Thread 280596949 - /a/ [Archived: 304 hours ago]

Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:09:01 PM No.280596949
Marin and Gojo
Marin and Gojo
md5: cdab2859ef22e624af6b9d7e73556415๐Ÿ”
>Feminine boy, masculine girl
Why is this dichotomy so popular?
Replies: >>280596975 >>280597000 >>280597017 >>280597179 >>280597233 >>280597326 >>280597388 >>280597401 >>280597440 >>280597499 >>280597554 >>280597582 >>280597678 >>280597684 >>280597793 >>280597830 >>280598088 >>280598602 >>280601049 >>280601362 >>280601643 >>280602188 >>280602457 >>280602701 >>280602785 >>280602788 >>280603717 >>280605607 >>280606289 >>280606578 >>280606608 >>280606769 >>280608666 >>280609208
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:09:40 PM No.280596975
>>280596949 (OP)
women like it.
Replies: >>280605634
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:10:17 PM No.280597000
>>280596949 (OP)
Pic unrelated?
Replies: >>280597086 >>280601963
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:10:38 PM No.280597017
>>280596949 (OP)
>Gojou is feminine
>MARIN is masculine
Delicious bait. I'll add some spice to it.
Replies: >>280597086 >>280597554 >>280597640
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:11:03 PM No.280597029
On what fucking universe is Marin masculine
Kill yourself for wasting my time
Replies: >>280597086
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:12:45 PM No.280597086
>>280597029
>>280597000
>>280597017
She's less emotionally fragile than Gojo.
Replies: >>280597502 >>280597812 >>280597968 >>280602085 >>280604397 >>280608691
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:15:53 PM No.280597179
>>280596949 (OP)
Read Otto Weininger's Sex and Character to find out. Basically the ideal relationship between a man and woman would have their masculine and feminine qualities be balanced by the other. So if a man is 60% masculine, 40% feminine, his ideal partner would be a woman who is 60% feminine, 40% masculine.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:17:42 PM No.280597233
>>280596949 (OP)
Would Gojo be in the cuck chair if Marin asked him to be?
Replies: >>280597292 >>280597336
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:19:29 PM No.280597292
>>280597233
no, he already tells her to fuck off when she tries to hug him or kiss him in public
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:20:25 PM No.280597326
>>280596949 (OP)
because the state wants women to be more masculine (obligation ridden put your chin up) and men to be more effeminate (non-threatening, meek, subservient)
top that off with "have babies despite us doing everything in our power to make that unviable" you have the perfect mix of a clusterfuck made by good brother idiots
Replies: >>280597729
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:20:38 PM No.280597336
>>280597233
we went through this yesterday
he would be sitting in seiza
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:22:04 PM No.280597388
1751755384028_thumb.jpg
1751755384028_thumb.jpg
md5: 2d36c70feddc8c79ca4abdcdcf7f92bd๐Ÿ”
>>280596949 (OP)
I wouldn't call him โ€˜'feminineโ€™' specifically, he's just gay.
Replies: >>280597530 >>280597834 >>280606266
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:22:23 PM No.280597401
>>280596949 (OP)
It's popular because she's a character that falls in love with(YOU) for being a loser, but that's not all, for the women she's (YOU) for being forward with everything she loves without being judged, loved by everyone and is a 11/10 in beauty. Tldr this show is for self insert faggots. Probably why it's so shitty.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:23:39 PM No.280597440
>>280596949 (OP)
I cannot stand the sub translation of this show. I canโ€™t believe Iโ€™m saying this but itโ€™s too cringey for even me. Is the dub any better?
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:24:01 PM No.280597457
something to do with shit parents
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:25:42 PM No.280597499
>>280596949 (OP)
Can I make it any more obvious?
He played with dolls
She did cosplay
What more can I say?
Replies: >>280597790
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:25:46 PM No.280597502
>>280597086
Lol you have not read the manga.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:26:40 PM No.280597530
>>280597388
>literally masturbates thinking of her
>gets a hard on when she sits on his lap
>gay
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:27:10 PM No.280597554
>>280596949 (OP)
>>280597017
Let me correct it.
