Thread 279792297

And then Shirou leaves Rin behind and goes to the desert, doubling down even harder than Archer did.
What was the message of UBW?

You don't know that.

>>279792297 (OP)
Archer wasn't wrong.

>>279792297 (OP)
>What was the message of UBW?
“Play HF”.

>>279792507
fuck off

So I can't get a straight answer. Is Last episode animated or not?

>>279792550
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNkNjLiaosY
https://imgur.com/a/chapter-1-1-1-2-rc4JrBq

>>279792297 (OP)
The ultimate message of FSN, as finally conveyed in the third and final route, is that heroism is dumb and men should simp for damaged goods. This is because Nasu is a woman.

>>279792297 (OP)
>What was the message of UBW?
Never give up your dreams for a woman.

>>279792297 (OP)
Archer wasn't entirely wrong, but his methods were. The point is that sometimes failure is a necessary step. We don't know what became of UBW, we can assume he did things in a way that lead to a better outcome compared to Archer.

I will now be pretentious and quote Samuel Beckett - "Ever tried, ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better."

>>279792297 (OP)
UBW was a bad ending. You can't convince me it's not. It makes it seem like it's good. Shirou doesn't find his own ideals, still hanging on to the same childhood dream that isn't his. I don't even think he learns the truth about Kiritsugu in this route. And everything about the ending is leading back to the same tragedy Archer went through. It makes everything he went through pointless.

>>279793234
Shirou is saved by going to London

>>279792297 (OP)
To this day I still don't understand how the fuck people killed him over saving them?
Like, did Shirou stop a terrorist from bombing a refugee camp, then when said terrorist got arrested and trialed for homicide he went in to save him too?
Because if so then he's completely retarded and deserves to die whiteknighting.

>>279793234
You only see it as a bad ending because you think of settling down with a girl to be the ONLY ending a man can have.
>Shirou doesn't find his own ideals, still hanging on to the same childhood dream that isn't his
you fundamentally misunderstood all of UBW.

>>279793973
>you fundamentally misunderstood all of UBW.

Show me how I am wrong.

Do you think in 2199 or further we'll still be discussing Fate like we don't know, until we can clone Nasu like a experimental monkey and find out what he meant in his genius brain?

>>279793992
You aren't wrong, he doesn't have his own ideal and it's borrowed from Kiritsugu's. That was addressed in the show. Either you're a speedreader/watcher or you didn't get it.

>>279794052
I can't imagine how retarded anyone who thinks Nasu is a genius must be. Can you breathe without help?

>>279794272
>>I can't imagine how retarded anyone who thinks Nasu is a genius must be
Did you read Fate?

>>279794286
Yeah, it's trash.

>>279794319
You didn't like a single thing that you read over 60 hours of text to continue?

>>279793973
So you rather be fighting in the middle east and die?
Be an eternal janny that couldn't save people?
There's a reason Archer only likes HF and Miyuverse Shirou.

>>279794765
>So you rather be fighting in the middle east and die?
No, I'm not Emiya Shirou and neither are you. You don't get to decide what makes a fictional person happy.

>>279792297 (OP)
>he doesnt know
fate and ubw are fake canon routes made for introduction and to deceive the readers.

Heaven's Feel is the canonical story/ending of FSN.

>>279792297 (OP)
>leaves Rin behind
I don't remember this, remind me on the exact technicalities.

>>279792576
cute...

>>279792657
Pretentiousness is merely the appearance of depth without its substance. You hit the substance imo.

Why didn't Shiro destroy Tel Aviv with UBW

>>279793234
It's a mindset difference. Knowing what he will go through and still accepting it and promising to maintain faith, he may win the ideological battle that Archer lost. It's still not guaranteed to be a victory though.

>>279793516
I don't know if this is fanfiction or not because source: my vague memories, but didn't the goverment of whatever country he was in blame the war on him? So he just tanked it cause "yeah sure if the war ends with my death I'm all for it"

>>279795599
He still dies so in the end he couldn't save everyone.

>>279792297 (OP)
>And then Shirou leaves Rin behind
That was never mentioned to be the case.

>>279792297 (OP)
The message is that you need to read the VN instead of watching adaptations.

>>279792297 (OP)
It's a redundant route for Rinfags.

>>279796651
As far as I am away, the (greater) grail gets "dismantled" in some way in every route anyway.

>>279797377
What does the poem mean

>>279792297 (OP)
Why lie?

>>279797457
*aware

>>279793516
F/E Archer kinda explains it a bit in his dialogues: nothing scares the everloving shit out of people in positions of power than someone that impartially helps anyone without expecting anything in return. Emiya was so incorruptible and uncontrollable in his quest for saving others that he was quickly becoming a potential threat to politicians and the like, so they ended up blaming him for something, turning the public against him and executing him before he could turn against them. F/E Archer is not Stay Night Archer, but he's more or less got the same fundamentals in this regard.

>>279792297 (OP)
>>279797377

>>279793992
>"I'm telling you that's crazy!
>Look, if you were saved, take care of yourself! >I'm sorry for the people who got killed, but it's only by chance that you were saved!

>Then you should take full advantage of your good fortune. You suffered such a hell, so it'll be a waste if you don't have fun!"

>Tohsaka is seriously angry.
>"————"
>Yeah, that makes me happy.
>I finally realize now, because Tohsaka is that kind of person.

>The questions I've been wondering about all this time.
>I wanted to be a superhero, and I always tried to help others.
>I knew there was something wrong with the method, but I did not understand what.

>But it's so clear now.
>It's because of this person that is seriously angry for my sake.

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20204/

>>279792297 (OP)
>>279797559
>>279797600
>So, what will you do, Shirou?"
>She asks me gently, with eyes that see through me.

>"———"
>My face turns red.
>Her words and expression blow away my humility and my dislike of the Magic Association.
>…This is what I mean by Tohsaka holding my weakness.
>I can't help it if I fell in love with her.

>She keeps smiling mischievously.
>She knows what my answer is, but she's mercilessly attacking me.

>"Uh… I, um…"
>To be honest, London is too far away, but I can't imagine myself being taught by anyone other than Tohsaka.
>And I never even thought about parting with her.
>Most of all, I want to be with Tohsaka.

>"Be clear, this is important.
>Will you still come with me, even if it's as my assistant?"
>She looks up into my eyes.
>She looks so attractive that I feel like my heart will pop out of my mouth.

>"S-Shut up, you idiot…! You idiot, idiot, idiot! I-I-If it's so important, tell me about it in a more appropriate place! I can't answer you when it's so sudden…!!!"

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20234/

>innocent, pure and deeply empathetic boy in a big bad world

What was Shirou realistically supposed to do?

>>279792297 (OP)
>And then Shirou leaves Rin behind and goes to the desert, doubling down even harder than Archer did.
I don't remember this, I only remember him, Rin and Saber going to London to pick up Luvia together.

>>279797465
The poem means that no matter far Shirou may go or how lost he may seem, he'll always have a home with Rin to return to.

How exactly would Shiro make peace in the middle east?

>>279795659
Shirou dies young in every route according to Nasu so that's not saying much

Also Shirou know he cannot save everyone but he'll try regardless

>>279797621
I don't think it is ever implied that he did "double down even harder than Archer", but it does show him alone in the desert seemingly following Archer's steps in the anime, not in the VN

>>279792297 (OP)
The VN leaves open to interpretation whether or not Shirou follows Archer's footsteps. It even says that he has Rin to keep him from going full retard.

The anime is shit and besides ruining Rin's personality felt the need to add an epilogue that shows Shirou going full retard.

HF > UBW btw.

