Thread 2157692

>lets make a government type that is capable of rapid outward expansion
>And then make it immune to independence war or any form of internal collapse
>And then give them the richest, most developed lands on the map
>And then give them an overpowered succession type
CK3 is so shit. Just complete fantasy and uninteresting gameplay.

byzanbozos are the worst fucking kind of medievalists

>>2157692 (OP)
Opis, wrong pic, sorry

>>2157692 (OP)
Yea byzantines are op. They never collapse. CK3 devs have no concept of balance

>>2157692 (OP)
Every game I play, Byzantines get dunked on by the Khazars and/or gradually eaten away by the Abbasids.

Khazars are the real problem. IRL steppe nomads tended to have their realms fragment over time (the way Paradox portrays everyone else just because the French did it even though it's not accurate for most of medieval Europe at all) but in CK3 they actually don't fragment, ever. And because herds don't take seasonal attrition and the only way to deplete them is by spending them, they always have tens of thousands of horse mana to pull horse archers straight out of their arses.

>>2157692 (OP)
>paradox DLCs are just cheats
How new to paradox games?

>>2157692 (OP)
I think the depiction of the Byzantines in the game is good. It's just everybody around them is basically inept compared to them. It's just a matter of the fact the game is designed so that all small powers get crushed if any larger one has a causus belli which is the entire Balkans and until the Seljuks there is no real power in the Middle East after the Abbasids go. Turkic migrations into the region and Anatolia need to be far more dangerous for it to work

You could fix at least half the problems in all Paradox games by introducing a "distance from capital" penalty.

>>2158420
They'll add an iberian struggle esque mechanic to Anatolia.

>>2158495
The struggle shit is so awkward and bloaty. I really don't like it.

>>2158495
I think the game would work better with large scale and invisible struggles. Which is what I think they are doing with the Silk Road. The Turkic Migrations as they happen in game are a massive nothing which results in third of the new independent Arab and Iranian rulers to get replaced but that's about it. If there was a large scale struggle from Anatolia to Northern India which was invisible to the player and didn't add retarded bonuses or conditions I think it would work better. Otherwise I'll just have to live with historical invasions doing it for me

>>2158441
B-B-BUT HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BLOB THE MAP AND WIN EVERY TIME THE SAME WAY WITH EVERY TAG?????????????????????/

>>2158441
I'm pretty sure EU4 has something like that but it's effects are so minor that it may as well not exist and most people don't know it exists.

>>2157854
>make it immune to independence war or any form of internal collapse
>give them an overpowered succession type

>>2158535
Yeah it's definitely a modifier on certain things. It's been long enough since I played that I don't remember where it's applied, but it's visible enough to anyone looking at their numbers.

>>2158535
No, all it's got is a limit on how far away you can core provinces.

>>2157692 (OP)
In case you want to balance it out a bit, there are mods who correct this to an extent i.e reenabling dissolution and independence wars and prohibiting governors from engaging in expansionist wars.
The system itself is OP as fuck, but Paradox doesn't want to balance it themselves because they are afraid of upsetting players power fantasies.
Since the East Asia expansion will make most governments there an offshoot of administrative, they announced some indirect balancing mechanisms, like the liege not immediatly being called in a war if a vassal/governor is attacked. Will be interesting to see if this will have any effect.

>>2157692 (OP)
You also described both Clans and Tribal (if you have a brain and roll with tanistry or such)

>>2158620
That's not the point. Even feudal will become OP once the player progreses their cultures innovations to a certain point and when their dynasty has a few legacies unlocked.
The AI doesn't play optimally, thus Clan and Tribal governments will collapse. Admin governments can't collapse. Admin governments, especially Byzantium, will always blob hard with the player being effectively the only one who can do something about it.
That's why Admin is arguably the worst government form right now in the game. It's OP for the player and it sucks to play against if it's AI.

