Thread 281074211

>traitor
>uses childs soldiers
>experiments on children
>literally sacrifices children in necomantic rituals
>kills 3rd Hokage
>gets away with everything
I hate narutards so much it's unreal

>>281074211 (OP)
ur just jealous lmao

>>281074211 (OP)
You forgot
>Male mommy shoujo seme

>>281074211 (OP)
But he didn't get the magic eyes. It's a victory, but not a perfect one.

>fucked militaristic society that uses child soldiers anyway
>somehow leveraging a tremendously valuable asset is surprising
Orochimaru getting away with everything is one of the few things that actually makes sense in the wider setting of Naruto

>>281074211 (OP)
Reminder that Anko ate herself to death out of sadness and depression.

>>281074211 (OP)
They all use child soldiers.

>>281074211 (OP)
Itachi committed genocide and the story wanks him. Orochimaru was more deserving of forgiveness than Itachi

>>281074211 (OP)
>child soldiers
Yea so does everyone else it's kind of the whole point of the show.

>>281074211 (OP)
>uses childs soldiers
What village doesn't?

>>281074556
Uchiha's are evil

>kills 3rd Hokage
He's a hero just for that. Hiruzen deserved worse

>>281074211 (OP)
He died already. What more can you ask from an quasi-immortal dude?

>>281075131
it's so funny looking back and seeing how many problems he's ultimately responsible for, all pretty much unintentionally written in by kishi

>>281075155
>He died
And Anko should've been the one to help Sasuke revive and recruit the previous Hokage. At least then she'd be good for something.

>>281075361
Sarutobi was a weird character even before the retroactive treatment.

>>281074211 (OP)
He was also the war hero

>>281075131
>>281075361
Apart from the Uchiha massacre, what else was he responsible for? Orochimaru doesn't count, he chose that path himself.

Orochimaru is sealed. The one walking is a clone.

>>281074211 (OP)
He's dead. This is like a clone Hitler situation, he's basically innocent.

Battle shounen moral law. If an antagonist is repentant and is no longer an antagonist they must be forgiven and allowed to remain in the narrative as a protagonist. The crimes don’t matter at all, all that matters is intent. None of the characters care because the readers don’t care; if you’re not a named combatant you don’t matter. I didn’t make the rules I’m just telling you what they are.

>>281074211 (OP)
>uses child soldiers
Hiruzen was a hero

>>281076681
>Let a nobody village who tried to kidnap Hinata take a hyuuga's life because "muh war"
This is like America fearing a war with honduras
>Uchiha Massacre
As already mentioned, but he also lost all credibility as a hokage by let anyone but him decide. Even Tsunade had more balls than him. Maybe he believed in democracy idk.
>Could have killed Orochi in the past but spared him
>Chunnin exam wasnt lethal but for some reason he changed to death battles
Probably Danzo thought it would be cool
>Orochimaru was fucking standing in the chunnin exams and walking freely in
the village and no one did nothing until the attack
Ok maybe this is just kishi badwritting
>Never properly trained Naruto
Even Gaara's father trained his walking nuke
>Assigned team 7 to a jounnin level misson that could have killed Sasuke or make naruto break the seal
Kek imagine Itachi's face if he knew that his brother dies because the Hokage sent gennins to an A rank mission.

>>281074211 (OP)
One of the most bizarre things for me is how he was obsessed with getting a Uchiha body because of the Sharigan, only to later be revealed that you can change eyes like marble balls with no negative repercursions.

>>281078134
stop asking questions

>>281075131
Also killing the 4th Kazekage, who was turning his own kids into experiments, leaving a hole Gaara would fill improved the Sand by ten fold.

>>281075131
Danzo's character was basically created to absolve him of all of his sins

>>281077953
>This is like America fearing a war with honduras
Considering the USA win-loss record it wouldn't be surprising for Honduras to win

>>281074211 (OP)
Sounds pretty believable to real life. What's the problem?

>>281074211 (OP)
>traitor
>uses childs soldiers
>experiments on children
>literally sacrifices children in necomantic rituals
>kills 3rd Hokage
>gets away with everything
Naruto is set in America

>>281077953
it's funny how the hinata kidnap incident is never ever brought up again. You had that random girl beating Naruto's ass right after he finally gets his moment against Pain, and no told them to eat shit.

>>281077953
In fairness, the Land of Waves mission got out of hand because Tazuna screwed Konoha over by omitting details to hire ninjas for cheaper, and so the mission was assigned a lower rank.
Everything else is Hiruzen being incompetent and/or not ruthless enough, and he certainly should have known better having been raised during war. He was too in on the Will of Fire and forgot he was supposed to be a military leader and not a civil one

>>281079407
America forgive Shiro Ishii's crimes against humanity in exchange of Unit 731's notes. Also they made an entire genre about celebrating genocide, see western

>>281074211 (OP)
Orochimaru has Gender Dysphoria

>>281077413
Like in Jojo, right. With that child murdering psychopath manga artist, who then became super friend.

>>281074211 (OP)
>>281079407
It's like Freddy Krueger being granted a pardon

>>281079711
>America forgive Shiro Ishii's crimes against humanity in exchange of Unit 731's notes
God that was actually funny
>Unit 731 was alerted that they fucking lost
>Start taking cyanide pills
>Apparently these expire and it just made them sick
>Americans arrive and see the whole mess
>They cut a deal where they give them the research data and they get amnesty
>They conclude most of it was actually useless
Iirc, one of them lived on to become the Green Cross CEO in Japan. Unfortunate for those who may have done seppuku.

>>281079711
>Shiro Ishii
The USA government pardoned 1600 German scientists, including a fuckton of Nazi ufficials and high ranking party members, just to have rocket scientists
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
Which is the origin of one of my favorite jokes
>why hasn't America go back to the moon?
>We run out of Germans to make our rockets

>>281079407
I already hated the US for bombing Serbia in favour of albanians, but then I learned Clinton didn't because Hilary threatened him with no sex.
someone nuke the Great Satan

>>281080626
We were told it was serbs invading and genociding people.

>>281074211 (OP)
>>uses childs soldiers
Enough about Hiruzen

>>281081240
yeah sure. Iraq had weapons of mass destruction as well.

>>281074211 (OP)
>>gets away with everything
Wrong - they took away his jawline as punishment

>>281081240
can americans even point Serbia, Kosovo or Albania on a map?

>>281074211 (OP)
>The women are all useless
>Child abusers get away with everything
>Stupid sluts end up being single mothers
Naruto might be the most realistically written shonen ever when you really stop and think about it.

>>281081725
>nerfed this badly
yeah decent punishment

>>281081792
Is there a single Naruto character that didn't lose their sauce in Boruto

>>281081725
>>281081792
The character designer for the Boruto anime is a worse criminal than Orichimaru

>>281082200
Ten Ten?

>>281082200
Temari, kinda
All men got fucked though

>>281074211 (OP)
But that Orochimaru was inside Anko for years. The other one was sealed by Itachi.

>>281081725
>punishment
Implying

>>281074211 (OP)
He's a war hero... TWICE!

>>281074211 (OP)
obligatory

>>281074287
doesn't need them anymore
he only wanted the sharingan to speed up his ability to learn every jutsu in the world
he has access to Hashirama Goop clone bodies now so he can just effortlessly transfer his consciousness into a new one whenever he wants

What he wanted was immortality - time - and he got it

It's okay because he was a popular character. That means he doesn't get to face any comeuppance for his actions. Honestly Orochimaru getting a Nazi scientist pardon is less egregious than Sasuke facing zero consequences for what he did. But I guess there's no way Nardo would ever outlaw his gay crush.

>>281077953
>>Let a nobody village who tried to kidnap Hinata take a hyuuga's life because "muh war"
>This is like America fearing a war with honduras
Anon the Cloud Village is not a nobody village, they are the only great village that is confirmed by Kishimoto to be STRONGER than the Leaf Village

>>281082606
>your friend would never even think of such a tactic
Oh shit
It was Shikamaru's idea to keep these fuckers around as deterrent against the other villages?

>>281082651
fat FUCK

>>281078134
Sharingan is a constant chakra-drain and doesn't work as well in a non-uchiha body
He wanted the Uchiha body and the eyes to go with it, the complete set

look at Kakashi
he can't use his sharingan for shit because his body isn't compatible

>>281082687
Nah he's talking about Naruto, this is during the blank period before Boruto
Although Kakashi was technically Hokage at the time, so pardoning Orochimaru and Kabuto were Kakashi-era policies

>>281082748
At Naruto's insistance, though

>>281082651
>6730 Kcal
>the calories an adult female needs every four day
>1300 calories a day
The average American woman drinks doubles that amount as a snack every day

>>281082792
Do you think people drink that everyday?

>>281082790
although this edit may be a little more honest

>>281074211 (OP)
I wanna see you deal with the guy who has untold numbers of backups of himself implanted in people.

>>281082994
73% of American adults are overweight, 43% of American adults are morbidly obese
I know for a fact that a lot of people drink more than that every day

>>281083119
Well yeah honestly, good thing Boruto walks his powers back!

>>281083171
problem?

