Kino slowburn shows that the tiktok brained crowd find unappealing.

>>280772930 (OP)
The low IQ, young nigger newfags aren't going to like this post OP.

>>280772930 (OP)
I watched it and there was nothing resembling kino or cinema or any of these stupid buzzwords people use for Good Thing.

>>280772930 (OP)
Every criticism of s;g on this shithole is really insecure and moronic
>le OvErrAted!!!(thinks that's a criticism kek)
>"Dumb persons idea of a smart show!!" (do I even have to explain why this is an embarrassing, stupid person thing to say?)

>>280772930 (OP)
It has stood the test of time. Unlike VEG

>>280773217
This but unironically.
S;G is still widely discussed and respected anywhere anime discussion takes place. All these years later and it's still alive getting new edits and content, everyday and everywhere.

>>280773281
>All these years later and it's still alive getting new edits and content, everyday and everywhere
Explain where this is happening, because I doubt it is.

It even filters out most of /a/

>>280772930 (OP)
Anyone else think S;G kind of overrated on rewatch? I loved it when it came out but watching it again exposes all of it's glaring flaws I rarely see people point out.

>>280773148
>le OvErrAted
>"Dumb persons idea of a smart show!!"
Both of those things are true.

>>280773963
When you can't criticize an anime without projecting your insecurities over perceived intelligence.

>>280772930 (OP)
This show just isn't very good. I mean I can see where the creator was coming from but you can tell he wasn't very intelligent and just wanted to try his hand at making a show that's "high art" but it unfortunately just comes off as pretentious.
>>280773820
This one is actually good. You can tell the person that made it is actually smart and wasn't just huffing his own farts like the Steins Gate guy. It's mature akin to a western TV series and therefore is better than 99% of anime out there.

People always recommended this back in the day but it felt SLOW.

>>280773863
Make a thread about it and be super condescending and rude about the points so you get a lot of (yous)

>>280774051
>Post is full of low IQ hate spewing(no actual criticisms)over a good show almost everyone on /a/ likes and respects
>Ends his dogshit post with "and therefore is better than 99% of anime out there." talking about Monster
Kek. Fucking kek.

>>280774051
i mean i love the show but you're not wrong. it has this air of being smarter and deeper than it really is but i just watched it to jack off to the cute girls and judging by the threads i'm sure most fans can say the same.

>>280774151
Don't respond to yourself pretending to be someone else in any of my threads ever again.

>>280774139
Monster doesn't have retarded otaku pandering maid cafes and trans women so yes I like Monster more than it. Is it really so funny I prefer not having western degeneracy and coomer bait in my anime? I'm not fucking 13 anymore whacking off to Ikkitousen. You have to age out of that shit anon.

>>280774222
>I prefer not having western degeneracy and coomer bait in my anime
You sooooo fucking don't belong on /a/ dude, it's as obvious as a nuclear explosion that you're a tourist. Referring to things from s;g as "western degeneracy". This is pathetic. Get the fuck out of my thread now, stupid bitch tourist.

>>280774222
Kill yourself or go back to /pol/.

>>280774278
>You sooooo don't fit in with us degenerates dude
Thanks I guess? I've been watching anime and using this site longer than most here. You might understand when you get a bit older, considering those aspects are aimed at the younger crowd. Like I said I've outgrew most of that shit. I have kids at this point, and watching anime with a grown fucking man dressed as a girl could put the wrong idea in their heads. It's sad you people actually fucking defend this crap but considering the amount of trannies in the anime community it shouldn't surprise me.

Rangeban americans

>>280774372
Pathetic

>>280774372
It's for actual Otaku that appreciate and understand true Japanese culture, not for american pig normalfag.

Tried to talk about this show and pointing out mistakes or something silly "fans" of this show get so defensive it ruins whole thread with personal insult spam

>>280774425
Dude my fucking cat has probably seen more anime than you. Compared to me you're the equivalent of an MCUtard

>>280774060
I only watched it once, but considering what happens in the story it I recall it being pretty well paced.
Like a lot happens, lots of progression etc. Only ~100 episodes or something(I don't remember).
I always felt like I wanted more of it adapted, even though I guess there are so many cours on paper.

>>280774222
>>280774372
>average steins hater is a retarded boomer
shit writes itself

>>280774579
>seasoned anime veteran that's been watching anime since the 60's hates a show that new niggers are in love with
really makes you think

>>280774620
so we're gonna pretend 2011 is zoomer tier?
i remember a time when we looked upon those times as when anime was good and modern stuff was shit, i guess you've grown so old you've lumped them all together as the same thing that "new niggers are in love with"

>>280772930 (OP)
please have confidence in your next post, and the thing you're posting about, if you want me to engage with it op

i feel like ive seen you hide behind an ironic facade for years

>>280773820
Came here to post this. A show made for adult audience.

>>280774676
I'm very confident, thanks.

>>280774671
>2011 is zoomer tier
By definition, it literally is. Don't tell me you think zoomers only started getting into anime in their 20's?

>>280774372
Post a pic of your kids with timestamp or youre a lying retard. Nobody falls for this kinda shit anymore, newfag.

>>280774788
>Nobody falls for this kinda shit anymore
I've got a dumb motherfucker replying to me falling for it right now retard

>>280774806
Its over for /a/

>>280774774
>muh definition
you know that's not the case

>>280774806
I never fell for it, I just got bored responding to your NEWfag, early 20's, subhuman/pol/ tourist ass. It's not fun. I know what you are, every single other oldfag on /a/ knows what you are. You're boring.

