>Makes brainlets seethe
You think they'd just realize the game wasn't for them and move on, but I suppose they see other people enjoying themselves and they meltdown.

Fantastic game though, but you'll need a good CPU, tons of ram if you want to play on the largest maps, and a bit of intelligence to manage it all.

>got so incredibly butthurt he made a new thread about it
Haha oh wow.

>>2041269
There he is... like clockwork. For organizational purposes the comments about this game should go in a separate thread, rather than something based around Stellaris. Direct your moping and complaining about your low end PC here I guess. Sadly, while that could be improved, you personally will have to respawn and re-roll for a higher IQ.

>>2041272
>if you point out an obvious flaw in my sacred game, you have a low IQ!
>no I don't understand how my beloved game works at all, what does that have to do with anything?
Always funny to see how obsessed you insecure midwits are with IQ.

>>2041268 (OP)
Love this game.

>>2041268 (OP)
The game is the most promising space 4x but suffers from a big case of all playthroughs feeling exactly the same, the only difference you get from different races is research faster/slower, more/less population growth and some early access to slightly better tech.

Why did they have to make up minerals like "aculon" and "cuprica" instead of just iron and copper?
Why are there all of these other commodities like silk and wine that I don't care about?
Why is literally no other game but MoO1 (and 2/NuMoO, i suppose) able to make a proper space 4x economy without polluting it with unnecessary crap

Does DW2 have the same kind of mysteries like DW1? Like discovering a beacon in the far far away system in wrecks and shit?

>>2041268 (OP)
I'm playing a game at the moment (first time since before the Shakturi DLC) and I was quite impressed with how absurdly OP they made the shakturi, I figured it would be a complete cakewalk since by the time they showed up I was mogging every other faction by far and allied to the second most powerful one but they actually have more military power than me

>>2042530
>Why did they have to make up minerals like "aculon" and "cuprica" instead of just iron and copper?
I get your point but I don't think it's a big deal, it's just to make it all sound more sci-fi I suppose
>Why are there all of these other commodities like silk and wine that I don't care about?
I don't see the problem with this, it's a game about empire management rather than being a pure war game. 'real' countries devote plenty of resources to cultivating and hauling non military commodities like silk and wine as consumer goods

>>2042430
>suffers from a big case of all playthroughs feeling exactly the same
Yeah this is really an issue they need to do something about, and I'm not talking about the unique features they added in the faction reworks since those didn't go nearly far enough to make a difference. They just end up as minor gimmicks that don't really make you play differently, just like the % bonuses each faction gets to various stuff. You can play the Teekans as brutal conquerors and the Boskarans as peaceful traders if you want. Yeah it's not optimal, but the differences are so irrelevant that you can just ignore them and still do well. The only thing I really care about from any faction is their research bonuses/penalties, and even those don't matter in the long run since you get plenty of bonuses from ruins and shit, not to mention tech trading/stealing if you don't disable it. Unique techs are also lame as fuck since they're just slight upgrades (and sometimes barely that) over regular techs rather than enabling you to do anything the rest can't do.

The simulation aspect of the game is impressive (even if it can be janky), but the actual gameplay is just disappointing compared to most major space 4x games.

>>2042984
Yes. You discover ancient ruins which unlocks the background story.
>>2042530
>without polluting it with unnecessary crap
Women's desire for silks, trinkets and dies are why men figured out how to navigate by stars, sail the seas, build trading networks and immense armies to secure said resources. Just look at these things as "improves reproduction" which translates into greater tax revenue.
>>2043596
I like that each DLC adds newer looking ship designs, but I would also like to see more race specific tech. A lot of the early-mid game depends on who your nearest neighbours are, so it would create a different feel if they presented unique challenges.

I recently stumbled on a colony of Securan's, ughhhh I'm gonna coooooooolonize. 31M humans were eager to make the trip, and so were various other races.

>>2043596
agreed, also the fact that every empire by late game has a massive reserve of 100% integrated members of every race that don't cause any issues whatsoever so there's not even a difference in the value of planets

>>2043596
>but the actual gameplay is just disappointing compared to most major space 4x games.
While the homogoneized race does suck in the game, I think the gameplay is one of the strongest features. Even warfare is something done really well here, takes planning and knowing your enemies move moreso than just doomstacking especially the way warp drives functions needing key intellect to make sure you dont get capital sniped or maybe you want to capital snipe yourself. I really like that in this game compared to other games, just the freedom really.

>>2042430
So... like other 4X games.

>>2044432
No not really, Dw2 at least attempts to be original and do something else than 14915th variant of "hey lets just copy MoO2 down 1:1 and see if that works".

