Started playing after some anon recommended it here and its good, nice quick rts (match dont usually take longer than 20 mins) with masssive ammount of units.
its basically free and i had some fun so far.

>>2050505 (OP)
recently i started to build energy converters (the bui,lding that converts energy to metal) and it is a nice bonus but i dont know if tier 1 are really worth it, im sure tier 2 are with nuclear power

this is the build order i use as a glitter front noob, i can hold the line at least with this, i copied it from a high level glitter game i spectated

>>2050505 (OP)
Holy shit, I've been playing RTS since 1995 and just learnt about BAR only today. You guys seriously need to market it more.

it's just supcom but bad?

>>2054250
It's cooler like that, feels like cool kidz club

too bad theres no human infantry.

>>2054250
Everytime an RTS thread shows on /v/ somebody mentions it
Still nobody plays videogames in /v/

>>2050508
T1 energy converters are needed but they're extremely inefficient compared to T2 ones
I always build 8 T1 converters at least in any map since it's better to be producing something than getting energy go to waste

>>2050505 (OP)
I really like this game maybe even more then supreme Commander

>>2054399
yes

>>2054399
it's just nu-TA
to you fucking zoomers

>>2050508
I build a few energy converters early since they only work if you're above a certain level of power. It's mostly to ensure that if I'd be wasting power it'll at least convert to metal for me.

>>2050505 (OP)
How good is the AI?

>>2059591
Nothing too special, but at times it plays like a true compfag, like sending some early units to your base, having them stay just outside the range of your defenders, picking off your undefended buildings, and running around all over the place as you try to chase them.

>>2059251
pacing and gameplay is much close to TA, copying some unit designs doesn't matter much

>>2059609
>to TA,
*to SC,

>>2050505 (OP)
I tried this game a bit a long time ago. It showed potential but was not finished. Did they finally implement the ability to chose your color in singleplayer skirmish against AI? I'm mostly interested in playing singleplayer.

Current faggot moderators and developers stole this game.

Started as open source Spring engine. They then stole the game, purposefully fucked the previous builds of the game and then ban anyone who mentions their kikery.
It's your duty to install the game and troll multiplayer games to drive players away.

Fuck the devs. Thieving kike cunts!

>>2050508
>t1 converters
>front
you don't build those as front, and yes, you can see some high OS players building them, but it's kinda retarded to just take anything high OS players do as authority because they could very much be high OS from other things than having optimal eco

as a new player it would be way better for you to think on when to build E storage than thinking about t1 converters

and to explain it so you don't have to take my post as a random contrarian:
>T1 converter needs 70E for 1M/s
>you have to build 70E first of all
>using the shitters map, at an avg wind of 12, you'd need on average 6 winds for the T1 converter to work
>assuming armada winds at 40M it means you spend 240M for 1M/s that pays itself in 4mins
>this is also assuming only metal costs, but if you throw in E cost it takes longer to pay itself

so every time you're building t1 converters you're at least making an investment over 4 mins to pay itself, and 4 more mins for it to give you its cost as profit, so it's like spending 240M at the start to get +240M 8 minutes later, and in this game's economy there's a huge metal "inflation", which means +240M 8mins later is "worth" shit compared to 240M right now. I'm not good at math or even economics, but I'm pretty sure if you assume the metal growth in a metal rich map like shitters, the conclusion would be that t1 converters literally never "effectively" pay themselves back because they just can't generate metal in time for the metal that they generate be relevant compared to the higher "value" of the early metal you had to invest

if the above is true that t1 converters never pay for themselves, then it would actually be more worth it to just let your E overflow to your allies/tech (if you happen to overflow) than building t1 converters. in an ideal scenario you'd just not over build energy, and you'd build E storage to store the E you'd have overflown

>>2061764
You just need like 10 T1 converters tops if you're at the front to keep the pace at the beginning
When you hit T2 just replace them with 1 advanced and it's the same but more efficient

You shouldn't do a t1 converter farm ever

The new update has massively optimized the game.
Pretty lights too.
>mfw sitting at 144 fps the whole 8v8 game

>>2062350
nigga didn't you read the entire post, 10 t1 converters is 2400M of investment, not to mention the huge build cost for the wind, just build t2 lab at this point?

why would you invest 2400M into +2400M later when you could just build mex as front in a metal rich map like shitters, and then pay 400M to tech so you can get T2 mex. each one will make 7.3M/s for 620M (720M counting E/s cost), you'll build like 3 of them with the M you'd have wasted on t1 converters and then get 22M/s income that pays itself back way faster instead of 10M/s that takes ages to pay itself. building 10 t1 converters is the opposite of "keeping the pace" when you're front

niggas over build E and then put it into terrible investments instead of just not over building E in the first place and using E storage, so you have metal available to make real investments

game is cool but moderation is atrocious, 90% of the bans are for racism, even i got banned for telling an afk retard a piece of shit nigger .

>>2062517
>racism over the internet.
what the fuck is this idiocy?? how can text messages be racist moderators are IDIOTS, i will never give a single cent to those niggers if they want to comercialize the game

>>2062517
Well nothing else to expect from an open source project, of course only faggots are going to nolife for the opportunity to become mods
What multiplayer game will let you say nigger without getting insta banned

>>2062517
What did you expect, retard? Seriously. I'm glad ragers with no self-control like you get banned lol.

>>2050508
Energy converters are shit. Don't use them. You will be more likely to win if you just simply build units. Eco is a thing people like to do because they don't actually know how to play the game. If all 8 people played front or 7 front and 1 air, they would beat the shit out of the team that has eco. Eco only wins when the opponent isn't using their units, in which case you would win even earlier if you just had units and killed them.

>>2056280
Just build one estorage and don't over invest on energy. Would be better if that metal were units instead of energy converters.

>>2059370
That means you spent too much on energy. If you spend a bunch on energy and energy converters early, you're just simply going to be wiped out by anyone half decent.

>>2059591
The AI is retarded. They only attack when their units won't make cost and don't attack when they would make cost. They spend far too much time not using units and constantly retreating them to the other side of the map instead of having them focus.

>>2062521
It's open source. It'll never be commercialised and you will never have the opportunity to deny your money to them.

>>2062664
>If all 8 people played front or 7 front and 1 air, they would beat the shit out of the team that has eco
8 front gets countered by 7 front and 1 air (for obvious reasons), and that gets countered by 6 front 1 air 1 tech
if you get 7 front and 1 air, the extra 1 front you get doesn't impact the front so much for it to be worth it. the enemy with the tech at 6 mins is going to pump t2 for the team, and the other team with the extra 1 front isn't going to win in less than 6 mins, especially on a map with very defined fronts that get defensive easily

>>2062694
The extra front will cause a 2v1 in some lane. It will be a very quick death for the eco team. The tech team will suffer from army value while the front team will pile up its army value and cause a very one sided map. Eco only wins against noobs that don't make use of their units.

>>2062696
>The extra front will cause a 2v1 in some lane. It will be a very quick death for the eco team
that isn't going to win the game on glitters. the eco is coming from metal starved spot so he can't even pump as many units as the 4 fronts, the lab will be too far away so he'll have to make a front lab to compensate. the impact will be negligible. he's just going to enter into a 3v2 and the receiving 2 are going to know the enemy is sacrificing eco, so they'll just sit and turtle to delay a quick death. it's more than enough for +6 mins to pass, everyone will get t2 cons, and then tech will make t2 units that make the value of t1 units go downhill. I could see some meme strat like the eco massing medium tanks and then sending all of them into some weak spot out of nowhere, but that's as risky as a nuke rush when you get known for the strat or get scouted

>>2062713
A t2 factory worth of extra tanks will win the game. They will have extra metal because they will be taking the mexes from the enemy side easily.
>turtle
That's just spending metal to tell the enemy to attack someone else. Now it will be a 3v1. The army value will snowball for the front team from army value being worth more as well as having the tech team's reclaim too. Tech team will lose their army value. Even if tech team survives long enough to get t2 out, the rest of the team will collapse.

>>2062729
that has to be vs a bad team. a good team will hold it down pretty hard, they'll actually dgun shit, will actually move units to defend weak spots. 1 t2 lab of units might seem impressive, until you remember that the 4 fronts have +2x the tech spot M income. the t2 lab cost isn't so impressive when you remember you're making a super lean build, eating lab and eating com, and you still have to ask for M to get cons out. if the guy is playing front he's not going make a such a lean build, he's not going to eat lab or com, the real amount of M he gets to spend is like half. when considering glitters the entire front is basically turtle lol, so ok you moved from attacking heavy turtle to medium turtle, and it's still 2v3 because the 2 back guys should be moving to help the 2 ally front players they'll be next to, and I'm assuming the backline front guy on your team is helping you + the normal front, so that's why 3v2

>>2062746
The t2 metal extractors cost metal. The construction bots cost metal. The front team will have so much more army value by the time the t2 metal extractors for everyone are finished. Also an extra commander to be used is a very powerful thing. The tech team also loses out on mobile build power and so will lose on the war of attrition. A strong front team will skirmish the tech team commanders without risking their assault units. Commanders take a lot of build energy to repair. When tech team moves to support their allies, front team can just move their forces elsewhere and not be disadvantaged anywhere because they have extra forces. Tech team will not be able to cope with the extra army value front team has, which has the ability to concentrate forces anywhere. Front team really does have the metal advantage because they are snacking on tech team's reclaim, probably greater than the t2 factory in whole. Front team's army value rises over time while tech team decreases. Front team has to actively be retarded to not be able to make much better cost than tech team in their engagements. Tech team isn't holding. They are losing army value rapidly.