>>280774853
>I never fell for it I just repeatedly took the bait for funsies!
>>280774847
If you genuinely think zoomer tier shows started in this decade you're an idiot. Even Naruto is a zoomer show

>>280774853
>i was merely pretending
>in 2011 + 14

>>280774889
I'd say naruto overlaps more with the earlier generation, not strictly zoomershit. Not that youre wrong though.

>>280773863
>overrated
A bit, but the fact is it deserved its place as one of the top anime if only because nothing came close to it in terms of characters and story in 24 episodes.
Like, I thought they get into the reports at episode 11 or something, but no, it's much earlier.
Then Mayuri died and it become a ride.
The pace become much slower towards the ending, but I think that's alright since it's the part with most substance.

>>280774889
if you think shows in 2011 are zoomer tier then you're a retard. the average zoomer was like 12 back then
>naruto
yes, not a zoomer shounen. zoomer shounen are shit like jjk, mha, demon slayer etc
you're such a newfag

>>280774938
What, i was watching animu back in 2011 and im a zoomzoom. I read my first manga in like 2008 while browsing newgrounds.

>>280774938
as a zoomer, I watched steins gate at 14, it was 3 years after the show came out but I still think it can be considered a zoomer show. I could've watched it when it came out and understood it just fine

>>280774963
>im an anomaly retard
i already know that, and no one who's been here since he was 12 is a sane person. picrel. im assuming you're a tranny?

>>280774981
>I watched steins gate at 14
no you didn't retard lol work on your bait

>>280775002
>11 yo
>not the target audience for shounen
Thanks for the ylyl, i lost.
>captcha HAG22

>>280775002
>He really thinks steins gate is some some super complicated show that can't be understood by people under 18
kek, i watched it on kissanime at 14 the same way i did psycho pass and lain and understood it just fine.

>>280775046
Yeah it was really straightforward

>>280772930 (OP)
Not kino and certainly not "slow burn". It has completely average pacing, even fast at times. Nevertheless it's a fun show and succeeds at its relatively unsophisticated artistic purpose. Worth a watch.
>>280773820
This, by contrast, fails to live up to its promise. It's basically a shounen adventure that's been reskinned through setting and to some extent tone to appear more mature - but that doesn't mean it actually is more mature, and it certainly doesn't fix its bad writing and thematic confusion (just try to defend its ending). It is also deeply repetitive, both on a literal level, for example the same flashbacks and soundtracks being used over and over until you hate them, and on a slightly more abstract level of plot elements, for example the kinderheim 511 and red room mansion subplots are literally the exact same thing, which is just insulting. It's a shame, because it has quite a few really good episodes (I liked the richard braun subplot a lot), but to work as a complete show it would need to be cut to half the length and the remainder imbued with a significantly stronger vision.

>>280775034
>steins gate is shounen
man are you even trying
gtg now i suggest you work on your baits this is bad

>>280775046
>randomly establishes a false premise and continues to force it as true
aka talking to yourself like a retard. what are you a broken huntard or something? still mad about steinsgods shattering your anus years back? kek. its funny seeing these threads still attract the same buck broken underages, how's your shitty fighting game doing? the numbers don't look too promising lol

>>280775091
>heh this isn't kino!
>heh heh this isn't kino either!
>doesn't contribute to the thread with his show he believes is kino
many such cases

>>280775112
i have 0 idea what you're talking about and honestly you seem a bit mindbroken. i'm curious why you find it hard to believe that any 14 year old has watched steins gate ever before as if that's such an impossible thing.

>>280775112
Lmao

>>280775112
Seriously though we read books in high school that were more complex than Steins Gate, are you okay?

>>280775091
>just try to defend one of the best endings in anime
Wow thats like so hard. Its the logical endpoint of the thematic moral dualism the shows about. You're just mad you still cant answer who was the monster, faget.
>for example the kinderheim 511 and red room mansion subplots are literally the exact same thing
The subplots coming together to make a greater whole is the epitome of good writing and kino. You can not like it, but it is written and executed extremely well direction wise. Read some books, watch some movies.

>>280775091
This is what it looks like when somebody who only watches anime tries to critique media, they make a complete ass of themselves. And SG definitely qualifies as slow burn, compared to pretty much any 24-26 episode show it's probably one of the slowest.

>>280772930 (OP)
picrel filters people regardless of whether they are tiktok brained

>>280775126
I don't remember any rule that says I have to name a better show before praising or criticizing the one currently being discussed. This seems like an attempt at some sort of gotcha, but I will humor you and name a few anyway: texhnolyze, haibane renmei, kino's journey, planetes, and mushi-shi (this list is not close to exhaustive) are all kino to a greater or lesser extent.

>>280775299
When silence is used this efficiently, im not surprised. Some people love when nothing is said but everything is shown, some people find it obtuse.

>>280775304
>I don't remember any rule that says I have to name a better show
there's no rule it's called contributing to the topic of the thread faggot. considering how low your standard is (only 2 of those shows you named could even resemble "kino") it's not surprising that you opted out.

>>280775304
God-tier taste anon.

