Is GFE ethical?

>>101326869 (OP)
All female vtubers should be obligated by law to become GFE.

What a faggot lmao

>>101326869 (OP)
Was that Aster?...

>>101326869 (OP)
Ethical is subjective. If people are willing to sell it, and people are willing to buy it, and it's not against the law, then there's no problem. If you don't enjoy GFE then don't watch it. Not everything in life is going to subscribe to your own personal beliefs, because different people are different, and that's ok.

https://warosu.org/vt/image/vt18Cyt1ow1CkfmPtycCpw

>>101326869 (OP)
It's not, but it's legal.

>>101326869 (OP)
based. keep that girl in line.

>>101326869 (OP)
He jumped to Nimi

>>101326869 (OP)
This might be the saddest a vtubers ever gone out

>>101327172
cringe libertarian spotted

GFE is extremely evil

>>101327172
>morality is when it's legal
Are you fucking retarded?

>>101328219
Only if it isn't maintained.

>>101328457
I'd go further to say that morality is if there's supply and command, and that's it.

>>101326869 (OP)
No.

>>101328591
The one on the left looks like she loves anal sex

>>101329171
I can confirm she enjoyed and that is the case.

>>101326869 (OP)
Reminder that this faggot is, and was, one of Alekirser's top paypigs when he posted that comment.

>pandering to paypigs
Who wouldnt do this anon?

>>101326869 (OP)
Imagine being one of her simp cucks when this guy owns her this much kek

>>101329171
Join us >>101303182

>>101326869 (OP)
kill yourself fdund

>>101330020
He's not around anymore. Nimi's success pushed him over the edge.

>>101326869 (OP)
GFE is essential. Not only because I enjoy it, but because it filters out normalfags
>>101327118
fpbp

>>101327118
All female streamers should be subject to extra tax.

>>101327172
>Ethical is subjective
No, it isn’t. Some things are objectively right and some things are objectively wrong. Moral relativism is destroying the west

>>101329280
can you blame him?
that sex dragon is too powerful

who's this pillowdear and why do I keep seeing the name even though I avoid GFE

>>101330069
I wish

>>101330778
Just an EN indie that attracted faunaschizos because she does ASMR and sounds a little bit like Fauna/Nimi.

>>101326869 (OP)
Honestly I don't even see the point of watching a vtuber that is NOT GFE. These girls are all boring as hell, what do they have to offer if they're not pretending to be my gf? I only watch my oshi because she tells me she loves me and pretends to be my gf, if she stopped doing that I'd drop her in a heartbeat

>>101326869 (OP)
Only with Remilia Nephys.

>>101328921
>supply and command

You almost had it

>>101330870
based realist

>>101326869 (OP)
gfe vtubers will do this and then do a bf reveal 5 years later and tell you to stop being parasocial.

>>101330870
>faggots misusing oshi again

>>101326869 (OP)
This all seems almost mocking

>>101331968
For context, it was the first time she had a collab and it was with a girl.

>>101326869 (OP)
Not everything in life has to be ethical.

>>101332656
Jesus christ
Pillow is such a whore

>>101332977
I guess, I don't know her, but alcohol, the whole alcohol industry, and consuming alcohol is not ethical either. There is a lot of stuff that is not ethical, why obsess over one thing?

>>101328921
That's not further, that's a completely different argument.

>women are broken
OKAY BITCH, WHO ENABLED WOMEN
that's right, retarded MEN enable women

>>101326869 (OP)
If a cute woman isn't there to cater to me, what the fuck is her purpose? I can choose someone else much more charismatic and actually entertaining from an oversaturated pool if I wanted to watch a regular streamer

More like paypal

>>101327118
what a world that would be

>>101326869 (OP)
No

>>101330778
She is the only GFE who manages to be,
>Leaning heavily on kawaii
>Not overtly kinky/ perverted
>Acting extremely nice and gentle
>Is not a menhera (IMPORTANT)
All at the same time.

