This is the best P*radox game, for a very simple reason:

>all of their games only have blobbing (war) to offer
>this one has the best war mechanics.

"b-but it's popular therefore bad" is not an argument. It's their best game

why do you keep making these ass threads?

>>2072542 (OP)
Alright, can we put the memes aside for a moment and all agree that, for what it set out to do, HoI4 is a success? It gave us a WWII grandstrat free from all the archaic bullshit of Darkest Hour, and also much easier to get into then HoI3. Can anyone here honestly say they enjoy wasting an hour to fix their OoB every time they start a game of HoI3? Not to mention that, rather than needing to tediously micromanage industry like in other HoI games, HoI4's industry is both streamlined as well as more intuitive than the previous games. Yeah, it's true that HoI4 leads to more "ahistorical" scenarios, but isn't that the point? Why even bother playing the game if the outcome is predetermined form the start? Moreover, from a pure gameplay perspective, giving the player more options, whether they be historical or ahistorical, is a total success. Sure, Mosley ruling Britain never could have happened in reality, but it's fun to have the ability to easily do so in video game form.
Overall, I feel that HoI4 is getting a lot of undeserved hate simply because it isn't a total copy of HoI3 with slightly better graphics. Of COURSE the game is different - HoI3 already exists, there would be no point to making the same game again! HoI4 may be different, but that's by design, not by some unforeseen flaw, and it should be celebrated for the changes it made, not hated on.

>>2072542 (OP)
Hoi4 is retards first grand strategy and that's a good thing

>>2072542 (OP)
I know you meme, but this is what hoi4 players believe.

>>2072647
>>2072655
>ad hominem with no argument

HOI4 is by far their worst game because the simplistic, highly exploitable war mechanics devalue the rest of the game. And its not like the rest of the game is any good either, its a visual novel disguised as a wargame, the trade, politics, diplomacy and economy mechanics have literally zero depth.

>>2073136
It's a wargame you fucking retard

>>2073136
>I totally don't use AI automation in HoI3
Me when I lie online.

>>2073141
Its a choose your adventure visual novel with a wargamey minigame inside it

>>2073149
HOI3 is even worse since it adds more tedium to the minigame and the rest of the mechanics are even more simplistic, well excluding politics but they aren't good in HOI3 either

>>2073155
>dude this game is just pressing buttons and looking at a screen
Why do midwits love simplifying everything?

>>2073136
you are right that hoi 4 simplifies a lot of things (war, lack of money, lack of building types, etc etc)
But hoi 4 does have one thing thats more complex than hoi 3. Which is the production mechanics. The production mechanics just isnt as advanced in hoi3.

>>2073156
Nothing more simplistic than a game with zero anti-snowball mechanics and where picking the right brigade compositions turns the game in very easy mode from the start regardless of which nation you pick, its not like it is the current situation of the game, it was always like this since it is unfixable, Paradox learned their lesson with Vicky 3 and that's how they saved that game, if it has the same dogshit warfare mechanics as HOI4 it would have ended up like Imperator Rome and that is a guarantee.

>>2073155
Are you about to rattle off a hypothetical "just simulate everything, bro" game that requires a supercomputer to run?

Sim nigs are insufferable.

>>2073159
Oh, it's just lazy bait.

Not going to give xir the (You), but Imperator Rome is way more of a complete and playable experience than Victoria 3 right now.

>>2073165
cant we all just be friends

@2073168
>>>/soc/

>>2073155
>Its a choose your adventure visual novel with a wargamey minigame inside it
So you agree it's their best game

>>2073168

HOI4 is only good as a modding resource, a la Gmod.
You don't play Gmod sandbox with no mods, in the same way you shouldn't play HOI4 vanilla with no mods.

Look, I would love to play Hoi3 more except, at my heart, I am very much someone who is addicted to designing units.

Since I don't play multiplayer, it is about creating that RP narrative in my head that gives me a chance to design vehicles and produce them.

Now, if they could find a way to glue a unit designer into Hoi3, I would be happy. Unit designers make everything better.

>>2072542 (OP)
>"b-but it's popular therefore bad" is not an argument.
what? it's their most popular one. is this thread ai generated

>>2090521
Amazing reading comprehension

>a gorillion dollars in dlc
>they keep making it harder to steal dlc with a legit copy forcing me to just pirate the whole game
god i hate paradox

>>2072542 (OP)
>Goy$
>has the best war mechanics

>>2090677
>I could just pirate the whole thing and save myself any hassle
>Let's buy a legit baseline, then run through loops and obstacle course so I can then add pirated DLCs
>All for no reason at all
Explain yourself
>inb4 forum access/workshop
If you can run cream_api, but can't get into the official forum or need workshop to use mods, you might have the very special kind of autism

>>2091774
unintelligible post

>>2091777
>>All for no reason at all
Mods

>>2091786
>I can handle cream_api
>I can't mod the game without workshop
Like a clock

>>2091788
It's not avou "can and can't", it's just easier to drag and drop cream_api once a year, when a meaningful dlc releases, than fuck around with mods everytime they update

>>2091793
>avou
About*

>>2091793
>>2091800
The absolute state of zoomers
>inb4 not a zoomer
Only zoomer would struggle with this or even consider it a struggle

>>2091807
>muh zoomers
holy rent free

>>2072542 (OP)
Other paradox games dont have the MLP mod, so yes it's the best one

>>2091807
>stuggle
Again you're strawmanning

Why is everyone being so negative. HOI4 is far better than HOI3 and is a way more interesting game than all the other paradox titles.
>Dlc $$$
Stop being poor

>>2072542 (OP)
It is a forever game, like Skyrim. Good for gamer therapy. Total War Attila had turns that took too long even though the art was really good to look at, therefore HOI 4 is the besty strategy game.