>>280775189
He literally does nothing and is bailed out by pure chance as he refuses to make any decision. His presence actually makes the outcome worse in the end because he saves the life of a psychopathic serial killer who we have no reason to believe will not start killing again. It's like Tolkien's eucatastrophe, but the retarded version where the hero's actions didn't actually enable the positive outcome in any way.
>Read some books, watch some movies.
Did I touch a nerve?

>>280775264
Lmfao. S;G is not slow or challenging in any way. It's literally pure plot. As an experiment, try playing it with the video minimized and notice that you can still understand everything that happens perfectly, because it consists entirely of plot generated by people talking to each other. It's kind of like a radio show.

This one filters the most by far, both moeshitters and shonenshitters can't get past bakemonogatari.

>>280775440
>S;G is not slow or challenging in any way
Yeah, it's not challenging, luckily I never said it was. You're reading comprehension is clearly lacking so let's keep the conversation at a low level for now.
And yes it is slow, there's minimal plot progression in the first 12 and it's cited as the biggest reason people will drop the show. What are some 24 episode plot driven shows that are slower paced than it?

>>280775462
it's not a slow burn

>>280775375
About as predicted. I give my serious thoughts on the shows under discussion, and you cry because I'm not naming the things I do consider kino (notice I still like s;g, I just don't consider it high art). Then I do name some things I consider kino and you call me a faggot because you dislike some of them, but you conspicuously fail to mention which ones or why. Is your vision of an ideal discussion just a bunch of people machine-gunning titles at each other without actually saying anything about them?

>>280775502
98% of /a/ never got to this scene

>>280775502
>Not actually a child but muh 1000s year old
Boring

>>280775462
Huh? It's mostly shonenshitters who like this trash series, that's why Kizuslop is the most popular part.

>>280775523
>notice I still like s;g, I just don't consider it high art
you're right, monster is though
>dislike some of them
i don't dislike any of them, and i never said i did
texhnolyze and planetes are the only ones that could be considered kino though
you sure
>Is your vision of an ideal discussion just a bunch of people machine-gunning titles at each other
all you had to do was post an image of one of the shows you think fit the bill
regardless you seem to make a lot of assumptions, or maybe just bad at interpreting things? i can't tell.

>>280775497
Oh I'm sorry for reading the tiniest bit into your clear implications. I will make sure to only directly quote your faggotry from now on. And frankly I have no fucking idea what you're talking about with regards to the first 12 episodes of steins gate. Like the rest of the show, they are literally pure, uninterrupted plot from start to end. Does the entire saga of hacking cern and investigating the microwave with kurisu just not count to you?

>>280775577
Kizumonogatari is most popular because it's movies and are very safe for normgroids such as you who have no valid criticism besides telling me which part filtered them.

>>280775605
You managed to name an opinion you hold this time, that's the first step to engaging in a meaningful discussion. Next time you can try giving specific reasons you feel a certain way, ideally with direct reference to elements of the works in question.

>>280775618
>Does the entire saga of hacking cern and investigating the microwave with kurisu just not count to you
I never said there was no plot progression in the first 12 episodes. Read my post again, but preferably slower this time.

>>280775574
>Boring
what exactly is your idea of entertainment?
just enjoy the view of her provocative body while you still can

>>280775687
>"mininal" plot progression
>every episode is at least 20 minutes of continuous plot progression
I really don't know what to tell you at thus point.

>>280774372
>watching a man dressed as a girl could put the bad idea in their head!
It didn't do it to you despite you already being a faggot.
If you do your job as a parent you don't have anything to worry about no matter what they're exposed to.

>>280775574
Agecucks are the most pathetic subspecies of a chimpanzee that there could possibly be, but no, she's actually 598 years old, at least pay attention before having an opinion on something, subhuman.

>>280775625
Kizu is indeed the safest for normalfags but let's not pretend that it is by any large margin as the entire series is in fact normalfag bait.

>>280775792
Then how did you get filtered so fast?

>>280775747
>>every episode is at least 20 minutes of continuous plot progression
Maybe intentionally hyperbolic, but intentionally being a retard is still being a retard. There are many scenes that don't move the plot forward in those episodes but maybe you haven't seen it in a while
Regardless, you still haven't named a slower paced 24 episode plot driven show. I mean if S;G isn't slow paced you have to be comparing it to something right?

>>280772930 (OP)

>>280775687
NTA but what happens in the first half of S;G is called building around the mystery and establishing characters. It's not "minimal plot progression" or "no plot progression". That's when you wonder what these characters are, why they act the way they do, and try to pick up the hints and clues about what is going on.
Unless you are a drooling retard watching dub to be able to look at your phone with the show in the backrgound, there's plently of content to entertain your brain with and don't get the impression of the show being slow

>>280775440
>His presence actually makes the outcome worse in the end because he saves the life of a psychopathic serial killer
Yes, the point being who was the monster? The ''altruistic'' character actually fucks shit up even more from a consequentialist perspective, yet we cannot exactly call his empathy wrong since the whole story is about what happens when people lack just that virtue. Him saving Johan is the action that ironically proves Tenma to be right. Johan wanted Tenma to kill him so Johan could be proven right. Thus, psychological egoism is heavily implied making Tenma a very flawed and complex character. His journey isn't about the greater good, its about him trying to prove to himself the value system he holds is correct. Thats purposeful and subversive, not bad writing. The ending climax creates a multilayered ethical question, that question being the logical endpoint to all the earlier questions the show has portrayed. What is value, what is the value of life? At least enough to kill over, if we're to listen to the eros of our genetic coding apparently. From between the two pillars, the ying & yang, masculine and feminine, positive and negative comes the shot. Moral dualistic worldview is turned into tatters in the final act of a man killing to save a life. The irony of it is utterly fucking perfect.
Tolkien shined in worldbuilding, not in characterwriting nor in ethical dilemmas. He said good guy, bad guy. Thats lame.
The final scene brings to question, if we look at the causality of evil, who was the real monster? A person, human nature, building blocks that create reality? Its an excellent portrayal of the idea of karmic consequence and the question of evil.

