What makes a romance “mature” to you from a writing standpoint? I think if a couple can openly communicate in a manner that displays trust, vulnerability, understanding and empathy without trying to take it back or hide behind a different context, that displays lots of maturity.

>>280344194 (OP)
I think mature romance balances idealism and pragmatism of being in a relationship.

>>280344194 (OP)
>mature romance
the girl is used goods
the guy is a chad
they break up after a while

>>280344360
This is not a thread about your parents anon.

The relationship needs to be open to be mature

>>280344293
Good point, anon. I also like guy’s words. He obviously knows his self-worth but he’s not propping himself up or putting her down, just keeping it real and reassuring her in a blunt manner. She doesn’t need to worry about steering him everywhere.

>>280344194 (OP)
Not going around like retards for 100 chapters trying to just admit they like each other when its plainly obvious since the first chapter

>>280344194 (OP)
>What makes a romance “mature” to you from a writing standpoint?
Sex

>>280344580
I do wish more manga protags just went
>"You do realize not every single decision in my life revolves around you, right?"

>>280344194 (OP)
They dont think retarded shit as "if I touch her nipples during sex, will she get mad???"

>>280344293
Source?

Romance is a transaction:

she offers me the joy of sex I offer her jewelry
she offers me the joy of sex I offer her cars
she offers me the joy of sex I offer her housing

This is how it should be

>>280344360
This

>>280344661
Lil Autistic Nigga Conquers a Self Conscious Shrew, also known as Tonari no Onee-san ga Suki. It's by the author of The Girl I Like Forgot Her Glasses. Gotta warn you tho, it's TL is fucking atrocious for most of the manga.

>>280344293
this looks very incel coded

>>280344770
What do you mean by that?

>>280344770
the woman is framed to be the bad guy for no reason but to make the men feel better about himself

>>280344591
This, I remember reading a few chapters of a manga that I quickly dropped because in that story both the girl and the boy could see each other whenever they masturbated for some reason (but weren't aware the other could do see), and they always masturbated thinking of the other, but they were like "oh, so he's masturbating thinking about me, and using photos of me... does that mean he likes me??? no... i must make sure first"
it somehow ran for 44 chapters, but I dropped it at the 3rd

>>280344838>>280344800
>>280344770

srry... meant for

>>280344654
Same but also with just more characters in general. Unless their core trait is focused on insecurity or lack of self-worth, a character’s decision should never always revolve around someone else. For romance specifically, if all of a character’s motivations and goals are because of their love interest, the romance is pretty unbalanced.

>>280344838
How are you inferring that from a single page.

>>280344880
>if all of a character’s motivations and goals are because of their love interest
happens a lot IRL too, but in the end, more than just doing it for the other, its doing it for one self too in a way

>>280344194 (OP)
>What makes a romance “mature” to you from a writing standpoint?

-Not taking the entire manga (usually 100+ chapters) to confess or realize that they share mutual feelings especially when one party makes their feelings obvious.
-Not letting something trivial, such as miscommunication, ruin their foundation.
-Not freaking out when an ex-boyfriend or ex-girlfriend come around. Even if the ex tries something sneaky they have faith and trust that their partner will put a boundary up.

>>280344971
Nice try you disgusting kike freak

>>280345004
What?

>>280344194 (OP)
Realism

>>280345057
>"How will this make for more mature romance?"
>"Romance?"

>>280344927
>its doing it for one self too in a way
True, but that opens up the idea that if they don’t need or want you to do something for them then where would you aim your sights? A person who has their motivations and goals for themselves as well as the person they love are more adaptable to changes. They understand their wants and needs don’t always involve their partner and their partner should understand that too.

>>280344971
Sounds like a boring story

>>280345057
>no side effects
except possible STDs and pregnancy, and not to mention the social effects too

>>280345465
Sometimes the boring romance turns out to be the best one.

>>280345738
a story that focuses on how a real deep and healthy love develops over time seems to be what's missing among the drama slop we have en masse

>>280344421
wow
rude

His style looks too much like Rocket Monkey so I can't enjoy it no more.

>>280344770
you seem very retard coded

>>280345738
>>280345777
I agree. Some don’t appreciate a “boring” romance as much until they experience enough stories where all the tension comes from two couples trying to find the best excuse to hide their feelings from each other at every possible turn. It’s one thing to not feel ready to confess, it’s another when the narrative rips itself apart trying to keep the couple from being a couple. By comparison the stories that do the opposite feel like a breathe of fresh air.

>>280345777
It's not just drama slop, a lot of romances start off with one party already in love so us readers don't actually get to see the two parties fall for each other. It's usually one party obviously trying to win the other over, but the character doesn't notice or second-guesses everything once they start falling back cue the drama slop (omg he asked me to festival, that must mean he likes me..wait no i don't think so..etc). The best romances I've read in manga started off with neither partner in love from the get-go, they slowly developed a companionship that turned into mutual feelings.