>>2158620
Independence factions can still be formed for Clan and Feudal governments
It is mechanically impossible for administrative governments to collapse. It is literally a government immune to collapse on a mechanical level

CK3 is so shit but I still find myself getting the urge to play it once every 6 months

>>2158495
>>2158498
the "struggle" mechanics would fit better in a game where you're not 2-3 wars from basically finishing the reconquista.

>>2158498
>The struggle shit is so awkward and bloaty.
This post reminds me of the time I raped your mom.

>>2157692 (OP)
>And then make it immune to independence war or any form of internal collapse
Didn’t they change that and then are changing it more as well? Parts on the edgeswill be able to break off or something like that.

>>2160580
Bodied that freak.

>>2160636

It's going to change so that the top liege no longer gets involved in every border war by default, so surrounding nations can eat away piece by piece.

Though also, being fairly resilient against total collapse was kind of the point of administrative government anyways.

>>2160741
Can Feudal or other governments under an Administrative liege still move for independence until they get turned admin as well?

>>2159813
I think CK3 has some really fun mechanics. I despise the full package.

>>2160618
tbqh stress feels like it should be split into two separate mechanics/meters because stress is kind of used to penalize the player from acting out of character, but also used when bad things happen, so it has to have ways of decreasing it (so that the bad thing RNG doesn't just end your game) and that means players can use the "decrease consequences of bad thing" stuff to get around the "acting out of character" limitations

like there'd be a "stress" stat which goes up when bad stuff happens (like friends dying, plots failing, etc) that you relieve by doing activities and such

and then there'd be some kind of "character break" meter that you can only burn X amount per lifetime on out-of-character actions and once you've used it up you can no longer take any action which is out of character for your current dude, so generally you'd have to behave as your character would, but there's a finite number of times where if you REALLY need to get something done that your character wouldn't do, you can break character and do it

>>2158535
No it doesn't.
EU5 has it.

>>2157768
Amen brother.

>>2161087
they also just need to be less ballbusty about what is "in character" for a medieval ruler. The idea that a 12th century king would balk at executing or attainting a traitor or someone who murdered a family member because he's just or compassionate or content is completely ludicrous

>>2158554
>>2161092
You are wrong. Distance from capital affects the cost of state maintenance.
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/States_and_territories#State_maintenance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV5ErbrsIVA&t=739s

But as >>2158535 said, its effects are so minor and obscure it may as well not exist. Hence why you were both so confidently wrong about it.

>>2161132
I'm pretty sure that wasn't actually a thing when I last played.

>>2158495
they already did the byzantines dlc, they're not touching the region again

>>2160788

Technically yes, but the first thing you'd want to do is ask your vassal to adopt Admin government anyways, and assuming they joined peacefully it's basically something you don't have to worry about.

>>2161125
I always kind of thought of the personality traits as being along the lines of like "so Gluttonous/Compassionate/Shy that it gets in the way of otherwise normal functioning." Sometimes that doesn't make for very effective kings. Honestly I wish it was stricter sometimes.

>>2157768
>sanpaku empire
Their art sucks too, never understood the artaboos

The triggers for a realm starting with high partition succession law is fucking broken. It requires you to have the heraldry innovation (from the high medieval era) WITHOUT having the hereditary rule innovation (from the early medieval era). This means that for the 1178 startdate, EVERYONE has confederate partition unless otherwise defined.
Who has confederate partition in 1178? Why, the king of England, the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, the king of Poland, the king of Sicily, the king of Denmark, the king of Sweden, the king of Jerusalem, you get the picture, EVERYONE, kings and dukes alike.

>>2157692 (OP)
Crusader kings as a genre is just terrible at balancing things, the state CK2 was left in means that if you start playing after 1066 you got a 99% of the whole middle east turning catholic because none can survive all of christendom joining a war to take their shit.
I think the genre tries to be a very open RPG which gives you increasingly OP perks as you level up but unlike Skyrim every single NPC can and will use the insane abilities the player has access to.

>>2157692 (OP)
I mean, historically, their lands were stupid rich.
However, they had to spend like 80% of their resources on fortifying their Arab border.

