Thread 280371441

We used to complain about the old model of anime serialization, especially shonenshit and long-running weekly garbage that never ended. Filler arcs, recap episodes, snail pacing, arcs that meant nothing and looked like dogshit. It was unsustainable.

So we got change and now anime runs in curated, beautiful, 1–2 cour chunks. No filler, no budgetless episodes. This started changing around the mid to late 2010s, it felt like a dream.
>Prestige TV anime with tight production and proper pacing.

Today the industry revolves around a handful of seasonal Prime-Time cult shows, not necessarily the best, but the most visible: Jujutsu Kaisen, Re:Zero, Attack on Titan, Frieren, Spy x Family, etc. I’m not even talking about story quality here but rather cultural presence and production weight. These shows come back every two, sometimes three years and when they do, it’s not a continuation, it’s a comeback and in the meantime, everything else is treated as content drift. The Prime-Time cult shows dominate attention and resources, conditioning the viewer to wait like a shareholder.
>“6 YEARS TO CLEAR HALF OF A FINISHED MANGA.”

old good new bad

>>280371441 (OP)
What fills the air between these big returns? Slop.
The Isekai tide has been around for 13+ years now, and people still wonder why it hasn’t died. Here’s why: it’s not here to be good. It's the default you’ll watch it until the next Prime-Time show returns.

There's no room for new voices, no budget for mid-tier shows. If a Prime-Time slot does free up (either by a missed release year or a series ending) so a show like DanDaDan or Solo Leveling take the slot, then it becomes prime-time. It's kings and peasants, and for the most part either you make it to be a king or are left behind like a peasant.

But then you'll hear:
>“Anime is bigger than ever! Over 200 series a year!”
Most of those shows exist to pay studio bills, the remaining 15% is what actually gets a budget.
And while that bubble keeps swelling, the industry fossilizes around its top names.

So what's the fix?
No, we're can't go back to 300-episode weekly sagas. That shit's dead.
But we can bring back the AA middle class, the kind of shows we had in the 2000s. 1 - 2 cour/season productions of 24 episodes, self-contained arcs:
Shows like Paranoia Agent, Ergo Proxy, Planetes, Texhnolyze, Black Lagoon, Gankutsuou, Noein, Baccano!. They weren't megahits, but they were built to last. And they weren't trying to be low-effort seasonal filler either. They were mid-budget, high-concept, and made to tell stories.
>But anon, those were also a minority.
Yes, in an era where they would make 100 animes at most.

We need more shows like Call of the Night, Dr. Stone, My Home Hero (which still can take years between seasons), but a lot more.
Right now, the split feels like:
>75% trash, 10% mid quality production, 15% high-profile.
What it should be is:
>50% trash (can’t kill it all), 45% AA mid, 5% event-tier cult shows

>>280371543
No, old bad, new bad.

>>280371583
This world... is rotten.

>>280371441 (OP)
Old good new bad unironically and suck my dick zoomers

>>280371652
It's so funny because Death Note is the type of show that would take 6 years to be adapted, 12 episodes every 2 years, just so every frame could have max attention if done today despite being finished for over 20 years.

>>280371549
>But we can bring back the AA middle class, the kind of shows we had in the 2000s
>They were mid-budget, high-concept, and made to tell stories
They tried
It went horribly

>>280371880
>and suck my dick zoomers
Gay

>>280371441 (OP)
>No filler, no budgetless episodes
Hahaha.....

>>280372218
>2016
that was too early.

>>280372536
Maybe true
This had a much better return, both commercially and audience-wise

What about that one where the robots were playing a real life MMO

>>280372607
My favourite original of 2021, followed closely by Sonny Boy, with Odd Taxi at third. Fuck, that was a great year.

>>280373164
>original
Anon...

>>280371441 (OP)
>This started changing around the mid to late 2010s
They've been around a lot longer than that, it's just that position which is now occupied by mainstream shounenshit used to be held by the sort now pushed further into the periphery that's lucky to get 12 episodes at all. Mahoromatic, Ikkitousen, Nanoha, GitS SAC, Raildex, School Rumble, SZS, Minami-ke, etc. Anime originals have especially suffered, from obscure stuff like Godannar and Divergence Eve to ones as mainstream as Gundam which started with multiple 4-cour seasons to 2 2-cour seasons to 2 1-cour seasons and the latest was a 1-cour 1-and-done.

While at a glance, it looks as if the quality of the mainstream series indicates better resource management by the industry, as you say yourself there's plenty of filler (and those mainstream series aren't that much better anyways--or a new phenomenon, as boutique studios like Madhouse and Ghibli have been around since before the real estate bubble). Rather, good human capital is becoming increasingly scarce while total industry resources balloon and the organization thereof worsens due to dependence on Twitter for networking. They simply can't afford to run a series year round anymore, and with those same limitations comes the risk aversion that has strangled creative expression across the entire totem pole.