>>279798218
>HF > UBW btw.

UBW unveils the selfish in the selfless Shirou, and the selfless in the selfish Rin. Yin and Yang. They complete each other. The central theme of FSN is that love can heal and save anyone, and no route explores this better than UBW.

HF on the other hand features a romance that repeats some of the beats of UBW, but executed in an inferior fashion. The point is that the events of the route force Shirou to contemplate the way that he enjoyed Sakura's presence due to her providing the minimal amount of human interaction he needed for him to maintain the illusion that he *doesn't* need it, that he doesn't want to be happy, and that becoming an inhuman machine is something he truly desires. But in recapitulating and consequently further elaborating on this theme, the narrative just provides an inferior iteration of the dynamic already explored with Rin, because Shirou's interactions with Rin make him realize how uncomfortable he is at finding Rin so much fun to be around *immediately*. Rin and Shirou have excellent chemistry, and their interactions are a joy to observe, while Sakura and Shirou have no real dynamic whatsoever -- it's a relationship defined by plot contrivances and the circumstances the characters find themselves in. In UBW, Rin and Shirou proactively attempt to help the other -- plot contrivances may provide fertile soil for their interactions, but fundamentally the essence of the narrative is found in their intrinsic clash of personalities, the narrative and its contrivances merely accentuating and catalyzing the interactions; in HF, the romance is driven entirely by the plot. Shirou's conundrum in HF is not prompted by an inner conflict spilling over into a conflict with Rin (and Archer), but by Zouken's posing threat to Sakura.

>>279792297 (OP)
There's nothing wrong with fighting muzdogs.

>>279798272
Trvth nvke

>>279797377
God, this shit made me feel things

>>279797457
>>279797477
Ten years after the Grail war, Waver Velvet and Rin go to Fuyuki and dismantle the entire Grail system.
This was added in a supplementary material book from 2010 because I guess Nasu finally realized only then that two routes leave the Grail in place, lol.

>>279797931
Glass the entire place.
To save everyone, sometimes you have to kill everyone.

>>279798078
Citation needed.

>>279798272
>Shirou's conundrum in HF is not prompted by an inner conflict spilling over into a conflict with Rin (and Archer), but by Zouken's posing threat to Sakura.
Yes, it's about how he finds out first-hand how his ideal will cause issues rather than simply being told about it. It goes from theory to practice, as is the natural next step after UBW.

>>279798556
oh fuck off, anon

>>279797377
>>279797559
These read like dramatic irony before a tragic ending, like when someone in a war movie says they'll get married once they get home.

>>279792297 (OP)
Fate is just amwf propaganda.
>FSN has female king Arthur give her virginity to a Japanese high school boy
>Medea instantly forgets her marriage to the Greek hero Jason to get bred by a Japanese kungfu wobbly fist master
>Medusa gets wet thinking about Japanese dick
>Tohsaka ancestor implied to have married and impregnated an Edelfelt Sister from the 3rd Grail War
>Kotomine's white wife literally dies trying to fix him
>FZ has a prestigious German family hire a Japanese mage to impregnate their crown jewel, he also happens to have a devout assistant who happily serves as his stress relief
>FApoc has the queen of ancient kingdom fall in love with a literallywho Japanese
>FE has a Roman empress fall in love with a Japanese boy
>FGO goes hard with this, Japanese teenager/college student/shota is sought after by female knights, goddesses, witches, queens/empresses, etc.

>>279792297 (OP)
>What was the message of UBW?
Basically, it's not the destination, it's the journey.
Even if Shirou meets the same end as Redman, it would still be worth doing it because in the end, he will end up saving a lot of people in the process. At least, that's how I've always interpreted ubw.

>>279798204
Except scenes like >>279797559 already establish that Rin will follow Shirou all along on his adventures for a time and intermitently, and that the two of them will eventually settle down and have their happily ever after. Coming to the conclusion that Shirou leaves Rin because of a vague shot of him in the desert is retarded.

>>279798701
Anon, if you think reality always pans out like vague promises made at the kitchen table, I have a bridge to sell you. The shot of him in the desert is what ends up happening after it regardless of their hopes.

>>279798618
Lmao this is pure cope. One is a third person perspective poem about Shirou's future from the narrator given at the end of the story, following a scene >>279797609 which affirms that Shirou cares more about his ideal that Rin. The other is a scene that concludes the epilogue narrative, where Shirou doesn't know what to do because he wants to be with Rin, but he also doesn't feel at place in Clock Tower, so he feels he is betraying Rin, with the conflict's being resolved when Rin affirms her love and support for him; paralleling the way in which Shirou affirms his love for Rin as being greater than his commitment to the ideal, so too Rin acknowledges that Shirou matters to her more than magecraft.

Slurp some more worms, will ya Sakuratranny?

>>279798750
The shot of him in the desert is what happens before their ultimate happily ever after. Cope harder.

>getting long-housed by Rin because Redman forgot how beautiful he found his dream
A fate worse than early death.

>>279798804
>ultimate happily ever after
You... don't recognize that phrases like these are literally made to cope? It's like when people need to imagine a magical happy country in the sky to motivate themselves to be decent human beings (and often fail at it regardless).

>>279798849
>anti-Rinfags are mentally ill subhuman atheists
Lmao

>>279798774
Poems are not prose. They're just flowery decoration, and about as flimsy as proof gets.
>following a scene >>279797609 which affirms that Shirou cares more about his ideal that Rin.
Exactly.

>>279798842
Rin supports Shirou in his pursuit of the ideal and wants him to succeed in it because she finds it beautiful. The entire point of UBW is that Shirou succeeds precisely because of Rin's love and support.

>>279798917
The poem is the conclusion to UBW further elucidating the themes explored in the narrative. Cope harder.

>The girl looks up at the voice.
>Her face looks cute, trying to hold back the tears.
>Rather than expressing the attachment he feels, he looks at the boy lying in the distance.
>"Please take care of me. I think you know, but I am unreliable.
>——Please support me."
>The knight says so as if it's somebody else's business.

>Those are words of parting.
>…The future might change.
>If a girl like her stays with Emiya Shirou, the hero Emiya should not be born.
>His words contain such hope.

>"——————Ar… cher…"
>…But even if it ends up that way, the already existing knight will forever be a guardian.
>The boy and the man are two different existences.
>They only have the same starting point, and he is an ideal that the boy dreamed of.

>"——————!"
>…There is no salvation available for this knight.
>There is nothing to give to him, as he has already died and become a phenomenon.
>She nods in spite of that.
>She cannot give him anything, so she will give him her best smile.
>He asked her to take care of him.
>She smiles so that she can answer the trust he put in her.

>"Yeah, I know. I'll do my best. I'll do my best so that he won't get twisted like you. I'll do my best so that he will be able to like himself…!
>So you should also———"

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20233/

>>279798917
>Exactly.
Gloating over a typo is typical mental illness from Random Alias aka 108;chances 108;changes, who totally didn't change his YT name so it would hit 4chan filters. All because he can't defend how shit Sakura's romance is. Sad.

>>279798960
Notice how your claims are all based on hopes, vows and poems, while >>279792297 (OP) is material reality.

>>279799032
The material reality of Shirou's being in a desert. Can you please tell how that shows Shirou and Rin aren't in a relationship and Shirou is kept happy by the thought of reuniting with Rin?

>>279799066
I'm sure he was thinking he'd go back to Rin as soon as he had saved people from the nuclear reactor.