>>281077953
>a nobody village
The Cloud was stronger than the Leaf at the time. They had two jinchuriki and a monstrous Raikage while the Leaf had no useful jinchuriki and were still recovering from the decimation doled out to them by the fox and Obito.
>the village and no one did nothing until the attack
They just couldn't get a bead on Orochimaru. The guy was skulking around in what used to be his own backyard using all of the secret channels and knowledge of the village's defenses he was intimately familiar with. Orochimaru was a black-ops agent and couldn't be pinned down, and they couldn't disrupt the chuunin exams and make themselves publicly vulnerable without exposing themselves as deceptively weak at the time.
>Never properly trained Naruto
This is definitely a failure, but it's not like the Leaf ever really trained their Jinchuriki anyway. They had like 3 in their entire history prior because the Uzumaki kept that shit locked down and none of them were really active combatants. Kushina seldom left the village and while she had some skills, she was very clearly neglected compared to people like Bee or Roshi. For some reason, the Leaf chose not to leverage their bijuu as a military asset like most of the villages did.
>Assigned team 7 to a jounnin level misson
It was C rank initially and it was only bumped up after it was discovered Tazuna had assassins on his tail. That was on Kakashi choosing to continue the mission.

>>281082792
man i can understand seeing it and not being able to not drink it. big weight cuts are bitch.

>>281079624
That incident was just a drop in the bucket compared to all of the other shit all of the villages have done to each other. Did you forget that Cloud ninja killed Tobirama?
Just being from a village that perpetrated a crime against yours isn't grounds to immediately dismiss someone. There were other reasons to tell her to piss off, but that isn't nearly as relevant to that situation.

>>281076993
It makes no difference in the practical sense.

>>281081765
Can you?

>>281083460
The point was that cloud was acting as if they were the aggrieved party when they should have been told to fuck off. The likes of Hinata and Neji should have commented their lack of trust or discomfort over the alliance at least.

>>281074211 (OP)
>uses childs soldiers
Like everyone else in Naruto's universe? Konoha literally sends 13 yo kids to escort missions

>>281083584
I mean it was a rogue Leaf ninja that allegedly captured their comrade. They couldn't have known Bee just fucked off using Sasuke's attack as a cover.
Failing to rein in their own wayward elements is the fault of the Leaf and it adversely affected the Cloud. Their village committing a crime in the past doesn't absolve the Leaf of their blunder.

>>281082575
This scene always bothered me as a kid because I couldn't notice any major difference between his "disguise" and his normal self so it felt like an incredibly weird flex. "Watch me turn from slightly less me to me" like ok

>>281083119
A lot of that godlike power was temporary and handful of fuckoff strong dudes getting the jump on him could probably detain him.

>>281083393
>For some reason, the Leaf chose not to leverage their bijuu as a military asset like most of the villages did.
Hashirama
Remember that he distributed the bijuu. He actively advocated if not for a peace, then at least a balance which would mitigate power struggles, and his legacy in the form of the Will of Fire is the core of Konoha's policies and no one drunk that kool-aid more than Hiruzen.
Every clan all over the continent figured out that the village system was great, but not for the reasons that Hashbrown wanted it to be. Hashirama wanted to end clan wars by bringing clans together, but every other clan apart from Senju and their allies basically just invented nationalism to replace clan feuds with, but Konoha didn't get the memo about the active WMD developement

>>281083637
>Failing to rein in their own wayward elements is the fault of the Leaf
Don't see any other villege have to take responsibility for their ninja who end up in akatsuki. And even if we do take in full value, so we what? They can just walk in there and start bullying and making demands?

You guys read too much into the series, Kishimoto didn't think of any of what you guys are talking about, the whole story takes place during Naruto's teenage years, so don't treat it anything other a coming-of-age story of two boys and their weird friendship.

>>281083802
No one said it was logical. It was definitionally an emotional feud.
>They can just walk in there and start bullying and making demands
Who's going to stop them? The Cloud was still in pretty good shape even without their jinchuriki and the Leaf was downtrodden. They were just throwing their weight around along with their grievances. It was essentially just them taking out their frustrations on the hero of the Leaf who refused to fight back.

>>281083871
>so don't treat it anything other a coming-of-age story of two boys and their weird friendship.
Yaoi?

>>281083871
>the most powerful jutsu in all the world is talk-no-jutsu
stupidity doesn't excuse the mangaka

>>281083871
Yeah and Moby Dick is only about a crazy captain who wants to kill a whale.
That's not how narrative works, it's up to the audience to analyse what they see in the text
Naruto is still shit

>>281075361
It's even funnier to see Konohamaru recording the man that killed his grandfather for Naruto's wedding, and he couldn't give less of a shit.

>>281083909
I wish, they kissed mouth to mouth but we didn't see them camping or being together for long periods of time alone without supervision.

>>281083491
yes but legally the "new" orochimaru is a completely new person

>>281083974
He was taught to give people second chances.

>>281083584
The problem is that it was a really covert operation, and it was their RAIKAGE who got killed trying to kidnap the hyuga bitch

So this was like a massive diplomatic incident, but only the higher-ups and ANBU really knew the truth
The Leaf was in a situation where they had to either say
>Your faggot-ass Raikage invaded our village and we killed him. We're going to WAR (a war they couldn't win)
or
>We'll give you this one Hyuga guy whose entire purpose since he was born was to be sacrificed in place of his brother, for situations exactly like this
and Neji's dad VOLUNTEERED in order to avoid a war

what was Hiruzen supposed to say? No? The nigga volunteered and you can avoid a war by just sacrificing one guy whose entire job is to be sacrificed.

>>281083974
It's impossible that NOBODY in the village hasn't plotted an assassination on this guy
I guess the problem is that the only guys who could even kill him would refuse to enter the plot so the families of his thousand victims are just there seething

>>281083802
>Don't see any other villege have to take responsibility for their ninja who end up in akatsuki.
The Mizukage was ruled out for leading the Alliance for that very reason, and Ohnoki got passed over too because his village had been clients of Akatsuki

>>281082681
>they are the only great village that is confirmed by Kishimoto to be STRONGER than the Leaf Village
When does he say that? And how are they stronger than guys like Guy, Naruto or Hashirama?

>>281084074
Why was the Raikage himself the one in this secret op at all?
Why was his presence was required?

>>281083886
You did
>Their village committing a crime in the past doesn't absolve the Leaf of their blunder.
What blunder?
>Might makes right
Which is exactly why cloud sucks. They pull all kinds of stunts with that justification and then acting like they are the one who has been denied justice.

>>281084086
man, Orochimaru is on a trading card now, like baseball cards
the new generation wants his AUTOGRAPH

I can understand treating Naruto like a random orphan but why was Hiruzen so lenient with Danzo

>>281084126
NTA but it's basically confirmed by Hiruzen saying the leaf couldn't take the cloud in a straight up war
>And how are they stronger than guys like Guy, Naruto or Hashirama?
First off Hashirama is dead
at the time of the incident, Naruto was a baby
Guy is strong, yes. They have Guy and Kakashi who are strong guys.
but the Cloud has 2 Jinchuriki and their average Jonins smoke konoha jonins except for a few exceptions
Darui shits all over Kakashi and they have lots of guys on his level

>>281084116
Wasn't it because the last Mizukage, the one who commited genocide against the bloodline users, was a puppet of Akatsuki?

>>281084259
He just had a soft spot for him
Hiruzen was kind of a mess, he admits it himself later

>>281084302
Yeah, Yagura had been under Obito's control for like a decade and Akatsuki was founded in their village and flourished there, so they were ruled out for leading the alliance because of the possiblity that the entire leadership structure might have been compromised by sleeper agents over all those years

>>281084259
War buddy, high official in the village, handles the dirty shit that the third Hokage was too soft to do himself, knows that he loves Konoha as much as he does.

>>281084195
This raises a lot of question
Did Orochimaru pose for that trading card?
Like, Konami of Konoha (Konohami) made Jutsu-oh and called Orochimaru to make some faces on set with a professional photographer going "yeah baby, more tongue, look here, use your eyes, fuck the camera, you're good, very photogenic"?
Who is on those cards? Everyone who was relevant in the political and military recent history? If so did they print foreign political leaders like the Raikage, Kazekage etc? Did they ask for permission? And if yes, did people like Gaara have a similar photoshoot?

>>281083974
>>281084195
Is there any anime or manga that has a more "got away with everything" character than Orochimaru? He didn't even go on a redemption arc or get talk-no-jutsu'd or anything, he just kept following his own self-interest, ended up on the right side of the war, and eventually got pardoned to the point where he can keep doing what he loves with just a lone guy to keep watch over him, which almost feels like more of a punishment for Yamato than Orochimaru. The man's a winner in all but name.

>>281084353
Which is very different from having a missing nin from 3 years somehow be used to hold the entire leaf accountable by the same village that pretends they can do what they want because they're stronger

Considering teenage Itachi soloed all of them did the Uchiha even have a chance of making a revolution

>>281084553
WW2 German scientists?

>>281084564
>try a coup
>fail at first and get driven into a corner
>mental anguish makes them awaken their sharingans and mangekyous
>win
Yes. Outside of just actually killing them or doing Naruto levels of handreaching, the Leaf would fall to the Uchiha.