It should have been
>Assertive female, cuck male
Basically women wearing pants in the relationship
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:28:01 PM No.280597582
1650302505675
1650302505675
md5: 9afc3e494652e7c4fcc68d22925f658d๐Ÿ”
>>280596949 (OP)
what if bisque doll
but gender bender
Replies: >>280604193
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:30:09 PM No.280597640
>>280597017
Wakana is a girl's name, and Wakana would rather play with dolls than fuck his childhood friend.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:31:32 PM No.280597678
>>280596949 (OP)
>masculine Marin
Marin is feminine sheโ€™s cosplaying one of the most feminine things imaginable. The point more is that sewing and doll making being feminine doesnโ€™t matter women like guys who are good at stuff and even other guys thinks itโ€™s impressive to have a talent
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:31:49 PM No.280597684
>>280596949 (OP)
Extreme losers ended up becoming anime and manga's primary demographic over the past two decades, so it mostly appeals to faggots, femcels and mindbroken, emasculated degenerates these days.
Replies: >>280597927
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:32:58 PM No.280597729
>>280597326
It's weird how 4chan, particularly /a/, ended up becoming more feminist, gay and emasculated than mainstream society, despite the fact that this place used to be known for rejecting that shit.
Replies: >>280597823 >>280597967 >>280601531 >>280601848
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:35:17 PM No.280597790
>>280597499
don't you make me go on a 00s music binge for the next few hours
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:35:21 PM No.280597793
>>280596949 (OP)
AGP + AAP.
Replies: >>280597822
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:35:54 PM No.280597812
>>280597086
>masculine girl
???
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:36:20 PM No.280597822
>>280597793
>AGP + AAP?
Replies: >>280597999
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:36:22 PM No.280597823
>>280597729
>more feminist
objectively and statistically false
>gay
always was
>emasculated
happens when you're an autist and don't go to IT
Replies: >>280598019
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:36:28 PM No.280597830
>>280596949 (OP)
blame saint seiya
Replies: >>280597880
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:36:40 PM No.280597834
>>280597388
He's worse than gay. A gay man would have taken the candy stick with his hand and told her he's not interested, instead this guy steps back and shakes like a faggot.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:38:19 PM No.280597880
>>280597830
>the most homo erotic show where the teacher is surpassed early on and women are shown as vile cunts while men are shown as ride or die bros and femboys (shun)
>making men feminine
if seeing shun made you feminine instead of macho gay you were a troon from the start anon
Replies: >>280606887
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:39:58 PM No.280597927
1603660327762
1603660327762
md5: 1c2e01548e533bf1cbb81a4da1192069๐Ÿ”
>>280597684
>over the past two decades
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:41:20 PM No.280597967
>>280597729
>gay
Yurichads are literally the straightest men to ever exist, though.
It's impossible to be into men and also like yuri. Chocolate bars, and so on.
Replies: >>280605081
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:41:22 PM No.280597968
>>280597086
Emotion is masculine, you've been lied to by (((them))).
Replies: >>280602792
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:42:28 PM No.280597999
>>280597822
Ignorance is bliss, anon.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:43:12 PM No.280598019
>>280597823
>>more feminist
>objectively and statistically false
/a/ is definitely more feminist than other boards, at least.
Replies: >>280598077
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:45:34 PM No.280598077
>>280598019
being a simp that thinks you'll get laid by nodding to women and being a feminist are two different things anon, /a/ users would say they're a woman if it meant getting laid
Replies: >>280598131
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:45:56 PM No.280598088
>>280596949 (OP)
I'm a pathetic loser but I'm nice. I hope a cute gyaru somehow talked to me instead of her chad and stacy friends!
Replies: >>280604397
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:47:07 PM No.280598131
>>280598077
I've seen people here have actual arguments about female autonomy and rights.
Replies: >>280598219 >>280598401
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:50:03 PM No.280598219
>>280598131
in which thread did that topic ever come out naturally mr author?
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:51:52 PM No.280598273
ill let you in on a little secret, 99% of guys don't have time or interest to think about womens problems, most men have enough problems of their own and are too busy trying to crawl out of the gutter or get laid to worry about women complaining about companies underpaying them
Replies: >>280607726
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:56:09 PM No.280598401
>>280598131
That guy? He is some tranny leftist tourists. /pol/ also has some leftists and jews in it.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 7:03:33 PM No.280598602
>>280596949 (OP)
>gyaru
>masculine
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 8:23:15 PM No.280601049
1728671098651439
1728671098651439
md5: 05744bbcab6a0e03b4fc06aa16ec24d3๐Ÿ”
>>280596949 (OP)
Interest of the other half makes it popular
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 8:33:40 PM No.280601362
>>280596949 (OP)
Ain't no way you seriously a gyaru who loves to flaunt her female form and girlishly fawns over Gorou is a masculine girl... There's no way you're serious, right?
