Let's discuss the best Total War game of all time: Medieval II Total War
Released nearly 20 years ago M2TW continues to set the gold standard for real time tactical battles and strategy games.
While providing a complete experience in the base game and supplemented by 4 expansion campaigns the game truly shines because of the numerous high quality mods developed by the community in the years since release.
This thread provides an opportunity for the enjoyers of this magnificent achievement in strategy gaming to discuss their favorite aspects, favorite mods, share tips, tricks, comments, complaints, or simply post AARs for their current campaign

Some of my favorite mods:

>Stainless Steel
A truly vanilla+ experience. Highly recommenced for an improved medieval experience without changing the underlying gameplay too much
https://www.moddb.com/mods/stainless-steel/

>Divide and Conquer
Very high quality Lord of the Rings mod. An expansion of the original Third Age Mod DaC adds bugfixes, new units, new factions, and more detailed and impactful scripts
https://www.moddb.com/mods/divide-and-conquer/

>Europa Barbarorum 2
A very detailed, in depth, and historically accurate depiction of the ancient world beginning in the late 3rd century BC and featuring the wars of the Diadochi, The Punic Wars, and the fall of Pyrrus.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/europa-barbarorum-2

>Tsardoms
Focusing on the Balkan region this extremely detailed and high quality mod depicts the end of the medieval period and the beginning of the renaissance era with two seperate start dates, one in the 14th and another in the 15th century showcasing the rise of the Ottoman Empire, the fall of Constantinople, the start of the Italian Wars, and more.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/tsardoms-total-war


>Insularis Draco
A very focused and detailed mod which focuses on the fall of the roman empire and start of the dark ages in North Western Europe
https://www.moddb.com/mods/insularis-draco

Honorable Mentions

>Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project (SSHIP)
An expansion of the original Stainless Steel SSHIP tries to "EB2" the base mod making it more complicated, slower, in depth, and more accurate. Faction names, units, and buildings are renamed into the correct localized language. A new map and more period accurate music is added and a number of scripts create a more difficult and immersive experience
https://www.moddb.com/mods/sship

>Broken Crescent
Focusing on the Middle East from Constantinople to India depicts the rise of the Mongols and the failure of the Crusades. Buff and Shine provides bugfixes for the original.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/buff-and-shine-broken-crescent-22

>JLMP Vanilla Kingdoms
A very simple mod that just adds factions and mechanics from the Kingdoms expasion to the base game
https://www.moddb.com/mods/jlmps-vanilla-kingdoms-2022

>Roar of Conquest
A continuation of Stainless Steel which tries to provide bugfixes, balance, and new units
https://www.moddb.com/mods/roar-of-conquest

>Bulat Steel
A continuation of Stainless Steel which tries to provide bugfixes, balance, and new units. This one adds navigable rivers
https://www.moddb.com/mods/bulat-steel

There are many more mods that I'm just not very familiar with but that's where you can post and tell us all about them!

What's your favorite mod, anon?

Best mod if I want to spam nobles as Scotland?

Nearly all of that on BOTET, really its the game that made me realise i'm an autist.

While my friends were playing fifa i studied the blade and install guides in a language i couldn't understand at a time when i barely knew how to turn my computer on

I enjoyed playing Broken Crescent 16 years ago, apart from the Crusades and the ERE it's a rarely touched era from a western perspective.
THERA was great also, just fun slop with slightly fantasized nations duking it out with their enemies. I liked being able to start off with pike and shot as the German and Spaniard factions. Some autist made an updated version that added more nonsense to it, pretty fun.
I'm waiting for Sillmarillion TW mod to update with a working campaign.

>Powys converts to Orthodox Christianity on turn 2
>somehow ends up going to war with continental Romans
>continental Romans somehow end up smack dab in the middle of Britannia
Beats the Foederati and Goidels and Picts, I guess.

>>2067517 (OP)
any other mod that implements similar diplomacy like tsardoms?

>>2067656
>16-year old uncle falls in love with his 16-year old niece
>council DEMANDS that I marry them

>>2067679
love is love, bigot

Divide and Conquer is very hard.
Ered Luin is supposed to be the tutorial faction but I'm pretty sure I'm about to lose the campaign.
I think I needed to be more aggressive in the beginning. I also think I chose the wrong buildings as I just realized I'd been building shit like pipe halls instead of mines.
I already took this castle, Barketta, around 10 turns ago but I occupied instead of exterminated so it revolted and that's when Angmar first showed up.
They sent an army north so I had to pull up there to counter and now I'm finally back to Barketta but I see they're pulling up two big armies.
If I lose I don't have any more armies. I can recruit some sure but the recruit time is like 10 turns for each unit and I don't seem to have any mercenaries available either.
Very hard and not looking good desu

>SSHIP
I really want to love it, and it still does characters, education and prepping your heir better than any other mod I've played, but it's just unstable, and the diplomacy is obstinate compared to the rest of it. I love the expenses, the units, all the painful and hardcore elements, but when my enemy who is at war with its other 3 neighbours and has had multiple stacks wiped by me will steadfastly refuse any notion of peace because of my 'reputation' (as though sacking and executing prisoners isn't wholly necessary 90% of the time) then I just get frustrated and play another mod

trying to control units in sieges while on defense makes me want to kill myself

>>2067813
You don't really need to control units. Siege defenses are completey brainless. With the slightest bit of experience you can instantly tell where the AI will send their siege towers and ladders to so place sword units there. During battle deployment put your ranged unit on the opposite halves of those walls and put the rest of your troops behind the gate. Then you set the speed to maximum and you go do something else for 10 minutes. When your back you can see the heroic victory screen in front of you.

>>2067781
I respect SSHIP but I find it too slow paced. I love how in vanilla you have have the progression from early mailed knights to gunpowder units.

>>2067517 (OP)
Still waiting for DaC v6

anyone ever play the zelda mod? I remember the twili and darknuts being cool.

>>2067733
You need to pull your best cheeses to win in Divide and Conquer.
Yeah, not for the faint of heart.

>>2067935
impressive ngl
I'm gonna keep going forward with my current campaign but if I end up crashing out I might just lower the campaign difficulty (like a bitch)

>>2067900
It's going to be a while. V6 is going to implement the EOP which means they have to re-write all the scripts. They're also overhauling Dale (and maybe other factions as well)
Maybe christmas time at the earliest but probably not until next year desu

>>2067974
>V6 is going to implement the EOP
Are they? I thought they were not going to in this version. And only DaC EUR is inplementing EOP.

>>2067997
Yes, you can see it was one of the first things they decided for V6 in the changelog
https://github.com/Divide-and-Conquer-Beta/dac-documentation/blob/main/V6-Changelog.md
There is a beta version in existence (youtubers have access) but the actual release is quite a ways away

>>2067883
technically that progression exists in SSHIP too but yeah it takes a lifetime to actually get there
I usually finish my campaigns before gunpowder anyways even in base SS. If I want gunpowder these days I play Tsardoms

>>2068075
>If I want gunpowder these days I play Tsardoms
Amazing mod too, but I prefer playing on full Europe-MENA campaign maps

How come a good ASOIAF mod never got off the ground?

>>2068424
Because the tv serie become lackluster in terms of plot and characters.

>>2068954
yeah no one cares about that franchise anymore

>>2068424
the books weren't popular enough when Medieval 2 was new and no one can be fucked to figure out how to plug an all new map into Attila

>>2069113
The LOTRO nerds seem to have figured it out
https://youtu.be/EIZ_zEacw7c?t=308

>>2067517 (OP)
>best Total War game of all time
very debatable

>cant dismount cavalry
>shitty pathfinding in sieges
>campaign AI is dumb
>2h unit bug
>1 turn is 2 years but characters age 6 months

It did however lead to release of planetwar so it gets a pass.

>>2069249
This has to be bait.

>>2069318
Not him but none of what he said is untrue. Med 2 actually had a fairly bad rep for being very buggy and removing stuff from RTW back then, it’s since had a massive reputation boost thanks to a combination of medieval games becoming very popular and later total war games being far worse by comparison.

