whatever happened to women being against being objectified as sex objects and muh misogyny before the era of vtubing?
I thought that was a whole thing

>>103077543 (OP)
>It's an "Anon learns demographics aren't a monolith" episode

>>103077543 (OP)
It's one really obnoxious wing of tumblr feminism that doesn't speak for the rest. The only feminists who are worth listening to are the scientific socialist ones.

>>103077543 (OP)
Nobody is actually upset at women being "objectified" whatever that means.

Old and/or ugly women get mad at men for pining for young busty women.

Hot women also get upset at ugly men for lusting over them and talking to them. They want to be lusted over but only by Chad.

Both groups are ok with pretending to be a hot anime girl to take money away from lonely men.

>>103077752
oh hi Nimischizo

>>103077543 (OP)
Same thing with the you can't call yourself Japanese names if you're not Japanese thing

>>103077543 (OP)
well, the world moved on and now we have objectification going both ways, that's why so many guys go to the gym and have eating disorders and incels are a thing and everyone dreads using dating apps

my actual hope about this is that maybe vtubing could become a separate space were people aren't so obsessed with sex

>>103077800
that anon isn't wrong. Women can pretend all they want but they only care about gigachad cocks, and proliferate our nerd hobbies to farm us for money and to feel better about themselves

>>103077800
I didn't even mention Nimi. Who's the schizo?

>>103078038
there was a chance for something different, a world where beauty standards weren't so hegemonic and people were incentivized not to be superficial. but you insisted you wanted big boobs in videogames and no ugly women. this is exactly what you asked for

>>103077994
>my actual hope about this is that maybe vtubing could become a separate space were people aren't so obsessed with sex
lmao

>>103077543 (OP)
As an anon who has taken a couple classes in feminist thought, I can reassure you that feminists are anything but united on the topic of sexuality. They range from people who say that prostitution is morally empowering and should be seen as a legitimate trade, to people who say that porn is hate speech against women. Lately the former have gained the upper hand, although by now, "Feminism" is so diffuse that the term is, well, meaningless. To put it more bluntly, there is no consensus on your question.

>>103078225
I know, and I accept this world. But can we finally drop the charades and accept that relationships between men and women are mostly transactional?

>>103077543 (OP)
women dont say what they mean, it's part of a form of social warfare they have going on that us guys dont understand easily. anyone who steps out of line, being better in any way is bullied, then everyone has to violently agree to any talking point.
They will
>rate themselves the same for attractiveness
>Bully the best player on a sports team
>Have the fat girl play interception when dating as a group.
and alot more shit, like the objectification lines you've brought up.
Alot of the bitches that went along it, didn't believe it. vtubing allowed some of them to do it anonymously to a degree and avoid the GSR(gossip, shaming, rallying) social conflict.Most of them where failures at it, or fatigued at it going on without restraints a healthy society would have to regulate it. Vtubing provided a even playing field, anime girl models really are equally beautifull to differing audiences, but GSR still remains.
The censorship and anti lewdtuber policies from streaming sites are made by women at the sites who dont like it. They pushed the objectivism line in the past and are doing it again.

>>103078305 (Me)
Also, generally the serious, properly educated feminists who are versed in the movement's intellectual history don't become vtubers. The less ideologically consistent tumblr feminists might become 2view now and then, but that's about it, and I refuse to elevate some blue haired nobody on tumblr to the same level of ideological authority as Gloria Steinem to speak for her/xir movement. I somehow doubt that any of the chuubas are subscribed to Ms. Magazine or ever heard the word "intersectionality." I mean, seriously, can you imagine Dokibird or Gigi having the patience to even read Betty Friedan's Feminine Mystique?

>>103078225
>but you insisted you wanted big boobs in videogames
I wanted more bare feet, actually. Also story reasons and gameplay mechanics for the bare feet.

>>103078351
They're mostly transactional under capitalism. A better world is possible under socialism.

>>103078260
NTA but the only real way i see this working is maybe some hyun's-dojo-esque lorefagging thing with the characters being self-inserts instead of only OC's and where there is one consistent canon instead of whatever individual creators like the most or whoever has the coolest fight animation at the time

I like rape!

>>103077543 (OP)
women aren’t a monolith?

>>103078398
Please say that you mean in terms of popularity and not in terms of credibility. Steinem was a literal CIA spook. https://uscpublicdiplomacy.org/blog/feminist-was-spy

>>103077543 (OP)
anon it was 10 years ago... They are all 25 now and probably married

>>103077994
>my actual hope about this is that maybe vtubing could become a separate space were people aren't so obsessed with sex
you cant get people to stop breathing, even the victorians had alot of sex. Humanity is an ape species, we will act like it no matter what, the idea that we can comes from blank slate theory, which is clearly proven false.

>>103078519
they quite literally are when it's convenient

>>103077710
>scientific socialist
The Replication Crisis says no.

>>103078567
Keeping communists from polluting the purity of liberal feminism is based.

>>103077800
Amazing that you connected that pattern all on your own.

>>103077543 (OP)
The jews found a new angle

>>103078650
No, it just means you go against the same wall as Musk, Gates and the rest of them.

>>103077543 (OP)
Didn't some roastie activist group just get a bunch of porn games removed because of muh objectification

>>103077543 (OP)
saved to gura interrogation mark folder.

>>103078603
>you cant get people to stop breathing, even the victorians had alot of sex.
The goal of proper feminism (NOT liberal feminism) is the destruction of the patriarchy, which is a system that harms both women and men.

>>103078695
>The jews found a new angle

>>103077543 (OP)
>muh misogyny
They only cared because they were't getting paid for it.

>>103078757
no that was the mastercard mafia and (((them))), pretending they totally had to listen to some group of aussie cunts like they weren't gonna wanna do it anyway

>>103078869
Hitler was a jew

>>103077543 (OP)
Women have no issue with being objectified as long as they are getting paid.
Any roastie that says this is wrong is lying. Offer her enough money and see for yourself.