>>281084564
Obito helped him kill the men, so the women and the elderly had no chance against him.

>>281084553
>a lone guy to keep watch over him, which almost feels like more of a punishment for Yamato than Orochimaru.
Can Yamato even do anything to Orochimaru if he ever thinks about going rogue again or if he gets up to some shit? I get his job is to monitor him to alert the big dogs who can stop him, but it's like having Yamcha follow Vegeta around after Namek "just in case", the fuck is he going to do?

>>281084564
>teenage Itachi
Teenage Itachi could have soloed more than one village, it's not a Uchiha weakness problem

>>281084564
If the Uchiha weren't so retarded, they should've tried to work with the enemies of Konoha to back them.

>>281084553
Dragon Ball Super also has Frieza just walk around freely and continue to tyrannize the universe after the ToP arc. Which is fucking bizarre since you'd think at least Vegeta would want to go and kill him (something which he should be able to do).

>>281084815
Everyone in Super is retarded, it's like a parody of what the casual perception of DB is

>>281084669
If anything Yamato's precence is just symbolic, like "Hey remember we've got an alliance, also don't get too crazy with your experiments again", but Orochimaru has no incentive to act out. Motherfucker has his own now legitimate village and can do exactly what he wants, he doesn't need to step on Konoha and Naruto's toes

>>281084513
>Who is on those cards? Everyone who was relevant in the political and military recent history? If so did they print foreign political leaders like the Raikage, Kazekage etc? Did they ask for permission? And if yes, did people like Gaara have a similar photoshoot?
There was a whole little mini arc where the plot was that the new kids were going around collecting all these cards, and yeah, they have basically everybody
They even made a special edition of Hinata where she's in a lewd Santa costume, for the holidays
Did Hinata sign off on that, and go to a photoshoot? ....Probably

The big punchline/thru-plot was that Shino wasn't didn't have a card, and he was really bummed out about it but trying not to let it show. Even Kiba had a card, and Shino was like
>what the fuck, man...

>>281084553
>which almost feels like more of a punishment for Yamato than Orochimaru
Yeah seriously talk about a shit job detail
He goes from one of the village's top Jonins, in charge of the team with the jinchuriki on it, to being Orochimaru's fucking babysitter for 10+ YEARS

that's the payment he gets for basically rebuilding the entire village by himself using his wood style? TWICE?
free my mans

>>281084312
Minato is such a ballwasher holy shit
>nah hiruzen your pussy is fire b

>>281084815
>Dragon Ball Super also has Frieza just walk around freely and continue to tyrannize the universe after the ToP arc
Hey man, they wouldn't have won without him
I think saving all of existence warrants letting bygones be bygones

>>281074211 (OP)
Does anyone in Boruto's generation even know of Orochimaru's horrible crimes?

>>281084669
>Can Yamato even do anything to Orochimaru if he ever thinks about going rogue again or if he gets up to some shit?
No, but that's not his job, it's like you said he's just there to moniter him and let the bigwigs know if anything weird comes up

People often forget this because it was a throwaway line way back in early part 2, but Yamato is supposed to be THE best Tracker in the leaf village
That's part of why he was put in charge of New Team 7, because they suspected Sai was gonna doublecross and try to slip away during the mission

>>281085198
>They even made a special edition of Hinata where she's in a lewd Santa costume, for the holidays
What the fuck
Why is the Hokage okay with his wife being used as a sex-appealing object for a trading card game?
Was there Sasuke as well? If yes, how di they got him, being a wanderer and all?

>>281084964
>Motherfucker has his own now legitimate village
yeah that's one detail I like about the new-gen stuff
he turned Otogakure into a legit village and is, in fact, the Otokage

>>281085293
They do, but it's viewed more as like
>woaah what a dangerous guy, how cool, I heard he's also a legendary war hero
like they really don't give that much of a shit
>>281085350
Naruto and Boruto didn't know
They were....surprised

>>281085350
yeah sasuke had a card too
the whole joke was that literally everybody of any import ever had a card
....except Shino

>>281085321
>let the bigwigs know if anything weird comes up
>Yamato is supposed to be THE best Tracker in the leaf village
I suspect that if Orochimaru starts on of his crazy schemes a genius scout won't be necessary to notice something is going awry
He's not exactly subtle

>>281085375
>Naruto and Boruto didn't know
>They were....surprised
HINATA DID IT BEHIND HIS HUSBAND'S BACK?
What is going on

>>281085404
>sasuke had a card too
Sasuke accepting to do a photoshoot is even less believable than Orochimaru doing it
Did dead guys like the Fourth Hokage have a card?

>>281084564
>Considering teenage Itachi soloed all of them
He didn't, Obito helped
They took them by surprise also
Itachi said he couldn't have done it alone

>>281085198
> Even Kiba had a card
not just that, but even Kiba's fucking dog had his own card

>>281085441
She's a little secret slut of a housewife, that's what

>>281085477
yeah all the dead legends had cards too
I really don't know how they got the photos
....jutsu?

>>281085477
we know Orochimaru at least didn't do a photoshoot, because when they showed him the card they wanted him to sign he was confused and didn't know what the fuck it was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQSptp7_HJ8

>>281085573
>I really don't know how they got the photos
They clearly asked Orochimaru to use Edo Tensei to bring those dead legends back for a quick photoshoot

>>281085477
>even less believable than Orochimaru doing it
Nevermind it's a gag which means that some canonicity is ignored to facilitate a joke, like these things always go, but Orochimaru is like one of the most believable people to do this, especially now that he's mellowed out. There's probably only three or four people in Naruto that'd have more penchant for flair and to put up a good performance than he, and one of those is dead

>>281085644
he really has mellowed out a LOT by the time of Boruto

>>281085606
He seems more surprised by what he's reading, like the card is downplaying his role or his power
He doesn't seem surprised by the existance of the card itself
Maybe he did the photoshoot without knowing the final version of the card

>>281074211 (OP)

Him surviving everything and basically being Satan the friendly neighbor in the new age after the series is honestly pretty great though. Its one of the only genuinely interesting things about Boruto or the end of Naruto in general. He really did get away with everything.

>>281085699
Yeah I can't remember exactly if he's upset at the description on the card, or if he thought his Rarity should be higher
But you can clearly tell in that clip when he's like "what is this..?" that he didn't now they were making trading cards of niggas now

>>281085350
He also was on the cards

>>281084553
meanwhile during the war he had tsunade convinced that Juriya would turn evil eventually had he survived.

>>281085702
>hurr durr hard work no short cuts
Say that again with your shinobi jesus blood faggot.

>>281085830
yeah seriously
>Kakashi tells Naruto he has shit chakra control and needs to go practice the fundamentals like water-walking with Ebisu
>Naruto sucks at it
>Keeps trying anyway
>Jiraiya finally shows up and tells Ebisu to fuck off
>"Oh, your 9-tails seal is just on there wrong. Let me fix that for you"
>Naruto can now instantly walk on water and has much better chakra control
THAT'S CALLED A SHORTCUT, NARUTO

>>281085702
I guess being born with a huge chakra pool and then gifted with the 9-tails on top of it, allowing you to make 2,000 fucking clones and use them all to fast-track training that would take years
is not a shortcut?

>>281074211 (OP)
what does any of that have to do with narutards?

>>281084269
Pretty sure the uchiha were still alive. It was pure cowardice on hiruzen’s part.

>>281086020
The average Uchiha wasn't worth much

>>281074211 (OP)
I will never understand unrepentant villains getting away in mangas. Arent asian countries infamous about their " you fucks up once and you are done in life" rule?? Getting caught smoking weed? You are done. Make it make sense.

>>281086020
The point is that a full-on war with the Cloud would have been disastrous for the village even if they could win, the casualties would have been insane and they had just come off a huge string of catastrophes and losses

Hiruzen had the option to sacrifice 1 single guy, who was volunteering to do it, in order to avoid a war
That's not an easy decision to make, but Hiruzen made the right one for the village

>>281086020
>Cloud has 2 Jinchurikis, one of them is a perfect Jin
>Leaf's jinchuriki is an infant
do the math

>>281082706
...I would say Kakashi uses his Sharigan pretty well? He even went to evolve a 2 tomoe Sharigan to a Magekyou Sharigan. If anything, it seems more that the issue is that Kakashi became "lazy" after the events with Obito and Rin. Before that he was very prodigious even without the sharigan.

>>281086123
Yeah, he uses it "well", but it's still a constant drain on his chakra. He can't just spam it, and it's not even up for debate that a pure Uchiha body utilizes the sharingan much better than implanting it into a non-Uchiha body
That's stated explicitly by Orochimaru. It's why he wants Sasuke. He wants the body that goes WITH the eyes because it's way better.

>>281086123
the small amount he used his sharingan during the Zabuza fight basically put him in a coma for a week

>>281086093
>unrepentant villains getting away in mangas
That's what they wish happened in WW2.