>>2069432
name one tw game with not cancer inducing sieges or competent campaign AI

>>2069249
Old total war is genuine unplayable garbage

>>2069249
Only real problem here is the dismount cavalry, wich I have never ever used in modern Total Wars.
Rest of this problems still happen nowadays.

>>2069439
3K's campaign AI is pretty competent

>>2069626
Shogun 1 and Medieval 1 had pretty great campaign AI, because it was limited movement-wise.

>>2069639
They were also the best TW games, but the community isn't ready for that conversation

>>2069483
2h unit bug is exclusively a med 2 problem

>>2067733
Never heard of Ered Luin being a turorial faction. In fact have always found them one of the most difficult because even if it's a 3v1 your allies are completely useless and Angmar is a spammy faction while you have very few troops.
I found Rohan, Lothlorien, Dale and even the Ar-Adûnai to be the easiest ones. Specially Rohan.

>>2069759
It's constantly called the tutorial nation on the d*scord
I actually defeated those two armies in detail but right after Angmar sent another 2 stacks at me and I decided it didn't feel fun and gave up.
I was just gonna wait for the Tsardoms update to drop and then go play that for a while but I'll think about giving one of the other factions you recommended a shot.
I usually don't like cavalry nations because they're OP in M2 but Lothlorien sounds fun. Ar-Adunai are cool too but I'm saving them for when I feel like I actually know how to play lol. As for Dale they're the faction getting the big overhaul for V6 so I'm gonna pass on them (I know V6 probably wont drop for another year but I'm not in a hurry)
I'm also not sure D&C is for me. Seems like the mod was designed for the best of the best total war players who have 1,000 hours on M2 and know all the exploits and how the engine works down to the minute detail. I've got almost 500 hours and while I can beat SS on VH pretty easily I get overwhelmed by D&C pretty quick lol. Not the battles of course but the campaign side of things. I like to go slow, turtle, field a few large armies and play methodically while roleplaying and chilling. D&C seems to encourage if not require you to be extremely aggressive and know exactly which buildings to build and which order to build them in. Also maybe I've just been using the wrong faction because d*scord trannies told me that it was the tutorial faction when I should have been playing Lothlorien instead idk

I really like the Bellum Crucis mod
less casual than Stainless Steel but not hardcore

>>2067733
just edit the scripts so the AI doesn't get 20 diffrent armies at the start
the modders looked at the army spam in TWWH and thought "hmm yes this is excatly what Medieval 2 needs despite it's recruitment system being anti-spam"

>>2069639
Shogun 2 is ok BUT

>height doesn't affect archer distance - a feature we had since shogun 1 removed because mpfags cried about hill campers and warscape wasn't made with arcing missiles in mind.
>unit models aren't updated according to upgrades
>a lot of recycled unit animations: tetsubos are used as nodachi, FOTS saber units use them as katanas
>retreating units often form an orderly queue
>Japanese VO isn't correct (bai no haya sade)
>dueling units - applicable to samurai but not ashigaru

It did however do a lot of things right.

>avatar and multiplayer campaign
>oozes atmosphere of Japan from unit cards and sea shanties to general speeches, agent videos and campaign map done in the style of Jap ink art
>ability to reduce unit abilities micro and have them set on auto
>Jeff Van Dyck
>sieges aren't totally gay and done right

>>2070046
Guns and artillery were great in shogun 2. Not blatantly OP but extremely good if used right. Also if you want to be pedantic you should mention pikes being exclusive to Oda and all samurai armies.

>>2070009
>Seems like the mod was designed for the best of the best total war players who have 1,000 hours on M2 and know all the exploits and how the engine works down to the minute detail.
No idea what you are talking about.
I bought Medieval II like a decade ago and I got straight into DaC after 50-ish turns in vanilla. Even back then didn't look that difficult to me.

>>2067517 (OP)
>the best
I don't care how much people tell me "it's Total War, not Total Suck Each Other Off", the fact the game presents itself as if playing tall is an option and then doesn't really let you due to glitches and oversights makes it mid at best. I guess it's the best game ever if you only ever play super wide and never even think about upgrading your cities beyond what's needed for better units.

>>2070371
anon, it's a game called TOTAL WAR not Sim City 1069
If you want a city builder go play one
If you want an empire builder go play one
If you want TOTAL WAR then you play Total War

>>2070372
Building up the cities, castles and family trees were the best part of Medieval Total War and it is even more fun with the mods that add stuff like court positions as traits and traits for being a holder of the certain city or castle.

>>2070391
All of that is present in Medieval 2 Total War I have no idea what point you're trying to make

>>2069113
Attila is shitty warscapeslop though and Medieval 2 still got mod support well after release.

>>2070289
Admittedly, I never played FOTS or recruited artillety in the original so I wouldn't know.
> Also if you want to be pedantic you should mention pikes being exclusive to Oda and all samurai armies.
I mean thats game balance I suppose, you already have shit like Ronins and Katana ashigaru being exclusive to Ikko Ikki so I was fine with it like with dismounted feudal knights or dismounted chivalric knights being unavailable to England but existing for every other catholic faction.

>>2070892
>game balance
That and the longer yari spears were one of Oda Nobunaga's army's standout traits, together with superior use of firearms.

>>2070892
You should give it a try sometimes. I'm not going to talk about FOTS further than saying it's an experience and that it has the best gunplay mechanics in the series. Also fuck you TW for never finishing Empire.
Shogun 2 artillery is very inaccurate and usually limited in firing arcs, mobility or ammo but goddamn is it not fun to rout two stacks of all katana shimizu with spear peasants who's only purpose is to slow down the enemy long enough for your grenades and mangonels to pick them apart. Hojo highly recommended for this.
Otomo early mostly gun armies are a blast as well. Quite literally.

>dismounted chivalric knights being unavailable to England but existing for every other catholic faction
How would that make sense? First if you can get the nigger on a horse and there is a feature for him to dismount why would only some factions be limited in pressing that dismount button? Also didn't english actually dismount their knights and held the line with infantry in agincourt and crecy?

Rome 1 was better desu.

>>2070371
I love TW but I agree. The game cannot simulate small states, you HAVE to paint the map. And the games' limitations prevent modders' best efforts. Would be kino just to simply keep a few highly developed cities in your core and then capture small key coast locations to have a trading empire, but no TW game can do this.

>>2070371
With allies' territories counting for your victory conditions you can play tall, but it's not the case in M2TW

>>2071177
If you want games that simulate administrative affairs go play GSG. Even thought most of them also incentivice map painting.

>>2067517 (OP)
I wish there was /htw/ thread again, but ok...
Stainless steel is basically just basic game at this point for me.
DaC and original LotR mods are good too.
>>2070033
Yeah, I would also remove it, fuck that noise. Also, my favorite way to play it was on a hotseat mode where I would just control all the factions. UI would sometimes bork out, but whatever. I wish newer total war games had hotseat modes...
>>2067934
amazes me that there is zelda mod for this even
>>2068424
CK2 fits it better

>>2071117
England has English Knights, mounted and dismounted, and Armoured Swordsmen. But not having the means to dismounted really is quite silly since we had this feature in MTW1 lol

>>2067517 (OP)
Playing the Insularis Draco mod right now and it is fucking great.
Top tier, I havent even conquered anything asides from just playing tall in my territory and establishing trade routes and I am swimming in cash, The ripurian franks declared war against me out of nowhere right after my first king died, his third son and only biological child took command of a stack and a half and ambushed two of the ripurian stacks, one was just commanded by a generic captain but the second had the heir of the ripurians in it and two other generals utterly massacred them, now advacing into the ripurian territories and my spies have caught one huge stack led by their king and the next town that I am going to besiege has their new heir in it with half a stack.
Absolute kino honestly.
The combat is brutal as you will take casualties due to missiles like javelins being powerful as fuck, and the combat lets you do maneuvers since the units defence stats are high af so combat is slower and armies dont break down as quick. Last battle against the heir I basically just battered down their shieldwall with missiles from a ton of warband I recruited and then charged them and did a long hand to hand engagement while my two generals ran around the side and flanked the wings with their bodyguards.

