Thread 279666107

this is what you get for watching anime at 2x speed

What is with those awful subtitles

>>279666107 (OP)
Because basically any warrior could solo Frieren or even Serie. Warriors hard counter mages at close range.

>>279666284
This. none of Frieren's magic is worth anything unless she has time to cast it, and a lot of threats (warriors and demons alike) can speedblitz.
Very fast physical attacks also have the advantage of not triggering her mana senses. Frieren can feel a beam of magic coming from behind her a mile away and react nearly instantly, but a simple arrow might as well be invisible to her unless she can see the archer pointing the bow right at her.

>>279666107 (OP)
The show isn't really consistent about why Warriors are necessary.
But its mostly just that they're extremely fast and can speedblitz a mage before the mage can defend themselves.
But only if they're very close.
They also can be a meat shield that lets the mage get breathing room to kill the boss with a strong attack.

frieren uses MMO logic like isekais do

>>279666284
This is why Serie will die. Everything has been set up.
Magic-Nullifying Crystals + Warrior = Serie RIP

>>279666284
>>279666466
The idea is stupid because even D&D lets mages stack defense so they're not squish up close.
There's no reason for a strong mage like Frieren or Serie to not just walk around with spell armor on so that even if a warrior got close, they couldn't attack them without breaking their magic first.

>>279666107 (OP)
Just the dumb trope of "4 niggas in a row" but it doesn't matter when Frieren is Goku tier where she can go ultra instinct when needed but also can get beaten by a goon with a stick.

The Japanese can't decide if Warriors are DPS or Tanks in their isekais.

>>279666769
Maintaining defensive magic all around yourself would deplete your mana in seconds, speedwatcher-kun

>>279666466
Then one warrior is still useless since bandits tend to work in groups

>>279666803
Defensive Magic is inefficient because it has to contend with Soul Track, which was designed specifically to break defensive magic.
Warriors can't cast Soul Track with their axes or swords, so you wouldn't have to build your magic armor around stopping something designed specifically to break it.

>>279666803
They never get tired in the whole fucking show even after fighting.

The only instance when we see something like that is when Denken has a fist fight for that fucking bird.

We never see Frieren or Fern struggling with that, they may as well just fly to Aureole and get this shit done.

>>279667009
why would they get tired?

>>279666804
Literally me every time I see Yubel in her slut dress

>>279666107 (OP)
Warriors should always be cannon fodders in the world of magic.
You really cant justify their existence otherwise

>>279666107 (OP)
Some things like dragons are heavily resistant to or are outright immune to magic.

>>279667009
We see multiple mages in the exams run out of mana and get tired. Ehre and Denken both lose their fights explicitly because they ran out of juice before their opponents did. Which is a result of both Frieren and Fern masking their true mana, meaning that the opponents misjudged their strength and make misplays that they would not have done.

It's also likely that the mana-focused control training that Frieren taught Fern helps build mana reserves faster than most normal mage training does. We are told that increasing your supply of mana is something that takes time and practice. Who is going to be devote more time to their mana than someone who is purposefully controlling it every waking moment of the day? Normal people will take breaks from using their mana. But Frieren, Fern, Flamme, and Serie? All were controlling their mana constantly... and the only person on that list who isn't in the 'best mages of all time' category is Fern. Yet.

>>279666107 (OP)
Her elven nymphomania is kept in check when there are warriors around to stop her from fucking everything in sight.

>>279667291
She can kill dozen of demons but somehow dragons are resistant to magic?
Why is this slop so popular again?

>>279668181
You're an idiot.

>>279666803
Enchanting your robe costs mana exactly once and is then permanent. And we know defence enchanted equipment is a thing because of Übel's backstory

>>279666911
It's the exact opposite of what you just said. The "basic defence magic" hexagons were specifically designed to hard counter zoltraak, which is powerful because it penetrates physical armour.