>>103078603
it's the other way around, the victorians were obsessed with sex just like we are now, if anything we are in a second victorian era. if you want to cite examples of more normal societies you have to look either before or after it. for example, incels didn't exist a generation ago and I'm sure your father didn't have to go to the gym just to be baseline non-repulsive

>>103078909
This is partially true. Sex work is work, and before the Internet their avenues for getting paid for it were under a much stronger chokehold by men. Literal pimps, the men who owned the porn studios and distribution companies, etc.
That's not to say that modern day capitalism has freed them, but it's hard to argue that sex workers don't have a lot more power now (as they should).

>>103078833
that a mythology for neurotic cunts to rationalise utopianism, which always leads to bad shit. Feminists have won as much as they can, there's a reason there are no matriarchies outside of our system. The restraints put upon them kept their GSR hostilities to acceptable levels. now that they achieved it, they are more miserable than they've been since we've recorded it.
you need to realise, we're still animals, limited by our animal mentalities, koalas cant realise leaves are leaves if they're not on a tree, termites will always go for all the wood they can, and sex is going to be part of our mentality and decision making process.

>>103079093
I dont think you understood what I thought of an normal.

>>103079245
>that a mythology for neurotic cunts to rationalise utopianism, which always leads to bad shit
Scientific socialism explicitly doesn't do that.
https://youtu.be/F4_BiWhvVyA
>you need to realise, we're still animals, limited by our animal mentalities, koalas cant realise leaves are leaves if they're not on a tree
Ah, here come the very scientific biotruths. You idiots never tire of equating yourselves to animals that aren't capable of using advanced tools or engaging in abstract thought. You yourselves might be this stupid, but I think higher of my fellow humans.

>>103078869
I'm not moving to Argentina.

>>103078869
Follow your xister

>>103079749
You'll be marched you up the same cliff that she jumped from. You won't be given any time to appreciate the view, though.

>>103079749
You'll be marched up the same cliff that she jumped from. You won't be given any time to appreciate the view, though.

>>103077543 (OP)
>whatever happened to women being against being objectified as sex objects and muh misogyny
money.

>>103079842
Deluded trannybabble

>>103080050
>Deluded trannybabble
We did it at Nuremburg, and we'll do it again.

>>103080116
oy vey this jew is seething

>>103080116
You didn't do shit tranny. There's no greater super power to fuck things up this time. This time it's America that's waking up and nobodies coming to save you. You lose. What a hill to die on.

>>103080201
so much for the master race

>>103080262
>This time it's America that's waking up
"my dementia-addled pedophiles are better than your dementia-addled pedophiles"

>>103077710
You mean the scientific socialist feminists that have been enabling the tumblr feminists for the past decade, risking all of the progress that’s been made in the last century via the backslide of there sheer amounts of stupidity, obnoxiousness, and arrogance that has run rampant in virtually every space from pop culture to scientific fields, all because of their complete & and utter inability to self regulate?
You mean those scientific socialist feminists?

>>103080390
>MUSTARD MUSTARD I'M A FAGGOT ASS TRANNY MUSTARD MUSTAAAAAARD!
Return to reddit you don't belong

>>103080497
What you're describing is liberal feminism, i.e. the "MORE WOMEN CEOS AND DRONE PILOTS" set.

>>103080552
>Return to reddit you don't belong
You aren't Gandalf, dumbass. I'm not going anywhere.

>>103077710
>>103080497 (me)
I’m stoopid
>…via the backlash in response of their sheer…

>>103080611
Your stupidity goes beyond the grammatical.

>>103080564
No, the scientific socialist feminists who’ve said nothing because they’re either too tunnel visioned on the “Patriarchy” (should just be called the Elite to highlight the class aspect of it) or because they’re too scared to say anything. Usually the former.

>>103078991
>The Holocaust was real, but the Jews deliberately sparked it to gain pity points from white people.

That's a new one. You should run with it.

>>103077543 (OP)
They don't care if they are getting paid for it (like whores).

>>103080667
At least I’ll admit when I’ve been stoopid

>>103080873
Gee, I wonder why their voices were elevated above the scientific socialist ones at every opportunity.

>>103080564
>MORE WOMEN CEOS AND DRONE PILOTS
You say that like it is a bad thing.

>>103078754
Awww is da widdle communist trying to threaten me? You are so cute. It is almost like nobody even told you about the events of the 1990s.

>>103080900
>They don't care if they are getting paid for it (like whores).
Actually, a whore does care if they get paid for it. Did you just learn the word "whore" yesterday? Because you have to be 18+ to use this site.

>>103080947
>>MORE WOMEN CEOS AND DRONE PILOTS
>You say that like it is a bad thing.
See, kids, this is what communists mean by "liberals get the bullet too."

>>103079525
>but I think higher of my fellow humans
The fact you are here trying to argue philosophy with anons that consume content made by mentally ill women pretending to be anime girls completely betrays that notion.

>>103080947
Because those that fixate on things in such a manner tend to achieve such goals by lowering the bar.
As opposed to other, more obtuse, methods like nurturing & cultivating actual talent and skill.
But of course anyone would initially give them the benefit of the doubt, & assume that there’s no way they’d lower the bar because of how obviously stupid that would be.
Yet here we are…

>>103081200
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" and all that. I don't think people in other professions have a stronger claim to being mentally well than vtubers.

>>103081087
Tankies are cute when they think they will one day actually gain power again. The future belongs to either the neoliberals, the democratic socialists, or far right nationalists.

>>103077543 (OP)
Women who can make money off objectifying themselves have no problem with it, women who can’t make money off objectifying themselves are against it.

Me personally, I root against the whores playing on double standards and blowing lonely men’s money.

>>103080929
Because Feminism hit Mainstream Popularity,
And as soon as anything hits the Mainstream, it goes straight into the gutter… every. single. time.

>>103081281
>The future belongs to either the neoliberals
lol
>democratic socialists
Another word for liberal - people who think that the bourgeois state can be reformed through voting for different capitalist teams. also lol
>or far right nationalists
Refer to the picture of Arthur Seyss-Inquart above.