>>280344293
His name better be Sunni-kun

>>280346041
you want boring stories becaue you're boring, you hate passionate storytelling because that's what you'll never have, women have needs and this milquetoast shit is definitely not it

btw you're all incels

>>280344194 (OP)
mature romance is boring so from writing point of view it only works (in most cases) when they're already together from start
no one wants to see two mature people talking through misunderstandings, having trust in each other, actually working to make a relationship run smoothly and just enjoying each others company

>>280346133
oh, i didnt know that, thanks for letting me know

>>280346101
Bruh, confessing your feelings is barely the first step on the journey of building actual love
Stories shouldn't end on the confession, first kiss or even at first sex, the things that happen during the relationship and how the couple manage to keep loving each other despite what life throws at them is where the real story is

>>280346181
virginal fantasy head-in-clouds garbage, get a life dude.

>>280346101
>you hate passionate storytelling because that's what you'll never have
What is passionate storytelling to you? A story can manage writing good tension/passionate writing without dumbing down its characters or making them seem allergic to communicating openly.

>>280346101
>women have needs and this milquetoast shit is definitely not it
even women get tired of the drama at some point and just want a peaceful love life that is endearing and caring enough to keep them happy, tho that usually happens in their 30s or when they hit 40

>passionate romance
anon you've been dealing with immature toddlers in adult bodies for so long and have such shit taste you wouldn't know what a healthy mature relationship looks like
the honeymoon phase lasts about 2-3 months until you have to see if you two are actually compatible at all, how you deal with the mundane day to day of relationship is the boring reality and the reason why so many people have affairs to try to relive that spark

>>280346207
>a realistic romance story is a virginal fantasy
Spotted the actual incel, dont bother replying anymore, everything you can say from now on is just pathetic cope

>>280345738
No woman will actually bother doing this to (You) unless you're extremely attractive

>>280346270
>immature toddlers in adult bodies
you mean women?

>>280346157
>no one wants to see two mature people talking through misunderstandings, having trust in each other, actually working to make a relationship run smoothly and just enjoying each others company
Then why does basically everyone seethe about romances that don’t do this? You can get 20+ threads on /a/ a week calling a manga shit because it’s romance has characters that take 300 chapters to confess or some shit.

>>280346329
Cool it with the sexism bro

>>280346101
>passionate storytelling
>miscommunication number 49
>ex "lover" from middle school shows up to start shit
>if not some ex lover its someone who likes the MC or heroine and they want to break them up
>retarded family drama that has no place in the story
>rapey MC who is borderline abusive
Passionate romance isn't really found in manga, it's literally just "problem of the week" to keep the story going and stall development. You're never going to get Wuthering Heights in manga form.

>>280346323
I can pay a woman to do this for (Me)
Many times.

I just don't want whores touching me

>>280346157
It might sound boring, but I think its actually needed, specially since a lot of people dont know how to actually work a real relationship and base their ideas on drama slop, which leads to disastrous toxic relationships and high divorce rate

>>280346329
basically majority of them
>>280346331
because /a/ loves to complain more than they like to watch anime?
also realistic and mature romance isn't entertaining from the outside unless you're lonely and self insert

>>280344194 (OP)
if it trusts the reader enough not to have the characters explain their feelings & tye message in dialogue or internal monologue

>>280344194 (OP)
Mature means sluts and blackpills. It's that simple.
Think about the relationships of your grandparents. They were together until they died, raising many children and overcoming many difficulties, but they always stuck together and supported eachother. Although they were old their relationship was immature and unrealistic.
Now think about the relationship between your sister and her second ex-husband who she has a restraining order against but might be getting back together with despite being impregnated by someone else. That's a real mature relationship.

Picrel is one of the best of the genre

>>280346373
Females (male) are cheaper for this and don't come with any skin diseases most of the time

That it's full of cheesy romanticized rape scenes.
That's the only thing that matters.

Need such a wife, to love, cuddle, hold hands, support and trust each other ;_;

>>280346382
>people should learn how relationships work from fiction
their parents are supposed to teach them and any anime or series trying to teach that to inexperienced people would just be labeled boring and bland show

>>280346270
Because most people think true love and a good relationship is a carnival 24/7, so when they hit the mundane part of living together or just feeling like doing nothing, they start to panic and look for more dopamine rushes elsewhere, when in reality, a well established couple can reignite those sparks from time to time, and is ok to have boring times too, even alone, life is not always super exciting, and there are times when its good to just lay down and do nothing

>>280346461
I just can't take this panel seriously when the MC looks like a twink.

>>280346403
>Think about the relationships of your grandparents. They were together until they died, raising many children and overcoming many difficulties, but they always stuck together and supported eachother.
my gradfather was a deadbeat drunkard who left his family

>>280346503
just means they're immature, don't bother teaching them that just avoid them and let them have their cock carousels
the baggage that comes from fixing her is not worth it, all you'll do is make yourself just as jaded and crappy as her

>>280346530
Gonna cry? gonna piss and shit yourself?

>>280346503
in reality being in the same space together yet being able to do your own thing is the best. there's no need to force conversation, there's a silent understanding in the quiet..

>>280346600
Why should I? I'm mature and blackpilled.