>>2163533
>99% of the whole middle east turning catholic
this is precisely why ck3 made fervor a thing

>>2161745
Has someone made a HIP equivalent mod for CK3 already?

>>2163533
I don't know what it's up with Ashari never declaring Jihads even when they are available to them.

Working on adding some semi-historical railroading event-chains, meant to get things on track for the first 10 or so years; starting with the Flanders fiasco. What are people's opinions regarding event writing like picrel?
>>2165436
No, the game isn't worth it.

>>2161132
3k hours and still discovering more useless mechanics

>>2165446
The Caliph can only declare jihads against bordering realms following an evil faith and in 1066 he is a vassal sandwiched between muslims rulers. Double problem in 867 since in order for the jihad era to fire there are a few triggers like a muslim holy site being captured or a successful Catholic crusade, where assuming the caliph survives the intermezzo long enough to not be exiled to a county in Armenia he might eventually declare a jihad. Outside of player intervention they will realistically never happen unless you want to wait for centuries.

>>2157768
this, but i love andalus so I can't really throw stones in glass houses when being obsessed over a doomed culture.

>>2166910
Why is that designed so?
Pope can declare crusades to Mongolia even if he is landless.

>>2167087
Alex has made it so and you will play it.

>>2167200
I thought Henrik was the lead designer for CK3

>>2161092
For now. After release the "pros" on YouTube will demand it be nerfed into irrelevance so they can blob easily.

>>2157768
byzantium would still be around today if it wasn't chr*stian because they would have just genocided the fucking bulgarians and turks and all the other spastic tribes

been out for a while, have there been any good mods for landless stuff?

>>2171187
princes of darkness has some good stuff for landless

>>2161338
*all the art that's left of them

most of it was destroyed and pillaged by the crusaders.

>>2158236
>And because herds don't take seasonal attrition and the only way to deplete them is by spending them, they always have tens of thousands of horse mana to pull horse archers straight out of their arses.

Imagine if CK3 had even a rudimentary pop system (think of Imperator:Rome perhaps) and the main difference between feudal realms and hordes is that former can mobilize 2% of its population as levies at maximum, while the almost the entire adult male population of the latter is made out of full-time horse archers.

>>2165535
An EU4 YouTuber hired an "EU4 tutor" from Fiverr as a joke and ended up learning that the movement arrow thing progress indicator can be used to figure out how close an unit is to a movement lock (it has a line in the middle.)

I guess it could be useful in a really tense micro game.

>>2173709
>the movement arrow thing progress indicator can be used to figure out how close an unit is to a movement lock (it has a line in the middle.)
Isn't that EU4 warfare 101? It's basic to stackwipe the AI, avoid useless movements and "feint" the AI. Guess it should be even more important in multiplayer if you fancy that stuff.

>>2173744
Probably, but EU4 is the kind of game where "101" is close to literally being one-hundred-and-one things you need to know. I'd assume the army movement progress indicator could be something that can easily get "lost in the sauce", especially since you can seemingly master the basic gameplay loop, despite not paying attention to that specifically.

>>2173702
I am getting the extended timeline mod for EUV as soon as it fucking releases so I don't have to deal with the arcady, mobile-tier shitfests that are ck3 and vic3.

>>2157692 (OP)
>Content pack for region X makes region X OP
... so how new to PDX games are you, exactly?
I thought people already learned this 10 years ago with CK2

>>2173702
>muh pop system
When faggots like you will finally grasp the basic concept that a) POPs makes thing WORSE and MORE unbalance and b) you can pull that off without pops c) using pre-existing mechanics.
PDX doesn't care, because the point is having easily accessible games. Modders meanwhile are always trying to reinvent the wheel, rather than use shit that the game already support

This game has development rating that DOES FUCK ALL.
This game has mechanics for decreasing development of a target province.
This game has in-game measurement of range from point of origin that DOES FUCK ALL
This game has modifiers to levy and retinue rebuild.
This game has mechanics for affecting income via development (that's literally all it does)
You can literally cobble all of this together and have the same fucking effect as you desire, WITHOUT introducing any new mechanics nor bloating the game, sing script that is in the game.
But hey, let's try to force the game to have pops, because um.... um... pops gonna fix it, ok?

