Why do western artists have problems when it comes to drawing in anime art style and why is it always clear the artist is not japanese?

They probably learn from terrible sources like /ic/

They draw the styles they were primarily exposed to which tend to be older works

>>279629919 (OP)
They don't. English-drawn V-tuber models look more or less interchangeable with Japanese ones.

>>279629978
English vtubers are usually drawn by Japanese artists

It's just a matter of time, really
We already have fanartists like BluetheBone and Eufoniuz who can make styles identical to anime.

Art styles are regularly copied and emulated.
It is the writing style that is difficult, if not outright impossible to imitate. Lots of background knowledge goes into writting stories - culture, societal norms, tradition, history, etc

>>279629919 (OP)
Forgot the 'Inspired by Disney' on the right.

>>279629919 (OP)
Hime-cut is god taste.

>>279629919 (OP)
Western artists LOVE to draw noses for some reason while Japs know that noses are rarely cute and should be ignored

>>279630685
Cutest!

>>279629919 (OP)
ngl i prefer left
it's the ponytail i swear

>>279630783
It's a cuter drawing. Also reminds me of Franky and Vicky.

Not a lot of people know this but Nips are hard into the fundamentals. A lot of them study Loomis, Hampton and the like so they can break its rules to mold it into an artstyle. Honestly, fundamentals is the easy part. Conceptualizing and finding meaning into subtle changes is the hard part. The westerners just either just either jump in with no fundies or go full fundies scoffing at anime stylization. With that, it seems like the Nips follow the traditional way of art progression, I don't know what the fuck are the westerners teaching to the hapless beginners.

>>279630851
Lmao no
Contrary to what /ic/ and other artfags tell you, EVERYONE just fucking eyeballs it.

Why? Because fundies and boxes are a fucking bore. The only ones who tell you start with that are the crabs who want to kill your motivation.

Art books are consultated after reaching intermediate levels. Beginners should just focus on grinding things that actually matter - discipline and fun

>>279630916
Murata and basically every mang art teacher will offhandedly mention Loomis like everyone should already know to start with studying him. It's perma-begs and perma-ints with no work ethic that can't get past the basics of perspective and anatomy that disavow the fundies.

>>279630672
>tranny-cut is god taste

>>279630957
I don't disavow it
I said start with making it fun for yourself

You don't read novels from the get go - you start by reading fairy tales because they are fun
Same goes to art and every other skill

Get rid of fun and you'll hit burn out in 2 weeks

>>279629919 (OP)
Rote practice isn't as frowned upon in Japan as it is in the West. In fact, you're expected to spend your practice time copying pre-existing contemporary artwork if you want to become a professional artist in Japan.

There's nothing wrong with the existence of other styles, there isn't a right or wrong style.
Neither eastern or western animation styles are realistic, both look ridiculous when compared to a real person. They are both vehicles to express emotion. What you find appealing is just what you're used to seeing.
Both sides of the industry respect and influence each other, it's only elitist weebs or uncultured westerners that try to make it a contest.

>>279630916
I agree with this, you can't learn to draw by reading. You learn by drawing. There's very few honest people on /ic/.

Anime artstyle came from the west tho, it just evolved over time.

>>279629919 (OP)
I'm probably going to get crucified for this take but left is better

>>279631065
Don't see why, they're both fine drawings.

>>279629919 (OP)
This is /ic/ tier nonsense. There are a bunch of western artists who make art that could easily pass as eastern style.
At the end of the day it comes down to which aesthetic the artist prefers. Some prefer to go full anime style, some prefer western and some a 50/50 mix.

>>279629919 (OP)
Do we have any examples of nips trying to draw american style trash? The FLCL south park scene is the only thing that comes to mind and isn't quite the same.

>>279631257
Panty & Stocking
PPGZ is kinda a mix of both east and west
Layton
Kirby
Zorori

Off the top of of my head

>>279630700
cute pattadol

>>279630474
>It is the writing style that is difficult, if not outright impossible to imitate. Lots of background knowledge goes into writting stories - culture, societal norms, tradition, history, etc
Yeah

>>279630851
>Not a lot of people know this but Nips are hard into the fundamentals
People sometimes mock Raita, but he did go to uni and is capable of drawing "correctly". He simply went beyond fundamentals and draws something he himself sees as beautiful.

I've hated fake anime since totally spies.
It's like they're trying to trick me into thinking it's anime when it clearly isn't.

>>279631495
Totally Spies is more weeb Frenchmen trying to trick kids into obtaining very specific fetishes.

>>279629919 (OP)

>>279631522
Them, teen titans, avatar. I always felt like they were using anime style because they felt like it would get them automatic views. In hindsight they were probably just inspired, but I still hate artistic rip offs.

oh god this is the niggerfaggot that's been shitting up /ic/

>>279631216
>There are a bunch of western artists who make art that could easily pass as eastern style.
lol no. It's not even vague like east-west, you can often tell the artist's exact nationality just by the linart

>>279631607
I don't think this is true, Dr Stone's artist being Korean was a surprise to me, JJK seemed Korean the first time I saw it. I would've never guessed NGNL's author was brazillian, etc.

>>279629919 (OP)
What a completely false dichotomy. You can tell the person who made this image has never watched anime other than atypical stuff like akira and ghibli.

>>279631632
>often =/= every instance without a single exception
There are also a lot of cases where author has taiwanese/australian/singaporean/whatever nationality, but is actually chinese or korean. or vice versa. People can move around.

>>279630474
>We already have fanartists like
For twenty years? Why do you act like copying a basic art style is a nearly impossible task unless you're of that specific culture?

>>279629919 (OP)
Your brain fills in the missing details if given enough hints. Sometimes this gets pretty exciting as with the case of Zettai Ryouiki.
Westerners often suffer from brain problems in the form of cute aggression, iodine deficiency or other. The excitement strikes too hard and they get scared or angry.

>>279631581
279630474 is him samefagging isn't it? What sort of person who's interested in anime fanart thinks only two artists can imitate japanese style?

>>279631065
I would fuck both in the ass.

>>279630916
This. I tried teaching myself how to draw two years ago and I spent the entire time doing fundies and drawing Loomis heads. It fucking sucked. I quit after a couple months and still haven't gotten back to it. The only way I've ever been able to maintain the motivation to actually learn and get good at something has been by enjoying it. Having fun is genuinely the most important part of learning any skill.

>>279631982
If you ignore the fundies and learn bad habits, you will never properly put the fundies there afterwards either and can't make anything that isn't an eyesore.

>>279629919 (OP)
I think that, consciously or subconsciously, western artists believe that they're better than Japanese artists and that Japanese art styles don't deserve to be referenced accurately. They can never let go of their artistic "westernisms."
Not even this guy's "Eastern style" drawing looks like it was drawn by a Japanese person.

>>279629919 (OP)
Line weight preference and fundamentals.

>>279632034
This, too.
>>279631982
And this. MASTERY is fun. That is a specific thing that Americans don't have and actively look down upon. "Itz just my style"

Being too derivative can start to show gaps. If all you see is anime, you can’t find your own style. That’s why you take in as many sources as you can so you can filter out the parts that don’t appeal to you and broaden your horizons.

>>279631257
There was a whole slew of Japanese artists who drew like Pendelton Ward during the early 2010s when Adventure Tine was popular anon.
You guys are into artists, I trust at least one of you has run into Umezawa Michiko's work? Pretty talented westaboo all around, very very interesting style.

>>279632034
>Not even this guy's "Eastern style" drawing looks like it was drawn by a Japanese person.
I've seen japanese artists draw like that, you only think this because the moment you see english letters you attach it to your western artist stereotype and the art automatically becomes less appealing in your eyes.

>>279631968
But they're both boys...

>>279632054
Shu-ha-ri is probably a foreign concept to Americans, yeah. But on the whole most artists regardless of what medium they use (music, literature, art etc.) or where they come from start out copying their favorite styles and then (hopefully) develop from there.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuhari

>>279632373
he already said ass
nothing changes

>>279629919 (OP)
Why do you want an exact copy of anime?

>>279632363
No, the right is more cartoony in a Western way than what a Japanese person would draw. It has distinctive Western sensibilities.

>>279632054
>dude make exact le copy of other dude
Faggot

>>279629919 (OP)
Cartoons and pixarshit nowadays.

>>279632665
>>279632621
the western attitude summarized in 2 messages
this is why you all will never be able to animu: your attitude is too flippant

>>279632707
>ching chong ding dong you must do it this way or shamefur display
This is why Asian cultures stagnate so bad.

>>279632725
And it's also the reason why your entertainment industry is currently crumbling, and the people in charge are desperately trying to ape Japanese media in an attempt to capture the attention of uninterested youth. You lost.

>>279632621
Well, how are you gonna draw "anime" without making it look like anime?

>>279629919 (OP)
Probably the way they do lineart. I don't know why but easy to spot if the artist is Asian by the lineart.

>>279630851
you should go browse pixiv sometimes, vast majority of nip art is absolute pre-/beg/ garbage that is indistinguishable from deviantart autist scribbles

>>279632962
this

>>279632950
It's because most western digital artists never picked up a real dip pen in their entire life so they have no idea how to actually draw with one digitally

>>279632665
Yeah I guess you're right, only beta losers even learn art, right? Flunked out of art school? That's okay, just use AI.

>>279631559
Honestly I kinda get why they did that since anime was pretty popular with their targets demos. It helps that Teen Titans and Avatar ended up being pretty decent, even if it took the former a longer time to get there.

People should understand that there are several distinctive established styles and schools. You can either learn them or ape them. Add to that artits' personal style if they grow long enough.
Aside from how the faces of characters are drawn there are so, so many other differences from paneling to coloring. Dwelling on the faces seems insignificant even. The split between "western" and "eastern" is reductive since I can assure you NA comics, belgian classics, japanese manga and chinese manhua all follow very different fundamental and stylistic paths.
Amerikomi are lauded for their full colors and extremely detailed backgrounds among japanese fans for example.

have people ever bothered to look at what japs post that aren't good at art?

>>279629919 (OP)
What makes that specific netflix korean outsourced "anime-like" look so popular with corpos and why is it overused in every Netflix/Amazon "adult" cartoon? Castlevania, Korra, Tomb Raider, Blood Of Zeus, Vox Machina, etc.

>>279631814
Why do retards here use the term "cute aggression" without knowing what it actually refers to?

>>279629941
Fpbp

>>279631257
That Marco and galaxy dragon yuri visual novel was very clearly inspired by Star and the forces of Evil (which got a dub by the way). We also got a oneshot in jump plus that looks like it was inspired by Spindlehorse cartoons

>>279633886
Castlevania, Tomb Raider, and Blood of Zeus were done by the same studio, Korra is follow up on ATLA which established it's style ages ago (unless you mean something else), and Vox Machina doesn't look like it emulating anime to me.

