Thread 280761444

Slam Dunk became a paradigm for sports manga.
One Piece became a paradigm for adventure manga.
Dragon Ball became a paradigm for fighting manga.
Naruto became a paradigm for ninja manga.

And Demon Slayer? Did it become a paradigm for samurai manga? A title that reaches 220 million copies must have done something unique that no one else has done.

>>280761444 (OP)
Economic benefits.

>>280761776
Is this manga's greatest legacy commercial rather than artistic? An example of how good advertising can achieve anything?

>>280761444 (OP)
>dragon ball
>paradigm
zoomers don’t know that, and the moro arc isn’t animated which means the ip is dead.

>>280761444 (OP)
You lost

>>280763692
Everybody knows that.
>Moro arc
Who's talking about Dragon Ball Shitter?
>>280764181
I just asked a question.

>>280761444 (OP)
Nothing. It's just another commercial shounen that followed every trope, every cliche, and every beat by the book but brings nothing to the table. If not this manga, then normalfags would lock onto another bog standard battle shounen
CSM is far more influential for better or worse

>>280764303
The only influence ChainSloppa has is unleashing better series by better mangaka upon the world.

>>280763692
Nobody cares about cuckofucko's fanfiction

Brought shounen back to it's roots.

>>280762002
I mean outside of it selling a lot and the anime what do people really talk about?

>>280765785
In what sense?

>>280766026
Pure good vs evil classical tale with a healthy dose of Japan wank.

>>280762002
I mean thats exactly what all shonen try to be. Shonen has never really been about art, they’re products. Regardless of quality the best thing a manga can be is profitable.

>>280765785
Tozuka did with Undead Unluck and none of you fucking read it.

>>280766115
>Pure good vs evil classical tale with a healthy dose of Japan wank.
Was already a thing before Demon Slayer, you just don't look good enough. It brought nothing new to the table. Normalfags just locked on to it because of Netflix from the pandemic.

If not that, then they would just pick another shounen slop. Just like how they would pick another Korean fantasy in Solo Leveling's place.

>>280766424
Didnt say Demon Slayer invented it.

>>280761444 (OP)
It's the Avatar of manga and anime. Made a shit ton of money, extremely well-known and read/watched by almost everyone, but little to none artistic legacy. And I say this as someone who enjoy it for what it is

>>280766424
I don’t understand all the mental gymnastics DS fans do to just say they like eye candy with derivative shoe string plots. Like its fine…thats what shonen usually is anyways.

>>280766115
>Pure good vs evil classical tale
Yeah, remember when Frieza had a tragic flashback before he died? Good old times.

Demon Slayer only achieved all this fame thanks to its flashy and emotional manipulative animation.

>>280766619
What mental gymnastics? And how many times are we going to have WhY iT PopULar threads?

>>280766791
> And how many times are we going to have WhY iT PopULar threads?
OP here. I didn't ask that. I want to know the consequences not the causes.

>>280766115
>Pure good vs evil classical tale.
This was already the norm.

>>280766115
>Pure good vs evil classical tale
if that were true there wouldn't be so many backstories

>>280766350
Undead Unluck is more original than Demon Slayer tho.

>>280761444 (OP)
The ultimate legacy of Demon Slayer is going to be that it cemented the Sakuga Gold Rush that saw companies dumping a ton of effort and money into more visually explosive scenes in such a way that they essentially dominated the landscape of the entire industry for half a decade now. When people look back on this era in Anime they're going to centralize on the fact that got a lot more effort put into the purely visuals than previous iterations. The two examples they'll probably use as sort of a litmus test of the changing of generations are going to be post Cake Island One Piece and Bleach's return. Animation that used to be reserved for the non-canon movies is now commonplace in adaptations like Jujustu Kaisen, and ones that failed to adapt saw their own popularity dwindle and fade rapidly.

Demon Slayer episode 19 taking the internet by storm and leading to a fuckton of sales is how we got a MT adaptation that didn't skimp on the details and a non-ghibli movie that finally crossed into being a 300 million plus worldwide hit, with a likely second one that just released and who knows how the other 2 are going to do. Demon Slayer as a manga isn't going to be the go to ur example for samurai vs demons, but it is going to be the example a lot of people use when pointing out how a visually enriching style can carry an otherwise safe but well done manga into popularity.

>>280767063
It’s probably why nobody cares about it. Normies don’t like exiting their comfort zones.

>>280767111
>it is going to be the example a lot of people use when pointing out how a visually enriching style can carry an otherwise safe but well done manga into popularity.
In other words, no legacy since the "visually enriching style" is an anime thing.
>well done manga
Repetitive plots, excessive infodumps, excessive flashbacks and asspulls are now good writing?