>>280346498
It's fine if you dont take fiction to model your life, but sadly the vast majority of people actually do that, specially teenagers, and a high number of said teenagers never really grow up fully and end up giving shitty models to their children too

>>280346530
Lucky you, you had a real grandfather whereas most were too brainwashed by patriarchal societal values to be mature

>>280346403
>Although they were old their relationship was immature and unrealistic
It takes an extreme amount of maturity to be consistent and persevere through hardships. A weaker couple would crack under the pressure, cheated or filed for a divorce. I see where you’re coming from with unrealistic but that’s only dependent on the will of the couple. A couple that finds out they’re not very compatible should cut their losses but if they see they can build something truly lasting then it’s not unrealistic to go through the thick and thin together.
>Now think about the relationship between your sister and her second ex-husband who she has a restraining order against but might be getting back together with despite being impregnated by someone else. That's a real mature relationship
That’s not maturity, that’s desperation and cope. Normal, functioning people see their worth and move forward with their lives.

>>280346403
picrel has a suprisingly strong romantic thread
they must trust and relay on erch other and developing relationship in extremely dangerous environment

>>280346685
go back your discord

>>280344194 (OP)
Its not maturity, its a normal, healthy relationship. Rare in this fucked up times with brainwashed girls.

>>280346699
>It takes an extreme amount of maturity to be consistent and persevere through hardships.
Doesn't always have to be maturity, money can keep a marriage afloat. Many marriages are made up of couples where one or both cheated yet stayed together, whether it be for the kids or money since men get fucked over with divorce, child support etc.

>>280346612
Based

>>280346647
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Dostoevsky
it can work but trying to teach people how to have a healthy relationship with fiction is a fools errand, even if you know how to have it it's individually based
best lesson is communicate issues and learn to enjoy each others presence in silence, still won't help at all if the other person isn't mature so them kids were fucked from the start

>>280346699
you're replying to a lame troll that's trying to hard to bait, dont bother arguing with underage posters

>>280346797
Cheating my wife is untkinkable for me, I would love her so much

>>280346851
Do you love her enough to let her have another lover?

>>280344194 (OP)
Not in high school

>>280346840
didnt he cheat on his wife

>>280344194 (OP)
>What makes a romance “mature” to you from a writing standpoint?
For me, the characters have to also exist outside of the romance, where character traits/goals/problems happen irrespective of their loved one and yet can still have a tangible effect on their relationship.

>>280346882
Why?
>>280346881
Firstly, I am talking about my hypothetic future wife, secondly, I wish she loved me not cheat, im not into NTR

>>280346903
he coined the term "fiction as a medium of education"

>>280346706
if only they werent actual children and the author wasn't a pedo

It's shit, women need to be hysterical, men need to be aggressive, the kids should be hiding, there should be pots, pans, knives, cats and TV's flying everywhere, anything else is boring

>>280346931
So you wouldn't love her enough to let her do what she wants and needs?

>>280346840
>Ruskies, the worst nest of degeneracy in the world teaching about relationships
2ch->

>>280346980
go back to /pol/ you fucking kike, we dont want your cuck propaganda here
also, this might sound alien to you, but when a person is really in love with another one, they dont really feel the need to fuck other people

>>280346906
>For me, the characters have to also exist outside of the romance, where character traits/goals/problems happen irrespective of their loved one and yet can still have a tangible effect on their relationship.
Which is why most romance manga, shoujo or harem, is shit.

>>280347031
Women are naturally wired to love the most powerful men they can settle for, that may be you (FOR A TIME) but it's never gonna last

>>280347011
>you can only read literature from your own coutry
that explains a lot

>>280346964
did you actually liked that your parents were toxic toddlers in adult bodies?

>>280346797
Now that I’m thinking about it, it could be about ego too when it’s not about money or even both at the same time. Though more often than not and ideally, it’s about maturity. You or your partner fuck up (that’s to be expected) and you have disagreements, so unless it’s something extremely unrepairable or horrid like murder or cheating, you talk shit out, compromise and grow from the experience. Mature people are open-minded and try to understand what’s going on from the other person’s perspective, then they make their decisions from there.

>>280347070
At least it wasn't boring

>>280346957
amerifat detected, stop reducing everything to sex
you have a schizophrenia joining excessive prudery and total degeneration

>>280347081
Cheating isn't even that bad most of the time

>>280347101
>LEAVE MY PEDOPHILE AUTHOR ALONE! WHO CARES IF THE CHILDREN ACT LIKE ADULTS?

>>280347031
Not even /pol/ they are also 4chan.
Reddit or discord are places for such a propagandists

Incel thread

>>280347188
Yes.

>>280347101
dude he's a do-not-let-within-10-km-of-a-school tier 14 child molester

>>280344293
>hehehe, just stay there staring slack jawed while I monologue on my superiority

Why do people like this juvenile shit?

>ITT: people who have never touched a woman telling you how to make mature relationships
What a riot

>>280347081
>horrid like murder
There are cases of people covering for their loved one, or even helping them so not even murder is guaranteed to kill a marriage.

>>280347290
Men be like that, especially incel men that fanatically believe their own self importance

>>280347147
It’s a major breach of trust. If you want to fuck other people, then stay single and fool around with one night stands or be with someone who’s alright with open relationships.

