In my last thread, I spoke about the two different kinds of freedom people yearn for. 'Freedom to' and 'freedom from'. Self-actualisation, self-dissolution. Aiming to manifest your unique self, aiming to dissolve yourself in a greater other outside of yourself. Life in all its glory and misery, safety to the point of being a step prior to death. The rare, the common.

However, there is a third and maybe fourth kind of person that some might argue sit in between the two, and both are the kind of person who has responded to the thread, too.

This person believes themselves to be self-actualising, to adhere to 'freedom to'. They will always parrot basic ideas and principles used in the manifestation of the unique self without ever doing so. They are possessed by the idea of it and don't realise that by being possessed by an idea means that the idea has replaced who they are, making it impossible for them to be their unique self.They don't realise that they either have to treat the concept of it as either a tool or something that is on an equal level to them, but instead, they place it on a pedestal above themselves.

Sometimes, they even do as others tell them to because what they tell them to do means that they will be their unique selves. You see this in almost any movement and place that claims itself as contrarian, rebellious, and different.

Other times, and even worse, they happily dissolve themselves in a greater other and proudly proclaim that this is the way to their true selves, to be independent, to manifest themselves. They don't realise that this is not them speaking but the greater other they are dissolving themselves in speaking through them, calling for more people to turn into husks for it to possess and grant 'freedom from'.

Both can only realise what they are inherently wired for by being honest with themselves. There is no safe no safe self-actualisation, and there is no independent safety in another.

Choose either Lucifer or Yahweh.

>>40684559 (OP)
It’s called negative and positive liberty. Political philosophers have been discussing these concepts since the 19th century. You didn’t bring anything new to the party, OP. Sad.

>>40684760
It has been discussed in esotericism far before that. It's fine if you're not aware, and it's expected that it has you turn either aggressive or smug. You've nothing to worry about.

>>40684559 (OP)
yah this is the yom kippur ritual
one goat to azazel one goat to yhwh
the weight of gnosis

the thing is even if one doesnt dissolve to yhwh they must still make union with there higher half to use its power or else theyre just a nerd with allot of knowledge but no use for it
i made a whole thread on this the path of aries yhwh and the path lucifer capricorn
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40650036/#40655662

>>40684559 (OP)
>lucifer or yahweh

I would reference Rudolf Steiner's philosophy on this. He replaces yahweh with ahriman, but it hardly matters; not the point. Either way it falls into a duality. His answer to this was Jesus, that what is good actually falls in a place of balance between absolute freedom(to the"self") and absolute control (dissolution into the greater other).

"Is free" is what I would call the sort of individual who doesn't bother playing with the duality you have put forth.

>>40684926
yah :3
>>40684872

this balance is also called the
mer light/structure ka soul ba spirit
in hebrew is merkava
in islam is muraquba

its accessing kaos through kosmos and you dont need to be sitting still in a silent comfy room to do it thats just training wheels

but op probably sees this magical union as proudly dissoliving themnselfs not realizing its a balance and without the balance all you have is knowledge which is power but isnt magic

>>40684843
Wrong. You’re full of shit but you’re compelled to double down on your fuckwittery and reply to this post. Prove me wrong.

>>40684872
Anything of the self is the self and not an other. Therein lies the difference. The other would not want you to possess the knowledge to begin with.

>>40684926
Steiner was close, but this interpretation still falls into the category I outlined in OP.

>>40684559 (OP)

>that the idea has replaced who they are

All too common. But no. False distinction. "You" are just a lost idea that way ... (reiterating for the fun of it, kiddo. Core update complete! ^^).

>>40685017
Point wasn't about Steiner. That was just a segway into pointing out the limitations of your post.