>>2062770
yeah t2 costs metal but it's worth the entire team getting higher tech than 1 extra t1 tard, the tech diff is way more overpowering than 1 extra guy on a metal starved spot walking around the front, which is why the extra army value isn't even big enough to end the game right away, and it could be offset significantly just by the tech team nooticing the enemy doesn't have eco and then turtling by leaning a bit more on units. BAR turtle doesn't necessarily mean "build turrets bro", it's more about eco-ing less, especially since your strat is rush based, if you can't win or make a huge advantage at a limited amount of time you'll get out teched, and turtling is going to counter a time based rush like that. also reclaim is a bit eh, because you have to trade and also sit on the reclaim, which is way harder when you're forced to attack, as the reclaim field is going to be on the enemy's side and turn into a feed. you'll be forced to trade into turrets and retreating enemies, which have a higher effective range since you're going into their projectiles and they're moving away from yours. when you also consider that t1 raids should be stopped or heavily weakened by air emp, it really puts down that strat being consistently viable, the tech team is going to stall you enough for them to get a tech advantage that dwarfs extra t1 army value. the final nail in the coffin would be a coop t2 lab, it would shorten the time you have available for your rush strat to the point you get 10 medium tanks out from the tech spot the enemy is already making t2 units and you'd be forced to respond

>>2062812
Turtling doesn't work when the opponent has more army value than you and can pick any spot of the map. The reclaim is on the front's side because the front made the reclaim field their side due to their army value. Front has higher army value so the tech team will lose their army faster. It's not much of a trade for front team because the higher army value increases the individual effectiveness of each unit and so they aren't really losing much while tech is losing everything. Lots of metal needs to be spent to support a t2 economy, which could've been spent on army. Front is earning army much faster due to metal being spent on units instead of useless stuff, having both reclaim, and not losing as much. Tech team will collapse too fast to be able to stall. Air emp will get blown away by fighters, or punished with bombers. Air can't emp the entire frontline at once. The tanks will be everywhere the t2 units aren't, winning the game. Even if the tanks have to engage the t2 units, the t2 units simply wouldn't even be able to make cost just die to the shear amount of extra tanks front has.

>>2062366
I don't understand what you're talking about.
Converters cost 1M (metal) and 1250E (energy)

Where are you getting these numbers from?
Also it is always better to get extractors obviously, but it's plain obvious the usefulness of just a few T1 converters. I don't even know what you're trying to say, as if you're talking like T1 converters shouldn't be even available in the game by design? And of course, you're thinking in extractors available as if they were open and unchallenged forever in a dynamic match with fluctuating resources. Sometimes you have excellent extractors no contesting, sometimes the enemy fucks up and feeds you their metal which is even better and lets you jump to T2 right away. But sometimes you don't, and have lots of energy to spare and you're just short of Metal. If only there was a WAY to convert excess energy into metal...

As for storage of course, it's needed to have storage for both resources.

>>2062857
And if you're talking about 2400 of Energy spent in metal converters to recoup the costs ok it's fine, BUT you can control when to spend that excess into metal conversion, and it's not really that much of a big deal as you make it out to be. If your idea and crunching numbers were correct, everyone in the game, forums and developers would already know about this "meta", and everyone would know already what to build and whatnot. Glitters and Strait are so solved there's really no discussion to be made as of it right now.

>>2062857
>>2062870
The cost of energy converters also cost the energy producers to feed them. You are spending way too much on eco you don't need if you need to build energy converters to make use of it. Just reclaim the excess energy producers instead of doubling down. Spending metal on units is also an economical thing, a much more efficient one at that. When you have more army value than the opponent, then your opponent will lose army value faster than you will during an engagement with a reasonable army composition due to the lanchester square law. The value each individual unit can make is almost proportional to the value of the entire army that is engaged divided by the value of the enemy army that is engaged, assuming equal composition. You will also get their reclaim when you collapse their front, making your army value snowball while emptying theirs.

>>2062531
every single game with voice chat?

>>2062517
I mean, there's an argument to be made that it's overmoderated, but it is really that hard to not call people niggerfaggots when it's not just anons around?

>>2062916
Oh ok I get your point, but still seems like a gambit to me

I'm not fresh on numbers and timings right now, but the cost of the T2 Factory is quite big energy wise and you will need extra windmills to support that kind of expense. Staying at an "efficient" spending of T1 units will not make it so the T2 cost is paid up, and that's if you don't get your shit pushed in, or at least, having a fair back and forth at the front. You will lose units and they will get replaced. There's no reason to stop building energy at any moment and to store it

As for the T1 converters yes they're insanely inneficient and more of a necessary evil in certain maps where there just aren't enough metal spots available.

>>2062977
I had to cut my reply short but yeah, i get your idea

I am in fact going to try to stay at "optimal" spending on a frontline in T1 without building excess energy and see if that works in a reasonable time frame, on Glitters only of course, just for shits and giggles. Love some Thug spam or Satyr blankets

>>2062671
In an ideal world, you never need energy converters or storage, but in practice a couple will help smooth things out while you're still getting the hang of things.

>>2062857
ok seems like I have to draw it
>pic
do you realize that only the cost to build t1 converters doesn't actually fucking matter because you'd be building something that literally does nothing and just serves to explode stuff in your base if you get raided?

>as if you're talking like T1 converters shouldn't be even available in the game by design
no, you didn't understand anything if that's what you took from it. t1 converters are an investment, but you have to make the investment if it makes sense. it makes no sense to build them on glitters or other metal rich maps if you're a front nigger because mexes are always going to be better than t1 converters and you're not capped on them. you realize that 3 T2 mexes costs about the same as 10 T1 converters and gives 2x the income? glitters front has like 10 mexes for you to take, you'd have to make them T2 first for you to think about converters, but at that point you're making like +70M/s, so you're not going to build T1 crap anyway

>If your idea and crunching numbers were correct, everyone in the game, forums and developers would already know about this "meta"
what's incorrect then? T1 converters don't require 70E/s surplus for it to make 1M/s? or am I hallucinating here? because that's all that there is to it
also, people don't care about playing optimally everywhere, there are noobs that build the damn metal storages at the start of the game, you don't need perfect eco to be high OS if you're a glitters baby, you can just afk wind farm and build t1 converters to "compensate" for your afk farm

at this point I actually think I'm getting trolled here between you guys saying that t1 converters are decent deals and the other guy saying that the tech spot would be better running around the frontline with his income from a metal starved spot instead of teching up the entire team

>>2050505 (OP)
Gookclick.

I just got off the BEST matches i've ever had and revitalized my love for RTS games
Baited and broke two players, raided bases and pulverized 3 commanders with Starfall shots. I love this game

>>2063258
Your shit only works on Glitters so it's a nothingburger

>>2063295
>Your shit only works on Glitters
if you're a monkey then maybe, yeah
you'd need a personal guide on how to play each map in each pos

>>2063258
What I definitely get from this is that it's good that there's no such thing as t3 converters.

>>2063314
no such thing as T3 desu

>>2063331
Experimental shit counts.

>>2061764
what is this retarded shit? are you some kind of eco only faggot who never built a single unit in his life?
you will need to build tons of wind to transition to t2/expand production/operate llts/dguns anyway in this game hell 6 wind is bare minumum to operate a lab and you will build converters to cope with excesses that will inevitably happen.
>glitters
oh that explains it

>>2063467
I don't main glitters though, but seems like I have to explain the map for niggertards like you that can only play against AI
>are you some kind of eco only faggot who never built a single unit in his life?
I'm literally talking about front the whole time as that's the main topic, and I'm not saying what the fuck you should do with the t1 converter metal because that's up to your strat. only a disingenuous faggot like you would make that conclusion you had
>you will build converters to cope with excesses that will inevitably happen
because you're afk farming and overbuilding E like a retard, if you're overflowing so much you have to make t1 converters then it's just overbuilt E, you nigger. it would be better to just feed your tech if you're going to do retarded shit like that, and then you can get t2 mexes earlier

it's actually incredible, a literal chimp has 4 t1 converters working, which means he's already making +280E than needed, and then he goes "OH BUT I'M ACTUALLY USING THIS FOR MY LLTs".
the players actually live up to the game's name, it's beyond all reason. I'm not going to reply to this shit anymore, go ahead and make your t1 converters farms as if you were playing on greenest fields

>>2063258
The tech spot is actually a good frontline spot. Their metal income comes from the extra reclaim and enemy mexes. Glitter babies just did the eco meta because they don't want to play the actual game, not because it's an actually good meta.

stop lying. you are a retarded glitter eco main that much is obvious.

you cant go t2 with 6 wind you have to have a lot of wind to go t2 with a t2 con you were given/sold or else you will stall out forever and your enemy overruns you with fucking t1 units at that point someone else has to step in compromising the entire game. Its. That. Fucking. Simple.
you have gradually build out e to efficiently and quickly go t2 and you HAVE to build converters to manage excesses coz t1 labs cant consume that much e.
wind fluctuations and rez e reclaim make it impossible to perfectly judge your e production - to manage excess you have to build converters anyway in any type of game do not build converters as front my ass you build them on all positions coz you have to.

only eco main tards think of wind as something that needs to "repay" its cost its already the most efficient e producer on most maps the only thing that is more efficient is geo and t2 wind

do not fucking reply you poison our noobs with your shit advice.

>>2063513
>Their metal income comes from the extra reclaim and enemy mexes
what extra reclaim and enemy mexes lmfao
you're sacrificing tech to have a retard up front, you HAVE to make it be worth it before the enemy team techs up, while being in a spot that is far away from the front and also has less than half of the M the main fronts have, you'll have way less impact than you're thinking
since you're forced to attack for your strat to work, the reclaim is going to be on the enemy side, you'll have to sit on mexes on the enemy side for you to profit. glitters front is easy to defend and is one of the main reasons why it's a super popular map, any decent team can stall your strat until the tech up becomes a better option
if your meta is so good then why aren't you farming the babies? just join the highest OS glitters lobby you can find and just farm bro

>you are a retarded glitter eco main that much is obvious
>you cant go t2 with 6 wind
what's the point of discussing against a faggot that can only strawman or ad hominem when I'm trying to honestly use the best case scenario to see if a strat is worth it

chimp HAS to build t1 converters because he overflows the entire game, kek. brings up wind fluctuation because he can't build solar or E storage, kek. actual lobster

>>2063546
>extra reclaim and enemy mexes
Extra mexes will occur early game when the extra front 2v1 and rapes someone. They'll get more reclaim because there is more metal spent on army, which allows them to take the enemy reclaim since they can't hold against a proper 2v1 rush. The enemy is actually donating their metal to you in this scenario so not only are you getting a strong economy from reclaim, but theirs is hindered and they won't have any army to defend. No, your dumb wall gimmicks won't defend against a good tank rush.

OS is relative skill, and if a group of people only play glitters lobbies, then that skill is just relative to the average retard. Being extremely superior to a glitters retard doesn't necessarily mean you're not a retard, they're just that retarded. A 60 OS rotato player will rape a 60 OS glitters tard in glitters any day.

>>2063566
>OS babble
nice try deflecting with that, but you weren't expecting me to tell you to play against OS 5 dudes to test your strat, right?