I watched a bunch of videos and it looks pretty much the same as DWU, what was the point of making it 3d? also no orbits looks really weird and apparently performance aren't even better
I'm just going to try to get DWU to run with wine instead

>>2045206
I imagine the avoided the orbits to make their path finding a bit quicker. I also don't think it would add much to the gameplay.

>>2045394
Not having orbits removes a massive amount of flavor from the universe. Every bit of art and flavor doesn't add to the gameplay but it's an important for immersing people in the world.

And also, calculating the actual orbits would be insanely expensive. See the n-body problem.

>>2045398
The only way to pull it off without requiring a super-computer would be to fake the orbits, which wouldn't appease the pedants. Even with faked mechanics, you still have much more complex path finding (launch from a moving platform to another moving platform very far apart). Given the game already gives people performance problems, I don't think it's worth it.

>>2045406
I don't think it's the only way to pull it off, but it may be the only way the incompetent developers of the game can do it.

>>2045411
What part are you doubting? That you wouldn't need a super computer to calculate the orbits of an entire galaxy? Pretty sure this is difficult problem for the most competent people on the planet, there's no known analytic solution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-body_problem

>>2045406
Do you think DWU has real orbit simulation? without it a system looks like a bunch of islands in a black sea, fake orbits really helped immersion imo
and iirc ships update their pathfinding pretty slowly, you see it when they try to chase someone who jumps to hyperdrive

>>2045428
Haven't played DWU, but even with the fake orbits, and knowing where things are at each t, optimal path finding is still much more complex, especially when you consider fuel, or navigating through nebulas. Sub optimal path finding where you just aim at the central star, and course correct as you approach could work, but you'd need to have a "worst-case" fuel reserve.

If DWU had this, what reason did the developers give for removing it? Performance I assume?

>>2045439
DWU has orbits, but only in star systems for planets and moons, not on the galaxy scale
>Sub optimal path finding where you just aim at the central star, and course correct as you approach
that's basically how it works iirc

>what reason did the developers give for removing it?
I don't remember what reasons they gave desu, i think it was too much work with the 3d and probably performance worries as well I guess

>>2045406
>>2045401
>>2045439
Nigga its just planets moving in circles, no calculating is required here..

>>2045468
>Eccentricity is always 0
Even with that simplification, the sizes and distances from the center are procedurally generated, so the period of rotation must be calculated, even if you ignore all the effects each planet has on the others. Honestly, I’d rather they just leave it as is than use some dumbed down orbit system.

>>2045479
I should add. Just to be clear, I’m not claiming those “simple” calculations are complex in themselves. Even adding in the moons and satellites (stations+ships) is easy, and there’s a lot of optimizations you can take to cache the rotation/translation matrices.

Here’s Dev’s answer:
—
"Am I crazy or do the planets no longer orbit their stars?
--> I explained this a bit in the stream Q&A, but bottom line is that the the planets still rotate, but they no longer have animated orbits.
Partly this is due to the change in scale, the rest comes down to the difference between having things look ok in 2D where ships and stations moved through each other all the time vs. nice 3D where they need to avoid colliding, enter hangars and docking bays properly, exit construction yards, etc.
Having the orbits match up with the more realistic scale would have meant they would be slow enough that you likely wouldn't notice the movement easily, while at the same time any movement would create a lot more challenges for us in terms of the new 3D mechanism for docking of ships in spaceports and near planets and collision avoidance. We decided ultimately that it wasn't worth adding extremely slow orbits to create a huge amount of extra bugs and work to account for that when we could spend that limited time better elsewhere on other more noticeable features. It's not impossible that orbits may return at some future date, but it's not in the plans right now."

>>2045490
Their answer is a bit strange. All of the calculations they’re talking about could be performed in the same coordinate space (that of the planet). It doesn’t matter how the planet itself is moving, since the local ship movements are relative to the planet.

>>2045494
It gets messy when you factor in moons with coinciding orbits. It was easy in DWU because nothing had collision so each zone of influence could be very small. You even had overlapping bodies since everything was strictly visual. For orbits to work here even if they get zones of influence sorted out moons have to be spaced out or the orbits need to be fixed so that they'll never physically overlap.

>muh orbits nitpicking
It doesn't add anything to the gameplay and barely anything to flavor, there is so much more you can do to improve the second (Endless Space 2 is a great example on how to achieve this)

>>2046016
The thing is, it doesn't seems like DW2 add anything beside much graphics, and remove stuff instead
I'll download it later to give it a shot anyway

>>2046145
There’s tons of things added. The user interface is a lot better, and it’s a 64 bit game vs 32 from before. They can have far larger universes.
https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=10151&t=362140

I also like that even though it went to 3D, the GPU requirements are extremely modest. Played fine on a workstation I have with a very modest 4gb quadro. I heard one of the developers say this game is dependent on cpu, ram, gpu, in that order.