>>279798272
>The central theme of FSN is that love can heal and save anyone, and no route explores this better than UBW.
HF is right there and even grounds it out more by showing that despite Kiritsugu's methodology he was right in that there's only so many people one person can save without losing their own humanity in the process. Shirou finally understood what his surrogate father tried to tell him and became the force that pulled Sakura back into her humanity.

Honestly, my issue with Shirou doing what he thinks is that it's just retarded. Imagine going to Iraq in 2003 and somehow thinking you can help.

>>279792297 (OP)
He wasn't wrong.

>>279792297 (OP)
Such corny ass bullshit. Just the idea of an autistic japanese teen traveling to the middle east to stop muzzies from blowing each other up is comical. Fate is truly dogshit.

>>279799135
Who would've guessed the Reddit atheist has no argumentation and must resort to effeminate homosexual Jewish snark in lieu of a proper confutation?

Let me explain for it you properly: there are no such things as "brute facts". All claims are necessarily understood within broader parsimonious systems which properly contextualize and elucidate any assertion or truth claim, which is to say that nothing can be interpreted or investigated isolated from a system. The scientific method relies on the creation of holistic theories which reconcile many, many data points within a parsimonious internally coherent framework. Immaterial truths like logical axioms precede material observation, since any form of empiricism requires a truth criterion, namely a correspondance theory of truth, such that logical claim X is identical to or non-contradictory with empirical observation Y. All that is to say that empiricism *presupposes* the law of non-contradiction and the law of identity, immaterial realities which cannot be observed empirically — they are the foundation for empiricism. They are self-sufficiently true. Thus, any and all experimentation requires prior theorization and prior formulation of hypotheses to test, all understood by way of their contextual situation within the broader parsimonious framework. This is why atheism is gay and retarded — its own golden calf of science cannot exist without immaterial realities. God is the foundation of logic and the immaterial is the foundation of the material.

>>279799135
>>279799463
Now, let us consider the "material reality" of Shirou's being in a desert. What does it mean? On the face of it is just a ginger guy in a desert. It only gains meaning in a certain *context*, that is the narrative context of Shirou's character arc in UBW. There is no brute fact to be asserted here. You are interpreting the data point through a prior presupposed prism, a heuristic you utilize to clarify the observation.

In your case your logic is essentially that because Shirou is alone, he and Rin are not in a relationship. Whence this conclusion from? You are relying on the assumption of contextual narrative cues; that is to say, you are assuming that the author is relying on Chekhov's gun to neatly arrange all aspects of a narrative for the sake of a singular teleological purpose which he is trying to unveil. The point of the shot of Shirou in a desert is to show that Shirou isn't with Rin anymore. There is no brute material reality — there is a datum that is being interpreted through a broader hermeneutical lens.

But is this assumption warranted? What happens if we utilize your own presuppositions consistently? Then the final scenes between Shirou and Rin in both VN and anime have a purpose, a narrative reason for being there. Now the purpose that they serve in the context of Shirou's character arc is to show that Shirou loves Rin more than the ideal and that he won't become like Archer because of Rin's love; Rin's love and concern for Shirou has helped him regain his self-worth.

>>279799463
>>279799477
>ChatGPT

>>279799135
>>279799463
>>279799477
When the author tells us in his narration that Archer is certain that Rin will save Shirou, and that Shirou loves Rin more than being a superhero, and that he only became a superhero because it made him happy but being with Rin makes him happier, and Rin vows to save Shirou, and a poem appears to tell us that Shirou has a happily ever after with Rin — that is because the author is telling RIN SAVES SHIROU. And since Rin tells us that she and Shirou will sometimes be apart for some periods of time but always find their way back together, the scene in the desert is intepreted through this prior narrative context.

On top of that, we also have information outside of the narrative, like interviews from Nasu saying Rin prevents Shirou from becoming Archer, and Nasu saying that Ufotable didn't adapt his scene properly, and the truth becomes apparent.

You can go burn in hell now.

>>279799486
>When the author tells us in his narration
There is nothing less trustworthy than Nasu narration.

>>279799485
Go ahead, put whatever prompts you want into ChatGPT to get the same thing I wrote. Let's see you prove it.

>>279799427
You wouldn't get it.

>>279799463
Christcuckery moralism is Reddit. You should go back there.

>>279793234
>Shirou doesn't find his own ideals
It's almost as if this is a story about copies surpassing originals or something. It never needed to be his, the path he takes to it needs to be. It's perspective he needs to acquire. Even if this UBW Shirou ends up as a heroic spirit, he won't end up as jaded because he will have a better understanding of himself and this ideal that he (now) truly chose to understand and follow. The last words of Archer at the end where he says "I wasn't wrong." is not him doubling down on his hatred for his situation, nor is it self-delusion. It's a reaffirmation of his heroic ideal and his beliefs.
"I wasn't wrong... for pursuing this dream. "
It's not as clear-cut and satisfyingly definitive a conclusion as giving up on your ideal to protect, to save the person you love is (HF). It's mellow, more introspective. It's a "middle-road" that isn't as satisfying as "the right track", but is in no way less right or inferior, even if it feels like it.

>>279797465
You're gonna carry that weight.

>>279799187
Killing shit skins will never not help.

>>279799463
>berates him for using jewish tricks to avoid explaining
>uses jewish tricks to explain

>>279799901
This so funny, amirite goys? It's because I said the complete opposite of what is true hehehe. Very cute, but a failed deflection from the fact that you have failed to address any of the argumentation, which has sedulously and exhaustively controverted your bullshit. Grasp after the cope now, Random Alias, you filthy kike.

Now, complaining about moralism is a completely fruitless endeavour, as what one is doing is moralizing about the moralizing of others, merely asserting one's own moral system against another under the guise of moral nihilism, which is really but hedonism availing itself of individualistic indifferentism to justify its vacuous principles. But what is more egregious is your pathetic platitudes about "BEING A DECENT HUMAN BEAN" and your complaining about how people should be nice to rape victims because you can't stop seething about people's being repulsed by your filthy fucking slut of a waifu. Sorry not sorry, but morality can't exist without grounding in the supernatural and immaterial. There's nothing wrong about rape or making fun of it in your paradigm.

>>279800258
Jewish tricks is when you use logic. The more logic you use, the more Jewish it is.

>>279793234
>Shirou doesn't find his own ideals, still hanging on to the same childhood dream that isn't his.
>Ideals that aren't his

That was a silly thing for Archer to get hung up on. Ideals aren't instrinsic.

>>279800418
You are schizophrenic.

Currently reading HF, 95% of the way through.
It's probably my favorite route in terms of events but man, Sakura weighs it down a LOT. I was ready to see her turn dark as early as the Medusa reveal but you just get endlessly blueballed until the tail-end of the story. I think it would've been far cooler if the filler murders were skipped and Dark Sakura manifested during day 11 or 12.
UBW had a similar sort of blueballing with Archer's identity but at least that route was shonen-ey enough to keep you interested via the fights and smaller twists. You get the early Servant deaths and the horror stuff in the first week or so for HF but it starts slowing to a crawl after Sakura gets poisoned.
I'm also convinced she's Nasu's self-insert cause she's somehow the most boring female character in the story. I like her but the syphilis voice and the waifubait-tier affection she has from Shirou is a massive turn-off. They used her well for the horror bits but making her the anchor of HF instantly brings the story down a rank for me. Would've preferred Ilya being Shirou's main motivation for his attitude changing, but she got her moments to shine in the route too, so it's not a big loss.
>inb4 Rinfag
I didn't care for her much either but UBW was the Archer route and therefore didn't suffer from waifuisms. If it weren't for it needing to be the introductory/exposition route, Fate would've been my favorite version of the FSN story. Shirou minimized the casualties caused by other Masters and also prevented Angry Mango - I think that's more than enough to make him a hero

>>279801120
I accept your concession. This has truly been a more resounding victory than the Gulf War 1990-91.