>>2071253
Fuck CK2, I'm not playing microsoft excel with a GUI I want a VIDEO GAME about BATTLES.

>>2071974
Every videogame is technically a spreadsheet with a GUI.

>>2072147
Paradrone games are boring and effeminate

>>2071681
That mod seems very interesting and high quality but I always get overwhelmed when I try it.
Recently started as the Dumnonia and couldn't figure out which buildings to build and once I had deleted all my Nobles and consolidated an army to attack in the east I realized I had 2 more cities across the channel to worry about and then got attacked by Irish raiders the next turn too.
If you don't mind my asking which faction are you playing and what building chains did you prioritize? I too like to build up tall and only attack from a place of overwhelming strength.

>>2071219
I don't like GSGs. It wouldn't take much to make the TW campaign map just a little deeper without going into pie chart simulator territory.

>>2072380
IDK man I really feel like Crusader Kings is bassically just a Total War campaign with a little deeper gameplay. If you need the real time battles there's even a mod for that lol.
I can understand the other paradox games being "pie chart simulator territory" but crusader kings is a very straight forward strategy game

>>2072199
What about now, nigger?

>>2072380
There are some mods for TW that make the campaign a little more complicated, but understand that what you are looking for is not available in the TW franchise.
Try Knights of Honor II: Sovereign. It's maybe something you'd be interested in.

>>2072746
Paradrone games are boring and effeminate

>>2072404
CK2 has you make up bullshit reasons for invading a place instead of just "because I feel like it". It's womanish court politics shit where you roleplay as a family, not a nation.

>>2071253
the massive overhaul submod is underrated
the baron samedi submod also has a cool feature where you could sacrifice gandalf the grey to wipe the balrog off the map without have to fight it and he will respawn as gandalf the white

>>2072380
Try Hegemony series

>>2073016
Family and mafia like politics is medieval.

>>2072749
>>2072404
>>2073043
>understand that what you are looking for is not available in the TW franchise.
I've been playing since RTW came out, that's why I made the post. I just wish they'd make their campaign map concept a little deeper.

>>2073076
So is killing people because you feel like it

>>2073016
>where you roleplay as a family, not a nation.
Anon, what the fuck do you think medieval Europe was like?
It was all just an intricate network of smaller and bigger mafias, gangs and the occasional clean street in the form of a walled town with its own laws, taxes, army and privileges.

King is not a fucking president or prime minister. The king is a godfather you kiss the hand of if you're worthy enough to be his henchman.
If you want nations, as in people who speak a single language and share a culture within their own borders, consider everyone living within those borders to be one of theirs and have some sort of loyalty towards said land/flag/... go play post-Napoleonic games. Because none of that existed before then.
Whenever Napoleon defeated an army, the stragglers were given some rations and asked if they didn't want to join the Grand Armee, the pay's good and the adventure grand. No PoWs and such shit.
But you most certainly can't even fathom the idea of Allied armies beating a Wehrmacht battlegroup, giving them a few cigs, some burgers and asking the SS officers if they don't want to sign up for a contract with the British/US Army and ravage the rest of Germany for adventure.

>>2073240
Revisionist cope. Tribalism is nationalism by another name, and it absolutely existed in the medieval period, especially the early medieval period, alongside kings running things like their personal estates.

That aside, realism doesn't necessarily equal fun. There was random dysentery everywhere in medieval armies, but it wouldn't be any fun to have your stacks randomly wiped out by shitting RNG.

>>2068424
dead franchise because fatman doesn't write his book and the show appealed too much to normies and then crashed and burned

>>2073240
Your post wins the interwebz kind stranger ^__^

>>2073240
>But you most certainly can't even fathom the idea of Allied armies beating a Wehrmacht battlegroup, giving them a few cigs, some burgers and asking the SS officers if they don't want to sign up for a contract with the British/US Army and ravage the rest of Germany for adventure.
That is how SS actually get plenty of their eastern recruits

>>2073495
Yeah, but the trick is these eastern recruits were being aimed at someone else. Non-Russians given free reign to fuck up Russians.
That's a bit different from taking a willing soldier of a nation and turning him against said nation.

>>2073495
Yeah, about 6k exwhites under primakov and mostly from yugoslavia. So shut the fuck up.

>>2073277
>Feudalism is tribalism
Holy pop history, dude

>>2073240
How dare you ruin summertard larp with something as dumb as facts?

>>2073277
Retard, fuedalism was early late stage capitalism.

>>2073662
Yeah medieval politics were like Harry Potter, the Habsburgs were Slytherins and Napoleon was Harry Potter.

>>2073277
>Revisionist cope
well it's good that you knew what your post was gonna be

>>2073240
Loyalty to the flag existed even before the romans standardized warfare lmao.

>>2073753
Pretty hard to be loyal to a national flag if you consider that Rome never had a flag, innit?

>But muh legions had standards they held onto.
Of course. But they didn't necessarily even have to be flags and what was on them was completely up to the legion. If I, Julius Biggus Diccus wanted to have Rei as the flag of our Legion, I could and the boys would protect it with their lives.
That's clearly not the sort of loyalty to a standardised, internationally recognised and deeply symbolic flag that anon was talking about.

>>2069318
no he is right, i aint gonna touch medieval 2 until theres a remaster at least

>>2073806
What's funny is that if rome had a flag it wouldn't be the legion standard or anything we think of as "symbolic of rome." It'd be vague furry art of romulus and remus suckling a wolf mommy.

>>2073660
>>2073721
Read the post again you ESL faggots. I said tribalism was another form of governance that existed alongside feudalism. The same way some greek states were oligarchies and some were democracies.

I think this entire conversation started because anon claimed it's not fun having to create a causus belli to declare war on another faction instead of just "because I feel like it" correct?
>>2073016
If so none of this conversation is relevant. I think he's just here to derail the thread and stir up trouble because if he actually wanted a TW campaign with deeper, more historical mechanics (like idk Causus Bellis and internal politics) he would enjoy Crusader Kings (and with the Ck3 / Atilla mod you can literally play Crusader Kings with real time battles)
If he (or she) finds Crusader Kings simply too complex then you can settle for one of the overhaul mods to Medieval 2 like Stainless Steel which adds a very small amount of complexity and historical depth with things like titular ancillaries and supply costs for armies in foreign lands and more costs for sieges.
It's totally irrelevant whether feudalism was an autocratic government where the King could unilaterally wage wars for whatever reason and the people under him would actually fight and die by the thousands (it wasn't btw)
Let's keep the focus on Total War, primarily the best of the best Medieval 2 total war, and ignore off topic rage bait.
If anyone is super interested in this topic maybe we can create a thread on /his/

>>2067517 (OP)
I like Thera Legacy of The Great Torment mod because of setting, many continents, isles and the opportunity to make bloody campaigns and naval invasions with lot of big battles.
>>2067934
I did. Very fun mod. I liked Gunpowder faction and that Church of Majora one who always was big baddie Empire who control half of map and fight everyone.

>>2072746
>playing actual MS Paint
Ooof

>>2067934
I thought this mod was a mess and the creator abandoned it to make a similar mod for another game.

>>2073277
>dude the concept of nations absolutely existed before the treaty of westphalia because... because it just did ok?!

>>2073277
No, anon, you don't understand. Nations only existed after [whatever year/event the lastest trendy commie historian says]. As you might understand, you and your ancestors did not have any kind of attachment to your native land.
So shut the fuck up, chud, and let 3000000 more of them brown people into your country.
Africa and America did have real countries btw so those natives are entitled to their land :)

>>2072276
I was playing Frisia, I just used my beginning troops to just steam roll as many of the rebel forts nearby and then stole a couple rebel regions from the franks nearby, I went into debt at first but as my expensive men started dying my expenses lowered and my conquests got me enough income to get me back to no debt, I also established diplomatic ties with all my neighbours and traded with them all so loads of money from that. With that money I just focused on the ports and on the farming building and then I focused on the religious buildings and then at the end I started to focus more on the military ones. I was playing as a germanic culture so I had access to the Warband unit and from my experience that unit costs like 300 to recruit and 300 to upkeep and has good enough stats to serve as the back bone of your military while you keep some Ulfhednar and Svein religious units to do the flanking and the hit and runs. The warband units are all equipped with strong missiles too so they just mow down the front line of the enemy before contact. In battles focus more on the missile attack since the melee portion gives you less deaths, you want to just fuck them up with missiles. Missiles are your best friend, also use your general units just for flanking maneuvers. Cav is still good on the mod too just not frontal attacks. All units have OP levels of defense stats so dont attempt melee, prolong the missile phase as much as possible and don't be afraid of losing troops here and there.

