Hello anons, I've been learning Japanese for 2 months and already I am at a level where slice of life watchable, I'm not fluent or anything like that, far from it, but even with that fact anime has never felt so fun once I started watching without localization getting in the way.
So much subtle stuff gets really lost in the translation and scenes hit much harder when you are actually comprehending it.
Think about it this way;
You hate localizators, right? You hate the shitty subs and stuff. As long as you don't know Japanese, you're basically their bitch, no other way around it.
The only way to really break free from these people is to learn Japanese. And it can be done you just need time, consistency and invesement.
Do not fall for the "you can't learn Japanese" meme.
Also it's important to find the right methods. Avoid Duolingo obviously.
If you love anime and manga, and you are like me and consume nothing but anime/manga, you really owe it to yourself anons.
Of course it's up to you, I don't want to force anyone just encourage, I really believe for a lot of people it will be worth it. Sorry if this sounds gay, I have a fever and I thought this was a good thing to do. Keep loving anime and manga /a/, i go to bed

Genki 1
https://files.catbox.moe/sronwq.zip
Genki 2
https://files.catbox.moe/mt4rtu.zip
Genki teacher
https://files.catbox.moe/hrnkdx.zip
Hiragana/Katakana/Kangxi radicals Anki decks and Yotsuba Learning Pack
https://files.catbox.moe/9x3me2.zip

I know japanese and agree but you're preaching to the choir. Also >>>/djt/

>>280071450
I know, but there are as many people who deserve to watch anime in the best way possible.

I'm sorry but I am too stupid to learn Japanese

>>280071697
No you're not anon, learning a language doesn't necessarily correlate with intelligence.
Just think of how many retards post here daily, from all over the world, they learned English, not because they're super smart or anything. So don't worry my beautiful retard anon, it can be done.

I'd do it if I had time, but I got a 10/5 job and spend too much time on chores and the like....

>>280071803
The problem is I smoke too much weed to remember stuff...

>>280071803
>Just think of how many retards post here daily, from all over the world, they learned English, not because they're super smart or anything.
As one of those retards exposed to English-speaking culture on a daily basis, I can confirm this path leads to quick results but diminishing returns (because your fellow English speakers are those fellow retards who learned English through mere passive exposure).
>learning a language doesn't necessarily correlate with intelligence.
This is also true, but success at learning any language outside your own language family heavily depends on curiosity and intrinsic motivation. You don't need to be smart, but you do need to care enough to power through it until you can talk to real people and it starts to become rewarding.

What words in Japanese have you learned from watching your Chinese cartoons?

I don't know if this is the proper spelling but whatever.

Dostedt - What
Nani - Why
Sugoi - Awesome
Kawaii - Cute
Ohaio Gozaimas - Thank you

>Watching Akagi
>50 year old Yakuza underling says "sugoi"
>Immediately imagine him as a moe girl

>>280072344
Indeed, you need sheer passion to expose yourself to studies and immersion, every day, for plenty of hours. It gets easier once you start noticing it actually working, the first months I think is the hardest mountain where you're unsure if this is even working and you aren't just wasting your time.

Thank you OP

I don't watch anime

>>280071067 (OP)
I don't hate localizations, when you're translating you're always doing localizations in your head.

Or just stop caring so much

>>280072978
No. Some things I understand in English that would take me a long time to translate and make sense of in my language. Just understand things in the original language.
You don't translate "senpai" when you already know what it means.

>>280072583
>Mattaku
Unbelievable, ridiculous
>Yare Yare
Ugh
>Mendoukusai, often shortened
What a pain in the ass
>Yatta
Wooo we won! Lets fucking go

And then the most powerful word of all
>EEEEH?

>>280072583
>chinko
heh.
>unko
heehee!

Good thread anon. Keep up the good practice!

It's hard for me to do immersion when my interests are mostly history, and so long form online Nipponese content on that subject is several levels above my capability, not one or even two like it's suggested.

I like anime, manga, and lns. I don't like learning another language

>>280076862
And gaming!

>>280071067 (OP)
It's just not worth it, most people's brains just aren't wires to learn a new language past development stages.

>>280071067 (OP)
/a/ are fucking lazytards. A post like this is not going to change anything.
The only solution is to stop spoonfeeding them translations.

>>280071067 (OP)
I'm trying to learn japanese by watching japanese youtube videos. I think I need to put more effort into learning it than just passively watching few videos.

>>280071067 (OP)
>I've been learning Japanese for 2 months and already I am at a level where slice of life watchable,
Sure, buddy

>>280077424
sorry about your low IQ

>>280077447
Sure, buddy :)

>>280072583
From watching Yugioh up until episode 100 of 5Ds so far, 'kougeki' (attack) has become seared into my brain.

For anyone thinking: "Hey, I really animu and shit and I'll probably always like it, I should learn Japanese", that was me for 20+ years. Start right now.

>>280072164
You can probably still do it, anon.
My job is also full time, cerebral work type of shit dealing with team chaos, clients and management, so my brain is usually fried by the end of the workday.
I've been doing 2 hs on average for the past 280 days and it's been very rewarding.

>>280076941

>>280072583
I really like だから. I hear it all the time now that I'm more aware of what's being said, and I've been able to hear it in loads of different contexts and decipher which meaning of だから the character is using.

I burned out hard with Anki, how do I recover

>>280071067 (OP)
2 months isn't very long....

>>280071067 (OP)
yeah whatever but why don't you take it to /jp/?
It's fine to learn languages and all but you have to spam it every thread. There's a thread discussing publishers and you go "omg why do you need publishers??" and spam oneliners. You're too full of yourself.

>>280079273
i mean, isn't it admirable to tell regular people that yes, they can learn too? maybe someone who doesn't visit /jp/ will be inspired..

>>280078931
You don't have to do new words every day. Maybe cut that amount in half, or do a week of nothing but reviews until the daily reviews stabilizes.
Also, people doing more than 20 new cards per day are freaks.

>>280071803
>>280072344
>muh roman languages can learn each other
No shit.
Try reading what this means.
@**@&&#00))**&&

That is what asian 'language' reads like to roman based people.
It is not a language but a symbol rune puzzle.
There is a reason even the natives don't know their own writing system and use romanji as a crutch, also you pronounce these languages in romanized letters btw because that's how humans speak.

>>280079725
you sound butthurt, learn 100 or 200 kanji and it becomes much easier

>>280079785
I have a 10 hour job until 2 am.

>>280079822
but didn't you learn 100 league characters, or 100 dota characters, or 100 pokemon or something? it's not as hard as you think

Sweet revenge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHceVBQ0dfs

>>280080297
>she
Yep. You need troon autism to learn japanese.

>>280079838
You don't have to talk in Pokemon characters. Actually learning Japanese takes a long time with concerted, daily effort.

>>280080577
yes, i've done SRS for a few years and I'm trying to convince the tourist that learning the most popular kanji isn't as hard as they think.

>>280071067 (OP)
Honestly anime and manga these days have become slopified like everything else so there's really no point. It's the same slop whether it's in nip or burger

>>280072344
If you are here, you are probably exposed to the Japanese language daily to at least anime,in a similar way you are exposed to English due to being a global language, so you have no excuses.

>>280071067 (OP)
Thank you for your service Ken-sama, after just two months you are even more fluent in japanese than the Nips themselves.

>>280080640
>knowing the vocalization is the same as knowing the written part
Anyone can learn to speak japanese, writing it is hard and useless as well.

>>280071067 (OP)
I hate the kanji so much.
I wish Japanese was a romance language with a latin alphabet instead of these derived chink moonrunes.

>>280071067 (OP)
>Learning Japanese in the age of AI and MTL
>Image translator exists
>Streaming services translate/dub everything
I’d rather wait a few years and pay for a service

>>280080897
slave to a machine, slave to others, slave to time. Also
>two more weeks

>>280080714
but kanji look cool

>>280080714
>>280080897
if you start you learn then you notice that kanji actually help you.

>>280081167
I only recognize shita and ue

With some basic Japanese knowledge, a dictionary open and a whole lot of determination I played that one untranslated JRPG I always wanted to play
Now I no longer have a reason to keep studying Japanese

I appreciate you trying to learn Japanese but fuck all of you for not using kana. Romaji is a disgrace

>>280081214
not sure those even have kanji

>>280081214
You mean ge and kami/jou?

>>280081318
enlighten me please

>>280081337
下 (げ)
上 (じょう)
上 (かみ)

>>280072978
No when you understand Japanese you just hear it and think in Japanese. Just like you understand English
>>280077170
This is not true, very defeatist and not based on any facts. Many people have done this in their 20s. This kind of mindset is just an excuse not to even try.
>>280080897
The whole AI thing is just a cope. Nothing will replace properly understanding the language and thinking in it

>>280079369
I do 25 cards per day....
average 93% retention for young cards
average 87% retention for mature cards
How is this freaky?

>>280079369
You ain't seen nothing yet... Hopefully
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUSv0ZvD9kg

>>280076738
Why not just watch anime for immersion?

