is true that life is suffering, buddhism centers its doctrine around that idea, but buddha was wrong about the concept of anatta or non-self. the soul exist, and nirvana isn't end but more like inmortality. i like the buddhist doctrine, It is almost perfect but is incomplete due their lack of believe in the self

Technically you're just made of random imagination energy and you could be transmuted into someone else. The only thing that maintains a self is your own desire to keep manifesting yourself.

>>40603547
no. i feel the soul. i could keep feeling the soul even if i desired to not have a soul

>>40603641
>desired to not have a soul
That would make you an NPC and you would be used to paint scenes with.

To be fair, the Hindu idea of the soul being eternal and part and parcel of God/Brahman or whatever you want to call it, sounds good but has it really manifested itself in your waking life? How do you even know it’s there? When you are unconscious (drugs/drink, medical, sleeping, etc) why is it just black? Sure you can have dreams sometimes but what even are your dreams? Idk man, you should consider what the Buddha said. Maybe the concept of the soul is just another attachment.

Buddha cant be wrong because theres no self and therefore no buddha
(According to buddhism which also disprove buddhism)

>>40603700
Maybe the four noble truths are also attachments

>>40603465 (OP)
If you insist in Atman you better go with hinduism.

>>40603739
I don’t think so as the 2nd truth is that you suffer from attachment/craving. That would be like taking medicine for an illness that also cause the illness.

>>40603465 (OP)
Actually the Nirvana Sutra speaks of the Buddha-Nature as the True Self. Anatta is taught as an effective medicine which cures sentient beings of their false ego. Once they lose the false ego Buddha-Nature is taught. It might not be Universal medicine but it's good for Kings and this teaching is one of the hardest to encounter.

>>40603465 (OP)
To be completely honest with you I think it's talking about the same thing but it comes down to a game of semantics. At the level of metaphysics being discussed with these concepts there is bound to be miscommunication. It's an attempt to describe what's outside of the matrix using only objects that exist inside of it.

Healthy young instance of being enters samsara, gets pumped full of words and concepts, no longer feels in alignment with existence and changes - SPIRITUAL AUTISM. Many such cases.

>>40603832
I was going to say the Buddha Nature as well but Im not quite educated on the subject. The Dharmakaya is another interesting subject as well. The Buddha body that transcends all reality. I’m not quite convinced that Nirvana means we cease to be. We simply encounter our true nature and leave samsara behind but we are not in a black void. It is something so inconceivable, maybe the Taoists have it right all along.

>>40603828
Youre attached to the idea that attachment causes suffering, the four not so noble truths are attachments to a belief system

>>40603769
>shown by the buddha
Wrong, there has never been a buddha, everything is mayas illusion
Including the idea of buddha, a self, there is also no self, no buddha and no buddhism

>>40603859
Buddha didnt bother explaining metaphysics, you shouldnt be talking about that, he did say that suffering was the only purpose of his enlightment nothing else
I supect that he was full of shit, imagine gaining some sort of ancient deeper knowledge magically while sitting under a fucking tree but youre not able to use words to articulate properly your so called enlightment, lmao come on

>>40603962
Yes the Buddha's Wisdom is inconceivable and this is indeed rooted in the Tao

>>40604066
That's not really the final teaching but you have learned this thru the Buddha's skillful means yes

>>40604113
You completely missed the point of my post.

>>40604149
I sense you have an understanding of the false concept

>>40604053
I disagree. Please tell me what causes suffering in your opinion?

>>40604135
Who gets to say what the final teaching is or not?
Buddhism isnt even supposed to be considered knowledge, buddhism is supposed to be considered spiritual medicine to cease suffering, but theres a problem
Theres no suffering to begin with, mayas illusion makes you think that, therefore youre attaching yourself to the idea that theres a suffering you need to cease but theres a problem with that too, theres no you

>>40604158
Suffering isnt even a thing
For suffering to exist there has to be a self so it can experience it however there is no self, therefore, no suffering

>>40604155
Care to elaborate?