>>281086123
Kakashi uses his sharingan well because he has the skills to be one of the best shinobi around even without it. It's sparing, only momentary. Either a last resort, or even just an intimidation tactic. He gets absolutely fucked the moment he uses it even a little bit more continuously

>>281085293
Of course not, they cover all that shit up, Sarada couldn't even find any information on the Uchiha massacre in the library.
The Konoha Government rewrites and covers up history even more than the real world Japanese Government about WWII.

>>281086123
He actually had Mangekyo ever since Rin died, he unlocked it when Obito unlocked his, except he passed out right after and didn't realize he had Mangekyo, or even knew what Mangekyo was
until he ran into Itachi, and realized there is a higher level of Sharingan, then during the timeskip he trained it

but he had it since he was like 13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDUCUQ0DQAY

>>281086262
just an excuse to post this scene because it's cool as fuck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNJeOJ72edo

>>281086174
>>281086199
>>281086213
>>281086262
But multiple other characters seem to get eyes transplant without much problem. The most extreme example being Danzo that constantly spam Izanagi like it was nothing. There are dudes that appear even with one Byakugan. Or how Madara had put his eyes on Nagato.
And in Orochimaru's case, he even had access to Senju cells (since he was even able to revive the first hokage) that seems to mitigate all kinds of conditions, and knowledge of their equivalent of cell engineering (like with the cursed mark).

>>281086413
>The most extreme example being Danzo that constantly spam Izanagi like it was nothing.
He was only able to do this because he had implanted Hashirama's super-magic goop cells into himself

I dont know why you're arguing this, it's canon. It's in the story. We are explicitliy told that a non-uchiha body cannot make as good use of the sharingan as a real Uchiha body.
It is a fact

>>281086413
>And in Orochimaru's case, he even had access to Senju cells
Yeah and he used Danzo as the guinea pig for this kind of process, but ultimately decided that it wasn't the way he wanted to go
Why?
Because as soon as Danzo dipped lown on chakra, the hashirama cells went apeshit and a giant fucking tree grew out of him and his body started breaking down

Orochimaru didn't want that. He wanted
>An Uchiha body
>To go with the Uchiha bloodline ability
It's that fucking shrimple

>>281085702
NEJI WAS RIGHT

>>281086520
Not really. Neji's whole point was that you can't change the fate you're born into. Clearly you can.

>>281074211 (OP)
he did it for the lulz

>>281086642
Naruto was fated to be OP

>>281086703
maybe Neji should have worked harder : )

>>281087001
What's this?

>>281074466
I can never get over how much of a wasted character Anko is...but I guess that's a lot of characters in Naruto

>>281087399
>but I guess that's a lot of characters in Naruto
Name a shonen without wasted characters

>>281084185
I didn't say it was logical. I said I can understand it. You can understand an emotionally-charged incident without thinking it logical.
>What blunder?
Letting a criminal run loose to assault their village during peacetime. Fact of the matter is that they let Sasuke escape and never retrieved or executed him in the years to follow.
>They pull all kinds of stunts with that justification
Individual members of the village do not represent the whole. Yes, the Cloud effectively runs on might makes right, but they also live in a world that has shown them that is the case for decades. If they keep getting away with it, then why should they stop?
They were wronged by Sasuke in this case and he is a blunder of the Leaf, so they used that as justification to vent their frustrations over the matter. Them having wronged the Leaf in the past has nothing to do with that incident.

>>281085920
because anyone that defends Naruto is a retard

>>281084006
They have no such sense of legality or personhood. He was effectively revived by ninja magic and is the same person. It's still a piece of him taking over a new body each time. At that point you'd have to play semantics as to whether it was a completely new person every time he transferred bodies.

>>281087487
I genuinely don't think I can come up with one.. maybe YYH? granted it's been forever since I read it maybe Gatch Bell?

>>281087615
>At that point you'd have to play semantics as to whether it was a completely new person every time he transferred bodies.
Considering he told that one guy that "part of your consciousness will merge with mine, you won't disappear completely"
yeah
I think it is kind of complicated as to wether it's still "the same person" after the ritual

>>281077413
Orochimaru takes time out of his schedule to hate the Hokage for picking the Fourth, Jiraya, Tsunade, and Naruto over him. I find it hilarious that Orochimaru doesn't have personal hatred for Naruto given his dad is Hokage. His Japanese is strange because Orochimaru sees the Third as a father who failed him and Tsunade as a friend enough to revive Dan with Edo Tensei. Naruto only opposed him out of duty to the Leaf, but never personally venomous the same way Goku spits venom at Babidi for stealing talent.

Tanjiro would see past that above good and evil BS these old anime villains do, then cut them. Orochimaru is just useful for reversing the modifications the same way the scientist in Taiminin reverses all those transformations.

>>281075131
Fucking this. His negligence turned him into the most evil character of part one

>>281087487
Ashita no Joe?
Sengoku Yoko?
Lucifer and Biscuit Hammer?
Spirit Circle?
Devilman?

>>281088005
Naruto is up front about how raising your son to be a killer is the best way to care. It's not like Dragonball where Paragus, King Cold, Vegeta, and Piccolo hide behind family honor. Even Bardock dismissed Raditz and Goku as failures

>>281084553
Yeagh Sasuke. Remember that conversation in the boat?

>>281077413
>If an antagonist is repentant
>Orochimaru
???

>>281085877
That's not a shortcut. Orochimaru fucked up his seal. All Jiraiya did was unfuck his shit.

>>281086093
They're only like that about crimes that are bad for their image AND don't benefit them. Drug abuse is a crime for louts with no future. War crimes are useful and can be covered up or spun in a different light with some good PR.
Ironically, petty crimes are much worse to get caught with in some cases because you didn't contribute to society or worsened its image without providing anything of value in return. Organized crime pays and can be beneficial to a nation's economy and security in some cases, which is why the yakuza exists.

>>281084074
>their RAIKAGE who got killed
Wait I didnt remember being him... does it mean Hinatas father killed a fucking Kage without any help?
Cloud would have been known as clown village if so

>>281084074
The Raiakage just doesn't work in Naruto. He doesn't need the tailed beasts and presumably would just raise the Hyugas to be /fit/ and with Hinata having a backbone. She needs Samui to teach her to handle the rack.

>>281074211 (OP)
It's literally the most accurate thing to real life

>>281088288
>does it mean Hinatas father killed a fucking Kage without any help?
I dunno about "without any help", but yeah
hyuga are the strongest in the leaf, bitch

>>281087399
Kishimoto just absolutely hates women. He's gay so it's understandable.

>>281088564
>>281088288
Nope, common misconception, and rightly so because it's confusing
He was the Head Ninja of Kumogakure

>Head Ninja (忍頭, Shinobigashira) is a position in the shinobi system of Kumogakure. It is a rank between jōnin and Kage, and unique to its own village.

so basically their #2 guy
this asshole
I guess maybe the closest comparison would be he was like their Danzo?

>>281074393
It makes no sense because be never claimed Tsunade or Anko as a spoil of war

>>281088672
So basically the Leaf traded one of their top guys for the "crime" of defending the Hyuga heiress from being abducted by one of the Cloud's top guys
In order to avoid all-out war, they just agreed to call it a draw at trading top guys, and forget the incident ever happened

Is that some pussy shit on Hiruzen's part? That's for Lord 3rd's single fan to decide.

>>281082252
Everything about Boruto is criminal

>>281088842
Mirai is cute but I guess she's not excuslively Boruto content

>>281074211 (OP)
Well they did kill him for being a dick. Multiple times even. The problem is just that he doesn't die when you kill him, so there's not much point in killing him after he's gotten over his destroying the village phase and chilled out.
Sasuke and Kabuto are kind of in the same boat. They should all be rotting in prison for their crimes, but no one can really enforce that besides Naruto and they're not actively causing trouble anymore anyway, so there's not much to do about it.

>>281088768
Tsunade explain the Leaf lost most of its manpower after the exams, which is why she used sand and genin to track Sasuke. Even Iruka had to do missions since the academy got closed.

>>281088939
Sure but putting Kabuto in charge of an orphanage is fucking insane, more so when the orphanage got filled with Uchiha shits.

>>281088939
Well also you have to remember that it was Kakashi, not Naruto, who was the Hokage during and after the war
Of course somebody like Kakashi would agree with you, and see the utility of keeping these guys around "on a leash" as long as they're not causing problems

>>281088983
He got mindfucked by THE Itachi Uchiha
He a good boi now and you can take that to the bank

>>281088983
I think it'd because Orochimaru has an army of bloodthirsty demons in the Sound, and the genin are the spokesperson. Without them you have an army of violent tards with bloodlust who can threaten the army

>>281074211 (OP)
Anon.... how do you think America got to the moon?

>>281089077
not in Apollo 11 that's for sure

>>281088672
Konoha could have still won (Uchiha were still around, Itachi was BEAST and Hokage Candidate and Jiraiya would have beaten Bee like red-headed stepchild). Issue was that Konoha's victory would have been a bloody one and probably pyrrhic one as well if any of the other Ninja villages decided to get in on the action so Hiruzen pussied out

Real culprit for this shit is Minato who didn't ever bother punishing Cloud for the shit they pulled before since while he was still around he could have easily soloed A and B and forced Cloud to be stop being a dick but apparently Minato was into Netorase since he just let A get away with trying to turn his girlfriend into broodmare

>>281088983
Out of all of them, Kabuto is the one who actually got mind raped into being a better person. Sauce and Orochimaru are operating in a more hazy area of "Naruto feels like they learned their lesson, so that's that I guess".

