The best TW of all time. Shogun 3 when???

>>2085924 (OP)
Agreed

>>2085924 (OP)
Nah

>>2085924 (OP)
>Shogun 3 when
Why even bother? 2 is already perfect.

>people say it overcomes the warscapeslop floaty feeling
>play it
>it's even more retarded, units don't act as formations at all and they drop dead from a slight breeze

>2086377
bait

>>2085924 (OP)
You could make something from 3k baseline. We can have actual Diplo and shogun/controling the emperor mechanics

>>2085924 (OP)
>best total war game
>top five are not actual total war games
Shogun was great though.

>>2086533
sauce?

>>2085924 (OP)
The TW format was pretty much perfected in Shogun 2. But we don't need Shogun 3 because all the shortcomings of the game were basically baked into its setting like very little faction diversity and limited geography. The Shogun 2 model just needs to be ported to other times and places and the series would be great. Instead they took it in a different direction and basically made the games linear and dumbed down. Shogun 3 should actually be Medieval 3.

>>2086377
Yari will maintain formation if you spear wall and guard them.
It makes no sense for anyone else to maintain formation because they have no shields and need to stay mobile.
The kill speed is realistic because again no shields and one good strike is all that's needed to kill.
You can use darthmod if you want battles to last longer and be more visceral.
Also despite all this it does avoid the floaty feeling.

>>2086535
Nta but King Arthur The Role Playing Wargame

>>2086535
>>2086584
>it's in the shot
For fucks sake.

The game is very good for a melee TW title. Unfortunately for it however, blackpowder warfare is the most kino form of war invented by mankind, so it does lose to TW Napoleon.

>>2086698
Just play FotS with darthmod

>>2086733
Never understood why do so many people love FotS. The battles are amazing at the beginning with some of that pike-and-shot-esque feel, but as the game progresses it becomes hilariously easy. The only solution would be locking all the advanced technology away, but I haven't found any mods that would do it.

>>2086739
>with some of that pike-and-shot-esque feel
Anon, did your parents drop you on your head while young?
Pike and shot is literally nothing but squares of 1 unit that does exactly 1 thing + cav.
It was the most retarded, simple era of European warfare.
Nothing in FotS comes even close to being as primitively one-note.

>>2086698
Man, all I want and all the fans want is a new Empire, Shogun and Medieval (in that order for me)

>>2086824
Me too, but unfortunately history nerds and /gsg/ers aren't the main TW fanbase anymore. The majority of nu-TW 'fans' would very much prefer Warhammer 4 and then Warhammer 5, this time with 20 more types of trolls and ogres which you can send in to destroy your opponents' army in an instant.

>>2086833
To be fair, I've had a lot of fun with TWW3. I just don't want it to be an either or, where we keep getting these side spinoffs for historical

>>2086755
take your meds friendo

>>2086739
you have gun battles but with ai that actually works unlike empire or napoleon

>>2086861
Yeah, I agree. Didn't like any of the WH games personally, but I wouldn't have an issue with them as long as historicals would be given the same time and money investment and wouldn't get influenced by WH at all. Unfortunately, we already have historicals with hero units, so that's a bit of a pipe dream.

>>2086912
Napoleon with LME4 is quite alright.
Also Empire is not even slightly comparable to Napoleon, the AI there is straight up unplayable. Napoleons' at least forms lines and advances them at you.

Why don't people play Rise of the Samurai? It's not bad. Hell, sieges are easier cos most clans don't start with castles

>>2086914
fair but it's not as good as fots imho
you get to larp tom cruise with semi medieval units as well

>>2086917
name three things it has going for it over the base s2 campaign

>>2085924 (OP)
I tried replaying it recently, but much as I want to love it, it's basically solved through 95% of the game being siege battles and borked diplomacy mechanics.

>>2086928
>name three things it has going for it over the base s2 campaign
I guess I like the time period, it's real feudal Japan, no Europeans bringing guns over, just guys playing with swords and bows
And uhhhh

Kamakura uwu :3

>>2086755
>>2086739
speaking of pike and shot
have you guys played the pike and shot mod for shogun 2?