>>2073240
This is bullshit, yeah feudalism was kinda mafia like but that is because every organization with a hierarchy is mafia like. Fuck your local walmart can be argued to be mafia like because of the hierarchy of the managers and employees.
Anyway, nations existed and people were tribalistic based on their ethnic lines, the Normans had to commit a genocide in england to get them to accept foreign overlordship. The anglo saxon knew they were a different people from the Welsh, from the scots, from teh cornish, from the irish, from the cumbri, from the frankish, from the britons.
The Norman also knew he was a different ethnicity and nation than the Frank or the Saxon or the Norwegian or the Dane, or the Frisian.

NATIONS HAVE EXISTED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEAR AND PEOPLE HAVE DIVIDED THEMSELVES AND THEIR KINGOMDS BASED ON THOSE NATIONS AND ETHNICITIES FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

If you want I can go to the bronze age to prove to you that nations and ethnicities have always existed and have discriminated against eachother since time immemorial.
Discrimination isnt wrong it is a moral right and is normal human behaviour, you discriminate based on age, relation, money, status everyday why should discrimination based on ethnicity be any different.
Only reason you think its wrong is because the current neoliberal world order needs more consumers and if they discriminate against anybody those people wont consume as much and this is the worst thing that can happen in a neoliberal world.

>>2074805
To expand upon the point of nations always existing.
ALFRED THE GREAT DIDNT CALL HIMSELF JUST KING OF WESSEX, HE CALLED HIMSELF KING OF THE ANGLECYNN OF THE ENGLISH.

SO YOU TRANNY FAGGOTS CAN NOW GET IT THROUGH YOU LOW IQ SKULLS THAT NATIONS ALWAYS EXISTED AND WILL ALWAYS EXIST.

If nations didnt exist, why did Charlemagne have to genocide all the saxon leadership and discriminated against them specifically based on their ethnicity, if nations didnt exist then how come jews were seen as nation everywhere they fucking went, why did the HRE nobility discriminate against Ottokar the 2nd and not support him to be emperor because he was a powerful bohemian king ie a czech king and not a german or german related ethnicity, and the majority german nobility of the HRE were afraid that a strong non german emperor would have severe consequences on the german nobility.
Keep in mind these are just the ones off the top of my mind if I wanted to I could go into detail about how Byzantine emperors could usurped because they were non greek or married non greeks. I could even go into the genocide the byzantine committed against the latin venetians which was a ethnic cleansing based on ethnicity, ETC ETC ETC.
FUCK YOUR NEOLIBERAL REVISIONISM.

>>2074809
Anon, do you think race or ethnicity is equal to the modern day concept of a nation state?
No one is disputing the idea that races or tribes existed for thousands of years. The contention is the idea of the nation state existing in pre-modern age.
The political entities which you erroneously believe to be modeled after our own were in fact nothing more than collections of lands held as literal personal property of a lord. These lords in turn would pledge allegiance to a mafia boss who would give "protection"
When, for example, William de Normandy defeated Harold Godwinson in 1066 he siezed by force the personal holdings of Harold and the "purge" you're imagining was a series of wars wherein William forced the various lords of the British Isles to submit to his authority.
There is no English national identity involved. Likewise there is no French national identity involved when later English kings would come to hold lordship over vast swaths of "French" territory.
There was an English race, sure. It was gradually mixed with the Norman one to produce the modern English race. But there was no nation of England. There was a Mafia Boss AKA King who held lands on the island and demanded tribute from various other lords on (and off) the island of Britain.

>>2074816
A nation can exist without a state that is super normal, and nation state as in ethnostates like you and the other trannies in this retarded debate seem to suggest never actually existed as a nation states weren;t pure monoethnic.
>the "purge" you're imagining was a series of wars wherein William forced the various lords of the British Isles to submit to his authority.
The harrying of the north was a genocide look at pic rel for better view of how this was an actual genocide and ethnic cleansing campaign and not just a power succession. Compared to the anglosaxon power squabbles things like this did not occur between themselves.
> But there was no nation of England.
YES THERE WAS AS EARLY AS KING ALFRED THE GREAT WHO REFERED TO THE ANGLECYNN, which is the english.
The normans didnt mix they took over and the class system even to the modern day reflects that with the upper class english largely deriving their ethnicity from normans.
>There was a Mafia Boss
You can say that about any organized structure, you can say that about your local school, your government, your municipality, your local charity, your local church etc and etc.
The reason the mafia was so different and made them the mafia was exactly because of the organization. Any organized endeavour can be called a mafia by your definition.
>The political entities which you erroneously believe to be modeled after our own were in fact nothing more than collections of lands held as literal personal property of a lord.
Majority of whom considered each other part of a nation if they were of the same ethnicity, there is a reason why all chronicles make note of a nobles origins, now there were plenty of nobles who lived under a king with a different ethnicity due to military and other economic reasons but does not mean they saw themselves as part of that kings nation but just his kingdom.
Lots of nations were divided between kingdoms, ie the english were divided under the heptarchy but they all were english

How the fuck do you play shogun 1?
I got it and med1 for under five bucks and now I'm just puzzled

>>2074831
Same way you play a map game with figurines irl, just click and drag them across the map, in the battle part of the game, I suggest you play some custom battles to get used to the controls and thats it really.
You build improvements in your provinces and some are better than others and give you better income.

>>2073812
this guy is the only guy qualified to be a romeaboo

>>2067517 (OP)
Why the fuck is the mobile version pretty much better/more optimized than the PC version, i'd hate to lick the boots of CA but i really wouldnt mind if they remastered PC and added a bit of workshop support. But knowing them they'd overprice the shit out of it.

>>2074904
>i'd hate to lick the boots of CA
If you bought the mobile port, you already are

>>2074827
>nation state as in ethnostates like you and the other trannies in this retarded debate seem to suggest never actually existed
>nation state as in ethnostates
Retard debate, indeed.

>>2074816
>do you think race or ethnicity is equal to the modern day concept of a nation state?
NTA but yes in the most literal sense most historic states were nation states. Nation literally means shared blood, the word is from the same root as natal.

The nation state as in civic """nationalism""", national anthems, flags, passports, etc is modern. But that's just a veneer to usurp what is a primordial instinct.

>>2074816
The 100 years war started as a civil war/dynastic feud between two french families. One of those dynasties got anglicized as the war went on until it became fully “english” (culturally at least) with Henry V.

>>2074904
Because it wasn't CA who did it, it was Feral

>>2074999
I didn't buy the mobile port dummy, i already have the game on pc

>>2071681
I'm really liking it so far, i'd say it's on the challenging side since the first thing on your mind is building economy buildings, but so far it's simeltaneously been challenging yet fair in a way.

I just beet like 3 Mumu assaults and now they're sending me a boat full of women this is great!

>>2074805
>>2073240
Charles Tilly once said the State/government was like the Mafia. It's actually the other way around, shit like the Sicilian mob seem to have formed as a sort of "alternative" to the actual government due to them not being able to keep the peace themselves.

Anyway that'a all i wanted to add to the convo.

I think Stainless Steel sucks.

>>2075461
That's certainly an opinion, and you are entitled to it.
Would you mind explaining why you don't like it and what you do like instead?

>>2075461
I still don't understand the point of the Logging Camp/Stonemason building lines. Other mods give more substantial cost and construction time reductions, but SS only gives 5% cost reduction? Besides that and some annoyances with faction rosters, I still think it's the best "Vanilla+" mod because everything else likes to shove in a gorillion scripts that somehow lead to 5 minute turn times.