>>280077424
It's possible if he's a NEET. I got to that level after 6 months, and that was when I was in high school with a fuckton of responsibilities. Pouring 3x more time into Japanese than me shouldn't be that hard.
Note that "watchable" doesn't mean "independently watchable". He probably has to look up 100 words in a dictionary and spend an hour on research per episode. But that's enough to be free from the shackles of localization.

>>280078931
Drop Anki. Just read.

>>280071450
>Also >>>/djt/
HAHAHAHAH LMAO no, the worst thing anyone starting to learn jap is to go to fucking /djt/, literal schizoid central, looks like a fucking mental asylum with 10 people talking to themselves thinking they're participating in a conversation, while having a crab mentality issues bigger than /agdg/
it's infinitely more productive to just ask chatgpt for help than fucking /djt/

>>280083448
/a/ had a /djt/ years ago, mods banned it from the anime and manga board...because why would a fan of japanese art want to be able to read it in its native language, they left it to fester on shitholes like /jp/

I have been learning Japanese for 10+ years but I still need a dictionary when watching anime.
I do not regret, it’s a completely different experience from watching with subs.

>>280085703
How many hours of those 10 years were you studying for (including watching anime)?

>>280071803
I learned English through video games, internet and cartoons. I also have been living in Japan for 5 fucking years and still barely can hold a conversation. Only shows I can watch without subs are stuff for literal babies.

>>280084470
They should just have stickied a guide. The discussion itself was terrible and still is.
If people here have trouble with understanding a manga or anime they should just make a new thread here instead of those eternal hell holes.

>>280072583
>Ohaio Gozaimas - Thank you
Check your things twice before posting.

>>280086138
What was your original language?

>>280085703
Don't worry, a Japanese 10 year old would need a dictionary (or a living dictionary substitute, like a parent) when watching anime too.

>>280086479
I think there is generally an expectation that someone studying a second language as an adult would pick it up faster than someone acquiring it for the first time. Since you're able to use your original language get an idea of what the new words mean.

>>280086138
It doesn't matter where you live if you're holed up on the internet the entire time.

>>280080897
it's actually now it's worth learning Japanese, because most of the things you're going to read from now on is going to be translated subpar with AI and MTL
so if you want the full experience, you've got no choice but to learn Japanese

>>280087927
Hasn't that been true for years? Only very few manga even get translated in the first place and I don't think that's going to change just because of some translation services. There simply isn't enough money to be made with manga overseas.

>>280086138
How muhc of Japanese content have you actually consumed?

>I've been living in Japanese for 10 years, I don't watch Japanese content nor do I study at all, how come I don't know any Japanese?
>Clearly learning Japanese is impossible and it's not my fault.

>>280086026
I don't keep track of things like that.
I spent first year memorizing kana and reading grammar guide. Afterwards it's all consuming real materials and looking up dictionaries. Nowdays I watch about one hour of anime per day on workdays.

>>280071067 (OP)
That's too much effort for your average anime watcher

>>280071067 (OP)
Hating localization is a mid wit take, real Japanese maestros appreciate good localizations

>>280083356
If you need to do dictionary lookups for your media consumption then you legitimately understand less than your average shitty localization. Getting feeling of stuff right is basically the tail end of your learning.

>>280080667
I only read eroge.

>>280088886
>Hating localization is a mid wit take, real Japanese maestros appreciate good localizations
for some odd reason actual good translations and localizations are looked down upon by weebs. They'd rather have literal translations where the point gets lost in translation and that Japanese words are kept untranslated because they feel more nippon that way or something.
Honestly the weeb culture is so deranged. I sometimes feel embarrassed being part of this cutlure.

>He escaped his designated thread

>>280088886
>>280089099
Stop trying to bait me please

>>280086479
They don't. Children are honestly much better at understanding stuff even without knowing all the words because their grammar is perfect.

>>280089162
Present your argument

>>280088886
weeb pidgin>>>>>localizashit

>>280089209
I won't, because you're not honest, you're just saying stuff to derail the thread and to make people angry, I'm telling you it didn't work, I won't reply anymore. Try harder next time, I refuse to believe people of that nature would post here, I won't entertain that idea.

>>280080714
The more I learn about them, the more I love kanji. They make reading so quick and pleasant. You don't need to go out of your way to parse the letters and sounds like in our awkward languages. The very visual appearance of the word immediately gives away its true, full meaning. It's like magic.

>>280089313
I've been watching anime for 20+ years and have been to a Japanese basic course twice, self-studied with Anki like three times to around 300-500 kanji before hitting the wall not remembering any more of them... What the heck have you been doing to reach the point you just described?

>>280089446
NTA but start by not giving up when you've barely left the starting line. And start to actually use the language as soon as you can, anki is a tool to be used to learn something, not the way to learn the language, if you get what I mean.

>>280089446
You aren’t meant to stop doing anki, ever. That’s not how it works.

>>280088886
Can confirm, am Japanese master.

>>280083356
What did you do? Just anime with Japanese subs + yomitan? I’ve been grinding out Anki but I still feel like I’m not ready for immersion. I know I’ll never be ready, and I’ll have to jump off the boat someday

>>280089724
It's better to do it sooner than later anon, no reason to delay it, immersion is a good way to acquire what you learned through anki, you just have to deal with the ambiguity, anki is best to be used alongside with immersion, pick some easy slower show, my tip is to watch shows you've already seen, no matter how long time ago. Pick a slice of life or something like K-ON and put on Japanese subs
https://jimaku.cc/entry/941
I really believe that immersion is the key, it needs to be done, you won't understand a lot, but you eventually will especially if you will combine it with Anki studies/grammar studies it is incredibly powerful.
I also recommend looking into Japanese Youtube, replace all the content you watch with Japanese language. It all pays off, yes it will hurt and feel annoying, but immersion is the true winner, some people might laugh at you for listening to stuff you don't understand, but this is actually how people learned English.

>>280089850
Thank you anon. I’ll try that. Most of my entertainment is from Japan anyway, so switching languages shouldn’t be too jarring of a change

>>280089850
And by the last part, I mean this is how foreigners learned English, English is everywhere, they were forced to immerse, to play games in English, watch YouTube in English. That's how people learned English.
There are English subjects all over schools, yes, but people who didn't immerse themselves with English at home didn't reach fluency, it is those that actually engaged with the language properly. Learning Japanese is the same way. You learn by doing stuff

>>280089446
It's not enough to grind anki decks. You have to see the kanji in real use to really take them in. The human brain wasn't made for bland machine work like that, it wants context and purpose to accept information.

So start reading as soon as you dare to. Don't be intimidated even if you don't understand anything at first and don't start skimming. Just patiently check the characters you don't know and make sure you've understood every sentence before moving on. Little by little, it gets faster and easier, and your learning rate will grow dramatically.

Manga and light novels with furigana are an easy way to get into reading at first, but furigana easily becomes a crutch and an excuse to avoid looking at the kanji. The earlier you leave that level behind, the better.

>>280089446
Don't listen to this nerd >>280089556

The #1 most effective way to learn is to just read/watch/play whatever you're interested in, looking up words and expressions you don't understand as you go. Nobody learns a language by memorizing a dictionary.

i finished a begginer's anki deck last week
i know some extreme basics but i feel like i actually lerarned something
i don't have much time per day but i manage to watch one episode and do a page or two of reading, so if i can do it, you can too
let's do it together anon

>>280089556
I learned Japanese without ever using Anki and I did better than 99% of anons.

>>280091337
I learned Japanese with some help from using Anki and I did better than 99% of anons.

You don't need to use anki, but you do need to immerse, simple as that, anki just helps with the process.
There is a really good deck called jlab.
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/911122782
I found this to be really good at explaining grammar points really precisely, I think this deck is really fun, the only thing that I dislike is romanji but you can remove that somehow, I really recommend this deck though.

Im trying to build a practice routine so I can just read manga. Im going to buy a Kanji notebook i can write in to practice.
I just need to make a practice routine

This is probably a good thread for this, but I've been going over the core6k/10k vocab for like the last half year. Why the fuck does the front card NOT have furigana but the back side does? Like 60% of the time it feels like I can remember the kanji and the definition but not the kana or the furigana and the definition but not the kanji. This wouldn't be a problem, but there are a lot of vocabs here that are using their kanji form where I've only seen their kana form before and it really throws things off. For example, I don't think I have ever seen 凄い in anything I've read, while すごい is much more common

>>280091522

>>280091684
>Why the fuck does the front card NOT have furigana but the back side does?
Because that's cheating. I remember some retard telling me "Nah you'll never see 位 used for くらい ever!" and not even a week later I did encounter it. Especially for all the words in the core deck, you should be able to read all of them without furigana. If anything a lot of words in the core deck aren't even in kanji form in the first place, like the previously mentioned くらい but also common words like 有難う御座います and ご馳走様/お粗末様.

>>280091684
I don't know what you read, but I see 凄い a lot more than just gana, even in manga and web novels.

悪い　is used all the time, it's 可愛い that's so rarely used I was shocked to find out it actually has a kanji.

>>280092060
可愛がる is often written with kanji though.

>>280092060
I have never-ever seen kawaii spelled with hiragana in the 10+ years of reading japanese.