>>2086949
you understand where i'm getting at then?
it's shogun 2 base campaign with even less unit variety and mechanics

>>2085924 (OP)
Anyone else have a problem where they forget to make new army comps because they've become over reliant on Ashigaru spear walls, archers and sword cav?

>>2086988
Besides the mechanics, the immersion is pretty cool. Like I said, it's pure feudal Japan, with no guns

>>2086694
The shot just says King Arthur, nothing else.

>>2086988
>unit variety and mechanics
Things are so much better now there's hundreds of progress bars and stat-modifiers with different names and artwork, even if we did lose fatigue simulation, reloads, formations with physical attributes, deployable defences, faster or slower movement depending on moving up or down hills, being able to send units where we like, naval battles, natural battle-pacing, defensive sieges that could be won with a handful of units using real-world tactics....

>>2087051
I just build all bow samurai with max + melee possible

Unit variety is a crutch for games with poor simulation to fall on. Medieval 2 was spearmanii as a base with swordmanii as a topping and sprinkled with axemanii for flavor. But it provided an illusion of variety through each unit evolving with visual upgrades.

>>2087243
And guns

>>2085924 (OP)
okay, enough time has passed and I'm down to replay this.
What's the must have mods? Preferably graphic enhancements

>>2085924 (OP)
>The best TW of all time
lol lmao

>archers on hill have same range as archers below (all previous non warscape TW had this)
>no visible unit upgrades to quickly identify them on the battlefield (med 2)
>incorrect unit vo using english sentences in japanese which make no sense in japanese (orginal shogun had correct vo)
>slow ass arrows fired in arc (non warscape TW had normal arrow flight speed)
>duels between ashigaru units

>>2086739
Strategy autists complaining about games being too easy is in fact a point in said game’s favor. There has never been a single strategy game made better by tuning it to the point you have to take a fucking college introduction course to be capable of standing a chance at victory. That’s not fun, that will never be fun.

>>2087444
You are the most autistic gorilla retard I have seen in my life. How the fuck is placing a single Parrott gun battery and watching it do everything for you fun? Literally no one has ever said that games need to be as hard as you implied. But FotS literally has no challenge unless you cut off your cock and balls yourself and forbid yourself from using half the modern technology available in the game.

>>2087447
Speaking of cock and balls, you strategy autists are all into cock and ball torture. No seriously, ask someone that is earnestly into strategy games like this dude their favorites, they will invariably give some retarded game using a bullshit mod that is practically fucking impossible without learning every retarded numeric value under the hood to game the system, and often with new mechanics added in to make it even HARDER. You people only have fun when you are being tortured, no thanks.

>>2087452
what filtered you pal? want to talk about it?

>>2087403
All nitpicks which don't matter.

>>2087464
>tactics don't matter
>in a strategy game
1/10 made me post

>>2087452
Yeah. I do not get it. They chase that tedious realism and no fun historicity. The more boring and tedious and less colours it have the better.
It's not fun.

>>2087605
You literally know nothing about the topic you're discussing and it shows. Historical accuracy enjoyers are the same ones pushing for more colors (as it was historically accurate) and less hollywoodish misery and grey all around (as it was historically accurate).

>>2087630
>Historical accuracy enjoyers are the same ones pushing for more colors
Seeing Nolan’s weird and boring black armours for his Odyssey flick honestly disgusted me

>>2087648
Yeah, it's retarded. You know, the one thing I've always been wondering about hollywoodcucks producing such historically inaccurate slop are their exact motivations. It's a well-known cop out that "oh well, no one except for history nerds would care" but I'm almost certain that is untrue. Why wouldn't an average normie feel that protagonists in colorful armor are cooler than before? Why wouldn't he consider pike battles where both sides are struggling to hold the line while trying to push the enemy lines back with their pikes as much more interesting to watch than the boring "everyone charges into each other" hollywoodism? Normies can't be THAT incurious of the world and its' history, right? I watched Alatriste with family a few months ago, and even my normie family members remarked that the (historically accurate) battles were actually more interesting to watch than the hollywood slop. There is serious profit in historical accuracy, and not just from the history nerds.