And we do know that Johan went off to live in a small cottage, never killing again. In this way he admitted defeat, and lived a peaceful rest of his life.
>Did I touch a nerve?
No, thats called genuine advice.

>>280775822
I think any of the "kino" shows I listed earlier should fit the bill for "less immediate dopamine response than Steins;Gate". You can leave out the episodic ones if you don't count that. If you'd like, I can also start naming movies, books, and live-action TV. This is not a rare property for artistic works to have.

>>280775920
Empathy isn't real, therefore anyone who LARPs it is a monster. The killer is just normal, organic, and sane human.

>>280775809
How did I get filtered, indeed? Is there even anything in Gatarislop to get filtered by at all?

>>280775875
>what happens in the first half of S;G is called building around the mystery and establishing characters
Which is fine
>That's when you wonder what these characters are, why they act the way they do, and try to pick up the hints and clues about what is going on
None of these things have to do with progressing the plot though, it's developing the characters.
>there's plently of content to entertain your brain with
Personally I agree, but not everyone has to
>and don't get the impression of the show being slow
Compared to what though
>>280775923
>I think any of the "kino" shows I listed earlier should fit the bill
I can agree with that
There are surely shows that are slower paced than Steins Gate. MOST shows are faster paced than it though. Amongst the most popular anime in modern communities it is probably the slowest.

>>280775792
>the entire series is in fact normalfag bait.
what does this mean?

>>280775949
You already told me what filtered you. Did you forget after opening tiktok again?

>>280772930 (OP)
I'm struggling to think of a deliberately slow show that's actually good? Sangatsu no Lion is good but that's in spite of its awful pacing. Recently watched Texhnolyze and it was mediocre, with no good characters, despite its reputation. Wouldn't call Steins;Gate slow past the 1st half.

>>280775304
>kino's journey
How does that count as slow, almost every episode has an entire self-contained story?

>>280775938
We can study empathy behaviorally and neurologically, since it happens in the brain and is a constant in human behavior. The purposefulness of empathy is obvious from an evolutionary psychological point of view. Thats is why i brought up psychological egoism, though.

>>280775974
>How does that count as slow
The post asked him to contribute things that are ''kino'', he wasn't replying to OP per say. You're right though.

>>280776009
No brain activity took place in your brain during writing of your post, because definition of empathy is self debunking. You cannot even empathize with the fact that I suffer everyday with retards like you constantly parroting complete nonsense.

>>280775953
>None of these things have to do with progressing the plot though
As long as characters learn new information and act upon it, the plot progresses.
Just because the location is the same and nobody gets killed doesn't mean the plot wagon has halted.
Additionally, "the plot" continues to be built inside your head when you pick up on hints and pieces of foreshadowing. If you don't agree with that, you shouldn't have said this:
>>there's plently of content to entertain your brain with
>Personally I agree, but not everyone has to
And what does "not everyone has to agree with that" even mean? Sure, some shows can be background noise, but what does it have to do with S;G? The second part of its story doesn't mean anything without the first

>>280776031
Empathy is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. I guess you could bring up the question of other minds into this, but i wont. Heres some added reading from wikipedia.

>Neuropsychological studies have linked mirror neurons to humans experiencing empathy. Mirror neurons are activated both when a human (or animal) performs an action and when they observe another human (or animal) perform the same action. Researchers have found that the more these mirror neurons fire the more human subjects report empathy. From a neurological perspective, scientists argue that when a human empathizes with another, the brain operates as if the human is actually participating in the actions of the other person. Thus, when performing altruistic actions motivated by empathy, humans experience someone else's pleasure of being helped. Therefore, in performing acts of altruism, people act in their own self-interest even at a neurological level.

>>280775920
Thank you, I appreciate that you will at least seriously defend your opinions, unlike the other anons here who are just crying.
>we cannot exactly call his empathy wrong since the whole story is about what happens when people lack just that virtue
We can. Any serious moral philosophy justifies killing a literal active serial killer in the direct defense of an innocent in imminent mortal danger. It's weakness, plain and simple.
>[...] Tenma a very flawed and complex character.
This is true, but he's also a very static character. The Tenma of the last episode is the same as the Tenma of the library scene, who is the same as the Tenma of the first episode. If a character goes on 60 episodes of journeying, I expect for them to learn something or change in some way from the start of the show.
>Tolkien shined in worldbuilding, not in characterwriting nor in ethical dilemmas
This is a very surface-level opinion. Nobody gives a shit about worldbuilding, tolkien has been relevant for 80 years because of characters and themes, many of them of course dealing with ethics.
>And we do know that Johan went off to live in a small cottage, never killing again.
How do we know this? My memory was that the last scene is his empty hospital bed after escaping. I'm not judging the manga here; I only watched the adaptation.

