons have ridiculous sizes.

>>3806849
>In ER for example, many armors with realistic looking pieces are inlaid with so much decoration and gems, to be absolutely inpractical in any situation other than ceremonial ones
Not really. For lords who could afford intricate armors and beautiful decorations they would. Anything from blueing to darkening the steel, to engraving/acid etching, or cloth additives on top of the armor like tabards or jupons. Some of the earlier armors in the medieval period, like in the 11th century and before, are highly detailed like pic rel.

>>3806859
Some of Nordwar's armor are lacking in quality and IMO you picked a pretty shitty variant to represent "realistic" armor. His "Guard armor replacer", and the Redguard armor probably look the best from his work albeit the split in the aventail is very shit. His "Heavy Legion" also does wonders in regards to making the Empire look like a credible threat instead of a bunch of larpers.
Skyrim is trying to sell you a unique barbaric landscape that is loosely based off of West Germanic culture. Its why later medieval armors and plate doesn't really make too much sense and clashes with the games design, but armor based off the Rus and West Germanics from earlier periods do.

>>3806879
I still disagree. Most of the Nord armor in game is pretty horribly made and is ugly as fuck. Part of that comes from the devs misunderstanding armor entirely with things like "ring mail". Some of their more fantastical designs with shit like bonemold armor is outstanding but a lot of the human stuff comes off as just larp-tier equipment. A really neat fantastical design would be like pic rel, which funnily enough comes from Berserk.
>pic rel
Did they ever fix SHOTN's performance issues or add in more armor? The only really good set there is the guard armor.

>>3806911
As beautiful as that armor is in realistic medieval terms it is very tame in comparison to ER style decorations.
Decorations on that level are used for Knights in Elden Ring (Godrick, Radahn, Erdtree...)
Carian Knight set and shield for example are inlaid with so much gems that any strong strike would crush or gouge them out.
Raging Wolf set is a bit tattered, but you can still see the intricate detail and inlaid rubies. Such armors would have realistically only have been worn on parades or displayed as a symbol of wealth and prestige...
But in terms of narrative design, they convey nobility and prestige through such craftsmanship, going far beyond practicality and reason.

>>3806890
The barbarian archetype is kinda shit. The only game I have seen do it justice in recent memory is unironically battle brothers, as both more fantastical barbarians commonly thought of in media is present, but also more realistic NW-Euro inspired people
>didnt shave themselves
Actually they did. They plucked or shaved all their hair aside from their face IIRC.

>>3806922
I don't really have any problems with ER's design choices in terms of armor or fantastical design. Its all functional and any discrepancies like over decoration are usually relegated to high tier enemies in places that make sense. My issue mainly lies with poor design choices and design tropes that stifle creative design.

>>3806904
Iirc they are mostly among the best weapons. Had a dragon axe playthrough, was difficult af.

>>3806918
You seem to know a thing or two about armor. What kind of fabric armor or armor made of cloth or other fibre armor do you like, but miss in vidya?

>>3806915
TES isnt quite as clear cut to dismiss any race or culture in a neat real-world parallel, though Skyrim nords do fit rather well in that category. The Nords could have worked with some tibetan, native american, eskimo elements too, but thats for another kalpa...
Plate armors make a lot of sense in the TES setting, they are used by Imperials and Bretons, and Nords themselves for hundreds of years up to Skyrim.
Aesthetically, its a design challenge to make something that suits this setting. Copy pasting realistic looking Viking armor doesnt really do it for me.
In the end I concede that it is a matter of taste.

>>3806918
SHotN devs planed to tweak the cities and assets to fix those issues. Id wait for the Markarth release if the last time was unbearable for you.

>>3806936
Not really armor, but medieval clothing that could be layered over armor is what I miss. KCD and its mods has a pretty good selection though and scratches that itch.

>>3806943
I'll check out the mods.