>>2075804
I've never found a single mod with "5 minute turn times" desu and I've played all the big ones.
Do you mean like following the AI characters around takes 5 mins? Are you on a 10 year old cpu? What mods are you talking about I'll go test if you like but I just don't think that's a thing. You do have to turn off Follow AI Movement but I haven't played with that on for years

>>2075804
>I still don't understand the point of the Logging Camp/Stonemason building lines.
They are useless flavour buildings. Any road/port/farm/market/mine/law building upgrade is more profitable in terms of average extra income per turn.

>>2075789
I know SS is literally vainilla plus, but to me it still felt vanilla.
Probably because I'm used to stuff like DaC and EB II. It just felt meh.
I kinda want to play SSHIP but 20 turns for roads feels like a joke.

>>2076610
Well it's supposed to feel "vanilla" but if you're not a fan of the medieval period then yeah I could understand that feeling.
SSHIP is just not fun man like it's a cool idea to jerk off to I guess and maybe watching some youtuber jerk off to it seems fun but it's not balanced to be enjoyable as a game. I have no idea what the modders are doing or maybe its just I play the game the wrong way but it seems like they say "go slow" but if you try to turtle the AI still gets doom stacks and overruns you very easily and if you try to blitz you're suddenly losing 5K gold every turn and can' generate any more money because all the buildings take 20 turns.
Some other medieval mods have been mentioned in this thread, Bellum Crucis, Roar of Conquest, Broken Crescent (Eastern but same time period) but I find none of those to really be on the same level as SS and for that reason it's still my go to for medieval total war. It adds just enough to make the game feel "complete" without adding so much that the actual base gameplay (which I personally really enjoy) gets changed / ruined.
DaC is a great mod and probably the most extensive "best" of all time. EB2 is really really great too but I found it to be way too easy to be fun both times I tried to play it

>>2075461
you suck

>>2076717
Not an argument

>>2076720
I don't argue.

>>2076722

This was SS 6.4 with some elements of the Byg's Grim Reality tacked on. I took out stuff like the stupid random "Nobility Tax," because I wasn't convinced of the historical reality of that.

This took six years of my actual life. I started the campaign when I was a junior or sophmore in High School. I was a big edgy RadTrad Monarchist. Now I'm a Puritan Reformed Republic-Enjoyer. How time changes a man.

VH/VH difficulty of course. The stories this campaign told don't match hardly anything else I've ever done in Medieval II or any RTS of it's kind since. I was absolutely invested.

I lost the Steam profile and save files with it most likely when I went to prison. I can't get access to the old gmail it was under and wish I could. I'd love to go back, forestall the actual victory screen (it ended with the papacy hiding in Sardinia, lmao). Fully develop the provinces. Develop an organized military structure for each division of the Empire. Spend some time in the headspace again.

>>2069647
And it's a problem most mods have fixed. Nobody still playing the game is playing Vanilla or even the Kingdoms xpacs.

>>2077459
Very very impressive, Mein Kaisar

>>2069249
It really isn't. Mechanically for what Total War fans want Total War to be, it is in fact the best game in the franchise. Every other game since has been broken, cursed by shady developer decisions or so niche and unmoddable like Shogun 2 that it's never going to be as successful. Or they're gimmicky slop designed for streamers to make stupid challenge videos like every single Warhammer game.

>>2071126
Europa Barbarorum II gives me everything I want in Rome or Rome 2 with a better engine and a fidelity to historical accuracy no modern developer would have the balls to do because, "muh focus groups/but the chart says" ideology.

>>2071177
I had this exact issue playing as the US in E:TW and as the CSA in the Steam & Steel mod for M2.

I didn't want to really conquer the entirety of the Americas, and even if I did I wanted to stop there.

I'll dig out screenshots soon but Steam's system for it is ass and I haven't done the work to organize and name files, sue me.

Anyway; I actually sailed over to Europe a few times and joined some ways to reset the balance of power. It was some legendary stuff; I'll never forget an ambush battle Spain put on me in Southern France where we absolutely wheeled about and mogged them into a Heroic Victory.

I gave back all the territories to their proper owners but the AI is totally incompetent at organizing in that mod against existential threats like Russia or at managing public order. I had to go back 3 times before I finally gave up.

Next campaign in that mod is probably gonna be a British Empire World Domination run. I've actually already started and it's going alright. Too bad the Continental powers seem more intent on starting World War One in 1871 than expanding colonial dominions.

>>2077463
>And it's a problem most mods have fixed. Nobody still playing the game is playing Vanilla or even the Kingdoms xpacs.
except for me, because I'm too 'tarded to install mods that aren't on the steam workshop

>>2077505
>install mod
>extract mod using 7zip
>copy mod folder to your mod/ folder
>launch medieval 2 using
>%command% --features.mod=mods/YourModName
>???
>profit

>>2077464
If you think that's impressive you should check some of the victory screens and army comps.

>>2077459
>351 turns
This means you still haven't unlucked late units like muskets yet, right?

Do you prefer ye olde total war system of main factions and rebel territory or the newe systeme of everyone is a faction and consequently has a fuckhuge standing army between you and initial expansion?

>>2077580
I had just started to get certain arquebus units, yeah. That was another thing that really upset me. I had just started to get Landsknecht and the like. Most of the HRE's stuff just gets sexier the farther into High & Late you go. But the drip in the High era is still kino.

>>2077595
Mixed feelings.
I like that those small factions are more proactive, and also sometimes you can play them with mods.
But on the other hand, the fact that they all are proper (more or less) factions is probably why I will never have the old hotseat mode back...

Broken Crescent

>>2077906
Why do all the units use loose spacing it looks so ugly ugh

>>2077595
I liked Empire's version where you had real factions and truly unplayable minor factions. The minor ones were passive and wouldn't try to expand, but would put up a serious fight if you invaded. They weren't automatic enemies and made for good buffers as allies. However the Empire map didn't allow you to use them much since it was just a handful of massive empires blobbing the map.

>>2078021
Lots of mods for M2 have tried to do something like this with varying degrees of success. There's even engine reworks being experimented with.

The sheer capacity that Medieval 2's own engine really has just goes to show the transition to Warscape was completely unneeded. It was basically goyslop for Normie RTS/Grand Strategy fans.

I mean just look at this, it's a Warcraft Total War mod that's actually a better representation of the fluff of the factions and the world than almost anything ActiBlizzWhatever has made in a decade. AND it's actually playable. The mod isn't even done and has been an ongoing project for years.

Mark my words, one day they're gonna try to kill this game and make it unusable for mods with some needless update because they're gonna wanna force us to play their next corporate release that they WILL mess up. You have NO REASON to trust these people anymore. That's why I don't want Medieval III.

>>2078211
such a weird engine
capable of so much... but at the same time there's things like being hardcoded to 30 factions only

>>2078225
Exactly. One reason I'd love a M2 remaster is to get rid of the faction and unit limits.

>>2077467
EB II is so fucking good even if the first 50 turn are extremely slow.
But I think something similar could be done in the official TW franchise.

>>2078211
I'm that anon and yeah, I prefer Medieval 2 with mods. But Empire had a lot of good stuff despite not being that great overall. Some of its features were really great coming off RTW and M2TW like working diplomacy, better take on minor factions, and the "global" map. I even liked the naval battles, at least having the option to play them if you want.
Medieval 2 mods sure try their best, but they're held back massively by the engine, especially on the campaign map. The diplomacy is basically meaningless, there's no way to maintain an alliance even with perfect relations. Then there's pathfinding where AI can't use navies at all outside of rare circumstances (Britain getting invaded by Portugal), dozens of armies and agents get permanently stuck in some inexplicable bottleneck, or huge empires incapable of responding to your attacks since all their armies are all the way across the map (fighting some small shitter faction).
>Mark my words, one day they're gonna try to kill this game and make it unusable for mods with some needless update because they're gonna wanna force us to play their next corporate release that they WILL mess up.
I don't think this would be a big deal. It was distributed primarily on CD before coming onto steam years later, and many mod authors recommend against using the steam version anyway. I assume anyone still modding M2TW is using the CD version.