>>279629919 (OP)
Doesn't /a/ do the same thing with its draw threads?

>>279631982
>This is true because I quit and then never actually learned to draw any other way
????

>>279630851
the one time I looked into it no one teach it, teaching drawing is a foreign concept
>>279632962
nope, I browsed pixiv tags once and even scribbles look animu =/ deviantart

>>279631257
There was a nip who was
>a big fan of Commando style classic comics
>a fan of WW II era things
>a bit buttbothered about Germans and Japs being the bad guys
So he decided to draw his own ones. The stories had themes like following a Tiger crew in a battle. They looked and played out exactly like those old british war stories but with different "good guys". Can't pull the name out of my memory.

>>279630685
>Western artists LOVE to draw noses for some reason
Because noses exist. Dot noses suck because they make every character look the same.

>>279629978
English-speaking people drawing VTubers are almost exclusively Asians.

>>279634578
バタ臭い
I hope you stay far the fuck away from anime and keep your whiteoid nose obsession with you

>>279629919 (OP)
I wish I could draw at least that one on the left, let alone the one on the right. You can't even imagine how depressing it is to be quite so artistically challenged as I am.

>>279634653
i can't even draw stickmen nicely

>>279634286
Motofumi Kobayashi?

>>279634578
Rather they looked the same than jewish.

>>279629919 (OP)
> semi-realistic proportions
lol lmao
You are clearly a dumb westoid, who doesn't know anything about anime, yourself.
Anime generally puts the heavy aestheticsm above any sort of realistic proportions.

>>279630700
Kui is a westaboo.

>>279633851
Define "aren't good at art".
Random person from the street who you asked to draw a scribble?
Lowest rung of pixiv shit?
Twitter artist with 500 followers?

Something about practicing anatomy while westerns skip it because it's too hard. Someone here must have the image/webm of that.

>>279629919 (OP)
there's this hugely pervasive trend in western art where people design based on the preconceived notion that certain shapes can only evoke certain feelings. So since anime is supposed to be cutesy, you HAVE to draw everything round and bubbly, because sharp lines and triangles are "aggressive" or "dangerous"
But the japanese can make things angular and still look cute

>>279633851
They have to weite kanji so even someone who doesn't draw will probably be better than a westerner who doesn't draw. L

>>279635234
the japs have art class all through high school, most people obtain some sort of artistic ability by the time they graduate and can do sketches or rakugaki fairly decently
They all have terrible penmanship despite this

>>279635283
Plus there being a ton of opportunities for artist thanks to manga popularity. There's actual drive to become an artist. There's schools and competitions.
Im Russia kids are good at maths for the same reason, there's competition, clubs, schools.
In Brazil and Argentina there's tons of soccer schools and clubs. Of course you are gonna get a few very talented people on their field when there's so many trying. It's a matter of throwing bodies at the problem.

>>279635425
lol, pic unrelated, wtf

>>279635196
I hate the western obsession with "shape language." It's much less important than they give it credit for, and in many cases, it can be tossed aside entirely.

>>279635580
It's a concept in Japan too you fucking moron. They design based on silhouettes too.

>>279633681
>Amerikomi are lauded for their full colors
i feel like the japs are the outliers here in sticking with b&w come hell or high water

>>279633681
There hasn't been a single good comic in the last 15 years. Like in the 2010s people were praising Saga and Hawkeye, that's how awful shit had gotten. Even artists like mignola had begun to fall off. It's impossible for anyone to be a fan of comic books, doesn't matter if they're American or yuropoor. Western cartoons are similiarly bad and not designed to be remembered. I am extremely wary of anyone who uses /co/.
>Amerikomi are lauded for their full colors and extremely detailed backgrounds among japanese fans for example.
This is also definitely wrong, many famous comics like sin city do not do this.

I legitimately think it has something to do with not writing in Japanese. Something about brushstroke order and the way the wrist moves is irreplicable.

>>279634124
Draw threads are just tumblr colonies. When is the last time a draw thread produced any OC of value? Never, that's when.

>>279629919 (OP)
Because Western cartooning is only practiced by online indies, porn sketchers, the French, and old industry lifers in Burbank now. CalArts was a good industry pipeline school for awhile, but between converting the art into a profit assembly line that arr rook same, and injecting unpalatable social politics into the plot, it poisoned the well. That and the only other real pivot artists can do is CG/background work. A surplus of artists, a deficit of jobs, eventually people start taking the path of least resistance instead of pulling the ripcord and settling in for a life of grocery bagging or warehouse drudgery.

So now you have swathes of people who are trying to appeal to the masses (who've moved on to anime and manga) without really doing that art style their whole career or developing it naturally as an artist. It's rough, it's cheap, it's easy, it appeals to slopmeister normalfags who don't care about "muh keyframes muh weight muh fluid motion" and buy the Temu hoodie after.

>the Onimai avatarfag is here
Good fucking grief.

>>279635845
>/co/ tourist is butthurt already

>>279634653
It's a misconception that toon artstyles are easier to draw than anime
I challenge you to draw Lisa Simpson's seemingly simple face
The slightest line out of place makes it look wrong

>>279636146
cartoony artstyles in general are deceptively simple looking and require a good handle on drawing fundamentals , anime included.

>>279630685
I hate that they stopped drawing noses
Anime noses are cute when not super large / detailed

>>279629919 (OP)
stop making this thread, retard, i've already proved you wrong on /ic/ and you come running to here? pathetic

>>279629919 (OP)
Its assimilation, most western artists simply arent weeb enough to learn or accept drawing proper "anime". They reject following how it should look and keep to their western individualism in guise of "muh style". Theres a lot of talk about soul and "genes" but its really just the wholehearted interest, love, and acceptance of the culture surrounding anime.

>>279636376
Can someone link to his shitty bait thread on /ic/?
Is this the "cognitive resolution" spammer again?

>>279636432
what a bunch of schizo blabber, shut the fuck up, the reason why most westerns can't draw passing anime is because anime faces are inherently flat. The west has a tradition of portrait drawing that is simply not present in the east. This is why in anime the face is simplified while everything else has alot of detail in (poses, ornaments, clothing folds, so on, this is why you have characters with lots of belts anyway), meanwhile westerners put alot of focus on the face and and everything else is rough strokes.

>>279636521
None of this is true.

>>279636559
Everything I said is true any page of sakura card captors proves me right

>>279636521
really makes you think.

>>279636146
Anything simplified is a pain to draw because every mistake sticks out like a sore thumb

Westerners suck at anime because they're in western communities that constantly spout wrong information about it and japan

>>279636661
What 220 years of isolation does to a nation.

>>279636521
What are you even on about. If they can draw a renaissance portrait level face they can draw a more simplified anime face. Its simply they dont want to due to deeply rooted aesthetic preference. Thats why east asians always have an edge when learning anime style, they grew up with it.

>>279635196
I was force fed this infantile shit when I was in game design. Hate it.

>>279636521
Just because the form is simplified doesn't make it flat. One of the mistakes people make when drawing it is making it flat in the first place
>meanwhile westerners put alot of focus on the face and and everything else is rough strokes.
Nips do this shit all the time having 90% of the detail in the head face and hair

>>279636932
Anime renderslop puts all the effort in the face and head and leaves the rest comparatively simple, yeah, no idea what the other fag is talking about

>>279636822
>What are you even on about. If they can draw a renaissance portrait level face they can draw a more simplified anime face.
THAT IS THE POINT THEY CAN'T. They can't help themselves, they keep rendering and rendering the muscles until it doesn't look like anime anymore, the tradition of portrait drawing from which they learned from won't let them stop working on the piece

>>279636932
>Just because the form is simplified doesn't make it flat. One of the mistakes people make when drawing it is making it flat in the first place
>>meanwhile westerners put alot of focus on the face and and everything else is rough strokes.
>Nips do this shit all the time having 90% of the detail in the head face and hair

This is a lie, this is a lie propagated by the meme that all anime have le big kawaii ugoo eyes, carefully look at anime faces, and I mean carefully like, i've-read-drawing-with-the-right-side-of-the-brain-carefullu. The eyes most of the time look like stickers not orbs. The hair LOOKS detailed but it isn't, it is just one big shape, the spikes and shit fool you into think it is detailed but it really isn't

>>279636661
back when western art appreciated beauty

>>>/ic/7593899
>>>/ic/7597359
Did you bring your retardation here because no one was giving you (You)s

>>279637187
>THAT IS THE POINT THEY CAN'T. They can't help themselves
So I was right, they cant assimilate

>>279637187
You're sounding like one of those meme 'infograph' images right now. Anime eyes don't stick out like human eyeballs obviously but they still have plenty of form and dimensionality. If you can't sense the 3d dimensionality in anime it might just be a skill issue honestly

>shit thread
>avatarfag is back
How does /a/ do it?

>>279637489
>Anime eyes don't stick out like human eyeballs obviously but they still have plenty of form and dimensionality
you're thick in the skull aren't you, my point is that western artists will try to pass the threshold considered "acceptable" for anime, this is why it stops looking like anime and more like blizzard concept art

>>279632541
Yeah in the western conception copying another person is deeply shameful, even as a non-commercial amateur, and is asking for a lawsuit. Meanwhile in Japan they pick a "sensei" to copy and then develop further once they master that, and that's normal and respected.

It's the difference between building a house from scratch or building off a plan you copied from another house you like.

>>279637839
I'm thick in the skull for not thinking that anime is flat? You're a fucking retard that doesn't know anime or art. By the way anime hair has plenty of form and detail too. In fact one could easily say that anime faces and hair have a lot more form than western animation counterparts. What's next, anime can't have noses?

>>279636521
This is also a factor. If I go to color something I start layering on planes and hue differences like how portrait painting is done. Even when I try to simplify it to keep it more anime looking it's never simplified enough to pass. Anime faces are smashed flat home base plates. the minute you start defining planes, you're done. Even in painterly styles in Japan they keep the face simple and flat. but the rest of the body might be hyper detailed.

Look at one punch man, how Tamaki can have the body super detailed out but the face is still just a couple of lines. this is pervasive in anime style. So when you have western art education and approach anime all your instincts become pitfalls. You can know this, and intentionally keep the face flat and undetailed, but then there will always be a nagging voice in your head that there is a discrepancy between the face's style and the style of everything else, the face looks unfinished by comparison.

>>279638082
**Tatsumaki

>>279631534
That one genuinely tricked me

>>279630851
Aside from one or two hundred small ateliers, proper art isn't even taught in the West anymore.

>>279638082
>Anime faces are smashed flat home base plates.
They're rounded not flat, go study figures
>western art education
What western art education are you referring to? The same resources that japanese artists end up using? Or do they have special art education of their own?