>>101326869 (OP)
ethics are for fags

>>101333478
Stop victim blaming

>>101332282
I really wonder how pathetic these women must find their fans. Maybe they're nicer people than me and just feel sorry for them. I just feel deeply embarrassed for them

>>101332282
>>101336652
you think sher made that serious? I read it as in she's pissing all over him for being a fag.

>>101333162
You see anon that faggot you're replying to is a homobeggar they hate women that cater to male fans exclusively and don't collab with male vtubers.

>>101336652
>>101336891
She was very new to vtubing/streaming and it was the first time her fans reacted negatively to something she did. Pillow was also like 19 or 20 at the time. To make it worse for her, Novemberfag was a paypig mod so she really felt like she fucked up when in reality she literally did nothing wrong. Just a female collab and couldn't give her fans her full attention for once and this is how they publicly reacted. I think she kicked that November guy out and he ended up supporting some whoretuber.

>>101326869 (OP)
The only victims of GFE are retarded men, so I see no issue with it.

is bait and strawmanning ethical ?

>>101337603
>you're retarded if you want and expect women to be nice

>>101338645
>the viewer is an innocent baby who has no control over his life, bears no fault for any action that they take, and has no choice in how they use their time and money

i don't really get the gfe thing, i don't know how you can compartmentalize being an individual vs the collective she's making the videos for. the feelings the guys feel while listening are real, but it's an intimacy that they can't even participate in.

>>101327474
I've seen some real desperate indies pandering to their superchatters

>>101326869 (OP)
GFE is part of life. It's hard not to abuse it, and it can be really fucked up and evil, but you also can't avoid it. You'll be happier if you just don't think about it or talk about it.

>>101339097
Parasocialism. The term GFE derives from literal whores anyway so what I don't get is how something that started as an experience given to men who had full knowledge a girl was sleeping with other men turned into unicornism and hating girls who dare to ak owledge men exist or who even collab with another girl in this sphere.

>>101326869 (OP)
On the rest of the internet, a "romance scam" is an actual crime where people use fake online identities to exploit victims' emotions for financial gain. Here it's just called GFE.

Incidental GFE I don't really care about or even just playful banter or RPish stuff with the audience sometimes, but ones who are like 100% dedicated to it as their whole shtick like how Rushia was, yeah I find that real fucking bold and not in a good way.

>>101342913
I don't think it should be considered a romance scam. I'm not a big fan of GFE but our economic system works under the idea that people are responsible for making their own intelligent purchases, dumping their paycheck on a streamer that talks sweet to them isn't an intelligent purchase but it is presented as an honest one. Chuubas do not pretend that they're going to visit, that this one viewer who sent a lot of money is going to end up marrying her. What the viewer is sending a lot of money for is the attention and pretending that the streamer cares about the viewer for more than the money, both of which are true. You can give money and get those things, that's the service.

>>101330870
There's no good gfe chuuba though

I consent to being lied to by gfe streamers.

If it is, then non-GFE chuuba enjoyers are also evil
Ethics don't rely solely on the perpetrator, it applies to everyone as they exist in society and how the operate in tandem with the ongoing actions as they're aware of it
If GFE is wrong, then sure you could say the chuuba is evil, but what about every man and woman who sees through it but does nothing about it?
If you see someone exploited, but say nothing to them, don't help them, you're ignoring evil
Sure you didn't cause the situation, but to see a wrong occur and do nothing, you're also evil to some extent
The argument "it doesn't concern me/it's their fault" is extremely evil, almost as evil as GFE would be in this hypothetical, because you've given yourself justification to ignore everything when convenient for you


I say all that to say GFE isn't evil
If it was then the logic you would need to follow to entertain that idea necessitates certain principles and ideologies that end up either contradicting yourself, or would stipulate things you don't actually believe

>>101342913
No reasonable person would assume a YouTube ASMR video constitutes an actual romantic relationship.

>>101345508
No, you don't understand! I've been subbed to her for ten months and I've donated over a grand in superchats, she really truly loves me, she said so herself!

>>101339097
it's intentional cognitive dissonance. some men have given up on finding a partner they'd be happy with in real life so they try very hard to make girls on the internet fill in the gap instead. I don't think a majority of them genuinely consider the girl to be their girlfriend, they just want someone to play the role.

