No foreign traditions allowed in this thread

What is the name your parents/family gave you when you were born?

>>40531495 (OP)
>No foreign traditions allowed in this thread
That's this whole board

>>40531495 (OP)
esoteric =/= magic
reading a book on Hermeticism is exoteric info.
If you want esoteric information, there is no other way than to walk the path.

>>40531727
>Robert Bruce is foreign

Bunch of jew shit desu

>>40531495 (OP)
>Red pill me on the western esoteric tradition
Which one, there's shitload, from big and widespread ones to local, cultural, operating in small communities in various countries.

I guess for you the biggest redpill would be the fact that a lot of western occultist and ancient traditions are based or have shared root with some outside of west. For example, a lot of yogic and egyptian influences in hermeticism, which is one of the biggest western traditions.

>>40531761
yea and if you walk a foreign path its nice to have some guidelines, which bardon delivers on

>>40532118
Yeah this.
Even mainstream scholars speak of a Proto-Indo-European language and by implication a PIE culture.
You can find striking similarities between some of Ancient Greek philosophy, spirituality, and mystery schools with things like Indian yogic teachings or Vedanta. For instance, reincarnation is not just a belief of the East and Dharmic traditions especially, but is in a lot of this Ancient Greek thought, spirituality, and cosmology, like in Platonism (shows up in Plato’s Republic for instance, with a discussion of the nature of the soul and afterlife). Orphism. Pythagoreanism. The word the Greeks used for reincarnation was “metempsychosis”, etymologically roughly meaning, the psyche (soul) changing or being put into another form. Also a similar idea of the memories of the past lives or soul’s higher knowledge being wiped out from the conscious mind/hidden and buried deep upon reincarnation into a body, and the spiritual task being to regain this higher knowledge and in some way escape this cycle of reincarnation, attaining to divinity or a true heaven/liberation.

Various of these Ancient Greeks were also pretty openminded and in fact had a cosmopolitan outlook, studying far to seek knowledge, including spiritual study, and in fact even parts of Ancient Greece were hubs for such cosmopolitan. There was some intercourse between Ancient Greek culture and Buddhism, for instance. Look at the Gandharan Buddhas, a fusion of the Ancient Greek style of sculpture with Buddhism. Pythagoras, Plato, Apollonius of Tyana were known for traveling to learn from various different forms of spirituality or initiation into mysteries, from Indian to Egyptian.

>>40532554
Plotinus himself planned to go to India to learn from the yogis and Vedanta there, he was stopped part of the way through the journey, but his own teacher, Ammonius Saccas, is believed to have had heavy influence from Indian spirituality himself, and this filtered down into the Neoplatonism of Plotinus, where you can see lots of organic similarities to Vedanta, but with the classically Ancient Greek philosophical love of laying stuff out in more thoughtful lemmata and logical arguments and deductions.

But this is just speaking of a possible influence in earlier known history from foreign cultures. The mindfucking thing about a Proto-Indo-European (PIE) culture, is it suggests there was this authentically unified culture, spiritual beliefs and mythology and language that went back before even things like the division into cultures like the Indian and Ancient Greek, these people dispersed and formed new peoples/races/tribes, but records of their spiritual beliefs, mythologies, and practices still filtered down to the new cultures, passed down in some way.

The truth is neither solely of the East nor of the West. It’s not to be found solely by extreme xenophilia (love of the foreign or alien, believing your own culture and tradition has nothing of worth in it nor as profound as it), nor by extreme xenophobia, blind unreasoning hatred of these same foreign or alien teachings. Parmenides’ monism is also similar to the nondualism of Advaita Vedanta, for instance. So which label should you apply to this great spiritual truth? “Parmenidean monism” or “Advaita Vedanta”? Neither. They’re both pointers to the great spiritual truth. It’s not a matter of “being an authentically Ancient Greek pagan”, or “an authentic Indian Advaita Vedantin”, as if this were a mere cultural or racial issue. No, the point is to use their pointing fingers to see the great moon they’re pointing at themselves.

It’s like different wells that can lead to same great pool of water. If you’re thirsty and dehydrating almost to death, and truly come upon a well with sanitary potable water in it, you instantly gladly and gratefully drink from it, regardless of whether it’s a Greek well or an Indian well, a Christian European well or a Bedouin Arab/Muslim well. You don’t necessarily stop to compare and contrast the niceties of that well with other wells.