>>2087657
Kid you're not on /v/ and you're not fitting in any more or less depending on how much buzzwords or edge you spew.

>>2087673
What the fuck are you talking about? The only "buzzword" I used was 'normie' and maybe 'slop' and those are certainly much more convenient words than 'someone who is not interested in history' and 'a piece of media created for the sole purpose of appealing to the societal groups without any deep curiosity of interest in the subject and themes of the media'.

>>2086539
the most based comment ever.
idk if its just me, but i started playing total wars with rome and then shogun, and i just mediaval 2 completely unplayable, the controls are awful, but maybe its a skill issue on my part.

>>2087691
Medieval 2 like Rome 1 and God forgive me for mentioning it Empire have some unique mechanics that didn't translate into later games. M2 also has a lot of modding and nostalgia going for it while being an all-round solid game.

>>2087698
rome 1 is not as bad as medieval 2 imo

>>2087751
Alright? I mean no one is forcing you to play or like one over the other.

>>2086917
What exactly does ROTS actually do? From what i heard it's basically more politics, terrain and economy heavy but at the same keeps most of the base game mechanics leaving it half baked.

>>2086533
Looks cool, Steam reviews claim that the GOG version runs better so I'll give it a try

>>2087760
do M2 mods fix some of the controls ?

>>2087804
What is there to fix? The controls are one of the reason why M2 is so much better than the warscape games.

>>2087804
Sorry but I second >>2087818

>>2087630
That doesn't change that you get most units in "historic" "realistic" mods brown or grey with little colours.
Also fuck historic realism - I want my armies colour coded like in Rome I. I want simple graphics with no visual noise. Fuck I really miss Shogun I battles.

>>2087657
You missing the point. Movies are made like that to mold people who watch them. They are made dumb on purpose to make normies dumber.

>>2087951
>'fuck historic realism'
>continues to play historic vidya
why not just move to warhammer? you get big colorful trolls and giant bright heckin explosions. it seems to be all you want out of a game after all, correct?

>>2087951
>you don't know what you're talking about
>That doesn't change
NO. It definitely matters that you know what in the actual hell you're saying and not just talking out of your ass while le fake angry so take me seriously.

Attentionwhoring assclown.

>>2087776
It splits cities and fortifications/garrison so you can upgrade them separately, also markets have alternate upgrade path that actually provides food so tard AI using it all up to upgrade castles too much is a less of an issue. Religion was changed to faction affiliation, sort of like it would later work in FotS

>>2087456
I was filtered by your fetish for being waterboarded. Sorry bro

>>2086988
>less unit variety
Good honestly. The way tw games go for unit variety is bad. You should get general units that you can customise with leaders, trainings, subformations and troops. Yes I can elaborate.

>>2087956
Because I like it. And honestly no TW game was ever realistic. No amount autistic modding will change that.
>>2087963
No, u. You obviously think you know stuff but in reality you know shit. So stop huffing your own farts.

>>2087210
Even the latest Warhammer TW has almost all of those. The biggest sin is shared by all games Empire onwards, and that's the removal of collision/ballistic simulation.

>>2085924 (OP)
Which clans do you guys see survive the most in your playthroughs?

Obviouslt 9/10 times Chosokabe survive until you get there.

For me it's Takeda (no duh) and Hattori funnily enough, also Date but i guess their map positioning makes that so.

>>2085924 (OP)
>Shogun 3 when???
Never. I don't know if anyone who worked on S2 is still at CA. Even if there is a shogun 3 it will be shit because the engine is a frankenstein monster at this point.

>>2089145
Last time I played I was Mori and the final boss was Takeda who killed the other western Japan clans all the way up to Date, except they never went to war with Hojo for some reason so Hojo maintained a respectable number of provinces.
I never bothered to land on Shikoku but it was all rebels, I forget if I had anything to do with it.

>>2089145
Similar to Date, Shimazu usually do well in my experience. Also Mori for some reason.