>>279666107 (OP)
She would get herself in all sorts of trouble without one

>>279666107 (OP)
it's like in muh games

>>279666284
>fighters can now fly with fighter totally not magical SKILLs

>>279666107 (OP)
Because the world of Frieren makes no sense whatsoever. Mages are a dime a dozen and can alter reality at will, but we still need to pretend that we need niggas with axes to get anything done.

>>279670729
>we need niggas with axes to get anything done.
those are just token sidekicks to the actual ubermunch that is the YUUSHAG class/race/whatever.

>>279670697
Easy. Just kick the air

>>279671358
reminds me of how we played Magic the Gathering in the old days
>opponent looses his cool and does X
>A-ha!
>JUST BEFORE you have done that, I cast --

>>279668181
Have you ever played Heroes of Might and Magic III

I hope none of you complainardians are making the mistake of believing that warriors in this series don't use mana unlike mages.
Only people who played AD&D believe that a fighting man is a completely mundane unmagical peon that does nothing more but be bossed by big pants mages like Bigby and Mordenkainen and Abu-Dhalzim and Evard.
Guys like Stark who cleave a new pass or Eisen who jump headdown more than 50 feet to the ground and standing up just fine are not the mundane dudes at the gym.

>>279671658
if fighters were really just gishes/mages all along, it loses all meaning to have mages at all, it's kinda silly move storytelling-wise

>>279666107 (OP)
>>279666162
>Rewached

>>279671905
Not really. Mages are (usually) people who practice spellcraft and attempt to understand magic. Warriors just try really hard to swing their sword / axe and end up releasing mana along with their strikes. This does open up the possibility of a warrior mage though. Very formidable.

>>279670729
They need time to cast you fucking faggot

>>279666107 (OP)
Because melee specialized enemies will fuck a mage up if they are close enough.

>>279666284
that makes no sense, warrior shouldn't be able to speed blitz with their heavy fuck axe
only himmel should speed blitz frieren and basically be able to one shot everyone

>>279671658
>Guys like Stark who cleave a new pass or Eisen who jump headdown more than 50 feet to the ground and standing up just fine.
I think that's really part of the problem with the writing in the first place. A bit too late to remind Japan shonenshit is shit tho.

>>279670729
>>279670770
Frieren admitted that at close range, stark can just rape both her and fern before they can cast any spell.
That's why fern was upset when stark touched her shoulder from the back.
She was upset because she's ready for a rape, instead the axe wielding retard did nothing.

>>279667241
>Warriors should always be cannon fodders in the world of magic.
>You really cant justify their existence otherwise
Warriors in Frieren use "magic", just in a different way. My theory is that they have the potential to have insane amounts of mana but instead it is focused inward for strength, speed and durability. They move so fast over short distances they practically teleport, survive blows that could cleave a normal man in half and create massive shockwaves with their blades that can carve through cliffs and fell groves of trees.
When we think of mages in Frieren, whom do we think of? The Elf who slayed the Demon King, the near-goddess Serie, the 1st class mages whom are the creme de la creme as well as those confident enough to take the exam. The bar for a warrior that can match a mage in this universe is set so high simply because we are constantly dealing with the best mages. Your average scrub mages would be cut down in their dozens if faced with someone like Himmel whom by his own admission is not the strongest warrior.

>>279672409
>The Elf who slayed the Demon King
Anon, the demon king immediately realized that frieren was hiding her mana at first glance.
It took the whole party to barely defeat the demon king.
The bar is not that high for warriors, because the anime barely show a mage vs non-mage.
The manga however showed that frieren and fern almost got killed by an assassin.
Stark even saved fern and frieren from poisonous arrow with his body, then he somehow able block a blitz while unconscious.

>>279672192
>warrior shouldn't be able to speed blitz with their heavy fuck axe
Warriors are not Axemen, Stark and Eizen just choose axes which is probably better spec'd for big monsters like that dragon. Warriors specializing in fighting mages have been seen using daggers, bows and swords.