>>280776102
Explain to me what a woman feels as chad's cock enters her vagina and presses against her womb.
If empathy is possible, you should be able to do it.

>>280776133
>characters and themes
and prose, of course

>>280775953
>None of these things have to do with progressing the plot though, it's developing the characters.
Development in characters' relationships by means of dialogue is plot, of course. How is any drama supposed to have a plot otherwise?

>>280775974
>How does that count as slow, almost every episode has an entire self-contained story?
I don't see what being episodic has to do with this property, really. It has a lot more introspection, silence, and "inessential" dialogue and scenery than something like s;g. Really most of the episodes have very little plot to speak of. It's like a violent version of The Little Prince.

>>280775962
But I didn't, my dear mentally deficient newfriend. Otherwise, be kind to point me to said instance.

>>280776089
>As long as characters learn new information and act upon it
As long as the information and those actions are consequential to some goal in the story or some end I'd agree, but that's not what you initially said.
>If you don't agree with that, you shouldn't have said this >>there's plently of content to entertain your brain with
I mean my brain could be entertained by some random slice of life anime, I don't see how those ideas correlate
>And what does "not everyone has to agree with that" even mean
I was just saying people can find the show slow and not entertaining without having a low attention span as you were implying
>>280776221
>How is any drama supposed to have a plot otherwise
It depends on the story being told
Filler episodes of shounen have dialogue that to some people fleshes out those characters relationships, but the there isn't actually any progression being made in the story no matter which way you look at it

>>280776328
You can't even follow what you posted ITT, I'm not surprised that kino filters you.

>>280776360
I accept your concession, slopfan.

>>280776381
No, I accept yours, filtered faggot. You barge into a thread, spamming bait, and then think you can just accept a concession that was never made? Think again, tranny, you will have a lot of time to do that while watching your generic seasonal moetrash.

>>280772930 (OP)
I hate that banter and comedy segments in an anime is considered slowburn or filler for the short attention span tiktok retards.
visual novel anime adaptation always never fail to entertain me with witty banter kino and small talk, and I wish more anime were like that

>>280772930 (OP)
Unironically Gintama

>>280776350
>that's not what you initially said.
S:G is a character drama, so it's self-evident that the character interactions are as valuable to the plot as everything else. this anon is right >>280776221 and you replied to him "it depends on the story". i mean, of course it does and who would think that it is the case with S;G. what exactly are you disagreeing with then?
>a low attention span as you were implying
that's not what i was impying, though.
i was saying that of course you are going to find the core of the story such as this boring if you are not going to engage with it. i know that OP started the topic of "slow burns", but it doesn't have much to do with S;G, so that's not what i'm talking about here. merely mentioning how someone could find it "slow"

>>280775462
>moeshitters
what? I watched monogatari first as a 12 year old with shit english skills and just enjoyed the cute girls and animtion.

>>280776133
Thanks for the well written response.
>We can. Any serious moral philosophy justifies killing a literal active serial killer
Certainly yes, thats why i brought up consequentialism. Thats why i also added ''yet we cannot exactly call his empathy wrong since the whole story is about what happens when people lack just that virtue'' to bring out the point that consequentialist approach is not the whole truth whatsoever. Johan was born trough events that were caused by people with no empathy. If everyone was like Tenma, there would be no Johan to challenge him. Yet thats impossible, and thats very much the point. Personally i dont think Tenma was right, but i do think his moral position was portrayed well. You cannot get rid of all murderers by killing them, which brings us to the ultimate question of the series portrayed in the climax. Its the question of evil. Since there's the ''monster'', what creates it?
>This is true, but he's also a very static character.
I'll give you that. I didn't mind that because i thought it was subversive; we expected him to really kill him this time by the end, and just as the camera zooms on him as hes about to pull the trigger the hobo shoots Johan. Then again, he cant change too much since hes supposed to represent an idea. They are the different sides of the coin, and i can see why'd you dislike that. I just cant say its bad writing. The reasons why i thought this was done well i mentioned earlier.

>>280776133
>If a character goes on 60 episodes of journeying, I expect for them to learn something
True enough. Im glad this happens to other characters who aren't so written in stone for the overall theme of the moral dualistic showdown to work. My favorite is picrel, she deserves a multipage essay written. Great character arc.
>tolkien has been relevant for 80 years because of characters and themes, many of them of course dealing with ethics
You brought up his 'eucatastrophe', not me. His ethics are barebones even when compared to Monster, cant really work around that. And thats just fine. He shines in other areas and nobody can work around that either.
>How do we know this?
Its a sequel novel, its been fantranslated but its hard to get. I never read it, i did read some discussions on it back in the day.

I feel like we can pretty much agree to disagree, i dont feel like i have much to add. Our outlooks seem to differ, as i see all the characters as symbolical representations of ideals and the character conflicts being about philosophical dilemmas whereas you look on the story in a very literal sense.

>>280776405
>a concession that was never made
You were asked to provide proof - which doesn't exist - for shit you made up and you expectedly backed off, Pajeet. A concession WAS made and accepted. Meditate on this while watching yet another episode of corporate Shart larping as Wes Anderson to cover up for the generic harem nature of the franchise.