>>280766791
There’s literally no good argument for DSs popularity other than visual spectacle and ease of access. Anything else is dishonesty, its not rational, its mental gymnastics.

>>280761444 (OP)
>Naruto became a paradigm for ninja manga
Did it? It inspired a bunch of shounen mangaka in general but I dont recall many ninja manga specifically.

Someone is going to make their anime original knockoff of it like Kabaneri tried to do with Attack on Titan, and they'll probably fuck it up similarly.

Nobody ever really recaptured Star Wars despite it seeming like it was the easiest fairytale thing in the world.

>>280767353
>Shonen
>Good writing
Oh you sweet summer child

>>280767407
>Visual spectacle
But the manga art sucks.

>>280761444 (OP)
You are better off asking the Japanese.

>>280767477
I think he means DS in general. Including the anime.

>>280767477
> But the manga art sucks.
Lol. In many such cases.

>>280761444 (OP)
Frieren became a paragon of fantasy manga.

>>280761444 (OP)
Bleach but more successful

>>280767572
But OP is talking about manga

>>280761444 (OP)
Saving Japanese traditional performance

>>280766930
So were adventure and fighting manga.

>>280767645
Hes not replying to OP

>>280767353
>In other words, no legacy since the "visually enriching style" is an anime thing.
If you don't think changing how an entire industry does business for the next half to full decade is "A legacy", then sure. We're already seeing the shifts now in how they do theatrical movies with Red being soft-canonized just so that it tied into the actual narrative of the show and JJK 0 being full canon, it's only going to keep going on that trajectory from here. Dragon Ball Z in the 90's shifted the entire industry into making Non-canon spinoff movies that are essentially just glorified tech demo super short filler arcs that continued up pretty much until very, very recently. Mugen Train's surprise success and Infinity Castle's likewise very strong start(who knows how it'll ultimately do) has almost certainly caused a shift that's going to last quite a long time, as the Isekai trend proved that once a train starts rolling it's actually hard to get it to stop, even if it becomes less viable overall.

This also means that when Manga adaptions happen, they'll likely shift from just getting the name out to boost light novels into trying to be more spectacle that'll boost manga sales with visuals alone, like MK recently gained. That's one hell of a legacy to succeed so hard your entire industry starts moving in the direction you paved.

>Repetitive plots, excessive infodumps, excessive flashbacks and asspulls are now good writing?
Pretty much, since most anime in the top 30 of multiple review rankings and sales charts have those traits, let alone how ubiquitous it is in the top 10. Cowboy Bebop may have gotten a giant ass loredump every start of every other episode and we've seen enough flashbacks from everyone to make a whole ass filler arc, but you're gonna struggle to find people who leave it off at least the top 10. Ultimately the nature of the medium, and hardly relegated to Anime. You know how much bullshit Breaking Bad pulled out just to make things happen?

>>280767689
It doesnt explain the 200m in circulation though

>>280767717
All of that has nothing to do with the Demon Slayer manga as a standalone product and more to do with Ufotable's eye candy animation.

Animation also gets better and more advanced every year, it was bound to happen, with or without Ufotable.

Demon Slayer really feels like a manga that caters so hard to the Japanese that the rest of the world is missing something in translation as to what makes it so special to them.

>>280767744
Anime, COVID, Mainstream news coverage. Supply comes from demand, demand can be manufactured.

>>280767831
Well theres no japs on this site, so I guess we will never know

>>280767825
>All of that has nothing to do with the Demon Slayer manga as a standalone product and more to do with Ufotable's eye candy animation
Demon Slayer's success was absolutely twofold, one part being the visual spectacle of the anime bringing in eyes to a manga who otherwise very well may never have caught on, but ultimately it was the actual story itself that got people to keep reading after all, obviously. If it was just boring they'd wait for the anime adaptation, but the final arc blew the rails off the sales. That's not something you get because you expect it'll eventually look good. When I say it's shifting the industry, I very much don't just mean in terms of anime and animation looking flashy, it's also shifting who's getting what investment and what that means for manga overall too. I believe Kaiju Number 8 is our most recent example of a manga made specifically to cater to trying to lightning rod that same success, with scenes obviously made specifically to show up visually booming on a screen because ultimately that's what they were aiming for. It's not just that animation studios are pumping more money into looks good.

>Animation also gets better and more advanced every year, it was bound to happen, with or without Ufotable.
Of course, but that's like saying cars would eventually take over the road one way or another. Doesn't change that when looking back, we cite the Model T.

>>280766304
Sure, but the point is that the manga mentioned could be something more.