>>2085924 (OP)
>stands in your path

>>2089384
Nobody but the most contrarian of contrarians has opinion on that game and nobody played it.

>>2089439
i played it and i basically can't go back
the battle ai is every game since medieval 1, starting with rome 1, is crippled pathetic dogshit. i'm not kidding. you can go boot up these games right now and fight custom battles and look at the ai. people say that the ai isn't as bad in shogun 2, but i've watched plenty of videos where guys sit retardedly on hills and the ai suicide charges into them and dies pathetically. that doesn't happen in shogun or medieval 1. if the ai sees you camping retardedly on the hill they will sit there camping retardedly on another hill or just straight up leave the battle and retreat.

>>2089328
>>2089305
For me i think Mori do well for some reason because of all their ships, the first time i played a western clan i got insanely fucked over because Mori kept sending massive fleets destroying my economy. So i keep having to remember to build a real navy early on.

>>2089439
Not everyone here is a zoomzoom like you sister. That said med 1 over that any day of the week and twice on sunday. By the time you reach quite literally anything better than basic ass stickpeasants you've conquered 3/4ths of the map.

>>2089439
Not everyone is either tastelet or was born yesterday. Or both.
Shofun 1 was absolute blast in the past, especially if you read and watch old Shogun and read Way of the Daimyo(still worth read).
Its still great wargame and desu I would say best TW wargame if not game. There is nothing contrarian about it.
Sure it has less bloat but better AI and AI can use most if the tools player can and cheating is minimal.
>>2089558
I would say MED I was kind of weaker than Shogun I. Less polish and map looked worse. Have some problem with recruitment and enemy army comps. More diverse and some asymmetrical factions so it have its pluses.

>>2089558
>>2089594
Game came out 25 years ago, I doubt either of you contrarian new bad, old good fucks were even born.

>>2089594
>Less polish and map looked worse.
I can't speak about gameplay balance but the map for med1 looks much better than shogun 1, with the artwork and drawings instead of just being tan colored shapes. And the campaign map gameplay in general in med 1 is much more polished, you can zoom in and out, change tax on individual provinces, save in the pre-battle screen, and probably a few more things. I do think the unit sprites in med 1 look worse through and sit a little more in an uncanny valley compared to the cuter kitsch sprites of shogun 1.

>>2089601
Nigger. I was playing it in 2000. Still play it sometimes. Its one of three best TW games if not the best.
>>2089606
Lets agree to disagree. It brought new batch of mechanics. No assassination scenes tho.

>>2089594
The only thing I'd hold against M1 or at least the only thing I remember since it has been awhile were those officer retinue armored swiss. Fuck that unit. As for shogun I realize Japan is hilly but I swear to God I still wake up in cold sweat remembering having to charge up a 70* incline in one of those spectacularly mountainous maps. Not that S2 didn't love its forests.

>>2089601
I don't actually think they're better in most regards but I do still love that paper boardgame map system they used to run with. And imagine that, I am older than 25. Eventually you'll also see it's not much of an accomplishment.

bro I love Complete Conflict Shogunate 2. "yari-awesome!", hahaha

>>2089626
Med1 have planty of some minor stuff. Like AI spamming peasants or balistas, skirmish units(esp javelins) being broken, AI not being able to deal with 3 eras worth of troops or being prone to withdrawal on strategic map.
Still, battles were really nice and AI was generally more capable in battle and on the map without any cheating(some minor buffs are practically nothing compared to modern ai cheats)

>>2089145
I almost always play Shimazu because I like katana fuckers, and in those games invariably Takeda is almost always the strongest. Date usually gets overrun early on which is a shame, as I consider their upgraded nodachi samurai to be the perfect rivals for my units.

>>2094752
Shimizu are bitchmode

>>2094756
I remember playing Shimazu in Shogun 1. It was base prepatched game were AI could build units on negative money.
I reached Kyoto on slow pace and then meet face to face massive amount of Hojo stacks. Like truly massive with each province with castle and dojo(most of them) spawning new units.
It was like Hojo tide. I have quality but not the numbers. Fun times.