So, anyway, the “redpill on the Western esoteric traditions” here is, if you’re openminded enough, you could consider that it really is pointing to a transcendent truth belonging neither to the East nor West, but to all (or no one), and which can be authentically harmonized or reconciled with “foreign” spirituality or esotericism. Because, where it’s valid esotericism or spirituality, it must be pointing to the same truth.

Another interesting point, returning to my original post… reincarnation is also in the Kabbalah, a Kabbalistic belief from millennia ago, and also was believed by some early Christians, such as the theologian Origen. This was before the Council of Nicaea standardized Christian beliefs under the heavyhanded rule of the Church over a significant part of Europe (325 AD), and decided to nix reincarnation.

Do you realize even Christ, in the canonical Gospels we have access to, says of John the Baptist, “For this is Elijah, who was to come”?

>And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.
Matthew 11:14 NIV (New International Version)

>And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
Matthew 11:14 KJV (King James Version)

The context is, in the former Hebrew religion, they had the prophet Elijah, who appears in the Book of Kings I of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), and the Book of Malachi then prophesies Elijah’s return. This is many centuries before the events of the Gospels and advent of Christ.

>>40531495 (OP)
https://youtu.be/oIiBOauHjpI

>>40532685
Do you realize this? Even mainstream, or ordinary/orthodox Christians (not literally just Orthodoxy, but I mean orthodox by the standards of the church they follow), in their canonical books, have to admit, that Jesus Christ, their own Lord and Savior, says that St. John the Baptist was the Prophet Elijah “who was to come” (who was prophesied to one day return). Ain’t that interesting?

So, I’d say once again, reincarnation is not just an Eastern belief, and also there are many fascinating and uplifting things you can find in Western esotericism. Even some mainstream scholars admit extraordinary similarities between some of Hermeticism and Christianity, for instance, or parts of the Corpus Hermeticum and parts of Christ’s teachings and sayings in the Gospels. Teachings about “dying to be born again”, “being born again of the spirit”, for instance. Which does NOT just refer to reincarnation, but also to a very possible spiritual-death-and-resurrection that can take place in your own physical life right now. Spiritual transformation and rebirth.

It’s similar to the alchemical idea of the transmutation of lead into gold, as well as the stages of nigredo, albedo, citrinitas and rubedo in the Magnum Opus or Great Work of alchemy, which, in its spiritual sense, represents the work on oneself and one’s spirit that transmutes one into perfect wisdom, liberation, enlightenment, or a union or manifestation of the Divine. (Blackening, whitening, yellowing, and reddening, symbolically a breaking down or decomposition of the ordinary, sensate, material, vulgar self and transmutation of it through stages into a higher spiritual state.)
With alchemy also being a goldmine for the relics and lore of Western esotericism.

>>40532811

Western esotericism also precisely had to be secretive at times, or form secret societies, and the very concepts of esotericism and occultism, because of the at times tyrannical heavy-handed rule of the Vatican, or Roman Catholic Church, over much of European Western civilization for almost some millennia. It has been strongly Christian, with lots of centrality given to Christ, the Cross, Christian symbolism, stories, and teachings, in things like Masonic lore, Rosicrucian mysticism, alchemy, etc., but, since they had some ideas more unconventional or heterodox to what the Roman Catholic Church taught, had to hide some of it in such symbolism or esotericism.

However, it does NOT just go back to European occultists wanting to shield themselves from persecution by the Church. The Ancient Greeks, as we were talking about earlier, also had these mystery schools, which commonly used secrecy, oaths of silence, symbolism, and initiation or elaborate initiatory rites (only for those *chosen* or deemed *suitable*/*worthy* of going through them), before and aside from any Church ruling them. But, even then, figures like Socrates, who ventured some philosophical and spiritual beliefs contrary to that of the traditional pagan beliefs of the Athens he lived in, ended up condemned and executed for his beliefs, without and before a Vatican or Dominican Inquisition. Showing this isn’t just unique to Christian European Western history, but simply seems like a feature of humankind. The same way Muslims have persecuted some of their own Sufi mystics, for instance. Hence, there is not always just something inherently “evil” or “sinister” about esotericism, occultism, having secret teachings or secret meanings, but sometimes they are rational and valid means of self-defense from prejudiced outsiders.

These are my redpills on Western esotericism, if you wish to read them or if you actually care about them at all. Take care, and God b’with ye (etymology of “goodbye”).

