Is it only possible for humans to suffer since non human animals are incapable of reason and understanding the laws of logic?
Are human babies and severely mentally handicapped human adults also unable to suffer?

Animals are also in pain when you hurt them anon

>>40650687 (OP)
You're retarded yourself. Take the helmet off and see what happens.

>>40650691
I read this and it made me pause

>Well my general belief about suffering is that the physical sensations are not suffering, we assign mental suffering to that. People subject themselves to physical suffering all the time very often. See marathon runners. Animals likely don't assign mental suffering to whatever it is that's happening in their life. Hungry -> look for food -> no food -> it is what it is -> die of starvation.

>>40650712
>>40650687 (OP)
you are not good. give yourself a leave for a wwek or so and go wander around some nature

>>40650718
But isn't that just an appeal to emotion

I've felt existential dread and it really really sucks but animals can't feel that
Some humans enjoy being hit choked electrocuted etc some hate it

>>40650784
I am positive animals infact feel existential dread

>>40650814
How

>>40650687 (OP)
if suffering is pain animals do it too, if suffering is the result of logic and reason then humans can logic and reason themselves out of it too, gl noob

>>40650687 (OP)
Reason is not required for suffering.
Selfhood is.
Atma suffer.
All living things from the highest deva to the lowest bacteria is atma, and all can suffer.

>>40650858
Yes of course humans can choose to be happy or at least not suffering even if poor hungry alone etc just choose not to desire
>>40650879
What is selfhood and why selfhood instead of personhood

>>40650900
your epicureanism is weak, you could also achieve the desire to be free of harm.

>>40650900
>What is selfhood
Subjective experience. Selfhood is more directly experiential than the more abstract and othered personhood.

>>40650941
“Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection. And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is? For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean. (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.) ¶ Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” (Acts 17:18-28)

>>40651678
I can't remember being a baby or remember any time I wasn't able to reason

>>40651712
Good for you.

>>40651708
>https://youtu.be/NDOxPSZX0VE?si=R3tM2bNDoG0727l8
dreamed I died, ended up at the gates of heaven
Greeted by a man saint someone, said "How's the ride son?"
"It's been alright, at times a little rough, why am I here?"
"You did alright, lived a little dark and that's alright
'Cause we made the darkside and the rightside is to have no fear, no fear"
My whole life flashed in front of me
I saw everything that I was and what I had done
Even let me look back on some good times for a little fun
Yes, a little fun
And then I heard "damn boy you done good
Did the every little thing that you could"
And then I heard "damn boy you done good, damn good"
When you hear the call, bury them all
Destroy all or nothing
When I hear the call, I will bury them all
I will destory all or nothing
When the sky opened up and the clouds parted clear
There wasn't any doubt to why I was here
And I knew I'd done a good job, the best job that I could do
So now it was time to move on, to get on, to get back
To the question of why I was here and what I had learned, no fear
My whole life flashed in front of me
I saw everything that I was and what I had done
Even let me look back on some good times for a little fun
Yes, a little fun
And then I heard "damn boy you done good
Did every little thing that you could"
And then I heard "damn boy you done good, damn good"

>>40650687 (OP)
Some animals feel some sort of suffering. It's more like trauma because they do not define it, they only react to stimuli.
It's easy to see in other mammalians like elephants, cats, dogs and even aquatic mammalians. Other species probably do to but it's much harder to empathically relate, thinking of octopi.

>>40650720
>>40650851
>>40651712
(You) might want to play Slay The Princess, it's a neat VN.

>>40650687 (OP)
humans are the ones that suffer the least.
animals suffer much more than humans, especially if we take into account what humans do to animals out of pure sick sadistic need to watch animals suffer due to some mental issues.

>>40650712
Many animals have feelings like happiness, love, depression, affection, hate, anger, fear, loneliness, trust, betrayal, compassion, gratitude etc. just like humans.


>Most animals are horizontal, since
Their homeland is not other than this Earth; But man’s essential stance is vertical; Free will to choose Salvation proves his worth.

>Nobility some animals possess: The genius of their symbol lives in them.
They can be more than a corrupted man;
Only their possibilities are less.

>Be humble when you meet creation, for
An animal may be a sacred door. Do not despise a noble plant, a stone: They bring a message from God’s blessèd Throne.

Frithjof Schuon, Road to the Heart,

>>40650687 (OP)
>Are human babies and severely mentally handicapped human adults also unable to suffer?
babies suffer since the womb. Think about it. Being carried around by a woman? What was God thinking? Plus, you are inside the womb and then a dick is pushed in your head because your mom is fucking. Man, babies don't have it easy. We suffer since the moment of the conception. In that very moment our suffering begins and God laughs of amusement because he has one more soul to suck its losh out. No joke. Don't truste me bro, do your own research.

>>40650687 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmfVDYucGkY

>>40652664
Nobody has any serious responses