>>280344654
They did that in cafe goddesses. MC was worrying if they'd all have trouble or give up their dreams if they married him and one of the beta haremettes straight up told him "you know they have lives outside of you, right"

>>280347339
Tits or gtfo

>>280347365
Good men should listen to their women more, there's simply some things about the female mind men will never be able to understand

>>280347365
>be with someone who’s alright with open relationships.
Only works with FFM, MMF could kill a relationship.

>>280347365
Cheating in 95% cases "just happens" and that's quite literally exactly what happens, there's genes and hormones which are completely uncontrollable at play

>>280347478
>completely uncontrollable at play
if you're an NPC or a lowly animal

>>280347478
People should have a self control, wtf is wrong with you? Stop behaving like (not even all) wild animals, who can not use their mind.

>>280347478
It can be a “just happens” or “I was seduced/or drunk out of my mind” but cheating also has people repeatedly going behind their partners back when they know they shouldn’t. Maybe, just maybe if it was a one-time thing, there’s something to be salvaged but there’s no excuse for lying and going around behind your partners back when you can just tell them it’s not working anymore. Hiding and delaying the truth can lead to nasty shit like people killing one another because they found their partner cheating.

>>280347223
What are you on about? This is a snippet of a conversation.

>>280347574
This, that sort of people shouldnt have a voting rights, fucking pests.
How the fuck you can have your loving wife who waits for you to hug you, give some headpats etc, ant then cheat on her?
Disgusting.

>>280347478
>there's genes and hormones
What?

>>280347574
No, it happens because you time and time again fail to understand women, they don't think like you do and they never will

>>280347478
>"just happens"
Is that what one of your parents told you?

>>280347738
I hope this post is a bait, and we are not posting there with that sort of degenerates.

>>280347793
Nice englisho ESL-Kun

>>280346488
>>280346454
Why tonikawa is so underrated? I almost cried watching this.

>>280347847
blah blah, this thread made me angry and im from poland not america or other australia

Guys how do I understand women

men cheat cause they're tired of the same pussy, women cheat cause they're emotionally unfulfilled which is why people argue its worse when they cheat cause they aren't doing it just for sex...

>>280344194 (OP)
Idk about "mature" but the most cancerous and childish thing a romance anime/manga can do is having the guy spazzing out because he can see the girls neck or ankles. Or the second he misunderstands something, he has to shout and scream and run away like a dumb fucking retard subhuman.

It's not even being shy, it's literally just being retarded. Also, stories about college students or adults being too shy to kiss after 50 chapters.

>>280347908
>t. experienced r/cuckold user

>>280347907
cut off your dick, suck up all your body fat with a vacuum and install tits

women will open up to you but they will roast you like the disgusting freak you become behind your back

>>280347907
Unironically read 4chan anons

>>280347907
spend more time on internet

>>280347907
become a serial rapist

>>280347940
>he can see the girls neck or ankles.
to be fair its usually her tits or ass while she changing or something. not that it justifies him running away cause no one would do that irl

guys idk what happened but i accidentally fucked 2 guys by accident i didint think it would happen but it happened accidentally by accident

i still love him though

>>280348113
this xD

This thread is why we need Islam to put women in their place

>>280344770
>-coded
Kill yourself

all the incels here pretending only women cheat lol

>>280345922
The linework is completely different.

>>280351423
Also the faces too

>>280344194 (OP)
Thats literally how the self-insert MC get all the girls on an average harem romcon anon.
>>280344293
This is just keikaku dori level of writting, not idealistic neither pragmatic, just the MC all uppity for reasons.
Your sperging make stuff like kanokari to be genuinely mature.

>>280344194 (OP)
Farting loudly with your SO in the same room and be ok with it

>>280344194 (OP)
when the woman shits on the man and the man sits there and takes it like a bitch

>>280354198
this, my dad used to fart loudly around the house, and my mom didn't really like that, but she tolerated it, that's mature love right there

>>280350124
⅓ fathers don't know their kid isn't actually theirs

>>280344194 (OP)
It's just a tone thing. No over-the-top drama or excessively whacky circumstances. That doesn't mean it has to be dry and humorless, just not cartoony.

>>280354400
>That doesn't mean it has to be dry and humorless, just not cartoony.
Things can be relatively cartoony and still retain a mature feel as long as the moments that display maturity feel like a core aspect of their relationship instead of a one-off thing. Tone is a factor but how you write two characters’ interactions despite some circumstances really makes the difference. Over the top drama I agree with you as long as the narrative doesn’t undermine or overtake the characters’ relationship.

>>280353350
>reasons
What is this reductive bitch shit anon. Dude started watching movies and got into writing because of her, but now those are genuinely just things he enjoys for their own sake. Her thinking its her fault for ruining his eyesight with those is fucking frustrating and he lets her know that, instead of burying the lede in some typical romance platitudes. That's such simple, emotionally mature rationale that it felt like a breath of fresh air when I read it. I hate it when retarded tragedy melodrama is masquerading as mature writing, when the reality of romantic challenges in real life is rarely some outlandish drama situation and more often very mundane stuff like that.
>kanokari
Worst comparison you could have picked. This page alone has the MC display more self-respect than Kazuya did in his entire manga. That guy is a simp and his every breath and action revolve around his romantic obsession. The character writing of that manga is dogshit and you are retarded for implying anything but that.