It's pretty good. Was at its best during Greco-Roman times, and it's been downhill since then. Still, lots of different effective stuff. Just have to be careful with the modern occult revival slop. Some of it is very good, most of it is retarded.

>>40531495 (OP)
all of the western lineages have been infiltrated, subverted, co-opted, broken, misguided, or completely fabricated
>No foreign traditions
the reason people gravitate towards "foreign" traditions is because they have more reputable lineages with a history of consistently producing results

>>40531495 (OP)
>western
>no foreign allowed
Lol, lmao even.
99% of magic shit in the West is jewish and/or kabbalistic. Even the PMG has spells using the IAO Godname.

>>40531495 (OP)
It's Egyptian.

>>40532468
All paths are foreign before you walk them.
All guidance is exoteric before you are on the path.

>>40534850
you are merely playing the game of semantics while not even having read bardon (who makes the same points you do while not coming across as a guy who heard the word "exoteric" yesterday and now wants to use it at all costs)

>>40535665
>who makes the same points you do
And yet you dont seem to understand why.
>heard the word "exoteric" yesterday
Not my fault 99% of people dont understand simple concepts and misuse terms.

>>40535682
>Not my fault 99% of people dont understand simple concepts and misuse terms.
and yet you waltz into a thread obviously concerned with the beginning and you start sneering about exoteric guidance as if 99% of people who made it havent received it
struggling to see an end game here (besides a fleeting feeling of superiority on your part)

>>40535723
>obviously concerned with the beginning
A good start would be to understand a basic concept behind the term being used.
>sneering about exoteric guidance
I never sneered at anything. You are projecting a lot onto me.
>struggling to see an end game here
That if you want esoteric information, you have to start walking.
I'd would imagine that is some very first step level stuff, but you seem to imagine it is advanced for a beginner.

>>40535755
>You are projecting a lot onto me.
when i typed that out i wasnt really expecting a concession but merely curious if you could offer a rebuttal thats not "projection"
the struggle is to see an end game on your side >That if you want esoteric information, you have to start walking.
again:
>>40532468
if op was unwilling to walk he wouldnt have made a thread like this
are you just one of them chaos magician types that want everyone to build their own doctrin from scratch?

>>40533173
qabala is part of the Western Esoteric Tradition you nonce.

the two pillars of the Western Esoteric Tradition are alchemy and qabala. these coming hence from egypt / sumer / Babylon, then being brought into Europe around the 1200s following the Crusades. Some of the first alchemical work we have produced in Europe is that of Ramon Lull in Spain around the mid 1200s. This is really the start of the Western Esoteric Tradition as we know it in Europe.

Prior to this it flowed back through the middle east, Egypt, Sumer, Babylon, Atlantis and before that who knows.

the fundamental difference is in the West the culmination is a communion with the Higher Genius, and then coming back and improving / evolving humanity in an enlightened stare. whereas the East seek illumination to be off the wheel and no longer come here.

>>40535787
>offer a rebuttal
The rebuttal was "no", and nothing further was needed. The projection was observation of you guessing motive.
>if op was unwilling to walk he wouldnt have made a thread like this
Are you that naive? Seems you need my first lesson as well, then.
Many many many will read a book and think they now have "esoteric information", because someone like you thought you could give it by handing a book, and just expecting them to go further.
It's a disservice - and one that I am observably the only one in the thread to warn against.

>>40535810
>The projection was observation of you guessing motive.
yup
>
Many many many will read a book and think they now have "esoteric information", because someone like you thought you could give it by handing a book, and just expecting them to go further.
It's a disservice - and one that I am observably the only one in the thread to warn against.
again, have you read bardon? if you read him and understand him you will not feel like having grasped anything until you put in the self-work and if you do you werent meant to get it

>>40535817
>have you read bardon?
Yes. This is irrelevant to my point.
>if you read him and understand him you will not feel like having grasped anything until you put in the self-work and if you do you werent meant to get it
And again - are you this naive?
The majority of people read, and do nothing, and now proclaim they have esoteric information.
Because of your disservice.

>>40535828
its not irrelevant to your points because many books exist that dont emphasize the self nearly enough and its not a disservice on my side to expect people to read and understand
i am not naive, i am just assuming op is a person worth talking to
the people you are outlining dont remotely concern me and id advise you to take up the same stance, saves a lot of headaches

>>40531495 (OP)
esoteric tradition in western world is basically extinct right now. You've killed all your old gods, none of the old practices are working anymore these days. You've replaced them all with the money and capitalism.