>>280092021
Not in older video games apparently

>>280092104
I see it written in kana a lot in my oshi's chatroom though

>>280092165
Older as in cassette games often had to save space so no room for kanji. If by older you mean PS3 era, it just depends on the writer.

>>280091920
>that's cheating
So? Isn't this thing a damn training tool?
>>280092243
>PS3 era
Anon, PS3 might be two decades old, but even PS2 games have kanji. I'm talking about GBA old. Like Pokemon or some shit.Even some of the other games in that GBA era that have kanji look like shit because of the technology in that era

>>280092426
>Isn't this thing a damn training tool?
Getting the answer right away isn't training.

>>280092514
I disagree. The answer is the definition and not the kana.

>>280092570
Knowing the reading is infinitely more useful than knowing the definition
It takes 1 seconds to look up the definition of a word if you only know the reading
It takes 30+ seconds to look up the reading of a word if you only know the definition
Ideally you should know both unassisted

>>280092104
>I have never-ever seen kawaii spelled with hiragana in the 10+ years of reading japanese.

>>280071067 (OP)
>I've been learning for two months and I know better than professional translators
Amazing Dunning-Kruger self-tell

>>280092901
I also somewhat doubt he's gotten proficient enough after two months to watch and understand even slice of life anime, but I guess it's not impossible. Just very unlikely.

>>280092837
Weird that reptile is spelled with hiragana instead of katakana.

>>280093021
it's usually a stylistic choice, hiragana seems softer than katakana

And when you move to Japan you vote for Sanseito. Total LDP death

>>280093021
i've been learning for around half a year and when i started learning kana it said "yeah hiragana is for pretty much everything, katakana is for foreign words basically"
and then i saw there's basically no fucking rules. one author uses katakana for onomatopeia, other uses hiragana, some words are in dddifferent kana than others evn though they're japanese words(probably to differentiate in asentence?), and so on so forth

>>280079822
get a better job

>>280093011
OP just said that it's watchable not that they understand literally everything

>>280079369
>people doing more than 20 new cards per day are freaks.
I used to do 30 a day, anon.

>>280080577
>Actually learning Japanese takes a long time with concerted, daily effort.
No, it's grinding your way to basic comprehension and then just spending time with the language.

>>280089556
Yes, it is.
SRS is largely useless, except for building base vocabulary and keeping the pressure on to do something every day.
Actual learning doesn't involving any SRS whatsoever. Read a book.

>>280090111
>Manga and light novels with furigana are an easy way to get into reading at first, but furigana easily becomes a crutch and an excuse to avoid looking at the kanji
Text with Furigana is more difficult to read, actually. It's similar to how you struggle to listen to Japanese with English subtitles.

>>280091511
Even though I do use that deck to practice a little listening, I would not recommend it as your main source.
The examples of every grammar forms are repetitive with very little variance, plus the sound clips are poor quality and random, probably lifted from immersionkit.com, so you might listen to some yakuza talking down to a subordinate then a loli screaming at the top of their lungs so retarded shit like "I don't want to die!".

>>280093748
>yakuza talking down to a subordinate then a loli screaming at the top of their lungs so retarded shit like "I don't want to die!".
I don't think this is a bad thing.

>>280080714
If you start learning the language you quickly realize that there is no way around them. Japanese absolutely requires Kanji, similar to how Korean does. Korean is a mess, precisely because they got rid of their Hanja.
Ironically, Chinese is a language that could function perfectly without Hanzi, as every Hanzi is a syllable and pinyin is so good, they basically use it exclusively.

>>280093748
>you might listen to some yakuza talking down to a subordinate
I am making an effort to primarily study Japanese using Yakuza film, so when I go I can sound like a cool guy.

>>280071067 (OP)
How do you get over the barrier of grammatical particles?

>>280093748
i went through that entire deck and the audio and the pictures and audio give some of the answers away, i.e. i know what the answer is before i read what's on the screen.
is this good or bad? i dunno.

>>280093915
you just learn them?
There's really not that many and it's not like other languages don't use particles. The only thing that is odd about Particles in Japanese is that they come after the world they apply to instead of predominantly appearing prior to them.

>>280093209
as long as you prioritize hiragana, that's the most important. it's significantly easier learning katakana after you're somewhat confident in hiragana anyway.
trying to do them both at the same time is probably the most important thing to avoid

>>280093872
>as every Hanzi is a syllable and pinyin is so good
You've got a lot of homophones, at least in standard Chinese with its 4/5 tones.

>>280093915
Feel them

>>280093839
I mean, I was talking about 2 entirely different cards.
There are probably 50 cards about protecting someone, or winning, or losing. Barely useful if you're not interested in battle manga adaptations.

The single most useful thing I found was that it explained -te shimau and its various colloquial abbreviations earlier than other grammar guides, but that's about it.

>>280079369
>people doing more than 20 new cards per day are freaks
I have three different decks and for fun I tried going from 10 to 30/day from each of them. I saw friends and people in djt talking about getting 100 new words every day and thought I could be like them. I think it's breaking me, killing my retention and wasting my time. I'm guessing anyone who pads their numbers like that is probably just doing it to sound hardcore on forums with twelve other schizos. FUCK current djt.

>>280093952
Eh, it's been a long time since I modified the template, and I wasn't a fan of all the add-ons you had to install, but my front looks like this. I remember removing some bits.

Probably not the best, since I have look away and not read to focus on the listening, but it kinda works for me to complement vocab and immersion.

>>280094068
I feel like it repeating certain aspects is not bad, it also explains a lot of other grammar points pretty well and very acessibly.
Also the idea of protecting or winning, those things appear in far more than just battle manga. You protect and win all sorts of things it doesn't have to be in a battlefield. They're often frequently used concepts.

>>280094269
Forgot pic.

>>280093982
i already know kana so it's allright anon
i actually found it pretty enjoyable to be able to read kana, it's like i now have a skill not many people have

>>280094202
>listening to anything anyone on /djt/ has to say
anon that general is literal schizoid central, what the fuck

>>280093985
If they have different tones, they're not homophones.
You do realize you can write tones in pinyin, right?

>>280092901
Retard
It doesn't matter how smart the professional translators are, they can't do the impossible.
English is not Japanese.
Why can't you understand something so simple?

Japanese sucks as a language, like all Asian languages.

>>280071067 (OP)
I will use AI to translate light novels and upload them without mentioning that fact.
And of course, I will not ever learn Japanese.

>>280086358
Dostedt

>>280089724
No, I mainly grinded manga with furigana at first and visual novels with text hookers after a few years, dumping new words into Anki using epwing2anki.
Of course I watched anime all the while and attempted to keep subtitles turned off as much as I could could, or downloaded some Japanese subs sometimes, but that was a minor part.
Don't grind premade Anki decks, that's a waste of time. Just get the bare minimum vocab from Genki and all the rest will come from reading.

>>280096757
A bad translation is better than no translation at all.

>>280093985
The whole point of pinyin is a system using latin letters that can represent ALL chinese phonemes tones. There still homophones, even in spoken Chinese, but written Chinese can handle it the same way.

>>280096494
Japanese is actually the only Asian language that works conceptually and isn't too distant from western language. It's why the Japanese were able to adopt western thought to begin with. Japanese even had a romance-style case indicator system historically, prior to dropping the case indicators.
The only real difference Japanese has from western languages has are SOV word order (some tenses in some western languages use it), the much wider use of help verbs and agglutimation.
The similarity in linguistic structure is likely why the Japanese managed to benefit so much from learning from Western sources, while the Chinese were left behind to get conquered by the Japanese.

Sapir-Whorf also likely plays a role here. Chinese is basically caveman speech.

I should have stopped being such a bitch and learned it years ago. It should have been the first thing I did after high school. I should have started during covid. I've had multiple opportunities come my way on the condition that I speak Japanese. I haven't been able to realize a single one, and now I'm playing catch-up. I know that the anxiety, pressure, and need to pass tests is only hampering my progress. It's painful to balance studying towards an exam and studying things you like. I wish I had the last five years back.

Please, anon. Start now. Don't end up like me. While you have the time, the freedom to learn through media, to work through hundreds of hours of entertaining reading material, to browse japanese-language web spheres, just do it. Get some JP subs, a basic vocab deck, mining tools, a kanji practice book, spend the small amount of money for the Genki text and workbook and enjoy the world that opens up for you

I want to practice speaking and production but I don't know any Japanese people, strangers are scary and VRC is disgusting. Is my only option to pay out the ass for a private tutor to give me a zoom call once a week?

>start reading yotsuba very slowly
>after a few volumes decide it's time for a change of pace
>a rec list has mayonaka heart tune listed as "very easy"
>one chapter in and i'm struggling to fuck, every single bubble is a drag
>look it up on natively cause i can't believe begginers consider this to be easy
>rating of 22
>lowest ifor manga is 10
>yotsuba is 16

fucking A, thanks.

>>280096358
I specifically mentioned the tones. You can have the same syllable with the same tone represent two different Hanzi. Maybe Cantonese or other variants with more tones don't have that problem but it very much exists in standard Chinese.