>>40604166
I know you have good understanding and I'm not disputing with you. I'm just saying that No Buddha is not a final teaching. It is true that there is no teaching because all Dharmas are empty, but Sakyamuni's final Scripture (Nirvana Sutra) claims that Buddha-Nature is Eternal (and you said no Buddha). Try practicing saying your sayings as skillful means, rather than Omniscient Knowing. And do not dispute that there is no Omniscient Knowing, the Eternal Buddha is Omniscience Knowing. But let me compliment you again on your solid grasp of the tentative relation between Maya and suffering

>>40604187
The knowledge that all things are Babel, you have a fine grasp of that. If there's something more to what I said, that's up to you. Maybe there is no point (to be grasped!)

>>40603465 (OP)
I don't think suffering is an accurate translation of the word because it comes across with unintended connotations. The idea of impermanence is pretty based tho.

>>40604190
>>40604198
There's also a cool synchronicity to these posts on the "point" that there's no teaching - then what is conveyed by both these messages simultaneously?

>>40604149
The point of your post was this
>Demi god buddha cant use his superpowers superintelligence abilities to even properly articulate his divine revelation

>>40603465 (OP)
>"life is suffering, mannnn"
Why does every faggot in the world accept this shit? Sure, suffering is a big part of life but stop being such a pussy about it.

>>40604234
You're saying nothing new, it's called skillful means. Look up upaya. This is how Zen Masters point at the Moon

>>40604158
>>40604185
Not really true because you have dreams with a self and you don't suffer there. Suffering comes from the collective. Somebody who is not yourself manifesting something that you didn't agree to.

>>40604198
I figured, but you're a pretty wise guy so I wasn't sure if you had more to say. Thanks fren.

>>40604234
Has very little to do with the Buddha at all. It has more to do with direct experience/realization itself and it's ineffable nature. If anything it has more to do with (you).

>>40604190
>It is true that there is no teaching because all Dharmas are empty, but Sakyamuni's final Scripture (Nirvana Sutra) claims that Buddha-Nature is Eternal
Youre clinging and attaching yourself to scriptures, ideas and concepts that were conceived out of the ego delusion

>>40604279
How else is he supposed to communicate?

>>40604246
Theres is not need for upaya as theres no one or anything to free from anything, youre too deep into mayas illusion

>>40604185
I understand what you are saying but you live on Earth. You have a body. You are experiencing many different sensations just from being alive. How you choose to react is what causes suffering. Having a sound mind and being in equilibrium (right mindfulness) is what the Buddha taught to alleviate suffering. So, yes by understanding there is no suffering, as you say, is alleviating the suffering….but trust me the suffering is there. If I’m off base please let me know.

>>40604252
Suffering does not come from a collective because everyone has different types of cravings, innate cravings but theres a problem with that too, theres no everyone to begin with

>>40604269
Theres no (me) to begin with, see? If only buddha would have used his superpowers to properly articulate all of his divine revelation so people like you wouldnt look so dumb with wordie words games

>>40604304
>buddhism babble slop
Talk like a human. Saying cravings does not counter anything I said.

>>40604290
Bro youre not getting it... There is nothing to communicate in the first place

>>40604294
Lol we free sentient beings but their false ego are illusions. This is upaya, the way of conveying our Great Compassion. We have compassion for the "slop" that's mired in illusion. What else is there to have Compassion for, the Buddha? But there is Compassion.

>>40604279
The Mahayana Sutras are skillful means they aren't conceived by the false ego. You can become Enlightened just by meditating but I'm on meds so I can't sit long, this is why I study Scripture.

>>40604279
I think reading scriptures can be cool but I have feelings they were often designed to be over convoluted, as entertainment for already believers, as programming and hypnosis, and many more. At the same time I think they can contain cool ideas and arguments and such. At the same time a lot of those ideas have often already entered our cultural zeitgeist.

>>40604339
The Buddha's Wisdom is inconceivable; how can this be conveyed? If it's a koan, there is transmission. If it's not a koan, count me as an ignorant man. You seem to know what you're talking about. Is it a koan? That is the answer to the koan.

>>40604299
You are totally wrong about everything
In just few decades you wont have a body anymore, youre attaching to that, my point is that theres not even a body to begin with, in some millions years or less who knows, there wont be an Earth after Sun consumes it
Everything is impermanent and youre clinging to the idea you must cease something that doesnt even exist to begin with

>>40604339
The fact that there are hundreds of suttas/sutras disproves this. The Buddha wanted to help people. To say suffering doesn’t exist, the Buddha isn’t real, the scriptures aren’t real is a cop out and faux spirituality. Now, I agree that whatever this place is, is an illusion to what’s real but you gotta stop being so autistic to put it bluntly.