>extra front 2v1 and rapes someone
it's 3v2, you tard, seems like you never played the fucking map, or even anything that isn't against AI, because you're thinking that (you) pushing into the enemy is suddenly them making a "donation" (??). you're just going to bring in a few more tanks from your metal starved spot, and then you'll have to make a move with them quickly, so you'll push into the enemy against turrets, retreating units, dgunning commanders. if you even manage to get a significant raid the enemy air should just emp your shit since any t1 raid should be stopped by air emp, and no, your air isn't going to send his air into enemy territory that has AA. with all of this you're not going to win in less than 6 minutes. your entire strat is a headcanon gimmick, you're not going to test it in lobbies against experienced players anyway, you're posting this trash here just as some slop

just stop replying bro close the browser tab do it

now for the noobs being confused by this retard remember this:
converters are only used to protect against e overflow
storage is only used to protect against low wind
thats the only use case for these buildings any other usecase is actually inefficient

>>2063581
>OS
60 OS glitter lobbies are equivalent to 10 OS rotato lobbies in skill.
>2v1
There's enough space to force a 2v1 anywhere, and your lane neighbours can help keep it a 2v1 if the enemy merges.
>donation
Their territory is now your territory. If they retreat, then you are sniffing their bases. Tanks can dodge d-guns and turn the commanders i to metal. The air player absolutely would help deal with the emp drones because that will remove their last line of defense against the winning push. Also bringing a single missile tank will literally invalidate every single rocket bot the enemy has if they have them for some reason. They won't be able to retreat safely.

>hello fellow noobs! follow my use cases like a retard and don't use your brain!
yep, that's peak noob advice desu
>it doesn't matter I'm overflowing like crazy just "protect" it with 5 converters and keep building more more E, just keep protecting bro

>>2063593
>60 OS glitter lobbies are equivalent to 10 OS rotato lobbies in skill
great, so that means you'll test your strat on the highest lobby with no issue right? or you'll deflect again with OS babble?

>2v1
yeah you actually never played the map. "just force a 2v1" with the enemy seeing you're not teching, and the lanes you're attacking crying for the front support to help, and then you'll cry for your front support to help you, so it'll be a 3v2
>Their territory is now your territory
lol what. this is why your shit is just headcanon, you're just imagining "10 tanks is more than 6 tanks so I win". you'll trade worse because you're forced to move into the enemy, you're going into defense, moving into enemy projectiles and coms that'll dgun your shit so you'll have to go slower or you have to bring janus which can get countered in other ways. you're already starting to talk about bringing slow shit like whistlers
>my air is definitely going to think it's a good idea to suicide all the figs for a single t1 raid when the enemy air can still make emp after the suicide
just try your strat against an experienced lobby, it's that simple

>>2063629
>testing
That would actually require playing on a glitters lobby. Not a reasonable ask.
>2v1
The only people crying will be the enemy.
>territory
Their tanks will get mogged. Retreat advantage doesn't matter because you can just dodge them. The single missile tank will also force them to not fuck around at the barriers of the ranges.
>defense
What defense? Walls don't matter because tanks can close in the distance. Static defenses are less cost effective than tank spam. That would just be more metal for me if the enemy is retarded enough to do that. Raiders will get mogged. Their tanks will get mogged. D-guns are too slow for the tanks and the tanks can literally decide whether they want to engage with the commanders or not. The missile truck can also kill the commanders after the tanks just simply dodge and go past them. Your entire argument is just thinking I will actively move into their projectiles instead of doing the normal thing by moving away from them.
>air
The push wins the game. The fighters would actually make use if they killed the emp drones versus just flying around doing nothing all game.

>>2063655
>That would actually require playing on a glitters lobby
with shit like "my single whistler is going to counter the enemy", "I'll just move around on this choked map", and "I'll definitely win the game in a few minutes if my air suicides all his figs" it seems like it would require you to play the game at all
you're free to try this on any map somewhat similar to glitters, like koom or rosetta, which are common rotato maps, but you'll deflect because you don't play the game at all lol

>>2063674
No one ecos on koom or rosetta.

>>2063675
bc you never played the game, chatgpt

>>2063678
There are actually no eco maps.

>>2063681
>starts another afus

>that guy that insists his numbers work
>But only in a vacuum, with no pressure, on an specific map, following a specific recipe

>>2063909 (You)
That is what anon is doing by simply not wasting metal on energy converters. How about (You) bring plasma cannons to the front and use (You)r units instead of building absolutely useless energy converters that don't achieve anything.

>>2063913

>>2063951
If you are making use of an energy converter, then you spent metal on 4-6 useless wind turbines that don't achieve anything. That could've been spent on units instead.

>>2050505 (OP)
I hate having an army of robots and I hate the way you build units and manage resources. It feels so clunky. The economy is so stupid, just building a bunch of resource nodes.

>>2063971
Just play zero-k instead. Factories are much more self sufficient so you can march your commander as soon as it's plopped. Metal, energy and build energy costs are 1:1:1 so you just plop a solar next to your mexes. Build power is cheaper too so you don't need to build a million build turrets to get anything done. You get straight to the action since the very beginning of a match and it doesn't end until the match ends.

>>2063988
>there comes the Zero-P(layers) anon to the BAR thread

>>2063951
>he builds conturrets AKA huge energy consumers that cost a ton just to build
At least normal builders passively generate a bit of it.

>>2063998
>now this guy is challenging the idea of building the Builder turrets to save some energy

>>2063988
I don't like the game fundamentally I don't see how you are offering my a solution here. I just don't like the game.

>>2064008
By offering a different and better game.

>>2064003
Not even the same anon but I bet you are the nigger who builds a shield bubble at the homebase while there are 0 confirmed big cannons instead of fighting at the front. The only thing a conturret can do that 2-3 workers can't is eat a tick.

>>2064019
*obviously air is allowed conturrets because his builders suck ass to not be OP

>>2063998
You are the reason RTS is deal, kill yourself

You know you can save a LOT of resources by building ticks and just ticks
And if you wait for 15 mins with lots of storage and 10 windmills on an average of 15 you could get a decent amount of energy saved up for retirement

It's all about being a smart investor, not a hard worker

>>2064030
Ticks cost like 28 metal each while looking no more than 12 and having the health of 9. More people should be aware of the Big Tick Scam. Grunts is where it's at. The Grunt is Grand.

>>2064043
But do you know how much you lose when building Grunts? Metal has an inflation you know, and even though they seem cheap, you need several of them that could've been saved for the future. Of course, those scammers on the frontline will tell you it's necessary to invest in a strong military program, but is it? i mean they're the ones with all the mexes in front of them. Why should I get taxed?

As an eco player, you should invest in safe but long term venues. That's what is going to give you a peaceful retirement condo with an affordable rent.

>>2064043
Grunts suck and are only good for kiting (aka losing). Pawn spam is where it's truly at.

Time to drop some hard truths:
>Conturrets are a con, it's in the name, bubbletards raging at me or trying to ridicule me while not providing any counterargument prove me right.
>The only good t1 energy converter is the cortex one (it's design is cool, slick and small, arm's one isn't cheesy enough despite resembling cheese and Legion's one tries too hard)
>constructors are a con, every time air asks tech or eco or somebody to con them
>countless APM could be saved by typing "ack" in chat instead of the too long "trans"

>>2050505 (OP)
i would love to have a cinematic follow unit camera, but the game is still kind of ugly and i suck ass. it makes me think about age of mythology, those 1st gen 3d rts with ugly as fuck models

>>2064278
>yellow lost
this is the winning push by opposing team, i know no one plays rts for graphics but its always cool to be able to see individual units from any angle, used to isometric classics

>>2064288
>building wind in the tropics
i suck so bad that i end up resigning and spectating from strange angles

lol it's actually hilarious waking up to this thread now. that anon got so buttblasted about t1 converters being shit that he needs to meme his way into trying to ridicule my simple advice of "just look into the t1 converter cost and compare it to other ways of getting metal". the cope about "it only works in a vacuum" is like saying t1 converter's cost doesn't exist in any other map. better to just queue 100 converters at the start and get 100M/s since the cost is in a "vacuum"

>>2063314
There is a setting to enable t3 eco but it's just t2 x10 with ridiculous costs.

>>2063258
The point of metal makers is that they let you get metal when you lack the ability to expand or hold or when you're playing on metal poor maps. How the fuck do you not know this. This was basic knowledge 28 years ago.

>>2065728
That's obvious but he's an autistic retard making a scene

>>2065728
>>2065964
you're actually fucking retarded beyond salvation at this point

>when you lack the ability to expand or hold or when you're playing on metal poor maps
>how the fuck do you not know this
if you weren't retarded and was able to read you'd see that I do know about this. now, if you had at minimum 100 IQ (which you don't) you would be able to see the costs of things instead of just following a behavior flowchart on when to build certain things like a dumb AI, you're like a vibe coder but for building, you just build shit based on vibes or what X tard told you to. I honestly didn't know that simply bringing out the cost of t1 converters would make vibe builders go ape shit, you guys prob build metal storage at the start of the game or queue lolcannon on 1 afus

>>2066402
What you don't get is that you're not building wind dedicated for makers, you're building wind because you need energy period and the makers let you turn periods of high wind into metal. You don't even have to micro makers.

>>2066501
If the metal makers are making metal, then you built way too many wind turbines. Just build an energy storage for the downfalls then build units. You do not ever actually need to make a metal maker in a real game.

>mathematical argument
>no numbers presented

>>2066533
Tell that to literally everyone at the top ranks.

>>2066645
All the good players haven't placed metal makers for years outside of some meme events.

>>2066647
False.

>>2066533
>you built way too many wind turbines. Just build an energy storage for the downfalls then build units. You do not ever actually need to make a metal maker in a real game.
Giga retard, you're going to have energy surplus all the time until you do a building drain in which case it's a massive expense, but in any other moment there's gonna be stored energy sitting doing nothing. Building some T1 converters is not only viable but needed in some maps. Obviously you're not going to go overboard and overspend on such insane bad yield, but it does help to pump out what you need. Having energy sitting around doing nothing while you starve in metal is dumb as fuck, silly and stupid, all three bundled together and named (((you))).
There's also a little square in the energy bar, and you're not going to believe this, but you can tell that bar when you want the converters to kick in. And another thing about metal converters: 5 of them already make more than 2 metal spots on average.

>Are you starved for metal?
>Yes
>Build some converters

>No
>Then fuck off

>>2066857
Building one energy storage is far cheaper than building enough wind turbines to cover through the downfalls. The reserved energy will do something when wind falls. If you somehow waste energy with an energy storage, then you built far too many wind turbines in the first place. It's better to just reclaim your wind turbines than doubling down by building 5 fucking energy converters. Reclaiming metal also exists, so having energy in storage is good for that to account for additional metal income. Consider building units instead of wind turbines. Units are what win the game.