Replies: >>280601850
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 8:38:49 PM No.280601531
>>280597729
>/a/, ended up becoming more feminist, gay and emasculated than mainstream society
>place that consumes thing that is filled to the brim with gay shit becomes gay as fuck
How are you surprised at all?
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 8:42:04 PM No.280601643
marin poses_thumb.jpg
marin poses_thumb.jpg
md5: d5bc52dfea5502183fa7d72a8d8875ea๐Ÿ”
>>280596949 (OP)
what's masculine about Marin?
Replies: >>280601850 >>280601901 >>280602755 >>280602837 >>280605796
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 8:48:28 PM No.280601848
>>280597729
Nornalfags going insane doesn't we also don't reject normalfags as they used to be. You can fuck right off with them.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 8:48:33 PM No.280601850
>>280601362
>>280601643
She's assertive, confident, and outspoken.
Replies: >>280601934 >>280602869 >>280602871 >>280607608
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 8:49:46 PM No.280601901
>>280601643
OP wants to gaslight you into thinking having a body made for sex is masculine.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 8:51:01 PM No.280601934
>>280601850
Plenty of women have always been like that. I'm reading a novel from the early 20th century where the man, despite being strong and tall, is kept on his toes by the girl he loves. Only troons in the making think men or women have their masculinity and femininity defined by these things.
Replies: >>280602184
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 8:51:52 PM No.280601963
>>280597000
spbp
Replies: >>280602184
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 8:55:49 PM No.280602085
>>280597086
emotional fragility is largely a masculine trait
Replies: >>280607803
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 8:58:48 PM No.280602184
>>280601934
>>280601963
Please go outside
Replies: >>280602399
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 8:59:02 PM No.280602188
1624159292413
1624159292413
md5: 1dbfbe61979961a894d1652023b626f3๐Ÿ”
>>280596949 (OP)
Masculine girls don't exist. Masculinity is a dominant trait that comes with the Y chromosome. Girls (XX) only have feminine sex chromosomes. Tomboys aren't masculine, they're unapologetically human and simply not that feminine, which makes them pass as boys (whose masculinity is still a work in progress). And Marin of all people is extremely feminine.
Replies: >>280602244 >>280602390
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:00:28 PM No.280602244
>>280602188
>Masculinity is a dominant trait that comes with the Y chromosome
But the Y chromosome is a defective X.
Replies: >>280602258
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:01:05 PM No.280602258
>>280602244
You sure?
Replies: >>280602366
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:04:46 PM No.280602366
>>280602258
yes
Replies: >>280602677
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:05:45 PM No.280602390
>>280602188
How is Marin extremely feminine?
Replies: >>280602677
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:06:19 PM No.280602399
>>280602184
Try spending time with people instead of gawking at them like a faggot.
Replies: >>280602717
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:08:20 PM No.280602457
>>280596949 (OP)
>feminine girl, masculine boy
why is this dicktoktomy so popular?
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:14:57 PM No.280602677
>>280602366
My condolences.
>>280602390
Use your eyes.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:15:43 PM No.280602701
>>280596949 (OP)
>asocial hyper-competent giga autistic tailor built like a shoujo character, who only has eyes for Marin and works day and night to make cosplays for her purely just to make her happy
Gojo is literally a fanservice character, in a series dedicated to a woman who was sad her husband thought her cosplay hobby was stupid.
Maybe you're confused because you've heard various types of snake oil salesmen told you that promiscuity and lack of self-awareness and impulse control is what masculinity is.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:16:17 PM No.280602717
>>280602399
If your woman "keeps you on your toes" she keeps your nuts in a purse. I hope she ends up stabbing you too.
Replies: >>280603014
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:17:31 PM No.280602755
>>280601643
Who the hell is letting a teen cosplay with all that crap? May as well add in alcohol.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:18:29 PM No.280602785
file
file
md5: 4d59dbb38b405bbb548fcb5fb02bf3ec๐Ÿ”
>>280596949 (OP)
Completely made-up dichotomy
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:18:35 PM No.280602788
>>280596949 (OP)
>masculine
How the hell is Marin masculine?