>>40604386
Yes this is correct, and I am citing the Vimalakirti Sutra's teaching that sickness is an illusion. Just by dispelling the illusion one lives a healthy and fulfilling life in the Pure Nature. The essence of this insight is that the Saha-World is the Buddha's Pure Land. Suffering does NOT exist, yet Nirvana and Samsara are One. Hell, Nirvana doesn't exist either

>>40604393
Yes the Nirvana Sutra says I would sooner cut out my tongue with a sharp sword than say the Buddha is not Eternal. He has one skillful teaching not unrelated to the Diamond Which Cuts thru All Illusion. I think what he is saying is best summarized as
>All Dharmas are empty and without substance

>>40604345
>their false ego are illusions
Who gets to say what is false or not?
What rule/metric shall we use to determine what is truth or what is not truth?
See? Youre totally attached to ideas and concepts such as upaya or the great compassion, babies in Gaza dont get the great compassion or in Congo, does it matter?, no because there was no babies in Gaza to begin with

>>40604386
I agree with everything you said in this post. I would love to see your daily interactions. How you react to pleasure, sudden inconveniences, and yes suffering. It is easy to speculate and wax poetic online. Maybe you are autistic or a sociopath with no emotions at all, who knows?

>>40604418
yes Jordan The false ego really is suffering

The self is bliss.

>>40604362
There is no koan to begin with, see? koan is just another layer of the mayanoid illusion to keep you trapped and attached to an endless list of clingings and cravings
Youre basically being held hostage by Maya at this point, it is quite painfully obvious

>>40604418
Great compassion isn't a concept either, I got it from meditation and study. There is NO ARGUMENT FOR ANY DHARMA. In order for there to be an existential quantifier in logic, an entity must be assumed into the Universe of Discourse. There is nothing Eternal but the Void, and Void is Buddha. There is no argument for Compassion, and it's not a concept. You don't have compassion on the Self-Nature, as it is perfectly Pure and Immutable. Thus it is a false teaching that you shouldn't harm sentient beings because they have the Buddha-Nature. The Buddha-Nature is Eternal and CANNOT BE HARMED. We shouldn't harm beings because it causes suffering to the false ego. There is no EXPLANATION for this because it comes from GREAT COMPASSION, not a concept

>>40604450
Okay so there's no koan. Like I said, count me as one of the ignorant

But if you could, please say more about how my KNOWLEDGE, from the Sutras, is evidence I am trapped in "Maya"

>>40604460
It's absurd to say the Buddha's Wisdom is Maya, from the Lotus Sutra we learn OF the Buddha's True Wisdom. Or do you deny the Wisdom of the All-Void?

Everyone here is debating rather than doing. Embody the Christ-Buddha consciousness and enjoy the transitional ride through maya world. Return or manifest only to aid all living things. It’s about uplifting the state and exploring before return to Creator/completion. It’s not graded and there’s no time limit only surrender.

Do not debate, go and satiate in your presence. The trap are these forums where discussion is masterbation mentally.

An introduction to yoga.

>>40604470
I just want to spread Wisdom, it Rustles my Jimmies

https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Buddha-Krishna-Lao-Tzu/dp/1571746803

>>40604484
>>40604470
Buddha says you shouldn't act like a Sophist (*cough*) not that you shouldn't correct people's ignorance. Ignorance is the root of karmic debt and suffering (causality)

>>40604425
Theres no sudden inconveniences to begin with, thats part of the mayanoid illusion too

>>40604507
>t. Mayanoid

>>40604319
Oh, nevermind, I guess we're saying the exact same thing then.

>>40604460
Youre totally attached to what you consider knowledge not only that, youre attached to the idea of knowledge itself and how it is useful somehow to reach the eternal nature of buddha, when buddha isnt even a thing and the four not so noble truths constantly talk about impermanence across all layers of existence

>>40604555
Bro you are literally doing the exact same in the inverse while also autistically completely unable to read intention. I am hard pressed to believe you aren't just baiting for funsies at this point.