>>279638266
Why are you being so disingenuous, why do you go against what your eyes can clearly see?

>>279638292
if you think that's a flat plane then I don't know what to tell you, seriously

>>279630967
>Sees woman
>Thinks man
Mindbroken. Consider suicide.

>>279629941
/ic/bros... /a/ is making fun of us again...

>>279638335
I picked this random screenshot from one of the threads in the catalogue, please tell me how in any shape or form are the planes of this face defined

I really like Shoushimin's design. The faces look good from the profile without the retarded cat-look that so many anime/manga use these days, and there's just enough shading from the mugshot to tell there's actually a nose.

If you want to learn how to draw anime you should copy anime.
>>>/ic/7576008

>>279638462
>If you want to learn how to draw anime you should copy anime.
Are there people who think otherwise?

>>279629919 (OP)
Western style triggers my AGP far more than eastern desu

>>279638393
Obviously there's a shadow on the nose

>>279638515
oh boy you have no idea

>>279638515
Some people think that you should master the boxes first, then perspective, next anatomy, shading and color before finally starting to draw anime.

>>279638393

>>279638609
cool, none of that is in the actual drawing though, if it was each plane would have a different value, it doesn't, then it is flat.

>>279638266
You don't see how relatively flat that is compared to a typical western portrait? Are you being retarded on purpose?
>what western art education
portrait painting you stupid cunt

>>279638768
You're retarded, and going by your metric a drawing without values has to be flat, which is just flat out wrong
>>279638769
>relatively
back pedalling retard
>what western art education
portrait painting you stupid cunt
also wrong because there's a lot more to education than simply portrait painting

>>279629919 (OP)
>to drawing in anime art style
No such thing, at least not in the way you think is true
Your definition of "anime art style" is merely the most popular general art direction as decided by mass appeal and profitability
Even within Japan however there exists a myriad of different and varied styles. The history of animation is awash with creators borrowing and being inspired by overseas artists. Even more complicated is how different animation industries across the globe have developed and how much resources can be reasonably allocated to them
Your issue though is that you think that a western artist intrinsically wants to hide the fact they're eastern influenced and think it's something to be ashamed of, yet when you see western inspired Japanese art you either think nothing of it or percieve it as "ugly"
Which is all to say, if you believe you can do better then pick up a pencil

>>279638814
>You're retarded, and going by your metric a drawing without values has to be flat, which is just flat out wrong
no you are fucking retarded, I can draw contour lines in a flat piece of piece then it will have volume, that is essentially what you did, you pout contour lines on a flat drawing, the drawing itself does not have these lines therefore it is flat

>>279638768
>rendering is the only way to imply form
sasuga westoid artists

>>279638862
Lmao, I don't even know how to argue with you. holy fuck. You're the OP of the thread right?

>>279638863
>pick a flat drawing
>put contour lines that are not present in the actual drawing
>see guys it actually has volume
no it doesn't, you added it, fucking retarded as shit argument, holy fuck

>>279638893
Do the eyes and mouth not have contour to them?

>>279638836
>you have to be a chef to tell that food tastes bad

>>279638887
The lines you drew were not represented in the actual drawing, YOU put form in a flat drawing, the actual drawing is flat, it is like as if a kid showed his drawing to the thatcher and the teacher fixed it, it doesn't make the original drawing not flat, you essentially created a new drawing

>>279638921
Are you saying it's only okay for japanese artists to be terrible?
get your head out of your ass you parasite

>>279638941
The form was always there. I merely brought it out. Again do the eyes and mouth not have form to them?

>>279632373
Boys have asses and I have a dick. It just fits.

>>279639053
>I merely brought it out.
Then it wasn't there, any single western teacher would call it flat, every single one, this is my point

>>279638393
>mouth curvature
>nose shadow
>eye ratio
>rounding of eye edges
its all there its just subtle and efficient

Western people might not be able to draw but Japanese people definitely cannot write

>>279639100
tell me where the the front of the left side of her face ends and the side of her left side going to the ear begins and how it is indicated (hint it isn't)

>>279638523
Neck yourself tranny

>>279639099
It's not flat though. I only figured it out because of the facial features.
>>279639173
Again it's all in the facial features. anime is just basic art fundamentals

>>279639295
Dude, there no indications whatsoever of these lines in actual drawing, you can put red lines over it because you know how a cranium is, but it is not portrayed, why is this so hard for you do understand this

>>279638814
I can't even argue with someone this dedicated to being a retard. Are you constipated?

>>279631534
>>279638226
What about this series isn't Japanese?

>>279629919 (OP)
Because western artist primarily draw inspiration from other westerners, not anime. Hobbyists start drawing by imitating western media like modern cartoons and old disney movies. Professionals learn their craft by following on the steps of classical western artists. When anime has an influence on their artstyle, it is often as a superficial aesthetic born from a small number of sources, halfheartedly latched on top their western canon fundamentas.
Japanese artist, on the other hand, grow up consuming and surrounded by japanese art made by japanese artists. The "anime" style is not limited to just a handful of popular series' aesthetics for them. It is something they can immerse themselves from a plethora of sources and that can shape the way they develop as artists from the very beginning.

>>279630851
Funnily enough, most profesional japanese mangaka and illustrators have no formal training in the arts. They are also very open about the fact they never bother with fundamentals and all they did was autistically copy their favorites until they figured out what worked for them.

>>279639465
So nips can only be good at nip art because they're not exposed to other art styles?

>>279636521
If any of this is true, then why can't anyone west of Paris draw a cartoon worth a fuck without it being fagged up? If it's so Goddamned simple, then how are a bunch of nips who supposedly can't draw well CONSTANTLY showing up powerhouse animation studios in California? Square that circle.

>>279629919 (OP)
Because Japanese artists are more skilled and not only drawing "anime" style but drawing other styles as well.
You can always tell when a Japanese artist draws western characters, the art has a certain type of flare.

>>279639342
But it is portrayed by the placing of the features What don't you understand?
>>279639348
Can you point out the part where I was wrong? Because unlike you I'm completely right

Honestly you two are definite proof why westerners fail at anime. You refuse to acknowledge it does have underlying construction and form and it's much more like this so called 'western art' that you hate so much than not. But sure go ahead and basic art fundamentals that's definitely not used at all for anime

>>279639162
I'd agree with this. As a /lit/fag I've read a lot of Japanese literature, both classic and contemporary. Some of the classics are great (Snow Country, No Longer Human, Temple of the Golden Pavilion), but there's not a single contemporary Japanese author who is decent, none, and I've read about a dozen including the big names (probably the only one normalfags will recognize is Murakami, who is a pile of trash boomer hack.) Words stacked in front of each other or a premise does not a story make. They fundamentally don't seem to understand the point of a novel. And that's not even scratching the surface of the abyss like LN or manga.

For comparison, I've even read a few good African authors. Ironically the only 2 decent Japanese authors are the LoGH/Arslan guy (Yoshiki Tanaka) and Kino no Tabi's author Keiichi Sigsawa. Ironically both do LN, not "real novels." The japanese novel space is abysmal.

Authors like Mieko Kawakami are a disgrace. Some of their most celebrated authors who get international translations, and they write like a high schooler's creative writing assignment. Just pure drivel. A waste of paper.

>>279639173
The other anon already did it.
There isnt any because its by design, something like a shadow or line to indicate the left side of her face would make the character look less cute. Its not in any way flat, everything about the image is implying a 3d space. What do you want? its a 2d drawing on a flat screen.

>>279639527
>If it's so Goddamned simple
because it is not simple, it is a different set of skills, when a western draw a cartoon there's a nagging voice on their head saying that it should be 3d, it should clearly portray form because this is what they are taught, this is the western tradition of drawing. A western artist taught in this tradtion will consider and anime drawing unfinished this is my whole ass point in this thread

>>279639225
I mean just look at this and tell me it doesn't trigger agp...

>>279639585
>Some of their most celebrated authors who get international translations, and they write like a high schooler's creative writing assignment
I have noticed this. Always very juvenile, oversimplified. I assumed it was on purpose but I guess not.

>>279639661
>There isnt any because its by design

I never said it wasn't

>something like a shadow or line to indicate the left side of her face would make the character look less cute.
I never said it wouldn't

>Its not in any way flat

It is considered flat by western tradition

>everything about the image is implying a 3d space.

i'm talking specifically about anime faces

>What do you want? its a 2d drawing on a flat screen.

if you ever took a class/watched a video about a western teacher teaching you how to draw they'll repeat a billion times how your objective is to portray 3d form in a flat surface

>>279638393
Are you kidding? You can see the brow bone, the epicanthal fold, where the mouth sits on the face, where the nose is indicated, and most obvious of all, the position of the eyelids and irises which instantly tell you what direction you're looking at her from.
>>279639173
You can easily infer this using the other side of the face and where the jawline grows steeper.

>>279629919 (OP)
Anime style > cartoon

>>279639465
>Funnily enough, most profesional japanese mangaka and illustrators have no formal training in the arts.
No wonder most manga have shit art.

>>279639533
I mean if they draw cartoon cartoons, sometimes it looks alright, fluid, like if they imitate mickey mouse and friends, but other times it looks stiff and awkward.

>>279635845
Oh yeah, that pedophile

>>279639729
Japanese novels tend to be meandering, pointless, almost like SoL. Writing for the sake of writing, words for the sake of words. It's tasteless, textureless white bread in book form.

Speaking of, nips love extremely bland white bread. They'll eat a slice of plastic-wrapped cake-like white ass bread and go oooiiishiii!!!!! like they do with their bowls of fucking rice. And their literature is exactly the same.

>>279639742
Well then if theyre able to create something hyper detailed but not the opposite is just a skill issue, and if they can but dont want to then thats just some innate preference issue.

>>279639774
You are delusional dude. Just stop. You're worse than the people simping for modern "art" that is just a blank canvas or a splash of paint.
>no dude there is totally meaning and intention here, the artist is a genius!
You're doing their job for them.

>>279639585
There is no fundamental, single point to a novel.
There is nothing wrong with not liking japanese writing but most people who bitch about its quality are either people upset non-western storytelling traditions exist or people who mistake the quality of localisations with the quality of the actual writing. It is very tiring.

>americans are now trying to force "no true anime style" to shove their fake netflix shit down our throats
lmao never happening get fucked

>>279629941
I'm telling!

>>279640035
>no argument
Concession acknowledged but not accepted.

>>279640001
>Writing for the sake of writing, words for the sake of words
That's the appeal. It's like throat singing, man, art doesn't have to carry a logical meaning, as long as it carries emotion.

Still the same artstyle

>>279629919 (OP)
I think both are nice, and we should all love each other.