>>279792297 (OP)
white pussy > jap pussy

>>279801201
>I didn't care for her much either but UBW was the Archer route and therefore didn't suffer from waifuisms.
The entire route is about Shirou's being healed through Rin's love, retard.

>>279799521
Can you please carefully explain what the fuck does the style of prose and its lofty hyperbolic qualities in Nasu have to do with character development and thematic exploration?

>>279801201
>the syphilis voice
Yeah, Noriko's early voice acting for Sakura really wasn't good at all. She was instructed to do a moe voice early on when she was selected for the 06 anime, which ended up sounding shrill whenever she raised her voice in Realta Nua's HF, especially since she hadn't really grasped the character properly yet at the time. She didn't really settle into a good voice for her (outside of Dark Sakura, who always let her use a more natural tone) until around Zero or so, where she shifted from forcing a high-pitched moe voice to a more natural Fujino-esque voice. For what it's worth, the movies do a lot to get rid of the bloat in the middle and keep the action more consistent.

>>279794765
I mean miyuverse shirou also had his world go to hell. Sucks for literally eveyone else in that world but he saved his one person so it's okay

>>279794765
>There's a reason Archer only likes HF and Miyuverse Shirou.
Archer admitted UBW Shirou was right and said he'd succeed. Are Sakurakikes just incapable of not compulsively lying?

Rin lost (in all timelines)
Artoria and Sakura won (in different timelines)

Looks like Sakurakikes have entered the bargaining stage.

>>279801328
>why is the narration of a writer infamous for abusing it to write hyperbole and falsehoods not credible evidence

>>279795578
The heroic spirit Netanyanhu stopped him

>>279801539
Flowery language is not a description of character motivations, themes and development. You might as well say that Fate/stay night is actually a Sopranos fan fiction about the imprisoned Ercole DiMeo and his escapades in federal detention, but Nasu's style is so insane and crazy that we think it's an urban fantasy about a Japanese teenager named Shirou.

>>279801588
>Netanyahu
>heroic
Yeah right

>>279797931
Killing all Americans.

>>279799521
The entire thing is supposed to be from Shirou's perspective. He can't fully follow an attack because it's too fast so he describes it as "faster than light", he is amazed by the strength of the attack and claims that it's enough to level entire cities.

During the prologue, when the entire thing was from Rin's perspective, the narration wasn't so hyperbolic.

>>279802763
Hyperbolic narration is a constant in Nasu works, no matter the context. He doesn't see it as an objective way to convey information, but just says whatever sets the intended tone for the moment only to contradict it later on.

>>279798633
What about Prisma Illya?

>>279802842
>doesn't respond to >>279801667
Kek

>>279802842
Lmao it's an another instance of autistic retard is incapable of understanding evocative imagery non-literally; many such cases

>>279803127
It's obviously not literal, but the fact that Nasu uses narration as a space for hyperbole disqualifies the narration from being objective proof of anything.

>>279802842
>The Ryuudou temple is different than she remembers.
>I feel a feeling of dread as I approach it. I believe that I may not come out of it alive once I enter.
>of course this is only a subjective feeling. I may come out of it alive since my feelings are not necessarily aligned with the reality that surrounds me
>in fact, I could be wrong about her memories of the Temple since I do not posses the ability to read minds. It is entirely possible that nothing is weird and she's feeling a slight tummyache instead of sharing my subjective feeling of dread
Would that be better you autist?

>>279803263
No it doesn't. When the narration says that Saber walked up the steps towards Ryuudou, do you think Nasu really means that Ercole DiMeo regretted his vote for Trump in the 2024 election because he is a massive anti-Semite who loathes the Synagogue of Satan and the Zionist entity?

Please explain what is unreliable about the following excerpts:
>>279797377
>>279797559
>>279797609
>>279797600

>>279803389
If one subscribes to the idea that narration is meant to be objective, it would be. Unreliable narration has its place too, but the presence of it inherently undermines the veracity of the narration in a work.

>>279803263
>>279803448
And this one:
>>279798960

>>279803463
Figurative speech is not unreliable narration. You're so fucking autistic and retarded.

>>279792297 (OP)
You know what I really liked about fates:
- female arthur, is a good looking blond woman. (I really like female knights)
- the one summon is actually the mc from the future
- multiple big heroes from different epochs displayed (like how alexander was)
- multitude of hentai mangas

That‘s it. I really couldn‘t care less about anything else. But I am interested in the 3rd route (the cousin one)

>>279803448
>>279803469
>a poem for flavor
>a supposition
>a claim of his that ends up being contradicted by his actions later
>a scene that actually works against your point since he doubles down
>"might", "hope", "I'll do my best"
All those scenes show is intent, not results. They don't actually confirm anything decisively, and are directly contradicted by >>279792297 (OP).

>>279797465
Drown in your ideals and die.

>>279803650
>all points already refuted by
>>279799463
>>279799477
>>279799486
This is getting really sad and pathetic.

>>279803726
No, AI hallucinations don't refute anything. The only actual point that deluded wall of text actually makes boils down to "looking towards the future with hopeful words means that nothing can possibly go wrong". It's pure literal cope fueled by self-serving circular reasoning. We have Nasu himself on record confirming that while UBW made an effort to solve Shirou's issues, it wasn't enough.

>>279803626
agreed

>>279803943
>AI hallucinations don't refute anything
You had your challenge to prove the post was ChatGPT in >>279799524. You can't run to that every time someone proves themselves vastly more intelligent, erudite and studied than you.

>The only actual point that deluded wall of text actually makes boils down to "looking towards the future with hopeful words means that nothing can possibly go wrong"
No, it makes a pretty clear point that textual framing of events and characters reveal the author's intent within his broader thematic and narrative purpose. In this case, it is Shirou's rediscovering that he latched unto Kiritsugu's ideal because it made him happy, rediscovering his self-worth thanks to Rin and being molded in the image of her positive approach to and outlook on life, and choosing to become a superhero for his benefit without pursuing it at the expense of his own well-being and only pursuing it inasmuch as it makes him happy while prioritizing his relationship with Rin.

Do please tell how you know that Shirou and Sakura's relationship doesn't collapse because of their excessive trauma, and Sakura doesn't seek escape from it from degenerate promiscuity, or Shirou doesn't relapse into his old heroism, in HF.

>We have Nasu himself on record confirming
that Rin saves Shirou, yes.

>>279804257
>You had your challenge to prove the post was ChatGPT
You don't need to use AI (I think you'll find that many are opposed to using it, in fact) to recognize it when you see it, and I'm not going to train you on my feedback. If you had the capability for self-reflection, you would recognize why your posts are seen as AI-generated nonsense.
>No, it makes a pretty clear point that textual framing of events and characters reveal the author's intent within his broader thematic and narrative purpose.
Oh, that can be revealed far more succinctly with a quote directly from the author:
>Nasu: Rin’s route builds on the player’s common knowledge to reveal the truth of Shirou’s problems, and moves in the direction of solving them. But, that alone doesn’t get to solving Shirou’s problems as a damaged human being
I know you're seething about Sakura being stated to be the one exception for Shirou who manages to solve his problem and make him grow as a person, but letting her live rent-free in your head and lapsing into tangents about her whenever people criticize UBW really isn't doing you any favors. We're talking about Rin and UBW here.