>>280097054
That's bullshit.

>>280099749
I sure wish there was something easy that wasn't fucking boring.
Shirokuma Cafe is easy and nice to listen to, but it is also boring as sin.

>>280099749
I've never read yotsuba but a friend of mine who's fluent says he never understood why people suggested it as a starter series.

>>280100465
Something is better than nothing. There isn't anything stopping somebody else from making a better translation after

>>280100473
i wish for 2 things
first, to know what is actually easy to read, i just, dunno, when i play a game i start on an easy stage and mayonaka is like someone put me in a 1v1 against a veteran. i just want the easy stuff first, i don't care if it's boring
and second is for a fucking readable furigana, what the fuck is up with these scanlations? i can understand yotsuba cause it's old, but mayonaka is like what, from fucking 2023?
i'll take a look at shirokuma though, thanks

>>280092901
Professional translators make a ton of mistakes and often don't particularly care about what they work on. This is something you'll observe in all languages, not just with Japanese.

>>280100514
A bad translation just shits on everything and retards will eat it up as if its the original. If no translation exists then only people that truly appreciate it will get it.

>>280071067 (OP)
Nobody wants to talk about the untranslated manga I'm reading because people here don't know about those.
I considered translating them myself (even with low-level Japanese) just so that they can have some visibility in the West.
Problem is they are not that popular in Japan either, so chances are even here the will to discuss them may be nonexistent.

>>280100494
it's much easier than mayonaka, at least for me
but i also heard it's not the best for the very first manga, maybe because of yotsuba's speech

>>280100565
>and second is for a fucking readable furigana, what the fuck is up with these scanlations?
What do you mean?
The thing with Yotsuba is that there's still no digital version of the volumes so all you have is paper scans, otherwise it's an ongoing series.

>>280100670
>Nobody wants to talk about the untranslated manga I'm reading because people here don't know about those.
Which magazine?

>>280100759
yeah this is much better quality than what i had

>>280099376
Sorry about your experience anon. Thank you for the advice

>>280100828
Did you try to read pirate versions? Those tend to be terrible. Always pay for digital manga.

>>280100579
>Professional translators make a ton of mistakes and often don't particularly care about what they work on.
This is not at all true, when you read more esteemed authors, with more esteemed translators. Oftentimes, especially when translating difficult material (lyrical text or distant languages), the translators will include an extensive foreword or afterword and often some measure of translation notes. Further, a lot of professional translation is not overly literal, because it often doesn't work.

To see what a highly skillful translation can look like, I recommend consulting the 1961 Walter Kaufmann translation of Faust.

>>280100998
Verstehen Sie Deutsch?

Interesting the only time /a/ defends translators it's when they're told to learn Japanese

>>280100624
You should form a secret society that prevents bad translations from appearing. Only those who proved themselves worthy can join.

>>280101093
Ausreichend um Faust zu lesen, ja.

>>280101178
We can gatekeep series and raws.

>>280101266
For the greater good!

>>280100945
>Always pay for digital manga
I agree with you anon, but I’m paying for it I might as well get it physical. But then dictionary lookup becomes harder

>passed jlpt1
>still can't speak Japanese because I'm too scared to talk or write in it
How do I get pass this? I can at least read and understand it but I fail when holding any kind of conversation.

>>280101564
Join servers/forums for language learners

>>280099749
Reading new things and moving on to more complex stuff is all good but you should actually reread and rewatch a lot of the material you've immersed with, especially after incorporating more vocabulary and grammar.
It's a drag, but you'll pick up more nuances you couldn't comprehend previously and notice how different writers "speak" differently and have their own mannerisms, something quite obvious but hard to observe as a beginner.

>>280101564
How the hell did you pass N1 without any practice speaking or writing? I don't think it tests on those but it's a common way to reinforce vocab and grammar. What were you doing to retain that much without utilizing it?
Your best bet is probably just to hire a private tutor for weekly calls and writing assignments. It'll get rid of the anxiety since their whole job is to help people like you, they know where you're at. That or you could just go to Japan and visit a bar. People are there to talk to each other and four beers or so will calm the nerves. That's where most of my speaking practice comes from.

>>280082972
40 minutes vs 4 hours of content.
I consistently like anime but consistently I only think like two or three shows are worth picking up a season.

>>280102301
You have decades of anime to immerse with, you don't have to watch the newest shows.

What do I do when I immerse and don’t understand a thing? Just keep going and pause at every new line to mine the subs?

>>280099749
PR OR THE ER

>>280102618
Just move on, and if nothing at all makes sense then maybe take a step back. If you find yourself looking up every single word and grammatical form in a sentence and then moving on and forgetting them the next time they come up, you might want to go back to some structured study.
In my opinion you should be able to recognize the function of most particles to identify what something is or is doing, simple sentence structures to know where to expect nouns, verbs, times, adjectives etc, and basic kanji/radicals to try and identify vocabulary. You need to be able to understand the clues in a sentence if you want to derive meaning (learn) from it

>>280102287
I mostly just did anki and reading for n1, I did have a gf one time but I don't really remember talking that much to her in jap. I'm also too introvert to go to bars or any meetup with more than 4 people.
Are tutors really worth it though? It feels like they cost a lot for empty conversations.

>>280100670
Could do one chapter teasers like some groups do?

>>280102618
That's a valid technique, but with immersion you have to learn to embrace ambiguity sometimes.
But if you literally don't understand a thing, and by that I mean, you don't know hiragana, can't read even the most basic of kanji like say 好き. You have no idea how Japanese grammar structure works, etc.
Basically if you don't have the fundementals and you're literally white-nosiing, then I wouldn't recommend it.
I do believe it is best done with these fundamentals at your disposal, if you have them, you have to embrace ambiguity, you will not know a shit ton of vocab for a long, long time, if you let that discourage you, it will mean you will immerse less, have less exposure to Japanese and that's far worse than being lost in an anime scene sometimes.
Looking up words in an anime is a good strategy, but I do believe you also need to just watch the content as it is and accept you won't know everything.
You will notice that you'll start realizing ow this language works, what certain words mean thanks to context (This is why anime particularly is so good for learning Japanese) the more you are exposed to it. This is why immersion is so good paired with Anki, you will realize that you gain the vocabulary far faster once you see those words from Anki in the wild.

>>280102618
Active language practice should be slightly, but not too much, above your current skill level.
Your brain will sort you out with time, but you need enough for it to make connections and you need to accept that the connections you make are wrong.
For example, for around 3 years I thought that "dick" was another way to say "ass", based on an errenious interpretation of the popular "dickbutt" image.

>>280079725
Learning runes doesn't further my goal of understand my waifu, so I won't learn them. I will keep copy pasting romanji in google translate and learning the meaning by sound.

Hiragana and Katakana are the only thing worth learning since they are technically just letters. Knowing them can help you read some stuff, but the biggest benefit is learning to understand how Japanese words are formed, for which you don't even need to learn them fully, you just need to understand the system so you can pick them in romanji from speech.

>>280102907
That is remarkable. How long did it take you just grinding anki and VNs?
It really depends on the individual tutor - some of them will work with you to organize a conversation about something you want to discuss and improve on areas you're lacking in your writing or speaking. Good ones will have good reviews mentioning this and give you the opportunity to explain what you're looking for. Others will just charge you a lot of money to speak to you like a toddler and read from a generic script. Considering your level most of the tutors working with N2+ are usually decent ones. The shitters tend to prey on dekinai. It won't be super cheap but it seems like your only option. At any rate it will help you get used to talking to people

>>280103096
Kek. That happened to me a lot when I was playing games as a kid, I remember playing MGS1 when Meryl said something like "I..I wanted to see you again" and as a kid I was confused, because I thought "wanted" just meant someone who's being chased by cops or broke a law. So I thought that maybe she was worried Snake will get arrested after the mission or something.
I expect to run into same things with Japanese, English sorted itself out, so Japan will too, it'll be ok.

>>280102618
Japanese vtubers with chat/LiveTL translations)

>>280102618
Just don't white noise. Instead try to find things that correspond to your current level or slightly above and focus on one or two grammar points per session. For example, if you're studying passive voice, try to recognize when it's being used and dissect those dialogues. Then rewatch when you're focusing on a different grammar structure. You'll slowly solidify the stuff you picked up about passive voice.

Your brain will get tired if you're trying to pick up too many new things all at once, and you won't retain much of anything. Even if you spend 5 minutes understanding some phrase and think to yourself "Okay, got it", and then move on to something entirely different, it's just not going to stick. That's too little time, and too little repetition.

>>280072978
translating to English takes up more brainpower and is tiring

>>280072978
>when you're translating you're always doing localizations in your head.
No, you don't. It's the best way to never learn a language.

>>280100759
How did you save it from your bought copies? Bookwalker doesnt let me do shit

I'm did it for her, but I'm oldguard.

>>280071067 (OP)
But I’m lazy.