Audio, visual, and mechanics are all great. I never could figure out a way to repel the European colonization of North America as a plains Indian tribe so I will say HoI 4 hands down.

goi4 is McDonaldd of strategy

>>2072542 (OP)
>"if you ignore all other mechanics (which I will, because I suck at gsg) the only things pdx games have to offer is war!"

>>2094154
>It is a forever game, like Skyrim. Good for gamer therapy.
kek aptly put.
I'm getting a little offtopic here, but it's crazy that there's still no open world adventure RPG that surpasses Skyrim with Ordinator and Apocalypse

>>2094200
Victoria 2 and 3 are the only ones that work with that logic, and even then in Vicky 3 blobbing is a great strategy so maybe only 2.
All other paradox games... if you ain't blobbing what are you doing? Going le tall? Boy I sure love doing nothing on max speed for an hour

>>2094479
EU4 has soft power mechanics and peace deals that don't involve land transfers.
Git gud and you can use them.
Expansion is best after you get Imperialism anyway.

>>2094552
>>>>>>>>>Boy I sure love doing nothing on max speed for an hour

>>2072542 (OP)
This game was the hardest PDX slop for me to get into because of its war mechanics. I didn't understand shit about equipment, logistics, air combat, naval combat, front lines, etc.
All their other games, you just recruit a unit and send it elsewhere.

Hoi 4 is a logistics production sim. Hoi 3 is a military general sim

What are the best turn-based games that are similar to hoi? Like decent 'enough' unit control for wars alongside logistics, production, resources and shit. Diplomacy option, I don't wanna deal with dumbass political shit, just war and the means of war.

>>2095273
HoI4 is very easy to get into once you realize it's not a grand strategy game, it's a wargame. The only complex things are war-related, everything else is extremely shallow (by design) like the economy, trade, pop management and so on.
You just gotta learn the one thing

>>2095294
Why turn-based?

>>2095306
Sure, but it has a steeper learning curve, at least it had for me. I never tried a 1939 start because I dislike playing a late date, so the first dozens of attempts were just a loop of
>prepare for three years
>war breaks out
>lose
>can't figure out why

>>2095308
I like turn based

>>2095315
shadow empire

>>2095311
did you actually try learning tho?
watch people play the game

>>2095273
victoria 3 was the hardest for me but thats because it was econ based. Im more used to war shit

>>2095319
Did you managed to learn Victoria 3 proper? I'm trying right now and it's a big ass learning curve

>>2095316
Then I guess I'm one step ahead of the curve. I honestly expected as much though, games that do even just mid details and engagement with logistics, production and such alongside the war making tend to be few and far between, especially in WW2 and post type settings.

>>2095317
I did, but it was a lot of trial and error. I located the immediate cause of my troops losing and then had to start the entire campaign all over only to miss some other hole in my "economy" or division setup or whatever.
>watch people play the game
I won't.

>>2095323
>>watch people play the game
>I won't.
Then you're making it harder on yourself bruv

>>2091815
I wish zoomers being dumb consumers addicted to dopamine and their phones were as fake and gay issue as immigrant crisis or libtards screeching about LGPBBQ rights
Instead, my well-being in the future depends on the quality of service and work zoomers are to provide and the offspring they will spawn.
And that's pure, existential dread

>>2095311
>>2095323
Which country, which DLCs
Guides and wikias are a thing, you know. GoY$ is super-easy, so you must be doing something very fundamentally wrong, like having terrible/not enough divisions (very common) or trying to apply real-life logic to a game (like building TAC or navy, thinking they are going to be useful)
Germany is like baby's first country, because it's super-easy to handle and all you need to do is just follow the historical path, while the game hand-holds you to get the big enough army.
Japan is also very useful to learn how the game works, since you can entirely ignore WW2 around you and just fuck around in China (a complete pushover) all on your own, with no outside factors.

>>2095317
>Go watch others play
Go fuck yourself

>>2095346
>>Go watch others play
>Go fuck yourself
wut
why so mad at the concept

>>2095347
Consult >>2095343

>>2095349
>>2095343
You sound like either a falseflagger or a legit low IQ 'tard. Watching games to learn them (like fighting games or grand strat games) is very helpful.
Keep psyopping/being a retard idc

>>2095347
And if you still don't get it:
"Ape see, ape do" is not a learning technique. It's how to stay retarded.