Replies: >>280602869
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:18:38 PM No.280602792
>>280597968
This isn't about not having emotions. Emotional strength is masculine.
Replies: >>280608216
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:20:05 PM No.280602837
>>280601643
>what's masculine about Marin?
Her dick in OPs ass.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:21:05 PM No.280602869
>>280602788
See >>280601850
She's pretty domineering.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:21:05 PM No.280602871
>>280601850
...you don't talk to women, don't you?
Replies: >>280603391
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:24:56 PM No.280603014
>>280602717
Women can be playful, cheeky, outgoing, energetic, expressive, etc, and this can contrast a man's energy without either of them compromising on their masculinity and femininity. You can keep being mad about it, but people that don't abide by your worldview of faux-normality have existed and will continue to exist.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:35:36 PM No.280603391
>>280602871
I'm reading Danganronpa 3 and the most traditionally feminine characters - Kaede, Tsumugi, Angie, maybe Miu - are all nurturing, sweet, and demure.
Replies: >>280604112
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:45:47 PM No.280603717
>>280596949 (OP)
>Marin
>Masculine
She couldnโ€™t be more hyper-feminine if she tried.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 9:58:01 PM No.280604112
>>280603391
...you just prove my point.
Replies: >>280604402
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 10:00:45 PM No.280604193
>>280597582
I love how proud Marin is of her stupid ahegao shirt.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 10:06:58 PM No.280604397
>>280597086
Wait till they adapt the scene of her collapsing because she runs a perfect simulation on her mind of how he would ghost her if she confessed, animeonly

>>280598088
You also don't have talents that are used in a traditional craft of your country, you have no goals in life, and you won't inherit a business
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 10:07:05 PM No.280604402
>>280604112
What?
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 10:15:14 PM No.280604672
inosai
inosai
md5: 70816369e5eaff069baa823bc363dfc4๐Ÿ”
They fit, kinda
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 10:27:38 PM No.280605081
>>280597967
>Yuri defense outta nowhere
Methinks the lady doth protest too hard
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 10:44:09 PM No.280605607
>>280596949 (OP)
Because boys are faggots. Or should be.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 10:45:10 PM No.280605634
>>280596975
Also this. Gynocracy anโ€™ all that.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 10:49:52 PM No.280605796
>>280601643
>social media whore

Empowered strong woman.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:07:43 PM No.280606266
>>280597388
There's no way you fags actually think women find this attractive, right?
Replies: >>280606383 >>280606397
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:08:44 PM No.280606289
1729968840386899_thumb.jpg
1729968840386899_thumb.jpg
md5: 3938499b4ad8d53cf1fd291f579220e1๐Ÿ”
>>280596949 (OP)
how do i get a real gf like marin
Replies: >>280606320
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:09:55 PM No.280606320
>>280606289
By being Chad
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:12:18 PM No.280606383
>>280606266
what are you talking about? the male lead? gojo is over 180cm tall, has hands large enough to full encompass a gyaru's waist, seemingly very high level talent as a tailor/seamstress, actually has goals and dreams, extremely caring and relatively safe to be around for a 15yo boy... why wouldn't women find that attractive? why do you pretend like you understand what goes on in the minds of chaotic creatures like women?
Replies: >>280606424 >>280606641
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:12:38 PM No.280606397
>>280606266
"STOP LIKING GIRLS THAT'S GAY ONLY LIKE THE GIRLS I LIKE"
Replies: >>280606641
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:13:19 PM No.280606424
>>280606383
not to mention his design skills too...
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:18:42 PM No.280606578
>>280596949 (OP)
Marin is masculine Lmao, it seems like the anon doesn't even know what a woman is anymore.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:19:50 PM No.280606608
>>280596949 (OP)
Seems to me more like an extrovert girl and an introvert boy.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:21:02 PM No.280606641
>>280606383
Look at how he's acting in that webm. You can't honestly tell me women find that behavior attractive.
>why do you pretend like you understand what goes on in the minds of chaotic creatures like women?
We can look at the audience and fanbase and we can compare Gojo to male characters who actually have a lot of female fans which gives evidence that Gojo is not popular with women.
>>280606397
What the fuck are you talking about?
Replies: >>280606758
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:26:19 PM No.280606758
>>280606641
but Gojo is popular with women, anon.