>>280371549
>Here’s why: it’s not here to be good. It's the default you’ll watch it until the next Prime-Time show returns.
I never understood people that watch something to kill time. Just do something productive or watch something you actually enjoy. It makes even less sense now that everybody has internet and access to everything.

>>280373645
People are stupid. Is it really news for you?

>>280373540
>good human capital is becoming increasingly scarce
Sometimes I get dizzy looking at the staff of a single series of old
Picrel had, in the same project
>Dezaki Osamu
>Oga Kazuo
>Kawajiri Yoshiaki
>Kondou Yoshifumi
>Nakamura Eiichi
>Shibayama Tsutomu
>Yamashita Takeo
>Kataoka Youzou
>Mizutani Toshiharu
>Wakana Akio
And many more
Imagine a comparable line-up today
Would it even be possibile in modern day anime industry?

>>280372607
Didn't know it was a success in Japan. Seemed to be dead in the west which only proves yet again that western shit taste is at least partly responsible for shitty industry.

>>280373891
>Didn't know it was a success in Japan
It was a "moderate" commercial success, in the sense that it was much more successful than expected from such a niche series (about 2600 BD sold in the first week and was the 9th most sold BD on release) and had a decent financial return, but it was a HUGE critical success.

>>280373849
OP is kind of right, too much shit airing. If you have like 20 really talented people but 200 series a year only every tenth series AT BEST can have one of them. And anime take time to make, so it's actually less because they might be working on the same series for years.
Look at how often Trigger is airing anything or how many episodes per year have Kai Ikarashi's name on them. Same with Kyoani. Even if the content is bland the animation is always top tier, and now how many series they make per year, even if you look back before the fire attack.

It would simply be better to halve the mass of series and focus on the ones that are made and do them properly instead of producing run-of-the-mill shit with horrific deadlines. Maybe the majority are like those anons in the season-threads that watch 53 series per season, I am not sure. But I rarely watch more than four anime these days, for the reasons I mentioned.

>>280374131
>It would simply be better to halve the mass of series
That's not how the market operates
The shareholders will never risk a 1% profit loss for one term in exchange for the possibility of a 10% profit four terms later
They'd rather keep the bubble of overproduction with minimal but steady return

>>280374131
This. The issue isn't just that of anime is low-effort shovelware. The real disease is that the only alternative the market tolerates is ultra-curated boutique prestige shows that monopolize resources, talent, attention, and industry momentum each series, for years as they go at a crawling pace.
What's missing is the middle. The actual meat of an industry. The AA-tier shows with consistent art direction, well-paced writing, decent animation, and no expectation of cult status where new talent can improve.
And yes, to get that you need to cut half of the shows.

>>280374951
The government should do something about it.

>>280374951
>where new talent can improve.
Where the tweeners would be under the guide of some semi-retired legendary but not hot stuff anymore director's passion project. And learn.
In the current system, you either get:
>Thrown into the slop factory, grinding tween frames for 8 Isekai per season, probably quitting after 2 years with carpal tunnel and a mental breakdown,
>or thrown into prestige hell, working on a "once-in-a-generation" project that's killing everyone on the team and will be delayed four years because nobody wants to say "no" to a show that must be perfect.

There's no ladder anymore. No space where a second-key animator gets to do layout work under the supervision of a semi-retired legend who’s just vibing with a 1.5-cour sci-fi character drama for fun.
The 2000s middle was full of that. You'd get some forgotten Madhouse OVA directed by an old Gainax dude no one's talked about since 1997, and half the current Sakugabooru darlings were cutting their teeth there doing cool shots without the weight of the spotlight on their necks.

>>280374275
Shareholders unironically ruin everything. They're probably the main reason for wars as well.

>>280375066
>The government should do something about it.
irrc they've rejected worker rights and opposed syndicate for artist for decades.
Good salaries and working conditions would half the anime output almost immediately.

>>280375170
>>Thrown into the slop factory, grinding tween frames for 8 Isekai per season, probably quitting after 2 years with carpal tunnel and a mental breakdown,
Not an animator but every job I had the last 12 years was exactly the same, maybe the world is just doomed in general. Most companies are fine with producing trash and only employ the absolute minimum of people to exploit them until they quit for burnout and search for the next victims. Meanwhile the quitters usually stay out of a job for a while due to burnout, boreout or other mental issues which further fucks everything up for everyone.

>>280373196
It's based on a centuries-old fairy tail. Biwa doesn't even exist there, not to mention all the other changes.

>>280375426
I think one of the most intense reality checks you can get is that you grow thinking animators become extremely fast at drawing to output on time... then you learn they don't and those drawings still take like an hour each. They just sleep less.

I'm personally a big fan of 52 episode shows.