>>280767831
I think if anything it's the opposite. It's quintessentially Japanese but in a way that is effortlessly approachable to even someone who doesn't know shit about ancient japan. There's really not a lot to get confused about in this. There's plenty of references people won't get, but honestly ask yourself how many people were questioning why there's a rope with paper on it around a boulder. Demon Slayer is to japanese movies what Micheal Bay movies are to chinese audiences. You don't need to know much about the place of origin to recognize cues and the story is so simple you never have to do any digging to figure out why the long hair demon has a weird guitar.

Demon Slayer managed to dumb everything just down enough you get people with funny swords vs weapon wielding wizard vampires.

>>280767831
Nah. The Japanese are mostly just normalfags, and like any other normalfag, the Japanese don't like exiting their comfort zones, and prefers things that are clean, safe, familiar and inoffensive. Shogun is one of the best portrayals of feudal Japan, but Japan dismissed it because it wasn't "theirs", and Nips HATE being out-Japan'd by foreigners.

Mind you, it's a TV show. But it should tell you this isn't a cultural clash. It's just the main product, the manga, just isn't very good like the Nips make it out to be.

>>280761444 (OP)
Honestly a hard question just talking about the manga. Artistically it doesn't excel in anything or innovate at all. And narratively its extremely derivative, basic, and underwhelming. Anything noteworthy about usually comes from outside sources. Anime, movies, ect.

>>280768136
Well yeah that much is obvious but KnY in Japan specifically is a cultural phenomenon. Everywhere else, its a popular anime.

>>280768306
>Well yeah that much is obvious but KnY in Japan specifically is a cultural phenomenon
It oldsold the entire US comics industry in their home country back in 2020 so it's very much a "It caught on everywhere"

>>280767831
There are details within the dialogue that were completely lost in translation. The way each character spoke was different depending on their background. There were little things like Shinobi who studied modern medicine is the only one who used modern measurement. The ways characters referred to each other were completely lost in translation too

>>280768341
I thought that was in the US

>>280763692
why isn't the moro arc animated??

>>280768136
>Demon Slayer is the Michael Bay movie of anime
oooh, it all makes sense now

>>280768382
...yes. The home country of the US comics industry is, indeed, the US.

>>280768168
They liked that Sony game about a samurai. Ghost of Tsushima, I think it was.

>>280761444 (OP)
As a manga its legacy is shrugging off the bloat of existing long-running battle shounen and delivering a story that focused first and foremost on espousing a message and feeling to its readers rather than getting fixated on universe building. Other big name shounen are only structurally competent within single arcs which leads to stuff like Naruto where it feels as though the series long overstayed its welcome but needs to keep going out of some sense of obligation. Kimetsu on the other hand feels like it builds and builds until the final arc which pays everything off. Everything seems structured to make its climax- and the author's message about death conveyed through the whole story- as potent as possible. The final epilogue that attributes a line to every Pillar is about as perfect a summation of this strength as it can get. You don't need 50 subplots to "give attention" to each side character. You just need to design the character in such a way that their involvement in the story actually speaks something to the reader.
Basically its legacy (if we're purely talking about the manga) is actually being a good story all the way through instead of a playground for fights that has pockets of goodness in it while also still capitalizing on all the cool factors of the battle shounen aesthetic. Hopefully other battle shounen can follow in its footsteps.

>>280768407
I thought we were still talking about Japan. Why would it outselling US comics make Japan go feral over it?

>>280768341
The US comic industry hasn’t been doing well for a long time. Not sure how big an accomplishment that is?

>>280768445
>so it's very much a "It caught on everywhere"
Everywhere meaning "Not just japan".

It didn't make Japs go feral over it, it proved the US very much was into it.
>>280768453
I mean objectively by any metric topping an entire homegrown variation of an industry is pretty fucking big, no? Even if sales sucked, it still brought in more people who made those sales not-suck that otherwise didn't give a fuck about the actual stuff their country knew and produces, like Batman or Spider-Man. If you can turn people from "Didn't read" to outselling the whole ass Diamond Market, you're succeeding.

>>280761444 (OP)
I don't know who Gotoge knows in the industry, but landing ufotable was the best move for his manga. Any other studio and it would not have landed the way it did.

>>280768441
> actually being a good story all the way through
Kek, lol, Lmao even
> instead of a playground for fights
double kek, double lol, double lmao even

>>280768525
Kinoko Nasu got it for him. He recommended kimetsu no yaiba on volume 10

>>280768019
>If it was just boring they'd wait for the anime adaptation
The Demon Slayer anime began when the manga was almost finished. Plus, wanting to collect a manga you discovered through an anime, regardless of its quality, is quite common.
>I believe Kaiju Number 8 is our most recent example of a manga made specifically to cater to trying to lightning rod that same success, with scenes obviously made specifically to show up visually booming on a screen
I haven't read Kaiju Number 8, but this is interesting. If you have more examples of manga doing that, then it could be considered DS legacy.