>>281088990
Not like Kakashi himself could do much about them.

>>281089183
>Not like Kakashi himself could do much about them
He could, but it would probably be way more trouble than it's worth
Especially since Kabuto is literally mindraped into compliance with no signs of that ever changing, and even if you did "kill" Orochimaru....you didn't

but apparently everybody agreed that Danzo would be recorded in history as a huge piece of shit
I'm sure the rest of the Shimura clan appreciates being the only ones not pardoned by history

>>281089138
>Issue was that Konoha's victory would have been a bloody one and probably pyrrhic one as well if any of the other Ninja villages decided to get in on the action
Yeah that's exactly my point, it's not so much that Konoha COULDN'T wage a war against the Cloud
the question is if that's worth it, over this single incident, because it would be really bloody and taxing even if they won and you're right it would only weaken them further in the aftermath

it basically comes down to, for Hiruzen
>do I risk a big war, and potentially future wars or god forbid another Major Shinobi War over this particular incident?

>>281086119
Guy alone could clap both of them together. that's with 7 gates. with 8 gates he could obliterate whole Kumo and give Raikage a good slap on his way. you are absolutely missing the point by pretending they couldn't win that war. they could but they would have lost even more fighting force and would be unable to get anything out of that war. suna got shafted because it's a joke village, Leaf couldn't hold down Kumo at all.

>>281089461
Guy was like 14

>>281089489
probably banging girls and releasing gates for hardcore boner

>>281088939
This is a setting with seals strong enough to imprison godlike beings. Surely they could do what they did to the Tailed Beasts but to Orochimaru?

>>281082651
It definitely caught up with her.

>>281084195
Who did Lee fuck?

>>281089489
>in the springtime of his youth
you think this makes him WEAKER?

>>281089645
We don't know, but there are theories...

>>281089489
false. he was around 17-18, which is young but it's linked with Gates
>can use 7 gates
>can wash both Yugito and Bee

>>281089700
Yeah Guy is a tactical nuke no doubt, but that doesn't win a war once he's burned out

>>281089138
Torishima says that battled are too much talking nowadays and not fluid. He thinks Mangaka are arrogant or too dark.

>>281089645
there was an old image circulating when boruto first came out of a "relationship chart" that had Lee having been married to Ten-Ten but later divorced
but its' legitimacy was never confirmed

>>281074211 (OP)
Immediately after the war the show becomes a gag series. It was played for laughs.

>>281089645
No one, don't believe the lies, it was mitosis.

>>281089138
>Real culprit for this shit is Minato
Hinata was born so he was long dead before this incident

>>281089808
I don’t believe that because Ten-Ten being too autistic to get married is funny.

>>281084195
>you killed 1/8 of our family tree, our parents aquitances, evaluating your next body host out of our school performance
>I BEG YOUR AUTOGRAPH SNAKE SAMA
The whole Bort story is a massive shitpost

>>281089902
yeah it was almost certainly fake
the reality is we have no idea
there must always be a green jumpsuit karate guy, that's all there is to it

>>281089998
When will Metal Lee get his crow powers?

>>281089984
>new generation doesn't even know or care about things that happened before they were born
seems accurate to me

>>281089902
She's too busy moving in on Asuma's daughter

>>281089742
oh it doesn't but there simply aren't left too many opponents that could be a huge threat with Jiraya and Hiruzen around. at this point of time, Uchihas were around as well, 2 had Mangekyou. if there weren't anyone to stop all of those at the same time on different spots, there would be huge loses during every interaction. in the end the elite shinobi are the ones that decide the final result of the fight.

>>281074556
>>281075109
It was under Hokage orders. Kek. Narukeks didn't even watch their own anime.

>>281090091
It's hard to really get an accurate represenation or idea of how big the different villages are, too
Konoha looks pretty big but I mean like population numbers
because if the Cloud Village has like twice the population of the Leaf and can field twice as many Jonin then that's a big deal

but we never get a good sense of scale for these countries or villages honestly

>>281090114
yeah hiruzen ordered a genocide
they're not wrong

>>281090301
Yeah it's a complete joke. we are led to believe that some 30 graduates a year and at best couple of chuunin is a norm for the village and then turns out each village has like thousands of shinobi in its service.

>>281090114
Yeah and he chose to follow those orders instead of rebelling.

>>281089583
There are as many backups of Orochimaru as there are curse marks. He can just emerge from any of them once the main body dies.

>>281090625
plus what even is the "main body"?
his true form was a giant snake made of more snakes
it seems like it's just snakes all the way down, man

>>281074272
And a skibidi gyatt ohio rizz to you, young lady.

>>281074211 (OP)
ENTER

>>281082606
>locked up
What prison could hold End of Shippuden Sasuke?
If you put that guy in a cell, that shit's on the fucking honor system. Nigga could be walking out the door to go get McDonald's whenever he feels like it and there isn't a damn thing anyone in the village could do about it besides cry to Naruto.

>>281091014
you could just rip his eyes out

>>281091076
that's not even a big deal in naruto
you can keep them in a jar and tell him he'll get them plugged back in later if he behaves
that's how eyeballs work in naruto

>>281091076
Susanoo seems to work without eyes once you unlocked the ability.

>>281091157
well then they have to get creative with their sealing jutsus
there are ways

Has any series been murdered by power creep more than Naruto? It forgot it's entire setting just to be another flavor of DBZ,

>>281091232
Yu Yu Hakusho

>>281091232
Zabuza and the Chunin Exams were the peak of Naruto. The Akatsuki coming in and showing off different unique powers was fun.
Everything else runs from pretty mediocre to complete ass.

>>281074211 (OP)
You forgot the part where he made himself a hotter, younger body and an ubermensch albino clone son to molest, then he cloned the clone when he hit the wall and started shipping him with the protagonist's son. Oh, and he also made fun of his old boytoy's loser of a wife to his face, stole his other psycho fangirl and male underlings, and forced the protagonists' former sensei he cruelly experimented on as a baby to waste his life away watching him living his best life and spending quality time with his family. What an absolute legend.

>>281091318
I remember watching it on Toonami, and when it was said, during the third hokage fight, that what was being seen was basically top-tier shit, and it was rare to see. Thinking it was cool. Then baby tier ninjas were pulling off stuff that blew everything else out of the water after the time skip. I knew something was off. Also, whatever happened to the world outside the ninja one? Ya know, the people these Ninjas got work from?

>>281085477
Edo Tensei some dead guys to pose for a card game. Brutal. They probably just used transformation jutsus and took photos.

>>281085633
>>281091953
>Yo, Orochimaru, we'll give you this forbidden jutsu scroll if you'll dig up those famous corpses again for our TCG.

basically unit 731 in WW2

>>281089044
Didn't they all escape or die or someshit? IIRC, the Sound was a sham village, and the majority of Orochimaru's people didn't work for him willingly. They were mostly prisoners he experimented on, freed by Sasuke after Orochimaru's "death." Even Kabuto who used to be staunchly loyal to Orochimaru ultimately gave up on him to follow his own goals.

>>281084195
Is this Kabuto's side hassle?

>>281085744
>Jiraiya santa
I can't believe they edo tensei'd him just for this...

>>281086642
No, Neji was right about that. Where he went wrong was his assumption that the very moment you fail or find yourself in a unprivileged position in the hierarchy you cement yourself as a failure and a loser being forever delegated to such positions by fate itself. He was self-conceited enough to think that he knew his fate and the fates of others only to be proven wrong by being defeated by one whose fate he deemed to be a failure and a loser

>>281086642
>Clearly you can.
Neji died for the main branch, just like he was born to do.

>>281092664
Yes. Since all the konoha jounin were too busy being housewives and ninja and shit to go to a photoshoot, they decided to borrow the services of a retired master of disguise. That happened to be Kabuto. The sexy santa edition was actually his idea.

>>281093078
No, I mean ninja baseball cards in general. He had a trial version of those during the chunin exam

>>281093190
Yeah, he was behind everything from the start. He just really wanted to wear that sexy santa suit.

>>281085807
Wait what? I don't remember this

>>281093019
Yeah but it was his choice to do it
Nobody forced him
All he ever wanted was the ability to choose for himself, and he did

>>281074211 (OP)
>Hollywoodtards seething about war criminals getting away with everything
I laff at you. I laff at you harder.

>>281082623
He could already transfer his consciousness way before he got the goop bodies.

>>281082651
Why do sexually abused children always get fat later in their lives even though they used to look pretty before?

>>281094166
yeah but it was a rough process
with the goop bodies he can do it whenever, and it drastically increases his regeneration
they're like a "perfect donor"
it's WAY easier for him now

>>281083119
I still don't know what Sakura saw in him. At least Hinata had something that could relate to Naruto growing up as a pariah.

How many more generations of playing Wacky Uncle Orochimaru will it be before everyone lets down their guard and he snatches one of Sasuke's descendants for their Sharingan?