>>2173702
>>2173824
And in case you still didn't get it:
It is entirely possible to take existing CK3 mechanics and cobble them together to make loss of levies hit your economy in the nuts and also make it less effective to both rebuild them and recruit/refill retinues, along with having wars cause long-lasting consequences via depopulation and devastation.
All of which might still factor in unique nomad mechanics, WITHOUT them relying on mana.
It's all within the script of the game since the Norse DLC came out way back when.

>>2173709
How can you even miss that? It's a pretty obvious animation.

>>2157692 (OP)
Stems from vassals being braindead and internal political system being made for china and japan exclusively

If only vassals actively tried to compete with the player or each other and there has been a political party/league system.....

4 more years worth of DLCs and MAYBE we will see that

>>2170661
When Rome was still pagan they not only generally preferred integrating barbarian tribes to genociding them, they brought Jews into Europe via Alexandria

>>2170661
Rome tried for three centuries and failed so fake.

>>2173827
>>2173824
Lol retard

>>2173891
Sure, but they were willing to annihilate the tribes who refused to be integrated, and also they were way better at integrating them by using economic incentives instead of prattling on about muh lord and savior. Incidentally the same way the muslims rapidly assimilated Egypt et al into speaking arabic and all that. The roman christians were fine at religious conversion but really really fucking bad at cultural assimilation, the slavic alphabet stands as testament to that, 1500 years later

>>2174295
>they were willing to annihilate the tribes who refused to be integrated
Imagine the world if Rome actually exterminated every single G*rmanoid. Legit interplanetary utopia.

>>2174621
Germanic tribes weren't sedentary like Gauls. Instead of having some form of societal/governing structure to take over, Romans would've needed to build one from scratch.

>>2174621
This but jews instead

>>2174632
Jews wouldn't even be a problem if wasn't for the Germanics, specially the Anglos. Truly the root of all evil.

>>2173702
Pop system would also be very important for the Muslim slave trade. The reliance on slavery was immense.
Like the Umayyads of Spain relied on imported slaves from the Balkans to fight for them.

Influence/Merit are both just Prestige.
Provisions/Herd/Treasury are all just Gold.
Frankly, I'm amazed that Mandala governments just use regular ass Piety instead of some new Karma or Sanctity resource.

>>2167464
sadly this, I already found youtubers crying because EUV is too much simulative and they can't do *click* *click* *click* to gain instant bonus

>>2158495
I don't think they will add another struggle in the middle East
The Persian struggle is already a huge slog+ the overlap would be annoying

>>2157692 (OP)
this is probably player's blob you took from reddit
never seen it in my game
what i'd like to know is how to destroy the ahistorical khazarian blob as quickly as possible

>>2158545
if you applied the logic of CK to the US, then there would be no gameover unless all your family died, you would just revert to your barony you could hold in perpetuity if you lost the election.

>>2163533
not if you're a shattered start pagan chad
>what's that, moral authority is 0?
>christ is king dude, meek shall inherit the world
>bye thanks for these blot cattle

>>2178504
>pagan realms have good cbs but start small and fractured compared to bigger catholic realms that love to join defensive holy wars
>pagans become overpowered in the gamemode where everybody starts as a opm
crazy

>>2165446
What can I say, religion of peace

>>2174621
>>2174644
latinx moment

>>2158441
I feel like in the hands of Paradox this could be another feature that completely fucks runs of regular players while excel spreadsheet players will barely notice it.
CK3 has the perfect base for simulating internal issues with overextension and loyalty but it feels like this part of the game is underutilized.