>>279792297 (OP)
The message of FSN is Urobuchi is a better writer

>>279794877
Archer proves that he's not happy doing that stuff.
>>279800052
>story about copies surpassing originals
Shirou never surpassed Gil. He had help and plot armor. And UBW is about accepting his ideals and not about powerlevels lmao
>>279801253
Rin was a side character in the UBW route. It's mostly Archer and Shirou.

>>279796651
>written by someone who isn't Nasu and is 20 years after the ORIGINAL UNCENSORED FSN
Lmao
Rinkeks still seething their route is filler, I see.

why do people still fight about this? the true ending for saber shows us that she wins in every route. UBW shirou will reunite with saber, HF shirou will reunite with saber, its honestly pretty fucked for both rin and sakura. the franchise as a whole pushes shirou and saber more than any other ship, it even got content in the gachaslop last time i heard

I remember reading this doujin where loli Rin and Kirei had sex and kissed but now I can't find it, which makes me wonder if I just hallucinated that.

>>279804830
eww

>>279804738
>Rin was a side character in the UBW route
Rin's character arc is deeply intertwined with Shirou's, wherein she is presented as his foil, a more mentally stable and self-confident version of him. Both of their characters revolve around their inner conflict derivative of the seemingly irreconcilable nature between their personal happiness and their pursuing the life path bequeathed unto them by their fathers. Tokiomi and Kiritsugu entrusted to Rin and Shirou respectively the aims of becoming a true magus and true ally of justice. This seeming contradiction is over the course of the narrative resolved by having the two characters realize that the paths they had inherited were not foisted upon them against their own choosing, but were rather something the two of them had earnestly and sincerely desired of their own volition. Both of them found happiness and fulfillment in the life path that they had inherited -- neither was an automaton simply pursuing a goal they had no interest in whatsoever. On the contrary, Rin wanted to be a magus because she found practicing magecraft fun and compelling; Shirou was the victim of a tragedy that left him guilty for having lived through sheer luck when so many others had not. Incapable of pursuing that which made him happy for his own sake, he grew to find happiness in helping others and bringing them joy, deluding himself that he was not a regular human being who deep down wanted to be happy just like anyone else.

The primary difference between the two is that Rin suffers nowhere near from the same amount of self-loathing and lack of self-worth that Shirou does; whereas Shirou needs the aid of Rin to realize that he chose to be a hero and devote himself to helping others precisely because it made him happy, Rin always has a positive and pleasure seeking outlook on life, always trying to make the best of it. (cont)

>>279804738
>>279805295
In Shirou's defect, she tells Shirou she would not be a magus if she didn't find it fun to begin with. Indeed, her positive outlook is fundamental to her relationship with Shirou: it is precisely Rin's fun and upbeat personality that draws Shirou to her, among other things to be discussed further on. In Rin and Shirou's relationship, it is in fact Shirou more often than not who plays the role of the tsundere rather than Rin -- it is central to Shirou's characterization that he feels uncomfortable around Rin precisely because he feels so happy around Rin. He wants to be around her because he wants to be happy, and that provokes a cognitive dissonance in him as he considers himself unworthy of such happiness. Part of the point of the date scene prior to Caster's kidnapping Taiga is that at the end of it, Shirou's expresses fondness for teasing Rin back. It is meant to show that Shirou's answer to his issues is right in front of him, staring him in the face while eating a sandwich -- he only has to let go of the fire, let go of the past, and he can find happiness with her. Their moment to moment character dynamic of her aggressively making fun of Shirou and provoking reactions out of him is meant to be a microcosm of the overall dynamic that underpins their relationship: Rin helps Shirou learn to love himself. It is through seeing how much Rin, the girl he has fallen in love with, loves him and wants him to be happy, that he gradually regains his self-worth and learns to love himself, too. It is through the reflection of Rin's eye that Shirou sees how valuable his life, it is by seeing how the Shirou in Rin's eye as opposed to the Shirou in his mirror that Shirou comes to love himself by loving Rin.

And the overall point of Shirou's romance with Rin is that it parallels and buttresses his relationship with his ideal. (cont)

>>279804738
>>279805295
>>279805318
The whole point of UBW thematically speaking is that Shirou reconciles himself to the fact that he can never attain his impossible ideal, but that continuing to pursue is valuable in and of itself. It is the relentless struggle to achieve the ideal in spite of the recognition it is impossible to do so that is actually more valuable and admirable than if the impossible were actually achievable. Shirou loves Rin because she is a relentless perfectionist who never gives up in the face of an insurmountable obstacle. Shirou had always admired Rin as the perfect honour student at school, but when he meets her, he is shocked to realize that Rin isn't as she presented herself. She's cranky, easily irritable, clumsy, frequently makes mistakes and is overly self-critical of herself; it is her perfectionism that leads her to adopting an impossible standard for herself. She is overwhelmed by doubts and insecurities about herself, yet she still suppresses them and refuses to show just how much the things around her affect her. She swallows everything and carries it around like a burden, while showing no sign of doing so. For Shirou, the fact that she isn't perfect makes her *more* than perfect -- the fact that she has so many flaws and insecurities yet still comes so close to being perfect, always manages to get up and dust herself off after a failure to continue her unceasing assault like nothing had happened, perseveres despite the responsibilities on her shoulder and all her doubts, makes her greater than if she had none at all. That is why Shirou is hellbent on making Rin see the Tohsaka that *he* is -- the point of the confession scene, aside from showing the first time that Shirou pursues something for his own sake, that he saves someone because they make *him* happy as opposed to atoning for an imaginary sin... (cont)

>>279804738
>>279805295
>>279805318
>>279805349
is that Shirou wants to remind Rin that she is truly strong willed and powerful, and that she shouldn't let her doubts and failures get to her. He wants to be there to help Rin be the best he can be, because seeing her persevere in doing so is what makes him admire her. Just like his ideal, he loves her despite knowing she can never be perfect -- if not *for* it.

Indeed, it is Shirou's own obdurate bravery and persistence that made her fall in love with him: she saw him as an inspiration. Whenever she felt she was not up to something, whenever she felt she wasn't good enough, that she wouldn't succeed -- she always remembered Shirou. His relentless willpower and inner strength gave *her* strength. If Rin helps Shirou learn to love himself and lead a happy life pursuing something which makes him happy, by helping him change his mentality towards his ideal, pursuing it only insofar as it makes him happy, and by giving him something other than helping others that makes him happy, so too does Shirou's positive influence help Rin the wonderous good girl who wants to have fun and help others triumph over Tohsaka the ruthless calculating magus. His morality and willpower push Tohsaka towards her authentic self, rather than her corrupted self that seeks to emulate her father. He accentuates the good in her while ameliorating the bad.

Indeed, the way the story is structured between the two is truly brilliant. The narrative of UBW begins with contrasting Rin and Shirou's competence in order to ingrain the image of her as a talented, prodigious and precocious magus above all else. (cont)

>>279804738
>>279805318
>>279805349
>>279805371
Rin shows initiative and keeps her cool during the confrontation with Berserker and Illya, whereas by contrast, Shirou freezes and feels despair over his ineptitude and impotency; on Day 4 of the route, in the aftermath of their fight with Berserker, Rin spends her day chasing after Caster, while Shirou mostly spends his day indulging in nonsense with his close ones, dismissive of the fact he has entered a life or death conflict. When Rin attacks Shirou at the school on Day 5, it helps show her efforts to kill her inner good side in order to conform to the magus ideal: after all, she later on states on Shirou that she has no intent whatsoever to attack Shinji because he is no tangible threat to her at all. So her stated reason of attacking Shirou because he is a weak link in the conflict is false -- she attacks him because she cares about him and she wants to convince him and herself that she *doesn't*. She attacks Shirou because she thinks that he will distort her objectivity, that her feelings for him will cause her to lose her edge and fall short of the amoral, ruthless magus ideal of her father. Yet when a student is harmed, Rin immediately forgets about her effort to suppress her humanity, and instead uses the presence of another Holy Grail War participant as a convenient excuse to form an alliance with Shirou and spend more time around him, getting to know him.