>>281094296
What's stopping him from sneaking a Saruda hair and just cloning some Uchiha for himself?

>>281094265
she's even crazier than he is
they're made for each other

The leaf village is a metaphor for the blind justice of neoliberalism

>>281094296
>>281094427
Seriously, it makes absolutely no sense he hasn't tried, by this point he should have a bunch of manufactured Rinnegan eyes laying around.

>>281094467
Crazy in what way? Women like bad boys. This just looks like typical woman behavior.

>>281094895
>typical woman behavior
yeah that's what I said
crazy

>>281084195
>War criminal
>Get printed on children's card game
>Got assigned SSR rank at that
Imagine if someone print Hitler and make him SSR

>>281095106
fair ranking

Naruto as a whole didn't age well. Weakest of the Big 3.

>>281087575
So basically it's lead's fault for letting themselves get pushed in. An individual ninja who is actually high ranking member of their village is somehow less accountable for their village than a literal rogue ninja.

>>281095305
Naruto had the strongest start but the weakest end.

>>281074211 (OP)
He cute tho.

>>281095403
In the shinobi world, fault lies with whoever can't project enough strength to say otherwise. These are glorified mercenaries who do contract killing, espionage, and wage war. If you have the strength to make demands, then you get to make demands.
If it genuinely worked out for the Cloud, then how can people even say they're wrong? Regardless, it's not about right or wrong, but the way things unfold in reality.

>>281083964
I remember reading a bunch of "Naruto is fascist" takes on Tumblr and as insane as it sounds...........I can't blame people for thinking that.

>>281083964
Wait, it WASN'T about a crazy captain who wanted to kill a whale? Was it actually about Moby's dick all along?

>>281093900
>herp derp good guy lives long enough and he'll become a villain
Basically this, and he used the reverse argument to explain why he decided to help. everyone. It was when he rescued tsunade after she got cut in half.

>>281095840
Kishi is a very conservative Japanese man and he comes from a generation of creators that shift toward the far right so it's not unplausible

>>281095305
Naruto is leagues better than at least Bleach up until the Pain arc, then it just plummets.
It's amazing Bleach didn't suffer the same fate after Aizen was defeated although the ending wasn't that strong.

>>281083393
>They just couldn't get a bead on Orochimaru.
Dude was standing there all the time. Anyway Konoha Intel and defense fucking sucks(every village desu)
>new small village out of nowhere
>Orochimaru invaded chunnin exams
>Jonnin dude oddly similar to orochimaru with snake eyes
No wonder why was so easy for him and akatsuki to take all the bijus

Someone explain why is Kazekage color blue despite being dark green for previous kazekages but also light green for Gaara

>>281097037
Maybe the Kazekages get to pick their favorite color for their special hats of office

>>281074211 (OP)
Yeah? Well i have a snake like Michael Jackson who wants to wear my skin.

Why did the art become shit in shippuden?
Did they think people will watch it no matter how shit it looks, so they got lazy?

>>281082606
>tfw the whole writing budget in Bort went to this scene

>>281095305
>>281095581
>>281096315
Naruto is a masterpiece through the entire series including the war arc and Kaguya

Suppose Hiruzen made Orochimaru 4th Hokage instead of Minato, how would have the events changes? Orochimaru obviously stays loyal to the Leaf since he's now its supreme ruler like he had wanted all along and I would imagine that rest of the Leaf would back him up and be loyal to him. I guess Orochimaru would be more aggressive than Minato was since he wanted to experiment with all those fancy foreign Bloodline Limits and didn't buy into Jiraiya's kumbayah dreams like Minato did. Would Oro as Hokage be able to:
1) somehow derail Obito's plan of ambushing Kushina when she's giving birth?
2) How would Ororchimaru respond to Kumo attempting to yoink Hinata?
For 1), I would argue yes since Minato would be with her from the start without the burden of being Hokage slowing him down. This would cuck Obito hard since I don't see him being able to beat his Sensei in 1v1 or successfully able to wound Kushina with Minato there to protect her from the get go. For 2), I don't see him hesitating to declare war like Hiruzen regardless of the state of Leaf.

What do my fellow anons think?

>>281082606
Kabuto being the director of an orphanage is pants on head retarded writing lmao Kabuto was like the most fucked up of them all and seemed to take sadistic pleasure in doing human experimentation

>>281097748
Orochimaru is literally a psycho with selfish goals he probably would have done fucked up shit

>>281097720
I can't believe there are people that actually defend the Kaguya bullshit.

>>281097785
It was foreshadowed forever man

>>281097770
> a psycho with selfish goals he probably would have done fucked up shit
Can't be worse than Hiruzen was

>>281076993
Yeah manga stated orochimaru is different since he revived

>>281097788
Absolutely delusional

Was Hiruzen the culprit for everything that happened? It's amazing how much of a fuck up he was.

>>281084195
I want his PR agent's number RIGHT NOW.

>>281097857
>refused to avenge 2nd Hokage which made Danzo spiral into paranoid nutcase he ended up becoming
>failed to raise his Team properly
>let Orochimaru walk away after catching him doing human experimentation on Konohans
>failed Minato, his village and his own family by not offering to fill in Minato for the one night his wife was giving birth with mass death as result
>refused to either raise Naruto in loving family or turn him into weapon so he ended up doing worst of the both worlds by giving him miserable childhood while keeping him useless
>this would have backfired on Konoha if Naruto was anything like other Jinchuuriki
>failed Hyuuga by letting them get away with enslaving their own family members
>failed Uchiha by not dealing with the unrest properly and going along with Danzo's plan
>failed Itachi by ordering him to kill his clan
>failed his village once again when he left Orochimaru invade it
There's probably bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting. Hiruzen isn't to blame for EVERY single thing, but he's responsible for quite a lot of bullshit

>>281084185
>They pull all kinds of stunts with that justification and then acting like they are the one who has been denied justice.
When you are a strong ninja power your belligerence can and will always be handwaved away. To the point that even bringing it up is a fucking faux pas. Describes my dad's family too
.

>>281098108
A was still retarded for making a gamble that Konoha would cuck out. If he had been wrong, Cloud would have gotten wrecked by Leaf before weakened Leaf gets bodied by the other Villages. His plan only worked because Hiruzen wasn't dumb nigger like Raikage himself was

>>281098151
>Hiruzen wasn't dumb nigger like Raikage himself was
Did you not read >>281098067?

>>281086020
Uchihas are designated cops.

>>281098108
Which makes all the retards equating leaf with America retarded. Leaf were pacifist cucks who refused to fight until there was no choice, not some imperial hegemony build on blood on lesser villeges.

>>281098215
and the first was the one who split up the tailed beasts among the militaries to help push peace. Gave Iwa, Kiri and Kumo 2 beasts while giving Taiga and Suna 1. Which meant that the larger powers got two as way to not skew the power balance, and Taiga+Suna got one as a "well at least you won't be a steamrolled instantly" insurance measure.

>>281098187
Hiruzen being failure as leader in general doesn't change the fact that the only reason A's gambit worked was because of luck. Had someone else been in charge or had Hiruzen decided to respond aggressively, Cloud would have gotten decimated regardless of how badly Konoha ended up suffering in the aftermath. Gambling on such outcome is pure retardation

>>281074211 (OP)
It turns out when you contribute majorly to the salvation of the entire planet you get some leeway.
The simple fact is he's got advanced scientific information that nobody else has. Yes, he got it through torture, murder, and unethical experimentation. And then he helped save the world. He accomplished more good than evil, no matter how you look at it. It doesn't undo his evil, but it proves the worth in keeping him around. And so he gets a lifetime of parole, with the most powerful people on the planet constantly looking over his shoulder.

>>281082200
>>281082252

Kishi himself made all these Boruto designs you idiots. Read Naruto Chapter 700 and the Naruto Gaiden manga.

>>281097788
No it wasn't, that's why it is shit. I'd be entirely fine with the ayylmaos, it's a fucking fantasy story, if Kishi had actually thought about it when coming up with the world and written something in, but he obviously didn't. An epic twist no one could have seen coming is bad fucking writing if you don't have a good record of writing a cohesive story in the first place, and Naruto's wasn't that even long before Kaguya

>>281096109
Where does this come from? What does that even fucking mean? "Shifting far right?"

>>281100375
I guess he's ESL and meant "leaning" far-right
He's implying that the average Japanese man has and inherent bias towards conservative ideas compared to the average contemporary Western guy

>>281098811
>Cloud would have gotten decimated regardless of how badly Konoha ended up suffering in the aftermath.
Did you not read the manga at all? Being able to to do an act of infiltration like that and only get a slap is a major sign Konoha did not have the power or clout to even do that. Did you forget the 4th dying, Leaf getting destroyed recently, no trained tail beast carrier. Hiruzen pushing for ear would be more retarded considering he doesn't even have full loyalty among the Covert Ops and village elders. Not to mention the civilian side of things since the Leaf is merely the military of the Land of Fire.

>>281085573
You realise transformation jutsu has been a thing since the start of the series, right?