>>280375562
It's an historical epic based on real facts
And still, the anime is an adaptation, even with the changes I wouldn't call it an original script

There's something to be said about how it's hard to really get attached to an anime when it seems to exist in such a temporary state. It shows up every 4 years for 10 episodes and then disappears again. 4 years is a lot of time to just stop giving a shit about something unless you decide to read the manga. Those endless 100+ anime might be unsustainable nowadays but they definitely did a good job at supplying a fanbase with a steady stream of shit for them to obsess over, even if it was just to bitch and moan about it.

>>280373849
Yeah, but they weren't that special then for the most part.
>30 animes per year.
They were bound to clash.

>>280375924
B.... but Sakuga every episode!

>>280375924
What about stuff like Kimetsu no Yaiba and Boku no Hero?
They do seasonal content right, actually coming back every year. KNY started airing while the manga was near it's end and BnH is not far behind from it's source material. Meanwhile you had to wait near 3 years to get a movie in Chainsaw Man and that would still leave you halfway trough part 1.

>>280375968
>they weren't that special then for the most part
Dezaki already directed Ashita no Joe and Ace wo Nerae
Everybody else yeah, they were just blossoming in their career

>>280375170
>second-key
You should just have one. Having two or three different artists cleaning up each others' work before it even gets to the AD, never developing the skill to draw anything neatly and efficiently on their own, is one of the biggest problems with the current animation pipeline.

>>280375605
Yeah as a drawfag I noticed this myself. Always thought that you would get fast at some point, but you only get better not faster. Most artists that get incredibly good become slow as fuck or incapable of drawing at some point. It happened to my favorite comic artist and it happened to Miura, Hagiwara, Tsukushi and others. Your professional eye, pride and perfectionism grow with your experience, so you only draw the best you can do because you can see all the imperfections if you don't.

>>280375924
Yeah. I noticed that with all of my obsession I needed at least 6 episodes until I got truly into it. There is a difference between realising that a series is good and actually becoming a fan of the story, world and characters. Especially the latter need time and so does the fanbase. If there is a fanbase and fanworks it's more engaging but art takes time and fandoms must thrive.

Metallic Rouge is the perfect example for I am sure it would be a 9/10 anime because contains everything I love but it fell flat for the low episode count that forced them to pace through the developments and rush from plot point to plot point, before you could even feel anything. It also made characters come off as random or stupid since 180° turns happened too fucking fast.

>>280377297
>it happened to Miura
Kek there was a story from one of his assistant that Miura was so fucking happy to change the production to digital 'cause it would help to smooth the experience. A soon as possible he got a crash course and learned fast as fuck how to use the digital tools to drawn.
They left him alone for the weekend and after 72 hours they found him working on the same panel they left him three days prior, GOING PIXEL BY PIXEL
>See, I can be much more precise with my details now
And this is why Berserk got even slower

>>280371583
Anime sucks we're all losers

>>280377515
Yeah it's a genuine issue with digital drawing. So many options. You can resize and redraw something, move it, can add every type of color or shading and zoom in almost endlessly. You can always make it even better and this is a blessing and a curse because you want your shit to look as good as possible, but there is always some detail that could be even better (or so you think, after drawing and staring at it for 30h). You should just call it a day at some point but that's easier said than done. Many artists (myself included) think "you worked on this for 15h, you might as well extend it to 17h and make it perfect".
I think the better artists are the worse it gets which is why it's primarily the super detailed seinen mangaka that get burnouts from this.

>>280379339
Digital is definitely a trap. Forget drawing pixel by pixel, I think it has something to do with screen resolution and texture that makes drafting take longer with flatter results than working on paper where your eyes can work at their full capacity unassisted.

>>280379339
In my experience, those are things you'll usually want to do traditionally as well, but a couple keystrokes can accomplish a correction that would traditionally take redoing the whole image. Layers are especially a relieving, but most of all, instantly picking a correct color is just too convenient compared to the royal pain of mixing acrylic by hand only for half of it to dry out before you're done. I think the only real solution is to be patient and accept the end result will look like shit, so do better next time.

>>280375924
>every 4 years
Not that common. It's just some of the bigger hits took that long like SnK, ReZero, OPM, Konosuba, etc. And they all clearly suffered for it.

>>280371880
go watch apocalypse hotel and tell me it doesnt stack up with the greats.

>>280372645
Decadence? that was great.

>>280375066
generally government just gets in the way of creative industries when they interfere. Itd do far more damage than good. The market will self-correct, if more people want AA-tier animes and support the ones that do, they'll make them.

For what its worth, Cygames seems to be filling this niche very well. I really can't shill Apocalypse Hotel enough.

>>280375924
They managed to pull off a long run with Black Clover until a mix of catching up with the manga, covid, and the author having issues that slowed it way down fucked it up. I think that was one of the last ones unless you count DQ Dai running longer than usual.

>>280371441 (OP)
those shows dont even have super high production values though