>>40535871
Yes do not redeem the god sir

>>40532103
Every single religion is a cult of control. The rules of this cult can either by reasonable or insane (by normal standards). The reasonable ones are the most popular, but the insane ones have the most power, provided they can penetrate enough offices or have a dedicated ground for recruiting. The cult hiding itself as Judaism has a dedicated recruiting ground and basically a get out of jail free card in every single country ran by Christian values, because technically Christian law is only supposed to apply to Christians (unless you run a fascist state). So, "Jews" are really just code for intelligence operatives in the western/christian world (the west is essentially defined by Christianity, as there was no "west" before it, as even Greeks and Romans saw each other as different). You can safely ignore most of their psycho babble and recognize they fight for the same time... or at the very least, they take advantage of the same loop holes that the old roman elite created in order to run the deep state known as Christianity. The implication is that the answer to this problem is certainly not more Christianity or more Jew hate. The answer is to reach for less propagandized terms.

>>40535808
>we euz egyptians and atlanteans and shieeet
whitelarpers are as pathetic as niggers, you really are barely more than pale niggers

>>40537015
He's right though that most western traditions was influenced or an offshoot of foreign ones. Also >>40533173 is wrong, kaballah/semitic mysticism is nowhere as common among western traditions, though it is common. Not as much impact as indian, egyptian or hindu mysticism though, at least on non-local/familial practices.

The western esoteric tradition has culminated into listening to this for 2 mins and becoming a God on the astral plane.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=3pFLVlFcU14

>>40535755
>you have to start walking
literally
t. never owned a car & have accessed more esoteric information than anyone I've met

>>40533086
>they have more reputable lineages

They really don't, both east and west tend to devolve to quasi historical humans/mythical dieties after 3 or 4 generations.

>>40531495 (OP)
>"No foreign traditions allowed in this thread"
>"Hermetics"

>>40538489
For real. The back story for "kriya yoga" is fucking sus.

>>40531495 (OP)

That book you hold is more in line with tantra using western symbols than the western esoteric tradition. Not to say it isn't based, its probably the closest thing a westerner can get to tantra, but its highly deviant from actual western esotericism. Hermetics is a 19th century and 20th century buzzword used to sell books. Real hermeticism is gonna have you more in the realm of spirit conjuration using ritual, astrology and astrotheology, alchemy, classical and antique philosophy, becoming a god, and plant medicine. If you're looking for real hermetics you're gonna have to hit the classical and antique world, the Islamic Caliphate, and the European Rennaissance. I personally believe the peak of hermeticism and hermetic magic lies in the caliphate grimoires.

>>40538799
>I personally believe the peak of hermeticism and hermetic magic lies in the caliphate grimoires.
Could you list them out by name please?

>>40538810

Al-Kindi, particularly his treatise De Radiis is an important innovation on the Hermetic Philosophy and an authentic part of the hermetic lineage.

Al-Bunis Shams Al Maarif is peak Islamic applied hermetics that teaches the hermetic arts particularly talismanic/image magic (which is a synthesis of spirit conjuration, alchemical metallurgy, numerology, and astrology)

Then Al Bunis ritual The Berhatiah is going to expand on the Sham Al Maarif.

Kitab Hall ar-Ramuz by Ibn Umayil is going to lay out the keys to unlocking the symbols of alchemy and lies at the intersection between the alchemy of Zosimos of Panopolis and the European Alchemists. He explains the symbols of the Egyptian Zosimos' alchemy and those go on to inspire and influence the European alchemists.

Mislama al-Majriti (or Maslama al-Qurtubi) then has the most infamous Ghayat Al-Hakim (Picatrix) which is a compendium of recipes for the highest of the hermetic arts interspersed with hermetic philosophy. When practiced theurgically the ghayat evolves into Hermetic apotheosis, on top of that it has a lesser known sister book called the Rutbat al-Hakim which is its alchemical companion. Both books together teach the person how to perform hermetic astrology and alchemy and the ghayat is incomplete without the rutbat.

And just for record im not a Muslim/middle eastern. Im an occultist and while tracing the threads for more powerful esoterics/magic i found this material and was amazed at its power.

>>40535844
>many books exist
ALL books are exoteric information. They have to be. This is where you start to make mistakes because you dont understand a simple concept.
It was a mistake I was hoping to let OP avoid since it is rampant on /x/.