>>3806937
IMO the Nords in Skyrim could have had a mix of Celtic and Germanic arms, armor and material culture. Its pretty clear that Bethesda had them flip flop between the two depending on which entry in the series you are playing. The more Hunnic or oriental influence doesn't gel well at all unless you want to go with something like an earlier steppe people closer to Europe (The Scythians and such), but I have no idea how that would work at all with the lore and IMO it would feel somewhat derivative of the Ashlanders from MW.
>Plate armors make a lot of sense in the TES setting, they are used by Imperials and Bretons, and Nords themselves for hundreds of years up to Skyrim.
I meant more so mods that just copy and paste medieval armor straight into skyrim and people wonder why it feels off. Things like kettle helmets and such.

>>3806936
NTA but you can have layers and layers. Cloth under gambesons under more cloth under another gambeson with a coat over the top.
You'd die of heatstroke in Finland if the sun came out for 5 minutes.

>>3806963
Did you make drew picrel? I want to have a distinct armor system and I am working on a fitting artwork, too. Layer over layer is certainly nest and crossed my mind, kinda tricky to implement, if you want to see layer over layer. Cheap version is that only certain parts are visible. Better that and well done, than 1000 clipping errors while all parts are visible.
Technically one could wear two heavy gambesosn. Just how much would mobility suffer?

>>3806953
Anything could have worked really. You have a little bit of everything in TES. What remains of oriental influence in Skyrim is just the Sky Haven temple.
>I meant more so mods that just copy and paste medieval armor straight into skyrim and people wonder why it feels off. Things like kettle helmets and such.
I agree but feel the same way about viking style chainmail.

>>3806970
Nah, I have no talent. It just came up in a search.

>>3806931
Its likely a result of artists having little knowledge about the subject matter, and designers wanting to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Leading to designs inspired by hollywood films and comics...

With more knowledge and interest in the subject matter we are seeing more games with overall better armor and weapon design...

>>3806975
>I agree but feel the same way about viking style chainmail.
Can I ask why? Some of the best armor designs for humans I have seen for any TES game are usually influenced by historic armors.

>>3806970
>make drew picrel
Oh boy, time to bedding

>>3805651
Soulsborne armor in general is an excellent example of how it pays to know the rules so you can break them correctly.

>>3806890
>(didnt shave themselves)
More importantly, they wore pants! Can you even imagine what must possess the barbarian mind to clothe each leg individually, rather than simply draping cloth over the whole?

>>3807031
Ok, ill try to bring my point across, though i concede that this is all a matter of taste.
Viking like chainmail armor, such as ones during the viking era or the early medieval period would look to archaic in Skyrim, next to the more plate like iron. Visually it would be too plain among other armors even in the same category, thus feeling out of place. Maybe a suitably stylized variant could work better.
The oblivion like chainmail armor, also by nordwar, would imo work better. as it evokes a more later medieval design, more fitting for the setting, in terms of lore and era. it is more visually detailed, and more suitable for a higher level armor, perhaps as a light armor parallel to the skyrims steel plate. pic rel
But even here I feel that some more fantasy look for the helmet (closer to oblivion) would make the armor fit better in Skyrim.
Lamellar armor would fit Skyrims era better, but imo would clash too much with the other sets for similar aethetic and balance reasons. the armor itself may look more practical and better, but i struggle to place it among other ingame armors.
most armors have parallels between heavy and light, id want to place it in light, but it looks too heavy for light armor...
the heavy armors tend to go towards plate in their designs, which would make it stick out...
so my argument is essentially design cohesion, though i admit when most armors have shitty designs, the good ones stick out. So if Id use chainmail and lamellar, id replace every other armor in skyrim too. but id also replace the armors and weapons the draugr use... adjust the ysgrammor statue for less fantasy and more realism etc...

>>3807075
Youre right. Even the romans wore beards up until the punic wars when they fell out of fashion.
But they never stooped to wearing pants!