>>101326869 (OP)
is this guy a giga whale or something?

Anyone that falls to the GFE scam deserves to be exploited, be smart

>>101345949
Easily said than done

I don't get the mentality some whales have that they have every right to bully a vtuber for any reason.
You don't like what you see then find someone else, going nuclear on your oshi because she did something just makes you look bad.

>>101348891
i'm a big holopro collab beggar and even i get that if you upload yandere asmr on your channel you're basically chaining yourself to whales unless you have another job
asmr has become such a huge bastardization from satisfying sounds and tingly feelings

>>101327172
Quit that bullshit faggot, they can literally kill people with GFE.

>>101326869 (OP)
that papa loser is the biggest fucking faggot I've ever seen, and that's saying something round these parts

>>101337174
>I think she kicked that November guy ou
proof?

>>101339097
This is something I dealt with when I was new to all of this. I initially felt a strong connection through her ASMR which is how I discovered her. I checked out some of her livestreams and it was weird being referred to as part of a mascot group, kind of depersonalized the initial experience. I saw a guy donate a lot and it caused a few more of her regulars to also donate. I got the sense that they felt pressured to though. A lot of them have the streamlabs leaderboard thing where tippers are ranked for the month kind of gamifying donating. It probably causes them to give beyond their means because of comparison and feeling inadequate if they don't.

You realize that even the whales don't have some close connection with her outside of being recognized for giving money, paying for art commissions/skebs, and time spent in her chat, instantly replying to all her tweets, etc. They are performing just as much as she is while probably suffering inside as she gets rewarded with money and affection every day. Maybe they are happy though, I don't know. It was depressing for me so I could just be projecting, maybe it gives them purpose.

surprised there is not a gfe trauma dump general

It's meant to extract money from those who are not being reasonable. Giving the poison to those ready to destroy themselves.

>>101327395
what a whore

>>101326869 (OP)
If you have ever wondered what your GFE chuuba truly thinks about you, watch that 8 mins leaked chat from Twisty.

All GFE chuubas despise their audience. They have to; the mere act of offering GFE to men is disrespectful and ill-intended.

It's short term satisfaction for long term indignity. It's not too late to change your ways.

>>101327395
nah he’s just a whore, once saw a thread with screenshots of this fag simping to different chuubas

>>101345845
>>101337174

>>101326869 (OP)

>>101336203
I'm sold. But I need know does the mask slip often?

>>101356548
No. If anything her biggest flaw is being too sweet and perfect, for it can make you feel uncomfortable and you feel like you're waiting for the inevitable yab. Could still happen but up until this point she's clean. Also I have no idea why that anon said she isn't menhera. She frequently trauma dumps about her parents and upbringing and likes to stab things.

>>101356548
She has a talent for knowing what men want to hear.
I wonder if she's sad that her channel isn't blowing up despite all the effort she puts in it.

>>101356776
Having above 400 average CCV as a YouTube only indie is pretty good. I think only the ex-corpos, politics/drama vtubers, and Peo are the only EN focused YouTube indies that get a higher CCV than her. Although I admit I'm not super familiar with the YouTube indie scene.

>>101356776
I think it's two things: strong ASMR image and obsessed fans. She's making an effort to reduce the ASMR image such as experimenting with more traditional content and dropping ASMR from her PillowdearASMR name. Her fans are very supportive and loyal but as someone new looking in, it's probably off-putting. Throw in the groomcord and paypigs and it's hard for someone new to justify the effort of getting invested for you also need to learn about the community and hope they welcome you. I don't really know how she can tackle that. Dropping the discord would help but they'll go schizo.

Wow this thread is full of faggots, women and trannies.

gfe is just whoring but the bitch copes by saying shes not a whore because she doesnt do sexual stuff
lol lmao

>>101345130
What if I’m blind?