>>279631065
The OP image is subtle bait, the left supposed "western style" image is closer to the contemporary dominant moe style, the right is a seperate trend present in different manga.

>>279640068
>no gaijin you just don't understand, the rice isn't plain, the chef trained 10,000 hours in rice-making, this rice is special triple-washed high quality rice cooked perfectly
>it isn't plain!!!! it has delicate flavor gaijin not appreciate!!!!
Go fuck yourself. the rice is plain, the literature is boring, and the anime faces are flat.

>>279640001
White bread is just sugar bread and tastes very sweet. Texture-wise it's usually really fluffy and spongy unless its stale. White bread's fault is just that it isn't healthy at all like whole grain bread which at least has some vitamins and nutrients in it.

>>279640119
>we should all love each other.
Definitely no, I don't want western stuff here and by posting it here I am only being made to hate it more.

>>279640101
That anon is probably the kind of guy that believes literature only has a meaning if it is propaganda or a moral fable.

>>279640156
>burger who has never tasted real food using food analogy
Every time

>>279640156
>plain
Simple
>boring
Down to earth

>>279640312
Westerners can't draw, but Japanese people can't write.

/thread

>>279640357
Are you implying that all westerners are good writers? The only solid modern authors are either germans of french. Others barely make a dent in human culture.

>>279629919 (OP)
>anime
>semi-realistic proportions
also 80s anime was better than generic moeblobs

>>279640393
I'm implying there are certain things each group does better than the other in this context, smoothbrain.

>>279639726
Yep. Got me there. This 2D person is literally me, because I have a 2D personality. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go put on my stockings and get gatekept out of a community I gatekept people out of last year.

>>279640401
Ironic considering the left side of that picture IS a moeblob.

>>279629919 (OP)
The difference is love for a 2D character
It doesn't come out right if you don't have enough

hime cut

>>279637929
I just said that copying your favorites is the norm all over the world you dumb nigger.

>>279639726
Reminder to everyone ITT that gen alpha will bring back skinny pants and flannel shirts

>>279635603
No, you don't understand the kind of abstract jewish theory that gets spouted in American universities and high schools where you have to learn about the SOOTHING effect of curved lines.

>>279643702
I'm well aware. The Japanese are no stranger to the concept of certain lines and shapes evoking certain feelings.

>>279643730
I had to learn this shit AS AN ENGINEER. I'm mad.

>>279639420
The author is American. But Love Bullet and Kingdom of Quartz barely even count as "Westerners making manga" when both are ethnically Asian.

>>279643778
>it's a seething non-artist crying about being exposed to some artistic doctrine (which most people can and do choose to break with in the course of making architecture/paintings)
Never fucking mind, carry on with your mindless prattle.

>>279635603
He's criticizing the obsession, not the doctrine, which is a fair point. Some retards seem to think it is a design silver bullet.

>>279631430
The best part about Raita is when he draws one of his ridiculous females next to a girl with normal anatomy.

why do people even care about drawing nowadays when genAI exists?
Fucking retards wasting time "learning to draw"

>>279636661
Ok cool but the western art doesn't have sound like the Japanese one has.

>>279629919 (OP)
Western artists don't understand that up to a point, less detail = cuter.

If you want to make characters ugly, draw all of the pores, give a prominent nose, big ears, wrinkles, etc.
If you want to make characters cute, especially in a feminine manner, give them pure skin with no blemishes and draw the nose as a little triangle or even just a dot on the face.

Also, they're cowards who are afraid of offending insecure narcissistic old women by portraying femininity at its peak.

>>279643662
Where is this from? She's cute.
conto 2025 doesn't help much search for source

>>279629919 (OP)
Westerners place more emphasis on personal expression through having a unique style. Japs learn to copy the idealized, perfected, settled-upon style. I've learned to draw both, and it's just a matter of how strict you are when it comes to following a formula. Perhaps in some way it's because japs place more of an emphasis on discipline and obedience relative to westerners.

>>279646103
>I've learned to draw both
pyw

>>279646147
No

westerners are capable of making authentic looking anime/manga styles but yes, often times you'll see people make uncanny hybrids that look like a western style attempting to be eastern but obviously not making the cut. i think depending on the person, it's either a deliberate ignorance to fully commit toward something eastern, or someone currently incapable of understanding the core ideas that make something spiritually eastern in its essence.

>>279646178
Please

>>279645854
It's probably Conto, a relatively well known Brazilian artist who's been active for a long time.
He's incredibly skilled and can draw anime flawlessly while also not looking like a cheap imitation
https://x.com/poderdohokuto
https://www.pixiv.net/users/15938635

>>279646188
It tends to be South/Central Americans and Italians/French people who can nail the anime style. Every other non-Asian tends to fail somehw.

>>279646536
I see...
cute art from a br monkey

>>279643778
Triangle is da STONGEST shape

>used to draw a lot as a kid
>stopped around uni and never again, too busy
is it too late for me bros
i feel like you can only be good at drawing if you kept drawing all your life

>>279638462
>>279638515
>>279638552

>>279647016
the worst thing is that yoshinari does both indeed

>>279646571
i think it's unfair to say it's every single person outside of those who are incapable. but yes it's truthfully apparent that those specific regions more often can manage it.

>>279647091
that's his personal anatomy studys? that looks like shit lol. even i could draw better than that. is this guy a fraud or using IA or sth?

>>279647146
he is an animator and that is his personal sketchbook he did that in like 2 minutes

>also not knowing who yoshinari is

get out of my board

>>279638768
>>279639342
>>279639173
>>279640035
>man who doesn't understand anything about drawings decides to give his opinion on drawings

>>279647146
this is what it looks like when he tries hard.

>>279631559
Avatar was animated by Koreans, so probably they also had influence

>>279636376
>/ic/
There's no one who know how to draw

>>279647632
No, this is what it looks like when he tries hard

>>279646571
From my experience the culture of America specifically makes is stacked against people being able to learn how to draw in a seamless animanga style.
>hyperindividualist mememe mindset that makes people resistant to listening to the critique of others, making even the basic fundies less likely to be mastered
>participation medal generations don't have the grit or work ethic to study consistently
>US art schools have all chopped down their education "family trees" so masters from schools like Art Center have scattered, leaving all art school education lacking
>anyone can be an artist mindset is super prevelant so shitters distrust the "privileged elites" giving them a step-by-step guide to getting good at drawing
>sensitivity combined with ego causes them to shut down and plug their ears instead of actually seeing what makes their art not look like convincing anime/manga

>mug fundies
Just keep struggling on one piece for months like a normal person. The next piece of crap you churn out is going to be better regardless.

>>279645851
I mean why argue about all of this when we could be busy making anime real

>>279632034
I've always felt this way too. It's changing now, especially with younger zoomers, but almost all western "anime" stylization in the past felt like back-handed sentiments at best and outright mockery at worst. I think a lot of "artists" in the west hate that Asia's had them beat both aesthetically and in the public conscious for decades now and like to lash out. Hence those hideous fucking noses.

>>279630700
I fucking hate Tumblr noses.

>>279636661
You should use commercial woodblock prints from the west a fair comparison

>>279645851
If you want to make characters cute, give them fair skin with freckles and draw the nose as a little triangle or even just a dot on the face. Add megane. Cut the hair to the ideal length.
Result? Perfection.

>>279648455
tits too big

>>279648455
Reverse didn't work, who's that artist?

>>279629919 (OP)
Today, I will remind you

>>279648660
nigga, his signature is right there

>>279648760
I can't read japanese...

>>279648751
Honestly? The pink girl is cute

>>279648962
you better learn quick

>>279646536
brazilian jeans are too strong

>>279648751
In all fairness, it's not as bad as I thought it would be, a solid 2/10

>>279649083
What the fuck?
Is she conto?
Her art is great

>>279649119
no, that's another artist, Eudetenis

>>279648660
tsukudani (coke-buta)
>>279648476
仕方が無い

>>279649153
I see...
>>279650347
thanks

I'm not an artist but this is what I have noticed about "trying to draw anime but failing" style
>they literally can't stop themselves from drawing noses
>they draw eyes with big pupils but small irises, the opposite of how most anime does it
>they draw faces with africanoid or amerimutt goblinoid features
I'm sure they can do it right if they wanted, and there are probably plenty of western artists who manage. some of them just don't want to for some reason, which makes them stick out as weird.

>>279631982
I also tried that to take myself from an okay-ish level to a good level and it was gruelling. More recently I'm having way more success just drawing shit no matter how bad it is on a whiteboard with a marker pen and then instantly erasing it and drawing again. I'll try drawing stuff from different angles and try drawing scenes and then if I don't like it I can instantly erase. I keep the marker pen and board near my PC so if I browse /a/ and see some pic I like, I'll try drawing it. Now a marker pen is too thick to be as fine as a pencil, but I ALREADY had fine detail down, because that's easy, and it's forms that are hard. Now, after drawing using a nearby marker and quickly erasing it so I don't live with the shame of how it looks, when I go back to doing pencil sketches, they are suddenly way better because my understanding of form, poses, and 3D space has jumped up. It sounds weird because you're drawing with an implement that has thicker lines and is smudgier than a pencil, but it makes drawing forms way less of a chore, because it's so quick and you can just erase it. Seriously, try this!

>>279647727
Not even his best looking or most complex layout to be fair

>>279649097
If you just watch that 17 minute Amaryllis scene compilation and the Slime Boy compilation but nothing else, it's actually not half bad.

>>279629919 (OP)
the reverse is true as well

>>279629919 (OP)
True for western millennials. Not true for zoomers.

>>279629919 (OP)
Where would this Chau girl be?

>>279643831
Is that what they call "twinkies"?

>>279640082
honestly you can basically just shut down that argument by saying that anime means "japanese animation" as anime is, at least from what i read, is just the Japanese word for animation (in fact the Japanese would most call ALL animation, anime)

>>279648751
>>279649097
The creator recently announced they were broke and starving and had a half-breakdown on social media
As a weeb who went and made her lifelong passion project and as a creator I cannot help but have some respect for her, even if the end product was...questionable

>>279631257
several, but they are clearly anime trying to mimic cartoons.

>>279651272
they call overseas cartoons "kaigai anime" (海外アニメ) so they definitely make a distinction

>>279645851
British comics are like the anti-anime: as ugly as possible for comic rather than cute effect. Pic related is like the perfect inverse of an anime girl.

>>279648751
This show is bad, but the art isn't. It's nice enough except for the hideous fat midget. It still doesn't look like anime though even though it's clearly trying to be. I can't put my finger on why. The noses are even small and yet it still seems clearly to be Western for some inexplicable reason (ignoring the fat character).

>>279629919 (OP)
They forget to squint their eyes.