>>103081289
>Because Feminism hit Mainstream Popularity,
>And as soon as anything hits the Mainstream, it goes straight into the gutter… every. single. time.
Oh boy, you're almost there! Which class of people control both the silicon and the software on which the Mainstream sites reside?

>>103081371
>Refer to the picture of Arthur Seyss-Inquart above.
>Executed by a joint tribunal run by the temporary alliance of Capitalist Democracy and Communism against Fascism.
>Including participants by one the mustache dudes the tankies worship.
Do tankies really?

>>103081491(Me)
Sorry, I realized my post was unclear. Mentioning that fate for the far right nationalists to me is basically threatening me with an outcome I desire, but one that you are really mistaken if you think it will include me.

>>103081491
>by the temporary alliance of Capitalist Democracy and Communism against Fascism.
Way to make my point! Capitalism hadn't been fully overthrown yet, and still needed Communism to put down Fascism.

>>103081442
Does it rhyme with shoes?

>>103081570
Jews are not a class. C'mon little bro, think harder!

>>103081559
Your point being that the next Nuremburg trials will include the liberals who helped run the first one?

>>103081622
Yep! That, or they can stop being liberals, I suppose. Depending on their level of involvement in the current horror show, it's possible.

>>103079525
>Scientific socialism explicitly doesn't do that.
they claim not to, they dont realise they are still human beings and a ruling class who will inevitably rationalise stuff.

>>103079525
there’s this concept called The Lowest Common Denominator, have you heard of it?
We are all born idiots, starting from the bottom and so long as we have the proper structures & discipline, can climb up the proverbial jacobs ladder to be well above the level of mere intelligent animals. But if there’s too many people who are all at once going through an intellectual version of an angsty teenage phase and threrefore think what they most recently were was cringe. They tend to kick out the lower rungs of the ladder, dooming the next generations to be nothing more than intelligent animals. And when there’s too many people that are just intelligent animals, well, WE START ALL OVER AGAIN FROM SCRATCH

>>103081622
Yep! Although I doubt that many of them are still alive. If you mean modern day liberals, then also yes. They could also stop being liberals, I suppose. Depending on their level of involvement in the current horror show, it's possible.

>>103077543 (OP)
Only the ugly ones did this , The hot ones are slutty cosplayers

>>103081748
Yeah... I'm going to continue being more far more afraid of my right flank than I will be of my left flank.

>>103081747
>But if there’s too many people who are all at once going through an intellectual version of an angsty teenage phase
Just read some theory, little bro. You're embarrassing yourself.

>>103081719
aka don’t overly centralize power
aka have it be ambition against ambition
aka Founding Fathers beat that moocher marx to the point by over 50 years.

>>103081795
>Yeah... I'm going to continue being more far more afraid of my right flank than I will be of my left flank.
Both want you dead, centrist. They want very different things for society, though. One wants The Handmaid's Tale, the other wants an actually good version of Star Trek. You can still join the Left with enough work (and assuming you aren't some D.C. or Wall Street ghoul who's involved with genocide). To the Right, you will always be a Jew/tranny/faggot/etc. The Center you're in has no future whatsoever. What are you gonna do?

>>103081895
>aka Founding Fathers beat that moocher marx to the point by over 50 years
Literally just "my pedophiles are better than your pedophiles" again. I hope you don't have children.

>>103081895
>aka Founding Fathers beat that moocher marx to the point by over 50 years.
First the Epstein set, now the people who raped their child slaves. It's pedophiles all the way down with you, isn't it? I hope you don't have children.

>>103081797
theory? what’s theoretical about the observable phenomenon of a generation of elite youth hating on the mistakes & genuine evil deeds of a dead/dying generation so hard that they not only demonize having any pride over the parts of the culture that had little to nothing to do with it, but also that they ostracize the younger generation who weren’t even alive when those horrible deeds were done?

>>103082026
>theory? what’s theoretical about the observable phenomenon of a generation of elite youth hating on the mistakes & genuine evil deeds of a dead/dying generation so hard that they not only demonize having any pride over the parts of the culture that had little to nothing to do with it, but also that they ostracize the younger generation who weren’t even alive when those horrible deeds were done?
You're not making any sense, little bro. I think you should lay down.

>>103078474
Then migrate to venezuela or north korea and let the rest of normal people to live their lives in peace. Not everybody wants to live in anarchist catalonia

>>103082236
No. Capitalism will destroy life on Earth if it's allowed to continue.

>>103079525
You universitarian tankies are so refreshingly stupid and naive

>>103081994
Interesting, that’s disgusting. And since we both agree that’s disgusting. Certainly we would both agree that whoever else has done so is also disgusting, regardless of whatever nation, ideology, political affiliations, class, religion, or race they were right?
And certainly if the topic were to suddenly shift towards what considerations could be made due to what were the cultures that these individuals grew up in, & therefore were normalized to, at their respective times & places. Certainly there’d be no obvious lopsidedness to such considerations right?
And if there were some lopsidedness, certainly it’d have no correlation with the ethnicity & economic class of whoever would bring up the need for such considerations RIGHT?!?!?!

>>103082304
>You universitarian tankies are so refreshingly stupid and naive
You don't have to go to a university to learn this stuff. I studied compsci, about the furthest thing from Marxist theory you can find. If I managed to not let it turn me into a glassy-eyed psychopathic tech bro, you can escape the same fate.

>>103082281
Stay in a socialist utopia. Why are you using things created by that capitalist system you hate so much?

>>103082390
yet you are a psychopathic drone with delusions of grandeur who believed the lies of a drunk man who never worked in his miserable life.

>>103082136
past white elites do bad thing
todays white elites think it’s icky
they think it’s so icky that anything that reminds them of it is also icky
They are so obnoxious aboht it that it has caused gen z’s gender ratio is almost 1 to 1 with their political affiliations.

>>103082403
>Stay in a socialist utopia. Why are you using things created by that capitalist system you hate so much?
Literally just this meme. Why fight back against the landed nobility? Did you know that your PITCHFORKS were made under feudalism?

>>103081910
nta The ones that want an actually good version of Star Trek are far more likely to cause things to become A Handmaiden’s Tale because they didn’t learned a thing from the censor loving Weimar Republic.