>>279672707
They literally are tanks, they've been established as vanguards and being tanky as fuck and eisen falling from very high didn't get any damage, it makes literally no sense making them fast as fuck as well.

>>279672791
>They literally are tanks
Yes, they can tank a lot of damage
>it makes literally no sense making them fast as fuck as well.
What's that, Captain America is strong and he runs fast? No fair!!! If they are strong enough to cleave a Zoltrak proof dragons head in half, why the fuck would you imagine them as having jelly legs?

>>279666107 (OP)
she wants to be with her old friend, she's just too autistic to admit it

>>279666758
It would be funny if nothing happens to her because she has precautions for that.

>>279672409
>enemy standing like a stick without any movement
>"explosive jump aftershock" so that author doesn't have to draw the dude move
>Ha-Hayai!
>enemy vanishes instantly so that author doesn't have to draw him dodging

Let's also not ignore the genius move of making the hero party paralysed - they don't have to move!

I wonder how magical warriors such as Linnie, Laufen and Uber compared to pure warriors in the Frieren universe. You'd think that the addition of spells and their superior mana pools would provide at least some advantage.

>>279666107 (OP)

Mages are not front liners matte. A powerful warrior at the right distance means instant death before she can cast.

>>279673493
>enemy vanishes instantly
I mean the demon is a teleporter.

>>279666803
Not Frieren though. She could sustain a barrier for a long time because her mana pool mogs anything not a demon sage or elf like Serie.

>>279666284
https://youtu.be/qrs7LnmdNy8?si=kuJ1puWkqETpnXWn

I wish that was the case a long, long time ago.

>>279666769
You think of DND while it's more pathfinder 2E.
Casters wouldn't be stupid OP in DND if the DM actually enforce material cost on spells, so mages have shit magic items compared to martials.

>>279673582
>I wonder how magical warriors such as Linnie, Laufen and Uber compared to pure warriors in the Frieren universe.
Linnie is all technique and no power. I imagine she'll destroy the average idiot bandit or part time soldier but be fucked against anyone on Stark's level, any top class warriors would absolutely murder her.
Ubel is a newly minted first class mage and uses magic fairly uniquely so she is pretty fucking broken. I imagine most warriors would be fucked at distance due to her binding spell (if there is not a counter, equipment, priest enchantment, willpower, ect) and caught off guard by her Cut HM at medium range. Top level warrior, inside 20 feet they'll get her before she can cast it if they don't hesitate and with awareness of her moves they could probably defeat her a medium range through speed and blocking, a shield would help. I think most skilled warriors would get fucked over by her unpredictability but if the were briefed before hand it is a different story.
Laufen I feel would be mid tier, she's got the speed to match a warriors lunge and solid attack / range with her energy staff but no tank so it would come down to how well she can utilize her arsenal of magic (Zoltraak, Shield) to tip the scales. Funny enough her big weakness is the same as a warriors in that she's gotta end it fast so her mana and thus her speed doesn't putter out.
Sense, Genau and Falsch are probably the most broken duel spec mages but they are so high level that 99.99% of mages could never hope to approach them in close quarters capability.

Being the most powerful doesn't mean being invincible

>>279666769
>The idea is stupid because even D&D lets mages stack defense so they're not squish up close.
RPG rules in East and West diverge. In the West the mages start out weak and end up demigods that warriors can't keep up. In the East the warriors are tuned to match mages by giving them superspeed and actual ability to tank damage.

>>279666107 (OP)
She lazy and not getting one shit by a warrior in close quarters takes effort.

>>279674175
>Being the most powerful doesn't mean being

>>279674175
She is though. Sure they say that she's been outclassed before but we've never seen that.

>>279671905
>if fighters were really just gishes/mages all along, it loses all meaning to have mages at all, it's kinda silly move storytelling-wise
Just think of it like chi or Guts or any alternative resource system that a warrior can have. If you can have a fantastical mage, you can have a fantastical warrior. Warriors are not just manaless mages.