>>2078444
>I don't think this would be a big deal. It was distributed primarily on CD before coming onto steam years later, and many mod authors recommend against using the steam version anyway. I assume anyone still modding M2TW is using the CD version.
This is a genuinely insane take in the year 2025. Firstly most computers don't even have a CD drive. Secondly the steam version came out in 2008! Thirdly I have never heard a single mod author warn against using the steam version because, again, it's been the standard version for over 15 years and /literally/ 90% of the game's existence.
Seriously I don't think there are many people at all using a CD version today. Steam lists daily around 5,000 players which is roughly 2/3 the amount Rome 2 gets which feels about right. If you're imaging some massive block of CD only players then that would imply Medieval 2 was more popular than Rome 2 today which if you look at discussion on normie sites or lets plays you'll quickly see just isn't the case.
I notice your trips, but in this case they are not trips of truth

>>2078451
>Firstly most computers don't even have a CD drive
Torrent lol. I only got the steam version for convenience eventually.
> the steam version came out in 2008!
Which is years after the original and after the game was fully patched on CD. However, kingdoms didn't even get on steam until 2014, so the game spent 6 years being obsolete on steam. But what I meant is the CD version is the full, complete game, which makes it an easy transition for steam users. A simple download and install.
This is unlike Rome 2, for example, which never had patches that were not tied to online storefronts. Of course you can patch pirated versions of Rome 2, but it's a much bigger hassle unlike downloading Medieval 2 with everything you need.
>I have never heard a single mod author warn against using the steam version
Every mod cautions steam users with additional instructions due to Windows 10/11 permissions messing with mods. Checking for steam version is the 1st step of mod troubleshooting. But yes I overstated this greatly lol
>Seriously I don't think there are many people at all using a CD version today.
I don't think so either, I agree most players are on steam. But I would bet most modders use a pirated CD version since it's the pure version of the game that doesn't depend on an external launcher and won't get overwritten with a random update.

So if CA nukes the steam version, then nothing will change. Those 5,000 people will just download the CD version because it's small, easy to crack, and fully up to date. Which is not the case for newer games.

>>2078451
Nigha, you can't even change options in steam version

>>2078487
>I only got the steam version
hmm
>>2078487
>Which is years after the original
2 years after release of a 20 year old game
>kingdoms didn't even get on steam until 2014
11 years ago
>Every mod cautions steam users with additional instructions due to Windows 10/11 permissions messing with mods
Not a single mod does this. I challenge you to link a single mod (lets say from after 2015) with this warning.
>CD version since it's the pure version of the game
It's the same game
>doesn't depend on an external launcher
The steam version does not depend on an external launcher. You can launch it from the command line with no issue and 3rd party launchers like those used by Dac, Stainless Steel, Lucium, or the EOP all work fine.
>won't get overwritten with a random update
This is the point. The vast majority of players are at the mercy of a steam update. If and when that time comes then a cracked version may become popular. Until then everyone will keep using the steam version.
>So if CA nukes the steam version, then nothing will change.
Except for the fact that most players actually won't pirate it and will just consider the game to be dead. Do you have any idea how retarded most people are?
>CD version because it's small, easy to crack, and fully up to date
I already have a copy of the source code that leaked a few years ago. I bet you don't know nuffin about that though, do you?
My advice is to talk less about things you don't know much about, and to listen when people who do know about them are teaching.
Modders, and everyone else, use the Steam version & have used the Steam version for over a decade. We will continue to use the Steam version forever because if an update destroys that version it will also destroy the player base for our mods. We'll have to move to another platform or remain in permanent obscurity.
>>2078615
What are you talking about? The steam version is exactly the same as the CD version with all the same settings and files. Explain.

>>2067517 (OP)
>best total war
lol, the battle ai is worse in every regard compared to rome

its just not as reactive, there are no weight to them, tedious and just doesnt feel as good as rome combat does (2004)

>>2078740
>Not a single mod does this.
kek wtf? The warcraft mod you yourself posted has additional cautions and instructions for steam users on its moddb and TWC posts lmao.
I've explained how M2TW would be an easy switch from steam to CD, not sure why you need to bring up a dozen irrelevant topics. Maybe you don't know how to download and run a simple installer or something, but most M2TW players do.

>>2067517 (OP)
they should remake this game imo it was good

>>2069644
shogan war 1 was great i now remember

>>2078818
>The warcraft mod you yourself posted has additional cautions and instructions for steam users on its moddb and TWC posts lmao.
No, they dont
https://www.moddb.com/mods/call-of-warhammer-beginning-of-the-end-times/downloads/botet-15-discord-version
You made a false claim that
>many mod authors recommend against using the steam version anyway. I assume anyone still modding M2TW is using the CD version
I have demonstrated this claim is false. The burden of proof lies on you. If you can provide a link to a single major mod with a release from the last ten years that actually has seperate install instructions for Steam then I will concede this single point (not my overall argument that the vast majority of players use Steam and that CD players are a very small fraction and therefore an update to disable the steam version would essentially spell the end of Medieval 2 as we know it)
So go ahead and show the proof or take the L

>>2069644
give tips, I want to not suck

>>2079398
It's always the same thing
archers up front, cavalry on the wings. Keep a second line of reserves to either plug gaps or go around and flank the enemy
Unless you're terribly outnumbered you cannot lose a battle in this game

>>2079725
Ah, I should've clarified
It's the campaign map I'm not sure on

>>2080122
Your level of retardation is beyond help then

Best mod overall?

>>2080156
Divide and Conquer is the best mod overall and I don't think anyone would argue to the contrary
It's not my favorite but it's beyond anything else in terms of scope, scale, execution, balance, stability, depth. Everything a mod should judged on really

>>2079398
Just watch Khan of Steppe, he has a lot of videos and tutorials for old TWs on youtube.

>>2080245
Thank you!
>>2080150
You may be right, but I'm still going to try.

>>2080156
EB II or DaC.
It really depends on what you like.

>>2079398
>want tips
>but doesn't want to suck

>>2080351
kek

>>2078857
You're arguing about irrelevant shit. Steam users can switch easily to the CD version, that's the point.

>>2078857
>posts warhammer mod
Warcraft and warhammer are 2 different things, you're getting really confused. The warcraft mod you originally named has additional instructions for steam (pic related).
> If you can provide a link to a single major mod with a release from the last ten years that actually has seperate install instructions for Steam then I will concede this single point
Are you serious? kek
https://www.moddb.com/tutorials/sship-098-installation
https://www.moddb.com/mods/tsardoms-total-war/downloads/tsardoms-total-war-version-14
https://www.moddb.com/mods/broken-crescent/downloads/dar-al-harb-battle-balance-mod-version-11
https://www.moddb.com/mods/warcraft-total-war1

You're wrong again even on this petty point. All while failing to contradict the main point - the steam version getting fucked wouldn't change anything because players would just switch to the CD version (more stable, better for modding).

>>2080397
>SSHIP
This has no different install instructions. It's just telling you how to launch the mod using Steam
>Tsardoms
Nothing is written here about Steam
>broken-crescent
Nothing is written here about steam
>warcraft total war
This is where the screenshot you deviously cropped came from and the mod auther himself admits he doesn't think it's important
>according to the creators of the tool it is required to change some stuff for the Steam-version on Win 10 in order to prevent the screen from being too small.
First of all, this has nothing to do with Steam and seems to be more about Windows 10 than anything.
But secondly it's not even a real requirement.
>according to the creators of the tool
Literally who?
It's just some autistic ramblings from a nerdy mod developer
The fact is the steam version is identical to the CD version
There is no different install guide
There is no additional configuration required, because they are the same exact game with the same exact files
> the steam version getting fucked wouldn't change anything
Let's see if you're ready to confront my actual argument for a change.
As we've established the vast majority of players are on Steam.
As we've established the vast majority of players (and people in general) are retarded (they, for example, believe in nonsense like magic steam install guides)
If you were to destroy the steam version the game would cease to exist, for the vast majority.
As a result the modding community would die as the player base would evaporate.
Now would people with a brain (like me) still be able to play? Of course! We would simply find a copy of the executable and continue on with our lives. But what about smooth brained, easily manipulated people like you and the rest of the retards?
I'm afraid they would simply persist in a world where "Creative assembly killed Medieval 2" and "guess we'll just have to buy Medieval 3 now"
>CD version (more stable, better for modding).
Again, neither of these things are true.