My one quibble with the structure of the game is there is no real pre-ftl stage like the original. But given the change in scale it was probably necessary to start with ftl half researched or it would take an eternity for the game to even begin.

>>2046478
>My one quibble with the structure of the game is there is no real pre-ftl stage like the original
tbf what was that stage, 4x speed for like 50 years while paying tribute to pirates? thats a skip for me honestly.

What's with the turbo apologist in this thread?
>erm it doesn't need flavorful mechanics
>erm it doesn't need flavorful gameplay
>erm, just like, heckin play it
>it's 2 so it's better!

>>2046490
But autistically minmaxing your first ships and watching them slowly crawl in your system is peak comfy

>>2046505
Watching the exploration ships leave the home system is quite neat.
>>2046494
Are you the turbo complainer who cannot get the game to run, so decide to spam “incompetent developers” in every DW2 thread? I get people might have nostalgia for the previous, but why would new players choose the old game over the latest one?

>>2046494
but in terms of flavor theres more of it, especially in regards to things like events and exploration. loads more to discover than in DWU. youre just sperging out over orbits. the gameplay is a near identical copy of dwu too. again youre sperging out over orbits.
>>2046505
i appreciated the faster starts in 2. and you still kinda do hang around in your own starting system for some years in 2 anyways just nowhere near the length in dwu.

There are still ship graveyards in DW2 right? I just want to play teekans and find a big ship graveyard to salvage

>>2046578
yeah

>>2046505
>the first sub ftl ships form their highways across your home system taking months to go from the homeworld to the next planet over
>the first ftl ships are made, and they can cover one end of the solar system to another in mere days, the earliest scouts setting out on their multi-year journeys to begin exploring the neighboring stars
>the trade lanes stretch out from planet to planet to star to star, but the journeys are long
>the next jumps in ftl technology brings a new fleet than can make trips to neighboring stars that once took years in days
Never gets old.

>>2046839
Reminds me of a sci-fi short story
>humanity sends out a generation colony ship as a last resort in a time of crisis
>centuries later the ship arrives, miraculously intact
>they find out that the target of colonisation already has a thriving civilisation
>it turns out that in the time the generation ship took to arrive humanity managed to survive the crisis, invent FTL and begin colonising the stars

>>2046854
That would be the worst feeling knowing your families sacrificed everything for nothing. And worse you are now a people out of time as technology has left you behind.

>>2044432
Not really, for instance in Endless Space 2 different races can play radically different

>le orbits
Go play Kerbal Space Program

>>2046839
Meanwhile, the pre ftl construction ship I sent to the other side of the system without enough fuel to do the return trip is still dragging its slow ass back home

>>2046854
It's so standard that even Starfield did it.

>>2046919
>>2047022
And I like autistically roleplaying the bittersweet feeling of the slowboat colonizers and construction crews who become the Men Out of Time.
And I don’t leave them behind. Anyone out of fuel gets put on the refueling list for tankers to pick up. Every time I conquer a pirate fleet or planetary faction I make sure to go down the list of new acquisitions and look for everyone that’s out of fuel or disabled due to damage and send tankers and construction ships their way.

>>2046854
I read Harry Turtledove did something similar for his World War series, although that one wasn’t about a colony ship but warships sent to counterattack hostile aliens that attacked Earth.

I tried it, I found the UI is somehow worse than DWU
3d graphics are literally irrelevant unless you like playing completely zoomed in for some reason
ship designs is weird, seems like there's basically no choice to make beside weapon loadout, but then why didn't they simplify it like ES2
feels like a waste of 10+ GB desu

>>2049916
>3d graphics are literally irrelevant
It would be confusing as hell, but it would be cool to see 3D taken into account during battles. Instead every race seems to have some universal agreement that all action takes place in the same 2D plane.

>>2049916
There wasn't much choice in DWU either, just the illusion of it because you dragged and dropped items into a spreadsheet to build a ship. There were optimal amounts of everything for any ship size and the only choice really came down to do I drop or downsize a gun for another shield or an engine for a thruster? Those choices still remain, they're just given a structure. Weapons actually having arcs is a more impactful change, but unfortunately the ai likes to design asymmetric abominations

I still can't figure out defense on a strategic level. The AI seems to have full visibility of my planets, their invasion fleet just beelines for whichever one doesn't have a serious ground army. If I intercept they immediately jump towards another one. Even that is assuming I managed to get 20% hightech bonus to research long range sensors and see them coming in the first place.

Works in reverse too, though you're doing it blind. I've won wars without firing a shot, just ignoring his combat fleets and dumping tanks on his planets.

>>2052661
I can't agree because of the hull slots, in DWU your limit is just the max size you can build, you can prioritize whatever you want. When I started DW2, I looked at my starting explorer, it has 3 engines and it won't go any faster until i research new engines

>>2052723
I find myself in the same boat as you where fleet engagements are usually a game of cat and mouse where I’m chasing down aggressors (and of course, occasionally running away). Usually I just keep pursuing.
Hyperdeny helps in keeping hostile fleets pinned.