Come on, the West isn't devoid of mythological warriors. Hercules and Samson are two obvious ones. They sort of cheat by using divine power but the idea is the same.

>>279666107 (OP)
to be bodyguards
The warrior perceives the threat, giving a mage the time to activate their OP defenses and blast it.

>>279674724
Their feats are usually explainable by physical strength and are seldom totally "yeah, no" tier. It also all comes down to how belieavable and internally consistent you can make it.
The less reitsus and flogistons the better

>>279671658
You have straight-up non-mages saying they use visualization.
Warriors are Ubels who visualize themselves jumping 50 feets.

>>279674969
>Their feats are usually explainable by physical strength and are seldom totally "yeah, no" tier.
The point is if you have palm sized birds that move at supersonic speeds and superstrength, it makes sense that human warriors would not be restricted by real world physics. Frieren made sure that it is consistent in portraying what you can do in the world. If birds can go supersonic, so can humans.

>>279666769
this aint d&d tho

>>279666758
If that happens I'm dropping the series. It already has way too many annoying as fuck aspects and that would be the final straw.

>>279673636
Also Serie's mana at suppressed state is equal to Frieren's when fully unleashed. Her losing would feel like a forced asspull.

>>279666107 (OP)
Because mages are glass cannons.

>>279666802
To be fair they can't in their MMOs either

>>279675278
>Frieren made sure that it is consistent in portraying what you can do in the world.
Wouldn't call dwarves running on water that. That just felt over the top. Or better example - I hate that when Eisen just has spear head shatter on him when impacting him. That's way too much. The problem is it was drawn as even his stupid clothes were absolutely rigid body with no deformation possible. It's the handling of the details like this - showing how his muscles or something actually stop the blow could be done, but you'd have to put in a bit more effort. Well, the whole character is drawn like a caricature too, which doesn't help but that's different issue.
You can have super powers in your story, but you have to make it believable.

>>279675515
>Frieren survives blows that should chop a person in half (from Lernen), doesn't flinch and just goes home while casually bleeding without even first aid being administered

>>279675791
>Wouldn't call dwarves running on water that.
As long as you go supersonic it would be easy.
>I hate that when Eisen just has spear head shatter on him when impacting him.
Accurate portrayal of having 8000 HP.

The point here is that animals, not even monster, just regular animals, have superpowers. That means the laws of physics are just different. You just think too highly of magic and don't respect martial traditions that could be exaggerated in a fantasy world.

>>279666198
Anime subs are often made by rather incompetent fans, and the sub-par quality is commonly endorsed by the elitistic anime community. This is also the same reason why Japanese honorifics are usually left untranslated.

>>279675899
>Accurate portrayal of having 8000 HP.
If you want to downplay it, at least use the correct RPG analogy.
and yeah, rpgisms, the one way to make a great story

>>279666284
>knives counter guns at close range
>therefore every squad of soldiers needs a guy with a knife to protect them

>>279671510
Orb of Vulnerabilty fag

>>279675821
>Frieren survives blows that should chop a person in half (from Lernen)
It nicked her shoulder, also it was probably done that way on purpose. In the battle against her perfect duplicate even though it was a 2 on 1 fight the clone had no openings in her defense so Frieren put herself in a position that would be too tempting for the clone to pass up resulting in a light shoulder wound in exchange for giving Fern an opening. Know who had two bottled golems in that room? Lernen. Lernen approaches, declares his intent to kill her then summons his staff and fires, an action which takes about 5 seconds which for Frieren in terms of being able to respond might as well be an engraved invitation sent by mail a day in advance. He fires several shots that home in on Frieren, break her defenses and lightly wounded her in the exact same spot the clone did, not enough of an injury to impede her ability. He then formally requests a duel.
So many people mistake this as some sort of serious attempt at a sneak attack, that he tried to kill right out out of the gate and then requested a duel when it failed, no. What Lernen actually did was drop his business card, "what your clone managed after 10min of battle, I did in 10sec". Frieren is the ancient mage of the heroes party, she isn't going to take a request for a formal duel seriously from just any old scrub, Lernen was just showing her what he was about in way that was crystal fucking clear. Frieren is fairly peaceful but I wonder if she ever feels the slightest regret at talking him down because that would have been one hell of fight.