>>103082515
>yet you are a psychopathic drone with delusions of grandeur who believed the lies of a drunk man who never worked in his miserable life.
Pretty sure he contributed more to humanity than you've contributed to this thread. Which of his "lies" would you like to address first?

>>103082281
>No. Corporatism will destroy life on Earth if it's allowed to continue.
There, fixed it for you!

>>103082719
>>No. Corporatism will destroy life on Earth if it's allowed to continue.
>There, fixed it for you!
No, you just wafted a stale libertarian fart into the thread. Capitalism inevitably leads to corporatism.

>>103082655
nta while I agree that that specifically is kinda silly whenever it actually occurs, the other anon’s argument is not what’s being argued.
What’s being argued is “leave us alone, we want a solution different from the one that you’re selling”.

>>103082818
>>103082818
>Unregulated Capitalism inevitably leads to corporatism.
There, fixed it for you!

>>103082958
>What’s being argued is “leave us alone, we want a solution different from the one that you’re selling”.
Aside from my posts (the only good ones in the thread), all I've seen are regurgitated liberal/conservative talking points and saber rattling. What's this other solution that you speak of?

>>103083017
>>Unregulated Capitalism inevitably leads to corporatism.
>There, fixed it for you!
Nope, sorry little bro, try again. This is just liberalism. Any reforms or regulations that you pass today will have plenty of loopholes and will be discarded as soon as the pendulum swings back to the other capitalist team.

>>103083027
Regulate Corporatism into oblivion, or into chains via cycles of growth and harvest

>>103077543 (OP)
Humor me and watch exactly 7 seconds of this video link, it explains everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PsSSvslEVg&t=733s

>whatever happened
egirls are all about that even before the era of vtubing

>>103083138
>Regulate Corporatism into oblivion, or into chains via cycles of growth and harvest
Ah, the boom-bust cycle, which renders people homeless (and often dead) every decade or so. I don't see how this is different from what we have now.

>>103077710
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>103083090
You mean the other team that’s compromised by Coporatism. I’m talking a whole radical transfromation as to the role coporations/big businesses are allowed to have in society. The higher you go, the less rights you have! Because “person’s” 7 miles tall can never live with the same laws as the 5’8” people they live amongst.

>>103083192
>Look at thumbnail
Fuck no

Feminism will never succeed in anything substantial because labor is inextricably male, simply due to men being more willing to sacrifice their own satisfaction, etc to keep the machine running.

It's also why women who want matriarchal supremacism societies still expect men being the main workforce to keep society from collapsing.

>>103083192
Channel description:
"The voice of a disenfranchised generation
Culture critic, trash Comedian, failed musician I'm the triple threat."
Less than five seconds of hearing this guy talk and I want to give him a wedgie. No thanks.

>>103083455
>Feminism will never succeed in anything substantial because labor is inextricably male, simply due to men being more willing to sacrifice their own satisfaction, etc to keep the machine running.
>It's also why women who want matriarchal supremacism societies still expect men being the main workforce to keep society from collapsing.
Feminism's goal is the destruction of the patriarchy, not its replacement with matriarchy. Please learn what words mean.

>>103083225
I thought it was obvious what I meant was that the coporations/big businesses are literally the crops that are going to have their heads chopped off with the harvesting, and the harvest itself gets redistributed to people for the whole cycle to start again, it all being a somewhat controlled process that everyone will have time to prepare for and synchronize with. All mediated by various levels of government from towns, to cities, to counties, to states, & the nation

>>103083568
>>I thought it was obvious what I meant was that the coporations/big businesses are literally the crops that are going to have their heads chopped off with the harvesting, and the harvest itself gets redistributed to people for the whole cycle to start again
No, you're still describing the exact boom-bust cycle as before. You've haven't changed who actually owns the means of production (including the factory that makes the parts for said head-chopping machine).

>>103083552
nta Sure that may have been what prior feminists & today’s sane feminists want, but since everything that becomes mainstream goes straight to the gutter, well…
You know how in about 300 CE a Pagan emporor had to essentially round up all the Christians in his empire to get them to stop killing each other? That was decades after Christianity became mainstream.
GUESS WHOSE TURN IT IS TO HOLD THE IDIOT BALL!

>>103083839
>that becomes mainstream goes straight to the gutter, well…
There's that word again - "mainstream." What class of people exert enough control over the means of communication to decide what becomes "mainstream?" Hint: We've already established that "Jews" is not the correct answer, as Jews are not a class.

>>103083552
How do you destroy the patriarchy and by extension society without taking yourself down with it? Of course you're going to need to find some sort of replacement it and it will invariably require male labor not female.

>>103083668
At the harvest the means of production are redistributed amongst the people for the whole cycle to begin all over again, also public education would actually teach everyone money skills & business skills.

it will be an era of moral reversal

https://myanimelist.net/manga/112931/Teisou_Gyakuten_Sekai/reviews

>>103083915
>How do you destroy the patriarchy and by extension society without taking yourself down with it? Of course you're going to need to find some sort of replacement it and it will invariably require male labor not female.
Less than 5 seconds of searching and I've already proven this false.
"Women and children were often employed in the textile industry during the first century of industrialization. Their smaller fingers were often better at threading the machinery. Despite routinely working 16 hours, or longer, a day they were paid little."
https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/industrialization-labor-and-life/6th-grade/
Please read something other than Jordan Peterson.

>>103083917
>At the harvest the means of production are redistributed amongst the people for the whole cycle to begin all over again
And you think the bourgeoisie is just going to let this happen? "Oh yeah, everyone, we're all about playing fair now. It's your turn to hold the Ownership Stick."

>>103084041
How many children are women are working at construction sites and chopping wood?

>>103083888
the ideology/religion/cause has gained the widespread awareness & acceptance of the SIGNIFICANT CHUNK OF THE ENTIRE POPULATION (but NOT deep knowledge of it).
And no matter how imperfect, incorrect, mutated, bastardized, and picked-&-choose-what-specifics-thereof-that-are-most-convenient-for-one’s-ego it is.
And it will all (frustratingly) be under its label. The core essentials of it diluted by the whore of babylon defiling it.