Replies: >>280606912 >>280606981
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:26:39 PM No.280606769
>>280596949 (OP)
but gojo looks like one of those huge dudes from a shojo manga
Replies: >>280607013
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:30:39 PM No.280606887
>>280597880

u mad?
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:31:36 PM No.280606912
>>280606758
nta but source?
I would think he acts too pathetic
Replies: >>280606941
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:32:32 PM No.280606941
>>280606912
women like it when men are interested in things
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:34:18 PM No.280606981
>>280606758
Sono Bisque Doll isn't even popular with women. And the ones who do like it for Marin and probably don't even read the series.
Replies: >>280607098
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:35:18 PM No.280607013
>>280606769
Too bad he acts nothing like them. He's also not as attractive.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:38:44 PM No.280607098
>>280606981
It's not men reading or watching Sono Bisque. There is nothing here for us.
Replies: >>280607226 >>280607399
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:43:14 PM No.280607226
Sono Bisque Doll reader demographics
Sono Bisque Doll reader demographics
md5: a12c33f985f2d3bb8b6183a4c8e8eedd๐Ÿ”
>>280607098
Wrong
Replies: >>280607272
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:44:57 PM No.280607272
>>280607226
Completely made up metrics aside, cuckolds aren't men either.
Replies: >>280607547
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:48:53 PM No.280607399
marin turns around_thumb.jpg
marin turns around_thumb.jpg
md5: 0dfe5446514dde467d955fccda8f8d8a๐Ÿ”
>>280607098
there's certainly something here
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:55:13 PM No.280607547
>>280607272
>Completely made up
https://web.archive.org/web/20200131141434/https://hon-hikidashi.jp/enjoy/100863/
>cuckolds aren't men either.
Oh shut the fuck up. You know that's not what we're talking about. The majority of the audience is male.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 11:57:14 PM No.280607608
>>280601850
Like women can't take charge and switch during downtime or sex?
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 12:01:21 AM No.280607726
>>280598273
>worry about women complaining about companies overpaying them
Fixed that for you. Women get WAY more money statistically for the lower hours they put in. So much so that the actual discrimination court cases showed men were getting shafted in pay. And it's especially clear in sports where they bring in way less money and sales compared to the men overall but get paid way fucking more per sale/ticket. They just want you to buy into this narrative so they can get more unearned money for being DEI hires. And people (and courts) fall for it all the time. Till it backfires and all the female make work jobs get deleted by AI.
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 12:03:55 AM No.280607803
>>280602085
You must have been fed propaganda. Emotional fragility is mostly a feminine trait.
Replies: >>280608216
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 12:16:19 AM No.280608216
>>280602792
>>280607803
Physical strength is masculine, emotional strength is feminine. It's the same principle as brain vs. brawn; women are statistically more intelligent than men and men are statistically stronger than women. Mothers have to be able to manage the household well and fathers have to be strong enough to protect their families.
Replies: >>280608623 >>280608705 >>280610262
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 12:31:31 AM No.280608623
>>280608216
Dumbest feminist cope
There's a reason no female led government or company succeeds in the long run because women are hormonal and unstable. You cannot leave any decisions to them when it's that risky. So no, they aren't more intelligent simply because of their physiological superpower to completely undo any good they do when the monthly clock comes ticking
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 12:33:05 AM No.280608666
>>280596949 (OP)
how the fuck is marin masculine???
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 12:34:06 AM No.280608691
IMG_5397
IMG_5397
md5: 214f4384959093da01aabe54b560fed6๐Ÿ”
>>280597086
>Cries when sick, thinking she was going to die
Replies: >>280608735
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 12:34:35 AM No.280608705
>>280608216
Physical strength is masculine that's true.
Empathy is feminine, not emotional strength. Women are more neurotic than men.
Intelligence wise men and women are about the same, the only difference is in distribution - women are more clustered around the mean, while comparatively there are more men on both edges of the bell curve
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 12:35:33 AM No.280608735
>>280608691
Anyone got a cry counter for Marin?
Replies: >>280608848
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 12:39:34 AM No.280608848
>>280608735
No but there should be
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 12:54:27 AM No.280609208
>>280596949 (OP)
NOTHING of good comes from a women wearing the pants in a relationship, you were warned.
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 1:35:22 AM No.280610262
>>280608216
You do know the father is the head of the household? Men are the ones who have to take charge, keep their emotions and fear under control, stay strong, and solve problems. "Protecting their families" takes a lot of emotional strength.