>>280768525
An Aniplex producer read it and wanted to adapt it

>>280768525
Nasu. And it wasn't Gotouge initiating. It was Nasu who specifically sought Kimetsu out because he enjoyed the series from the very beginning so much.
Any other studio and it would probably have been considered an /a/ darling and a pick as an underrated/underappreciated shounen. But thankfully it got a studio that was perfectly suited to take its strengths to the next level.

>>280761444 (OP)
Final nail in the coffin for long running battle shonen?

Its not really expected for non-Japanese to understand this but KnY speaks to the underlying nationalism of Japanese people at a time when Japan needs more nationalism. It's explicitly set in the Taisho period when Japan was its most nationalistic with a strong sense of self pride and the current government/US influence has been doing everything to hide/undermine it.
KnY is basically Sanseito in anime form and Japan (especially the younger demographic) instinctively yearns for stronger national pride.
Its also a short series so its easy for braindead normies to get in and out of.

>>280768341
>>280768382
>>280768453
>>280768507
I don't know how it was in 2020, but in 2019, when the anime "exploded", My Hero Academia took 19 positions out of the 20 best-selling mangas of the year.

>>280768598
I hope that guy is eating delicious wagyu steaks from now on.

>>280768614
>>280768648
I hope that this raises the ceiling on all battle shounens from now on. At the very least, the future will be "interesting premise with middling animation" as opposed to "interesting premise with shit animation".

>>280768507
The Japanese are obsessed with it to an unprecedented degree compared to other countries. I guess it just tickles their nationalism just right, like that Kokuho movie.

>>280768724
But DS as a whole says nothing about Japanese nationalism. Its just set in that time period.

>>280768598
>>280768648
>>280768733
It's not Nasu. The architect behind the whole adaptation is Aniplex producer. He said in an interview that he loves the work from the beginning and wants Ufo to work on it.

>>280768602
>The Demon Slayer anime began when the manga was almost finished.
Sure if you add on almost 2 years.
>Plus, wanting to collect a manga you discovered through an anime, regardless of its quality, is quite common.
Hardly, Seven Deadly Sins had a massive dropoff in viewership for the anime and manga, and obviously something like Black Clover or Boruto have been struggling. Chainsaw Man got a neat bump from the anime but it's also had some real problems following part 2 because readers are losing interest.

It's more common to see a cliff dropoff when an anime doesn't match up than it is to see people a year on making sales raise even higher than before in general, let alone to that level of phenomena. DS for whatever you may say issues it had certainly doesn't have one with retention, seeing as the new movie managed even better than the previous opening.

>I haven't read Kaiju Number 8, but this is interesting. If you have more examples of manga doing that, then it could be considered DS legacy.
The obvious one is going to be JJK, which seemed tailor made to be a DS competitor, but even in long running manga you've seen massive changes in artstyles. Bleach absolutely did not look like it did in the manga when it returned for Thousand Year War, and what did they do? They added more flashy effects like a new Anime-Only Bankai that just so happened to be close to the style of DS, complete with japanese tapestries, to name an absolute minimum. Looking over the new Shonen releases are going to give better examples directly than I could.

>>280767831
>>280767975
>>280768136
>>280768306
>>280768397
>>280768168
>>280768408
>>280768378
>>280768724
This shit uses the same formula as Your Name: beautiful visuals + forced drama. No piece of entertainment becomes beloved by all overnight because it's complex or unique. Quite the opposite.

>>280768849
>s. Bleach absolutely did not look like it did in the manga when it returned for Thousand Year War,
It's funny this got brought up because Gotoge directly said Bleach is one of the big inspirations for Demon Slayer, but then one of the producers for Thousand Year Blood War directly said that Demon Slayer's runaway success is what allowed their producers to spend more time on shorter but better looking productions. Demon Slayer the manga only looks like it did because of Bleach but Bleach the Anime came to look like it did because of Demon Slayer.

Weirdly circular, that was.

>>280768805
Thats all it needs to do. Japan gained huge worldwide relevance during Taisho by defeating Russia and China. The current government downplays this time period like crazy but the collective conscience of Japanese instinctively knows about this time period and KnY plays into this even if it doesnt flat out look directly at the viewer and exposition dump. It doesnt need to. Its a purely Japanese series with a purely Japanese setting released in a time when Japan needs it. The phenomenon of KnY is not just the manga/anime and looking at it as such will just leave people confused since the series itself isnt anything remarkable.