>>279629919 (OP)
Shonen anime vs moe anime

>>279629919 (OP)
There is literally a white guy who works at Science Saru, it's just shitty artists. And western studios will only greenlight trash.

>>279651393
>ignoring the fat character
Fat characters have been in anime forever you dunce, you just personally don't like fatties.

>>279651207
I went to school with a chick who was actually good at capturing anime style, and I'm a millennial. But she was def an outlier out of most.

>>279651282
Fuck off. All femishits are unrespectable cancer that would ruin everything beautiful and deserve starving to death.

>>279651434
>you just personally don't like fatties
I mean yes, but it's the specific way she's fat that codes her as Western looking. What I can't explain is why the pink haired character also looks Western. She's drawn in a cutesey style with big eyes and a small nose, but it still looks like there's something Western but extremely subtle going on (line weight? shadowing? shape of face?) I can't grasp. If you can pin down why even a character like that still looks Western then you can explain what the real differences are.

With western psuedo-anime style shows I think they have a problem with 'over consistency' if that makes any sense.
Take Death Note for example, characters can have very well defined noses and sometimes the same characters can have very simplified noses depending on what is needed moment to moment.
While in western shows there is a narrow range the animators are willing to have their characters be in so in they look accurate to the model sheet but not right for the specific moment.

>>279651625
That's called being "on-model" I think.

>>279651282
I have no sympathy

>>279649097
>>279648751
Cute.
Would fuck

>>279651642
Yes but I mean overly, and it's not that the western attempts can't go off model it's that they return to being on model inappropriately.

>>279651433
>And western studios will only greenlight trash.
I think this gets overlooked a lot, especially because it is counterintuitive to culture war bullshit. Remember that while a lot of these western directors and animators are super woke or at least pretend to be, the old Boomer/GenX suits who actually run all American media are turbo racist, especially against the Japanese, due to all the 80's scaremongering about how the nefarious nips were going to use their economic boom to take revenge against us with their better cars putting Detroit out of business etc. etc. Making your show look too accurately anime is a no-go for these types, and they decide what actually gets funded.

>>279629919 (OP)
You now remember Kappa Mikey.
I'm sorry.

>>279651965
I read a post here talking about some american comic artists in the 90s or something with some project to cash in on "japanime" by drawing a comic in mango style. the artists were skilled enough to copy it exactly, but their editors kept telling them it looked too girly and to redraw it until they ended up with the "how to draw anime" look.

>>279651965
>Remember that while a lot of these western directors and animators are super woke or at least pretend to be, the old Boomer/GenX suits who actually run all American media are turbo racist
The modern paradigm is the Boomer paradigm. The hippy generation that was the first to say "don't trust anyone over 30". There are huge swaths of the public who don't seem to want to acknowledge that time didn't stop in the 1960s.

The reality is that the entirety of the left regardless of the host culture or the year is obsessed with stomping out all "alternative spaces", and they do this by labeling those alternative spaces as istaphobic/bourgeoise + some good ol' left wing projection about how authoritarian they are.

>>279652115
Samefag here.

The civil rights act is the Boomer's most sacred of sacred cows. Anyone who believes otherwise is living in a fantasy world.

>>279651696
>Western 'cartoon' industry

>>279651973
I unironically like the theme song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wu15Vm97k8&ab_channel=BEATCRUSADERS-Topic

>>279652139
The Civil Rights Act wasn't passed by Boomers retard. They couldn't even vote yet when it was passed. The first election they had a serious say in was fucking Reagan. Some Boomers hadn't even been fucking BORN when the Civil Rights at was passed. Jesus Christ people pick up a history book.

>>279652219
I'm well aware. However, unlike Silent who was kinda split on it, the Boomers worship at its alter.

>>279651494
One answer could be that it aims for the wrong kind of stylization given its genre and target audience. People don't mention this, but a lot of careful consideration goes into designing the eyes in anime and manga. Settei will often feature multiple drawings and instructions pertaining specifically to the eyes (see next post).

Magical girl shows are kodomo shows that emphasize the youth and cuteness of the characters, and as such the eyes are usually given a big doe-eyed, jewel-like design. Outer corners of the eyes "droop" downward and overall roundness of eye and inner components are emphasized to give a gentle look (known as tareme). The irises take up nearly the whole eye, the pupils are blown wide and dilated, if not outright subsumed into the rest of the eye/eliminated. Highlights are strategically placed to give the eyes life and emphasize "cuteness".

Has its deepest and purest origins in the stuff Tezuka was drawing, e.g Bambi, his shoujo works from the 50s etc. Compare pic related left with right, a relatively modern iteration of a show like Precure.

It is actually kind of hard to get right unless you're studying directly from the source. With Spyce the eyes are large but their design is seems plain compared to anime. I think their mistake was making the pupils much too small and too conspicuous, the irises themselves could be larger and wider too; an extra highlight could be added. Also the eyes could be inched further apart.
You would then need to make a few other adjustments but I've gone on for long enough.

>>279652266

>>279629919 (OP)
I like both.

>>279631257

>>279651625
>>279651642
Thats because they are just swapping assets over a skeleton instead of actually animating stuff.

>>279651393
You just know the midget was supposed to be a stand in for a loli. Because these people want to depict the small character present in many anime but are allergic to actual lolis because they are too beautiful.

>>279652017
why don't you try digging it up?

>>279651244
Dunno, but she’s pretty cute.

>>279652471
lol no
She is a fat midget because that goes against the traditional beauty standards for women. Thats all there is to it. They don't actually think small characters are cute, thats why she is small.

>>279647727
Gorgeous.

>>279651973
Never forgot

>>279634641
You started watching anime in the 2000's, right?

>>279635002
Compare Adventure Time with K-on.

>>279636661
>>279648121
>commercial
if we're supposed to believe that japanese prints were/are masterpieces, then professional prints are fair game. here is a 1653 btw

>>279629919 (OP)
I don't understand why more don't just learn using Japanese materials even if they are going to diverge a lot. I assume many skip them because they are a bit extra research. But the result allows you to learn quicker, draw everything with ease instead of taking hours, and make an appealing product. This is in part due to the Japanese directly incorporating the discoveries of Renaissance artists into their material. The west is plagued with shit art and it is even more crushing knowing that the people who make it waste inordinate amounts of time on making even one character. It is why stuff like Cal Arts had to be popularized for animation, these guys literally can not create anything else at the speed required for drawing animation without it being excruciating. The land of free thinkers is ironically more set in its ways than the ultraconservative Japanese.

>>279653136
What Japanese materials would you recommend people learn from?

>>279652471
She's a fucking dwarf, that's what they look like
Honestly they should have went further and given her a beard. She's also probably the most likeable character of the 4 main girls because she isn't a stuck-up bitch

>>279653159
I personally like this Japanese channel called Hide. Won't necessarily teach you the fundamentals for 3d shapes, lines, and such. But I find the channel to have helped me a lot in learning how to construct the human body efficiently. In general, I think animation resources would be the best. This is because they are made to teach you the most efficient ways to make something that really looks good. It isn't Japanese, but I'd also recommend Proko for the basics. I also found the explanations in some Marco Bucci videos helpful for learning art. While Japanese sources are the best, you may still want to listen to some English videos that aren't just meme tutorials because being able to understand something natively I feel can help it get across to you. Ideally you want to learn from a variety of sources until you find a way of explaining a specific subject that clicks for you. If you watch enough Japanese videos and art tutorials, YouTube should start recommending you the channels where they have entire videos of different sections of anatomy. I've found some of these helpful, although I don't always remember the names of the channels.

>>279653228
A character could still be a dwarf and be used as a stand in for a loli. There is a pretty good chance the wanted to mimic the height range of your average anime cast. But needed a reason other than age for a character to be short because of not wanting to make a loli.

>>279653421
I get what you mean, but her being a dwarf is an important part of her character arc. She's also most mature of the four so I doubt they even thought of her being misconstrued as a loli.

>>279630474
>It is the writing style that is difficult, if not outright impossible to imitate.

The hardest part is the fact that anime is filled with stuff that is straight up taboo in the west like showing blood in stuff aimed at children and sexualization of underage characters

>>279634578
>>279652730

>>279630851
>>279639465

>>279653362
I thought you was going to suggest solely japanese resources, Most people that want to learn anime do a mix a both, using japanese resources to get the stylization and simplification down while using western resources for overall fundamentals for 3d. It's kind of the same for japanese learners though I believe, they always recommend western resources themselves. I honestly don't know how many times I've went over a japanese book and it's literally just loomis. Speaking of animation there is one book I'd really like but it hasn't been scanned yet, it's meant to be a sort of training/skill test for people looking to get into the industry.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%A2%E3%83%8B%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B9%E3%82%AD%E3%83%AB%E6%A4%9C%E5%AE%9A%EF%BC%88%E3%82%A2%E3%83%8B%E6%A4%9C%EF%BC%89%E5%85%AC%E5%BC%8F%E3%83%86%E3%82%AD%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88-%E3%83%88%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B9%E3%83%BB%E3%82%BF%E3%83%83%E3%83%97%E5%89%B2%E3%82%8A%EF%BC%96%E7%B4%9A%E3%83%BB%EF%BC%95%E7%B4%9A%E7%B7%A8-NAFCA/dp/4991379202

>>279653675

>>279635580
>I hate the western obsession with "shape language." It's much less important than they give it credit for, and in many cases, it can be tossed aside entirely
>I say while I watch my upteenth blue haired cool-headed character and red haired hot-headed character

>>279630685
Noses are hard to master, but necessary for achieving maximum cuteness.

>>279651393
-small irises
-hair is predominantly outline, little to no layering, there's a lot of split locks of hair in Precure's and Endro with small spikey protrustions that go in the direction of their hair, but Spice has mostly just the outline of the hair with random curls going wherever
-clothing is generic and lacks detail, Precure and Endro have ruffles in their shirts and skirts that go in and out and billow and bloom, Spice is flat and undecorated and franly lacking in discernability. Endro's pink girl has ovaloid triangular metal pauldrons with gold highlights and a sheen, Spice pink girl has a semicircle brown shoulder of seemingly indistinct material from the rest of her clothing. There's very little detail in each of the characters clothes to look at. Precure's mermaids have multicolored and patterned fishtails whereas Spice has monocolored tails with one or two tiny scales drawn in for detail.
-posing isn't as dynamic. I'm not very proficient in understanding perspective or foreshortening or whatever but the Spice pictures look a bit flat to me. Leads to it feeling like it has a lack of three dimensionality.
+oddly enough, both Precure and Endro have a little white/foggy filter over them whereas Spice is unfiltered. I wonder if this shitty fog/whatever filter contributes to the anime feel?

I'm sure an actual artist could find better or more valid reasons than I could with my uninformed opinions

>>279647632
>>279647727
Based Yoshinari's a*yan goddess more than 2 decades ago. He does it better than the most westerners in the industry.