>>2095351
this has to be a discord troon falseflagging

>>2095352
>muh troons
>muh falseflag
>muh psyop
Anything more to throw at me, zoomie?
Read. The. Guide.
Activate those few brain cells you still didn't manage to damage or kill.
Watching others play means you are repeating their moves, without understanding why they did them
>b-but they talk about their moves
Rarely, and usually on level of meta that is barely comprehensible to a newfag, meaning you create a moron player that knows the meta, but doesn't understand why to even use it or what makes it tick.
So: go fuck yourself, you fucking child

>>2095355
>reading guides
monkey see monkey do! that's a retard's way of learning!!!
True chads waste thousands of hours on trial and error, sorry but you're a simp zoomie faggot!!!

>>2095357
>N-no, you!
Stay mad, and stay clueless, if you chose to

>>2095359
>stay mad
Says the guy who could have easily said "I prefer guides" but instead decided to sperg out unprompted

>>2095357
A guide will explain you, in-depth, why this or that mechanic works in a specific way, how it affects things, what's the basic number crunch. You can then apply what you learned from it into the game, on your own, because you know the mechanic governing the things you are doing.
A youtuber will ask you what's up guys, tell you to like and subscribe, spend 5 minutes to cover the sponsor of today's video and then will tell you "press this button, now move your units here, bam, epic win!"
If those are in any way identical, you might have been genuinely brain-damaged already

>>2095361
That's your opinion, what I don't understand is the sudden hostility

>>2095360
It's not about preference, it's about one being useful and the other not. Unless we are going to pretend sleeping and taking taking amphetamine are both viable ways of staying rested and alive

>>2095362
>It's just opinion, lmao
No, it isn't. The fact you consider such stuff a matter of opinion is just part of the reason why zoomers are so fucking dumb

>>2095363
goddamn, this thing sure made you mad

>>2095311
>>2095323
From the top of my head
>Play HoI2 vanilla first, it has an actual tutorial that's viable for learning how to play every single HoI game since and transfers a lot of useful knowledge to 4
>In 4, you are probably doing your divisions wrong, either making them too big, too small or underarmed
>In 4, you are probably using the build-in tool for automating your fronts. DON'T, it will fuck you up if you did your divisions badly and is sub-optimal anyway
>In 4, in the same time, the game pretty much doubles-down to force you to use that tool, so you are forced to use planning mechanics or else your troops underperform against AI defenses (who use that system) unless you know what you are doing
>In 4, navy is utterly ignorable and airforce is a nice luxury, not a must, so you are potentially spreading resources and/or factories on useless shit
>In 4, vast majority of DLCs are making the game worse; this means you potentially are suffering consequences of some meme mechanic without even knowing about it
>In 4, while NSB is a MASSIVE improvement of the game, it is also the one DLC that fucks over newfags, since they have even worse grasp of logistics than AI and easily fuck themselves with overstretched supply lines; it is strongly advised to first learn to play WITHOUT this DLC and only add it later to the mix
>Any super-projects, duper-construction or non-core mechanics are pure trash, waste of time, resources and mana. There is a tiny handful of exceptions, but as a rule of thumb - don't, it's a distraction
>No matter what, it's a frontline simulator. Everything else is secondary, don't get distracted
>Unless you have less than 10 Civs and can't get any early on via focuses, just build Mil factories and nothing else, you will get more useful shit sooner than trying to first build up your economy (lmao)
>Every single division should be carrying engineers, no exceptions, so make sure you fulfill requirements and gear

>>2072542 (OP)
I think I might even agree if the AI wasn't so terrible. It is completely incapable of any decisive action so all it does is build loads of giant infantry divisions it will inevitably run out of equipment for, supported by 5 tank divisions (tanks not included) whilst putting 60% of its factories onto fighters then mashes its units into yours until it runs out of manpower.

>>2095647
Not my experience. Either way mods have their own AIs

>>2072542 (OP)
Fortnite must then be one of the greatest games ever made no cap ong

>>2094559
>I refuse to use the game's mechanics, but the other guy is still making things happen! He must be sitting on max speed!
Worthless.

>>2095377
>Every single division should be carrying engineers

An Italian infantry division with nine infantry no support is more effective than a an engineer plus unit due to high organization around Ethiopia.

High organization works wonders in rough terrain. That's why HOI 4 is so good it fucks gamer logic so hard.

>I have a magic sword +5 division from doing the quests right
>rushes ahead
>gets cutoff
>red Jerry can of death while sh*t tier cav units eat it's green bar
>oh F*ck it took me three years to make that
>time to try again

The way this game plays less is more is priceless. So many gamers getting screwed thinking that an upgrade will save them like evert other game when they would have been better off starting another line while pumping Grosstraktors and Infantry EQ I.

When you hear a youtuber complaining that researching electronics does nothing because they timed it you just know lol.

>>2072647
I always see this and then never hear any advanced, veteran options for grognards with good taste. What, to you specifically, is a good grand strategy game? Gary Grigsby? Aurora? CMO? Some obscure AGEOD game?