>>2054473
TA didnt have any human infantry. these are vehicles on alien worlds with no atmosphere and shit

what I learned from my years of playing TA derivative games is that if you have to resort to building t1 converters then you fucked up and on the back foot already, those resources should've been spent on one of the following:
>units to secure mexes and territory
>units to kill enemy mexes to even out the income
>units to strike a crippling blow on the enemy that lets you finish soon
>tech your mexes to T2

I don't play team games btw

>>2067397
You learned wrong, and especially for 1v1 where holding territory is much harder.

>>2067415
You might be having trouble with controlling territory because you're spending your metal on energy converters instead of units.

Overspending in anything that doesn't pay back for itself is bad, this isn't surprising
However, eating up windmills to pump out 1 Thug and say you're recycling to not "overspend in energy" is incredibly retorddod

>>2066501
>high wind into metal
why would you rely on this instead of putting the energy into t2 mex or overflowing to your tech

let's say avg wind is 12, and it's on high wind, it's at 16 for 1 minute, you have 40 winds
>difference is 4E/s (16 -12)
>40 winds*4E/s = 160E/s of overflow
>t1 converter costs 70E/s for 1M/s
>160E/70E = ~2.2M
>~2.2M for 60s (1 minute) = 132M
so you're relying on getting 132M after an entire minute of you overflowing on high wind. idk my nigga but I'd prefer to just send the E to allies needing help or just store it, it's almost 10kE that could help investing on t2 mex as I've repeated countless times here, but the vibe builders think that t1 converting is better than t2 mex anyway, honestly can't help anymore

>>2067667
I never demanded what you should spend the metal on, never said to reclaim winds, you do that with solars. I already said that *noobs* should probably not take the metal from E to spend on units because if they're noobs they're more likely to just do nothing with the units, which is just metal doing nothing, or they can feed which is even worse, but after you learn how to extract value with your units then your strat could very much be unit focused. of course niggas can't read at all so they'd rather just make up some strawman to attack

>>2067720
also, if there was a widget that showed you a graph of how much M certain buildings produced vs cost it would be easier

>>2067720
Noobs should focus on improving rather than being safe. Only way to improve is to learn how to use units effectively. If they feed then they'll learn not to feed. We don't need forever noobs that just want to eco as frontline.

>>2067843
I'm surprised how many players are eco players
Front, backline, anywhere, all waiting for something to happen but they never make it happen. You can type, ping, ask nicely, draw, tag, and they will not answer back. They will have the resources to pump a bit of army and will not. They will slowly build Fusion Reactors (no actual Adv Fusion Reactors) and never ever bring a single plasma cannon unit to the front. They will not even build defenses.

The enemy, or you, can often do a two man or a three man push and overwhelm a lane and more often than not the opposing team won't react. It's considered cheese even by some, to do this on Strait, because it's such an easy win in less than 10 minutes. And it would be so easy to coordinate a defense, but nobody is prepared mentally to leave their "lane" of thought.

>>2067415
oh yeah I guess I'll just concede the map to my enemy and rely of sub-optimal resource sources lul

>>2068132
>I'm surprised how many players would rather goof off rather than lock in and win
As someone who's read a few singleplayer vs multiplayer threads and played some TF2 in his time... trust me, it's not remotely surprising.

>>2068273
You will never be able to hold everything until T2.

>>2067843
I can see that but for this game it's better to teach noobs a balanced approach instead of only units or only eco, that's stuff that the noob can make up strats for as he becomes better overall. I wouldn't want a noob that only knows how to pump units and can't scale because he's going to be more and more useless as the game goes on and everyone is scaling more

>>2068435
NTA but my scaling balance is to pump never ending T1 army on the frontline while reclaiming the enemy as much as possible. If the enemy is not doing so he'll get overwhelmed by me. At the same time, when the time is right I jump to T2 cons and start doing 1 FU and 2 T2 converters per FU. Around 4 FUs and 8Metal Converters it's enough to start an AFU. This is a flow growth, without sacrificing frontline power nor pressure power. Obviously a bountiful hunt could just jump you into an AFU and your energy problems are solved. But generally that's my go to flowchart.

I was briefly interested in this game but whenever I read about it, including this discussion especially, it sounds super complicated.

All units still look exactly the same. And that's before I zoom out.

>>2050505 (OP)
>supcom except every unit looks boring and is a clone of each other
No reason to not just play supcom instead

>>2068795
>smaller scale than supcom
>micro doesn't get drowned out as badly
>no adjacency bonuses
>doesn't become an unplayable piece of shit in lategame like supcom
I see plenty of reasons.

>>2069057
Smaller scale is a bad thing
Gookclick becoming more important is a very bad thing
Adjacency bonuses I'm neutral about
I'll give you the last one, but it's simply not worth all that is lost

>>2069158
No it's not.
That's not gookclick, gookclick is players having to babysit retarded unit AI and fight the UI just to play the game.

>>2069057
Sounds like you just want to play SC but with better UI
>>no adjacency bonuses
You trade adjacency bonus for BAR's paper buildings which is just a downgrade
>>doesn't become an unplayable piece of shit in lategame like supcom
You mean performance? This is just an engine issue that can only be solved by making another game. Hopefully Shattered Sun comes out great

BAR's economy is retarded. The cost ratios of metal, energy and build energy are all over the place, with build energy being a relatively hidden stat that requires pulling up the detailed information panel to see (who actually does that?). Factories also do fuck all on their own and you need to follow some specific build order to get your factory actually going. These add nothing of value to the game.

>>2069237
No, I want to play a modernized TA and BAR is as close as it gets.

>>2069465
>Place a factory
>It works
ya wot m8

>>2069941
>t1 factory build power 100
>commander build power 300
>1 little construction turret bp 200

>>2069465
The only difference is the con turret and its long range and higher power. You're supposed to have to support your factory with your comm or builders. Been true for 28 years.

>>2063971
You're actually fucking retarded. Flow economies and queued units are objectively less clunky and fiddly than the normal alternatives. I don't give a fuck if you don't like it or not, don't call it something it's not.

>>2071559
Yeah, no. The eco layer is really awkwardly put together and the whole academic dispute above about a single aspect of it shows how cumbersome, convoluted and ass-backwards the whole system is.

>>2071891
No.

>>2071891
>and the whole academic dispute above about a single aspect of it shows how cumbersome, convoluted and ass-backwards the whole system is
That's because the game's UI doesn't give actual information on the economy. The top bars show your income in seconds but everything else shows a static cost that is rather useless in flow economy, instead you want to know the cost of everything in seconds based on buildtime and buildpower. If you want to pump 20 pawns per minute you want to know how much build power you'll need assisting the factory and how much p/second it'll drain in metal and energy, the total cost of 20 pawns isn't that useful, and the game can't even do that, it'll only give you the total cost of 1 unit (and no build cost, unless you deliberately look for it).

Another thing is that the game doesn't show you what is generating what income, you just have everything lumped together with mex/converters/reclaim, and solars/wind/fus/afus/tidal/reclaim, so for most people, they don't even know what the fuck is making what amount of income unless they autistically go looking for it, as long as the numbers are going up and nothing is stalling for too long then it's good.

Flow eco is superior to everything else but you need to design UI specific for it otherwise the entire thing seems convoluted

>>2071947
>That's because the game's UI doesn't give actual information on the economy. The top bars show your income in seconds but everything else shows a static cost that is rather useless in flow economy, instead you want to know the cost of everything in seconds based on buildtime and buildpower. If you want to pump 20 pawns per minute you want to know how much build power you'll need assisting the factory and how much p/second it'll drain in metal and energy, the total cost of 20 pawns isn't that useful, and the game can't even do that, it'll only give you the total cost of 1 unit (and no build cost, unless you deliberately look for it).

If you can't do the asessment in your head with that info you're just retarded my man, simply not very smart, simply stunted, and overthinking because you underthink in average

Get a grip and try again

>>2071947
Regular RTS economy does not have any of the problems you describe.

>>2072671
It would though. The problem would be that one of the resources to build a unit is hidden. 2071947's complaint could easily be resolved if the build energy cost was simply shown without having to pull a specific menu. Being able to set construction priority on individual units and buildings instead of the constructors would also be nice.

>>2069465
you are correct and they will never admit it

why does unit x cost y metal and z energy? well, some guy at cavedog put in some placeholder values 30 years ago and...

>>2072763
No he's not.

>>2068490
it really isn't once you figure out a build order to start and then start what you want to pull off in the game but it all depends on how the match is going and thinking what to do in parallel to something else or reacting to coming threats, just like any of these "TA-likes": Supcom, Plantarey annihilation, Zero- K. etc.

The economy is piss easy in this game to manage holy shit you guys
>Shitbot costs 140 metal and 1500 energy
>Hmm how much do I have in reserve? Oh wait there it says, I have 1243/2500 metal and 4000/8000 energy. I can spend on this
>oH BuT TEh HIddEn COsTs

What hidden costs WHAT HIDDEN COSTS YOU STUPID MOTHER FUCKER its says RIGHT THERE you gain 60 Metal and 300 energy per sec and you're spending 200 metal and 6000 energy per sec, cause you're building a metal dildo that is not what you need, draining the bars faster than they can pump and actual finished product. You're choking your own production and not on your dildo by starting projects everywhere. You're overproducing without the necessary income. It's not hard to grasp. METER GETS DEPLETED WHEN YOU ASK FOR SOMETHING. That's it, that's the whole idea. You don't need a spread sheet but a spread cheeks on your life.

>>2072671
Because UI was traditionally designed for it, duh. How is one economy type superior only because devs can't design proper UI for other types of economy. If your economy is based on total costs then all you have to do is show the costs, and usually the build time is a static number as well, so you can either just show the time to finish building or make some animation. You'd have to work hard to find a way to fuck up the UI for basic economy like this, but saying it's superior just because it's easy to make the UI is just peak lazydev.
>>2072737
>2071947's complaint could easily be resolved if the build energy cost was simply shown without having to pull a specific menu
It wouldn't, people still would not know what the fuck to do if buildcost was shown to them. If the buildcost was shown, you'd still have to think about the number of pawns you want in a set time so you can know how much it'll drain per second and how much build power you'll need. People mostly do everything by feel based on both income numbers and somehow think they're geniuses for figuring it out when it's just the obvious thing to do when the game doesn't give you good information.