>>280353350
Have you even read what happened in >>280344293 or even know the context? The boy was 1000% correct in saying that and it wasn't any sort of gotcha against any gender or the girl in particular.
Read I'm in Love with the Older Girl Next Door, Vol. 3, Ch. 35 for free on MangaDex https://mangadex.org/chapter/8831a2d0-1998-4468-aa00-5c5fb0cb0cca
There you go the exact chapter.

>>280344194 (OP)
It's easier for me to use examples of immature romance as a point of reference, so I'll do that. I think there are 3 "poles" of immature romance: 3 directions that'll hurt a romantic story as you progress toward the extremes.

- Over-the-top, childish, and dramatic romance. This is commonly seen in media marketed towards young boys.
- Sexual romance, wherein a couple's relationship is sexually-motivated. This is commonly seen in media marketed towards older women, but it's also present in slapstick romances for boys.
- Pretentious romance: tryhard introspective seinen garbage. I'm sick of seeing characters dump their hearts like they're in a group therapy session and make worthless saccharine gestures. Mostly present in media marketed towards women.

The most genuinely mature romance to me is indistinguishable from a good friendship.

>>280345057
god she was hot

>>280345738
It's just drama

>>280357412
Is it? Its easy to namedrop a word, but can you actually explain what it is and how it makes the story being told there bad?

>>280344194 (OP)
Growing, not just having two characters who act like a mask from the beginning to the end, but two persons that thanks to their relationship change together, face their problems and reach their goals

>>280357095
What you didn't include is the common nothingburger romcomlop where nothing happens for 200 chapters. Should I assume that's the mature romance you're looking for? Nagatoros, anjous etc?

>>280357555
That's either a pacing issue or hackneyed writing. Nagatoro is a bit of both. It could also be a serial format issue - something like Takagi-san was never designed to be a character or relationship study, it's a fucking collection of gag strips more similar to something like Seki-kun, but with a romantic bend. Yet you will still see retards cite it as a manga where nothing happens.

>>280357469
It's not bad, but her disease becomes like the classic element that forces them to stay separeted in someway, the fear of the intervention and yadda yadda yadda. To these kind of authors I would like to say "you know that sometimes romance can just go well, right?"

>>280357700
To be pedantic, it's a congenital heart defect, not a heart disease and that's somewhat signifcant, because the issue is not "she gonna die", but "dating somebody who is chronically ill is difficult". It's a very realistic challenge for them to overcome and you are experience how they deal with it firsthand. And in the end it goes just fine.

>>280355736
>Her thinking its her fault for ruining his eyesight with those is fucking frustrating and he lets her know that, instead of burying the lede in some typical romance platitudes.
Thats average kdrama level of mature, which is easy mopping writting to get easy reaction.
Kanokari still has movie arc which, as i per see >>280356857, the highest level of genuine mature feeling modern romcom (incluiding shoujosei) can get.
I bet you also believe Sakuta's "I am a virgin" monologue is a realistic depiction of how a functional teenager is.

>>280344194 (OP)
Not being afraid of sex. It is impossible to take a romance seriously when they treat sex, sexual compatibility, and sexual attraction, like an afterthought. 99% of these couples should be fucking each other after the 3rd date. It doesn't even need to be pornographic or fanservicey, just make it exist.

/a/ - 3D Relationships and Advice

>just talk it out bro
>she loves you so she must understand you
You fags need to stop watching MGTOW bros and Beauty sisters for live advices. And appreciate romcom as for what they are, FICTION!
you retards

>>280357883
>its average because I say so
You have about as many real arguments as Kazuya has real girlfriends.

>>280358059
I'm sure you felt very clever posting this.

>>280357883
>ESL
>simp
>retarded opinion
Its like pottery, it rhymes.

>>280358070
>girlfriends
>s
He already had one
So he already has more experience in relationships than EVERYONE on this thread, as ironic it is.

>>280357700
>but her disease becomes like the classic element that forces them to stay separeted in someway, the fear of the intervention and yadda yadda yadda
Her heart defect never really keeps them separated until one small stretch of chapters (which has been built up to well beforehand). If anything, it helps them bond better because the main reason for her insomnia is the fear of never waking up and his insomnia comes from the opposite. The main goal of the “drama” of the story is providing a unique perspective on what it’s like to live with and love someone who has an illness. Also it emphasized the importance of living in the present, the male lead is traumatized by his past while the female lead is too focused on her future. Their relationship and the usage of astrophotography is what helped them focus on the present.
>To these kind of authors I would like to say "you know that sometimes romance can just go well, right?"
The romance DOES go well, the obstacles don’t dramatically hinder the characters’ relationship and never really overtakes the fluff and romance because the author understands having a balance between that and letting the characters love each other.

>>280358092
I'm not insecure enough to project my intelligence by the media I choose to read or watch, so no.

>>280358138
>Le ESL boggeyman
Mature people dont lecture their feelings anon
They are not teachers
Even Kimizero (the romcon with the used goods) is more mature than all the examples from /here/.

>>280358149
>my argument is that a fictional character had a girlfriend at some point

>>280358189
Nah I think you're just mentally handicapped.

