Thread 1010259

Comissionfags, have you ever dealt with revisions by a client? If so, how was it like?

I want to get into commissions but I worry that I won't be able to satisfy the client's needs. And worse case scenario: they ask for a refund if I cannot deliver to their standards.
If it were 2d, then it'd be way easier to revise again and again, but I understand that 3d is a completely different beast and that revisions aren't as easy.

>>1010259 (OP)
Funny story, bith game dev and animation comapnies prefer 3d production pipelines because it's easuer to do revisions. Although it kinda is a difference of perspective due to peoduction scale. In 3d you can change different parts (shape, materials, animation) without affecting others, its very modular so revisions are easy, but there's more work up front. Like, if a character for which you have a minute of animation needs different clothes, in 2d everything has to be redrawn, while in 3d you mostly just rework the mesh.

Anyway, you make it pretty clear in your terms that refunds are only for a no-show, if work is delivered and you can prove it they can go fuck themselves. Also they pay at least part of it up front. Then to minimize the risk they won't like it ypu involve them at all stages because earlier changes are easier and if they fail to give feedback until after delivery then they can also go eat dicks and/of have to pay extra.

>>1010259 (OP)
You should upfront discuss what amount of revisions are included in the offer and at what point it'll cost extra to have additional ones done. That way the client will think more deeply about what they ask of you in the first place, hopefully reducing the need.

>>1010260
Sorry for all the typos, shouldn't have phoneposted

i havent done 3d comms but ive done 2d animation comms which have a similar problem to 3d where the prosuct graduates through various steps and fixing simething in a previous step is more work than it seems.
>>1010260 has a point that a 3d model can be prepared in such a way that revisions are easier, but a consumer client is not the same as a studio head.
my strategy is to work woth them at every step and get their confirmation everything at that step looks good to them.
I'll sketch the main scene and get them to say they like the designs. then i show them an animatic to get them to confirm toming and movement. then the sketch frames. then the finished frames.
if you've got a really frustrating client who keeps wanting a little more, a little more, that's too much kinda thing then you need to keep your eye on the prize. youre running a business, this client isnt just their fee, theyre also a marketing node. how well you accomodate them will color what they tell others about you. some nitpicky clients know theyre nitpicking and if you can muscle theough it will be extra appreciative.
a good coping strategy is to find people you can talk to, in real life not electronically, and talk major major shit.

>>1010263
> a good coping strategy is to find people you can talk to, in real life not electronically, and talk major major shit.
IRL > private 1 to 1 > private groupchat > anonymous board > public social media

>>1010259 (OP)
You need to find the right balance between showing them the model as early as possible and the model not looking like absolute shit
If you asked early it's easier to make corrections but the client might lose faith in you if it's too unpolished
I once had a very frustrating back and forth for 2 hours until I realized that my client is blind and cannot understand a red clay matcap. Some simple colors would have helped.

>>1010265
if your shittalk is comitted to an indelible electronic record it's as good as public.

>>1010266
in college i tried to make a model of solid snake. the face was a dead ringer, 100% likeness from mgs3. a friend of mine insisted it looked nothing like him. i projected my.image planes onto the grey defsult material and like magic he's all
>oh ok NOW it looks like snake.
there are people who really cannot see shapes and contours without colors.

>>1010271
I hear voices complaining about my thoughts and actions almost 24/7. So even my thoughts are as good as public.
The question is: how public they are. Glowies, algos, randoms, chosen few? Who can respond to that?
That makes a difference.

>>1010274
or one million times more likely, the person youre talking to leaks screen shots because you make them mad one day or they see an opportunity to screw you over to gain personally.

>>1010259 (OP)
Its probably a good idea to include stipulations for revisions, like you'll do two revision passes and if they're still not happy after that you'll have to start charging by the hour. Some people are perfectionists who want to touch every detail and micromange fonts and letter spacing, it just never ends

what even is a revision anyway? does a long series of minor shape tweaks count, or is it as major as "actually I want him in a full armor suit instead of a loincloth"

>>1010259 (OP)
>And worse case scenario: they ask for a refund if I cannot deliver to their standards.
I do 50% upfront not refundable as soon as I start putting hours in it
But I am also doing my "first" commission right so I don't know how anything works

>>1010259 (OP)
you can't really change people but you can filter your clients. set up how many revisions is acceptable to your workload and charge accordingly. if the revision is beyond your quota, just ask the client to commission a new model.

>>1010259 (OP)
Just don't leave room for revisions?
When I was working with clients, after every day of work, I'd send the client a few renders or screenshots of what I finished that day and a description of what I was tackling next. Obviously if it was small shit I'd hold off a bit before sending, but I'd generally try to have something sent to the client consistently.

Including the client in on the creative process means they've got a direct line for changes they need BEFORE it becomes a hassle to make them, helps them see the big picture, and covers your ass if all the way down the line if they say it's not what they wanted ("my nigga, you've been giving me the OK for weeks").
Sometimes you'll get clients that are like "wow cool" or "looks good" and won't offer much except a vague response that says you're going in the right direction, but sometimes you'll have clients that are useful to bounce ideas off of and actually make meaningful suggestions that improve the work as a whole.
Of course doing this approach means that you need to know when to reign things in a bit for those enthusiastic clients, otherwise the project can start going way out of scope, but it's a fun way to work and build relationships that create repeating clients.
Those clients that mesh well can make for really fun projects though, and if I'm enjoying myself I do sometimes let loose and let things run a little wild if it means a better end product that I'M happy with as well as the client.

To me, best way to avoid revisions that require a rework of an entire project after you've kept the client in the dark the entire time, is just to not do that. Don't get a job, go dark for a few weeks and just send them a final product.

>>1010275
but then it turns out no one listens to them anyway so you are fine.