AoE/SC2 economy
>I would like to purchase a dude pls
>That would be 50, in advance, since it's a commission
>Alright good sir here ya go
>Ok then, ETA 20 secs... building done, here's your dude.
>What If I want to buy 5 dudes in advance?
>That would be 250 fiddles in advance my lord, no credit cards
>Ok here ya go-no wait I needed pikemen oh shit cancel that commision oh- the fuck the barrack is gone, where's my money?
>What money?

TA/BAR/SupCom Flow Economy
>I would like to build a bot, please
>Ok, it's gonna cost 500 metal and 1000 energy in total, it's already 3D printing and draining your storages, Commander
>Ok, my metal income is 100 per sec and my energy varies but I think i'll manage if I start several projects of these at the same time
>Just don't go overboard in spending, maintain a balance in expenses, Commander or you coud get into an economic depression and- yep, there it is, you asked for the most expensive unit with little income and buildpower. Now your projects are trying to finish at the same time and none will finish this century. We're on a chokehold, and you must cancel something or the grid is gonna collaps- yep there it is, no power for laser turrets, well done commander.

C&C economy
>I would like to place a building
>Ok, preparing building...
>I would also like to purchase anoth-
>CANNOT COMPLY, BUILDING IN PROGRESS
>Ok fine jeez, just do it quick. Wait, why did you stop?
>No tiberium in the coffer, wait until the Harvester comes and dumps it; Oh there it is BUILDING... BUILDING READY: place your building commander
>Ok now I want to build th-
>PLACE YOUR BUILDING, COMMANDER
>OK FINE, I DID
>CONSTRUCTION COMPLETE
>Can I build another thing?
>Yes now
>Ok, now i want this
>BUILDING...

>me wants 10 stouts in 2 minutes
>that requires around 240 build power and will drain -22 metal per second and -195 energy per second, my good sir
>wow that's pretty simple

>team mate doing his planning using the total cost
>starts stalling everything
>hm I guess I have to get more energy?? no, the problem is metal... actually I think I just have to build something else instead

>>2073176
>-22 metal per second and -195 energy per second
acshually -18 and -167 for 2 minutes, the first previous numbers were for 280 build power which would be 1 factory and 2 veh cons

>>2073089
It has been nearly 30 years. The devs making streaming resource games have had enough time to come up with a UI that works for it. They couldn't. Why do you think that is?
Are all TA fans just idiots?
Or maybe the system itself is bad and you should fall to your knees and pray to Starcraft, the GOD OF RTS

>>2073212
>Why do you think that is?
>Are all TA fans just idiots?
Probably because Chris Taylor isn't making RTS anymore and if the papa isn't here to make new design decisions then everyone gets stuck because they only know how to copy what papa did. Also, I don't think he was good at UI.
>Starcraft, the GOD OF RTS
>Gookclick where you have to fight the UI to do anything not just eco
Into the trash it goes
Totally annihilated, even

Who the fuck decided to putt attack-move on F?

Why the fuck don't rez bots repair or rez without being babysat? Even Brood War Medics could.

>>2073269
I'm pretty sure rezbots will repair, rez and reclaim all as needed on fight order

>>2073270
Medics will heal with no orders. Rez bots can't fight either, why can't they perform their *only* function by default when rallied to the front line? Just to make the game harder than BW?

>>2073272
I mean, you should be rallying your factories on a fight order anyway, you know you can do that right? It's not just a rally point, you can queue up orders on a factory as if it were a unit and it will apply to all things produced from it. That's also how you add fighters to a patrol route without them idling on a ground somewhere.

>>2073280
Is fight order the same as alt+F? I thought fight was F. What do rez bots even do on F?

>>2073284
is that a new fight keybind? I remember fight worked for repair and reclaim but they had removed the auto reclaim. it would only work if you put it to fight on repeat and then then movestate would set the range it could walk

>>2073292
It seems they do their job on F so the website was trying to mislead me, alright. Still annoying that once they go idle they will never do anything without a command again

>>2073284
>>2073292
I don't remember the alt distinction, maybe I misremembered and I wasn't doing it this way or something changed and I didn't notice. Anyway this is what docs says now assuming it's up to date. It makes sense I think, it's probably better to have reclaim-only by default than than have your rezbots rez bunch of random selection of enemy units you have to do something with.

>>2073308
>once they go idle they will never do anything without a command again
you put it on repeat bro

>>2073315
The factory is on repeat but units coming out of it are not, and I don't see a way to change that

Also:
>pressing F with T1 bot lab selected rallies with fight order
>pressing F with T2 bot lab selected doesn't issue fight order
>clicking the button like an animal with T2 bot lab selected DOES rally with fight order
conclusion: nobody has tried pressing F on a T2 bot lab in this game's lifespan

>>2073321
are you using grid keys? just don't care much about factory commands lol they're a pain in the ass and the devs don't fix it

pretty sure there's a widget that lets you set different commands for each type of unit, so you could set only rez bots to come out with a fight command once and more or less forget about it
also you don't want shit coming out of your factory to be on repeat by default, I think there's another widget called state prefs that will do it per unit type so you only set rez bots to repeat

>>2073324
Yeah it was grid keys, while cortex doesn't have a unit on F armada does and that means there's a conflict so fight doesn't work. I think I prefer legacy to having 4 different build menus anyway

>>2073028
>1,243 metal in reserve
You would lose in a multiplayer game in that situation. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and I don't think you have ever played the game. Build energy is the relatively hidden cost. It's not shown in the costs, and it effects how quickly supplying build power would drain metal and energy, or how quickly you can build something with a limited set of constructors and thus how many constructors you actually need concentrated.

>>2073308
Give the rez bots a patrol order instead. Set them to maneuver or roam so they seek out tasks further. Patrol orders are just fight orders on repeat, so it's easier than setting them to repeat.

>>2073394
pressing shift+P is some brood war pylon hotkey level hand destroyer

>>2073434
my patrol is on T and my index is on F while playing BAR

>>2073434
Patrol is defaulted to H, not P.

>>2073446
on grid, which makes t2 factories unable to press F and more importantly splits the build menu into tabs which I dislike

>>2073457
>splits the build menu into tabs which I dislike
why? while using grid the tabs don't really matter, you'll always be using the hotkeys

>>2062517
Opensource projects are notoriously filled with trannies.

>>2073389
No, it's not a hidden cost, the unit cost is there, it's not hidden
You mean the drain from the building turrets? they do use a lot of energy as well to speed things up, but it's more than manageable and you can see how much you're getting drained in real time, it's the number at the top

>>2073308
Place them on "Repeat", for instance, click repeat, then R (Reclaim) or repair and drag a circle. They will reclaim or repair everything on that area forever

>>2073872
The build energy cost is not shown on the construction panels you retard. Read carefully.

>>2073872
this is the level of dunning kruger
nigga already thinks he unlocked the game in his head when he doesn't even know that everything has a cost of time to build on top of the metal and energy cost

I know about flanking, are there any other hidden damage bonuses/resistances in the game or does everything do 100% to each other (assuming direct hits)?

>>2074072
From the top of my head thinking about stuff that influences damage other than flanking it would be
>lasers deal less damage with distance
>all plasma has aoe even if very small
>height influences range of ballistics
>lightning weapons chain to other enemies (it's not insane though)
>flame weapons deal damage through targets (I think)

>>2074043
This nerd think he needs to know that cost to play
Nerdgga can't play if the game isn't pre solved by somebody else
Gigadweeb making the most efficient buildtime on his base while he gets swarmed by ticks and cries
>If only I knew build power costs power and build time and stuff

>>2074072
Units receive flank bonus damage
IIRC hitting a unit from the back and another one from the front activates a bonus damage from all sources
Some units like the Legion Phalanx have a shield that must be blown up to start receiving damage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpIdHYcVUlM

Thoughts on 84 player matches?

>>2074780
the replay ran at 18fps on streamer's NASA pc
Imagine the torture it must've been to play that game

>>2074658
>just play the game without knowing when anything finishes building
nice bait

>>2074780
Think they're doing 200 players this weekend

>>2075524
We've tried 50v50v50 earlier today and the mere existence of the lobby, not even the game starting, crashed the servers, multiple times.

today I will get widgets to play the game for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-xgEshBpVU

>>2076051
>starcraft players

I got smart con turrets, smart builders, auto-kiting units and automated rez bots. Now I can almost beat inactive AI

>>2076103
Congrats, you turned it into Zero-K

I keep losing as legion and don't know what to do
Everytime I reach T3 I don't know what to build, everything seems lackluster to me but the Sol Invictus or the Pretorians, but feel meh and get my shit pushed in
Cortex are easier for me because it's pure brute force. Catapults fuck shit up, Demons fuck shit up, Juggs are the dedicated fuck shit up and an even more specialized line collapser that is a Behemoth. Armada have the Thor spam but it's kinda ok as well as Atlas, and the meme Marauder raids, but Cortex seems like it has a dedicated game ender for each scenario.

Legion has Astraeus that are nice but nowhere as threatening, the anti swarm tank, the railgun tank that seems underwhelming and other raiders and such.

>>2076607
He would need a widget that makes his units auto suicide into the enemy to make it Zero-K.

>>2076695
Setting your units to anything but hold position already has that effect

>>2076633
Make keres, they fight good into t2. The 7k mech and 8k tank both suck so don't bother. The cheap bot is just a marauder wannabe so make those if you want a raid but they suck in straight up fights. Astraeus are fine, but are just an LRPCs that move slowly. Sols are good but bugged still I think. Haven't tried the new hover it seems fine. The new myrmidon is fun for all terrain stuff but I wouldn't make more then 5 in a game since they lose to any t3 faster then them.

The best way I've found to end stalemate games as legion is to build a group of tyrannus, they are mostly better dragons that attack from longer range and have fuck huge health for an air unit. Just watch out for fighter swarms. Also the lolcannon for legion the starfall is way stronger then the rag or calamity and will end the game in like 3 volleys if you can build it.

>>2077424
>Also the lolcannon for legion the starfall is way stronger then the rag or calamity and will end the game in like 3 volleys if you can build it.
This is true, Starfall is busted, and it's funny to think that Calamity should already be a busted game ender

Starfall has less range tho. But no shield can withstand so much punishment in a single volley.

>>2077572
Pretty sure it's the same range, but bigger aoe so effectively higher.