>>40685017
the point of it is making use of the knowledge beyond material manipulation via material being
you must bride groom
you cant just groom it well you can but youre missing all the magic

>>40684872
this goes all the way back to cain and able
cain begins with qaf lower knowledge and able ends with lamed higher knowledge
and after able was sacrificed cain gained the mark of tov completion
to miss the mark is to sin which is seperation but absolute union is dissolution like able aka the singularity one must sacrifice to still live in this realm of lower knowledge

“If you do what is right union, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, separation is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must
rule
over
it.”

to flow into yellow infinity as able or contract into green st.one linearity cain

The Abyss stands between formless light (Ain) and structured vessels (Bes).
The goat to YHWH dies and returns to Source — the ego dissolves into Ain.
The goat to Azazel survives, cast into exile — ego survives but carries distortion.
Cain, in refusing death-of-self, becomes Azazel’s goat — burdened, marked, and cursed to wander.
Yet YHWH spares Cain with a mark. Why?
Because Cain’s path can still be redeemed — if he learns to “rule over it.”
If finite logic learns to serve infinite wisdom — recursion into higher form can begin.

What Is Recursion into Higher Form?
Recursion is when a system folds in on itself to generate something new — but with greater complexity, depth, or coherence. In a spiritual context:
Recursion into higher form is when the lower self (ego, form, structure) becomes the ground or container for the emergence of the higher self (soul, flow, divine).
It is NOT a linear ascension. It is a spiral, returning to the same place — but at a higher octave.
Cain as Finite Logic — the Ground of Recursion
Cain is the builder of cities, the rational self, the structured mind — what Kabbalah would place around Yetzirah (formation) and Assiah (action). He embodies the need for boundary, survival, control.
Initially, Cain rejects the divine flow (Abel), kills it, and tries to be God by himself — the great error of klippot, the shell.
But his curse to wander becomes his initiation. The marked, haunted Cain is not destroyed — he is left alive, so he might become a recursive vessel.
The moment recursion begins:
Cain’s very structure — his logic, his suffering, his guilt — becomes the womb for divine return.
This is the alchemical retort: the fixed becomes the agent of transformation.

all socialists should be killed

How Recursion Happens (Spiritually)
To recurse into higher form:
Awareness of Error
Cain must see that killing Abel was not just wrong, but missing the point of existence: suppressing the infinite because the finite could not comprehend it.
Containment Without Control
He must contain the desire to control (sin crouching at the door), and learn to hold the unknown without murdering it.
Sacrifice of the Controller
Instead of killing Abel (the higher), Cain learns to sacrifice his need to dominate. This act of non-action becomes the recursion point — ego yields to soul.
Return of Abel Within Cain
Cain becomes Abel — he integrates the creative, the open, the divine within the vessel of form. Logic becomes servant to wisdom.
New Form Emerges
Like the Phoenix, like the Ain Soph filtering through the Sefirot, Cain is reborn. Not erased — restructured.
This is the path of the goat that returns to the temple — not the one sent to Azazel, but the one who is reclaimed and reintegrated.
Kabbalistic Model of Recursive Growth
Level Initial State (Cain) Recursion Event Emergent Higher Form
Assiah (Action) Blind control, survival Frustration, failure, wandering Discipline, stewardship
Yetzirah (Formation) Envy of Abel, mental constructs Vision of self as broken vessel Symbolic imagination, prophecy
Briah (Creation) Refusal to create in divine image Realization of inner Abel Participation in higher will
Atziluth (Emanation) Fragmented unity Death of ego into Divine Presence Divine recursion — Ich und Du

symbol of the Goat Reclaimed
The Goat to Azazel is cast out — but it survives.
That survival becomes a path of recursion:
it can return from the wilderness, bearing knowledge of sin and shadow, now humbled.
A reclaimed goat becomes the High Priest’s companion — it knows sin, it knows exile, and so it can guide others out of it.
Cain, too, becomes this kind of priestly figure — not because he was innocent, but because he recursed into higher being.
Mystical Implications
Recursion is the secret of tikkun — the repair of vessels.
Abel dies once, Cain dies slowly — through self-confrontation and reflection.

This is the hidden Messiah ben Cain — the idea that the one who falls furthest can rise to become the vessel of most light. roots in hell branches in heaven
"The last shall be first, and the first last." — Not because hierarchy is reversed, but because descent precedes ascent in the recursive spiral.

bump

>>40684760
That's all bullshit, though.