>>279631607
anon be like
>finno-uralic 98% mongoloid 2%

Often isn't what I'd say. But sometimes I confirm a hunch that an artwork was chinese/korean from the style alone, whereas the west is just a formless blob of non-asian to me.

>>279654077
There is a small dedicated group of /co/ users who are desperate to fuck these characters and have attempted to make a visual novel a la snoot game, but they seem to have dropped development in late 2024 after making a few designs, animations, and scenarios.
very odd group of fellows these people are

>>279654371
There are a bunch of Chinese, Taiwanese, and Korean mangaka who simply publish under simple Japanese pen names and literally no one knows because they have primarily consumed nip style art and replicated it from a young age. Especially the zoomers/young millenials, who have less hangups about being weebs and moving to Japan to work. There are plenty (even Westerners) already working in animation studios, even key framing and shit but for manga when it's just one person, they're encouraged to not use their legal names since even Japanese authors usually don't.

>>279631559
I like how both Teen Titans and Avatar look. I think they were trying to create their own art style that was obviously inspired by anime but was still obviously it's own thing and that's not a bad goal. But it seems like a lot of people see Teen Titans and Avatar and think the artists tried and failed to make it look like Japanese anime.

Avatar in particular I really like the look of and the art style they went with works better for the sort of character acting animation they went with. That said I've seen Japanese artists make fanart of the Avatar characters and obviously it looks different but still nice.

>>279654816
I do remember seeing the special features bonus disc of Avatar and how the Korean studio that did the art for the show tried their best to imitate an anime art style because that's why they grew up with and that's also what the directors wanted to go for

>>279654816
I only know about avatar from that porn parody game but the characters in it look ugly. they're all brown and they have those ugly piggy noses.

>>279640357
Firstly the western vs the japanese dichotomy doesn't work and very much unfair. Secondly it's an oversimplification even if we took the dichotomy.
And I would like to know which contemporary "western" writers you consider are good. Please don't mention anything about David Foster Wallace.

>>279635283
My town has a Japanese sister city and every year our local elementary would do an art exchange with an elementary school from our sister city in Japan and EVERY YEAR OUR KIDS GOT MOGGED. Genuinely embarrassing and I felt so bad for the Japanese kids that would have to put up our kid's gift artwork on display . . . or maybe they were laughing about it and feeling good about themselves I dunno. They sent us cute things, obviously made by kids but surprisingly nice. I don't live there anymore so I wonder if they are still participating in the annual elementary art mogging.

>>279654867
then I stand corrected

>>279654941
some of the characters have rounder notices, mostly if they come from certain areas of the setting but a lot of the characters had pretty normal noses I thought

The only western artist that I know of that managed to nail the Japanese style 100% is Otaku-Vs/Peepochan on youtube

>>279654297
He does studies of famous western painters regularly. Seems to be a fan of Neoclassisists.

>>279655020
Brandon Sanderson

>>279639726
A simple lobotomy and/or lead to the brain can help cure that, freak

>>279654077
The lack of detail in the hair and clothing is honestly one of the biggest giveaways to me. Clothing tends to look really flat with no realistic wrinkling. I think if you kept the faces exactly the same but edited the clothing and hair to have more detail it would look TONS better.

An under discussed design difference is that Western animation (especially in these tumblry art styles) is that the head to body ratios tend to be pretty squat. It's pretty rare for characters to be drawn taller than being 5 heads tall. Anime/manga cheats it's body proportions a lot but is more willing to experiment in this regard and it isn't uncommon to have a mixed age cast where the characters are different heads tall to indicate their age beyond just simple height.

>>279629919 (OP)
I think manga and anime have basically supplanted comics entirely in terms of commercial art in the United States so pretty soon the issue will fix itself.
This is a good thing because black and white mangas are more true to the auteur style where a single author can produce it. Less budget and less editorial interference which is what killed American comics. I once read The Walking Dead was only approved because the author lied and said he was planning for there to be an epic alien twist. They literally would not let him make a normal comic about zombies. There's some deep brainrot in the American comic industry and it's not just wokeness.

>>279653362
>In general, I think animation resources would be the best. This is because they are made to teach you the most efficient ways to make something that really looks good.
This is probably true. Hiro (of Akebi), whose art makes people cum, started off training to become an animator, then became a mangaka by a twist of fate.

>>279652266
so many words to say absolutely nothing

>>279651320
This used to be what western cartoons in general were all about. The western tradition optimizes for humor as opposed to the Japanese tradition which optimizes for cuteness/attractiveness. This changed some time in the mid-2010s (which coincides with the time the industry started being run by tumblr millennials). Now the prevalent western style is amateurish looking blobs that are neither aesthetically pleasing nor have character. You might be familiar with what I'm talking about from the "Calarts style" meme. And this is to say nothing of the writing and format of the shows, in which they fail to be either episodic comedies or proper story-based series.

>>279655405
I genuinely prefer the black and white. Color rarely looks good to me, especially digital color.

>>279629919 (OP)
You're not going to make "good" art unless you also love to consume and copy "good" art. You also have to have "good" taste in art and be exposed to it. Imo this will fix itself because American comics and cartoons are dying. Most people think anime or manga when they think 2d commercial art now.

I have a friend who tried to become an artist and his biggest problem was that he never took his consumption of media seriously as a part of learning to create art. We would watch shows together and during the finales he'd get bored and do something else. Maybe adhd meds would've helped him.
It was clear that he wasn't very attentive or possibly passionate about the art he consumed. If you watch a movie or show, and then have the totally wrong interpretation of it's message, how are you going to write a good story yourself? How are you going to draw in a way that conveys emotions if you weren't analyzing why and how people conveyed emotions in your favorite media, or also in real life? The best way to improve is to copy other people then diverge. This is the case for every skill. It seems like Americans skip this phase of becoming fluent in similar art & fundamentals.

>>279655529
Same. I like how it leaves more to the imagination. You get to focus on different details. I also don't think American comics or cartoons have much going for them anymore. Try showing a kid today some American 2d cartoon and they'll probably say it looks ugly if they've been exposed to anime or manga first, this isn't even a weeaboo thing. It was even apparent to me as a kid that everything on Toonami looked way better than Cartoon Network or Nick.

>>279654371
I call that 99% traced from a photograph

>>279655709
I think there's definitely Western stuff that's charming but it's just few and far between especially now. Even something like Disney's traditionally animated 2d films I think would fall flat for young audiences being exposed to them for the first time. They're definitely well animated but the designs are significantly less detailed than a lot of anime which are meant for home viewing. One of my little cousins is really into Demon Slayer and while I don't especially like it I've seen it with them and the crew definitely put a lot of work into it. And I'm not just talking about the 'sakuga' moments I mean things like the fabric patterns on the character's clothing. When was the last time the West put out anything so detailed?

The closest we will probably get is via Powerhouse Animation, located in Texas. And unfortunately they've mostly made/adapted stinkers like Castlevania and Blood of Zeus. But at least they are trying and experimenting. They definitely need way more budget though. Maybe one day they will make something good. There's Fortiche in France but outside of Arcane (which is very different stylistically albeit in a way I personally like) I don't think they really focus on TV series.

It's kinda fun turning anime girls into cartoons. (I don't care about the culture debate at all) Animation is cool.

>>279655862
still works, I might actually like the left better but that might just be the more saturated colors and that the woman seems surprised by her own tits

>>279638368
NTA, but trannies usually wear a similar haircut to hide their masculine features
t. tranny porn gooner

>>279655894
Doing it the other way around is fun to.

>>279655899

>>279655988
I think a lot of people will prefer this but I do think it's important to the narrative for Vicky to be ugly and charmless.

>>279655955
this is nice though

>>279640082
>Read this academic text about comics
>Every other chapter has native scholars talking about their country comics and its unique development
>Then chapter about manga was written by an American and it's all about manga is not unique and foreigners can be mangaka too!!!!!

>>279655806
All the charming western stuff got shelved. Prince of Egypt and Treasure Planet were great but I'm pretty sure Dreamworks and Disney no longer even have American 2d teams. Worse yet I'm pretty sure they also out sourced most 3d art to 3rd world countries too. Basically there's a few guys who oversee third world teams or if they're lucky Canadian ones and those guys hang out in Cali.
The only animation they'll approve to be done in the USA has to be low effort art styles like in cartoons.
We'll probably never get to produce stuff like this in the USA because corporate would outsource anything this expensive, especially for a TV show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aBpVGPzJTI

>>279655955
right looks like a boondocks character lmao

>>279656021
I think it's fun seeing characters in unique styles be it western or Japanese, no matter who the characters are.

>>279655806
Arcane wasn't really a TV series. Iirc it cost a couple hundred million to produce. Riot funded it to get people to play League of Legends. It's an extreme anomaly.
Powerhouse might develop into something cool and I think it's indicative of how American animation is now primarily run by people who grew up on anime and not people who grew up on cartoons or comics.

One thing I noticed with art these days be it western or Japanese but mainly leans to western, is people seem to have like face autism, people for some reason seem to reject any manga/anime or cartoon/comic with like grounded and more realistic facial features for some weird reason like it has to be cartoony but very clean normal cartoony like op picture or like standard anime face for people but anything that like goes more into a goofy look or really grounded look gets rejected by people, I don't understand why. Too much like reality or something? like it's still stylized.

>>279656087
I will never be able to see anything related to Cowboy Bepop without immediately thinking about that stupid babyface

>>279655988
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFoVoXU9FKw

>>279656152
I think Powerhouse still feels Western in it's design sensibilities in a way that is hard to place. Most importantly I think they shed any Western cartoon. influences from their aesthetic library. I suspect they are pulling from more video games instead.Watch Blood of Zeus and tell me you don't see the influence of games like God of War or Prince of Persia Warrior Within. And yes obviously they have all watched and enjoyed anime. If they are influenced by comics it's non capeshit like Hellboy or 100 Bullets.

Unfortunately Powerhouse is an outlier, it's like ONE studio run by people who grew up on anime and alas, I haven't enjoyed any of their projects. But I keep rooting for them to make something I like.

>>279655659
The Western narrative art world is weird because people are allergic to any kind of prescribed practice. The way they act about studying any kind of fundamentals (of course addition to making finished pieces and "having fun", since that seems to be such a concern) is bizzare for anyone in any other field that requires as much practice to gain technique. It's like if a whole generation of musicians thought of learning music theory and practicing scales as just optional or a whole generation of aspiring athletes skipped every other practice and ignored any plyometric exercises. This even goes for inspiration/research as well, a common complaint at /co/ regarding "anime-influenced" comics and shows by actual professionals in the industry is that the anime inspirations are always extremely surface level and always just the nostalgia anime the creator watched in elementary school. These are pros in in the industry but they won't even bother reading or watching anything beyond the extreme mainstream or same 5 anime from their childhood and then put several hundred hours of drawing and thousands of dollars into what comes out as uninspired projects. It's strange, really.