>>281099267
>with the most powerful people on the planet constantly looking over his shoulder.
The guy is living it up in the Land of Sound since its now a legit village with him as it's Kage. All they have is Yamato watching him, asides from that all he has to do is wait shit out and he goes from mostly free to completely free once everyone around him with a grudge dies. He already has a ton of genetic material and parts, DNA manipulation and a Zetsu body. The best anyone can do now is just appease any material demands he wants and hope him playing around in covert labs across the world and playing Kage doesnt bore him.

>>281086096
The Cloud has already broken their peace treaty on the very first fucking night after they signed it. Why would they not try to attack Konoha again just because they promised not to if they gave them a Hyuga corpse?

>>281101009
It's gonna be a long damn time for Sasuke to die, considering his wife. Like, I don't mean literally in the same room with him, but how, exactly, is he going to evade or survive Sasuke at any point in his existence?

>>281074211 (OP)
It's a WW2 analogy. He is fine because he sides with the victors.

>>281101572
good logic

reasonings

>>281100985
Why don't people do infiltration mission by transforming into important guys from other villages, "bitch" it and create psyops?
>Cloud ninja trasforms into some big dog from the Sand Village
>He then infiltrates the Leaf, makes some damage, kills a child or two, makes sure to be seen, then runs way
>The Leaf now has a political feud with the Sand
Has this ever happened?

>>281102678
*"botch" it

>>281102678
Tranformation is a rudimentary skill, safe to assume that all shinobi have techniques or protocols to identify impostors. Psyops would work only with careful intelligence gathering and more conventional spying laying the groundwork
Konoha also has an entire sensor dome to probe for infiltrators. It's Yamanaka clan secret, sure, but other villages likely have their own safeguards to catch outsiders, because otherwise you're just wide open for covert activity

>>281102678
A problem with that particular scenario is that I don't think the Sand big dogs are very capable of being subtle enough to frame them for attempting infiltration.
Sasori was the most subtle Sand guy and his gag was openly walking around with the people he murdered as his new dolls.

>>281101009
>with him as it's Kage
What? When? Source?

>>281081792
kek insane aura loss

>>281102844
Burrito, or one of the post Naruto pre Boruto stuff, I can't remember where it's the first time. Regardless, it's a fairly major detail in the new era. Mitsuki, Orochimaru's "son" is technically an Otogakure student first but goes to Konoha to actually become a shinobi, because the villages have obviously close ties

>>281102974
The other kages will never accept war criminals as kage. How is the guy supposed to attend regular meetings with them being detained like that? That doesn't make any sense.

>>281102792
They can't frame the main three because their styles of killing are pretty fucking unique and obvious and the Cloud ninja would need to do more than just throw a kunai into a genin's chest, but I guess they could frame Baki, but then again who gives a shit about him?

>>281103516
I am an old man but I just don't see Naruto having focus like Kenshin to be honest about the character being a government hitman with Orochimaru and Akatsuki representing new order. You see it with Zabuza wanting to assassinate the Mizukage and Kakashi opposing him, but Orochimaru is too much of a slasher villain in a shonen. He kills for thrills.

>>281103782
>He kills for thrills.
He's not a psycho
Oro kills to further his goal of gaining power and learning everything

>>281103516
>Hey guys, Orochimaru is chill now and has my approval. He has his own village. Humor him and call him the Otokage, okay, but he mostly just wants to do his own thing and do science. Also he helped us win the war.
>Sure thing Ninja Jesus
Not like anyone can oppose Naruto (and Sasuke the unofficial second Hokage). This is like a nothing-concession from the other major villages, Orochimaru does nothing for the power balance because the power balance is that Konoha has two gods anyway

>>281104082
>the power balance is that Konoha has two gods anyway
Konoha must obey the Fire Village, right?
Why doesn't the Fire order Konoha to conquer everyone?

>>281104651
>must obey
Only insofar that the daimyo is a major client for the shinobi. The villages only have nominal loyalty to their country, they're more like very strong micronations. In this case Naruto would just refuse and the Fire daimyo would have to get his soldiers from elsewhere if he wanted to conquer. I don't remember if the world is implied to even have other armies than shinobi clans, because even if there are, a bunch of rank and file shinobi contracted from wherever are just going to destroy an ordinary fighting force.
The world wars in the setting are specifically ninja world wars, long standing clan and village feuds, the shinobi are doing entirely their own things while the civilian world is almost entirely separate from it.

>>281104651
I don't think it's a good idea to demand that Naruto and Sasuke conquer the world for you. You're more likely to piss off Sasuke and get a lightning sword through you than what you want.
Remember that the only reason the system still exists is because Naruto fought Sasuke to a draw and talk-no-jutsu-ed him out of violently tearing it all down after they stopped Kaguya.

>>281100040
The planetary devastation Jutsu pain uses foreshadows Kaguya and everything the Otsutsuki do

>>281102974
>Burrito, or one of the post Naruto pre Boruto stuff
I don't read the former, but IIRC in the gaidens Orochimaru appears to be working a skeleton crew consisting of Karin, Suigetsu, Juugo, and Log while focusing on raising Mitsuki. I think he's been talking about retiring in a kinda roundabout way ever since Sasuke revived him in Nart. "I have no interest in this war", something something following Sasuke's winds, yadda yadda. Like he was so shocked that Kabuto (who was basically his successor and the son he never had) jobbed to Uchiha that he became an even bigger Uchiha simp and a Konoha simp. He was so outclassed that he decided to just sit back and watch this new generation of superhumans do their thing, then he got himself a new successor and after he was done with training him, he put trust in Konoha to raise his son to greatness. Like he's not even evil anymore, he's just supporting his kid.

Naruto fans are actually pretty dumb for saying the Otsutsuki wasn't foreshadowed. The Sage of Six Paths was mentioned cryptically many times throughout shippuden, that was the foreshadowing. It just didn't overtly state he was an alien, but the way the planetary expansion jutsu is connected to the moon could be seen as a hint.
Even if Kishimoto did decide to add in aliens at the last minute, it fits perfectly, and frankly I really don't think it was a last minute decision, I think he came up with the sage of six paths creating the moon during the Pain arc.

>>281089742
MIGHT FUCKING GUY DOESN'T BURN OUT UNLESS OPENING ALL THE GATES

>>281105276
He burns out opening anything above fourth gate, it just changes how long he burns out for.

>>281105330
Na that is plot convenience cause his to OP. In the springtime of his youth? he can go all day. His MIGHT fucking GUY.

>>281089583
Itachi literally sealed his ass with some premiere bullshit and he still came back, dude is like a cockroach.

>>281105654
Has Itachi ever succeeded at doing anything besides murdering the rest of the Uchiha who were a million times weaker than him in their sleep?

>>281105209
Maybe it would be worth reading again to see what actually is there, in hindsight. Regardless of how many tidbits might have been there, setting up a definitive antagonist and then very suddenly bringing in a bigger cosmic threat felt weird. I remember everyone at the time thought that it was a complete asspull, so either people forgot over the years if there were any hints, or vague hints were there and Kishimoto just didn't really do anything with them. Possibly because he simply had it all in is head, but didn't write much to the actual manga because there was no time for it or he planned poorly.
The issue is more with just what the story focuses in general. Ancient ninja lore and origin of chakra and all of that is simply not important to the story or even the setting, until it suddenly is, and with post-Naruto stuff it's actually the most important thing

>>281085744
>>281084195
I want these cards

>>281105967
I actually realized the stuff I'm talking about while rewatching. I suggest you reread/rewatch the Pain arc specifically episode 167. Pain talks cryptically about the Sage of Six Paths and how he created the planetary destruction Jutsu.

It was not explicitly stated that the Sage of Six Paths was an alien, but the Sage of Six Paths as a mysterious figure that created Chakra was mentioned many times. The fact he created the planetary destruction Jutsu also does imply he has some relation to space or planets.

Anime fans are kinda dumb because they think foreshadowing means completely spelling shit out.

>>281095305
Naruto was a masterpiece until shitmoto couldnt write how to kill Madara and started this >DUDE aliens

>>281105903
Dying
Brainwashing Kabuto

>>281084553
Kurotsuchi Mayuri from Bleach comes close since he's cartoonishly evil on his introduction but later on he's presented as a necessary evil and his abuse of his artificial daughter does get some kind of resolution (she dies protecting him and her clone is raised with more kindness than the old one)

>>281106235
Okay I actually just checked, Pain specifically states "This is the technique the Sage of the Six Paths used to create the moon"

Otsutsuki weren't just foreshadowed they were literally explicitly mentioned and explained in episode 167 of shippuden.