>>280358190

>>280358149
>>280358248
Anon, he said has, not had. Something you would understand if you weren't a retarded ESL.

>>280344194 (OP)
>What makes a romance “mature” to you from a writing standpoint?
If you ask female authors
>used goods female MC
>virgin but 7'0 supermodel male MC
>also has 3'0 hands
>relationship drama, cheating
>third wheeling
>casual sex
>never getting married by the end of the manga

>>280358241
>no u
>vague mental diagnosis
Found the Dungeon Meshi fan

>>280358284

>>280358248
Anon, that post is talking about how retarded your statement about a fictional character having more experience is, not about how having a girlfriend in the past invalidates him not having one now.

>>280358318
I know what moving the goalpost is you imbecile, how in the fuck does this apply here. Did you just pick a fallacy at random to look smart?

>>280358326
>we went from fictional "mature" romance discussion to "discuss" fictional romance experience
And still does not change >>280344293 is "I grab this potato chip" -tier of mature compared to, not only to kanokari, but other manga works like this one >>280358054

>>280358149
>>280358189
>>280358248
>>280358296
least mentally retarded kanokari reader

>>280358394
Nobody switched to discuss fictional romance experience, what the fuck are you talking about?
>>280358394
>"I grab this potato chip"
...What in the actual fuck are you talking about??

>>280358354
The one who picked a fallacy to look smart is him >>280358138

>>280358469
Nah, you appear to be a retarded esl simp alright.

>the effect of a single indian on a coherent thread

>>280347060
>Canceling the world
That's what the West has become

>>280344738
>it's

>>280358450
To lecture someone how "I do not revolve around you" comes as like that scene of that other anime where the mc grabs a potato chips as if the whole world depends on it.
Is not mature, is just a faggot way to show off.

>>280358531
>To lecture someone how "I do not revolve around you" comes as like that scene of that other anime where the mc grabs a potato chips as if the whole world depends on it.
...what?

>>280358531
Anon, you might legitimately be autistic.

>>280346157
>talking through misunderstandings, having trust in each other, actually working to make a relationship run smoothly and just enjoying each others company

>>280358531
Incomprehensible post. I kneel.

>>280358598
The most offensive thing about this LN is how poorly its written and paced. If its wasnt for the used goods femc fixation literally nobody here would be talking about it.

>>280358556
>>280358571
>>280358600
>NOOO I MUST LECTURE MY GIRL MY LIFE DO NOT REVOLVE AROUND HER TO SHOW I AM A GROW UP
Meanwhile outside /pol/
>>280358054
>"If I took you for granted. I tought you might not like me anymore"
No self-patronizing
Realize his girl is not granted

/a/ really doesn't know what they're talking about when it comes to romance anime, even more than other genres.

>>280358642
Why did you bring up /pol/.

>>280358642
Anon, did you even fucking read that chapter?

>>280358663
Is /pol/tard thing to lecture about their worthless feelings as it will solve anything.

>>280358642
Anon he's not lecturing her, he is literally pointing out that she is taking blame and assuming responsibility for something she shouldn't. He is trying to get her to stop apologizing. I know you haven't read that manga and dont know what the fuck you are talking about.

So this is what reading rent-a-whore does to your brain...

>A single fucking page of a shoujo trope amused zoomers to think they are better than the others
read more manga
all of you

>>280344194 (OP)
>What makes a romance “mature” to you from a writing standpoint?
Understanding that romantic love is simply lust.

>>280344194 (OP)
>What makes a romance “mature” to you from a writing standpoint?
no purityshit

>>280358683
>>280358729
You mean the same shit Kazuya does
ALL THE TIME

>>280358836
Why make the guy a virgin then?

>This whole thread

>>280357555
I didn't mention it because it wasn't offensive enough to reach my top 3, but I do dislike it.

>>280344194 (OP)
This one fucked me up.

>>280358598
I dropped this and Meguro-san wa Hajimete ja Nai
I don't remember why I dropped this though, my problem is not an experienced girl, because it is in the premise after all, but it seems hard for japanese writers to handle these characters and end up creating a distorted reality that accidentally confirms the fear of readers who don't like experienced girls.

>>280358836
>there are a men and women who wouldn't just walk away the moment their supposed "lover" said something like that to them
Really boggles my nogging. I have walked away for far less.

>>280358976
>accidentally confirms the fear of readers who don't like experienced girls.
Meanwhile the used goods
>picrel
So the negros who shill this shit >>280344293 and shit on kinokari are these negros >>280358920
afterall kek

>>280359082
Sorry I am a bit lost about your point about my post you first quoted

>>280358810
The funniest shit about Kimi Ni Todoke is compared to today's high school romances, is average.
But the amount of le wholesome shonen and seinen romances shilled by casualfags are just a copy paste of kimi ni todoke. Hell even Skip & Loafer is just another kimi ni todoke.
Yet those fags refuse to read a single shoujo romance when all their favorite le wholesome mangos today are pretty much another variant of kimi ni todoke.

>>280359082
Only people who do not watch or read any anime romance besides what their favorite anituber shills to them think kimizero shows used goods on a bad light.