Wow, thank you anons! Your generous advice has been very helpful
>>280102890
>You need to be able to understand the clues in a sentence if you want to derive meaning from it
Yeah I think this is where I’m currently at. I know kana and some basic vocab from kaishi 1.5k (only been grinding it for a week though) but kanji is still filtering me hard. Been using Tae Kim for grammar but only fairly recently. So I can recognize some particles but miss most of the structure.

>>280103030
>you have to learn to embrace ambiguity sometimes
You’re right anon. Perhaps my trying to understand everything with a dictionary is what’s working against me desu

>>280103096
>You need to accept that the connections you make are wrong
You’re probably right. I’m probably closer to white-noising than I want to admit, but at least I’m not completely lost on hiragana. The dickbutt example is actually reassuring kek

>>280103385
>focus on one or two grammar points per session
This makes sense for where I am anon, thank you. Maybe I should stick to recognizing basic は/を/が patterns for now instead of trying to parse everything.

Quick question for you kind anons: should I maybe watch kids anime instead, like Precure or something with simpler language? Or should I go back and strengthen my foundations first?

>>280105150
Ffuck Reddit spacing, messed up

>>280105150
Your foundation isn't there yet, it seems. Focus on that.
Check out Shirokuma Cafe, it's pretty much made for learners.

>>280099376
Playing catch-up to who?

>>280104239
Respectable taste. I played the fansub nearly a decade ago, but I'd like to reread the whole trilogy in Japanese eventually if I can ever find the time.

How do I start?

>>280106999
Buy genki, google djt guide, install anki

>>280106999
>How do I start?
>>280071417
https://djtguide.github.io/

>>280071067 (OP)
I hate japan though

I've been working through the Core 2K deck with 100 reviews a day and 5 new words a day. This takes me about 10-15 minutes a day. I also use Kanji Study to review kanji and help cement them, with reviews recently taking over 100 a day and 5 new kanji a day. This takes me about 15-20 minutes a day. As a bonus, this helps practice katakana. Then I practice immersion intermittently whenever I come across an untranslated hentai and read the Japanese raws instead. I also follow a lot of JP artists on Twitter, so I use their tweets as reading practice. I've been doing this everyday since the beginning of this year.

>>280104207
>How did you save it from your bought copies? Bookwalker doesnt let me do shit
Bookwalker is kinda shitty to rip from, the only thing that really works is scripts, but you have to go through the entire volume to get them to work and bookwalker loads really, really slowly.
In general if you can rip elsewhere, that's probably easier. But bookwalker has some subscription and free stuff and sales that makes it just cheaper to use from time to time. I mostly use kobo myself, but they're making it harder to rip from there as well now.

>>280071067 (OP)
I highly recommend people don't learn Japanese.

I waste so many hours ever day reading a never ending stream of mostly isekai manga.

>>280109206
could be worse, you could have learned Chinese

>>280101362
>but I’m paying for it I might as well get it physical
shipping is expensive for physical manga and the quality is worse
I buy physical versions of the stuff I scanlate, but I mainly read them digitally anyway
it's just fun to have physical versions some times

>>280109223
Why would knowing Chinese be worse? They have no media I would want to consume.

>>280109206
You would be doing the same thing with a shitty TL instead if you hadn't learned it

>>280071067 (OP)
>avoid Duolingo
man I miss when Duolingo wasn't filled with AI shit and P2P garbage.
>Oh you want to make more than five mistakes today? Fuck you, subscribe or KYS

If this doesn't already exist I wonder if it would be possible to create a flow chart of anime immersion material that shows what to watch in order to efficiently build up to more niche interests.
So if you start from Shirokuma Cafe what shows would you need to watch to understand Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

>>280109862
I've been wondering if there's something like koohi.cafe but with a much larger list of vocabulary libraries. The site will let you import anki/wanikani progress and tell you how many new words a given work will have. Its available library of media is really small though.
There's also the problem of comprehensibility, like what forms of speech are there and how frequently certain easy or difficult sentence structures are used, but that's tough to measure. A large community of learners could suffer through them all and manually rank them I guess, and build a progression from that

I love studying Japanese. There are so many ways of doing it that I never get bored, I see genuine improvement, and it helps me out daily. Best of all it's a convenient way for me to procrastinate doing literally anything else. Don't feel like doing the dishes? That's fine, I needed to mine vocab from this youtube video anyways. Can't be arsed to do the laundry, at least not until I'm done with this anki deck. I'll worry about my job as soon as I nail down this kanji. Can't go out to some dumb shit tonight, I have practice tests and readings to do.

Social obligations, work, chores - I can put them all off now, which I would anyways, and remain guilt-free. They're all less important than my studies. All I need to do is shower, brush my teeth, eat breakfast and choose which Japanese material I want to engage with today.

>>280086472
Portuguese
>>280087653
True, can’t hold conversation if I can’t understand natives and natives can’t understand me.
>>280088101
Loads of anime for over two decades, avoid dub like the plague. Sometimes I watched some Japanese show for toddlers, only thing I could understand most of it. Occasional Japanese website exploring for around the same time, checking artists, getting art and hentai, I found Akihito Tsukushi’s website way before he made Made in Abyss. 99% of porn consumption is hentai, can understand the general context in doujinshi but not proper conversation. Can navigate well in supermarkets, can check labels for sugar, carbs, protein, fat, fiber, etc. don’t really know how to pronounce or write any of that besides タンパク.

>>280110840
Maybe because Japanese is so much further away from Portuguese than English is that it requires more effort?
What would you say your daily average for watching untranslated Anime is? 3 episodes? 7? 12?

>>280071067 (OP)
I originally set aside learning of Japanese until I got better at art. I'd describe myself as someone with a magical learning ability, but I also get frustrated over the slightest things and am extremely lazy so going through a few flashcards became too much. But this thread almost makes me want to start learning again. I had switched to this nice site called JPDB that has decks to teach you all the words in any given anime or light novel (including some Japanese learning books as good starter decks). All I really need to do is fill my head with vocabulary now because I had become decent enough with grammar. Just learn enough to read one simple manga, and it is pretty much over and will snowball from there. The idea invigors me so much, kanji are also pretty fun and simple to learn. I legitimately enjoy learning a filling my head as much as possible. I also envision learning many other simpler languages after getting a good foothold on Japanese. I need to stop being lazy.

>>280110840
Have you tried studying at all? It's insane that you could be there for so long and learn nothing. I was N3 and conversational after one year and I mostly just did some flashcards, genki exercises and asked people what things meant.
>can’t hold conversation if I can’t understand natives and natives can’t understand me.
Many locals speak at least a little English, you can start there

>>280104207
That's from Comic Days and technically not not bought but subscribed.
I ripped it via Hakuneko.

For lack of a better place to discuss it, who does /a/ back between senko and mylenescans?

>>280086479
>I think there is generally an expectation that someone studying a second language as an adult would pick it up faster than someone acquiring it for the first time.
Where do you get this sentiment from? Sayings like "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" exists because their way of living is already set. Being in the body of a child is essentially treated as being reborn in the truest sense as they have regained childish qualities that motivates the protag to change.

Not to mention the plasticity of children surpasses every other stage of a human lifespan.

>>280112371
I just meant that it's faster not that's it's easier.

>>280112064
Neither.

>>280112465
Babies become fluent way faster

>>280112465
Children have an easier time picking up things around them, adults have an easier time actively learning.

Learning Japanese is a lifetime, it ain't gonna happen in a week.

>>280112371
>>280113705
>>280113740
Man I'm glad I learned the kana and spend my teens watching anime.

>>280112465
While it takes time to keep their attention for the basics like the alphabet; fundamentally if they don't pick up on things as a kid they have a very hard time as an adult since they have to start at the same starting point without the benefits of having super sensitive neurons. Not to say it is impossible especially if more then one language is learned but it will be way harder.

>>280113852
>Not to say it is impossible especially if more then one language is learned but it will be way harder.
That's not true. As an adult you have a far better understanding of how languages actually work and an easier time grasping complex and abstract concepts.

>>280114043
> an easier time grasping complex and abstract concepts.
You already figured it out as a pre-teen. Being an adult is only a benefit of experience.

Does anyone practice their writing? I used to write hiragana and hiragana but after i starter learning kanji i just couldnt be bothered when i can just type through my keyboard

>>280114471
I don't because I never ever need to write, I only use Japanese to read and listen not to visit japan, work there, or impress other people.. But if you would study it I'm sure it would help with reading faster for example. If you're like me though the amount of time required just isn't worth it and you're better off just reading more.

>>280114471
i "practice" by using ringotan, i don't think it's built well though. i just do it for sport.

>>280089188
After 10 years I would assume that he can piece together what is going on from the moving pictures even if there's one word he doesn't know, but he still wants to look it up in a dictionary because he wants to learn it

>>280088886
>Hating localization is a mid wit take
Nope
>real Japanese maestros appreciate good localizations
This is true, but not for the reason you think.
>>280089099
It doesn't matter how """good""" a localization is, it's still a localization. It's not the original Japanese.
A weebshit literal translation allows experienced weebs who grew up reading TL notes from weeb fan translators to reconstruction most of the intent of the original.
As I mastered Japanese, I developed an appreciation for localization, but that's only because I have the luxury of being able to experience the original regardless of the localization destroying it.