>>101343584
They do though
Just in DMs

gfe is only "unethical" if you're retarded or poor
seriously, find a random 1view or 2view doing gfe. throw some money at them, and then go in their DMs and guilt trip them into being your discord kitten
ITS THAT FUCKING EASY, these girls are all super dumb, you don't even have to spend that much, $100 do the trick most of the time

>>101345130
So, child labor is not evil because we all own smartphones and look the other way?

>>101359186
They’re all also third worlders and look like a foot if they’re that easy

>>101359688
nah, latino girls are thin and pretty unlike american slop

>>101326869 (OP)
I guess it ain't when you're Yuko Yurei.

>>101326869 (OP)
It's not, but >>101327118
Otherwise what's the point?

>>101359688
Jokes' on you, I'm into feet

>>101356776
She doesn't care. Pillow is a good girl that still regularly collabs with her small corpo/indie friends instead of dumping them for clout by collabing with only big liggers.

>>101354186
Whores will be whores

>>101326869 (OP)
Well, Rushia was praised for being the highest earning Holo after Coco, so I suppose yes?

>>101359675


it's actually extremely evil how the Longhouse artificially retards human flourishing by suspending people in two decades or more of arrested development in their child gulag system
the only reason they banned 'child labour' besides the fact that they hate all forms of capital in general and want people to be poor is because they didn't want anyone else getting in on their captive audience - including and especially the family/local community itself

>>101348891
they dropped enough money to keep the lights on, they get to dictate the terms (as far as they can get away with without hindering the vtuber's work as a whole). you can't just "find someone else" after dedicating a bunch of time and money to support a vtuber. actually, I think a vtuber should be compelled to refund the donated money and give a public apology for going against the wishes of the dedicated supporters that they rely on

>>101348891
It's a sort of balancing act. Should you have the right to express feedback to someone you've supported and followed for years? That only seems fair. Do you have a right to do harassment campaigns and become a schizo? No.
But sometimes, the first gets conflated with the latter.
A message on some content saying "This isn't really what I'm here for, and I didn't enjoy it" isn't bullying, even if it might make the vtuber in question deeply uncomfortable. It might be pathetic, but it's not bullying. But writing that message 2,000 times for the next 2 years 18 hours a day is obviously deeply wrong.
The discourse on this topic runs the risk of arriving at a sort of conclusion that vtubers are owed unconditional positive regard, echo-chambers of positive feedback, and support no matter what they do. Which are all basically absurd conclusions.

That said, of course, the original dude in the above image absolutely seems pathetic, and it's similarly pathetic to see the vtuber grovel. But patheticness != bullying.

>>101330187
There's no such thing as objective morality unless you are god.
Morality is LITERALLY a social construct.
Retard.

>>101327172
based libertarian spotted
>>101330187
it's not moral relativism destroying the west, it's progressivism which is a strict concrete ideology with its own stated rigid worldview and prescriptive morals. Moral relativism is just the belief/observation that there is no proven objective morality and that competing different moral systems exist that are all man-made.

>Some things are objectively right and some things are objectively wrong
there are too many different conflicting moral systems to believe that this is really true. Aztecs thought it was morally good to cut people's hearts out and eat them, Canaanites thought it was morally good to burn their own newborn babies to death, current year britbongs just voted to also make it legal to kill babies, Indians right now think rape and cannibalism is ok and that eating cow shit is sacred, muslims think cutting off their daughters clitoruses is a moral imperative, jews think everybody else doesn't even count as a human being and that eating foreskins is cool, Christians think their personal responsibility can be taken away by a guy getting tortured to death and metaphorically feasting on his flesh and blood and on it goes. Even theft isn't something all humans agree is morally wrong.

People used to believe that all humans are the same and innately have the same morals and then they discovered other groups of people that radically different who really don't have the same morals as them. Liberalism was an extropolation of the belief that all people are the same with the same basic morality (this was borne out of Christianity 'all men made in God's image') (incorrect) and current progressivism is a warped further extrapolated version of this (with Marxist dialectic/historical analysis cobbled onto it) attempting to enforce an objective morality on everyone based around power/oppression dynamics (retarded). This is what is destroying the west.

The west is being destroyed by too much empathy and morality is a spook.
>>101351191
skill issue