>>103084101
You think this will happen without some kind of revolution to enforce it? Not all revolutions have to be communist revolutions

>>103084308
>>103084101
And I don’t mean cyclical revolutions, just one to kickstart the whole process

>>103084231
>How many children are women are working at construction sites and chopping wood?
Children? Hopefully very few. Also, stuff like chopping wood is typically done by machines now (like the aforementioned threading machines).

>>103084308
>You think this will happen without some kind of revolution to enforce it? Not all revolutions have to be communist revolutions
You are describing a completely half-assed version of a communist revolution, one where you have failed to remove the bourgeoisie from power. It's the equivalent of a child saying "I have an invisible force field that protects me" during a game of tag or whatever. It's useless.

>>103084510
how can the bourgeoisie continue to be the bourgeoisie after they’ve had their power literally harvested from them by force?
You only see it as “half of communism revolution” because I don’t think getting rid of Capitalism is a good idea, hence the cycle to prevent it developing into Corporatism. Like I said before, not all revolutions have to be communist revolutions.

>>103084838
>how can the bourgeoisie continue to be the bourgeoisie after they’ve had their power literally harvested from them by force?
>because I don’t think getting rid of Capitalism is a good idea
This is incoherent. Are you getting rid of the bourgeoisie, or aren't you? Because if you are, you've gotten rid of capitalism.

>>103077543 (OP)
>vtubing
*onlyfans*

>>103084929
bourgeoisie are people with power
power is harvested from the bourgeoisie
bourgeoisie are now no longer bourgeoisie because they are now at everyone else’s level
The power is redistributed to everyone else
btw this is a rough, blurry outline

>>103084929
>>103085345
and the cycle repeats as I mentioned before with the rise of a new bourgeoisie via Free Market Capitalism until the next harvest

>>103085345
>bourgeoisie are people with power
No, they just not just people with power. They are, specifically, people under capitalism who own the means of production.
>power is harvested from the bourgeoisie
How?
>bourgeoisie are now no longer bourgeoisie because they are now at everyone else’s level
This is the entire point of a communist revolution, yes.
>The power is redistributed to everyone else
Yep. So we had two classes - bourgeoisie and proletariat. We got rid of one class, the bourgeoisie. How many possible classes does that leave us with?
>btw this is a rough, blurry outline
You're trying to reinvent the wheel and you've made it to a hexagon, where you're currently stuck. Instead of continuing to waste your time, just go right to the people who already figured this shit out.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXUFLW8t2sntNn5jQO8vF7ai9x0fna3PV

>>103085506
well sorry I thought I didn’t need to be so specific with my word choice because I figured the meaning could inferred by the comments prior. Obviously when I said power I also ment the means of production, but there’s other things other than the term “ means of production “ that I felt said term “ means of production “ doesn’t cover such as big piles of money and an other measures of wealth that could be utilized for political leverage.

>>103085710
The means of production are what generate the big piles of money. If you're still wondering what happens to the latter, it also gets seized from the bourgeoisie by the communist revolution.

>>103085506
>>103085710
Communism’s deepest fatal flaws is that there'll always be people who don’t want to get rid of Capitalism nor Religion.
And that the scent of Permanent Overly Centralized Power will always attract the Corrupt & Corruptible in huge droves to either parasitize off it &/or take the top seats. Essentially creating a pseudo-bourgeoisie as (supposedly, need to look it up again to verify) even Marx the moocher himself might’ve envisioned, him evidently (maybe, again need to check) yearning for the days of serfdoms (again, I need to verify if that’s true or not)

>>103085848
Well as I said, this isn’t a communist revolution so I felt the need to say power instead of means of production because in power includes the means of production

>>103086037
>Communism’s deepest fatal flaws is that there'll always be people who don’t want to get rid of Capitalism nor Religion.
The same was said of Feudalism. Religion has always morphed to fit the needs of the ruling class. Ask yourself what need the Proletariat would have of religion when they seize power.
>And that the scent of Permanent Overly Centralized Power will always attract the Corrupt & Corruptible in huge droves
to either parasitize off it &/or take the top seats.
Who is corrupting them? To what end?
>Essentially creating a pseudo-bourgeoisie as (supposedly, need to look it up again to verify) even Marx the moocher himself might’ve envisioned, him evidently (maybe, again need to check) yearning for the days of serfdoms (again, I need to verify if that’s true or not)
Yearning for the days of... serfdoms. I think you might be drunker than Marx was on an average night. I recommend sobering up and then beginning that playlist that I gave you a link to earlier.

>>103077543 (OP)
Same thing with fat acceptance and why it mysteriously vanished once vtubing came out: it's intersexual sabotage.

Fat acceptance was on the lips of every woman from California to Moscow yet you never see an obese vtuber do you? Same thing with sex objects. It's women trying to kneecap their competition.

>>103086218
>Same thing with fat acceptance and why it mysteriously vanished once vtubing came out: it's intersexual sabotage.
Fat acceptance did not disappear. Watch something other than vtubers every once in a while.
>Fat acceptance was on the lips of every woman from California to Moscow yet you never see an obese vtuber do you? Same thing with sex objects. It's women trying to kneecap their competition.
Let's assume that this last barely coherent sentence is somehow true. Why does this competition exist in the first place?

>>103086291
>Fat acceptance did not disappear.

It did. The only people still saying it are the fatties themselves.

>Why does this competition exist in the first place?

Because women hate each other and if you think this isn't true, you're either a woman yourself (which seems most likely) or you have zero idea of how women's interpersonal relationships usually play out.

>>103086361
>Because women hate each other and if you think this isn't true, you're either a woman yourself (which seems most likely) or you have zero idea of how women's interpersonal relationships usually play out.
Nope, see, you're getting off track again. Put down the Peterson and think about this for a second. What are they competing over?

>>103086433
oh, i get it! You're just retarded and are pretending you don't understand what i'm talking about! Very smart strategy, you retarded woman. It's gotta be really hard not to be able to inference what i'm talking about, but if you're that stupid, you probably won't understand anything else i say.