You're both retarded. Now kiss.

>>2080551
They aren't exactly the same. For starters the disc version has 3 different exe files instead of only one for the Steam version.

>>2080584
You're getting closer anon, next are you going to figure out why every install guide is exactly the same (because they assume the steam version)
When was the last time you saw a modern mod talking about replacing kingdoms.exe? I haven't seen that for probably ten years. The default is to set steam launch options just like the mods you linked explain to do...because steam IS the default version.
Do not forget this entire discussion began because you erroneously claimed there were more CD players than Steam players in 2025

>There's an update to fix pikes and gunpowder
>Mobile only
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXOGp4z9SpM

>>2081004
We don't need this update because mods fixed these issues ten years ago

>>2081222
Which mod has a proper cohesion mechanics for pikes instead of pikes that immediately draw their secondary weapons like in vanilla or super OP pikes without any secondary weapons?

>>2081485
That's both nonsense and would look like ass in melee. If they're drawing swords shit either hit the fan or you had a massive skill issue.

>>2081508
Why are you even posting in this thread if you never played the game?

>>2081529
Nice shitpost. Now take your meds and stop talking out of your ass.

>>2081222
Mods didn't fix it properly since you need to break sidearms to get it functional, this is an actual fix that doesn't break anything in the process

>>2081004
Pcmasterracebros... they're gonna find a way to port this fix to the PC version... right?

>>2077463
>Medieval II is only not a buggy piece of shit with mods
Yeah I can see why people want Medieval III so badly

>>2081485
>super OP pikes without any secondary weapons
thats...just what a pike is bro
There's a reason why they were the second to last remnant of classical warfare to last into the modern age (second only to cavalry)
>>2081583
I don't think having my pike unit pull out swords is realistic. If their cohesion was disrupted to the point where the pikewall failed the unit would more than likely break

>>2081222
Mods never fixed shit.

>>2081004
Does this work on emulators? I'm not giving them my money for a mobile port.

>>2081741
>Mods never fixed shit.
They solved the pike issue over ten years ago but OK

>>2081742
Mods "fix" pikes by taking away their sidearms entirely, which causes other problems. It's far from being a proper fix and even modders acknowledge this.

>>2081744
Seems realistic to me, no?
What "problems" does it cause?
In what ways is "Pikes now behave correctly" not a "proper fix"

>>2081750
It's not realistic. All pike units throughout history had a side arm and in the game side arms have an important gameplay function. Taking them away makes pikes overpowered and not play as originally intended, therefore it is not a proper fix.

>>2081757
>All pike units throughout history had a side arm
This is true but by the time the pike wall breaks the unit would have routed. The only thing keeping men on the field of battle was good order. Breaking your formation is literally the opposite of that. I bet you can't find more than a handful of examples of a pike unit holding ground after their formation breaks. I'm sure it happened a few times but it would have been an example of heroic bravery and an extreme outlier to the norm.
>side arms have an important gameplay function
They're simply a way to represent some amount of resistance when a unit of archers or artillery are dragged into melee combat. There's no "gameplay" reason for a pike to have one in the first place.
>Taking them away makes pikes overpowered
Not in any practical sense of the term "overpowered"
A wall of men armed with 10 foot pikes is a fearsome sight and as I pointed out was so effective it remained a fixture on the battlefield long after the bow and the sword stopped being effective. It's only "overpowered" in the sense that the unit, historically, was "overpowered"
>not play as originally intended
Pretty sure the entire point of mods is to make the game "not play as originally intended"
>not a proper fix
In what way?
It is realistic. A pike unit's sidearm would not be a deciding factor in any engagement (especially not in this game where the units are more or less strategic representations of actual formations)
Side arms do not serve an important gameplay function for a unit that already has a melee weapon
Pikes are not "overpowered" compared to their historical use
Playing as originally intended is not the point of a mod
Pikes were fixed over 10 years ago

>>2081740
>I don't think having my pike unit pull out swords is realistic.
>posts a picture of pikemen with sidearms
Did you think they were purely decorative?
>>2081742
No, they really just traded one issue for another. The mobile port actually fixes it properly. PC gamers find themselves in the uncomfortable position of having an inferior port unless Feral releases some form of update for PC.

>>2081798
>an inferior port
inferior version*

>>2081763
>In what way?
>It is realistic.
It's not realistic. Pikemen would have used the sidearms they were equipped with when the situation called for it. They literally never use it with the modders' """"fix""""
If Medieval II Remastered becomes a reality, people will no longer have to pretend that the old "fix" was acceptable. I doubt you'll see anybody making mods to disable their sidearms.

>>2081763
imaging writing a wall of cope
were you one of those modders?

>>2081740
>I don't think having my pike unit pull out swords is realistic. If their cohesion was disrupted to the point where the pikewall failed the unit would more than likely break
Pikemen commonly had standard drills to prepare to make use of their sidearms during battles, they would stand on the end and draw the sword to deal with horsemen etc who drew too close, or in general if their pike was broken. It was absolutely an integral part of their role in battle and you can find lots of etchings of this sort of thing.

>>2081798
>Did you think they were purely decorative?
No but again if the unit is so disrupted to the point where the shield wall has failed then 9 times out of 10 the unit will break not fight on with swords
>>2081799
yes. The mobile version that is.
>>2081801
There is no situation where the entire unit would drop their pikes and fight with swords as you're implying. The purpose of a pike wall is to present an impenetrable wall of pikes to the enemy. These men were more often than not very rudely trained and relied on strict order and discipline to hold their formation and line in battle. If and when that formation was broken they would in turn break and quit the field. There is no situation (outside of a few examples of brave heroism) where the unit would carry on and fight after their formation was broken.
>>2081804
Try addressing the argument next time.
>>2081811
Yes an individual in the unit may have at times used a sidearm in the manner you described. What didn't happen was the unit decided to all drop their pikes and fight as a sword bearing unit instead.
IDK how many times I have to type it but at the point where the shield wall is broken the unit would break and the men would quit the field. The pike unit, from the classical hoplite all the way into the early modern age, depended entirely on formation and good order to be effective. As soon as these are lost the unit will not be able to fight on.

>>2082276
>shield wall
As many times as it's required for you to stop with your retarded garbage and go kill yourself.

>>2082285
spear wall

>>2067517 (OP)
>Stainless Steel
I guess I just missed the boat on Stainless Steel, since every time I try to play it, it just ends up feeling too slow, and not at all an improvement over the base game.

>>2082957
Are you sure you're playing Stainless Steel and not the SHHIP bloat mod?
I don't think I've played vanilla a single time since I first started on Stainless Steel and honestly can't think of a single thing vanilla does better. You are entitled to your opinion tho of course

>>2082957
SS is more vanilla paced imo, the turn times are fast

>>2078430
It'd never happen, anon. The focus group addicts would lose their minds. Test audiences wouldn't want it because the legionnaires don't look like the dudes from Passion of the Christ.

The same thing happened to the guy who was the mastermind behind, "God of War." He wanted the aesthetics of the game originally to be heavily rooted in historical examples. But test audiences said it, "didn't look like Ancient Greece," to them. He was beyond frustrated because he was literally pulling this stuff out of museums and history books, but nobody liked it. That's why Athens in GoW 1 looks like Caesar's Palace in Vegas.

I like the slow burn, but the beginning for every faction is very awful. You'll spend days trying to get to the things you actually want to do, but honestly I'm OK with the delayed gratification. It makes it that much more fun in the end.