>>2087403
>no visible unit upgrades to quickly identify them on the battlefield
Who the fuck looks at models? In general, but also to see the upgrades?
I didn't even know medieval 2 had visual changes for upgrades until I heard about it years later.

>>2086733
>>2086739
If you want pike and shot/gunpowder gameplay get the mod that increases the arquebusiers range to 150, its on the workshop. That little change makes them superior to both Ashigaru and Samurai bowmen, only monk bows have a chance with their 225 range. It really does gunpowder justice, idk why they gimped guns so hard when the era this game takes place in saw the widespread adaption of these weapons.

>>2086550
FotS is broken, the AI never gets rifled riflemen or artillery and if they do in the very endgame they cant use them at all. The whole game is just your armstrong guns blowing up the enemy from afar once you get the tech. Its a novelty that quickly wears off. Also it ruined multiplayer because those faggots at CA allowed FotS armies to be mixed with vanilla armies.

>>2096074
>arquebusiers range to 150
You give them 300 and they're still weaker than bows unless you're playing with any combination of the smallest unit size, kneel-fire in s2 campaign or play exclusievly defensive fortress 5 battles. Only ones that come close to bows are the Oda and Otomo ashigaru and Otomo tercios. Also big gunners.

>>2096091
No they are not lol, lying faggot

>>2096111
Who shat in your meds pal? Unless you also modded their dogshit base reload and allow all their ranks to fire they sure as hell ain't beating equivalent archers even without all the bullshit improvements they can get.

I haven't played Shogun 2 in an eternity.
Remind me how I should be building my generals through the skill trees? I don't remember which paths are good and which are trash.

>>2096114
Why not just play the game and see for yourself, shitposting faggot?

>>2096115
Hard to go wrong with night battles and stand and fight. The ashigaru buffs are probably a good idea as well.

>2096116
OK schizo, nice talk.

>>2096117
No picking those left hand side ones that speed up your tech?

>nogames faggot gets butthurt when called out
lol

>>2096118
I mean you can but I personally prefer to take academies and spam churches or ikkoikki temples. The only tech I'd rush for are roads, farms and best swordsmith.

>>2096122
>academies
Is that the "school" line of province buildings?

>>2096128
The local resource building. Like horses or lacquerware. There's quite a couple of those all over and each gives a bunch of permanent research speed for both tech types when upgraded. The AI also doesn't really prioritize recruiting upgraded units so a max swordsmith + encampment upgrade often means your veteran ashigaru have better matt than his samurai units. Or you end up with bow samurai that are also stupid good in melee.

>>2096074
>Also it ruined multiplayer because those faggots at CA allowed FotS armies to be mixed with vanilla armies.
conceptually fine, balance issue

>>2096115
>Always max the skill that increases campaign movement speed and command radius increase
>Get Stand and Fight
>Get Night Battles unless the general already starts with the trait that lets him fight night battles

>>2094756
Take that back *unsheathes katana just one inch*

>>2096155
Night batterus are not verry honorabru. Additionary night is difficurt to see in.

>>2095789
I do, how else am I supposed to see at a glance that unit has upgraded armor or attack?

>>2099284
The unit card? looking at the models is the worst possible way to get information

I was once one of the highest ranked Shogun 2 players. It all came down to my army composition

>1 mangonel
>3-4 spear cavalry
>15-16 veteran matchlock ashigaru
For a long time, almost nothing could defeat this composition, and this is why:

>Mangonel had obscene accuracy, range, and damage
>4 cav prevent flanking
>Matchlocks obscenely cheap and deadly
You force the opponent to charge into three rings of 1-rank matchlocks, it's nearly impossible for a melee force to win

It took several consecutive nerfs aimed directly at my comp to take me down

>>2099301
>The unit card?
On legendary?

>>2099305
Yes, you see unit cards before a battle
>But I need to know IN THE BATTLE
No you don't

>>2099311
>you don't actually NEED to play the battles at all
found the easy autoresolver.