Jesus fucking christ i hate this routine. You know what i'm saying, you know what i'm talking about, stop pretending you don't.

>>103086543
>Jesus fucking christ i hate this routine. You know what i'm saying, you know what i'm talking about, stop pretending you don't.
Why can't you just say it? Are you not sure what it actually is?

>>103086594
men, mates and each other. But you already knew that. I already knew that. Whatever gotcha you've got lined up, I bet you anything it is just as patently retarded as asking a question we both knew the answer to.

So go ahead and impress me. What super gotcha do you have for this?

>>103086659
Okay, men, mates and each other. That's something.
Why are they competing over these things?

>>103077710
No feminists are worth listening to, just look at South Korea.

>>103086729
>No feminists are worth listening to, just look at South Korea.
You're drunk. Drink some water and go to sleep.

>>103086713
because they want to have mates, and sabotaging other women gets them to that point. Are you pretending to be retarded to waste my time? Just get to the dumb gotcha you have at the end of this bit rather than playing 20 questions.

>>103086778
>because they want to have mates, and sabotaging other women gets them to that point.
What will they do with the mates when they have them? What need do they fill?

>>103086793
ok so you're just wasting my time. Goodbye, retard.

>>103086849
I'm still not sure where you're going with this. Do they eat the mates? Pretty sure there are safer and better sources of nutrition.

>>103086194
I did say that I need to look that stuff up again to be sure
I don’t 100% trust my memory on that & I know I’m biased.
I’m going stream of consciousness here with some editing so some of my word choices are questionable in hindsight, like yearning, almost put nostalgic. I just remember something about Marx comparing (maybe pros & cons) of Serfdoms/Feudalism vs Capitalism.
Religion existed before any ruling class, and how widespread Religion is amongst a population has always waxed and waned over the centuries. There will always be those who’re either chosen to or choose to focus their studies on their respective “religions”, and they will be called whatever their equivalent of “religious leader” is. And this pattern extends even beyond religion but still retains that same religious fervor, you may recognize is as “fandom”. Of a story or of a person or an idea. The masses will always behave in such settings in the same ways.
Who’s corrupting them? Corruption is can be described as the wear & tear that any system accumulates as it goes through existence. Who people are both the result of the system of society and make up the system of society itself. There’s a myriad of ways one takes in as they go through the system, what’s thrown at them & what sticks to the proverbial wall of their psyche. Given both time, number of people, & trends, there will always inevitably be people who pop up with such ambitions &/or egos that they can only be called either corruptible or corrupted. It’s not so much the ends that matter but more so the means believed by those individuals to get to it, the changes it causes, and the repercussions to surrounding system. Not to mention how culture is an organic thing that diversifies with time and people will inevitably divide amongst themselves. Just as a cell must divide when it gets to big due to the square cube law. The limited distance of Cultural diffusion is very much a real thing. With differences, difficulties in communication, difficulties in communication depending on other stressors & details conflict. It’s just people being people.

>>103087301
>Religion existed before any ruling class, and how widespread Religion is amongst a population has always waxed and waned over the centuries.
Yes, but what purpose did it serve during each stage of development (Feudalism, Capitalism, etc.)?

>>103078474
>hungry santa's fever dream will fix relations between the sexes
yes, anon, i'm sure a post-scarcity world will never see exploitation, it's not like immaterial considerations like power ever factor into relations between the sexes

>>103077543 (OP)
Have you missed the advent of onlyfans or something?
Even before that camgirls have been a thing for like a decade.

Sometimes I think some of you retards actually get all your education from 4chan

>>103080390
the fact that you recognize they're all dementia addled pedophiles means that i'm winning, anon

>>103087471
>>hungry santa's fever dream will fix relations between the sexes
What causes these current relations?
>yes, anon, i'm sure a post-scarcity world will never see exploitation, it's not like immaterial considerations like power ever factor into relations between the sexes
What kind of power?

>>103086433
nta rather than competing, to me at least, it’s more of a how to deal with the reality they, and others around them, are in. Though it all coming from a place that starts with the feelings of the self, because where else can one orientate themselves with in regards to such things.
For fat chicks it’s to get something thats in the vicinities of reassurance/validation/excuse/justification/things-are-going-to-be-ok.
For chicks that aren’t fat, for many I imagine it’s just not wanting to feel guilty. Others may not want to rock the boat or cause drama that can be entirely avoided. And certainly for some others there is a whole hierarchy, but I think that most tend to not usually play that game. If anything overly playing that game to me at least, from by male perspective, makes one a loser.

>>103080947
>we must hire and promote people on the basis of immutable personal characteristics like their sex and their race
>this is how we beat discrimination
it would be funny if the retards who seriously thought like this weren't in charge of HR at every major institution in the nation

>>103087589
>the fact that you recognize they're all dementia addled pedophiles means that i'm winning, anon
So you agree that the bourgeoisie, in particular many in its upper ranks, consists of dementia-addled pedophiles? That's also my position. What are you winning, exactly?

>>103081607
'billionaires' is a class and, wouldn't you know it, 2 of every 5 of them happen to be jews

>>103087645
>For fat chicks it’s to get something thats in the vicinities of reassurance/validation/excuse/justification/things-are-going-to-be-ok.
Reassurance of what? Validation of what?

>>103087688
i'm winning your awareness. ten years ago, you were laughing at Qtards who suggested the government was controlled by idolatrous pedophiles...and now you're spewing their lines as though their words had been in your mouth the whole time.
>bourgeoisie
funny way to say 'college-educated', but yes

>>103087731
>'billionaires' is a class
Close. They're what you'd consider the upper echelon of the bourgeoisie.
>and, wouldn't you know it, 2 of every 5 of them happen to be jews
Let's assume this is true. How did they get to this position?