She further shows sorrow and regret at Archer's attacking Shirou during Day 6 on Day 7, and the Bloodfort scene is masterfully utilized to subvert and undermine the dichotomy between Shirou and Rin as the clueless novice and talented expert that the route had constructed, by having Shirou remain calm in the face of the melting bodies of the students of their high school, while Rin trembles and is rendered petrified when confronted with the horrors surrounding her. (cont)

>>279804738
>>279805349
>>279805371
>>279805396
Bloodfort is when UBW really gets going: Shirou's bizarre reaction to people's melting leads to Rin's discovering his trauma and distorted mindset; and Rin's fear and doubt end up making Shirou realize that her persona of a tough relentless magus is but that, a persona. It is easily one of the most compelling and adroitly written sequences I have ever experienced in storytelling.

Further compelling is the juxtaposition of Rin's concern for Shirou during their date, prompted by her realizing the day prior that Shirou genuinely does not care for him own well-being with her cold and dismissive demeanour towards his suffering after he loses Saber to Caster. As Rin admits herself, she hopes to return Saber to Shirou and renew her alliance with him, and even states to Archer that she has no intention of breaking it off until he decides to bow out -- yet when he confronts her on the rooftop, she makes no attempt whatsoever to comfort him or divulge her intentions. Rather, she just rubs salt in his wounds and warns him of his impotence. Once again, Rin is being dishonest about her feelings, forcing herself to be cruel and insensitive in order to prevent her affection for Shirou to prevent her from being what her father wanted her to be. She is not being true to herself, but rather adopting a persona to veil her humanity underneath. And that is what makes her admitting to Archer that she loves Shirou so compelling.

The finale also characterizes Rin perfectly -- she has fully committed herself to helping Shirou achieve his impossible dream by doing something wholly unpragmatic, trying to save Shinji while attempting to stop Gilgamesh. (cont)

>>279804738
>>279805371
>>279805396
>>279805413
Her lending her mana to Shirou which allows him to activate his Reality Marble is symbolic of Rin's helping Shirou achieve his dream with her love and support: Shirou becomes a superhero through the aid of the most important person in his life. Her taking on Saber as her Servant is symbolic of her empowering and adopting his ideal as well. Her saving Shinji, despite his attempting to rape her earlier, shows just how much influence Shirou had had on Rin over the course of the narrative. The supposedly practical ruthless magus has surrendered herself wholly to her love for Shirou, her inner goodness and her unbridled idealism. Shirou's love her triumphed over her father's heritage.

The story of course end with the classroom scene, a microcosm of Rin and Shirou's future, and why she will save him: because Rin matters to Shirou more than his ideal. Despite his stating that he is ideologically opposed to the Mage's Association, he still with no doubt or deliberation whatsoever chooses to accompany Rin to London, because he loves her more than his ideal. Above all, he wants to be with his Tohsaka. And the anime epilogue cleverly parallels Shirou's choosing to temporarily sacrifice his pursuit of his ideal for Rin's sake with Rin's deciding to prioritize accompanying Shirou on his travels over and above her study of magecraft.

A most truly beautiful, romantic conclusion to the greater romance of all time.

l8 replies but I was busy
>>279801253
Suppose so, but Archer was still the one instigating Shirou's character development. Rin played a big role too but that mainly stemmed from her own sub-arc about having to repress her true self by being a lineage magus.
In that sense it compliments Shirou more since his GF struggles aren't explained entirely through interludes. Sakura's arc is beautiful in concept but the fact she keeps way too many things to herself makes Shirou look schizophrenic in comparison with how much of the arc he needs to process in his head alone.
>>279801350
Yeah, I listened to early Sakura too. Prior to reading the VN I watched 3 episodes of DEEN Stay Night, and the mid-00s budget kino ended up convincing me to experience the story in its true form. While the vocal performance is slightly better, I'd say the bitrate-crunched RN audio exasperates the syphilis. You can even hear the audio peak and compress at times from how high-pitched the whispering gets. Is stuff like Carnival Phantasm and Hollow Ataraxia considered early too? Cause the latter got VOs with the Vita release, years after RN on the PS2.
Regardless, will definitely watch the anime adaptations in the future. I'll groan in frustration over Shirou getting next to no monologues or the animation being QUALITY or the faces looking weird but I'm excited to see what each studio brought to the table.
>>279801522
Even on jail time, you can live a happy life as long as you have glasses! Beautiful, breathtaking, Gorgon-suppressing GLASSES!

I guess some art dilettantes get their kicks critiquing the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, so why not attack Fate/Stay Night too?

Your naïveté is almost charming. The game has none of the "answers" to these questions you ask. It only asks new, more complicated questions. That's what real art, real revelatory art, does. Nasu, like Dante or Homer before him, stirs us toward a new perception of our own humanity.

I have read 30,000-word essays from learned men simply unpacking the true end of Shirou waking up as a reborn creature. They haven't even scratched the surface of mastering the material.

What I'm saying is, you are so far above your pay grade here that it's embarrassing. Nasu belongs to the ages, and the ones that come after is will better understand what he's merely hinting at with Fate/Stay Night.

>copypasta spam
I think we broke him, guys.

>>279805482
Dumb question, but do Route warriors really spam threads like this? I guess Seibafags do truly win from having the least popular route

>>279805465
Carnival Phantasm is somewhere in the middle. It's not as bad as it was in RN, but I'd say CCC and the Ufotable adaptations were where she started making her voice deeper (speaking of CCC, Passionlip is voiced by Yui Ogura, but her kind of voice is actually one that Noriko Shitaya could pull off and used a lot back for characters during the 00s). Hollow Ataraxia has her improved modern voice since it was first voiced in 2014.

>>279804940
I know right? Doing that before marriage is wrong.

>>279804540
>it's AI because I said so!
Sakurakikes, everyone.

It's really interesting how hard you've been contradicting yourself, though. In one post, you argue that Shirou is separated from Rin; in another, you have to admit that Nasu's interview statements show Rin stays with Archer and he doesn't become Archer because of her. Yet you don't care to openly concede, despite arguing for the entire thread in favour of a point contradicted by Nasu himself. It's almost like you're a seething kike with motivated reasoning her.

>Oh, that can be revealed far more succinctly with a quote directly from the author:
You mean this one?
>The first route shows his fanatical way of thinking, the second route shows a solution, and the third shows another answer for him as a human. "Fate" is written as an escalating story from a game standpoint, but every ending is equal. Please think of them as different answers.
Oof. Yikes. Yeah, seems like Nasu is against you.

>>279805673
Thanks for the info. Going to read HA right after SN cause Bazzy & Avenger seem neat. Part of me is going to regret it since it's a short experience but it really does seem like an emotional send-off to the setting.

I get really excited when a post in these threads gets a lot of replies but its always followed by disappointment because it turns out its always the same autist getting triggered and mass replying to one post with his paragraphs of analysis from 5 years ago.