>>2099316
there is no scenario when fighting the AI in which it is important to know which unit of the same type is higher veterancy than another, leave your hyperbole at the door

>>2099317
>+9 experience is nothing or stat boosts are nothing
kys easyfag

>>2099320
Well I guess the difference between us is that I didn't need that information to win

>>2087403
>>no visible unit upgrades to quickly identify them on the battlefield (med 2)
RETARD ALERT, the ranks are on the giant banners, even in Legendary
Play the game before commenting on it

>>2099320
You can see ranks on the banners retard. And don't pretend like you are zooming in to check which of the units have +1 armour and that's actually a decisive factor in the unlikely scenario you even run into a stack that has the same unit type recruited with different upgrade levels.
You just invented a problem to complain about

>>2085924 (OP)
A warring states or three kingdoms era china total war could have been so fucking good if it wasn't infested with hero slop bullshit

>>2099325
>>2099338
Can’t see stat upgrades on banner retard

>>2095789
The whole system was admittedly kinda cool but vastly overrated. Not that many units actually benefitted from it because the way it worked was it upgraded armour not by X, but up to X. So your knight units that already wore plate didn't upgrade. Mostly chaff units got alternative model wearing chainmail or something. Nowadays it would probably be a separate recruitable "heavy" or "armoured" unit or a upgrade replacement like Attila/ToB and the game sort of moved away from regional recruitment stat buffs in general but medfags choose it as the hill to die on.

>>2099340
You can't have 3 kingdoms WITHOUT the heroes

>>2095789
brainlet faggot

a few days ago i got that mood again to do my yearly shogun 2 fots campaign
abandoned it fairly soon because the AI just pissed me off
clans on the opposite side of the map will randomly declare war on you, put all their armies onto boats and sail over to fuck with you while their own unprotected homeland gets invaded
and in the meanwhile there are 4-5 1-ship stacks from more random clans swimming around your territory destroying your economy that you have to play whack a mole with
and once an AI declares on you, it will NEVER agree to peace unless totally destroyed or showered with tens of thousands of moneys
god i wish total war series had actual diplomacy and AI that acts in self-interest, not beelines to fuck the player

>>2086698
>Unfortunately for it however, blackpowder warfare is the most kino form of war invented by mankind, so it does lose to TW Napoleon.
>says this about the total war with the best pre-ww1 gunpowder warfare, including naval warfare
???

>>2099362
Skill issue

>>2087393
>no agents
>no navies
>extended year limit

>>2099365
Who the fuck runs out of time in a shogun 2 campaign?

>>2099364
>Skill issue
I already beat it multiple times
It's just not fun, it's tedious
You just gotta build several stacks of ships to essentially blockade each side of Japan as you advance on land along northwards or southwards(depending where you start with), and have spare stacks that you rotate in when one of the blockading stacks needs to go repair - because if you ever leave a patch of sea uncovered, if you ever let a single AI fleet slip through(which it will keep attempting constantly) it'll just swim around in your rear shitting on your economy at optimal max move ranges until you catch it
it's annoying, that's it

>>2099367
I never actually ran out but playing on a time limit is stressful, what's the point of that

>>2099367
I think short victory is actually kinda tight, because it gets easier once you get the ball rolling. I might have just been retarded though, o only did that like once a long time ago and why would you ever do that anyway.

>>2099369
Blockade every port and they can't build boats anymore.

>wahhh the AI is mean and attacks me a lot
Pathetic

can we just have a history total war general why does there have to be daily ragebait threads instead

>>2100101
Keep in mind it is summer.

I'd prefer a post-English Civil War, pre-WWI era game. American Civil War would be cool.

>>2100679
>American Civil War
>2 factions
nah

>>2100883
>yankees
>confederates
>border union
>french
>brits
>indians
>more indians
>the spanish

>>2100892
>massive retardation

>>2100892
you forget black slaves, Irish, Russians, Canadians, Chinese, Japanese, Ghambians, Sasquatch partisans and Poles

>>2086914
>>2086912
I'm still sad we dont get a proper pikemen in Warhammer

>>2100902
>no french canadians