>>103077543 (OP)
the simplest answer is that there is a cognitive dissonance

>>103087828
>i'm winning your awareness. ten years ago, you were laughing at Qtards who suggested the government was controlled by idolatrous pedophiles...and now you're spewing their lines as though their words had been in your mouth the whole time.
It doesn't take a conspiracy theory stitched together for badly-Photoshopped memes to see that many of the ruling elite are pedophiles. The Epstein flight logs have been common knowledge for several years now.
>>bourgeoisie
>funny way to say 'college-educated', but yes
No. The bourgeoisie is the class of people that owns the means of production under capitalism. It does not simply mean "college-educated."

>>103087848
>billionaires
>upper echelon
you don't even realize the forbes 400 list doesn't list the people with actual money
>how
nepotism and mercantilism
they're very keen on taking slaves, too

>>103087453
Depends on the local culture.
Loose memory of past events (“morale of the story” stuff moreso, if at all, than about the facts), social cohesion, metaphorical comfort blanket for stressful periods of times that some generations will have to go through to keep the will to continue forward, recalibrations to the basics via “reawakening”s after secular periods of experimentation to incorporate into religion what’s been learned that’s actually worthwhile, enforcement structures for rules to follow for stable levels of reproduction until other means of enforcement can be developed
(in developed nations, we’re currently experiencing it falleng apart because we forgot that along with giving women more rights, we actually need to raise them to handle those rights, so that the amount of those who aren’t able to stay beneath the critical levels that would cause everything related to that to fall apart, fueling the current “recalibration” that evidently going on, hopefully the f-up doesn’t cause the throwing away of too much of the progress that’s been made)
That’s some that I can think of off the top of my head

>>103087968
>you don't even realize the forbes 400 list doesn't list the people with actual money
I didn't realize that I should care what the Forbes 400 says in this context. In fact, I still don't.
>nepotism and mercantilism
>they're very keen on taking slaves, too
I see. These are things that only Jews do or have done?

>>103087797
That things are going to be ok, that they are going to be ok. I imagine being fat in a society that doesn’t prefer that can be, unpleasant. Especially with how easy it is gain weight and how hard it can be for many to lose it.

>>103088016
>recalibrations to the basics via “reawakening”s after secular periods of experimentation to incorporate into religion what’s been learned that’s actually worthwhile
How is what's "actually worthwhile" determined?

>>103087932
how many of the people that "own the means of production" have never been to college, anon? even that pillow huckster has a degree in some nonsense or another.

by the way, who do you think actually owns the factories and the capital assets and the property that constitute the means of production? the 'owner' of the business? Or the bank that holds the note for the loans that paid for it all?

>>103088097
>That things are going to be ok, that they are going to be ok. I imagine being fat in a society that doesn’t prefer that can be, unpleasant. Especially with how easy it is gain weight and how hard it can be for many to lose it.
Ok in what sense?

>>103077543 (OP)
>WE'RE NOT A SEX OBJECTS
>FUCK OFF AND RESPECT US
>oh, didn't realize it was so offensive. We'll stop paying attention to you and giving you things, sorry about all that
>NOOOOO NOT MY ORBITERS AND SIMP BUX AIIIEEEEEE HELP ME NIGGERMAN

>>103087731
nta the blessing and curse of the Ashkenazi Jews’s culture. Able to produce individuals who can generate great wealth, but at the end of the day are still people who are drawn to other who are most like them, being other rich Ashkenazi jews. And anyone whose rich have a lot of weight they can throw around. And rich people tend to raise spoiled kids, who in turn raise even more spoiled kids. Simply put its far more a class thing than it is a race thing. Don’t attribute to maliciousness what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

>>103088136
>how many of the people that "own the means of production" have never been to college, anon? even that pillow huckster has a degree in some nonsense or another.
The people who teach children in high school, at least in most of the U.S., are required to have bachelor's degrees. Are they bourgeoisie?
>by the way, who do you think actually owns the factories and the capital assets and the property that constitute the means of production? the 'owner' of the business? Or the bank that holds the note for the loans that paid for it all?
Depends on the business. In many cases, yes, it's ultimately a bank. But until the bank actually seizes said factory, it is operated in accordance with its 'owner's' orders. This would make them both technically bourgeoisie.

>>103088169
Again, your beef is with liberalism. The women who are yelling in all caps in your post are not saying anything about patriarchy, which is feminism's actual target.

>>103088260
>nta the blessing and curse of the Ashkenazi Jews’s culture. Able to produce individuals who can generate great wealth, but at the end of the day are still people who are drawn to other who are most like them, being other rich Ashkenazi jews. And anyone whose rich have a lot of weight they can throw around. And rich people tend to raise spoiled kids, who in turn raise even more spoiled kids. Simply put its far more a class thing than it is a race thing. Don’t attribute to maliciousness what can be adequately explained by stupidity.
None of this is unique to the culture of Ashkenazi Jews.

>>103088117
Depends on the context & what causes the “recalibration”, that’s why I mentioned feminism at the end. Despite that parts of it that are definitely worthwhile to keep, the rampant cancerous form feminism has taken in the last decade might have left such a bad taste in all of the “recalibrator”s mouths that anything associated with will be chucked out like a baby in the bathwater.
For other things, well today I’m rooting for women & minorities that are right wing because like it or not, they will be the bulwarks for at least some amount of the progress that’s been made in the last over the last century, and anything outside their “sphere” I fear will be chopped off. Progress that’s permeated through everything to the point that even the recalibrators still accept it will obviously be retained. That why I’m so pissed at the cancerous insane left, it spared nothing from being tainted and taken too far, so now everything is up in the air. At a minimum, fingers crossed, I’m hoping for the continued acceptance of other races that’ve largely adopted American Culture ie Indian Americans & Chinese Americans etc.

>>103088149
That it’s ok to be fat, that things are going to be ok with them being fat. Not that any of it is true, just the feeling.

>>103088642
>That it’s ok to be fat, that things are going to be ok with them being fat. Not that any of it is true, just the feeling.
You just repeated your previous statement. Ok how? That little goblins aren't going to crawl out from under their bed and light their house on fire?

>>103088331
You know these women do describe themselves as feminists, and saying their not is putting you potential “not a true scotsman fallacy” territory. You have to say something in the vicinities of
they are emotional parasites that lack self awareness & are extremely self centered.