>>279676008
Your belief that d&d of the west is superior is on you, your rules don't work here and get used to a different universe.

>>279676375
>knife lets you sprint at 300km/h
>knife lets you take severe wounds and keep going
>knife impact hits as hard as an artillery shell
I feel like you are underselling what warriors in Frieren can do with your irl soldier gun v knife scenario.

>>279676824
Or Frieren let him injure her on purpose to assuage his ego.

>>279677398
I... I let you wound me to... to trick you.

>>279676824
>Lernen apologism

>>279677838
Apologize for what exactly? He wouldn't request a duel if he was planning to kill her, he would just keep on attacking.

>>279671409
that just sounds like playing yugioh (the better game)

>>279666284
You not see the clone? If Frieren got serious, she would crush any opponent. She is probably only using barely half her power. And remember SJW is also a mage type. Frieren probably is even more powerful in melee. If she wants to be.

>>279672409
>Warriors in Frieren use "magic", just in a different way.
Anon the only difference between mages and warriors in the world of frieren is that mages has alot of spells to use besides just buff and debuff
meanwhile the warrior has only buff and dash attacks.

>>279678157
>You can't beat me, I've mastered over 50 spells
>(gets immediately stabbed)
Nice going Poindexter.

>>279670285
I don't see the contradiction between us.
Defense magic hard-counters Soul Track, but in doing so it becomes extremely expensive to cast for very long.
But if the enemy literally can't cast Soul Track, then you can use a much more efficient type of defensive magic instead, because the thing that made you overbuild your shields is a non-factor.

>>279671658
>>279675224
If that was true, the magic suppression crystal would have crippled Stark.

>>279666107 (OP)
Because that's how it works in Dragon Quest and Frieren is just Dragon Quest

>>279672706
Stark got almost killed by that assassin if not for pity, so it didn't mean much.
That fight is total dogshit in execution and was purely forced 'hype'.

>>279672791
>it makes literally no sense making them fast as fuck as well.
why wouldn't someone who's athletic be fast?

>>279667241
D&Demoralization is not the rest of fantasy.

>>279679085
Then magic \= warriors, but law of visualization is a constant for both.

>>279679085
>If that was true, the magic suppression crystal would have crippled Stark.
Yep, that crystal is proof that warriors are not just fist mages. However, the Stille birds in the mage exam also provide clues. The Stille are NOT emitting mana, so the mages can't detect them from a distance. But the birds clearly had access to the equivalent of warrior skill tree in rapid acceleration and massive burst strength. Further their fear of mana makes it unlikely that they use magic at all as that would mean they would frighten each other.

>>279666198
it's a streaming website
they have softsubs now but it has some shitty black background

>>279666107 (OP)
Because D&D did it. Don't you play D&D? Why do elves live so long? We'll, because that's how it is in D&D. Why is the world full of dungeons and monsters? To be more like a D&D campaign, OBVIOUSLY. Why are dudes with swords stronger than dudes with projectiles? It's obvious if you played D&D before, stupid. How does the magic system work? Like D&D, DUH. Why haven't you played D&D???

I get that world-building is not the point of Frieren, but man, it's just so damn bland. They could have attempted to make something original. The Demon King they won't stop talking about is just named "Demon King." It feels like an AI generated world.

>>279681278
The main interest point of this show was how Freiren's experience as an elf differs from humans. and that was thrown out of the window quickly.

>>279681550
>If a character doesn't start all their sentences with "Because I'm an elf..." I assume her being an elf has no influence on her words or deeds