>>280359215
mean for >>280359182

Who do shoujofags seethe so much about people not reading them? I miss when normalfaggots didn't read shonen romcom

>>280359082
Yes I would rather shill a good manga rather than a shit manga.

>>280359040
because people make mistakes anon

>>280359249
>good
>a vanilla shoujo variant from last decade
for tourists and newfags could be

>>280359082
>kinokari

>>280359281
It ended this year, retard-kun. Also what the fuck does this have to do with quality.

>>280358967
It was a balm for my soul. Ojiro knows how to write a good iyashikei romance.

>>280359254
>Then she sets to have new first time with him
>Watch a lets play streamer for the first time to understand him better
The used goods romcom hit so many checks of what casualfags ask for anime romance but also has a lot that filters them kek

>>280359281
>shoujo
Dont project your newfaggotry onto others if you dont have the mental faculties to hide it.

>>280359297
Reduced if it just a copypaste a previously successful work

>>280359215
I will read it once is finished and then I'll give it a real opinion.

>>280359327
anon
>>280359189

>>280359254
>watch the scene in case this was taken out of context
>it's not, and this is even followed by the cuck male lead saying "even if you've experienced something with someone else, if you feel something new and different when you do it with me, then I'm happy"
Of course this was written by a woman.

>>280359341
Did you have a stroke?

>>280359356
Anon is clearly autistic irl. I've met a few people like that. You are not getting any discussion done in this thread anymore.

>>280359254
Why is she crying like that in the scene?

>280359342
Outing yourself as a tourist like that show this thread was a tourist raid afterall kek

I think mature romance is just romance I believe in the relationship as something that "could" happen. Doesn't matter if they're together or not or in a will they won't they sort of drama, if I believe the characters are acting like something that resembles humans then to me that's mature romance.

The typical shounen romcom or shoujo melodrama fundamentally violate that principal, as a rule.

>>280359381
>le autistic boogeyman
>even when the post which started all is also an ESL >>280344293
>*a mature romance
Just be happy your thread is still active

>>280359189
It's "average" in terms of premise, but it's far better than today's romcoms. Also, no, all those shounen and seinen romances aren't just copy pastes of Kimi ni Todoke. There may be some that have a similar premise but they aren't just all a copy paste of Kimi ni Todoke. What is kind of funny which you pointed out is that a lot of these romcomfags refuse to read a single shoujo manga when so many tropes that are staples of their romance came from shoujo. Kanokari is still a total dumpster fire.

>>280359355
stop being an incel
everyone deserves happiness

>>280359451
Is not a total one when Sumi's character development exist.

>>280359398
>if I believe the characters are acting like something that resembles humans then to me that's mature romance
I think a lot of the downfalls of bad romances nowadays in anime/manga is they lack any sort of balance in making their characters multi-faceted. A character’s main trait would be so overemphasized, you don’t think they could be anything more than what they are. Either that or authors would make characters just caricature of tropes or a tool to insert whatever message they wanted to say without trying to even be subtle about it. I believe to an extent, a character can be exaggerated, cartoony or larger-than-life, but if they lack aspects that ground them, then they would suck and more often than not they drag the romance down with them.

>>280359393
>>280359430
>>280359461
You literally cannot string a single sentence together and keep deepthroating the same two works with inane, incoherent bullshit anon.

>>280344194 (OP)
Nuance.

>>280344194 (OP)
Read better manga

>>280346354
>You're never going to get Wuthering Heights in manga form

Oniisama e… exists. It’s a pure gothic romance melodrama just like it.

>>280358836
This. Virginity is overrated af and feels forced.

“Mature” romances is not something JP does. In fact it’s not something ANYONE does anymore, outside of a few Western authors. Romance, for the last several decades since the millennials has been animalistic sex, basically just non-white views of the relationship of men and women. Why this has happened when romantic love used to be so prominent in Western culture I have no idea. Probably no one in this thread knows the emotion of feeling connected to the opposite sex that goes beyond sexual desire — not that it’s non-sexual, just that it’s moved to a stage that goes beyond sex, like how being friends with someone has moved beyond shaking hands. Unless you’ve met your anima / animus (google it) in a dream you probably haven’t felt it.

>>280362688
Surely you can provide examples of actual romantic love stories then?

>>280359355
Yes, of course. Women don’t care about who else the guy has been with, and in fact the more the better because it means he’s desirable. What women want is to be the final destination for him, for him to forget about all others when he gets with her. Women authors naturally project this onto their male characters.

>>280362722
Read the Comoran Strike series written by J.K. Rowling under a pen name. It’s a detective novel series, but it’s really romance with a detective mystery setting. The reason why I bring this series up is because it’s recent (not classic literature) by a famous author which you can find in audiobook form all over YouTube for free. You will understand what a mature romance is. I really liked the latest book The Running Grave from 2023.

>>280362939
Okay. What about classic literature you mentioned?

>>280344194 (OP)
I think those are all bad things in a romance manga.

>>280365707
Why exactly?

>>280367563
All of it. Maturity in a story makes it worse.

>>280368605
Why does maturity make a story worse?

>>280368695
It introduces gay, pretentious things like ambiguity or bittersweet endings. A story's job is to entertain me, not lecture me.

>>280368858
Stories do lecture you, that's why they have themes.