>>280776580
So you didn't post this? >>280775625
You just think you can samefag and claim that there's multiple extremely retarded faggots just like you ITT?

>>280776184
They feel pretty good. Easy.

>>280774764
This aint slowburn. This is just shit. All that build up (Ep11 is the best episode and should be the ending) only for the show to end in NTR

>>280776617
I accept your concession.

A reminder that all well-written shows come from traditional novels. Not manga, not light novels. Actual novels.

>>280776482
>so it's self-evident that the character interactions are as valuable to the plot as everything else
So which is it that you actually think. You just said that characters gaining new information and acting on it is plot progression, now again you're saying that fleshing characters out is plot progression. You say "valuable" and yes I would say that fleshing out and developing character relationships are valuable to the story but I've no clue where I stated otherwise. For me when I think of the word plot, I think of the key events that contribute to the broad scope of the story. Stein's Gate at the end of the day is about a guy trying to save his friends from dying via time travel. So you could argue the fleshing out and developing of the main characters involved in that are elements of the plot, but that's not the case for ALL the dialogue with ALL of the characters.

>>280776654
Pic not related?

>>280776611
I was thinking you were that poster lmao. I guess I just can't tell you fart huffing gatarijeets apart.

Science Adventure is too complex for normalfags.

>>280776629
The girl picks up broken things, MC isn't broken by the end but a functioning adult so the girl continues onto her way. The point is for the viewer to remember back when they finished high school and they broke up with their high school date. The end is about ending the peter pan syndrome, accepting the suffering, risks and possible rewards of the adult life and continuing on. Children nor neets who keep on living an endless summer vacation cannot comprehend this though.

>>280776629
>only for the show to end in NTR
this is why i love stories that are purely interpretative. you can fish a retard out with ease. they'll do it themselves.
this might also be the reason why faggots like you hate it in turn

>>280776675
>I was thinking.
Any peer reviewed studies that supports this claim?

>>280776693
>interpret
>see your own reflection
>???
>i hate this ntr shit!!
>profit

>>280772930 (OP)
Someone post a A24 söyjak image in response to this post

>>280776693
I never understood why these faggots seethe about NTR constantly, I just self insert as the guy who cucks the generic unrelatable MC.

>>280776654
Nigger

>>280776754

>>280776572
>>280776102
>>280775920
what the fuck are all these big words? monster is as mediocre as they come, it's easy to dress up your favorite show in fancy ideas like "egoism" and the value of life.
>Yes, the point being who was the monster?
haha! see i always disliked the ending and it ruined the show for me, but this? this is the explanation behind it? who was the monster? the doctor doing his job or the mentally scarred psycho killing people for fun? thats it? lol
>Therefore, in performing acts of altruism, people act in their own self-interest even at a neurological level.
you can apply this to any emotion you feel, but congrats on learning how neurons and chemical releases work, jesus

>>280776693
I hate the ending for the simple fact that it’s not satisfying. Doesn’t matter if it’s interpretive nonsense. The ED is literally about “Boy meets Girl” and gives off huge owakare vibes.

"You may stay here"

“Don’t say goodbye.”

The show’s a coming-of-age story that’s been building up like a summer trip where you met a village girl (this case being Nozomi) you still can’t forget after 50 years.

So what’s the point of that final sendoff in episode 11 if you’re just going to throw in another “her” at the end? In the bigger picture, the show pulls another U-turn just to push one more message which feels overdone at that point. They already hammered a lot of messages for 10 episodes straight. They should’ve just gone with a simple, clean conclusion. This is like when Anno thought it was a genius move to throw in that pretentious live-action narrative crap at the end of End of Evangelion.

>>280776781
Those aren't big words, you learn those in the first philosophy course in high school. We use words to describe things.

Yes, the explanation is that it was obviously from the start about the question of evil.

Yes, which is a good argument for psychological egoism.

>>280776781
>but this? this is the explanation behind it? who was the monster? the doctor doing his job or the mentally scarred psycho killing people for fun? thats it?
So you admit you didn't actually understand what the ending of the show meant until this anon spelled it out for you (already telling of what kind of person you are) and you didn't like it because of it. And when you finally get an answer you just laugh it off.

>>280772930 (OP)
Too many words to justify dull shit

>>280776817
they are big words when you're describing a shitty nip manga, a medium that isn't particularly known for its lucidity regarding the philosophical ideas

>the explanation is that it was obviously from the start about the question of evil.
this is honestly a bizarre way of looking at it. you're seriously arguing both positions are equally valid when A is an empathetic moral doctor who even went against his boss and did the surgery on the old woman instead of the mayor and lost his job because of it JUST because vs B: deranged psycho orphan who's been killing since he was a child

jeez one of these guys is the ACTUAL monster and guess what? it isn't the psycho killer!!!! WOW!! so deep and iNtelLLecTaL my god who could've thought!!! this is genius!

>which is a good argument for psychological egoism
so everyone is an egoist? so altruism doesn't actually exist?

>>280776876
yes, the ending left me confused. why wasn't the serial killer at least put in prison to pay for his crimes? oh its because the doctor IS the monster..... damn so deep no wonder i didn't get it......

>>280776919
>oh its because the doctor IS the monster
I don't know how the other anon interpreted it but I'm pretty sure the point of the story was that there was no Monster. The whole reveal of why Johan did the things he did was supposed to show you he wasn't just pure evil just a severely fucked up mentally ill man.
>why wasn't the serial killer at least put in prison to pay for his crimes
Fortunately stories don't have to end the way you wanted them, if it ended as you wanted it would've been mega lame.