>>3807077
> early medieval period would look to archaic in Skyrim,
I don't think so. Most of the "armor" in skyrim is either clothing, larp gear or is something that would work and is missing important pieces like the steel plate armor set missing mail underneath to cover the large gaps or the iron set being basically a stamped plate with no extra protection. Mail armor like I posted previously would be contemporary to Skyrim, but also be significantly better than anything they would wear currently. City guards and stormcloak soldiers pretty much wear short mail (far too short IMO), with a gambeson over it and a tunic underneath with a close face helmet. Thats pretty much the best designed, base line armor set for the game and offers worse protection than any early medieval armor.
>id replace every other armor in skyrim too
That would be kind of the point lol. The "Stormcloak champion" set sticks out like a sore thumb in Skyrim because its so well designed (aside from the gloves and boots)

>>3807120
>The "Stormcloak champion" set sticks out like a sore thumb in Skyrim because its so well designed
i actually meant to post this armor as an example of this!
So we esentially agree about what makes a good looking armor. its just that i warmed up to Skyrims silly artstyle in the end...
Id rather retain some semblance of cohesion in a modded game, as there is far too many things id change if i go towards a more realistic direction.

>>3805515 (OP)
I assume because of laziness and incompetence, especially since fantasy armor usually just looks worse.

>>3807120
>>3807130
But to recap again.
Id prefer overall visual and game design consistency over just good armor design and realism.
Skyrim specifically, evokes a themepark fantasy setting with a puply 80s conan the barbarian style designs but with snow.
As its gameplay isnt particularly deep, nor are its quests, nor factions... the silliness and larpiness of its armor and weapons designs work in favor of its overall vision.
And it succeeds in creating a snowy conan fantasy escapist themepark...

On the other hand realistic armors of the souls series are just part of a much more different and fine tuned design sensibility, demonstrated not only in the item design but in all other fields of the game as well.

So to recap it really does depend on the game. Souls game have a much greater artistic ambition, but Skyrim is simple themepark fantasy fun... I respect the former much more, but do enjoy the latter as well.

>>3807130
>>3807187
>Id prefer overall visual and game design consistency over just good armor design and realism.
Well part of good armor design, at least to me, is consistency. If there isn't consistency, or a major gap between armor sets (like project Cyrodill for Morrowind), there needs to be a coherent reason as to WHY. Consistency and coherent internal logic is something fantasy admittedly doesn't do well but when it does its fantastic.
>Skyrim is simple themepark fantasy fun
I think that may be a major gripe with fantasy settings and fantasy RPGs as a whole. None of them really take themselves seriously and modern ones have Millennial Reddit tier humor shoe horned in at every opportunity. Something like Conan, despite not being realistic and basically being a loosely bronze/iron age fantasy setting, can be enjoyed fairly easily due to it being consistent and taking itself very seriously. Morrowind is much the same. Battle Brothers, despite being a strategy mercenary sim, has one of the best low fantasy worlds I have ever seen.
I am of the opinion that any setting that takes itself seriously can be enhanced or made better by opening a history book and jotting down whats there. Even really small things like seeing a spinning wheel or a winnowing machine makes the world that much more immersive. Its part of the reason why Kuttenburg is one of the best RPG cities ever.

>>3807206
The only TES game that treats itself and its players somewhat seriously is Morrowind.

Havent played BB though its in my backlog, but MnB has that low fantasy feel as well.

KCD i cant stand from the game design philosophy itself.
On the one hand you have minute details like you mentioned, on the other hand you are forced into a dull b movie tier plot with hours of cinematics. And while the game insists on being cinematic, it suffers from dead eyes npcs and stiff looking animations and combat system that works horribly when facing multiple opponents. not for me thank you. not to mention the wokesim of the 2nd game...
I really wont bother with the immersive sim aspect of the game, when fundamentally i dont find the game worth playing.

While anything could benefit from more historical detail, it doesnt necessarily need to.
A well made gameplay loop could incorporate some immersive detail for its benefits or it could end up being entirely inconsequential.

Conan as a setting isnt really detailed at all, most of its world building is done in broad strokes. It works well because it works on a more abstract level, archetypal... mythic...
In a more shallow level, even skyrim works that way, and most other RPG games do.

>>3805584
>Fantastical armours do a better job of immersion into a fantastical setting
No, they don't. They look bad and stupid.
You can make a functioning armour for a fantasy just fine, but it takes knowledge and effort, so people fall back to fantasy slop like O&S armours.

>>3806911
Wasn't decoration like 10 times the price of an armor, meaning only lords could realistically afford it.
Iirc a sword could cost the yearly income of a peasant.