Do you like Katsuya Terada? He draw a nose.

>>279656206
I like how left looks. I'd be curious to see how right looks animated. A lot of the more attractive traditional Western comic book styles look like they'd be expensive to animate just because the faces tend to be more detailed. Pic related is Witchblade, classic 90s bad girl. It's clearly not anime or manga in it's art style, but I do like it. I bring it up because they did make a Witchblade anime and her anime redesign is an absolute downgrade. But we will probably never see anything stylistically similar to the source materials get animated properly. Perhaps people would like it if they were given a chance to be exposed to it.

>>279656263
>It's like if a whole generation of musicians thought of learning music theory and practicing scales as just optional
Tbf formal music theory really is optional. The problem is when they have an active refusal to learn theory and treat theory as hostile. This is a real point of view. They often think theory is prescriptive when in reality it is descriptive. The whole point of the theory is so you can quickly learn how to copy and construct similar music to then piece together your own style. All the good self taught musicians just end up internalizing theory & not having terms to describe it, but none of them skipped it. It's still far less effort and far less frustrating to just learn formal music theory from the get go.
>These are pros in in the industry but they won't even bother reading or watching anything beyond the extreme mainstream or same 5 anime from their childhood and then put several hundred hours of drawing and thousands of dollars into what comes out as uninspired projects. It's strange, really.
Pretty much describes AoT. I feel like the guy never learned how to write multi-dimensional characters. Everyone's written so flat. The ending is morally disgusting and I can't tell if it's because he didn't care about the writing, wrote himself into a corner, or actually believed what he wrote. I want to like AoT so bad because the art and world are cool and then the writing ruins it all.

>>279639162
Anime writing is even worse

>>279629919 (OP)
left looks like this

>>279655294
Well?

>>279631982
Don't just do Loomis heads, apply Loomis to things you like.

>>279656543
I notice the most difference in the blond character and the girl in blue. The blond doesn't have enough difference in the clothing but the hair? Holy shit huge improvement. The head/face looks much more believably anime. The girl in blue probably needs some added shading on her face now to match the shading on the clothing but she also looks tons better. She doesn't look 100% anime but significantly closer.

I commend you for putting in effoty.

>>279631747
>never watched anime other than atypical stuff like akira and ghibli.
The right girl looks like she is from some harem show.

>>279632316
>Umezawa Michiko's work
>try to google his works
>almost all the pictures are AI copies of his style
At least there are the boorus.

This thread just reminds me /vt/ shit ilis getting a lot of /co/ style stuff these days and it's weird.
https://youtu.be/9L0v4cwabZw
https://youtu.be/50R0D5wrjc0
https://youtu.be/NWazB11Az9Y
Are they more appealing to /co/ types than weebs now or something?

>>279631257
From chinks desu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fShcesI3iw

>>279633886
Castlevania looks the most anime out of these.
>>279634040
Vox Machina looks like Avatar artstyle.

>>279634027
>yuri visual novel
into the trash it goes
It also still looks like anime style.

>>279656859
Maybe he means the characters on the tv screens?

>>279633886
They mostly use the same studio, same staff across multiple projects. Mind you I think their stuff looks nice (at least in stills) so I think the main reason it gets so much hate is because it looks repetitive to a lot of viewers who don't realize all these different shows are being made by the same people. Personally I think it's an unfair critique especially when they aren't adapting something with an established art style.

>>279656827
the elf girl is cute but the show is terrible

>>279656351
Worse KJG just like COPEinski

There are some manga imitations made by westerners. They look closer to the animanga style than the anime inspired cartoons.

>>279657113
this looks nice

>>279632034
agreed

>>279648121
or thsi

>>279656543
This scarely resembles my current art, should I start worrying?

>>279657113
I would attribute this to team size.
A couple of passionate weebs can make a comic series alone but for tv animation you might need hundreds of people for a halfway decent "anime".

>>279638523
not sure if your painting is a girl or a boy.

>>279656371
>the art and world are cool
Isayama is one of the worst manga artists to ever get mainstream in terms of draftmanship and style so I hope you're referring to the anime

>>279657284
I don't see it aside from being broadly pseudo anime.
Remember to flip your canvas by the way.

>>279638836
Your example is from a remake of an old series. The style from that remake is almost extinct and only exists in remakes like the one you've shown.

I like Giselle Lagace's art. It's like anime meets Archie. She got so many comments to that effect that she actually got hired by Archie Comics. A lot of her personal projects are in black and white too which only strengthens the comparisons to manga artwork. She has both written and drawn comics as well as worked with people imitating her art style to expand upon her characters and settings, her works are some of the only Western comics I can think of that feels sort of equivalent to a lot of Japanese anime/manga, she's worked on a bunch of raunchy romcoms.

Even though her artwork is nice though and even despite so much of her content being sexual it still doesn't feel like anime/manga somehow. I think she holds back on being authentically horny, or something.

>>279639585
>a few good African authors
bait

>>279639726
It triggers my "disgusting whores who are no good and should be avoided" instincts.

>>279640001
>Speaking of, nips love extremely bland white bread. They'll eat a slice of plastic-wrapped cake-like white ass bread and go oooiiishiii!!!!! like they do with their bowls of fucking rice. And their literature is exactly the same.
I could believe you with the japanese novels part becausr I haven't read a proper novel by a japanese author but your next passage tells me that you just hate the japanese for them heing an "asiatic bug race" which makes your previous statement untrustworthy.

>>279640156
>and the anime faces are flat.
Why are you even on the anime and manga board here? You seem to hate all the stuff that the japanese make.
Why do you even come to /a/ in the first place?

>>279648751
looks like Dungeon Meshi

>>279656827
Holy shit that's ugly.

>>279651320
It's similar with german comics. They also often have giant noses for some reason.

>>279656206
I loved Firestar from the old Spiderman cartoon. One of the few non-anime waifus I had.

>>279629919 (OP)
>inspired by 80s anime
You mean Disney. Which anime is also based on.

>>279656080
That's her clothes not aesthetics.

>>279630685

>>279629919 (OP)
They never learned Japanese eye signs, so their imitations of it look like an adult retard trying to use them.

>>279658739
What are Japanese eye signs and what do they have to do with learning to draw anime?

>Osamą Tezuka's style
>Go Nagai's style
>Toriyama's style
>Tetsuo Hara's style
>Part 1-4 Hirohiko Araki style
>Some obscure styles from Showa and 80s
>Paru Itagaki style
Why people dosen't want to draw in these nowadays?

>>279658815
Toriyama is so iconic anyone trying to copy it will look lime plagiarism

>>279658815
Even Go Nagai doesn't draw in Go Nagai's style nowadays.

>>279635196
>>279635580
>>279636881

>>279658941
My god im glad people are finally catching up with this shape design meme, the pixar movie with tge coolest designs is bugs life because lf the you know what, bugs, notstupid shape design that they used and ruined the dinossaur movie

>>279657345
Come to think of it, Bob Montana's original style for the girls in Archie feels oddly closer to "moe" than De Carlo's. Can't put my finger on it.

>>279659289

>>279659289

>30 hours
>off topic /co/ bait thread is still up
>not a single post of value in the entire thread
Nice one mods, someone is really deadset on killing /a/.

>>279629919 (OP)
Drawfag here. There are exceptions but it's true for like 95% of the artists and I can only assume it's either influence and they're just revealing themselves to be newfags or they prefer the western shit or want to be recognizable as westerners. A lot of western artists I see seem to prefer the characters and stories from anime, but the style from western cartoons. Usually ugly as shit cartoons. If you observe them you'll notice that they never get retweeted as much as the Asians and westerners with proper Eastern style and the artists that DO retweet them are without exception other westerns that refuse draw "Asian" (or can't).

I noticed that the percentage of artists with ugly/weird styles depends on the country too. Slavs and Near Easterners seem to be more capable of adapting the Eastern style whereas US and LATAM artists draw the ugliest shit possible or refuse to change their style. Rest is in-between. No idea how other Germans draw, I legit never met another German "anime artist" in my 30+ years of life.

>>279629919 (OP)
Yaku?

>>279660139
>I legit never met another German "anime artist" in my 30+ years of life.
Is this you then?
https://x.com/Vynn0612

>>279656880
Yeah. They did a whole PV with the cartoony style too. And I think those designs regularly show up in the actual VN

>>279656827
Nah, it leans towards Young Justice. I know people absolutely despise Legendary Defender here but it looked arguably more anime

>>279660295
What you notice with western anime imitations is also that they have a lot more brown characters than anime does.

>>279630685
Noses are wicked cute, though.

>>279629919 (OP)
Western style most time look like Avatar. Not left on that pic

>>279630700
Holy schnozz

West can't understand the concept of cute

>>279657716
Looks kinda Robbie the Reindeer to me

>>279638264
>proper art isn't even taught in the West anymore
you will never make it into any university level art program without extremely strong fundamentals

>>279647146
>IA
Fuck off ESLfag

>>279629919 (OP)
Right screams non-jap to me.

Threads like this are basically just saying, 'Westerners are amazing, and Japanese people aren't.' It's ridiculous.

>>279661711
Isn't it the other way round?

>>279630685
Noses are cool
Ignoring them is how you get shit like hero academia with their godawful snouts

>>279630700
N-nose...

>>279631522
Well it worked, I like fat animated bitches now.

>>279651625
Anime is based on Disney cartoons you stupid chink.

>>279661711
lol no. It's the opposite.It's like asians are a bunch of spergs who lose their shit if anything is slightly different. They're just miserable to be around.

>>279647146
>doesn't know what a figure study is
You're a fucking no draw.

>>279657344
Not my fault that you were too dim to correctly parse the part of my post where I addressed popularity of the most profitable stylization
if you must be provided with more recent examples of more distinct styles you have things like Mob Psycho, Odd Taxi, Panty and Stocking, Dorohedoro, Beastars, and Fukumoto works that see success in the market

But even so your argument falters because there are still plenty of legacy series that maintain popularity to this day like Doraemon, Crayon Shin-chan, and Detective Conan that have styles straying from the current baseline
One Piece has a style directly intertwined with western cartoons and it remains one of the most popular series in anime and manga history whether you like it or not

>>279629919 (OP)
>/a/ - why isn't their more variety in anime? i'm sick of everything looking so samey.
>also /a/ - why aren't these people drawing anime the one and only approved way of drawing it?
pick a lane

>>279630685
What I dislike are jew schnozzles on characters that aren't meant to have them (happens all the time with off-model ""fanart"") or a complete lack of nose (i.e. the artist couldn't be bothered to draw even a dot where the nose is).
This character's nose is prominently drawn yet she is still cute.