>>2052741
Yes but in DWU you started with 9? And it was slightly suboptimal, but you could only increase it to 10 or 11 before you started losing speed again. The only choice there is whether you take time to design a custom ship for a little more speed. It was busywork as was unfucking most of the terrible stock designs. The worst aspect of dw2 there is that the design ui is terrible

>>2052723
>I still can't figure out defense on a strategic level.
I like to have small defense fleets, followed by giga defense fleets. Sometimes also have orbital guns at strategic points helps too. Also making sure that the outer ring planets are also the most fortified so if the enemy wants to strike at the weaker planets at the core, you will know.

>>2052723
Ions really help pick off ships and force them to retreat rather than just jump around.

>>2052723
I found a solution, Planetary Shield. It's pretty early tech, doesn't need research bonuses so you can't get locked out of it like with sensors or hyperdeny. Cheap enough to place on every planet, and it kills off 70% of invading forces which is enough for militia to clean up.

>>2057519
Yeah once you get to shoot them. My issue is they would just pop in, see a defense fleet in orbit and immediately jump to another invasion target.

>>2058577
>Yeah once you get to shoot them. My issue is they would just pop in, see a defense fleet in orbit and immediately jump to another invasion target.
hyperdeny. start putting these on your ships. stop those annoying bastards from running away.

>>2041268 (OP)
Not as good as 1.

What should i be doing after starting a game?

>>2061430
Go into your policies
>furthest left tab, submenu on the right
Make sure automation preset is set to default. You can customize this as you learn more about the game. But I would also suggest setting fleet creation and topping up of ships to manual. Partly because the AI can crash your early savings by doing its own thing here but also because your first games should be learning how to military.
Go into your ship designer, sort by state ships and set escort hull upgrades to manual. Your sole responsibility here for your first few games is manually designing your military ships only, let the ai handle everything else. Every time you research a new military ship hull set it to manual and play around with the design.
A safe opening research queue is early warp > research labs > shields > armor > stable warp bubbles. Pirates will come visit either if they are part of your story events, you research stable warp bubbles, or you set up too many mining bases around luxury resources. As long as you set their strength to normal they are more of an annoyance than a real threat but accepting protection treaties they offer is cheaper than getting raided. And if your relations increase enough you can get a NAP which just makes them not fucking with you free.

>>2061435
Thanks i'll try that

>>2061435
you dont really need defenve right away if you're planning to pay off the pirates. I like warp > research > resort bases or w > r > warp depending on the game setup.

>>2062431
pirates are like 12k a year (which is the +/- you see) and losing a freighter/passenger ship isn't a big loss
for me the only reason to pay off pirates is so they don't pollute your map with attack notifs

>>2062460
By not having to research military tech or build military ships in the early game you're getting huge compound research benefits by the late game that imo mean it's a no brainer - plus once you get nonagg and military refueling, if they're in your territory then they function as a huge nuisance to the other empires and you don't have to be at war with them to ensure that damage is happening

>>2047081
My first game of DWU like 10+ years ago I played as Mortalen and rp’d as The Race.

>>2062698
Was it just a fluff thing or did you go full pre-warp slow boat mode?

Holy fuck I forgot I had this in my library! I fucking loved DWU. Thanks anons. I'm gonna go burn up a week of daylight to see how I like this one.

>>2062902
Spirits of Emperors past, no! Playing without research or warp drives would be a fairly one-dimensional experience I’m not nearly autistic enough for.

Idk why private ships can be manually designed. I always have them on auto

>>2064224
If you play as a mercantile guild you can feasibly use your miners as torpedo boats

>>2063329
Please report back! It might finally motivate me to start another playthrough.
>>2064102
Hey, I didn’t say no research, just no warp drives. There’s plenty of ballistics and missile tech for the full Race experience.
It does sound like it’d be an absolute nightmare though.

>>2062597
it sucks either way because its much harder to destroy or capture them than in the last game but if you befriend them instead you get a long term diplomacy penalty with every other faction which sucks for the non military factions. Hopefully the pirate dlc will make them more fun to interact with.

>>2064762
I’d rather be friendly with the pirates, take the long term diplomacy penalty, and then have the pirates hand over all their ships after blowing up enough of the Hive. Blowing up the Hive also nets a lot of positive relations with everyone, and all the pirate vessels (once they switch over) can be retired for research bonuses mid-game.
It does feel bad capitulating to the demands of raiders though.

>>2065029
>It does feel bad capitulating to the demands of raiders though.
I make friends with some of them once I’m big enough to crush them. The ones that bully me in the beginning are always marked for destruction.