>>103088379
Other than a greater propensity to produce individuals that can accumulate wealth, yes, that’s exactly my point

>>103088717
The feeling of being validated & reassured in and of itself, what else could there be?

>>103088723
>You know these women do describe themselves as feminists, and saying their not is putting you potential “not a true scotsman fallacy” territory.
I don't care what label they've applied to themselves. If one of their primary concerns is not the destruction of the patriarchy, then they are not feminists. Please learn what words mean.
>they are emotional parasites that lack self awareness & are extremely self centered.
These are characteristics that are unique to women? You can't think of a single man in history who has had them?

>>103088834
>You can't think of a single man in history who has had them?
Only you.

>>103088822
>The feeling of being validated & reassured in and of itself, what else could there be?
Validated how? That they exist?
Reassured how? That they will survive? What threatens their survival?

>>103088854
>Only you.
I don't think you paid very close attention in history class, then.

>>103088834
Words are shared whether you like it or not, and I’ve never heard of your precise definition of feminist before today (the destruction of the patriarchy and nothing else)
Well duh there’s been men throughout history who’ve had those characteristics, I figured it was so obvious it didn’t need to be said, don’t mistake me for the other person you were talking to, my last comment at you was my first one towards you

>>103088854
nta well don’t you like be cute

>>103088989
>Words are shared whether you like it or not, and I’ve never heard of your precise definition of feminist before today (the destruction of the patriarchy and nothing else)
I didn't say that it was "nothing else." I said that it was a primary concern. The fictional all-caps strawwomen in your post are just insane misandrists. There's nothing that identifies them as feminists.
>Well duh there’s been men throughout history who’ve had those characteristics
Okay. What makes women worth of singling out, then?

>>103088870
>nta rather than competing, to me at least, it’s more of a how to deal with the reality they, and others around them, are in. Though it all coming from a place that starts with the feelings of the self, because where else can one orientate themselves with in regards to such things.
For fat chicks it’s to get something thats in the vicinities of reassurance/validation/excuse/justification/things-are-going-to-be-ok.
For chicks that aren’t fat, for many I imagine it’s just not wanting to feel guilty. Others may not want to rock the boat or cause drama that can be entirely avoided. And certainly for some others there is a whole hierarchy, but I think that most tend to not usually play that game. If anything overly playing that game to me at least, from by male perspective, makes one a loser.
My first input on this.
Being fat is stressful because of not looking as good as skinny people and not as likely to be chosen by prospective partners.
Others essentially communicating that it’s ok to be fat and things are going to be ok with them being fat is a TEMPORARY stress relief that can even get up to levels of delusion. Because it’s less stressful to be deluded than to live in reality, people will do ANYTHING to escape stress.

>>103089189
>Being fat is stressful because of not looking as good as skinny people and not as likely to be chosen by prospective partners.
Has the standard throughout human history always been that skinny=looking better?

>>103089089
all caps? I’ve made a lot of comments on here, copy&paste which one so I know which one you’re referring to.
Was taking in my interpretation of what you were saying and restating it with different words. Primary Concern & Nothing Else, at least to me, are rather close in meaning if not the same.
Because you and that other person were talking about women who were complaining, and you were saying how what they were doing didn’t have anything to do with feminism. I added that in as also being directed at the other commenter as an explanation, and for you so I could see what your response to the idea would be. You seem to accept it, and are just checking if I only ever apply it to women, which I don’t.

>>103089238
I was wondering if I should’ve mentioned that there is such a thing as being too skinny. There’s too skinny, optimal, and too fat. It’s just that one can only get so thin before dying, whereas with fat it’s a slower process of dying so there’s more space on the chart.

>>103089568
That doesn't answer my question, though.

>>103077994
Are you gay?

>>103089966
the extremely oversimplified answer is no. When food is scarce so hard to gain weight, fat is good.
When food is plentiful, skinnier better

>>103077994
only if it’s a subculture within vtubing, just like with unicorn only’s, and kayfabe only’s

>>103081910
We will see if the center can bounce back. Perhaps it shall not, and my time is up. In that case, I heartily and unambiguously endorse those far to the left of me over those far to my right - Communists have rational ideals. Fascists do not. It was foolish of me to insult you earlier.

But time and again people have counted the center out, only for it to emerge resurgent. So thank you for the rescue offer, but I will die on this hill. My body can be your signal to advance.

>>103078398
holy crap I can smell that fact that you’re a fellow under the spectrum and that you’re focus is feminism.
No this is not a compliment or a moment of comradarie, this is calling out the obsessive tunnelvision your ilk was engrossed in that contributed to the creation of the current volatile political climate. And the potential roll back of all the progress made over the pass century due to your inability to self regulate your own, for not understanding that you can’t just look at a map of hazardous terrain and draw a freaking straight line and call it done, with no consideration of potential safe and consistent passage towards your goals. For crying out loud the pronouns have been utilized more as a mark of whose team you’re on than anything to do about coming mutual understanding with those that disagree from which can breed tolerance.
Well, thanks for the unintentional explanation about why there’s so few “left” vtubers.

>>103077543 (OP)
Pay me $500 for playing vidya gaems for 4 hours and you can call me a whore and bitch all you want

>>103090471
I get where you are coming from and sympathize with your anger, but it is misdirected. I said that I received a feminist education. I did NOT say that I embraced it. I simply absorbed it into the larger basis of knowledge that was given to me, as we always ought to do. To put it more bluntly, I absolutely DETEST the singular they.

>communists have rational ideals
Like eliminating the parts of history that make up your cultural identity, exterminating birds that prevent locust swarms from devouring your crops? Melting down steel and weakening it as it gets remolded into “more tools”? How about creating a leading bloc that inevitably becomes the tyrants they supposedly deposed (simply replaced by yet truer tyrants)?

>>103090665
I never said I AGREED with those ideals. I just said that unlike fascists, communists have a self-contained, universally applicable moral worldview. Fascism, by its very particularist nature, rejects this in favor of raw veneration of the strength of the nation over all.

>>103089238
>>103089966
Yes.

>>103090750
>a self-contained, universally applicable moral worldview
They don't, at all.