>>3807367
It entirely depends on what decoration was done and what era. In later periods (1400s+) acid etching was expensive, but IIRC was able to be done by a large portion of the gentry and in some cases well off free-men. Swords during this period were fairly common side arms and easily made due to blast furnaces pumping out a good amounts of billets that were high quality. Mail was also common due to it being produced for so long and there being so much of it to repurpose and reuse.
Swords were really only prohibitively expensive in the migration era, early medieval period and somewhat into the high medieval period. Swords as a sidearm in war went from 1:10 to 4:10 from the migration era to the early medieval period and then just went up from there. By the high medieval period (1000's to 1300s) people had blast furnaces, water powered hammers, washing machines, cranes and the beginnings of automation. Pretty impressive stuff IMO.

>>3807592
It is impressive. I have a washing machine, too.
Swords going form 1 to 4 : 10 is no wonder. They usually don't break easily and hit adds up over the centuries.

>>3807120
These shoes do not look very comfortable or very suited for long marches across wild terrain desu
I mean they probably were, but my brain finds it hard to digest

>>3805515 (OP)
Because they're weebs or hire weebs and retards to develop concept art.
The sweet spot is a focus on aesthetic with the requirement of functionality. That's how you get things that look cool and not giga-weebed out.
Autists are the reason japan hasn't collapsed, and it's a shame

>>3806857
>Story behind it?
The pic? I scanned that from a book called "Albrecht Dürer - Waffen und Rüstingen" ( = Weapons and Armour). It's a cool book, it looks into the high degree of detail that Dürer depicted weapons and armour with. It's somewhere between art history and military history. I had that book out from my university library ages ago when I was a student, it's filled with stuff like that.

>>3805515 (OP)
Yeah, I wish fantasy games used more realistic aesthetics for buildings, clothing, armor and weapons. I sort of got bored by fantasy because it's same kitchen sink late medieval + early modern shit + gnarly oversized armors.

I only have Bannerlord to play for early medieval stuff, or Skyrim with mods.
And nothing that is antiquity based.

>>3805644
>Most of the design choices for fantastical armor in most media make no sense
Yeah almost like they're fantastical or something.

>>3808171
It really depends on the setting and what type of magical properties and magic it has.
Game of Thrones, for example, is a setting with magic, but technology and aesthetics are mundane/historical.
To magical things are more interesting when they are not smeared all over. That and fantasy is generally just kitchen sink, so you have notvikings next to early modern stuff.
I get that for normalfags it doesn't matter, but it really takes me out and makes it not fun for me.

>>3807998
>Albrecht Dürer
Savage artist, wasn't he? Literally one of his kind.

>>3808161
Picrel gaem?

>>3808179
>Game of Thrones
Plenty of pointless belts

>>3808218
It's just Skyrim with Vaultman30 mod.
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/24567

>>3808225
Decent armor!

>>3805515 (OP)
As long as it's well designed it's fine but they often make terrible looking armor so they would have been better sticking with the existing.

>>3808219
A belt is never pointless.

>>3808253
A belt isn't, multiple beltS might be redundant.

>>3808161
These armors look fine, and might be at home for the Reachmen in the Skyrim HotN mods.
But Skyrim ones feel fine like they are in the overall setting. Maybe could use some more coverage, but again its a stylistic choice present in most other armors.
The Skyrim Forsworn are closer to the savage tribe from the movie 13th warrior, rather than any drawing from any historical inspiration.
IMO it works fine in case of Skyrim.

>>3808179
This is just personal preference.
Theoretically you could have civilizations in a different stage in development with more developed ones weaked after a natural catastrophe etc.
I can be open to most stuff if the armors get a unique twist to them.
Copy pasting existing historical armors to high fantasy settings is just as uncreative.

>>3808161
In terms of Action RPGs, the two settings that are most commonly represented are the medieval european and sengoku japan.
Although even there you have a wide selection of games and art directions. So theres always something unique to play.
Unless you insist on realistic looking arms and armor... Then theres KCD (shit game but very detailed and realisitc), Exanima (will never be finished, but is playable and fun), and MnB which you play already.
For any other setting, you have to go for strategy games, TW and MnB mods.
Or some cRPGs maybe...

