ITT: lazy writing/worldbuilding
>demons are heckin evil because… they just are, okay??

>>280120812 (OP)
>demons

>>280120812 (OP)
>demon apologist

>>280120812 (OP)
exterminate all demons

>>280120812 (OP)
Taking the innate irredeemable evil out of demons while still wanting them in your story is an approach to worldbuilding that treats your monsters as interchangeable aesthetic units that don't really matter. A demon that isn't evil is just a spicy ghost or an especially ugly monster that comes from another world. The real laziness with demons in worldbuilding is the idea of being able to kill them, as this removes an equally if not far more important dimension to what they represent: they're spiritual forces in your life you can't overcome without overcoming evil and temptation itself, which you cannot do without spiritual guidance.

>>280120812 (OP)
>ermmm actually demons are three-dimensional and they're really not the bad guys, we can fix them
Man says, moments before demon murders his entire family

>>280120812 (OP)
Depth for pseuds.

Demons don't make any sense in universe or out. Any entire race of people who only pretend to have emotions so they can eat humans or something. But also they have their own functional society and it was going pretty well until Himmel killed their boss thus proving that they don't only do things to harm humans.

>demons almost genocide humies
>its ok for them to live and not finish them off because they lost
common mistake for beginners

>church bad
>demons good

To understand the demon question you first have to understand their parasitic behavior in nature as a survival strategy. Embrace it with religion and now you've created an evil species that seems evil for no reason at all. They act they way they do because it is in their nature to do so.

Some races are inherently evil like Jews and slavs

>>280120812 (OP)
>Evil
We're literally just the natural predator of human. If you think demons are evilz you're a vegan

>>280120812 (OP)
They're alligators who learned they get to eat meat if they put on a wig and lip stick and say "help me" to trick would-be white knights.

>>280122513
>We're
Oy vey

lions don't have to pretend to have feelings to eat humans
neither do bears
and they aren't extinct unlike demons

>>280120812 (OP)
Demons are beasts that have evolved to use manipulation to better hunt their prey and the only reason humans call them evils because humans are said prey. Lions are not evil to us, not are they evil to themselves as they are nearly doing what they need to do in order to survive but to the gazelles they are evil. If gazelles were to develop a society then it would be imperative to exterminate lions, not because they're evil but because their existence depends on hunting gazelles. The two species cannot live in peace.

>>280120812 (OP)
It's a series with kindergarten-tier writing. That's what I've been telling you

>>280120812 (OP)
it's dumb

>>280120812 (OP)
Demons are meant to be the personification of evil, it's not lazy but their purpose.

>>280120812 (OP)
Go back to Twitter/Bluesky, you fucking faggot.

The only demons that are cool in my book are the Iruma demons or the female ones in isekai that get on their knees and suck my dick
The rest can eat 12 gauge

>>280123131
>>280123417
t. demons

The worst part is he made the demons sexy going against his whole, they are ugly monsters thing

>>280122008
Its been lampshaded pretty heavily that the demons have been evolving closer and closer to humanity over time. They started off as purely unthinking animals that mimicked human voices as bait.
At some point, they started become more intelligent to trick humans better.
This has lead to them becoming more social as they internalize more human concepts. The GOAL of that internalization is still to trick and prey upon humans, but the side effect of that adaptation is that they still become closer to humanity. First in mind (we see older demons that are clearly intelligent, but look like horrible monsters) and later in body (modern demons look like pretty people with horns to better blend in and gain human trust before their betrayal).
If this trend continues, at some point they will have fully THING-ified themselves, and become something that mimcis humanity so well that it becomes indistinguishable from the thing it is copying, having evolved their predation of humans out of themselves because they have reached a level of intelligence and socialization where they are now able to understand concepts like malice and choose not to eat people instead of being a slave to their inherent instincts.
When this happens, the conflict is going to arise from the fact that when 'good' demons start to exist for real, Frieren *won't be able to believe them*. As long she judges them based on her past experiences with other demons, she will never be able to see their existence as something other than a ruse, even if its become genuine.