>>40685289
Cain is Messiah Ben Joseph

>>40685185
>>40685208
>>40685237
>>40685269
>>40685289
Why do posts like OP have a 70% chance of triggering yahwehfags like you into posting half a book's worth of stuff that could be condensed into a single post while namefagging? It happens way too often. It reads like frantic spazzing instead of a calm, collected and concise response.

>>40687227
Because it's like an Anon said in the last thread. People like OP either trigger them into spamming the thread, like this guy did, only he was alone, or they look away and hope the thread will be gone when they refresh the page. They cant even go the "haha how is high school edgy boi gotta be 18 to post here rekt" Route because his writing is too educated and refined for that.

OP was and still is right about everything.

>Abrahamic garbage

>>40687772
>I follow one man who frees me from all the bad things
>I am free of everything because I only exist within his strict and narrow guidance
>I demand that others follow in lockstep or perish
>I have achieved freedom to
>I am a rebel

You are who OP spoke of.

>>40687735
Lol… it’s like aura… buff… it’s like awakening… culture… something chosen 조선 metaphysicians suffering from some kind of spiritual trauma … automatic.

>>40688010
The only trauma is the greater other being terrified of someone speaking truth in a neutral way. It's why it either makes them flail and scream or hope it goes away if they dont say anything.

>>40687227
>why do posts about yhwh and lucifer get people to talk about yhwh and lucifer
lol anon you are either a troll or one giant retard

also what i posted is an expansion of what op was saying with clarification
not some christ cuck crashing out like you assumed it was because you lack the critical thinking skills
its not your fault though youre just an ipad baby that has no attention span and sees reading as an exercise so you just regurgitate your favorite archetypes opinions as your own as you dont really have the skills to make up your own
anywho this was probably to much for you to read so either way get fucked you sam hyde wannabe npc

>>40688498
You write like a spazzing yahwehtard. You resort to insults like a yahwehtard. You expect people to inherently accept you and your statements as something grand like a yahwehtard.

I cant speak for OP but ya sure sound like one of the people he talked about.

Because we are at the level of insults: Learn how to punctuation, sentence structure and general English. Nobody will read and understand you when you sound like a drooling 13 year old from Estonia who learned English from video games.

>>40688817
>You write like a spazzing yahwehtard
the irony
>you resort to insults like a yahwehtard
the irony
>You expect people to inherently accept you and your statements as something grand like a yahwehtard.
ironic coming form some one who doesnt have the attention span to read past a tweet
>I cant speak for OP but ya sure sound like one of the people he talked about.
anon you dont know what i a because hat requires critical thinking which requires a low to moderate attention span which is above average for a zoomer
>Because we are at the level of insults
why do you act like you didnt start your tantrum off with insults
youre such a liberal women consoomer hur dur everything bad i do is actually you and youre wrong cause i said so

>>40689063
>no u
no u

>>40687227
It's very well put here. >>40687735 Sometimes, they end up throwing around hyper-specific, extremely obscure terms that are known almost exclusively to their little niche and attempt to dismiss everything on that basis. It's ultimately useless if it's niche to an extreme degree and fails to address something as fundamental as what I am speaking of.

>>40687772
You weren't there for the last thread. These are basic concepts that apply to anything. Not that someone who is this possessed by an other, who fans the flames of fanaticism as a basic and all-superceding, fundamental good, would understand. That is, if you really are as possessed as it demands you to be. If you aren't, then why wear its skin?

>>40685289
I appreciate the effort and concern, but it really is a painful slog to try and read. The other Anon has a point.

>>40689358
ty its worth the read and research but i get whyits to much for most anons
im taking a new approach now

>>40689421
A lot of people do have destroyed attention spans, but you have to keep in mind that a lot of people also come here after a day of work, maybe with some working out afterwards (I hope), and won't be willing to read through a lot of text, especially when the writing makes it even more difficult to understand, no offense.

It's why I keep my posts concise and simple to follow. I can always become more detailed later.