>>3808262
Vaultman replaces all other armors too, it's basically to make them all look early medieval. I like early medieval or ancient aesthetics more than late medieval, since Skyrim armors are basically kitchen sink of early and late medieval + weird gnarly and oversized stuff.
>>3808269
>This is just personal preference.
Naturally, because this is entertainment, after all.
And yes, they can coexist, but usually the better and more useful technologies will push out others.
>>3808275
Yeah, sadly it's how it is.
Don't even ask for Bronze Age stuff, for example, like Tyranny maybe did that, but it was cartoony and stylized game anyway.

>>3805515 (OP)
I suppose that under the pretense that in rpgs you get ever stronger equipments as you beat ever stronger challenges, the armors have also to evolve in the same manner so as to express these newfound supernatural power levels.
That is to say that the realistic armors should be left to the common power levels and the weird ones to the uncommon ones.
That is not something that happen in many fantasy games though, even common armorr are offputting and sometimes the designs are outright stupid and ugly, but that is not something that stems out of fantasy creativity, but from a profound distate of true medieval depictions, from the outlook of a bleak oppressive pre-industrial society, something illuministic and ideological. Some of the "good armors" here presented have nothing to do with the actual medieval aesthetic and some of the bad armors world fit the good fantastical supernatural ones Im talking about.
To sum It all, on this topic, what I mean to say is that common armor should look common and realistic; special supernatural power armor has to express the supernaturalness through outlandish designs that nevertheless still have to be at the Very least historically inspired in some of its aesthetics so as to mantain the aesthetic of the era it mimetizes.
This one >>3805651 looks like shit, for example, its form is inadequate and It is clearly a leyenda negra outlook on the middle ages.
>>3806536 this real armor would fit well for a special mid-level set found in a Dungeon
Same here>>3806575 and here>>3806911
Elden ring is a mixed bag of designs imo.

More choice in character customisation is good. Doesn't make the game itself good.

>>3808324
>evolve in the same manner
But do they?

>>3808436
They should, that is my point.

>>3808171
Magic being present isn't a good reason for armor to basically be non-functional due to massive design flaws or overall just poor construction quality. Like why would anyone ever pick something like pic rel, when a significantly better armor is widely available and fairly cheap? Mail armor is present in Skyrim, the "poorly equipped" rebels use it.
Shit, magic being widely means you would want better armor with more layers for enchanting anyway. Having 4+ enchantments just on your torso alone because you are wearing a tunic+ a gambeson + mail + plate would be absurd.

>>3808324
>I suppose that under the pretense that in rpgs you get ever stronger equipments as you beat ever stronger challenges, the armors have also to evolve in the same manner so as to express these newfound supernatural power levels.
Battle Brothers does this actually. As you scale into the late game and go from fighting brigands to actual armed bandits to wild animals like giant spiders and lindwurms you begin fighting super natural creatures that give you armor like pic rel.
The weird, horrific and outright fantastical armors stand right beside the more common and mundane ones without looking like something from a Saturday cartoon. You have to fight legendary beasts to get them too, and they are often a pain to fight.

>>3808444
30 years ago they evolved by getting a new colour. The way dos2 or bg3 are doing it is lame imho. Too pompeus imho.

>>3808519
That's battle brothers? I thought they have a cute artstyle?

>>3808522
It used to, kind of. The artist behind the work really polished their skills and if you go on their forums you can watch it go from kinda cutesy to realistic and heroic, yet grimy. They have some of the best art I have ever seen for a medieval setting.

>>3805515 (OP)
>Why don't more RPG dev's go for realistic arms/armor?
People dont even know what "realistic" means.

You arent looking for realism, you're looking for authenticity.
Big difference.

Realistic armor would be armor that actually existed and was used in combat
Authentic armor would be what looks to you like realistic armor but never existed or was only used for ceremonies or might have been only used in certain Tournaments or might look realistic but isnt if you think about it logically.