>>279805949
Prillya cunny threads might actually be saner at this point

>>279803626
There's no cousin route in Fate.
>>279805561
This is a particularly bad schizo Rinfag known as tldrhino. He spams threads with his Rin folder and bloated and overly verbose essays, only to frequently have mask off /pol/fag moments that reveal how low his IQ actually is. He's extremely butthurt about Archer, Sakura and criticism of Rin's role in UBW to the point of spamming threads at the slightest mention of them, and believes everyone who makes him butthurt is some Youtuber who he apparently whined about enough for them to take notice and change their name into one that's filtered here (he'll most likely accuse me of being them too for pointing this out). He also self-inserts as Rin according to his Tumblr, by the way.

>>279792297 (OP)
>What was the message of UBW?
disregard women, make swords.

>>279805832
it's the best

>>279806001
Sad! He should respect Emiya el forma de Guardian. And the purple one too
>>279806055
Karen's bombshell tiddies make my throat dry

>>279806093
blessed be angra for thoroughly fucking her

>>279801201
Opinion on HF normal?

>>279806001
This post reminds me of Melori talking about how Austin is real.

>>279806130
Everyone says Gilg this and Shinji that when Angra's tism urges are the ones that truly represent us /a/nons
>>279806153
Make a thread later and I'll probably be there to give it. It's Rider v Seiba time now.

the concept of a hero in Fate is retarded

>>279798078
>Shirou dies young in every route according to Nasu
From overwhelming his magic circuits?

>>279806434
Nasu has never specified.

>>279806001
The evidence that has been posted of the existence of Random Alias is pretty incontrovertible from what I've read of it. Care to refute it, guy who is totally not Random Alias?

>>279792297 (OP)
Only Sakura's pussy could save him
>>279792507
BASED

>>279806782
Tyrone's property

>>279806326
It really is. That's why Heaven's Feel is the only rational route.
>>279806868
>Tyrone's property
t. gatchafaggot who never played the novel

>>279805699
>you have to admit that Nasu's interview statements show Rin stays with Archer
No?
>The first route shows his fanatical way of thinking, the second route shows a solution, and the third shows another answer for him as a human.
This doesn't contradict anything. UBW "shows" a solution, it just doesn't apply it. Here's another quote regarding the subject taken directly from the VN:
>The question of how Shirou should exist is presented in Saber and Rin's routes. One of the answers is Sakura's route, "Heavens Feel".

>>279807345
The result I got yesterday is even funnier
as if he wouldn't decline and do that to the AI instead

>>279807623
Caren won so hard!

Archer won bigly in the end

>>279806782
Gotta admit, Sakura in a cutesy princess dress fits her the best

>>279808037
Made for Gil.

>>279807109
>UBW "shows" a solution, it just doesn't apply it.
That's quite the cope. The quote would've said that HF shows *and applies* the solution in contrast to UBW. Instead, it uses the same parallel language. Per your logic, HF doesn't "apply its solution" either. And before you cope with "But Shirou rejects the answer!" it clearly says different solution.

>One of the answers is Sakura's route, "Heavens Feel".
Correct. HF is one of the answers, Fate and UBW the other two. HF merely elaborates upon Shirou's dilemma presented in Fate and UBW. Hence why it is "only" one of the answers.

>>279807109
What's up with this mentally ill Sakurakek who always starts shucking and jiving every time he sees a typo as if it somehow means he's winning? Deeply disturbed behaviour.

>>279806001
>He also self-inserts as Rin according to his Tumblr, by the way.
Link it.

>>279806502
The reason probably differs depending on the route. Shirou’s got a poor sense of self-preservation, after all.
>>279809418
He’s called Rinshiroufan over there.

>>279808074
Rin is a fascist?

>>279809990
It's just Schweinorg heritage, don't worry about it

Rin is Lesbian

>>279798078
I read the same interview that you are citing so I will disclose a couple of caveats that apply to almost everything non-official Type-Moon. Firstly, that the translators of extra materials, be they interviews, books released in comiket or panel discussions, are not the best and often skip out important context. And secondly, Nasu said he PICTURES Shirou as someone always young and had a hard time figuring out a Shirou that is "get your hands off of my 5th grandkid or I will UBW your anus" old. And said "old Shirou" is Senji Muramasa, who appears in F/GO, has massive "I love swords" and "automatic rifles are degenerate" energy simultaneously, and F/GO spoilers dies while making the ultimate sword using a Saberface's life force because if he didn't die the Seiba would have instead.

>>279792297 (OP)
It's simple, Heaven's Feel is the canonical route.

>>279805786
I don't think Astolfo would ever lay his hands on JC's

Aw man, the thread got bumped again! And Random Alias was just itching to sage respond after getting BTFOd too hard.

>>279798633
>>279798633
Pretty sure Medea situation with Jason is potrayed as bad everywhere

>>279793516
We don't know a 100% but all the Extra stuff seems to imply middle east chicanery. Either way that's not what breaks him it's being a janitor for humanity after he dies

>>279798556
It's something that would only ever happen in HF though. Under normal circumstances, he wouldn't be forced to kill the one he loves in order to save the world. That's an extremely abnormal scenario that doesn't happen in the majority of timelines.

>>279804738
>Archer proves that he's not happy doing that stuff.
He literally died with a smile on his face. It was the counter guardian work that bit him in the ass.

>>279812638
But Medea's always madly in love with Jason.

>>279810772
YOU are a lesbian.

I prefer this guy. He should've been the protagonist.

>>279808946
>Fate and UBW the other two
Actually, the VN says they're the question (the implied "other answer" was probably meant to be the Illya route). Here's another Nasu quote, though:
>with Fate, as a writer I strongly wanted to write an even greater story, whose routes would have been diluted if I used standard multiple endings. The quality of each route would unavoidably have been reduced to 50%, 50% and 50%. To overcome this problem, I started by creating a 70% route, then a 20% route that I brought to 90%, and finally aimed for a story that began at 40% and increased to 110%. The distances traveled in each route are about the same, but I wanted to make the starting point for each gradually ramp up until the final one just went all out. I thought that if I could pull this off, then it would be meaningful to write a long story.
>To speak about Fate specifically, the first Saber route serves as the basis for the player's common knowledge. It explains the rules of the world and the protagonist's general circumstances, but doesn't touch on why Emiya Shirou is such a twisted human being. It leaves you with the impression that there's something wrong with this protagonist.
>Next, Rin's route builds on the player's common knowledge to reveal the truth of Shirou's problems, and moves in the direction of solving them. But that alone doesn't get to solving Shirou's problems as a damaged human being, so the final Sakura route contains my answer to how this twisted protagonist can grow as a person and spread his wings.
>In this way, by bringing readers to the story's final destination, I could tell the story of Fate and show the appeal of each heroine, as well as describe how Emiya Shirou eventually ends up as a human.
>The destination I aimed for was one where the machine Emiya Shirou - who had pretended to be a person pursuing his ideals - was able to become human by finally saving someone.

>>279813490
I'm a man I can't be a Lesbians. Rin is my waifu and she is Lesbian and she hates men.

>>279813562
I wish Waver fags would fuck off and die with their pussy ass faggot self insert.

>>279811641
/thread

>>279813676
>Actually, the VN says they're the question
Which doesn't mean they don't also present an answer. You do realize that your own added quote undermines your point, right? Nasu is pretty clear: "Please think of them as different answers."

>the implied "other answer" was probably meant to be the Illya route
That is not implied anywhere in the statement. Pure projection.

>Here's another Nasu quote
Yup, perfectly in line with >>279805699: every route is an answer that equally valid, but each new route explores a new facet of the themes and characters that were in an embryonic form in the prior route.

But thanks for admitting there is nothing in HF itself per se that shows that Sakura doesn't cheat on Shirou and Shirou doesn't kill himself because of his trauma, and that you are in fact relying on character themes and narrative context to infer that Sakura and Shirou get a happy ending... Which is how we know Shirou leads a happy life thanks to Rin and her love.