>>40604555
Checked but in Mahayana the Buddha has actual Wisdom that Bodhisattvas are meant to learn. I'm not attached to the teachings they just Rustle everyone's Jimmies. The Wisdom of the Buddha just gives me something to do, I could chan out at any time and just spend my time in anatta, but I'd rather convey the knowledge I've learned to others on here, when Buddha threads come up. Buddha is the downward root of existence. My Wisdom comes from the Buddha-Nature but I haven't gotten far with it, I just try to convey what the Sutras say to resolve inferior beings confusion

>>40604555
But no, you don't reach the Buddha-Nature thru knowledge, since Buddha, Void, and Dharma are all One, and all Dharmas are empty.

>>40604536
Theres no maya no begin with

>>40604678
Then what are you talking about

>>40604678
>>40604681
I'll give you a hint: Sakyamuni's mother's name was Maya, and there is a Buddha

>>40604499
I didn’t know telling the truth makes one a Sophist. I don’t know what a Sophist is. In this case is it a crime to enlighten me on the meaning of the word or not?

>>40604743
Someone who debates using pre-conceived ideas. Socrates taught that you can't teach pre-conceived ideas.
>All Dharmas are Empty

>>40604775
I disagree. I speak from experience. I am using language as a vector for conveyance with my intent.

Since you share wisdom I did. I told them all to go experience themselves and go inward. Rather than get confused by chatter and disagreement.

See the problem with written language is individual understanding and impressions on words are different. Here you judge me as improper for using the general gist of a state of being we both mean but have different words for.

It is a truth: Everyone can jumpstart by attending to themselves.

What speaks against *not* being idolatrous?

>>40603465 (OP)
Buddhism is ancient psychoanalysis, life is inherently painful because we choose to do something stupid and forget why we do it, there is no escape from suffering because it is essentially loop and interpretation, there is only play or AFK if bored.

>>40604743
>>40604775
Can't believe I am about to engage with not one, but TWO namefags, but that is not what a sophist is.
A sophist originally was a paid arguer. A professional who went around and would argue for people that paid them. Often coming from the schools of skepticism, and often accused of specious reasoning.

Sophistry in modern times is a person who argues simply for the sake of argument, and using bad reasoning. Preconceived ideas or arguments may be part of that, but it is t what defines the concept.

>>40605475
In modern times Sophist retains the sense of "puffed-up." You're right though I wasn't conveying an academically rigorous definition

>>40605490
I don’t think of myself as inherently better than anyone. Time is not linear. Progression can be practical but it’s not a race to the finish line.


Thus I must ask, why did you aim for an insult of my persons and methods if the truth was given. It is factual: They will learn more seeking the Creator within so they can know it and recognize it in all. At some point talking and writing is an imperfect medium. The example is here, you cannot bear witness to I/It/Us. You can but rather declare being bold and blunt as pride.

The point is people focus too much on Mind but forget right will/innate Body. It’s immensely grounding to pay mind to the unfoldment and sensation. You can find inner peace and beauty in immersion and surrender.

>>40605475
Thank you for the clarification. It helps.

>>40605988
I doubt that I have insulted you with my intentions

>>40603700
>why is it just black?
>he doesn't starve and deprive himself of sleep to get visuals and manipulate his hallucinations while maintaining a state of hypnagogia through breathing
>could also do auto-hypnosis
Ngmi

>>40603465 (OP)
There's no self to be found in the center of a rose as you remove its petals, yet the rose exist around this emptiness. Each petal constituting the being of a rose (dependant origination).

>TOYO EICHO
>東陽英朝
>Died on the twenty-fourth day of the eighth month, 1504 at the age of seventy-seven

>All four pillars of enlightenment
>Crumble at once—
>See! See!
>Moonlight wreathing coral branches—
>What does it mean?
>Now all grows as dark
>As the palace of hell in
>The grasp of Satan
>Katsu!

>Toyo wrote these words while sitting upright; he then put down his brush and died.

>The “four pillars of enlightenment” are four qualities ascribed to nirvana by Buddhist scriptures: everlastingness, contentment, truth (liberation from the illusions of self), and purity. Nirvana is described as a state beyond life and death, but while dying Toyo looks straight at death and sees in it the naked truth of absolute destruction. For a moment he considers the image of perfection and harmony (the moon lighting the corals in the water), but this vision gives way to a darker one of death. The final “Katsu!” wipes out the several images and brings the poem back to the here and now at the moment of death.

>>40603465 (OP)
Ken Wheeler already addressed this you dumb faggots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEnb2cFWKBs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZedR37QRcMA