>>2072671
yeah, instead you'll have the problem of tapping the build units key, getting a "sorry sire, not enough glup shitto juice" from the game, and having to wait for that one fucking worker to get up off his ass and deliver it to the central econony hub while the opponent is already in your base killing your dudes. I'd rather take flow economy instead, at least here I can queue my units and forget about managing the buildings and focus on unit control.

>>2068307
who said I'd need to hold EVERYTHING? who said I need T2 to win?
I only need more than what they have

I'm not too fond of how TA-style games are designed around units that take way too long to be made unless there's a horde of builder units speeding up the factories. I like how in Total Annihilation: Kingdoms and Rusted Warfare you can't do that at all.

>>2079907
You use Con Turrets for that, those are the "scaling" of your base. The more the better

>>2080162
Even with 50 turrets the big boys take like a minute to come out, and it's kinda hard to fit that many. Not to mention providing enough juice. And then they take 10 minutes to cross the map.

>>2080172
Well that's the game

>>2080172
Build the gantry at the frontlines.

>>2074093
>I know about flanking, are there any other hidden damage bonuses/resistances in the game or does everything do 100%
The game uses damage formulas. So there's some modifiers in the background with certain units doing things such as +dmg to commanders -dmg to subs.
Flanking damage is determined by the direction the unit was first hit from, not the direction it is facing.
A single fast moving units such as aircraft can trigger flanking damage by strafing the target.
Buildings can be flanked...
Some units/buildings deal extra damage when they are manually detonated vs. detonated by weapons fire, and some have extra range (double!) when manually detonated. They also don't leave a wreckage.
Laser units deal 50% damage at max range and drops off to 0.
Lightning damage hits adjacent targets but the amount of damage (and amount of units hit) varies by unit.

>>2080306
>just split your buildpower in half bro

>>2080478
Turn off your other factory then. Build your other factories near the gantry too then reclaim your old base.

>>2080550
Should I put my afus on the frontline too?

>>2080552
You should stop building afuses and instead build units. You struggling to fit enough build turrets around your gantry is a sign of that.

I haven't played rts for 20 years. Just downloaded the game and I can see why the genre is dead. The amount of multitasking is overwhelming.

>>2080635
noob

>>2080638
I was a Star Craft player before you were born.

>>2080646
not a very good one I imagine

>>2080635
Set your factories to repeat production, and set a rally point to the frontlines. Boom, no more chores, only strategy remains.

>>2080651
>play vs AI
>it has 1000apm and instant reaction time and micros each individual unit to hit your econ from behind
>scouts kill a mex in 5 seconds for some reason
I thought it would teach me to play the game
It taught me to put a laser turret on each mex instead

>>2080646
Not an RTS.

>>2080661
I read that you're supposed to self-destruct the extractor when it approaches. Apparently it deals exactly enough explosive damage to knock out that scout. Yeah, I'd say the multitasking seems rather hectic.

>>2080706
That's an option, but don't listen to anyone telling you to only build units. High level 1v1s make extensive use of LLTs, which force your opponent to commit more units or different types of units if they want to damage your eco.

>>2080661
>not having units scouting about everywhere with the built in hotkeys and macros for ez-bake large army management
buddy you just need to learn how to fight the opponent instead of fighting the game. At least you learned how static defences work.
Also playing vs AI is not a tutorial, no matter what anyone says.

>>2080797
chasing 150+ speed scouts around IS fighting the opponent and on open maps it's going to be a pain in the ass no matter what

Why isn't this on Steam? Seems foolish to not ride the "RTS revival" wave right now. Player numbers would go through the roof.

>>2080980
It's not ready
https://www.beyondallreason.info/development/steam-release

>>2080980
Because the devs are autistic and want more features like an actual tutorial and story campaign before they consider publishing onto steam.

>>2080980
Legion isn't done, matchmaking isn't done, no campaign.

>>2080635
thats a fair critique from a noob.
in fact actually this rts has lots of automation options but you have to get used with the control scheme thats more complex than most games, aoe2 for example require more apm for normal play

>people would rather play this watered down slop than supcom FAF
At least people are playing TA spinoffs again but at what cost

>>2081879
supcom needs a new client
BAR can handle 50v50 games with 18k units on the map without shitting itself too hard

>>2081879
Yeah this >>2081883
I tried playing FAF and it runs like shit, you have to pray it doesn't crash and don't you dare get any stupid ideas like tabbing out while waiting in lobby unless you like playing your games in a window because borderless hasn't been invented yet.
The culmination of years of open source tranny-autism means I can launch BAR is stupid resolutions or on a toaster and it just werks and looks fine.
Also hot take, SupCom look hasn't aged all that well either and you can feel the graininess and I actually like the simple blocky style of BAR.

>>2050505 (OP)
As a new player my experience has been disappointing.
Install game:
>Install fails because it can't extract from the files it downloaded
>Try it again, It works
I can live with this

Game boots:
>Immediate Pop-up notification about "Lightbringer" makes me think of mobileslop
>Select "do not remind me"
>Immediately asks me to register and log in if I want to play online (I don't) - I wonder if this applies to LAN
>No option to "do not remind me"
Annoying but livable

>Cursor position doesn't align with buttons
Not a problem, 9/10 times it's a windowed/fullscreen issue
>Go to settings and the only option is for windowed/fullscreen and setting resolution
Well, that's a disappointing set of 'settings'.

Go to start a skirmish as no tutorial mission/scenario:
>"You need to download this map"
>Option to view maps that came with the game/installed is not the default
>Mess around with a few settings (of which there are many)

>Start a game
>Loading screen tells me I don't have enough RAM (I have 8 instead of the recommended 12/16) and I should change my settings
What settings!
>Double check settings in game
>Graphical options are only present once in game
>You need to restart the game for changes to take effect
sigh.jpg

>Restart the game
>Mobileslop pop-up comes up, even though I'm sure I selected do not remind me
>Select "do not remind me again" - again
>Asks me to register and log in if I want to play online (I don't)
>I can see this is going to continue to be an issue
>Skirmish settings have all reset to default (you have to create a profile for your custom settings)
>Map selection defaults to the new/downloadable (this is the default with no way to change) with the default/installed maps at the bottom of a very long list

I haven't even played a game and I'm already frustrated by the UI. The only thing that has impressed me is the voice over telling me to build metal extractors, which gives me hope there's some semblance of a tutorial.

>>2082830
I think you should wait until it's released on steam.
https://www.beyondallreason.info/development/steam-release

>>2081879
It hurts to say it but lets be real for a moment and admit SupCom's game engine has been its biggest hindrance since it first came out and it only got worse as time went on. BAR has an updated engine and that alone allows it to perform better than SupCom FAF just because its more stable. Regardless what you feel about BAR's gameplay feeling worse or inferior to FAF the truth of the matter is that no one wants to play on an engine that can shit itself if you try doing a 8 player match with 1000 units cap each.

>>2081879
explain to me how BAR is "watered down slop"

>>2083240
Yeah, BAR is really a direct descendant of TA. Not sure where it's supposed to be "watered down"

It's not so much that BAR is watered down more like SupCom pushed TA to 11 with full tier 3, cooler experimentals and stuff

>>2083136
>BAR's gameplay feeling worse or inferior to FAF the truth of the matter is that no one wants to play on an engine that can shit itself if you try doing a 8 player match with 1000 units cap each.
And the fact that BAR actually feels better to play, and anything else is cope

I mean SupCom and TA are different already, but SupCom is more about looking at blips from full screen and spamming. The micro is non existant and the unit variations as well.

I'm waiting for Sanctuary Shattered Sun, but in the meantime, SupCom people comparing themselves are into a dick measuring contest and they're losing.

>>2083136
>no one wants to play on an engine that can shit itself if you try doing a 8 player match with 1000 units cap each.
The AOE2 playerbase would disagree with you. You can state the merits of the game engine, but the quality of a game is not measured by its engine.

>>2082830
>And the fact that BAR actually feels better to play, and anything else is cope
You're an idiot, I could point out many reasons why this statement is retarded, but if you could understand why, you wouldn't have said it to begin with.

bar more like gay

>>2083240
how about you ask reddit instead bitch faggot just your question has more onions in it than a japanese lunch

FAF is dead. The entire playerbase moved on to BAR

>>2083882
Someone got banned and is holding a grudge, I see.

>>2083902
i don't even play the game, i just know a faggot when i see one

>>2083833
>The AOE2 playerbase would disagree with you
Yes that's why the entire playerbase is playing the CD version from 1999 and not the remake... oh wait, DE made the game more popular than ever and onyl the most diehard brazilian poorfags play voobly

>>2083919
stop looking at a mirror, you emotionally unstable loser

>>2073467
BAR Discord: full of trannies
FAF Discord: few trannies
Zero-K Discord: only some leftists - maybe I should give this game another chance, even though it's ugly

>>2084143
from what I've heard, Zero-Gay 'cord is probably worse than BAR, they were banning players for calling others noob

Arguing about which discord is better is like asking which log of shit tastes better. Can you please stop eating shit?

>>2084170
It's not about the Discords but about which community project has the least amount of troon devs ruining it.

>>2084173
BAR devs are transvestite child molesters (jews)

I should know, I was on the dev team until I got banned for not wanting to rape and molest children, whilst stealing Spring and Balanced Annihilation.

the PR that killed BAR

>FAF website links to this guy's videos
no trannies here

>>2080830
>chasing 150+ speed scouts around IS fighting the opponent
As a newfag to bar could someone explain to me how the AI being able to micromanage and skirt every single unit perfectly at the edge of weapons range is considered balanced (even on the easy difficulties)? One of Bars brags is the ai doesn't cheat but it performs in a way that isn't humanly possible.

Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with skirting weapon ranges but the level of precison isn't humanly possible. The crazy thing is a simple *fix* would be to add a minimum distance to movement nodes.

The ai also has the ability tell every individual unit on the map to move in order to dodge weapons fire, a feat not humanly possible.

What's really crazy is Bar has a globalAi doing this for the enemy team which highlights how unnatural the AI behaves. Zero-K does this on a unit level which allows for the players units to follow the same behaviour patterns making it seem far more natural.

Captcha: K0BAR!

>>2084290
how? seems reasonable to me

>>2084347
Pooling resources (called coop or commie) is the only viable strategy in teams (big or small) and ruins every game one team uses it and the other does not. In tournaments every single team does it. If you're new the optimal strategy is to leave the game asap so the best player can take your stuff. If you're good and have noobs on your team the optimal strategy is to bully them into leaving and taking their stuff. God complex dev team doesn't play the game and pretends the problem does not exist. It took them half a year to address the proposed fix only to shitcan it and introduce no solution whatsoever instead.