>>280768849
>Sure if you add on almost 2 years.
The manga started in 2016 and ended in early 2020. The anime started in mid-2019.
>>280768849
>The obvious one is going to be JJK, which seemed tailor made to be a DS competiton
JJK started in 2017 when KnY was still a nobody. And, unlike KnY, it was already selling well before the anime.

>>280768849
>Sure if you add on almost 2 years.
The manga started in 2016 and ended in early 2020. The anime started in mid-2019.
>>280768849
>The obvious one is going to be JJK, which seemed tailor made to be a DS competiton
JJK started in 2018 when KnY was still a nobody. And, unlike KnY, it was already selling well before the anime.

>>280768952
This feels like the best explanation. Seemed like a lot of the really popular manga for a while leaned heavy into European settings.

>>280761444 (OP)
>One Piece became a paradigm for adventure manga.
One Piece didn’t inspire nothing. It’s the most 5/10 by the numbers manga ever made.

>>280768341
>>280768382
>>280768407
In 2019, when the anime "exploded", My Hero Academia took 19 spots in the top 20 best-selling manga of the year in the US. So yeah, maybe after the pandemic that changed, I dunno, but I also think that outside of Japan Demon Slayer is more popular than a phenomenon.

>>280766350
I’m jealous :(

>>280768948
>Gotoge directly said Bleach is one of the big inspirations for Demon Slayer

>>280769302
>Bleach > KnY

>>280769425
Facts

>>280769077
>The manga started in 2016 and ended in early 2020.
Wiki says december 4th 2020

>>280769077
>And, unlike KnY, it was already selling well before the anime
Uh huh.

Hey lets play "Spot when the PV got released"

>>280769556
It's probably the last volume release. The final chapter came out in the Weekly Shonen Jump in April or May 2020.
>>280769647
>>280769647
300k per volume without an anime is selling well, especially compared to KnY (its first volume only achieved 300k three years after being released thanks to the anime).

>>280769647
Actually? JJK's comparatively doing pretty well before the anime previews. Shit even just after anime release is way stronger than Demon Slayer's was. He's not wrong that it's selling "Okay" before the anime stuff came to light. Obviously, not a massive success by any stretch until the anime pulled it into the spotlight, but it certainly did hold its own even before it became a bonified hit.

What I will bring up in comparison was how utterly weird it is that Demon Slayer didn't have a "Slump" like JJK or... pretty much any Manga than runs longer than a year did. There wasn't those dip downs and bounce backs with the movie-though that graph leaves cuts off too early to see season 2 didn't have as big a bump and did have an odd drop at the end of the season-it was all gas till the end and even then it held on for a bit.

Demon Slayer didn't have as strong a start but it absolutely was just 'Line go up' start to end.

>>280761444 (OP)
>One Piece became a paradigm for adventure manga.
Not really

>>280769647
Still better than Demon Slayer. Shit, even The Promised Neverland was selling much better than Kimetsu before its anime, so much so that of the three, it was the one most believed would be the next big thing.
>>280769825
The publishers themselves admit that its success was a surprise.

>>280767111
Not really, before KnY, sakuga cubes were already a thing

95 replies.
No answer.
That's its legacy.

Compare the hand-drawn art and true screenplay talent of the Samurai X OVAs to this CGI flashing light zoomer trash.

>>280770019
You love to see it

>>280769954
They were betting on Samurai 8, to the point the sent S8 volumes to stores instead of the ordered KnY

>>280770197
Bro what even happened to samurai 8?

demon slayer is less a legacy for anything when it comes to the genre and more a display of ufotable's prowess, just as they did with the fate series. DS wouldn't be a fraction as popular without ufotable.

>>280761444 (OP)
I don't know why people like this gay faggot fucking Manga with MC's that cry and whine about muh friendship like effeminate niggers. Literally MC is a carbon copy of Deku from BHA

>>280770314
It bombed

>>280770019
Thers have been several answers

>>280770333
What did this statement have to do with KnY?

>>280770333
Yea but Deku and BHA made money. Normies have legendarly low standards, and are pretty much ok with series being completely derivative if they’re just slightly different.

>>280761444 (OP)
The manga has basically nothing, it's just standard shonen. The anime is the one worth talking about.

>>280761444 (OP)
A bit early to tell no?

>>280770515
Not really? Manga already ended.

I live in Tokyo, and the amount of merch this piece of shit sells everywhere let's me know that shounen fags are down bad. Don't think there has been a shounen so generic by the numbers since back when only Dragon Ball and one other hero's journey manga existed.