>>280123417
its a cat that can be fed dog kibble
we have the technology to grown meat in a vat
magic is not even real

demon niggas evil we done them like g*za

>>280127336
It wont become genuine because Frieren will exterminate them before that happens, thankfully

>>280127336
>If this trend continues, at some point they will have fully THING-ified themselves, and become something that mimcis humanity so well that it becomes indistinguishable from the thing it is copying, having evolved their predation of humans out of themselves because they have reached a level of intelligence and socialization where they are now able to understand concepts like malice and choose not to eat people instead of being a slave to their inherent instincts.
Which is a legitimately interesting thought, sincerely, but until something like that happens, they will continue to receive violence.

>>280127336
Yes, the demon question was always just the AI ethics problem

>>280127762
Correct. Until they actually reach this point conflict is not just inevitable, but necessary. They won't, can't, evolve further closer to humans without the *pressure* to. Its an arms race. If they win the arms race early, they have no further need to improve their adaptation.
One thing that reinforces this idea of their future is the Demon King, who we are told by at least two sources so far desired to co-exist with humanity... but that desire for co-existence lead to war and slaughter. Considering that he had a dude on staff that could see centuries ahead into the future, this outcome was not unknown to him. Which means that, whatever his goal for co-existence looked like, the war (and, indeed, the demon king's own death) must have been seen as necessary stepping stones to achieving that ultimate goal. A culling old older demons until only new demons survived, being put into a situation where brute force was tested and failed to win and thus necessitating more subtle methods, etc.
But just because demons will probably evolve into a more benign form eventually (like a virus that evolves to no longer be lethal to its host) doesn't change the fact that RIGHT NOW, demons are still dangerous and cannot be trusted.

The author already showed that it's possible to negotiate with demons and get them to keep their promises. That alone proves they are people and not animals.

>>280127336
Ghost in the Shell has a similar thing going on with machine souls. It’s my favorite anime, but I never connected the dots that the same kind of thing is going on with frieren demons. Except of course, the machines aren’t evil, but still, neat

>>280128000
Which is all a far more compelling and nuanced idea and concept than "It's a heckin racist/fascist allegory, just like Goblin Slayer!"

>>280128123
To an extent, but see: >>280127336

>>280127336
>Its been lampshaded
stopped reading here

>>280128123
Macht is a tragic figure because he is *so close* to the finish line, but is himself incapable of taking those crucial last steps.
He is able to resist the urge to kill humans for decades at a time. he is able to offer, make, and keep deals (at least when it suits him). He appears to be genuinely proud of Denken and his growth as a mage, and both of the 'final scenes' with Lord Gluck make it clear that Macht considered Gluck to be a friend even if Macht is, himself, incapable of thinking in those terms. Macht agreed with Gluck that their time together had been fun before turning him to gold, which might have been empty words on its own even if there was no need to keep pretending at that point. But later, when the city gets un-golded and Macht is fleeing for his life, Macht had the opportunity to take Gluck hostage and use him as a sacrificial shield to buy himself more time. He even threatens that he could do so, but makes no move to do it even when Denken is going to kill him.
Macht died, unwilling to kill a friend to save himself, but still not knowing that what they had was friendship. Its a mirror of Frieren crying at Himmel's funeral but still not really understanding the degree to which she cared about him, or him for her, and its tragic for all the same reasons.

>>280120812 (OP)
The way time travel works in Steins;Gate is peak lazy writing and narrative convenience.

>>280120812 (OP)
Kill Demons. Behead Demons. Roundhouse kick a Demons into hell.

>>280120812 (OP)
Demons are for the chambers

>>280128846
This is as cringe as BLACKED shit

>>280127336
>>280128000
The only problem with your analysis is the assumption that demons "internalize" human concepts in the sense that we usually mean it. By definition the demons' strategy makes it impossible to tell if adaptation actually modifies their ultimate drive to kill humans. (One can imagine a scenario in which demons eventually emulate humans so well that they actually do coexist for hundreds of years until demons outnumber humans at which point they start killing all humans for example.) So Frieren's position can never be proven wrong. It's not just that she is clearly correct given the present circumstances, but also the strategy "exterminate demons" will always reasonable given what is known and not known about demons.

>>280129124
No.

>>280120812 (OP)
Kill yourself, retarded tourist.

>>280120812 (OP)
Sometimes people want morally complex characters and sometimes people want black and white morality.

Society overdosed on anti-heroes during the 90s so now there is beginning to be a return to black and white morality characters because people got sick of it. People want simplicity.