>>279813719
Isn't it Weaver?

>>279792297 (OP)
That going to the middle-east to become a hero is retarded because the conflict there is way more about politics and pure hatred than whatever Shirou thought

>>279813956
Japs can't into foreign names.
To this day, Nasu's retarded ass still insists Artoria's real name is Altria

>>279814044
>than whatever Shirou thought
What was he thinking?

>>279814106
It's due to merchandising issues. Some of the early merchandise for Saber spelled her name as "Altria", and ever since then the name has been stuck. And unfortunately, to Type-Moon, this isn't an important enough issue to get into a legal battle for, so it's something they just go with. On paper, Type-Moon probably has enough money to forcibly correct the issue with a payout to all the relevant parties, but they're Japanese. Why should they care because a bunch of westerners are uncomfortable?

>>279814827
>Shirou
>thinking

>>279804738
>Shirou never surpassed Gil. He had help and plot armor.
Being able to win people over and not being so locked into the idea that "this guy is just a copy, he can't beat me" aren't failures, they're the lessons of UBW. A copy can surpass the original.

>>279800052
>that isn't as satisfying as "the right track"
What is the right path?

>>279816053
It's following the path you believe in to the end.

>>279792297 (OP)
Doesn’t Rin say she’ll follow him wherever he goes?

>>279814827
Exactly

>>279815903
How does that make sense? He had Rin's Mana, Archer's Rho Aias when he was doing the UBW chant and Saber's help. It's like saying the orignals are better than fakes if Gil actually kills him if he didn't had help.

>>279801201
Hi again, just got through the true end of HF. Apparently I got it on my first go, oddly enough.
Got to say I was disappointed by the battles. Rider going all out was a great idea, but the battle itself felt short and didn't use its full potential. Shirou using Archer's shield phantasm was great but it would've made for a greater cap-off if the buildup was longer and more dramatic.
Rin v Sakura might've actually been the worst battle in the VN as far as non-Servant stuff goes. Just endless "My super-duper-uber finger gun beats your super-duper invincible palm barrier!" type of attack with stuff that wasn't given proper suspense before the fight. In no way did it make up for the lull that was the route's pacing during its final quarter.
As for the dialogue, it was mostly great. Sakura's tantrums were absolutely carried by the CV firing on all cylinders, Zouken's last-second revelation was a nice send-off to what ended up being yet another Shirou foil, Ilya played her role, and Kirei did the bare minimum amount of coolness that was asked of him.
Appropriately, everyone was on their last legs. I think Nasu managed to thread the needle just right by making Shirou's final stand ridiculously weak but not too much to the point of him being strewn around by plot strings rather than plot armor. Not even UBW Shirou was as exhausted at the end as HF's was.
Also, Luvia being in Stay Night was unironically the single biggest plot-twist I experienced while reading it. Noone fucking told me that. Same with casual Rider. And Sakura. Her tits. Her hair. Her face. Jesus Christ. That epilogue was probably the best one out of all of FSN. Even if Wakame Man couldn't live to egg on Shirou another day
To summarize my messy thoughts, HF had the highest highs and the lowest lows. I can't get myself to call it the best, but I can at least understand why people do so outside of shit like waifu wars. Hassansin my beloved. Kikikikikikikiki.
PS: the ED song sucks.

>>279817187
no sparks liner high?

>>279817531
Oh, I knew about that from the start. One of, if not the coolest "bad" ending I've experienced in a game/VN. Mighty Wind's one of the best tracks in the OST too. Dark Seiba might've been snubbed from getting a proper battle like Rider did in the other routes, but she shined bright in SLH

>>279817637
Shirou finally surpassed Seiba.

probably 5% of players only know that you can only find out what happens between the end of FSN and Shirou's death, from the Extra games, notably CCC. Shirou going off tot he middle east to get killed is something you only learn about in CCC.

>>279817076
Having help isn't a bad thing. It's actually a very good thing. You cultivate those bonds just like training.

>>279817187
Watch the movie versions of the fights if you want the fights to be all flashy and take a long time, the fact that the fights in HF can be decided by a single action is good, everything is about who hits first. Everyone is both weak but strong, so its all about who can weave their way through the others defense first.

True ending is the meaning of the game; "the sage cries out, close the gate" that poem only plays out in the final ending because that's the meaning. The ritual was mistaken from the beginning, the idea that humans should obtain heaven was wrong, the only way they could be saved was by closing the path themselves and covering their sins, and finally going back to just being human. Its a classic Frankstenstein sort of moral where you were destroyed by your own hubris, and only by acknowledging you cannot control forces beyond your control, that you can finally move on. Its the only route where the grail is actually destroyed; in every other route they only destroyed the lesser grail, which means the ritual will continue forward. HF is the only route where they killed the greater grail, which is Justica's body sealed deep beneath Ryuudou temple. The movie actually shows where they sacrifice Justica while she's still alive, crushing her body in some weird contraption which became the greater grail. Only ending where they actually reach spring, after the long winter is over, like they're finally moving forward together. Its not the end of their adventures, but its the moment where they put the past behind them and begin to move forward together. The ancient ritual which cursed this city was finally dismantled and broken, they realized that they're better off without an omnipotent wishing machine which was corrupted by the devil.

>>279818691
Tell that to the UBWfags who keeps saying Gil will always lose to Shirou.

>>279818724
>Only ending where they actually reach spring, after the long winter is over, like they're finally moving forward together.
What is the significance of Spring? A new beginning?

>>279819853
Entire game takes place within two weeks of winter, spring represents rebirth generally.

I prefer Shiki over Shirou. He is just a guy trying to survive. He helps Arcueid and does his heroic task but he doesn't do it for some childish notion of being a hero.
He is just a guy trying to live his nornal life, spending time with his bro Arihiko, trying to reconcile with his sister Akiha and trying to get chicks but he is forced to do heroic tasks always lying on the border of insanity.
Unfortunately for him he is destined to have an even shorter life than Shirou.

>>279820264
Bullshit.
I am so fucking sick of this idea of le normal guy Shiki. He is a deranged schizo who doesn't know what the fuck he wants because his brain's been scrambled since he was 8.

>>279820264
>he is destined to have an even shorter life than Shirou.
Why? Is it a spoiler?

>>279820417
died ages ago
wack ass oni heat zombie

>>279813940
A non-answer is an answer in its own way, I guess. And yet, only one route reaches the destination that the story was aiming for.
>Pure projection.
Just a simple guess based on how the Illya and Sakura routes were going to be a separate VN.
>there is nothing in HF itself per se that shows that Sakura doesn't cheat on Shirou and Shirou doesn't kill himself because of his trauma
Nothing even implies that, unlike, you know, >>279792297 (OP).

>>279820858
>were going to be a separate VN.
What would the title have been?

>>279813676
I love how the routes also escalate Shirou's abilities, from simply enhancing things and analyzing an object's structure, to using both of those to create weapons out of thin air, to finding out it's all a byproduct of a sword autism land deep in his mind..

>>279820378
NTA but Shiki very clearly wants to enjoy life for however much longer he can, that's quite literally all he ever wants. It's why despite being dealt the worst hand a person can ever have, he still goes with the flow. Aoko is even impressed by his resilience during the eclipse scene.

>>279821429
>to finding out it's all a byproduct of a sword autism land deep in his mind..
But how could he have UBW already in his mind before he even discovered those weapons?

>>279792297 (OP)
>the message of FSN
Sakura >>> everything and everyone.

period.