TL;DR Armorthreads are cancer and everyone participating in them is a midwit

>>3808526
>>3808519
Never played this game but ive gotta give it a try now
Nice design for a supernatural armor

>>3808526
Haven't they updated their steam page? It looks like the game uses some tiny figurines instead of actual proper sized characters.

>>3808217
Absolutely. Had a typo there, the book is called "Albrecht Dürer - Waffen und Rüstungen". I really like the Italian Renaissance too, but painters in Northern Europe had their own thing going in that period. Dürer, Schongauer, Grünewald, Brueghel, Bosch, van Eyck, all killer no filler.

>>3808625
>all killer no filler
Unlike today. Do you see your picrel? That's art. What we have today? That's slop.

>>3808625
>>3808702
>forgot somethung
Is this made with metal, the picture, I mean.

>>3805515 (OP)
>why don't more devs put in more work for their games to be less popular

>>3805515 (OP)
Here is the thing, you want to try to give your IP a visual identity that sticks and and recognizable. If you put regular realistic armor into your game, it will look no different than all the other games that do the same. But if you see a Warcraft Footmen, a Lannister Guard from Game of Thrones or a Skyrim city guard, you immediatly connect the visuals with the IP because the armor is distinctive enough.

>>3808703
Yes, it's an engraving. You use a metal plate and scratch the surface with a special type of needle. Then you put a thin layer of ink paste on the plate and wipe it off again. The ink only stays in the parts of the plate that were scratched. Then you print it in a press. It requires the artist to think "mirrored" because the print will come out horizontally mirrored. This method allows for very fine lines and details, unlike the more coarse woodcuts that had been around until then.

>>3809223
Iirc this is cheap af compared to his oil and water works, but he did that to earn more money.

>>3809180
>visuals with the IP because the armor is distinctive enough.
Is this true? Or rather why is this true? Are you a creative guy?

>>3809314
Naturally, because they're prints, so they're not unique like a painting since you can sell hundreds of copies. Doesn't make them less interesting.

>>3809323
That's what I wanted to say. Something ordinary can still be a masterpiece.

>>3805515 (OP)
Because they are lazy and don't care to do research for references. It's much more easier to lean on fantasy troupes.

>>3809180
Historical armors, at least if not late medieval, would actually stick out visually, because they would not be generic fantasy.

>>3806556
>leave the boring mundane stuff for the plebs and peasants
Then why don't they give the plebs and peasants realistic mundane armour?

>>3809315
>Is this true?
Can you tell me what setting the left one is from vs what setting the right one is from?

>>3809817
Kcd LHS and Er RHS?

>>3809837
i have no idea what those words mean

>>3809843
Kondom Come Deliverance (kcd) 1 or 2 on the LHS (left-hand side)
Elden Ring (Er) on the RHS (right-hand side)
Unsure if I got the games kcd and Er right.

>>3809862
why would kingdome come have elves and magic? No, left are iomedean crusaders from Pathfinder and right are soldiers of Gondor from Lord of the Rings. Actually i tried to show that Gondor has a recognizable visiual identity while Pathfinder kinda doesnt.

>>3809864
>why would kingdome come have elves and magic
It plays in bohemia, they are essentially elves.
>Actually i tried to show that Gondor has a recognizable visiual identity while Pathfinder kinda doesnt.
That's the VI form the modern movie, isn't it? I doubt the older movies follow the guideline.
Anyway, as you seem a professional in the creative industry: I'm looking for a way to let a metal/leather armor look like a BMW z1, how to approach this?

>>3809867
im just a random guy, anon, i dont work in the creative industry. Cant help you with that

>>3809872
Anons just an random bloke online

I don’t expect armor to look like a 1:1 copy of real life, artistic liberty and all that, but the average fantasy wow-esque spiky or blocky everything huge pauldrons with inexplicable glowing gems and shit looks gay

>>3808179
Magic in Game of Thrones is so rare that even most educated people don't know it exists. You could take the magic out and very little would change.
If that's your personal preference then fine, but it isn't some failure of design to use a different approach.

Everyone should cater exactly to my taste and no one else's which is 19th century germanic romanticism
>not a copy of anything historical
>still looks vaguely historical
Everybody wins. Especially me.