>>280104239
Doing it for 2nd worst girl is something but since it was for muvluv i respect this

>>280092104
You're living in a bubble.
Whenever you want to check what real Japanese looks like, look no further than Xitter: https://x.com/search?q="かわいい"

>>280100998
Esteemed translators don't work on fucking anime.

>>280115053
>A weebshit literal translation allows experienced weebs who grew up reading TL notes from weeb fan translators to reconstruction most of the intent of the original.
Not really. They obsess about certain aspects like honorifics to the point of making them up when none exist but ignore a lot of other aspects of the language, even basic things like pronouns. It's a cargo cult translation at this point. The ones producing it no longer even know Japanese themselves, they just recreate what they've seen elsewhere.

>>280089099
>They'd rather have literal translations
>where the point gets lost in translation
this doesn't happen

>>280100565
>i just want the easy stuff first, i don't care if it's boring
That's a pussy mentality.
The first manga I read raw was a sci-fi fantasy philosophical mindbend called Murasakiiro no Qualia. It took me a week to read a single chapter but it was SO. MUCH. FUN.
I actually cared about learning every single word, rather than being forced to learn it by Anki whipping me.

>>280115179
Holy projection

>>280102618
>subs
Anime is the wrong medium to do extensive mining above your level in.
Pausing ruins the timing, and with it your enjoyment of the show.
Do it with manga.

>>280103385
>Your brain will get tired if you're trying to pick up too many new things all at once, and you won't retain much of anything. Even if you spend 5 minutes understanding some phrase and think to yourself "Okay, got it", and then move on to something entirely different, it's just not going to stick. That's too little time, and too little repetition.
Ever heard of a little program called Anki?

>>280114471
I practice writing every new kanji and word. It takes time but I've always been the type to learn best by taking notes. You get the hang of stroke order pretty quickly.

>>280115361
Anki? An kian't believe i fucked you're mom lmao

>>280114471
When I learn/practice words on Anki I have a different deck in which I add kanji of the words that give me the most trouble or that I often mixup. Not for the sake of learning the kanji itself in a vacuum but for the sake of learning the word.
For me, it helps

>>280114471
When I learned Chinese I wrote all the vocabulary by hand on a tablet and used OCR to double check. It takes time but you think more about the radicals and stroke order witch helps when reading handwriting.

I'm sick of reading a fun manga and then suddenly the scanlations contain
>shitty quality scans
>watermarked pages every other page
>blatant spelling mistakes and english not speak good language has too many strenght
and I drop it.
I will try to learn japanese

>>280115179
It's not perfect, of course, but localization is just giving up.

I remember when DJT was on /a/ and got a lot of attention, helping a ton of people learn Japanese. Then it got moved to /jp/ where it was forgotten, and now people have to make threads like these to hide from the jannies. What a life-ruining change.

>>280111306
>Maybe because Japanese is so much further away from Portuguese than English is that it requires more effort?
That is a factor, looking up an English word on the dictionary is easy since it uses the same characters than Portuguese but some random kanji in a more artistic font can’t be decoded without already knowing what it is to begin with. Another one is that I got way less free time than when I was a kid and more things to distract myself.
>>280111886
Have you ever seen some chinese, korean, whatever immigrant grandpa or grandma who lived in USA of whatever country you are for 30, 40, 50 years and still don’t talk the local language or speak it poorly? That can happen in Japan too, in fact I met a woman who have been in Japan for 30 years and is even worse than me. I learned enough to do all the things I need on my daily life so my language skills just stagnated, just need a handful of words to buy thing in the supermarket, order some food or ask the price of things.
I did had some Japanese classes but an issue with most language classes is that they focus too much on grammar and conversation that only exist in textbooks. I can read the kanji for pork, beef, chicken and that can be helpful in the supermarket, I can read the kanji for Morita or Tanaka, Tokyo or Hokkaido but none of this is relevant in a conversation, my vocabulary is too disconnected so when I’m exposed to a normal conversation usually I don’t understand enough words to piece together the meaning and being unable to talk means I don’t get exposed naturally to new words or learning new words from context (doesn’t helps that Japanese casual language omit many words). I learned English in a more natural way, people most people I know who tried to learn in language schools never went anywhere probably for similar reasons as me with Japanese now. Also many Japanese people know some English in Tokyo and touristic areas, not so much outside those areas.

>>280115263
Nah, he's right. Weebs really overestimate how much they know about Japanese. Most of them couldn't even tell you it's a SOV language instead of SVO. It shouldn't really be controversial; it's not a language they know. If you asked them to say a sentence they couldn't. If you asked them to live translate speech from anime they couldn't. All they can identify is some basic words and honorifics if they're stated in isolation. I have no idea why they get so arrogant as to suddenly think they're super familiar with the language. It demonstrates arrogance and a lack of self-testing, I think. All it would take is trying to listen to anime without subs (beyond an eating scene where everyone is saying OISHIII) and they'd quickly realize they don't know shit.

>>280116396
DJT was a shithole that wasn't about anime or manga or learning Japanese. Generals should be banned because they foster shitposting.
The only useful thing about DJT was the guide and link collection and you don't need a thread for that.

>>280071067 (OP)
I can understand most of it but I can't read it for shit.

>>280116506
It was a great place. In 2012 that is. In the past 10 years I've never seen a language learning culture as focused and informed in their methods. It didn't even really have samefags or anything, since people left as they got good and could stand on their own feet.

The guides and links were the most useful, but it's obvious having a thread constantly hitting the front page with those links and a place to ask questions about them is better than the links existing nebulously on the internet with most never seeing them.

>>280115259
cool but i didn't ask for your blog experience

>>280116517
Not likely. Japanese is a heavily text-influenced language due to the number of homophones, and just their love of kanji in general. You'd be like a fish out of water constantly. Most people who claim to understand most of it but not being able to read actually mean they guess based on the pictures in anime and have little real language knowledge.

>>280116467
>Most of them couldn't even tell you it's a SOV language instead of SVO
Most people don't even know that about their own language because it's not relevant to speak it.
Didn't read the rest, I'm not interested in your fight with "them weebs"

>>280117190
I learned about SVO in literally elementary school. Anyone not familiar with this is a literal uneducated retard, which may mean you in this case. And, furthermore, even those who didn't know would know if you said "where is the verb placed in the average sentence," while a weeb would only be able to guess since they have no idea, a Japanese speaker would know.

>>280117190
>Most people don't even know that about their own language because it's not relevant to speak it.
when it comes to english, a lot of esl's speak better english than than a lot of natives.
i regularly meet people who use words the have no fucking idea what they mean

>>280116577
>but it's obvious having a thread constantly hitting the front page
A sticky serves that purpose far better than a thread bickering about what image to use or how some minor difference in a guide is far superior.

whats the most Redpilled high IQ thinking way that doesnt involve the obvious normie stuff or tenuous anki atrocity (unironically)

>>280117293
Sure, but I don't see a sticky on /a/ with the links, so I work with what's reasonable. And bickering is precisely what led to the resources being so optimized, I can hardly look down on it.

>>280117381
What the absolute fuck are you talking about? Language learning is hard but not that complicated. Either do flashcards or expose yourself to massive amounts of the source language (i.e. comprehensible input). There's nothing else.

Just started reading Kawabata's たんぽぽ

>>280117293
are you implying a sticky wouldn't have bickering about what's in the op? if anything, there'd be much more bickering about mods being fags or whatever

>>280117560
good on you anon, good luck

>>280112064
I'd never be on the side of a for profit group like mylenescans.

>>280117564
A sticky would be closed for replies.

>>280117864
fair enough, but then i'm sure there'd be anons who'd shit up the boards with their inane "teh sticky suxxx" threads
still better than /djt/

>>280117876
It could also solve the shit with the buyfag threads linking a guide in the first reply.
Many other boards have fixed stickies so there's no reason why /a/ can't have one. Might also scare off some of the newcomers and crossboarders posting rec threads.

Honestly, "occasional japanese thread" is the best solution for right now. This thread is pretty good.

>>280117971
Why don't more people post threads about manga in Japanese?
Even when raws are posted it's largely EOPs looking for spoilers.

>>280118015
threads about translated manga don't even survive on this board unless the series is already widely popular
the chances of a thread about an untranslated manga surviving is below 0%

>>280117145
This, I understand Japanese and care read the Kana and memorized some Kanji when I read manga and VNs. I would never imagine to even start understanding the language without first learning kana and how the writing system are structured, without it the sentences felt like gibberish.

>>280118015
There simply aren't that many anons that speak japanese here. There's a narrow window where you can read well enough for raw manga but aren't literate enough to engage with the japanese internet.

>>280118182
I engage with the Japanese internet to some degree (like having JP friends on twitter, or watching some vids on niconico, blah blah) but it's not quite as trivial as you may imagine. They fucking hate foreigners and do everything they can to stop people from posting. Even VPNs are targeted to the best of their ability, so often I'll find myself unable to like post on 5ch or what have you, or blocked from basic websites they're using, etc. It's really annoying, so I trend to just staying on English sites. I'm not so socially inept as to post in JP communities when they clearly don't want me there. English internet is way more comfy.