>>280776919
Yet i can describe a nippon comic with those words. Curious.

No, thats not the question of evil. Well, turns out its actually called the PROBLEM of evil, my native language translates it differently apparently. You can learn more by googling, which is why i used the term in the first place. I also mentioned Tenma and Johan being moral dualistic opposites of each other, i dont think they're as valid and i never said that.

Psychological egoism is a strong argument but it suffers from regressio ad infinitum and circular logic. The context for why i mentioned it can be found in my post.

>>280773820
it's a dogshit show lmao

>>280777086
well it is a tard filter so i hear that often

>>280776665
>So which is it that you actually think.
what makes my statements contradictory? genuinely don't know what to reply to that.
>when I think of the word plot, I think of the key events that contribute to the broad scope of the story.
in a character drama, what characters feel and how they react to what happens to them is THE PLOT. the broader scope of the story was cut out in the anime, btw.
obviously you could come up with your own definition of the term, but i'm just talking about what it is in practice and exactly in the context of S;G.
basically, one shouldn't care at all about what happens in the second half of it if one didn't find the characters interesting while experiencing their interactions. and it's fine if that's the case. i'm just saying how i see it.
>but that's not the case for ALL the dialogue with ALL of the characters.
true, S;G is not perfect in that regard. i just don't agree with it being slow as a consequence. making it faster would ruin it and make it "too fast". it's already faster than the source material.

>>280776982
>The whole reveal of why Johan did the things he did was supposed to show you he wasn't just pure evil just a severely fucked up mentally ill man.
mentally ill enough to kill anyone he sees (for some reason, we never really know why as he's always shrouded in mystery) but also sane enough to understand he's a psycho and tells tenma to kill him??? so which is it?

>if it ended as you wanted it would've been mega lame.
no it would've been great retard. all the most established crime novels (the stranger, crime and punishment etc) end up with the criminal being imprisoned/executed to repent for his crimes. any respectable writer would treat his criminal character with contempt, someone you avoid and learn from not one you inspire to be like Johann is. it's only nips with their cringe infantile writing that can unironically think letting a serial killer go was actually the GOOOD thing!
i suggest you read a book for once in your life and watch more anime, monster is a travesty just like anything that hack ever wrote.

>>280777056
>Yet i can describe a nippon comic with those words
misplaced critique, a gesture of vanity, or simply bias for the show you like.

>The problem of evil is the philosophical question of how to reconcile the existence of evil and suffering with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient God.
how does this relate here? do you even understand what you're talking about?

>Psychological egoism is a strong argument
that's not the argument, that's the premise you're arguing for. i don't feel like having a discussion about philosophy right now and you're pretty esl, which is fine unless you're indian please tell me you're not

>>280777164
>making it faster would ruin it
I agree, it shouldn't be faster, but I do think it is slow. I just don't view it being slow as a negative, some of my favorites shows that have impacted me the most are slower paced.

>>280777220
Find me easier synonyms for the words i used that you declared big words. They must have the same definitions. There is a reason i use a certain word to describe a certain thing. I prefer simple language when available.

The problem of evil is not only a subject in philosophy of religion, its also a subject in ethics. I spoke of ethics in my posts, this should be obvious. Do you even understand what youre talking about?

No, i said
>Yes, the point being who was the monster? The ''altruistic'' character actually fucks shit up even more from a consequentialist perspective, yet we cannot exactly call his empathy wrong since the whole story is about what happens when people lack just that virtue. Him saving Johan is the action that ironically proves Tenma to be right. Johan wanted Tenma to kill him so Johan could be proven right. Thus, psychological egoism is heavily implied making Tenma a very flawed and complex character. His journey isn't about the greater good, its about him trying to prove to himself the value system he holds is correct. Thats purposeful and subversive, not bad writing.
So, no. It was not a premise i was arguing for.

And yes, you shouldn't feel like arguing about philosophy. You clearly cant.

>>280777220
>we never really know why as he's always shrouded in mystery
Because it makes the show more interesting. Johan is anime's best example of a Karma Houdini Villain and there's nothing inherently wrong with that.
>but also sane enough to understand he's a psycho and tells tenma to kill him??? so which is it
I never said he was insane I just said he was mentally ill. He is a psychopath but that has nothing to do with lucidity.
>no it would've been great retard
Nah it would've been ass. Leaving the ending open ended leaves room for more discussion on how Johan will proceed in the future. Low IQ readers typically dislike endings that encourage discussion and thinking so I can't necessarily blame you for not wanting that. I'm pretty sure some shounen series like Naruto and Bleach might have what you're looking for though, be sure to give them a read!

>>280777346

>>280777323
egoism = selfish
also
>didn't deny being an indian

>>280777346
>Because it makes the show more interesting.
>Leaving the ending open ended leaves room for more discussion on how Johan will proceed in the future.