>>2084347
sharing troops made me drop the game

>>2084290
devs are gods

>playing team games but without team interaction
just play 1v1s bro
it's also funny how the two major maps have very rigid meta that will get you kickbanned from the lobby if you aren't following, so while the players want to quickly change core features of the game to be against coop meta, they also want to heavily enforce other meta. and don't come with the >rotato cope because coop is not an issue there and I'm talking about the majority of the 8v8 players complaining about coop

>>2084455
>build 3 mex 2 solars
>donates everything to red/blue
>calls self a team player
great game bud

>>2084455
Coop is not a glitters or 8v8 thing. It's the optimal strategy in all teamgames on all maps. The recent faction wars was 3v3 but always 1 lab vs 1 lab
Glitters aka same thing every game sure does suck too but I have no idea how to fix that, any ideas?

>>2084275
>stealing
Someone's retarded.

>>2084333
>One of Bars brags is the ai doesn't cheat but it performs in a way that isn't humanly possible.
Man like, if you're playing against an AI and behaves like an AI you can't complain. Play against a person to see the enemy do stupid shit.

>>2084556
the ai's +1000apm has been a common complaint for several years now. this is compounded by hard being the default ai.

>>2084573
I think it's a good thing because it teaches you how to proactively fight leaks and how to pin in properly microed scouts, pawns, and grunts. Where it goes wrong is that it makes bad calls on retreats.

>>2084573
>the ai's +1000apm has been a common complaint for several years now. this is c
Just play against a human, anon, you can overcome your anxiety.

>>2084573
Imagine wasting manpower in an AI that emulates a person when online multiplayer exists for 30 years

>>2083882
no, you stupid negroid dumbfuck, you made a statement that makes no sense, because if BAR is watered down slop then so is SupCom
so I am asking why do you think BAR is worse than SC

>>2084465
>any ideas?
yeah, don't play trash like 8v8 on the same three maps over and over again

>>2084690
>Optimizes the AI for maximum apm
Meanwhile, the clunky UI forces the player to continuously waste actions.

>>2084705
>clunky UI
If you're a retard maybe.

>>2084706
>Create a queue of construction buildings with T1 builder and commander
>T1 builder moves and builds
>Commande ignores the order because, even though it can contribute to the construction, the buildings aren't a part of its list
>Requires you to issue a second set of orders to the commander once construction has began
Sure seems clunky to me, but I'm sure you'll claim it's intended behaviour.

>>2084717
you can give a repair order with an area of effect (holding Alt if i rememb er correctly) covering the construction area and the comjmander will help build everything automatically.

maybe the game needs a tutorial because it has lots of cool but obscure options available

>>2084717
Tell the commander to guard the builder unit before you queue their buildings up.

>>2084717
>>2084758
Also just right clicking a builder with another one will make it follow and assist in building everything the first one does. You can say task a bunch of butlers or whatever on your builder and queue as much shit as you want

>>2084695
90% of BAR players are mobabs. Glitters (and some raptors) is all you see on the server list

>>2084758
>>2084765
>>2084767
As a newbie, thankyou for these solutions. It still doesn't take away that you have to issue additonal commands in the face of the AI's high apm but it helps.

>>2084814
I don't really remember how hard the AI is, I don't think I played much against it but BAR is not really that APM demanding and playerbase is not sweating all that hard either.
I can have fun matches against fellow 20os shitters and game tells me my average APM was in like 40s.

>>2084814
BAR has the second best UI in the genre, it just has a slight learning curve if you've never played TA or SupCom. Only Zero-K has a real claim on being better and that's literally the same engine.

Did they implement color choice in singleplayer skirmish?

>>2084916
No, and you can't change your name either.

>>2084831
I looked up some footage, and did they finally change the build menu? Is the big retarded box finally gone?
A year or two ago, going from Zero-K to THAT was the most jarring shit.

>>2085248
They switched to grid default.

>>2084290
what a load of complete nonsense, everything he says simply boils down to "i don't wanna"

>>2084383 presents actual reasoning instead of that fucking hogwash

>>2084694
wasn't even me who said that you absolute retard, i just couldn't stand the estrogen-reeking faggotry that came off your bitch post

>>2085256
>They switched to grid default.
And they make an attempt to keep unit positions consistent between factions.
And they also haven't they made any attempt to order the grids in a logical way.

>>2085293
>order the grids in a logical way
i think the logic is practicality, easiest keypresses are buildings that are made more often,

>>2083240
Smaller scale, cartoony aesthetic, simpler economy, navy gameplay in particular is a huge letdown in bar. I've played setons on bar and its so much worse. In supcom it's pretty normal to have hundreds of ships in the ponds fighting and in bar you're lucky if its a couple dozen ships

>>2085835
>Smaller scale
It's literally TA's.
>cartoony aesthetic
No that's Zero-K.
>simpler economy
It's literally TA's with more consistent metal spots, with solar collectors not costing energy, and more options in the mid and late game. It's less simple than the game it evolved out of.
>navy gameplay in particular
It's literally TA's.

TA is not watered down SupCom, it's a different game with a different scale. BAR didn't water down SupCom, it grew out of a different game.

>>2085950
Check out the cope on this guy,..

>>2086051
Where's the cope? You never played TA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfpaFcMvqfE

>>2086323
>Map is effectively a straight line with no cover or places to outmaneuver opponents
>Teams with the lighter arm(oured) more maneuverable units loses to the team with the heavier direct engagement units
>surprised.png
And yes, I did watch the match, the only reasons the dragons got in there was because the ground fronts were already being pushed.

>>2086752
Starlights and sniperbots mog Tzars arm noobs just didn't commie hard enough

>>2086758
>noobs just didn't commie hard enough
>100 players
>all the noobs stacked together
seems fair

>>2086788
high os players also dislike commie so not all of them will do it in a casual lobby
then a tzar rolls up 4 minutes in and blows up all their t1

>>2085835
>Smaller scale
How is that "watered down slop"?
>cartoony aesthetic
How is that "watered down slop"?
>simpler economy
Not even a toddler could drown in water as deep as putting storage and gens around some buildings for a bonus.
Or explain what else you mean by simpler eco in BAR than SC.
>navy gameplay
>In supcom it's pretty normal to have hundreds of ships in the ponds fighting and in bar you're lucky if its a couple dozen ships
Point one once more, smaller scale?

>>2085290
> i just couldn't stand the estrogen-reeking faggotry that came off your bitch post
the actual bitchboy couldn't stand seeing the scary words
kys

>>2087016
You really are full of cope.
It's actually quite impressive.

>>2087109
There's no cope. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, at all. You're calling a game watered down slop for not being the same as a game that came out months after Balanced Annihilation did. Do I need to explain to you why that is retarded?

>>2087143
>There's no cope. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, at all. You're calling a game watered down slop
Dude. You're seething so hard you can't recognize there's multiple people calling you out.

>>2087151
Have you played TA or not?

>>2087155
I wouldn't have found your levels of cope so amusing had I not.

>>2080661
>>2084333
90% of the apm the AI spends is just moving units across the map instead of using a single action to move them far away. It doesn't actually have a godlike reaction speed due to its extremely inefficient usage of apm. Spectate a game and highlight the AI's units to see what it's actually spending its apm on.

>>2087220
You can't do player camera for AI because it doesn't use a camera

>>2087230
You don't need to do player camera. Just highlight all the units and you can see their move orders.

>>2087247
Maybe it isn't instant instant but it walked its scouts under LLTs like 15 times without losing a single one, always retreating after the first shot. This is why I stopped trying to chase it and made those LLTs on every mex in the first place AI does that too and now I know real 1v1 players do the same
And it's clearly spamming like mad, but also microing like a nerd all across the map

>>2087151
>multiple people calling you out.
there were three replies to the initial post >>2083240
one agreeing
one just trolling and mocking the question
one actually giving an answer which I asked to clarify further >>2087016

are you really this fucking bored to keep shitposting on a smaller board like /vst/ in a shitty small thread like BAR's? get a grip, you retard

>>2087389
>are you really this fucking bored to keep shitposting on a smaller board like /vst/
What can I say. You keep taking the bait...

>>2087477

>>2059251
Zoomers didn't play SupCom you tasteless faggot.

>>2087491
most of millenials didnt too, i liked rts in the early 2000s and mostly played aoe2 ron starcraft and thats it.
i appreciate bar for being a modern take on classic rts but its not like it was a lost classic, TA is an obscure 90s game. THATS WHY ITS COOL

>>2087491
>SupCom
who played that?? it was released in 2007, rts were already established by the time with starcraft as king and aoe2 for the notalgic thirdies.

i appreciate it if you developed it

>>2087389
Dude you need to calm your sperging.
BAR is watered down slop compared to TA/SupCom. That's the inevitability of all 'spirtual successors', they copy a successful game and remove the soul inevitably in favour of an "upgraded engine" hoping to draw the same fans, and 9 out of 10 times they fail. BAR is no exception. Where they really dropped the ball, and they're not the only ones to do this, is the focused so hard on balancing multiplayer they blanched the whole thing.

BAR is a soulless and bland rip-off. You can't change that fact. They even went hard in ripping off other franchises.

>>2087611
>uses SOVL as an argument
opinion discarded

>>2087611
Here is your (You) for trying so hard.

>>2087618
>Attempts to ridicule for mentioning SOVL
>Game uses SOVL as a development point

>Upgrade GUI to have a more character/design BAR soul
>https://www.beyondallreason.info/development/steam-release

>>2087611
>NEW BAD
>OLD GOOD

>>2087746
>Copying everything - Bad
>Having original ideas - Good

>>2087611
>BAR is watered down slop compared to TA/SupCom.
BAR is much more complex than SupCom by a lot just inthe micro

>>2087877
Lots of complexity but it doesn't add much depth to it.

>>2088027
BAR favors aggression. SupCom is too lethargic.

>>2087611
BAR isn't a spiritual successor to TA, it's Balanced Annihilation with the serial numbers filed off, and the core problem with TA is and always has been balance. Stop posting retarded shit.

>>2088069
>BAR isn't a spiritual successor to TA,
Yes it is.

>Most people interested in BAR are familiar with games inspired by Total Annihilation (TA) and its spiritual successors
>We are very happy that our game strikes the same note for you as these. BAR is descended from a popular mod of Cavedog's Total Annihilation and the goal was always to continue its magnificent legacy.
>https://www.beyondallreason.info/news/tips-for-supreme-commander-total-planetary-annihilation-players-to-quickly-grasp-bar-gameplay

>>2088069
>BAR isn't a spiritual successor to TA
I don't know how many levels of delusion someone would have to be to say this
Stick to paradox threads, brownoid schizo.