>>2163533
I've literally never seen that happen. Crusades normally succeed, but in 1066 the seljuks are so dominant that they completely mogg the byzzies and half the time the 4th crusade happens and they end up completely collapsed
Even when the catholics win more often than not the eventual crusader state completely explodes as it gets holy warred to death.

The main thing that annoys me about crusader kings is that the randomisation on the mongols/aztecs just doesn't fucking work. If you set it to "random", it always happens within 50 years of either 1000 or 100 years after game start rather than actually being a random time between 769 and 1453.

>>2157692 (OP)
its vassal mechanics are still such that if a duke in germany inherits the kingdom of Jerusalem the HRE will proceed to invade Jerusalem. as if any of that would have happened in real life. CK3 fails at the one fucking thing it is ACTUALLY FOR. simulating feudalism

>>2188834
yep. And in that scenario Jerusalem will stay a permanent part of HRE until the end of the game regardless if another house inherits it.

>>2188834
actually CK3 is a sex themed RPG game

>>2157692 (OP)
>start game
>look over at byzantine
>tributary of steppeniggers yet again
>borders slowly being chipped away by sandniggers yet again
what's the problem

Just make a second war at the start in 1066 that makes it so rum is created. Doesn't seem that hard

>>2189285
nomads, they are the biggest problem of the game now

>>2157692 (OP)
Administrative realms ruined my last game.
I had a game where I had the idea where i'd start as a norse raider, form a dynasty of many kingdoms, reform to christian and never go beyond king rank, letting gavelkind divide my lands however it may every time a character died.
The HRE went admin, and between me and Byzanitum we carved the world in three. The thing is, kingdoms ruled by AI members of my dynasty would randomly get gobbled up by the HRE. That's how my dynasty lost Denmark, Poland, Sweden, Latvia, Lithuania and Bjarmland. Worse, the titles would just dissolve and I wouldn't be able to war for them back, even if was able to win a war against the HRE who controlled everything from France to Russia.
My dream of crusading was crushed by super Byzantium, who after a couple of conquerer emps absolutely dominated Arabia, meaning there was no meaningful muslim resistance in the holy land.

They were just too fucking stable, never seeming to lose land and it being impossible for vassals to go independent or for them to dissolve.
This was before the steppe dlc, so maybe its fixed now.

>>2170661
If you think Christians don't genocide people, you are an utter retard. And I ain't even talking bout the Americas.

>>2194537
ok

>>2189265
It ironically is. I mostly thinking about which women I fuck in the game, spreading genetics into different ethnicities

so what's the best way to get Japanese concubines starting in Europe

>>2195000
Sail there to raid.

>>2195000
Follwo this one, quick step:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZLeyhRxhT4

>>2195000
Be yourself.

In my CK2 games the Byzantine Empire almost always collapses because of civil wars (and invasions from the east)

By collapse I don't mean completely disappearing as I have never seen this happen, it just always shrinks to a few small provinces in the balkans and becomes practically irrelevant

Byzantine Empire = False
Eastern Roman Empire = True

>>2195191
I wish the Byzantium Empire (also known as the Eastern Roman Empire) would collapse in my games.

>>2157692 (OP)
I'm a historylet, but wasn't the Byzantine nobility pretty unruly?

>>2195681
They continued the old Roman tradition of fighting endless civil wars until they were weak enough to be invaded by their neighbors that they once ruled

>>2195191
Yeah CK2 correctly models how there's a pretender war or other civil war every weekend. This keeps greece's manpower never filled. But that's also indicative of a core problem of CK3 how its a easy slop game for normies so manpower recharges from 0 in a month so any sort of bad event doesnt really weaken countries so opportunities of exploitation dont really happen so every single war is just bigger blob wins

>>2195673
What happened to your character?

>>2196766
In CK3 there are constant massive civil wars to reinstate the emperor who was overthrown in the previous massive civil war, and they have no effect on the stability of the empire whatsoever.

you can't tell me this isn't a porn game. what should i do with her chat?

>>2195673
this screenhot singlehandeld killed my interest of trying the new DLC