>>280369048
nta, but a lecture is different from having a message.

>>280344194 (OP)
>I think if a couple can openly communicate in a manner that displays trust, vulnerability, understanding and empathy without trying to take it back or hide behind a different context, that displays lots of maturity.
Now you're thinking with portals

>>280371575
>Now you're thinking with portals
What does that mean? Portals?

>>280372544
Zommer or Thirdie? Call it.

>>280345738
Source?

>>280373058
Neko no Otera no Chion-san, same author also made Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia and Fujiyama-san wa Shishunki.

>>280373027
Oh, sorry, you were being sarcastic that OP was thinking out of the box, but his thinking is pretty standard for a romance and an ideal couple.

>>280359382
because she's admitting she's used goods

>OP is just a zomzom who barely reads manga
Is this why shit like Bokuyaba has casuals dick-riding it as a "mature romance"?
>WAE? THIS ANIMU DOES NOT FOLLOW THE ROMCOM TROPES CHINGCHONG TOLD ME ANIMU USE!? SO MATURE!

>seething over a simple question

>>280374871
Actually retarded

>>280375895
How?

>>280375627
>WAE
How Asians say way?

>>280374857
Thanks

>>280377148
No problem.

>>280344720
That sounds so unromantic. I feel all the romance manga I've read are not like that.

>>280344572
haha

>>280357095
>I'm sick of seeing characters dump their hearts like they're in a group therapy session and make worthless saccharine gestures.
Sounds like Oregairu.

>>280344656
What manga did that happen in?

>>280345146
Yes, just get rid of romance altogether kek. It's not realistic I guess.

>>280347295
My Home Hero in a nutshell.

>>280347907
The more you understand them, the less you'll like them.

>>280379451
nta, but B Gata H Kei has some really stupid moments that sound similar to that because the guy was a huge beta

>>280377834
But that's how real life is.

This would make any woman's pussy dry up, yet she passionately kissed him the next page. I like this manga, but this part was terrible.

>>280383183
She kissed him because she loves him. He’s kept his guard up pretty well around her and the moment he drops it and bares his heart out to her, of course she would be moved. She did the same with him when she told him her fears and her reason for her insomnia. He reassured her and took action to stay up and talk to her with the radio stuff. The entire trip was them drifting closer and closer physically and sharing space more intimately. The kiss was the climax set up by everything beforehand. Her being disgusted by him being emotionally vulnerable with her would be shit writing after what they’ve been through together so I don’t get why you’d think she’d be anything but overwhelmed by the heat of the moment.

I like it when we get the love confessions early and then the story focuses on their trials and tribulations as a couple.
Bonnie and Clyde shit you know?

>>280384815
This, they should also go straight to having kids together in the middle of the story.

>>280383774
lol, no woman is going to find a man crying a turn on

>>280385116
>fixated on sex
Missing the entire point but sure.

>>280382967
>joy of sex
Just go fuck a prostitute then.

>>280385116
But women loved this scene

i rather read some slop like nisekoi over all the "mature" overrated shit you faggots pretend is good like the op or ase to sekken

>>280387937
>pretend
Why so bitter that people actually enjoy different things? Not everybody wants to read the same rinse and repeat “slop” you grudgingly love.

>>280387937
Couldn't agree more

>>280388086
Don't try to pass off this whore empowerment shit as anything more than dung shit then.

>>280388242
>Don’t [have a positive opinion about something or else I’ll get angry]
Go make a thread talking about what YOU like in a romance then. Talk about how you love stories that stall until the end of the manga before putting their couple together. Nobody’s stopping you.

Need this type of love.

Fuck…

Too sweet.

>>280344194 (OP)
Hard to describe but everything just feels real. From couple fights to jealousy to makeup sex.

>>280388785
>>280388801
>>280388818
>>280388848
This is the kind of stuff that makes romance feel forced and artificial. They're completely meaningless sentimental gestures. I can't imagine anyone acting like this in real life unless they're kids (physically or mentally) trying to imitate what they watched in a chick flick or in chick literature.

>>280388991
>This is the kind of stuff that makes romance feel forced and artificial. They're completely meaningless sentimental gestures.
Explain how any of what was shown meaningless (requires reading the manga btw). You’re going off of nothing here, anon.
>I can't imagine anyone acting like this in real life unless they're kids (physically or mentally) trying to imitate what they watched in a chick flick or in chick literature
You can’t imagine anyone having a sincere conversation with their partner and being physically intimate? That’s pretty sad.

>>280388991
>meaningless sentimental gestures
This is exactly how you keep a relationship afloat long term. Go observe your parents.

>>280388785
>>280388801
>>280388818
>>280388848
virgin addled platitudes

>>280389285
Who hurt you?

>>280389323
This just doesn't ring true with anyone who has more than their mother pretending to be their girifriend in the relationship portfolio

>>280389352
>avoiding the question
Again, who hurt you?
>mother pretending to be their girifriend in the relationship portfolio
Oh…

>>280344194 (OP)
sex

>>280389220
>Go observe your parents.
don't think that's going to work considering the average poster in this thread

If the main couple is shown to genuinely care and want each other plus they actually overcome problems as couple I would qualify it as mature.