>>280129124
>Sees a white woman
>Immediately starts thinking about black dicks
American hours

>>280120812 (OP)
...Yeah? The whole Yuusha vs Mao thing is an ancient and established trope, there are millions of stories with evil monsters and humans getting slaughtered, yet nobody bats an eye. All Frieren did was put a spotlight on it, and suddenly everyone says these mass murdering psychos dindu nuffin.
>>280121871
Japanese "demons" are more like physical cryptids, and are very distinct from western demons which are manipulative spiritual entities.

>>280129124
Agreed

>>280129195
True
You dont let a current massive threat continue to live because some day in the future that massive threat might just be a normal threat instead
You eliminate it

>>280130203
Its baffling to me that you thought anyone was ever arguing that the demons should be spared simply because they might one day become non-hostile.

>>280120812 (OP)
Both are lame, if you are going for the demons are evil route, make them an incomprehensible force you can't punch away or control. If you keep giving them human traits like mortality, fear, arrogance, etc, people will still look for more positive traits in them because the first ones don't exist in a vacuum; on rational beings, we can understand.

>>280128691
Watch out, if Steins;Gate retards hear you they'll go on about muh attractor field as if that's enough to justify anything.

>>280127336
>demons have been evolving closer and closer to humanity over time.
evolution is a thing that happens on a timeschale of 100.000 of years, dolphins could be on an evolutionary track towards agriculture and the industerial revolution for all we know but that doesn't change what they are right now and what they will continue to be for a very long time past the forseeable future.

>>280128524
I saw a neurodivergent lioness that lost several cubs take care of a baby gazelle on the television tube once, consequentially lions aren't predators of gazelles and zoo's should keep lions and gazelles in the same enclosure so both species can thrive in a roomier environment.

Legitimately never thought that the trope of 'if any evil thing is proven to exist, then there's gonna be some braindead moron picketing with signs saying they're people too" was true until I saw so many redditors angry at the depiction of demons in this show.

>>280130899
>evolution is a thing that happens on a timeschale of 100.000 of years
No it is a thing that happens on a scale of reproduction. we have observed evolution in things like fish happening very rapidly as they can have several generations in the same time a human has one.
So the Demons will 'evolve' as fast as they can produce new generations of themselves. I don't think the series has shown how Demons reproduce however.

>>280130906
Dude people defend billion dollar companies and tech bros online and said company and/or person doesn't even give a fuck about them, your pattern recognition is crap if you never noticed this without Reddit.

>>280130899
>I saw a neurodivergent lioness that lost several cubs take care of a baby gazelle on the television tube once, consequentially lions aren't predators of gazelles and zoo's should keep lions and gazelles in the same enclosure so both species can thrive in a roomier environment.
Its embarrassing that you think this is some kind of gotcha.

>>280129124
They're cut from the same kind of cloth, they even have edit wars and shit, and attack each other's boorus with DDOS and CP spam to try to take each other down. It's a very fascinating blend of mental illness, autism, and catastrophically out of control pornography addiction.

>>280131273
Nazi frieren poster here. I actually agree, I just posted it because Nazi Frieren funni

>>280130539
There are many that do argue that exactly, actually

freeren is ironically not a straightforward example of >demon bad. It would be..some cheap anime where a cgi shadow creature pops up and you don't remember it. It's more of a >what are the implications of demon bad
There's too much focus on how would a society react to it, etc.

>>280120812 (OP)
Villains can be be evil just because they are and not because of some tragedy in their past.

>>280131092
that's just a genetic bottleneck at work i.e. heavy selective bias towards one trait that is already present in a population of animals, the problem is that demons lack the very basic properties that make us human, you cannot sift out the few demons that can co-exist with humans and allow those to reproduce, because there aren't any. just like how there are no earth worms with eyes and how there are no cetaceans with gills; there are no demons with emphaty or love or compassion.

>>280120812 (OP)
Ishuzoku Reviewers handled it perfectly

>>280120812 (OP)
>Super secret army of powerful clones for warfare

Frieren thread!!!!
I like how they did demons. It's cool how humans learn magic from them too.

>>280120812 (OP)
People who like the demons in Frieren should read the novel Blindsight. Its a world where vampires have the same total, for real psychopathy, everyone knows it, but they work them into society anyway because they're so smart and helpful. Its also about making first contact with an alien and the alien is even more completely devoid of anything human.

>>280120812 (OP)
its not lazy