>>3810216
I wouldn't be so bitter, but most fantasy is just kitchen sink mess visually. So I am bitter, since I barely get any games I want.

>>3806035
Not to be pedantic, but DR/DT is actually from Fallout & Fallout 2. And I think New Vegas only uses DT.

>>3806810
>>3806833
>I'm looking for something more realistic
The DR/DT system of the original games is a pretty good simulation of realistic damage handling.
>Layers of armor are for a reason, as each layer soaks different damage types.
Yes. Damage types are expanded out in the original games. So in Fallout/Fallout 2, you would have Physical, Fire, Electrical, Poison, Radiation, Explosive, Melee damage types.
Melee is separated out from physical because it represents blunt force trauma from, say, a swing of a sledge hammer. This allows you to create "softer leather" armors that can absorb the brunt of a melee attack, but do next to nothing against a piercing bullet. It also allows you to create more specialized armors: Metal armor does well against physical but has negative resistance against electrical attacks. Tesla armor is a weaker version of metal armor but has a Faraday Cage built into it that negates the electrical weakness. Hazmat suits are extremely protective against poison and radioactive splash damage but is worthless in a firefight.
>DR is percentage-based reduction which caps at 85% whereas DT is basic subtraction with no limit.
Yeah. New Vegas used it wrong, which is surprising, but DR is originally meant to be an abstraction of the material's ability to absorb incoming damage, along with the DT being the material's actual, and final, stopping power.

>DT is actually really bad for a game with no level scaling and quasi-random encounters.
Games with no scaling can get around this with armor modifiers attached to the weapons themselves. Fallout's armor piercing/Hollow point rounds are an example of this, where the weapon itself applies modifiers to the armor's DR/DT.
But regardless, DR/DT is meant to work together synergistically. If you use only DR or DT, your system will be meh no matter what.

>>3810290
>If you use only DR or DT, your system will be meh no matter what.
I'm afraid, this is the ultimate truth. You could use only one of both and then work with vital zones, but this is a hassle to implement correctly. Both have to be combined for a better general feeling.

>>3805515 (OP)
>When it comes to RPG games, do you feel that more realistic design choices in arms/armor/clothing make the game better or more immersive?
No, because the reason weapons and armor was designed that way IRL doesn't necessarily apply in a different historical setting. It would also be jarring since weapon and armor design also depends on region, resources and such.
It's just as absurd as saying sci-fi guns should look like AK-47's to make it more "realistic" and "immersive", when it does the exact opposite.

>>3810252
Make your own then faggot. Meanwhile I'll be enjoying my fantasy armours because I understand fun and imagination.

>>3810619
That's jerk off material, not fun or imagination, not or not that kind of fun, anyway.

>>3810627
>jerk off material
>not fun or imagination
Wondering why the west is dying off yet?

>>3810662
I don't care for all games to be like that. You don't really get it.

>>3806849
>In ER for example, many armors with realistic looking pieces are inlaid with so much decoration and gems, to be absolutely inpractical in any situation other than ceremonial ones. But this feeds in to the mythic or divine like setting the game world is meant to convey.
ER armors may be unrealistically ornate, but under all the ornamentation they still have mostly realistic shapes and proportions.

>>3810619
She would die immediately in combat from a single sword thrust.

>>3811240
>he can't access the dreamlike logic of a fantasy story
Not memeing anon, this is literal unironic autism you're exhibiting.

>>3811293
theres is no logic in that, you are just retarded. theres difference between stylized armor and retarded armor. one takes skill to create. other is retarded. now stop sperging out you absolute retarded piece of shit.

>>3811550
>one takes skill to create. other is retarded.
It takes a lot of skill to create fantasy armor, yes. "Stylized" armor is a crutch for talentless hacks and newbies that are given base templates and told to "not make it look generic". Anyone who tries to convince people otherwise is an insecure midwit.

>>3811553
>take leotard or bikini
>slap some scales on it
>call it armor
retarded retard

>>3811570
Phahaha, oh my god this anon. Ignorance is bliss indeed.

>>3811654
you got such a massive duning kruger
give me example of believable fantasy armor which is not stylized
anything
lets see copes you would manage to come up with