>>279657284
I dont like the eyes, I think if you erase the outline around the white part it becomes cuter

>>279662634
We love robust suckable noses actually

>>279662603
>/a/ is one person
Lurk for 10 years before posting.

>>279629919 (OP)
Because beuatification is a virtue ingrained to us Easterners. Somehow the other side embraced the opposite, for what reason?

>>279660189
No I don't draw girls

>>279630700
There's an awful lot of wiggle room to be found between 'The Full Moe' and 'EIN JUDE!?'

>>279663084
Well timbougami is the other german anime artist I know
https://x.com/timbougami

>>279662689
Thats ugly

>>279663282
you're ugly

>>279658941
why does anyone ever get art degrees
who in their right mind goes to art school
and how does everyone manage to get worse after attending

>>279663282
>>279663334
You're both very pretty.

>weeaboos don't have a real appreciation for art, japan, or japanese artists
>they only have an obsession with a single aesthetic ideal
>if anything strays from this it's considered ugly and impure
imagine my shock

>>279663364
>why does anyone ever get art degrees
Because 50-60 years ago a formal education in the arts still meant something, and the advice of guidance counselors sadly hasn't caught up with the last half a century.

>>279663392
Nobody says "weeaboos" anymore because everyone is a weeb.
You'd be insane to be an animation and video game fan and not be a weeb. America's reputation is in the fucking toilet.

>>279658941
this is a fairly disingenuous image with some strings of truth

what has to be considered is how much different the American animation industry is from Japan's
to make a long story short, America's has far far less money running through it than Japan's
this translates to character designs by and large needing to be cut down and smoothed out to meet budget constraints
there are of course exceptions but that's the overarching reason
if you want to have any hope of getting anywhere in the hellhole of the american animation industry you have to be ready to make some sacrifices

>>279663466
I don't think you know what the word actually means

>>279663510
One episode of family guy costs $2 million
one season of anime costs $2 million
It's not because a lack of budget

>>279663536
it's a nonsense word-filter for wapanese

>>279663510
>America's has far far less money running through it than Japan's
lol
lmao even

>>279663546
you're just outlining another factor to support my point
american animation is more expensive for less output
but you still can't simply pull more money out of thin air. there are very very few other productions that can justify that kind of constant money flow that family guy recieves. it's not just another bog standard seasonal show. you're pointing to an industry titan and trying to convince me it's the standard

>>279663691
fucking One Punch Man S1 costs $2 million

>>279663711
>american animation is more expensive for less output
>american animation is more expensive for less output
>american animation is more expensive for less output
please read you fucking monkey
i can't tell you why it's so much less cost efficient but that's the fact of the matter

>>279663691
I honestly can't tell if disingenuous or retarded.

>>279663747
Unions take a decent chunk out, Japan is extremely anti-union
If you wanna be an american animator or a voice actor or a writer, you're in a union

>>279660343
That should be expected since there's more brown people in western countries

>>279661711
This whole thread is nothing but people praising anime art and losing their shit at anything even slightly cartoonish

>>279630851
pyw
>>279630916
pyw

>>279663536
Oh I know what the word means, and I know what people mean when they use the word in different scenarios.
I can tell you're using the word here to refer to anybody who simply likes anything from japan from the tone of your post, you're pushing an "us vs them" divide.

>>279663510
>>279663691
So americans are greedy lazy retards with no fire in their soul for art and only care about min-maxxing life to get rich. Got it.

>>279660139
Frogs and South Americans are the only ones I see that can pull off anime adjacent put still clearly Western art that looks good.

Because I knew from post 3 this thread was made by a retarded /ic/ schizo (I used to frequent there a lot). Here's a dozen of westerners who can perfectly draw anime you would never tell they aren't japanese.
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/5944345
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/54883714
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/50054593
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/7243305
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/62163064
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/6766627
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/38815134
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/18933392
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/4212968
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/35551052
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/11246082
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/4297330

>>279666159
>https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/6766627
this guy's art is undeniably western
but I've jacked off to half the other artists in your post without once thinking about whether they were japanese or not, so I guess you win

>>279666159
>you would never tell they aren't japanese
And that's exactly what's going on. "Western artists" is in practice being used to mean "artists that are either unable or unwilling to draw in an authentic enough anime style to be mistaken for being Japanese". And so "'Western artists' can't draw anime." becomes a tautology.

>>279666672
ah, like survivorship bias

>>279666159
I checked a couple of them and they're not from the west. Some of them are Koreans. You lost.

>>279630700
soul
>>279663179
soulless

>>279631011
>Get rid of fun and you'll hit burn out in 2 weeks
This

As someone who recently decided to learn how to draw and started checking out /ic/ for guides, should I just avoid the board and go elsewhere for that stuff? Seems like it has a pretty bad reputation

>>279666672
People exaggerate and say "No Western artist can successfully draw in the anime style" which is not true, but there is something to be said about how much less likely even a pro weeaboo artist in the West will be able to successfully copy the anime style while it's pretty much standard fare for East Asian artists and somewhat common for Russian artists. Thomas Romain might be one of the only high profile white guys who's got the coloring, layout, lineart, and character design sense down pat. Whereas there's no shortage of non-Japanese Asians who can fully accimlate to the design sensibilities.

>>279667814
yes

>>279667814
Stop wasting time with guides and online advise from nonartists and just draw nigga

>>279631011
>>279667759
It's telling hiw quickly people who hate the fundies will jump to the "if it's not fun you'll burn out" argument on a post that doesn't even say that doing fundies will prohibit you from doing your own art on the side. It's retarded perma-begs who will try to jump into 10 page, 60 page epic manga and get frustrated when they don't know how to draw shit and then complain when no one's liking their art on social media. All of the dynamic sketching, perspective, anatomy courses online have lengths so there's nothing stopping someone from picking up one anatomy course, spending that "semester" also sketching fanart or original character designs on the side with their new skills.

>>279658941
P*xar ruined American animation. There was a brief time in the late 90s/early 2000s when America had really good 2d animation on par with Japan, stuff like Atlantis the Lost Empire/Iron Giant/Titan AE/Treasure Planet but p*xarshit threw that all out and made the soulless garbage we have now.

>>279631799
Well, obviously it's not.
But I remember the time western art was almost universally looked down upon and hated in hentai circles. And generally, yes, it really was inferior to japanese art, even those who didn't try to copy anime style. Even gelbooru had a phase that saw them delete all art made by a westerner, almost unthinkable today, with so many good artists.
Hell, I even stopped hating furry when the art became good.
I short, this phase of western artists being inferior really existed over the 2000s.

>>279667814
The only good thing about /ic/ is collecting the ressources from the many gens if you want them.
Avoid discussion in this place at all costs, it's a bunch of beginners eternally seething about drawing being too hard and becoming good being impossible meanwhile putting down people for peculiar artstyles.
/ic/ still somehow produced good artists like Natthelich but every thread that isn't directly drawing should be avoided.
t. was on /ic/ for 3 years

>>279667814
Guides are basically the only thing /ic/ is useful for. It's complete DOGSHIT for discussion or browsing because it's under constant attack by crabs, nodraws, schizos, AIjeets, and Sharty raiders who just want you to waste your time arguing with them instead of drawing.

>>279667814
I only used to go to /ic/ for their artbook and video course threads. Honestly just go on Youtube and search "how to start learning the fundamentals of art" and most of the top videos will give you better plans than /ic/.

>>279639726
It triggers your Accelerated Graphics Port?

>>279640156
>his rice is special triple-washed
>Washes his rice only 3 times
No wonder it's awful. Even a Gweilo can tell that you're practically spitting in his food if you're not washing your rice at least 9 times.

t. China man

>>279629919 (OP)
I wanna make a manga someday.

>>279668229
/ic/ does a good job at chasing the AIjeets away, unlike every other board

>>279668137
>Atlantis the Lost Empire
I watched Atlantis and Nadia and I loved both. I prefer Atlantis over Stargate.
I don't care if Atlantis was heavily inspired by Nadia. I think that the 9th Pokemon movie took more inspiration from Nadia than Atlantis.
>Titan AE
I have really have fond memories of it.
Someone else also metioned Prince of Egypt.

I actually grew up with western CGI cartoons alongside western 2D cartoons and many anime (Dragonball, Ranma, One Piece, Sailor Moon, 2004 Precure, Detective Conan, Yugioh etc.). I had no problems with stuff like Jimmy Neutron, Donkey Kong, Butt-Ugly Martians and Monste by Mistake but nowadays I dislike 3DCGI.

>>279668390
/a/ sometimes does

>>279668384
This is pretty decent. Rather rough though, though it's got soul because you can see it's painted with one brush.

Keep at it anon.

Hot take: good art always requires sacrifices. My father, who is a local celeb in our country (not in animation or anything) has poor vision and ruined his knees, not even talking about his heart condition. He always told me that half-assing and art never go together. If you are not willing to cripple yourself while drawing, you are not an artist. At least, that's what he still believes in.

>>279668783
As much as people tend to overblow the whole 'muh suffering for art' there is something to say that you do need to make sacrifices for it. Half assing art will definitely be apparent in a piece you do unless you have so much experience even a sketch has soul.

>>279668783
Yup, the top artists who aren't activiely ruining their health either have a spouse taking care of all their chores, meals, and finances, or have sacrificed their health/social life in their 20s/30s and are taking it more easy now that they're older. The rare Type A artist can balance everything but finding someone who's both creative and a Type A pesonality is like finding an albino. Japan does it a little better since not being late and having a good work ethic is drilled into them from pre school but most mangaka will mention they sacrifice at least one part of their life (usually social) to keep up with the deadlines.

>>279668978
Itagaki comes to mind. Although, he has an S tier wife, if i recall correctly.

>>279656543
It still looks bad because of the lack of detail in their overall designs. It's not the eyes or anything, it's the small proportions, plasticky hair and amateurish drawing style. It's just awful all around. It looks like the artist primarily posted their work on Tumblr too.

>>279657284
It looks way better than that terrible show. I really like the shading and color. It's a nice imitation of the typical manga style.

>>279636521
you don't know shit about anything

>>279629919 (OP)
The two styles evolved to fulfill different purposes. The former exists to be easy to emote and animate. The latter is meant to look striking on a manga panel.

>>279664363
Currently making this

>>279656263
>It's like if a whole generation of musicians thought of learning music theory and practicing scales as just optional
this happened and they called it punk. the effects were disastrous.

>>279671120
Oh boohoo. A bunch of upper crust kids couldn't dominate popular music anymore. What a tragedy.

>>279651490
At least she didn't bastardize an actual Jap franchise.