>>281106330
Best character in Bleach, by far

>>281082792
Wasnt 6000Kcal the limit of human income per day without severe digestive issues?
>>281094224
>Why do sexually abused children always get fat later in their lives even though they used to look pretty before?
Story short is their calorie burning and growing functions stop working correctly
Once their brain gets rewired are degenerated theres no going back. The psychologist/psychiatrist will make this worse since they drug them in order to "make them forget the trauma" themselves made. Legally the kids must acknowledge the trauma and this part is where they get fucked up the most. Even if they didnt get traumatized before it will happen and worsen their situation

>>281106328
>Dying
He got Edo Tensei-ed
>Brainwashing Kabuto
For now

>>281106709
>Wasnt 6000Kcal the limit of human income per day without severe digestive issues?
There's no such thing. It depends on what form the calorie is in. You could eat 10,000 calories in a day, you probably won't be happy about it just because of how much that is to go into your gut all at once, but if it's straight sugar your body will process the vast bulk of it because fructose is easily processed into glucose with little time or difficulty. But if you ate 10,000 calories of dense protein then about 3000 of it will be wasted because it takes so much effort to metabolize that the body's not done by the time it's on its way out.

>>281106730
>For now
If only.
Kabuto is not even a character anymore. He's not going to turn evil if he doesn't exist. Also he's a wholesome momma's boy at heart. Itachi just factory reset him.

What was Kabuto's deal anyway?

>>281094224
They are scared of sexual attraction so they become so fat that 99% of the population stops wanting to fuck them.

>>281094224
more cushion for the pushing

>>281107713
>amnesiac orphan
>adopted by a nice lady
>life's good
>suddenly some shitbags appear, threaten his new family
>he decides to work for the shitbags to save his family
>it's tough but it's all worth it right? Even if he has to do awful things and never gets to see his family
>his "mother" suddenly appears, tries to kill him and doesn't even recognize him
>some giga degenerate appears, explains that the shitbag bosses betrayed both Kabuto and his dead mom, promises to protect Kabuto and give him free shit if he works for him
>new dad acquired
>life's good?
>villain dad suddenly croaks
>Kabuto follows in his footsteps and becomes a big bad
>jobs to the same guy villain dad jobbed like 2 times before
>gets theraphy no jutsu'd
>he follows in the footsteps of the dead mother instead and becomes a nun

>>281088842
You degenerates have to stop acting like Boruto is worse than Naruto

>>281106330
Beat me to it. Mayuri is even worse because he's never defeated or killed or punished for what he does. Imagine if Danzo survuved and nobody gave him shit for anything he did. Mayuri should absolutely have been killed by one of the top Quincy during TYBW.

>>281091014
Just use Ino to control him and Sauce is dead meat

>>281074211 (OP)
Sarutobi and the feudal lords would never release Orochimaru's files, cause they all know they're on them.

>>281074211 (OP)
hiruzen would be proud of him. a true hero.

>>281084269
Kakashi >>> Darui

>>281091076
Apparently he can still use a susano even without eyes (it's retarded but it happened)

>>281107135
Apparently peak performance Michael Phelps ate around 12 thousand calories a day in his hardest period of training
He also swan something like 13 hours daily at Olympian level intensity so It makes sense

My favourite part is in the Sasuke retrieval arc when it seems like he's just kidnapped hundreds of innocent people as slaves locked up in some underground dungeon and then he makes them fight to the death and takes the body of the winner. And he was a good friend.

>>281097754
Didn't Itachi trap him in an infinite mindrape loop that would only stop when he admitted he was wrong?

>>281112104
Not just when he admitted he was wrong, but when he was 100% completely and irrevocably BRAINWASHED into giving up his evil ambitions AND wanting to do nothing else but protect Konoha for the rest of his life

Itachi completely fucked him up permanently, straight up rewrote his personality, and it's permanent

>I forgive you no jutsu
>we can know be friends deapite you killed all of my loving ones
This is the only series when it actually made sense. Even more with Nagato reviving the people he killed

>>281074211 (OP)
I mean he has to have an autist trail him for the rest of his life so maybe the real punishment was the friends we made along the way. Also NEJI?!

>>281097037
Because Rasa was a special snowflake that needed to show everyone how unique he was due to his fuck bitches get money no jutsu.

>>281112536
If my nuts produced Temari, Kankuro, and Gaara, I'd be feeling pretty fucking special, too.

>>281112627
man, Kankuro didn't even build his own puppet
just borrowed Sasori's leftovers

>>281112653
Good artists create, great artists steal

>>281112653
That was fucking lame, but, considering his whole theme is theater, it makes some sense for him to borrow his props instead of making them.

>they were gonna use Hinata as breeding stock to create a bunch of super giga-lightning-niggas with byakugan
unforgivable

>>281095305
Its the most fun to talk about though

>>281112939
i wonder how many fanfics there are about this

>>281079784
Just like the Mengala data niggas didn't use antibiotics. Oh and a bunch of rape

>>281095305
Naruto is easily better than both Juan Piss and Bleach and honestly DBZ is a trainwreck that just happened to set a bunch of trends because it was so early.

>>281097788
It absolutely was not. Kishi even admitted that he only came up with the whole Kaguya thing because he felt like he wrote himself into a hole with Madara, he just has enough sense to tie her existence in with the existing lore even though it was really poorly just hamfisted in.

>>281114421
>he felt like he wrote himself into a hole with Madara
I never really understood that. Yeah, LIMBO was a pretty busted ability, but he was already starting to write a way for Sasuke and Naruto to formulate a strategy against him using their individual abilities

>>281114490
>I wrote a villain who was too powerful for my protagonists to reasonably defeat so my solution is to create a villain who is even more powerful than the first one
Yeah I never understood it either.

>>281114421
Wasn't Kaguya forshadowed in part 1? Or was that something else.

>>281109261
He was humiliated by Uryuu and had to suffer losing Nemu, so I'd say he didn't get off completely clean. I do agree it's pretty annoying how he's such a karma houdini.

>>281114679
Definitely not, the Sage of Six Paths might be mentioned in passing but like >>281114421 said, it's got nothing to do with Kaguya or Otsutsukis until Kishimoto actually wote Hagoromo into the story, and I doubt Kishi even had figured out what to do with the Sage or who he even was the first time he's mentioned.

>>281114679
There's the literal Kaguya clan but I doubt the connection is anything but retroactive. Kishimoto is a wonky writer but I don't think even he would introduce something so major, then leave it be for about ten years, and then bring it back. Dude just went over his notes and earlier writing and figured out what would work.

>>281115219
As much as I hate Kaguya, the fact that he was able to pull her off at all is a testament to how great Kishimoto's world building is. There's so much to the Naruto universe that he's able to ass pull major villains and retroactively tie them into the story in a way that's at least semi-convincing.

>>281115903
He's creative to be sure, but a bad planner. At least on a tight weekly manga schedule, and fair enough, most mangaka fumble somewhat when doing that.
Genuinely too ambitious a story, but also it's in the spirit of long running manga like this that the writer needs to make shit up on the go, but also that there's simply not enough time to feature everything that could be

kys narutards

>>281097754
Uhh, no? He was originally a boy scout incarnate, Danzo and Oro fucked him up beyond recognition. He didn't even want to be a ninja, he was basically a pacifist unlike 99% of Nardo characters. He just wanted a quiet life by his adoptive mother's side. He enjoyed healing people and was selflessly helping run the orphanage, he secretly sacrificed himself to save other orphans.

Even after all the horrific shit he went through and becoming ninja Mengele's disciple his original personality still shines through now and then. Like he's obviously fond of kids and doesn't hurt them unless he absolutely has to, unlike certain others. e.g. during the battle with Tsunade he told Naruto he would kill him if he got in the way (Orochimaru actually wanted Naruto dead) but then handled him with kid gloves when Naruto attacked him (picrel), multiple times. He actually pulled out his ninja info cards at some point and started lecturing Naruto about the importance of tactical retreat, right after beating the everliving shit out of Shizune and Tsunade. The stuff he says to Naruto actually mirrors Tsunade worrying about her little brother, except Kabuto goes out of his way to look mean while he's knocking sense into Naruto. For obvious reasons.

Ever since Kabuto's introduction he was constantly acting like a long-suffering babysitter to a bunch of brats, and later on it becomes clear it wasn't an act, it's just his personality. Like at the beginning of part 2 when he's reprimanding Sasuke for talking back to Orochimaru. And he keeps helping and healing his enemies, for tactical reasons, allegedly. Shit's hilarious.

So no, he was actually born to become mother theresa, or a grade school teacher at the very least. Director of an orphanage is a perfectly suitable line of work for Kabuto, especially in the world where Oro gets to be a mommy.

>>281118471
well I'm just saying he seemed pretty malicious after he took over for Orochimaru

>>281114421
I already gave certifiable proof here. The Otsutsuki were explicitly mentioned and partially explained during the pain arc.
>>281106235
>>281106373

>>281088719
wtf is this real? Jobber ninjas had filler episodes that fleshed out their story or is this just a joke?

how was Kabuto able to become stronger than Orochimaru and become a Sage and shit all in like a week when Orochimaru is a great-grandpa who has spent his entire life trying to be the very best?

>>281088719
>was he secretly a badass
Didn't he lose the only fight we saw him in and get sliced to ribbons by a basic wind Ninjutsu?

>>281074211 (OP)
Just like billionaires in real life

>>281085198
why does Kishi hate Shino so much lol

>>281074211 (OP)
He was Sasuke's coolest guy

>>281119292
Oro IV and grief scrambled his brains.

>>281085744
>Shino grade C
kek

>>281074211 (OP)
He tossed Anko away once she aged out...