Take for example this here Stormwind campaign I'm doing in, "Warcraft: Total War." I've done it before in many versions but the same thing always happens: I spend like a week fighting Dark Iron, Dark Horde and Gurubashi chuds. It's not what I want to do with the campaign, but when I finally finish having all those level 6-9 retrained stacks of units and having generals and agents with good traits makes it worth. It's also lore accurate, so I suppose I give it a pass on that point.

Same with Rome. You're lucky if before a new version pops you ever get to even fight the Punic Wars. But when you do, it's so Worth. Delayed gratification can be a good thing.

>>2078444
Empire I tolerated because it was serviceable and set in an era I really like. Also, the naval battles were good. Bros were mad because they were slow and historically accurate in terms of mechanics and not reenactments of pirate movies.

I almost never auto-resolve now because I know I can win with fewer casualties and when I fight my wars every battle is intentional. There's always a bigger strategy and I'm focusing on getting my armies to the finish line with minimal losses for maximum pain inflicted on the enemy. I'll save game and walk away and come back when I feel like fighting the battle, if that's the case.

Yeah, the diplomacy AI can basically only be fixed with intense scripting.

The naval stuff is getting better, in my estimation. I mean it rarely happens but it still happens. I've also never experienced the situation where a massive empire doesn't bring it's full strength to bear against me if I bring something equally menacing. My war in that Stainless Steel mod against Novgorod & Kiev was basically the Eastern Front; I built armies to take every single city along a front plus armies in support to fight off responses and we leap-frogged our way in a solid front all the way into the East. Good times, but these two nations had basically formed Imperial Russia, so they had a lot of resources to bring to bear against me.

I don't have the CD version and, frankly, have no clue how to get one now.

>>2078790
You have obviously never fought a battle on VH in a campaign where the AI is actually generating good unit stacks to cave your head in.

>>2083081
>>2083896
>more vanilla paced
Not really, unless you're telling me the average long campaign for SS also lasts ~50-60 turns.
Building times and unit recruitment rates being increased means I'm sitting there mashing end turn more often.
Diplomacy is "better" in that I can now send diplomats around bribing settlements with the gold I've saved, avoiding the actual gameplay.
Seems like you're stuck with mostly militia units for the first 100 or so turns.
This is just going off what I remember.

>>2067813
>he doesn't stack his entire army directly behind the front gate and go get a snack

why wasnt this more popular. It had sovl

why wasnt this mod more popular. It had sovl

>>2088921
The average retard (i.e. me) has no idea how to download mods that aren't on the Workshop

>>2088928
my brother in creative assembly
https://www.moddb.com/mods/hyrule-total-war/downloads/hyrule-total-war-47-mega-fan-patch
the instructions are pretty clear

>>2077465
>Mechanically for what Total War fans want Total War to be
It doesn't have a battle AI that isn't dogshit crippled garbage. Which is why shogun and medieval 1 are the only good games in the series if you aren't playing multiplayer.

>>2086005
>you do this
>the AI just stands in a single horizontal line
>it's still there when you come back

>>2088921
Nobody under the age of 60 that isn't a Hyper-Autist knows enough about Legend of Zelda fluff to think the setting even has potential for a Total War game, let alone would download a mod for a 10+ year old game.
Meanwhile I'm over here in WarCraft: Total War living my absolute best life since the RP community in the MMO is now nothing but gooners and basedjacks.
Stormwind Forever, motherfuckers.

>>2088930
>"waaah I can't just push a button and go do a four-panel PMV goon-stream while it downloads then have it work perfectly, waaaah"

>>2090633
basedjacks
i meant basedjacks
i'm drunk
fuck

>>2090636
S O Y J A C K S
kill me

>>2089402
M2:TW does have the best AI at VH/VH.
The only problem is that the campaign AI at that level also has the mindset of, "Fuck the player because he's the player, do absolutely nothing that could possibly assist him. In any way. Even if it means your absolute extermination."
Multiplayer is fun if you have people who like the mod you play, but wherever you find these people I have no idea. There's some campaigns that still challenge me.

creative assembly should have made a official legend of zelda total war game.
Lots of money would have been made

>>2088930
I guess younger kids didn't grow up with moddb and forum instructions.

>>2090633
If we got Dinasty Warriors: The Legend of Zelda Edition we can get Total War: The Legend of Zelda.

>>2090725
the younger generation is weak

I have a weird problem with Stainless Steel, pic related. I recently captured Palermo and now young Sicilian Generals keep spawning there, outside their former capital. I had the same issue in my other game while playing Denmark, Norwegian diplomats, merchants and family members kept spawning near Bergen after I captured it. In this current game its only happeing with the Kingdom of Sicily. I didnt see any Moorish generals appearing outside of Cordoba which I captured some time ago.
Anyone ever heard of that bug, or anything similair? Not sure if this is Stainless steel issue or it existed in the vanilla also but my google searches dont give me any answers.

>>2090793
I think they want to marry your princess <3

>>2090902
I wanted to say that shes at another castle but shes actually at the other end of Italy

>>2090793
It's the, "resurgent faction," feature. Basically instead of rebel stacks there's a chance that units will spawn in from a faction in their starting provinces. It doesn't work for every faction, though. Basically the idea is to give Rebel stacks more character and a chance for factions to come back later in a campaign.

>>2091297
The kingdom of Sicily is not dead they still have at least two regions, besides that would make sense if it spawned with some units besides one single general.

I decided to leave them alone since i cant just camp and kill them every turn they appear. I have shit to do.

>>2090793
I was wrong about the Moors not spawning in Cordoba

VH/VH Difficulty of course. Wacraft: Total War mod. TFT Campaign.

Feels good man.

Is SSHIP supposed to be played with "manage all cities" on or off?

>>2067517 (OP)
>Stainless Steel
New player, to the genre really. Going against the normy recommendation of WH3 to play this instead. So, Stainless Steel mod is all I need? Recommended difficulty for a new player? Do I need to watch videos to learn how to play or will the game teach me?

>>2097051
The base game tutorial will teach you everything. Stainless Steel is basically a vanilla+ mod so it's a good place to start. Normal difficulty is fine to start with.

>>2097051
It's hard for me to give you good advice since i've been playing for over 10 years
I started with Rome I think my first campaign was on M/M as Julii but it was over ten years ago not really sure.
I know I only play V/V now but I also know exactly how the engine / AI works so it's sort of a different game to me in that sense.
I'd say yeah go with Stainless Steel for sure. I'd say Normal / Medium difficulty is probably fine. I'd suggest playing your favorite faction first. If you don't have a favorite faction play as England (my favorite faction)
Don't watch any videos it'll just spoil your fun desu. There is a 'right' way to play but it's more fun to not know about it and just figure it out as you go.
Enjoy, general.

>>2097072
I just realized it's 2025 and that first game of Rome was like 20 years ago holy shit

>>2096194
Leave it on, don’t let the AI try to build your cities for you

>>2097113
I wouldn't in any case, I would just have set ai expenditure to 0 and ping pong governors as needed (considering buildings take a gorillion turns to be build). I just want to know what the mod is balanced around, from what I have seen in the TW center threads it would seem to be balanced around VH/VH, "manage all cities" off and "needing a general to attack" on.

>>2097123
There is zero reason to have that setting off, the game doesn't nag you to build anything in your cities each turn or something like that. No idea who is claiming otherwise or why they would.

I need Pike and Shot: Total War right now!!!

>>2097875
The truth is that the 1 6 4 8 mod will probably always be better than any goyslop the company produces now.

Also, hose frames on the firing is absolutely kino.

wake up babe, pre-hispanic Mesoamerica mod is out

>>2098753

>>2098153
thanks anon for the mod rec

>>2097875
OiM 2
and Potop
My favorite pike & shot mods

>>2098753
I found a good channel for Mesoamerican history, and lo and behold this mod releases the day after I start watching. Hell yeah.
https://www.youtube.com/@AncientAmericas

coming back to Medieval 2 and playing Roar of Conquest as England is a nightmare, when the 100 years of war event start, the France, Scot, and HRE will attack you, truly magnificent