>DUUUUUUUUUDE WHAT IF WHAT IF.... JOHANN COMES BACK 50 YEARS LATER AND ADMITS HES WRONG!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD HOLY KINOOOO
kek of course im talking to a fucking underage. the irony of you recommending me shounen shit when you're clearly an underage sperg who's never read a book in his life. you're such a fucking nigger lmao

>>280777432
>Egoism, the philosophical view that one should act in one's own self-interest, is often confused with selfishness, but they are distinct concepts. While both involve self-interest, egoism doesn't necessarily entail disregard for others, whereas selfishness, as commonly understood, does.
Just use google before you post in the future. Also come up with responses to the other points next time, if you can.
Also
>didn't profile himself on an anonymous imageboard

>>280777486
>STILL not denying hes indian

>>280777570
Imagine if you just lost to a streetshitting pajeet.

>>280772930 (OP)
>what if we just magically fix everything in the ending
I clap

>>280773820
>70 episodes to say people are le real monsters

>>280777578
>lost
rajesh please, it makes sense indians love slop like monster though

>>280777591
>Happy ending.....BAD!!!!
I kneel at your... intelligence...woah...

>>280777624
>let's just ignore it contradicting the whole point of the show

>>280777610
...is all you could come up with.

>>280777591
>magically
reread or rewatch it cuz this is just embarrassing

>>280777631
S;G went through a thematic shift in the last couple episodes, it doesn't contradict anything .

>>280777654
>S;G went through a thematic shift in the last couple episodes
you just paraphrased my statement

>>280777654
Could you describe this shift in a bit more detail so i'd understand where you're coming from?

>>280777638
what else to say? monster is slop and you stink

>>280777668
power of love or something

>>280773820
decent message that's spread too thin

>>280777672

>>280777686
you need a very high iq to understand the symbolism of the ending

>>280777688
keep seething nigga

>>280777699

>>280777668
While it was a prevalent theme throughout S;G that one should not screw with time travel or "fuck with God". The last few episodes is trying to say that while there ARE certain things out of your control, you still control your own destiny and write your own story in the end. It's quite a simple but effective message.

>>280777696
The ending itself is fairly straightforward when compared to the overarching plotline, though.

>>280777712
just say it dude, say you're indian its not like anyone cares

>>280777718
From hard-determinism to soft-determinism. Thats hopeful.

>>280777696
not really, listening to literature classes in high school should be enough to get you though it
Monster would have benefitted from having fewer than 74 episodes

>>280777735
>still replying
Anon... I...

>>280777746
>From hard-determinism to soft-determinism.
it's not either of those.
read sciadv

>>280777753
The manga is a lot shorter when compared. I'd recommend it any day of the week. Personally i preferred the artwork to the anime as well.

>>280777757
what? got something to say? say it bitch

>this popular shit is actually misunderstood and requires high iq
Niggas might as well start posting Frieren.

>>280772930 (OP)
Shin Sekai Yori to a T.
As someone who was captivated by the premise from the get-go, it was still an absolutely slow burn. Loved every bit of it. Still one of my favorites.

>>280777768
Oh? Guess I'll check it out.

>>280777804
Frieren doesn't require you to be an intellectual though

>>280777814
If you happen to like it, i'd recommend Billy the Bat and/or Pluto from the same mangaka afterwards. Hope you'll enjoy it.

>>280777746
I agree, it is pretty hopeful.

>>280776629
To be fair, you need a very high iq to understand the science behind Sonny Boy

>>280777818
People like to pretend it does with all the "muh demons are actually an allegory" debates

>>280777890
You need to be a scientist to understand Steins;Gate though

What show requires you to be retarded to understand it though?

>>280777914
Moeshit.

>>280777914
Anime.

>>280777591
>Magically
All of Okabes friends had to make huge personal sacrifices for him to reach that timeline. How is that magically fixing everything

>>280777931
you actually need to be mature to understand moe

>>280777935

>>280777931
>>280777935
why are you twitterfags like this?

>>280777958
>99% of (x) is SHIT!
This is true, for all forms of media. No one can agree on what the one percent is though.

>>280777944
No, you only need to be retarded.

>>280772930 (OP)
Thinking Steins;Gate was a slow burn is retarded. If anything it should have been a bit longer
>>280773820
and
>>280775299
Were actual slow burns

>>280777782

>>280778005
Everything that's not moeshit or shonenshit is usually "good" by default.

>>280775299
that's just a slideshow

>>280778018
You clearly haven't made it past the casual phase if you feel that way then.

>>280774764
>sonny boy
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARS GOOD MORNIGN SARS

>>280778034
Watched anime casually for past 30 years and I'm proud of it, faggot.

>>280778034
So much this, you need to binge 1000 versions of the equivalent of the Office and Friends to be a real fan

>>280778059
I look at $current_season and only roll my eyes because 95% of it is either isekaishit or moeshit and I'm a casual because I simply choose not to watch it.

>>280778057
>I'm sooo old listen to what I say!!!
We already went over this at the beginning of the thread nobody believes posts like this. If you believe anything not moe or shounen(which is a lot of dogshit anime) is good then you're new to the medium jej newfag

>>280778071
I don't get why people don't understand this. To be a cinephile, you need to love marvel movies

>>280778071
I'm so sorry your feelings got hurt, but yes, Dragon Ball does exist and I somewhat did enjoy Kobayashi too, doesn't mean that the genres as a whole are trash and I wouldn't be sad if they died in a fire.

>>280775299
>>280775376
>>280773820
These are just boring shows. Way too long for their stories.

>>280778015
hi homo

>>280774764
chat is this real?

>>280774372
>>280774222
normalfag kys