>>280118228
>They fucking hate foreigners
this. kek. like, if you're brown and don't speak japanese there (online and offline) they don't even consider you human

>>280118228
4chan could learn a thing or two from them.

How much anime do you immerse with every day guys? My top-record thus far is 12 episodes a day, I hit 9-11 episodes consistently every day thus far.

>>280118431
>How much anime
I don't, VN master race

>>280118440
Everything's valid as long as it hooks you and it's in Japanese without being translated I think, I love anime so it's natural.

>>280118450
do you at least watch with Japanese subtitles on?

>>280118459
I do yeah.

>>280118465
good! you will make it

>>280118465
Where do you find JP subtitles? I've tried looking for that before but it feels impossible?

>>280118512
https://jimaku.cc/
And if all else fails, this is the absolute last resort, the transcription technology AI has gone very far, though I'll understand if for some people this is a big no-no.
https://huggingface.co/spaces/Nick088/Fast-Subtitle-Maker

>>280117929
sure anon, i agree

>>280118431
1 episode, that's all i have time for

>>280118531
Thank you anon! This is exactly what I've been looking for.

>>280118431
Bad slump 0-3
Normal Slump 6
Average 9
Goal 12
Record 20

>>280072583
>tabun - probably
>soredemo - nevertheless, even so
>ohisashiburi - long time no see
>misete morau - show me
>zettai - absolutely
I mean, you hear it so often in jap fiction that i tend to remember those expressions

>>280118228
The Japanese internet is fairly disappointing when it comes to manga. On 5ch I get most mileage out of the 4koma board, the rest is either dead or filled with series/magazines I don't read.

>>280118431
My record is 42, usually I watch 6 episodes per day.
I did do prolonged periods with 16+ episodes per day.

>>280118431
Like 6 episodes every day thus far.
It's a little hard getting used to binging shows, it was something I was always againts when I watched shows normally, I ahd a rule of max 3 episodes when I watched anime with subtitles. That now changed, it's getting easier and easier to consume several episodes, I still have to take breaks in-between, because at some point I want to do something else or rest up so I can actually focus.
I tend to watch Japanese podcasts when I am resting in-between.

>>280117560
Is it easy to find online? Kawabata seems kind of daunting.
The first novel of actual literature I had planned reading was Botchan, but I just decided to read The Girl who Leapt time based on Natively's ratings.

>>280118919
their discussion boards seem kind of useless, they have no real discussion or interaction, it looks mostly like they're just posting reactions
so I don't really think you're missing out on a lot

>>280119436
I wish there was something like 4chan in Japanese.

>>280119543
2chan?

>>280119561
It's not the same, there isn't even a dedicated anime&manga board.

>>280113705
>Babies become fluent way faster
it only takes them 5 years

>>280119675
do what? there's no /a/ on futaba? is there a list of what they have?

>>280119675
>>280119750
anime is seen as uncool in Japan
Disney movies are more respected

>>280119792
you're having me had anon

I already speak Greek,Romanian and advanced English,they say the more languages you know the easier to is for your brains to learn new languages,I should give it a try and find a way to exploit the Japanophilia that is trendy these days,I don't plan to move to Japan because am not a retard blinded by anime

>>280119829
>because am not a retard blinded by anime
I became a retard and life got better

>>280119750
www.2chan.net/
They have a dozen 二次元裏 boards which is more or less Anime/Random.

>>280119829
better to focus on one language than on multiple
it is better to be a master of one than at none

>>280119829
korean is what's trendy right now, I believe. no reason to learn japanese if you don't actually like japanese stuff.

>>280119951
>better to focus on one language than on multiple
ehhh am not trying to be a teacher, it's something I would do because am NEETing currently and time is all I have.The easiest languages I could learn right now are russian and any other Latin based,I self taught myself Romanian since it's my mother language,once I got the hang of English it came quite easily.Russian also has the Greek alphabet and many common Romanian words

>>280080297
Immersion learning, my nigga

>>280119963
the main reason people started learning Japanese in the first place was because of anime, manga, and vidya games
not because they were particularly interested in Japan and Japanese culture
that came along the way more or less

I started noticing how shitty the localization of even the titles are, I much prefer 中二病でも恋がしたい! ! over whatever the title "Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions! is suppsoed to be.

>>280119963
Chinese too

>>280071067 (OP)
No point anymore when chatgpt and claude get the job done.

>>280122103
You shouldn't translate titles for accuracy but for marketability

>>280118356
so just like this shithole then

>>280071067 (OP)
I'm watching anime, not reading poetry. The most important part should be the substance, not the actual dialogue

>>280122212
What kind of cope is this.

>>280122231
you're not gonna find milton in Friends

>>280122282
Yeah, but even nuance gets lost when Friends gets translated to different languages that aren't its originally written script and you get a different worse experience. No one calls anime poetry, just the simple fact that you are always watching vision somehow meddled with/changed, including its substance if you don't watch it the way it was truly intended to be watch, without anyone's translations but as rawly as possible. A foreigner watching friends with like French subtitles will still have wildly different experience.

>>280122341
Well, I just simply don't care that much about the dialogue, nor when it comes to film

>>280122392
Anime is rarely show don't tell medium, even when the show says plenty with its visuals it still heavily relays on its dialogue, you can do you of course. No one's forcing you, this is for people who want to appreaciate anime in its purest form.

>>280116378
There's two kinds of localization. Either you just use it as an excuse to hide your own deficits or you take extra effort to produce something that's actual prose in the target language while retaining the information conveyed in the original. The latter is beyond what most translators are capable of.

>>280122173
you can tell by how so terrible a lot of the unofficial literal translations of the titles are over at mangadex
like people get used to them, but they're still pretty terrible. doesn't exactly market itself as something you'd want to read

>>280122606
I think the perfect thing to do is to just make some kind of acronym/shortening that still implies the original title without localizing it to the point it gives off different feel, Watamote, Konosuba etc.

>>280122690
I've noticed that when I post releases to plebbit, it gets a lot more attention when I use an English title (even if it's a lame unofficial title) than when I use romaji. Most likely because a lot of the romaji just don't mean anything to the the people who don't know Japanese unless they recognize the title.
Now I post all my releases with the English titles. I guess I shouldn't have been so surrpised, but there is a pretty big difference.

>>280118650
You can use mpv to display jap and english subs at the same time, I personally find it more effective for language learning

>>280122945
I think you should let go off subtitles completely, I don't think this counts as immersion, especially considering that subs are rarely 1:1 (they physically can't be due to how different the languages are).

>>280123141
I mean English subtitles specifically, Japanese subs are better than no JP subs.

>>280071067 (OP)
how bout no

>>280122945
Just read something for reading and only watch anime for listening

>>280122890
Unfortunately it's also creeping into /a/. And those English titles are so bad, you can't even identify what series it is without looking it up. And then you have retards that abbreviate the badly translated titles so somebody only familiar with the Japanese version has no idea what they're talking about.

For me, grammar is the great filter
I just can't understand it. Moreover, theres like 3 big ass dictionaries just for grammar terms, I can't possibly learn all this shit while learning kanji and vocab

>>280123424
Best thing I ever learned from Real Real Japan:
>NOT WHY… MEMORIZE!!!
Kek

>>280071067 (OP)
im already reading VNs, im also about to start to start Persona5 in japanese to see how much i get beatdown by common japanese

Btw has/is anyone watching fairy tail with jap subs? i recently the show got into my head i remembered i only got up the magical tournament when it was airing years ago and never finished it
I remember being comfy and hot

>>280123424
your brain is designed to understand grammar

>>280119247
>Is it easy to find online?
I bought it on Amazon. I remember trying to find versions of more popular books like Snow Country and giving up after a while back then.

>>280124770
incorrect
I don't know any grammar be it in my native language or english or japanese
I just feel it out

>>280124882
You have to know grammar in English if we're having this conversation, you just constructed that sentence, you know grammar.

>I will never develop a perfect pitch
Why even try

>>280125013
Good question. I'm not sure why autists get so uppity about it. We have inflections and emphasis in english too and you learn them fine from speaking practice. Anything beyond that is a pointless effort only to impress people online to aid in your scam or maybe fool a blind person into thinking you're actually Japanese

>>280124912
NTA but for me it is like walking. I didn’t learn the name of every muscle in my body and then how they are used before learning how to walk. I do use said muscles to walk but I don’t know their names nor the sequence and timing to use them, I just learned to walk and now I can do it without thinking.

>>280125152
That's how everyone is, therefore, you know grammar. It'll be the same with Japan if you'll be studying it and most importantly immersing with it long enough.

>>280124882
>I don't know any grammar be it in my native language or english or japanese
you clearly do, you are using it right now.

>>280125013
it's really not that hard, it's just practice and mimicking people.

>>280124469
This is a great tip and I think it applies to almost every language in the world, English itself also has a lot of incosistent rules which we don't think about all that much.

>>280125187
Yeah but there is a difference between using grammar intuitively and studying it analytically. Try walking while thinking on every single muscle at the moment it contract.