>>2088201
No it's not. You don't know what the fuck those words mean, apparently.

>>2088229
You can ignore/change the meaning of words all you like but, just like how you will always be a biological man, BAR will always be a spiritual successor.

it's insane how shit this board is, pretty much /v/ tier

>>2088696
there were decent discussions in this bread but theres a retard comparing it with another game, probably speaking with himself

>>2088964
or a bot, anyway i enjoyed the economic discusion

>>2088969
>>2088964
Shit flinging is the lowest kind of discussion you can have on the boards, but keep threads alive

Anyways BAR is great. The QoL that it has is great and I would like other games to have so much love like this one does, and to emulate how easy it is to control units. So snappy and exciting. Eco gameplay is fine, maybe some things could be adjusted.

>win a couple games
>cera'thine barcode

>>2089536
>The QoL that it has is great and I would like other games to have so much love like this one does, and to emulate how easy it is to control units. So snappy and exciting.
It's a well acknowledged issue that the the ui is janked and that unit control suffers as a result. The only reason it gets a pass from the community is because the devs have openly acknowledged this and have it on their roadmap to fix.

So there is no single player content yet, right? I know there is a horde mode but there is still no lore and scripted missions, right?

>>2089998
There are some fairly basic scripted missions ie
>skirmish on a super wide and narrow metal map BUT enemy starts with 4 behemoths slowly walking towards you
>typical micro mission where you get a couple units and commander/builder
>regular skirmish vs 3 hard AIs get fucked kid

>>2089998
The original TA had hardly any lore or scripting. And since this is a multiplayer game first, I doubt they'll be doing anything beyond the bare minimum.

>>2062517
Honestly, I don't care that much since I don't use chat anymore. Everything is over moderated, there is nobody interesting to talk to, people moved on to their discord circlejerks, there is AI jannies and bots monitoring everything you type ect.
It's an internet wide issue, not exclusive to this game. It will need to be addressed at one point, even if that will just lead to even further sanitization of the internet and everybody moving to some dark web sites or services. We're already seeing that in action, with the (kiwi) farms already attracting the same crowd that 4chan used to have from all over while this site withers away like reddit circa 2009, people forget it wasn't always an echochamber circlejerk but became one over time.
>>2090005
I mean, Supreme Commander kind of had something going for it. You're not going to write books about it, but the factions and story are still memorable. It would be nice to have something, anything in the game and not having to go to their fucking website for crumb of info on what's going on within the game.

>>2089961
[citation needed]

>>2090006
Speaking of books worth of lore, get a load of Zero-K. The campaign is totally lame and the lore is delivered in form of these long diary entries about the historical background of a galaxy abandoned millennia ago. I'd rather not have the BAR team go with that approach.

>>2090021
I agree, nobody really needs that, but a simple campaign showing why faction A is going to war with faction B would be appreciated. I think Total Annihilation: Kingdoms did something like this perfectly, there is a short story in the manual and when you fire up the game, all you need to know is that there is two factions that are bastards and two factions that aren't, now they're at war with one another. There, conflict set up, rest can be done organically thru missions.

>>2090007
It's right there on their steam-development page:
>Re-design UI
>Improve unfinished/unpolished UI parts
>Upgrade GUI to have a more character/design BAR Sovl
There's more details in the devlogs/discord if you want to dig.

Honest question
People that ask for a campaign, what are you actually asking for?
Cinematics? a scroll of text? conquest map? what?

>>2090265
The Communist Manifesto in video game form

>>2090265
Depends on the person really, me personally i'd like a simple campaign about the history behind these factions and a "choose your ending" kind of thing where the faction you choose at the start is the one that wins the war
Kinda like base SupCom's endings being different depending on what faction you play as

Newbie here.
Why is every map practically painted with metal spots? It forces the game towards map-painting/econ and reduces the focus on combat/contesting ground.

Is it just bad map design or is it a cheap-way to force the AI to build defenses away from and attack areas that are not main bases? Maybe there's some other reason I'm missing.

>>2092110
To encourage expanding and fighting for map control. What exactly would you be fighting over in a no metal dead zone?

>>2092254
>What exactly would you be fighting over in a no metal dead zone?
The maps as they stand are so littered with metal it removes the incentive to contest points. If the points were used more sparingly you could have actual conflicts over the metal spots. With the current trend of "spam them everywhere" if an enemy has acquired one there's little incentive to push when there's another 5 nearby.

It's probably a more fundamental problem with BAR that extends outwards towards map making. The game is, at its foremost, an economy sim. It's a /vst/ cookie-clicker where the battle in building your economy faster than your opponent is more important than building an army to actually fight them.

>>2092308
The incentive is reducing the enemy's income.

>>2092308
Are you playing 1v1 on a map meant for 16 players? There are some reasonable maps in the game.

>>2092330
Been playing mostly 2v2 or 4v4. Last map I played attached - which for reason I can only deem as deliberately annoying doesn't show the metal points on the map selection screen in game - had to use the websites images to show them).

>>2092346
Doesn't take a genius to figure out it's built for 5v5, any less and you'll have a bunch of extra metal to take. Even then, mexes are way more efficient than scaling with converters so if you just give up the entire middle you'll get rolled (maybe not vs AI)

>>2092308
>It's a /vst/ cookie-clicker where the battle in building your economy faster than your opponent is more important than building an army to actually fight them.
see also: aoe2

>>2090265
Just transplant the best scenarios from the original TA and you're good. I replayed them many times before but the poor pathing, among other things, make the game feel dated. I hoped someone would patch that.

>>2092110
>>2092308
Mexes are placed around so people that have more control of the map will have a better economy. You don't suicide your army over a mex, or almost anything really. You win the war of attrition and try to get the enemy to collapse, in which case getting the mexes behind won't be too hard after their army is gone.

>>2092308
If you feel like you get too much metal from mexes than maybe you are playing on too big maps, but either way it's the mexes you fight to keep control of. You can't outscale someone with energy converters and relying on that is more of a backline thing in teamgames.
Also control matters for reclaim. If you counterattack after a push that's recovering most of the metal of both yours and enemy units that died. This is why it's still important to take good fights. Throwing away units is not just wating your resources but also giving some of it to the enemy.

>>2076079
wtf, is that a white dildo?

I love these lil niggas. Does anyone else build blocks of them?

>>2093945
Well that's the whole game my bro
You need to spam those to build AFUs in a timely manner

>>2087611
BAR is "Free/Open Source" Total Annihilation that has a ton of QoL improvements. It is much more balance then retail Total Annihilation.
It filters spammers and base-builders hard.

I was lvl17
Started playing Legion
Dropped to 10 and can't get up

I keep losing one way or another. I don't think i'm doing something particularly wrong but I don't find the balance to push strongly like I do with Cortex

>>2094007
as soon as you spawn build 3 mexes, 5 solars and give base + comm to red/blue. easy 30os

>>2094007
>>2094063
make sure to chronicle your afk battery journey and post it in the appropriate Discord channel

Why is this game so good bros?

>>2092330
isb't that xel'nigger caverns?

>>2094812
yeah

Is there a logical order to build tabs I'm not seeing or is it just another case of UI-Jank?

>>2095391
There are two UIs which is Legacy and Grid
I think Grid is the default for new people and it is organized in "categories" of sorts

I play with Legacy and everything is just there but it's how I already got used to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaXGlBqIx6Y&ab_channel=SuperKitowiec2>>2095391

Very good beginner's guide

>>2095721
it doesn't tell you to give base to op player so it's bad

>>2095749
Aren't you the op player?
seems like a (you) issue

>>2095767
it doesn't tell you to beg poops to give you base so it's bad

>>2095749
what is this meme? i don't get it
wont the one player everyone gives their everything to be overwhelmed by all the things? APM is a resource and in a team game you have more than one players' worth of APM so you ought to use it.

>>2095721
Did he have to be so polish?

>>2095929
>what is this meme? i don't get it
Sadly not a meme, it's considered a legitimate way to play BAR.
Weak players are encouraged to build their initial resource producers then give them to better team mates who are stronger. This allows the stronger player to produce units faster and push out to gain map control. By pushing out into the map they reduce the chances those undefended bases will be attacked.
What's more is the game encourages this behavior in ranked matches, if your team won, regardless of your individual contribution, you all rank up. There was a mutiny on the discord a while back because it's common to see low-level players team up with high-level players solely for this purpose then do the usual shit flinging and rank bragging. Several proposals were put forward by the community but the dev team have been pretty adamant that they weren't prepared to adjust the rank system to account for individual contributions and that sharing resources shouldn't come with a tax.

>>2096131
Just ban them. Moderation issue.

>>2096137
Devs are fully aware and don't see it as an issue, hard to ban someone when that's their stance.

>>2096142
Devs are not moderators.

>>2096131
that sucks, guess i'll stick to 1v1 and FFA for now

>>2095721
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_-HpbqAnGE

i prefer this guy because he speaks fluent english

>>2096131
I don't really see that. Highest rated players usually take the tech and air roles and weaker ones are pushed to the front but it's still bad manners to feed red/blue and expect him to win you the match.
At most it's expected to pay for the T2 con or trade wind to air for a transport.
The only pure boosting I see is on isthmus where frontline is close and narrow so the coastline player builds wind for the fronts before going for whatever else they were going to do.

>>2096131
If they don't like to play with less experienced players than they should stick to 1v1.
Team matches are for players with social skills.

>>2096131
Lobby issue, you can raise or lower the level requirements
IE never happened lmao

>>2087269
You seem to be playing red against AI. How? When I tried all I could play as was blue.

>>2097239
He's watching a replay from AI perspective. You can see Twardowsky (AI) bottom left

>>2097239
>2025
>Unable to change team colors
Sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy_xebtAfr4&ab_channel=SuperKitowiec

This game is so deceptively complex and indepth

>>2100662
It's not so complex as it is convoluted. Even in that video the very first thing he tells you to do is enable options so you can actually see whats going on. Hiding basic things such as unit costs adds unnecessary complexity.

>>2100975
Yeah the widget bloat is completely out of control and yet it feels necessary

>>2100975
>Hiding basic things such as unit costs adds unnecessary complexity
They are right there on the unit portrait.

>>2101041
Never ever used a widget