>>280125538
You don't remember but that's what it was like the first time you walked. Then you kept doing it for years and stopped thinking about it. Experienced guitarists don't think about where to put their fingers to play the next chord, soccer players don't think about which angle to hit the ball at, and in time you'll stop worrying about how you attach a given helping verb

You both will never agree. Stop

>>280124876
Here's a retail copy of Snow country in Japanese if you're interested (AZW3)
>https://files.catbox.moe/i5vgnn.azw3

>>280126004
I appreciate the gesture although I have a physical version already.
I had trouble finding a copy years ago but maybe I didn't look hard enough. Did you find this one on a specific website or bought it?

>>280126177
Got it from a private tracker that rhymes with realpolitik

>>280126177
Private tracker

>>280118228
>I'm not so socially inept as to post in JP communities when they clearly don't want me there.
They're actually cool with foreigners, in moderate quantities.
Only corpos really don't want gaijins because they cause paperwork troubles.

Come to https://discord,gg/hutabamay-bi-nan-suo-1247170637290803272 if you want to chat with japanons. It's a discord server created as a bunker of sorts for people to retreat into while Futaba was being trollspammed by the force of a thousand Accelerators, but it developed a stable population.
Many gaijin Futaba lurkers found it, tried joining to finally be able to talk to japanons unrestricted by IP blocks, and were welcomed will open arms.
Everyone is encouraged to change their server-specific nickname into としあき (Anonymous) to keep the spirit of anonymity.

>>280119750
The closest they have are "may" and "img".
May is the main board for live anime discussion. Popular anime will have up to 3000 posts within a few hours of the episode's airing, and if it has Gundam in its name, it will have 20000 posts.
Img is the slower board for anons to chat and have fun. They host a lot of fanfiction and quests but also just miscellaneous anime discussion. No images are allowed on this board.
But both of those are closer to the "shitposting" side of the scale. Actual discussion happens on 5ch.

>>280126177
it's on animebytes too I see, as epub though

>>280127780
thanks anon, good to know

Do you guys believe in AJAAT, and by AJAAT I mean in the acutal definition of the word AJAAT, the ones that demand like 12-15 hours of immersion a day.
I find it a little doubtful, I do believe you need a lot of hours, every day but I think they might be going a little much into extreme territories with heavy emphasis on passive immersion. I don't think it's inherently wrong but I think you should focus on active immersion, if you do enough of active immersion I don't think passive immersion is something you need that badly, thoughts?

I like how encouraging you're, sure good stuff takes time, keep it up

>>280119750
Some of them

- Place to escape
- Nintendo
- Yaoi& bara&yuri&cross dressing
- Artficial intelligence
-3DCG
-Covid-19
-Travelling & Child raising & Cooking
- Baseball
- Cat& insects

Yes they do care about life, though I am curious what do they have in yaoi section, I guess attractive Japanese style drawings? can't know unless I have jp IP

>>280071067 (OP)
I started learning Japanese in 2017 and I still can't understand what they're saying in anime.

>>280129131
more hours is obviously always better but passive immersion is a stupid meme
basically the equivalent of listening to audiobooks while you're sleeping

>>280079725
>There is a reason even the natives don't know their own writing system and use romanji as a crutch
Do you know what romanji is? It's not the same as hiragana.

>japs also hate my kind (indians)
Sad

>>280129781
>There is a reason even the natives don't know their own writing system and use romanji as a crutch
It's called hiragana, and you watched a youtube video with some faggot asking randoms on the street to write quite complex kanji (that they might still recognize, just not write). It's not different than asking some random on the street the meaning of Jentacular

>>280129131
no for the love of god don't listen to that tatsumoto guy
it's basically escapism through Japanese
it's completely autistic hermit mode closing off everything else
don't do something like that, it's not healthy at all and it's honestly most likely trolling

>>280129700
Time to try another learning approach, anon. Go listen to Pimsleur audio lessons to train your ears and pronounciation.

>>280129700
How have you been learning? If you combine anki, get some beginner decks like Kaishi 1.5, start immersing you should see the results.
Probably faster in your rate if you truly been studying.

>>280129615
>can't know unless I have jp IP
you can read, you just can't post

I would be willing to learn Japanese romaji, but moon runes are too much for me.

>>280130638
there is no point in "just reading", anon
shitposting is crucial to language learning

>>280071067 (OP)

>>280125663
>classical musician here and nta
Not to be a pedantic autistic retard, but experienced players do in fact have to think about where they put their fingers. Yes, it's elevated to another level of conception (notes, then phrasing) but you cannot do it mindlessly, it takes genuine sustained focus. Then again, I'm not a fucking child prodigy genius who's been playing since before I could ride a bicycle, maybe it's like that for those freaks, but still, it's not like walking at all. It's like some separate third thing between absolute pinpoint focus and mindless walking, closer to absolute focus.

I would say I agree with your general point though that language is much easier than that anon is making it out to be, though. The synthesis of analytical and natural abilities, and one's aptitude for them is the key to mastering any skill.

Found that vtubers was the best way to reinforce my learning. It was especially effective when they were playing a game that I more or less knew by heart. Most of the popular ones are pretty dumb and use basic Japanese, so it didn't take much to understand most of what they were saying. Watching anime without subs didn't do it for me because I wanted to actually understand what was happening and it just ruined the experience.

>>280130783
it'd be pretty worthless just knowing romaji

>>280134719
Theoretically it might be possible to learn only the spoken language (even though reading is great for vocab) but while I can understand kanji being intimidating I don't get why learning kana is a problem.

Go to a Japanese class. Doing Anki from the beginning is harmful. And try to speak out loud when you doing anki.

trying to get some reading material as N4 - mostly manga, but it seems like every torrent on nyaa is basically dead for raw manga
whats the best place to get stuff in the raw form?

>>280135663
An easy place is manga-zip (dot) info

>>280135663
bookwalker, kobo, amazon

I'm a native Spanish speaker (the correct Spanish), I think I'm fairly fluent in English, I learned some French in highschool (I should probably take some classes) and I understand some basic Japanese words and expressions. That's it.

>>280136220
>I'm a native Spanish speaker (the correct Spanish)
based fellow Argentinian

>>280125663
Not really, a chicken don’t know about muscles to walk. There are other portions of the brain dedicated to these tasks (motor, speech, etc) conscious function is not necessary for these to work (sleep walking, sleep talking) conscious thought is much slower and can’t handle the massive amounts of information these systems handle on a daily basis.

>>280136981
you have areas in your brain directly responsible for learning languages
people learn languages long well into their advanced years
it has always been necessary for humans to learn other languages
that your mind isn't able to learn new lanuages is bullocks

>>280137653
>that your mind isn't able to learn new lanuages is bullocks
Neuroplasticity debunks this. This is the reason I gave up upon drawing after some /ic/ threads

>>280133567
fuckin vtumor

>>280136981
>>280138311
The point is that what starts off as conscious effort will eventually become routine function. If you can build a habit you can build a skill over time. Yes, it is more difficult for you to babble your way into a language now than it was when you were a toddler. There are a myriad of reasons why, which go beyond neuroplasticity - people are more tolerant of a 3 year old fucking up than they are a 30 year old, you could get positive feedback for any attempt, you had literally nothing else to do or even think about, your brain was constantly piecing everything together, learning and forming habits was your natural state of being.
You can replicate some of these as an adult. Some of them you just have to live with. But you have tools you never could have imagined at that age, a wealth of resources you're capable of consuming, detailed reference points in other languages you already know and even now, you still have the ability to build a habit. You need to consciously force it now, since that's no longer your natural state of being, but it's demonstrably possible. Neuroplasticity doesn't debunk shit.

>>280135663
Subscriptions for magazines.

>>280133567
True and real. I always felt like I was "wasting good anime" or too impatient to set aside or sit through a 20 minute episode. Vtuber content is trash content in the nicest way possible. You can be immersed watching them play a game you know about or just leave it on as dead noise, no pressure.

I've recently discovered 同時視聴. I have rewatched Tsukino Mito watch Fight Club like 5 times and just got done watching the Fate Series with Hoshikawa Sara. Super fun and understandable because their reactions will likely mirror your reaction to some degree.

>>280139198
I used to hate Vtubers too but most of that probably comes from English Vtubers. English Vtubers act cutesy and cringe and pretend to be anime girls. Japanese Vtubers have some of that too, but most of the time it's just someone streaming and talking like a normal Japanese person.

>>280140637
For some reason the only vtubers I can seem to like/get into (besides indies) come mostly from Nijisanji, which is said to be more oriented towards normalfags/riajuu/women IIRC.

>>280140637
>wasting good anime
wow, i resonate with this. i've kept a few anime titles on the backburner because i felt that i'd waste the first watch experience if i didn't know enough japanese to enjoy it
i should just watch them with subs and then rewatch it without them later tbqh

>>280140637
>>280141276
For anime you've probably been watching it for a while before you started seriously trying to learn Japanese and you probably have a few favorites you've rewatched many times over.
Those are the ideal shows for your immersion since you already know what's happening in any given scene.